British Commonwealth Training Rifles: Sub-Calibre, not Sub-Standard

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Training large numbers of raw recruits in basic weapons handling and marksmanship presents a number of significant challenges, including the noise, recoil, and cost of full-power military ammunition. This is why most armies use smaller, cheaper cartridges like .22 rimfire for basic training. From the 1880s to the present, the armed forces of the British Commonwealth have used a variety of sub-calibre training systems, from temporary conversion kits to converted service rifles to purpose-built training rifles. In this video, we examine 5 such systems:
-Ross 1912 Cadet Rifle
-Rifle No.2 MkIV with Aim Corrector
-Boys Anti-Tank Rifle ".55 cum .22" conveyor
-Cooey Model 82 Cadet Rifle
-Rifle C No.7
SOURCES:
www.rifleman.org.uk/Ross_cade...
www.rifleman.org.uk/Enfield_R...
www.rifleman.org.uk/A.G._and_...
www.rifleman.org.uk/Enfield_R...
www.rifleman.org.uk/Enfield_R...
www.rifleman.org.uk/Enfield_R...
www.rifleman.org.uk/Enfield_R...
calibremag.ca/cooey-canadas-g...

[@timharig]

There's no way that is really Ian. If Ian was impersonating a German soldier he would definitely be wearing a genuine stahlhelm.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

Pickelhaube more likely.

[@Reciclador]

I hope we see a collaboration with Ian from Forgotten Weapons at some point, lol. Cheers from Spain.

[@michaelbevan3285]

Hi there. I fired, as an Irish reservist, a converted Lee-Enfield, converted to .22 inch, which was called a Morris Tube Conversion. The rifles were old SMLEs.

[@gonzo_the_great1675]

When firearms licencing was first introduced in the UK, a special exemption was made for 'miniature rifle clubs', from this 1904 decision. This exempt such clubs from the restrictions of licencing. This was only changed very recently (September 2023). So existed for 120 years.

[@erg0centric]

Thanks for another great video. Also difficult to find but notable, Canada purchased 22LR BSA Martini rifles for cadet shooting programs in 1925.

[@skankybuesgod]

Still in use at army barracks in the uk for cadet training in the 1960's 🙂

[@kazkazimierz1742]

When I was an Officer Cadet at the McGill university squadron in the early 60's we had No. 4s chambered in .22 stored at the McGill shooting range. These were taken away from us after some FLQ lads raided a Montreal armoury and took a bunch of FNs. So far as I know the FNs were never recovered.

[@ek8710]

In the early 2000's at college we had the same, which everyone used to learn target shooting

[@W1ldTangent]

Fired this as a cadet. They were very, very old rifles, but kept in excellent condition and functioned as well as they did when new.

[@coffeecodecameras]

Love the "A Bridge Too Far" reference!

[@charliepearce8767]

Queensland Australia 1974 I would use a 303 full sized rifle, but with a 22 bore at our school army cadets shooting range. They were super accurate and taught me well in marksmanship and respected for firearms. All this has stopped now, deemed by do-gooders it was training young men to become psychological killers.

[@birdlawyer6191]

How does Austrailia train troops without a shooting range? Do you guys just hope to never be in combat? Thousands of men firing a rifle for most likely the first time in their entire lives is not something I would want to be anywhere near.

[@RILEYLEIFSON_UTAH]

@@birdlawyer6191 I can't fathom a place where thousands of "men" who had never once shot a rifle, would even be a possibility.😳 God Bless America.🇺🇸💪🏻🗽🦅⚔

[@Piloulegrand]

@@birdlawyer6191 The Australian Army trains markmanship like any other army. It's the kind of school/young people shooting programm they stopped, not firearms training for the army lmao

[@kingcosworth2643]

@@birdlawyer6191 The military has plenty of ranges, I went through boot camp at Kapooka and we shot the Austyer's and Minimi LSW's. The poster was talking about civilian life. After '96 guns became the most evil blight to society and this emotion still remains strong in everyday society. The concept of a child going to the shooting range is tantamount to evil parenting to the average normy Australian. I was lucky, like the poster I grew up before the '96 and the range would be full of kids on a weekend, all shooting .22's, it was awesome for a kid.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

@@birdlawyer6191 STUDENTS are not "TROOPS". A school based cadet program is not necessary to have a well trained army.

[@mtm101designs9]

When I was cadet in Perth. Ontario in the mid 60's I think that we used Coey Model 82's in the range on the upper floor of the high school (P&DCI) When my father shot on thensmae range in then late 20's they used some sort of falling Bloch 22 which he greatly admired.

[@davidlowry8765]

Fired a longbranch .22 cal lee enfield in the Canadian Primary Reserve in 70s no magazine

[@51WCDodge]

Good morning,again. I have just found your channel. I have a SMLE .22, with a Lee Metford bolt. I've wondered about for years, Dated I belive to about 1907. It has magazine. I now have more information to worry about! Also a lot of Victorian eras Martini action ended up as .22 rifles, and are still in use in places! Also have a 1941 Mossberg MB42a, which was speciffically built for British army training in WW2. And! I live at Orpington, Kent, in England. Our local hospital , is currently known as 'The Maple leaf Wing'. The history of the hospital is, in 1915, the goverment of Ontario set aside C$2 million, as arelif fund. the rseult was the purchase of land and the building of the Orpington hospital. It then became the No 16 canadian General hospital. One of the directors was Thomas McRae, his brother John, wrote 'In Flander's Feilds'. Thomas was a plastic surgeon, about 3 miles down the road St Mary's Hospital Sidcup, which also was a military hospital at the time, became world famous for plastic surgery. There are also Canadian graves in both our local CWWG cemetries Orpington, and St Mary Cray. Finally, the area includes Crayford and Dartford. at that time, Vicker's had a lot of manufacturing in the area everything from aircraft to Vickers Maxim, and thier own machine guns. The last odd fact. The last civilllian victim of the WW2 Blitz, Mrs Ivy Millichamp, aged 34, on 27th March 1945. she was killed by a V2 at Kynaston Road Orpington kent. About a mile from where I live.

[@chriswerb7482]

I loved this video and your channel very much. A couple of tiny corrections though. The organisation was the Society of Miniature Rifle Clubs which subsequently became the National Smallbore Rifle Association. The Boys ATR was a platoon level weapon, not section (UK term for squad) level. Thank you very much for your great work.

[@Zbigniew_Nowak]

24:30 Cocking the firing pin regardless of the action of the bolt also has another great advantage apart from safety: you can load a training cartridge (not firing), or just an empty case, cock the firing pin and press the trigger, then cock the firing pin and press the trigger again - without moving the bolt and throwing the training cartridge out.

[@1stmotors1]

You forgot to mention the British Swift Training Rifle and the Canadian 1943 & 1944 Longbranch Training Rifle, each mounted in a stand with needle blocks projecting and retracting from the muzzle, marking a paper target in the stand mounted about an inch in front of the muzzle, both rifle non guns for initial aiming training

[@martkbanjoboy8853]

In a CF reg army unit in the 1980's it was ironic in that it was a rare circumstance when we got trigger time with any subcaliber device for any weapon in our unit. It seems that even in the Cold War days $ for our training budget was tight. I only saw training grenades with training fuzes once. Makes you wonder where all that issued .22lr ammunition was going. We did have a biathlon team and I think they went through a lot of 22lr. Once we had a turkey shoot before xmas. The arms for that match were Colt Detective Specials in .22lr with 6 inch barrels. I do not recall if they had fixed or adjustable sights. In the 1970's RCN, the armory of one ship included Colt Officer's model .38 Spl. with heavy barrels and fully adjustable sights. Not sure if they were for competition or boarding party use. I suppose you mentioned the Urban combat simulator for use with the C1A1 .22 lr conversion kit. It had a large steel frame about as wide as a .22 indoor range. There was a motorized paper spool, electromechanical stop mechanism, and it was set up to use with a reel to reel projector. Interestingly the film was British actors posing as IRA combattants attacking you in a town. This was a British system that Canada adopted. I never saw anything similar to that ever since. I never got to experience a run through with it, but my friend did and he liked it. This would be a good device to make a presentation about.

[@Zbigniew_Nowak]

I saw another interesting training rifle these days. It was a typical AK-47, but with a laser pointer and a shock sensor mounted on it. When a person pressed the trigger and the firing pin moved, it caused a small shock, then the laser flashed and the computer recorded exactly where on the target the laser hit. It sounds complicated, but it was quite a simple device and even children could play with it.

[@15sherpinski]

We use something similar in the US Army. It's called EST and any shoulder fired weapon can be refitted to use it. It uses a similar shock sensor to "fire" a laser but also uses air pressure to cycle the bolt and simulate recoil. It is also paired with a set of 3d screens that can be used to simulate targets at various ranges or even simulated combat scenarios

[@Zbigniew_Nowak]

@@15sherpinski Such more sophisticated versions - with recoil and reloading - are also used in Poland, but of course they require a bit more equipment, while this "simple" version was brought by the army for a Christmas festival XD

[@mikedrop4421]

Lol you are a gun Jesus fan too! Man he needs to email you back! We need to bug him about it

[@cmdredstrakerofshado1159]

LoL I love that scene on a Bridge to far it was the British version of US General MacAculiff's Nuts! 🤣

[@endermenkilla]

dude, great video. had me glued to my screen :] love learning, especially from knowledgeable people!! ive got a no1 mk3*

[@billyhouse1943]

Thank you…

[@spizmon]

I learned to shoot army training rifle that looked like 98 Mauser. When “bolt” was unlocked back motion compressed stiff spring and when cycled it fired Bb. There was a small hopper for number of them. This was in 1960’s. Don’t remember who made it but I lived it Brno so it was probably local made.

[@capthal-rs9mq]

You did not mention the Mossberg 42M supplied by the Americans lenlease program. Supplied between 1940 and 1943.

[@ayoder7246]

Hey there! Just wanted to butt in and say: your channel is super interesting and full of excellent content. I highly recommend dipping your toes into shorts content. You don’t have to do much work seeing as you have an abundance of content sitting around waiting to be sliced into bite sized chunks. I know your channel is mostly long form content and it seems counterintuitive to cut it up. But give it a whirl, you’d be shocked at the size of an audience you can reach with it as a tool. It entices them in for the real content.

[@CanadianMacGyver]

Thanks for the advice! I've been actively avoiding short-form content because I want to give my viewers maximum "bang for their buck" with each video. What do you recommend I use for shorts? Small sections of larger videos, or subjects that don't take long to cover (of the kind I typically bundle into "Grab Bag" videos)?

[@HanstheTraffer]

I like your tie.

[@Zbigniew_Nowak]

In a manual for Polish soldiers in Great Britain, I read about the option of using a training rilfes "for silent sniper shooting at short distances" - in war. But I don't know exactly what training rifles they had in mind. However, the 22LR seems too weak to me.

[@vincentmueller3717]

In the 1950's, the Swiss nco association put out a manual on civilian resistance/ guerrilla warfare, l believe titled "Total War!". In it, they advocated air rifles for taking out sentries and drivers. They were talking about a .177 cal.pellet at maybe 600 fps. I'll take a .22lr hollow point any day. Under 50 yards, of course.

[@Zbigniew_Nowak]

@@vincentmueller3717 Well, in desperation you can try various inventions, especially a metal dart fired from an air gun into a person's neck can be deadly, but you would have to get close enough first. If you have a friend with a rifle next to you and he will save you if you miss - OK, shoot the air gun and try to eliminate the guard silently. If you only have an air rifle - well, I'd rather not be in that situation.

[@tomhenry897]

Not sure about the the 50s but modern European air rifles are equal to a 22 at short range

[@stevebailey325]

22:28 I was a private in the USMC and I can easily see this as a punishment job. Lol

[@davefellhoelter1343]

Never knew of this mirrored AIM Corrector! VERY COOL and I can see other uses very easy! I See and Smell Daisy BB guns in those Cooey sights, any relation? Thanks! to the FRIEND! good Job!

[@arjovenzia]

Your not kidding about that catalogue copy, worth going back and reading it if you haven't. obviously proud of their product. I also like the acknowledgement that giving a boy a rifle is inherently risky, but if you do, make sure its not just GI proof, but Enthusiastic Lad proof to. if that's not faith in your product I don't know what is.. I know alot of people these days would balk at giving a kid a gun and a box of ammo and say 'have fun', but I was stalking rabbits and pigeons by myself at about 12yo. but I'd already been shooting with Dad for years, and had the required respect for the weapon.

[@sydneycardew1923]

This was a fascinating vid. When I was in the CCF in the 00's we trained on a combination of No.8's and L98 A1s, an absurdly un-ergonomic version of the SA-80 with a manual charging handle. That feature of the No.7 where the spent brass drops into the magazine looks neat; did it lead to any extra jamming at all?

[@vincentmueller3717]

I have a question about the standard Boys rifle. If the ammunition comes on clips/chargers, coul they be stripped directly into the magazine, or was there a separate guide, or did the soldier have to remove the individual round and thumb them in the mag. I've never seen this issue addressed before, and have never herd of ammo issued other than in clips and bandoleers.

[@kingcosworth2643]

I imagine recoil and noise was not even remotely part of the scope of this firearm modification, cost and not wasting ammo that was critically needed at the front would be the core objective.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

But it also means you'll have to train the soldiers twice as they are in no way prepared to the full caliber guns after learning on the peashooters.

[@jp-um2fr]

Bl**dy ell. I got my silver spoon on this rifle. That’s around 56 years ago. I used No17 as it was supposed to have a bent barrel, it didn't after a session in our toolroom checking it. It did mean that no other pratt would mess around with the sights, though. I did the 10 shot target and got 10 bulls at 25 yards the week they changed the official target, so I had to do it again. No 17 and I were lovers. The MOD establishment I was at is gone now, I wonder what happened to my girlfriend. Incidently, if you saw what a 22 can do to some pennies stacked up, you REALLY would not want to be on the wrong end.

[@MrStrangegoo]

The ross was too finley machined for battlefield use.