Brompton 3 to 6 speed upgrade - is it possible?

One of the questions we often get asked is ....
"I have a Brompton 3 speed - is it possible to upgrade it to 6 speed?"
The answer is, yes - but maybe not as easily as you may think
The 3 speed Brompton folding bike uses a 3 speed only wheel, the 6 speed Brompton uses a 3 speed hub combined with a 2 speed derailleur - giving 6 gears, and the sprockets / wheels are different
In this video we explain why - and a possible half way solution
We also show a bit of history relating to the different Brompton wheels
If you are looking for information on how to install the sprockets onto a wheel - see below:
Brompton BSR / 3 speed rear wheel sprocket installation
• Brompton 3-speed sproc...
Brompton BWR / 6 speed rear wheel sprocket installation
• Brompton BWR 6 speed s...

[@Rob-cv3vh]

The best Brompton instructional channel on KZbin!

[@brilliantbikes]

Thank you - you are too kind

[@jamiewilden389]

Yet anther fantastic video keep them coming please .

[@madrian_hello]

Please do a complete 3 to 6 speed conversion video. Maybe a more complex hub maintenance video would be good too.

[@kennethlinton4432]

Come on Brilliant! 3-speed to 6-speed is totally possible and DOABLE. I know because I have just done it to my own 2006 M3L - which is now most definitely a M6L! You even list the old kit on your site. I bought all the parts, except new tyres and tubes, from eBay including an as-new BWR wheel. 6-speed definitely makes my Brompton much more usable in York. Now it is time to Cytronex it.

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching! Sorry perhaps we were not clear enough, we know it’s totally doable, we sell all the parts to change, it’s just not a straightforward case of changing the sprockets! But yes a great upgrade!

[@shaunanthonybrown8927]

How would you go up updating this way? And could you do it on an A Line?

[@eegaugh]

Thanks for the history; my five speed Sprinter hub is supplemented by a double chain ring giving ten nicely-spaced gears.

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching he comment (and watching) That sounds interesting Do you have a derailleur or change manually?

[@mikeblanchard7738]

Yet another excellent instructional video from the brilliant people at BrilliantBikes. I can thoroughly recommend this two-step 3 to 6 speed conversion having recently done it myself and it makes my Brompton far more useable on the hills. It also gave me the opportunity to try different sprockets on the rear wheel which was a very useful and interesting thing to do.

[@kennethlinton4432]

Same here. 16/13T on 50T. Works as advertised. 2005 M3L is now M6L. Cytronex next.

[@stidwellrichard]

I learned a lot from this video. I bought a blue second hand Brompton back in October to renovate which had a 5 Speed hub. I did not know they did 5 speed Sprinters in the past, so prompty replace it with 3 speed thinking someone must have changed it. I guess I will change it back again after fixing the wheel :). On another Brompton, I thought I had a SRAM hub, but looking closely it does say SACHS on it. Thanks for the video!

[@brilliantbikes]

Many thanks for watching and the for the comment. Bit of history SRAM took over Sachs, then closed it a couple of years later giving up the hub gears. We have therefore only seen Sachs on the hubs as well.

[@juandelacruz4058]

I thought brompton speed is not upgradable, but thanks to your very informative videos.. I started getting to like brompton bikes now.

[@adrianlw2750]

Very helpful content😃 When buying a Brompton, it is not immediately obvious as to what can or cannot easily be upgraded later. This great video helps unravel the gearing mystery! Whilst the 6 speed adds initial cost and a bit more weight, complexity and maintenance requirement, I think it is a great option to go for if budget will allow. I have been very pleased with the versatility of the standard 6-speed on mine. All gears get used as I live in an area with full range of flat sections and steep hills - having 6 means there is a decent chance of getting good cadence for most situations. My favourite gears are #4 and #5 on fairly flat sections (comfortable 12 - 16 mph) - probably my only gripe is that to change up or down between these two does mean there is the “awkwardness” of having to use both shifters, but it is really only a minor issue. I have in mind to get a 44T chainring for when I know lowering my overall range will be needed (big hills and/or carrying more weight), but then I also know I would miss the 100” 6th gear where I enjoy the top speed of the standard 50T ring, which is really great to use either on downhill sections or flat but with a following wind - up to 25 mph is doable before high cadence means suspension bounce commences! Whilst I find the standard gearing for gear #1 allows uphill progress at down to a practical minimum of 5 mph, cadence is then getting too slow so it can be hard work if the hill is of much distance - a lower #1 would be very welcome. For most of my riding, I use #6 a lot more than I do #1, so no pressing need to get the 44T every day use.

[@devjon123]

I'd recommend the 44 tooth chainring conversion. It's a ten minute job and although Brompton recommend a 98 link chain for the 44 tooth ring, in practicality the chain tensioner will take up the slack without issue. Then it is less hassle to swap back at any time. 44 Tooth rings on all our Bromptons now, they've enabled me to get all the way up the hill to the pub without getting off to push, and the road surfaces make me a bit apprehensive if I go flat out so I'm not missing the loss of speed at the top end.

[@adrianlw2750]

Hi Tenkaykev - thanks for the recommendations 😊 I can quite easily go for a 25 mile ride and never use above gear 4 (63.8”) on my standard setup, and still be happy, so I can appreciate that I may not in fact miss the current high top that I have. Good old free-wheeling caters with most downhills after all! I think you are extraordinarily lucky to have your pub at the top of the hill, by the way😂

[@adrianlw2750]

@Tenkaykev - PS - added two weeks on... I now have the 44T chainring (and 98-link chain) fitted. I am delighted with what this does for the bike. I already liked the standard ratios, but now I like this setup more. Although “top speed” is marginally down, it does not bother me at all, and the big benefit I have found for my level of fitness and the roads I use is that the lowered overall ratios mean I can spend more time in gear #5 and #6. And the reason this is so good is that it means for about 40% of my ride I am only having to use the +/- shifter, which makes for nice fuss-free progress and easier change of cadence. Previously I was hopping between #4 and #5, which as experienced Brompton riders will know involves using both gear shifters which interrupts power. Now all I need to do is find that pub at the top of the hill :-)

[@MrJantooth]

thank you very much, right now I know the history, why there is SACHS/SRAM hub gear in old brompton

[@carolannryan8834]

This video has help to explain which Brompton to save up for thank you very much,

[@brilliantbikes]

Thank you for watching and for the kind comment We really hope they help

[@fender1000100]

Brilliant brilliant video. Thankyou. Alot of people including myself learnt alot from this.

[@brilliantbikes]

Thank you! And thank you for watching!

[@chrispig7748]

What a brilliantly done video! Thought I was seeing things at first

[@capeman10]

I thought the same thing 😂

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching and the kind comment Apparently it’s strange to see two of yourself talking to each other!

[@TheFoothpathDiaries]

Was looking to change from 2 to 6 speed I saw the kit on your site

[@RupertBear412]

good video - you could also change the size of the main crank to make things easier or harder as long as you make sure the chain/rear sprocket are compatible

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching and the kind comment With the new ‘spider’ cranks it’s relatively easy to change the gearing We will change to 44T when we go to the alps later in the year - to make the hills a bit easier We made an early video on changing the chainring to change gearing kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4GUZpuDpt-jeas

[@stiv458]

Perfect. Thanks so much for this information, I have been looking at upgrading to 6 speed.

[@amandaleigh3852]

Completely BRILLIANT! Incredibly useful explanation of some of the potential pitfalls for the uninitiated - the video equivalent of a Haynes Manual! Wish I’d known..! All that AND a free clone! 😁

[@iant5222]

ooooh 2 sprockets can be fitted on my sachs never knew that ,would love to stay and chat but am about to go elbow deep in the toolbox ...best vid yet x x

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching It’s (normally) possible - thought the Sachs / SRAM sprockets are like gold dust since SRAM closed the old Sachs factory and discontinued all the internal hub gears ;-(

[@laplumetube1639]

1000 LIKE FROM MOROOCO YOU ARE THE BEST TEATCHER SHOW BROMPTON

[@flpirate45]

Very well explained. Love you Both.

[@the987abc]

I am about to convert a 3spd to a 6spd good thing I have 2 bikes and will just switch. Thanks for the video!!

[@stephenelliott-wright3230]

Great video look forward to each one you make always great information 🤗

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching and your kind comment - we really appreciate all feedback

[@musclecode]

Amazing video!!!

[@brilliantbikes]

Thank you and thanks you for watching!

[@DavidPadrosa]

Hi, the video is super nice and clear, so thanks for that. Actually, I'm looking for a video where you install 1 sprocket only in the wider wheel as you recommend. I see you need to add some spacer here and there, just wondering if there's an available video to help me on that. Thanks.

[@capeman10]

Very nice 👌 I enjoy watching your new videos whether I need the info or not. Thanks.

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching and the extremely kind comment - makes our day!

[@kataja56]

A great Brommie video again!👍😎

[@boejoss]

Really useful thanks. I'm a bit concerned at the prospect of such big gaps between the 3 gears on the BWR but I guess it's not that much different to just never using the derailleur on a 6 (so effectively only using gears 1, 3, 5)?

[@brilliantbikes]

Many thanks for the question. The best way to understand the difference you would have is to have a look at the gear calculator, it’s brilliant to play with and understand what ratios you can get with the different hubs, link as follows: xldev.co.uk/bgc.html Thank you for watching!

[@fredrick8899]

Can i use my 6 speed rear wheel from C Line to change the 3 speed rear wheel on my A Line? And of courseI will change my shifters

[@elnous]

There is actually another reason why the sprockets are incompatible. A fundamental reason!: The hub of 3 is Standard Ratio (changes are more consecutive), and the hub of 6 is Wide Ratio (Changes are more spaced, resulting in, say 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5 where the integers resulting from the same hub are with the pinion in "Minus", and the intermediate ones, with the pinion "Plus"

[@Quesjer1]

Really, the end is the best. Love those bloopers!! That said, the quality of your information is top notch. Keep going on!!

[@brilliantbikes]

Thank you - we do try not to go wrong !

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching and the comment I actually (being a mountain biker at heart) - prefer the wider range with bigger gap and just one gear trigger Many prefer close ratio gears

[@elnous]

@@brilliantbikes Thank you for the videos!! A bug hug from Buenos Aires, Argentina! :)

[@elnous]

@@brilliantbikes I'm not a MTB rider, but, I preffer the same.configuration. When my Papyrus White arrives, I will surely opt for + or - for daily use, and handle myself only with internal changes :)

[@douglaslin5469]

Thanks for the great video. It and you are fabulous. I've read that some Brompton's have the expensive 14 speed Rohloff hub fitted. But there are also several Shimano internal gearbox hubs made - including some which are not expensive. For instance, the Shimano Nexus or Alfine cost from one eighth to one quarter the price of a Rohloff 14 speed hub. I think a 7 speed Nexus is around one eighth the price. I am wondering if you have looked at this option, as 7 speeds with one gear shift mechanism, would be easier than Brompton's current 6 speed with two mechanism arrangement?

[@vlnuevo]

Hi, im planning to upgrade my 3 speed's bsr to bwr hub. Do i have to change the shifter cables or only just the bwr hub and sprocket will do?

[@junior4468]

The best advice I’m going to convert my 6 speed wheels to a 3 speed

[@vishmeister4151]

I love you! It was so insightful and I thank you for it 🙏

[@stephenmccluney4910]

Are the new Sturmey Archer hubs significantly different from the older hub shells ??? You used to be able to source a dished 3 lug sprocket ( Cyclo Benelux did one decades ago, but i got mine in the early 2000's) that would allow you to convert from a single sprocket to double . I know this for a FACT because i have one fitted to my Moulton, changing it from a Sturmey Archer 4 speed to an 8 speed !! Love the videos !

[@cango75]

Really like your videos :) I did an 8 speed conversion on mine just to see if I could, hours of fun and kept me amused for a few weeks! Have you done an 8 Speed yet?

[@bytesabre]

I confirm it is possible, I now have a 6 speed B75, but it is a pain in the arse to do

[@brilliantbikes]

How did you get the 2 speed derailleur for your B75 - Brompton have discontinued these (some time ago)

[@bytesabre]

@@brilliantbikes had to get a secondhand one, which was missing the bit that the cable outer rested on, so I had to model and 3d print that part. Also got a used but good condition rim, new old stock hub, tensioner from some guy who apparently didn’t know how to clean it, 2 extra chain links that I had in my toolbox for the last 20 years or so went on too. rest of the stuff came from your shop. While you’re here, can you recommend a tyre that’ll be less likely to slip sideways than marathon racers? Banged up my knee. In other news idea for future YT vid: comparisons of pros and cons of different available Brompton tyres

[@bytesabre]

@@brilliantbikes oh my backup plan was an old skool non-indexed friction shifter. I see no reason why I couldn’t use one of those as it’s only 2 positions anyway

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for that great explanation - really going the extra mile - 3D printing!!!! Although they are slick - the Continental Contacts ‘feel’ like they have more grip Your idea of a tyre-off is great - we were just discussing over the weekend how to dress hannaH as a crash test dummy!

[@bytesabre]

@@brilliantbikes shouldn’t be too hard, being a dummy comes naturally to me some days :D if I get a chance to drop into the shop sometime I’ll bring you some 3D printed clamp springs

[@peggyundjack]

I watch all of your videos and am very impressed. I’m slightly confused about my 5 gear Brompton 1996 wheel. Do any of the recent updated wheels replace my wheel? The 5 speed S/A is broken on mine and would like to replace it. What are your recommendations please.

[@brilliantbikes]

If you want to replace with a 5 speed wheel, we have them built especially, link as follows: brilliantbikes.co.uk/brompton-wheels/4664-5-speed-rear-wheel-with-wide-range-sturmey-archer-hub-for-brompton.html Thank you for watching!

[@danlim1795]

Can you introduce alternative shifter for the Brompton 6 speeds?

[@martinsonnenberg3024]

In Germany a there is Juliane Neuß who fits Nexus 8 gears to Bromptons.

[@bytesabre]

There’s apparently some lunatic in Scotland who builds new rear triangles that lets you use one of those rohloff hubs with a bazillion speeds too, but they aren’t cheap

[@RupertBear412]

@@bytesabre yes, its a company called kinetics www.kinetics-online.co.uk/ but he also does the 8 speed conversion which I got him to do on my 2003 brompton which over the years has gone from a 3 to 6 and now an 8

[@stephenmccluney4910]

@@RupertBear412 I got Kinetics to fit S&S couplings to my bike about 10 years ago ... It was such a TERRIBLE mess i sent it straight to Bob Jackson cycles for EXTENSIVE repair ...My advise for what it's worth is AVOID KINETICS LIKE A PLAGUE !!!

[@TM-vg4mx]

great video, a video for Brompton B75 lovers?

[@carstennielsen9099]

Is there a video that describe how to chance the sprocket on a 3 speed. If you want for instance to ride with a faster kadence? If not please do one. The dane

[@brilliantbikes]

Yes there is, link as follows Brompton 3-speed sprocket/cog installation - BSR - Brompton Standard Ratio wheel kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZvYl3StZ6h4m6s Hope this help and thanks for watching

[@mazuvid]

Can the one speed wheel take an additional cog for a one- to two-speed conversion?

[@brilliantbikes]

Yes the one speed and two speed wheel is the same - just with different sprocket sets 1 speed has a spacer and one sprocket 2 speed has 2 sprockets (but does need a different chain tensioner and all the derailleur controls) Would a 1-2 speed upgrade video be good?

[@cchung3311]

Can the freewheel hub be changed on the hubs other than on the C Line?

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching! In theory you can change them all, in practice you can’t get spares for most of them!

[@bobrose7900]

I missed this video when it was first released, but I laughed just the same! Now, why do Brompton have this extra complication of hub and derailleur gears? Why don't they use the 6 speed hub setup from Rohloff? Mmmmm must check the aftermarket boys, I think they've been busy. Great video!

[@FirstLast-jm4dx]

I saw a video from Carl Drexler where he changed out the 3-spline driver on the BSR hub to the Shimano-spline driver from a BWR. Does Brompton sell the drivers from the BWR? On a side note, I also noticed that in Asia, they have the 3-spline drivers that can hold 2 cogs.

[@martuchna6084]

Can I change only rear weel or do I have to change front one too?

[@brilliantbikes]

You do not need to change the front wheel at all

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

When I bought my LightweightH6LBrompton I invested in a special Sturmey Archer key also, but it seems to be in vain, as a skrewdriver does the trick! :-(

[@goodq]

We are having a wheely nice day Hahahaha nice one.

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching Sorry for the cheesy joke!

[@mustachgloria6445]

@@brilliantbikes what is the weight of a S2LX superlight titanium 2020 model brompton? Thanks.

[@peterexley4985]

⚙️🔧🚴❤️👍That’s why bankrupt 🤔question I read that the stanley archer wide ratio was stronger 💪 and on the outside market you can upgrade to a 9 speed is that correct? Ps very dry pun 😅funny ie you got me in a spin and geared ⚙️up ,what do you prefer a 6 or 3 speed or 9 🦵🧠🫁🫀

[@nickgilmore5197]

Great video thanks. So for the reduced gearing option, is the chainring changed to one with fewer teeth?

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching There are two ways to reduce the gearing ... Make the front chainring smaller - e.g. change from 50 to 44T or Make the rear cog / sprocket bigger e.g. change a standard 3 speed 13T to 14T The six speed has 13T and 16T sprockets so you get a nice selection

[@blueyonder1233]

Love to meet you at the pub!

[@KW35-]

Is it possible to use lager shimano sprockets on the 6 speed version to get better climbing abilities?

[@paulwoo804]

Hi, does 3 speed come with only an internal hub? If so, is 3 speed a lot more reliable than 6 speed?

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching Yes - 3 speed is just an internal hub - so no derailleur We would say yes it therefore (just because it is less moving parts - derailleur / cable / trigger) is slightly more reliable

[@paulwoo804]

brilliantbikes Thanks for answering my questions. I’ve just ordered my very first Brompton (or first bike ever). I’m learning so much from your channel, keep up the great work here! :)

[@bytesabre]

I notice you sell 5 speed SA hubs with sprocket and shifter. What’s the deal with that and is that a viable option for those willing to build their own wheel? I ask as I recently got a b75 on cycle2work (as everything else was north of the £1000 limit), already upgraded everything else on it, and am working on 3d printed easy wheels for it

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching Yes - the 5 speed hub can be built to make a Brompton wheel (it’s wide range too) The difficulty is finding someone to do it as it’s quite time consuming

[@bytesabre]

brilliantbikes I did a mountain bike wheel about 20 years ago so can’t see this being much worse. I will ponder this while waiting for the pandemic to go away, and swing by your shop on my commute home if I decide to go for it. At least that should be everything on one shifter, but I understand I may need a 6 speed tensioner to work with it. There really isn’t much info out there on using them

[@davidburgess5419]

Watch out gels !! It looks like some cad has taken a saw to the middle of your park bench. What a bounder :-)

[@brilliantbikes]

You are right! we were worried it could collapse :-) Thanks for watching and paying close attention

[@CC-me7bc]

Your two actors weren’t really adhering to the social distancing guidlines there!! #taketwo

[@brilliantbikes]

Yes we did worry about that ;-). Thanks for pointing it out Thank you for watching

[@helloitsdawn]

Let me guess, your "twin's" name is Anna. 🤣 Love this! Would you please make a video on the alternative approach that does not require a second shifter? Looking to try this on my B75. Thanks.

[@Esqz33]

I just switched to a 39T front chainring on the B75 and it is now perfect for climbing hills

[@helloitsdawn]

@@Esqz33 Nice. I am new to this, but unafraid to modify it. I have already upgraded to Eazy Wheels and Pentaclip. Pedals and the front block are next. If you have a link to documentation or just want to share your process in this thread, please do.

[@Esqz33]

@@helloitsdawn Search for Stronglight Dural 5083 9/10 Speed Chainring 130mm BCD between £15 and £18. Very easy job just take the 5 bolts out of the crankarm spider, ring off and new ring on and shorten the chain if need be>(not required on the B75). I went from a 44T to 39T and leaving the length in the chain was ok .

[@helloitsdawn]

@@Esqz33 Thanks! Much appreciated. 🤗🛠

[@frankhooper7871]

I've seen a third-party 5-speed Sturmey-Archer replacement hub & shifter. Do you have any experience of this?

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching Sturmey Archer do a 5 speed SRF-5 wide range hub - with 28 holes (for spokes) and 148mm axle - so perfect for Bromptons It comes complete with gear changer I used to have one on a previous Brompton and we plan to build another very soon!

[@mavericktechreview1250]

Can we swap the rear wheel to another that has more internal gears?

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching and the great (often asked to us) question We do a simple upgrade from 3 - 5 speed (maybe we should make a video on that) brilliantbikes.co.uk/brompton-wheels/4664-5-speed-rear-wheel-with-wide-range-sturmey-archer-hub-for-brompton.html if you want even more - our friend Ben at Kinetics does a Shimano Alfine 8/11 speed kit www.kinetics-online.co.uk/folding-bikes/brompton/brompton-alfine-kits/

[@mavericktechreview1250]

@@brilliantbikes The gear upgrades is good but capped at 18T. I am looking for low climbing gears or for touring purpose. I see people chain to a customised build 50T/33T chainring. This might be good to cover the lower gear ratios?

[@CosgroveNotts]

I'm lost there lol

[@sheilastallard]

2 metres or 1 metre ? your twin should know better!! KEEP SAFE you TWO!!

[@brilliantbikes]

Thank you for your concern We will make sure that they wear face masks if "they" come into contact with strangers - they are in the same bubble right now ;-) Thank you for watching yet again!

[@tortinwall]

Not only were the actors not distancing but the bench looks a bit dangerous, like it’s been cut in half and rejoined rather badly.

[@brilliantbikes]

🤪 thanks for watching and paying close attention - we will get our health and safety people on it!

[@silva27]

Hello. How do I do the reverse? I have a 6 speed brompton but I don’t use the extra 3 speed and also to save weight. What can I do with a 6speed down to a 3speed?

[@brilliantbikes]

Thanks for watching - and for the question Changing from 6 speed to 3 speed won't save much weight (as most of the saving is in the rear wheel / hub domination when moving to 2 speed) You would save the weight of the gear shifter / trigger, the gear cables for the derailleur and the derailleur You should change to the non-derailleur chain tensioner - otherwise you will need to leave the chain pusher on and adjust it so that the chain doesn't move side to side You could also change from the BWR6 - double sprocket to the BWR3 single sprocket For the hassle / saving - it's just as easy to leave as a 6 speed :-)

[@gblan]

...or just build an 11 speed Alfine wheel and be done with it.

[@BELLAPHONTOO]

#posh

[@cabaretampere]

How about 2 to 3 speed? 2 cogs to 3 cogs, not hub gears.

[@CosgroveNotts]

I never use my plus and minus. So when I bought another, I just got 3 speed

[@gregjohnson720]

No social distancing and she talks to herself!

[@카페인원샷-h1e]

What the hell is going on? lol

[@effyleven]

(You're much better looking than your friend.)

[@wolf8900]

Ilegal upgrade...