A look at the poor design faults on an Enviro 400 bus

[@AndreiTupolev]

And from the passengers point of view: the squeaks. Alexander's standards of putting things together really took a downturn from the ALX400. Not to mention how flimsy those touch sensitive buttons usually area; you want buttons that make a nice satisfying click so you know it's worked, not to mention the durability

[@NextSound170]

Cheap, they believe cheap is better, where the Citaros are built properly

[@BristolRE]

Exactly!

[@waifuracer6516]

The tridents might be screwed together well but oh boy they drive awful... The retarder on them is just straight out of hell. Slowing down to 10mph every single time its like the bus just got rear ended by a car, sending passengers flying and giving me a concussion. Then there is the fact that tridents and most older dennises run the airbags at 100% inflation which makes them crash over bumps. Meanwhile in scania land airbags are ran at 70%-80% and they actually ride over bumps plus have the added benefit of raising the suspension not just lowering so you can clear very high curbs and big dips in the road. I much rather listen to the rattling and squeaking of the E400s in exchange of inproved driveability, but even better: i wish bus companies werent so fucking cheap and actually bought good buses. How is it that poor eastern European countries have the budget to buy mercedes and scania, meanwhile the uk buys the cheapest shit possible as long as it looks good... Shocked that my depot even has scanias in a decent number and not just the shitty dennises... Even the new new 2016 dennis e400, it drives smooth and the suspension is good, but they are constantly broken, and they are sluggish even when fixed...

[@BristolRE]

@@waifuracer6516 Spot on!

[@adamholmes91]

@@waifuracer6516 Is this the same with the Volvo or daf running gear? Reason i ask, i want to make a double decker a motorhome and want something built good but also drives nice. As an ex bus driver myself never drove an alx400 but driven many e400's (with Cummins engines), i found they had neck breaking retarders too but were because of zf gearboxes. the voiths were very violent but more gradual instead of *SMASH* hello retarder!

[@MH-hy2ot]

My issue with driving these is that they're painfully slow, but I absolutely love them otherwise. They sound so satisfying

[@BristolRE]

Ours are weird, some are rockets, some are slow.

[@eurosimpliciti259]

What I love is the fact Arriva in Luton still use their 1999 ALX400s and they still work completely fine as if they were new, whereas Streetlites, Enviro400s (Euro 5/6 only), Wright Gemini 2s and sometimes Pulsars are either breaking down constantly or just absolutely gutless in terms of any good enough acceleration. ALX400s were designed very well and have stood the test of time, as well as Presidents and Geminis (even the DAFs with their plagues of problems were better!) It's a shame. Good video though!

[@BristolRE]

Thanks, and yes, in a lot of cases older buses were more robust and have less computerised stuff on them to go wrong.

[@TheFlatCapFromWN5]

I know the feeling with the throttle delay. Its so bad that when at a roundabout or a junction with the handbrake on, I'll be maintaining low revs on the throttle pedal and then disengage the handbrake to negate the delay. The only issue with this workaround (and I don't know if you get this with your E400s) is that sometimes, the bus will go into some weird sort of "anti-kickdown" mode where it will accelerate poorly and change gears at the lowest revs possible.

[@BristolRE]

Yes, same issue with ours. Most odd buses these are.

[@KeithJones-yq6of]

I have noticed that as a passenger. Quite often the driver will floor the throttle before releasing the handbrake, particularly at roundabouts or busy junctions

[@TheStumpyFingers]

I drive the hybrid environment, it has the same problem with the dashboard and heating system. Thornton heath has changed the seat height , it is now too low for taller drivers.

[@BristolRE]

😲😲 Never had these issues with Routemasters, Metros etc

[@SimonCap]

E400s are just pretty bad in general even as a passenger myself the seats are very uncomfortable, barely any leg room, it drives very unsmoothly and I don't know if it's just me being unlucky but they always break down or have issues

[@BristolRE]

Hard to imagine how something could have been designed so badly

[@608dave1]

Peter spot on video, as a Scotsman, I was so very proud of the "old" Alexander product,alas the modern day ADL product seems to have adopted the "poundland" spec, comparing to Wrightbus, yes the Eclipse & Eclipse Gemini were good, but & I speak from driving experience, the Streetlight & recent Gemini B5's & indeed Streetdeck are not in the same league as their predecesors, once again costs dictate the quality of the finished product. Which sort of begs the question in one of my shift buses earlier this week, a 2011, Citaro, everything worked, no spueaks or rattles, 11 years old, build quality to last, how did we end up here mate, roll on retirement

[@BristolRE]

I couldn't agree more

[@PinkUnicornXO]

This is from a passenger standpoint but whenever I go to Hong Kong, you can get on a less than a year old Enviro 500 and the rattling drives you nuts, it can be particularly jarring at idle as well - it beggars belief that the quality control is so poor. On your point about the Citaros, I used to get on them to commute to school and they were leagues better put together than the Volvo 7900 Hybrids that also served the route, despite the Citaros being 12 years old at the time vs 6 year old Volvos. The Volvos were diabolical for rattle and it was deeply unpleasant....never mind the seemingly dim-witted gearbox that seemed to take an eternity to get into gear!

[@BristolRE]

@@PinkUnicornXO 😮

[@FerencDobos-b2f]

Mate if you look closely there is two other buttons under the fan speed selector. "Red Arrow Up" increase the amount of heat blown onto the cab, "Blue Arrow Down" decrease the heat blown into the cab. Learn to use ther temperature setting, not blame the demister not working correctly.

[@BristolRE]

My point is, even on the lower settings it's still too powerful compared to the system used on our DWs. On those you can have it on a trickle and leave it there for the duration of your shift and never touch it, it will be whatever temperature you require. The system on the E400's is poorly designed, as indeed it is on our new Electroliner buses. The DWs have the best operations for heating on any bus I've ever driven

[@KeithJones-yq6of]

They are very prone to condensation too

[@court692able]

It’s all the same issues on the newer Enviro 400 MMCs. Although the cab interior is better than the original hybrids

[@court692able]

The heat vents are even worse on the MMCs, why is one vent hidden behind the dash board who would’ve thought that was a smart idea

[@BristolRE]

They never listen or ask for drivers feedback

[@Iced-Rockin-Man]

I drive the hybrid E400s on the 56s at Stagecoach and a design flaw I'm not happy with is the large windscreen surround's proximity to the side window frame. When approaching a roundabout, you have to physically move yourself in the cab to be able to see any oncoming traffic. Always thought this to be very dangerous.

[@BristolRE]

Yes, very true

[@mattcrooke8321]

Totally agree with everything you’ve said there! A couple of other thing that spring to mine. The style of buttons are terrible too. I know this was a very popular complaint, and as such they’ve changed back to proper switch gear on the newer models. The fact there there isn’t a proper red bell light on the dash! Just the silly green symbol on the dash screen, which I believe vanishes after a certain amount of time. It’s such a shame that buses as good as Darts and Tridents, are replaced with this rubbish.

[@BristolRE]

Yes indeed, and apologies for the very late reply!

[@jjmmjj9999]

not to mention in the sun (like we've had) that tiny little shitty green bell outline of an icon is so hard to see in the glare, even worse on the MMCs i find looking to the left at the sign is better sometimes. As for disappearing, sometimes it doesn't even show! the sign will be lit, but no bell icon on the dash lol

[@TheUnknown313]

Yeah the older E400’s are genuinely better by miles (Euro 4 T’s/TE’s) and feels like you can actually move.

[@BristolRE]

Indeed!

[@ahuman9143]

Enviros are just all round bad buses even from a passenger perspective. My local routes used to have Scanias until they were replaced by Enviro 400s which are rattling themselves to bits and struggle at any form of hill which the Scanias whilst loud they handle the routes with ease and were more comfortable

[@BristolRE]

Yes, exactly

[@transportenthusiast11]

Have you ever driven a Streetlite? If so, what are they like?

[@BristolRE]

No, I haven't. And no driver ever has anything good to say about them, so guess they must be awful.

[@eaglehousewasteservices1709]

There are also E400 Tridents at Dartford bus garage

[@alextoft9199]

On the MMC the suspension is awful for passangers. stop / start system very poor. Only seems to work on handbrake. It only seems to cut the engine for about two seconds before starter kicks in and shakes the whole bus. Surely that can't be efficient or good for the engine? They are new to Stagecoach in my area but they feel like very old technology and built very poorly. One engine squealed like a twenty year old Corsa on start-up the other day. This is a vehicle that's less than three months old!

[@BristolRE]

I find stop / start very weird and agree, it cannot be any good for the components

[@LondonTransport3]

Yes the MMCs have the buttons the same way, Another annoying thing with the Hybrid MMCs is you got to put your foot down on brake to release them to allow to pull off which doesn't work mostly first time

[@BristolRE]

Madness

[@gravemind6536]

The MMCs you're guranteed to lose time pulling away from a bus stop. As they age and the doors don't fully shut as quick it becomes a nightmare leaving the stop. The cab layout is an improvement over the previous one but its not the best. They also strangle the life out of the engine at city speeds making them useless at pulling away at a roundabout.

[@davidcooper4280]

Some very good points having driven one over the weekend

[@BristolRE]

Definitely room for improvement!

[@arumney5906]

spot on, also the amount of times i pressed the isolator button instead of the hazards!

[@BristolRE]

Lol

[@HampsteadOwl]

The reflection in the dashboard panel plays havoc with your carefully-protected anonymity I am afraid Peter.

[@BristolRE]

Lol, not really protected, there are a couple of non-bus videos on here where my face is shown

[@TheTransportHub17]

Great video Peter. Shame the Ts have many issues as they’re generally faster than the DWs. The older Enviros anyway.

[@BristolRE]

Thanks, and yes indeed.

[@AJSAN1971]

I don't like the low ceiling on the E400 or the low depth to the side window. I sit fairly high up and find myself having to duck slightly to see to the right. The Wright cab is light and airy, feels much more spacious and is far better laid out in general.

[@BristolRE]

Being short, I don't have that problem, lol

[@mattcrooke8321]

Those ‘dual view’ mirrors are the single most horrendous thing I have ever used in 20 years of bus driving. The level of disorientation is off the scale. We recently took delivery of 10 ex London vehicles with these fitted. I took one out in service, and almost killed a cyclist when overtaking them. I cannot believe they’re legal! Thankfully they’ve all been removed now.

[@BristolRE]

They certainly take a bit of getting used to! I'm happy with them on the nearside, but find them dangerous on the offside

[@mattcrooke8321]

@@BristolRE I just can’t see the point of them. Someone who has clearly never driven a large vehicle, thought it was a good idea to give the driver two different perspectives in the same quick glance 😂. The engineering manager asked me what I thought of the bus after I’d taken it out for it’s test run. I was quite vocal about those mirrors lol

[@BristolRE]

@@mattcrooke8321 Indeed! No point or benefit in them whatsoever

[@mattcrooke8321]

@@BristolRE well said that man!

[@MzQueenMcD]

Is it possible to ask for another bus if you’re assigned to one that you dislike or no?

[@BristolRE]

During the evening yes you can, but it's difficult on a route like the 121 as you change drivers mid journey, though I do swap them over sometimes. You need a decent meal break as well as it takes 20+ minutes to sort it all out.

[@jjmmjj9999]

in service, you can call your ibus controller and ask. They'll ask why so must be a decent enough reason Easier on a sunday or late in the evening when there's more buses in the garage majority of the time it'll be waiting at the stand for when you arrive, then you change over and depart as normal on the new bus and leave whoever brought the new bus to take the old one back

[@mglbbl9039]

Throttle delay in the E400s at my depot are absolutely shocking. Some worse than others but it makes for a very unpredictable drive and highly irritating when needing to pull away quicker than usual. Can cancel out the delay by giving it some revs with parking brake applied before setting off, but still shouldn't have to be doing that.

[@BristolRE]

Yes, and dangerous as well, as other road users may interpret your delay in allowing them to go

[@TrainBoy-tf9gh]

Nice video Peter, what a shame these ADL Enviro 400's are uncomfortable for drivers but only comfortable for passengers. I think most drivers at Enfield garages hopes that these poor buses get transferred to another garage in or out of London because they just can't stand it anymore. I don't mind the Wright Pulsar ones as long as they don't go slow on a uphill 😂

[@BristolRE]

Thanks, and fortunately these buses are getting old by London standards to should be moving on within the next couple of years

[@TrainBoy-tf9gh]

@@BristolRE Yeah, that's true. But it does go faster than the Wright Pulsar buses.

[@thebananacraft7298]

I have enviro 200 buses with only one door and it still has two door buttons and I’m always hitting the wrong one. But I don’t mind the flowing dash as it can be put in a nice place to drive but it could be better because it’s annoying having the buttons moving as well.

[@BristolRE]

Two buttons on a single door bus? Madness!

[@thebananacraft7298]

@@BristolRE well they did have two doors but they took the second door out. Most of a deckers still have the ramp brackets from when it had two doors as they are ex London buses

[@BristolRE]

@@thebananacraft7298 Ah, fair enough. You'd think they'd cover over the button not needed though.

[@thebananacraft7298]

@@BristolRE yeah you would think that but they don’t, they do still show up on the screen though with a middle door which is funny, have you ever had the problem with the screen on the dash not working because I have on them a few times

[@BristolRE]

@@thebananacraft7298 No, not on the dash, sometimes it's a bit distorted by colour streaks but usually OK

[@nathanw9770]

An annoying thing from the passengers POV are the fans being super loud when turned on and then the bus gets either too hot or too cold really quickly lmao. Not sure if you've had this problem at Enfield but it was pretty bad with the Dartford T's.

[@LJ07EBP]

ADL has been doing this fucking annoying automatic A/C that just stays on hot temperature forever most of the time since 2006 I dont get whats the point of it cus sometimes u dont feel anything from it and it just makes racket that stops u from hearing the engine

[@jjmmjj9999]

@@LJ07EBP great fun when you get a bus that kicks out hot air and it FORCES the blowers on for you at 22c ambient or thereabouts called controller for another bus and refused to drive it

[@TheArkamedBat]

And that is why I prefer Streetlites or Streetdecks.

[@BristolRE]

😮😮 You're probably the first person I've heard of to say they actually like a Streetlite! Almost all drivers hate them.

[@o_blivian]

but nice engine sounds with the whirls (i love em)

[@BristolRE]

Better engine sounds in the 60s 70s 80s, lol

[@unknownywuux_bus]

How you got the latest iPhone 📱 🤔

[@damonwilliams5033]

Let's raid the transport museums and get the AEC Regents Leyland PDs and Daimler's back on the roads again.

[@BristolRE]

Or better still, Lodekka's, VR's and RE's 😁😁

[@damonwilliams5033]

@@BristolRE In fact,all front engined buses would be a better alternative to today's boxes - on - wheels.(Complete with conductor/clippie of course).

[@BristolRE]

Indeed @@damonwilliams5033

[@adrianatkins5660]

Have you driven an HV? as a passenger i have never hated a bus so much constantly shaking when at the stop when the engine should of shut down, and the old seating layout at the back, a bad design

[@BristolRE]

No, I've never driven an HV

[@ace-paidinfull5240]

Our version of this T bus is Ade or Adh for the hybrid version. Im not a big fan of Alexander dennis, much prefer volvos. At your garage you dont have any gemini 3s you only have gemini 2 (dw). You would have HVs for the N279 but it obviously goes from E garage. What do you prefer?

[@BristolRE]

I don't like 'T' buses, prefer a DW even though they are quite slow. We are getting Wright Electroliners for the 307 and next year for 279

[@ace-paidinfull5240]

@@BristolRE ahh nice, i live in bruce grove so will be a great look to see one of those on the 279. But saying that, the electroliner is like a streetdeck, so they are not the chasis as what the current HVs use - just my preference. Would live to test drive one tho.

[@BristolRE]

@@ace-paidinfull5240 Yes indeed, they do seem nice to drive when I did my type training

[@ace-paidinfull5240]

@@BristolRE oh you did type training on a hv even though your garage has none?

[@BristolRE]

@@ace-paidinfull5240 No, I meant I type trained on the new ES for the 307

[@SquirrelKnight50]

Gotta love British engineering.

[@BristolRE]

Indeed, lol

[@EastLondonAmbassador]

Please can you do a video about the Enviro 400 MMC plz

[@BristolRE]

Unfortunately I cannot as we do not have any where I work so I do not have access to them

[@EastLondonAmbassador]

@@BristolRE The ones on 377 ???

[@BristolRE]

@@EastLondonAmbassador They're Enviro 200 MMC, but think I've already done one somewhere?

[@BristolRE]

@@EastLondonAmbassador Here's one of the MMC's that were new for the 192 kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2TPlYZmict1Z9k

[@COBO2]

Do a video comparing them with the DW's.

[@BristolRE]

Good idea

[@Tristan-benge]

When will be driving that routemaster

[@BristolRE]

Not really fussed about those, so not bothered to do the type training

[@jaydencuss8334]

have seen route 432 hybrid

[@totenham670]

have you driven the EvoSeti? is it good drive?

[@BristolRE]

No, we don't have those where I work so not driven one

[@FirstSmit]

The MMCs aren't much better from what I've heard, Atleast outside London, Inside London could be different but with ADL I doubt it.

[@BristolRE]

😢

[@adamcrane3571]

Hello @@BristolRE

[@BristolRE]

@@adamcrane3571 Hello

[@adamcrane3571]

Hello @@BristolRE What is your favourite bus to drive

[@BristolRE]

@@adamcrane3571 From the past? Bristol VR or Bristol RE. From the more recent era Scania L94 or L113.

[@mahammad]

One of the main reason I hate those enviro 329 buses are because of their stiff seats, there is legitimately no cushion of any sort between the plastic and the fabric, you’re essentially sitting on plastic 😂

[@ArchiezVidz]

what bus is a dw?

[@BristolRE]

DAF

[@ArchiezVidz]

@@BristolRE ok

[@RWL2012]

yeah a DAF (D)/VDL, with a Wright body (W).

[@Antthecool1]

Ones we have in Bath are horrible to drive, very slow, the brakes also horrible vs a B9TL - not progressive at all, nothing nothing EVERYTHING. Also the fact to lower them, you have to have to close doors to be able to lower the bus. E400MMC are tbf a lot lot better and actually quite pleasant to drive

[@BristolRE]

I've not yet had the pleasure of the E400MMC, however our own E200MMCs are nasty (apart from the earlier ones). Single door, hand brake must be on to open the doors, then before you can pull away you must press the foot brake to release the door interlock. Brakes on the are dire, again, the earlier batch are fine.

[@mlctv6547]

They'll probably be gone next year anyways when the 279 contract ends

[@BristolRE]

Hopefully, though TfL have not got any money, so wouldn't surprise me if new contract is for existing buses for the first 2-3 years then an upgrade

[@Abdul.M.]

It might get LTs if contracted. Ending next year or maybe Go Ahead London or Metroline London bid for Route.

[@TawheedRahmanBengali]

Nice video keep it up

[@BristolRE]

Thanks

[@TawheedRahmanBengali]

@@BristolRE you are welcome

[@jj318]

What video editor do you use?

[@BristolRE]

Wondershare Filmora (on a Windows PC)

[@fin720s]

The new byd ev enviro busses are unreliable as hell

[@BristolRE]

That doesn't surprise me

[@walthamwalker]

Aka The c- bus The problem is they are built for left hand drive - Europe lol

[@BristolRE]

That wouldn't surprise me, lol

[@transporter4060]

WHV - the only bus type that is pleasure to drive (Volvo, no surprise). Rest buses is just crap.

[@BristolRE]

Lol

[@carabara3947]

Bloody Shame In This Country Yet Again Not Fit For Durabality Anyone Running ADL Will Have Back Up Vans In Their Depot All The Time

[@shaunflynn4601]

You've got more wine than Majestic's me 'Ole China. I surprised you never complained about it not keeping you chips warm...🤔

[@BristolRE]

Forgot about that! Need somewhere in the cab to rest my bag of crisps, which you can do in a DW! Lol.

[@Bobbyandmog]

@@BristolRE what's your favourite crisps,Mines Walkers,Doritos and Wotsits

[@BristolRE]

@@Bobbyandmog Walkers, Tomato Ketchup flavour, even though I hate ketchup sauce!

[@Bobbyandmog]

@@BristolRE I like the cheese and onion,Salted,Salt and vinegar,Prawn Cocktail And Chicken flavours.

[@BristolRE]

@@Bobbyandmog Chicken were my favourite until about 20 years ago when the changed the recipe now they are no where near as goof. Those other flavours you mention are good though

[@LJ07EBP]

Rip

[@SuperScania1974]

MMCs are crap too....

[@BristolRE]

Lol

[@mitchellhurd9300]

Interesting, yet Alexander Dennis made this huge song and dance about the Enviro400 😅😅😅!

[@BristolRE]

One day, designers of buses will talk to bus drivers and find out what is 'wrong' with current designs first

[@Radar139]

I know how to start the bus hehe

[@southlondoner7169]

Arriva have won back the 307!

[@BristolRE]

Yes, good news indeed!

[@southlondoner7169]

@@BristolRE they won’t even need to reblind the Ts 😂

[@BristolRE]

@@southlondoner7169 ssshhh, don't tell them! That means the T buses will be on there until the electric ones arrive!

[@KeithJones-yq6of]

At the end of the day, the Leyland Atlantean would still beat them all

[@TheBestChocolate]

ok

[@londonbuses72shorts53]

2 views

[@BristolRE]

20 now, lol

[@Dn6xx7d1]

Lol I watch when it had 2 views

[@BristolRE]

@@Dn6xx7d1 Lol

[@londonbuses72shorts53]

@@BristolRE hahahahha

[@londonbuses72shorts53]

Rip