Brooks Cascadia 18. Is It An Upgrade Over The Cascadia 17?

[@josephdubiel7129]

Excellent review guys. First time I have ever seen one of your reviews. Extremely detailed.

[@ConversationalPace]

Glad you found the channel and thanks for watching!

[@michaelpalm2210]

Scott Jurek set the world record on the AT in just 46 days wearing ....... Cascadias. That says a lot about their capability and ruggedness.

[@pauljovanovic1097]

Just got these shoes yesterday, and I experienced the same lock-in issues that Finn is describing. I found that on downhills, my foot was sliding all the way to the front of the shoe and banging up against the front. It's a wild experience to hear the exact same gripe that has me looking for another shoe.

[@ConversationalPace]

Did lacing up to the top eyelet not help out with the lockdown? It's interesting how experiences regarding fit and lockdown can differ so wildly between all of us.

[@thelegendandthechamp]

Great review. Sent these back after my first run. Toe Box was literally destroying my big toe. Had 6 pairs of the 16's but since the 17 I feel Brooks have turned this into a Hiking shoe.

[@berry5954]

Sending back shoes AFTER running in them. Still can't get my head around the concept but it sounds lovely, utterly not environmental but good for some wallets.

[@thelegendandthechamp]

@@berry5954 Brooks have a 90 day returns policy, sometimes a shoe feels great walking round the house but not on the trails. The shoes get reused via Brooks, so no harm to the environment.

[@alredalred]

@@berry5954 Running warehouse and REI offer it.

[@palmvalleyinvestments]

I hike and do property clean up with mine and love the 16s and 17s. I will pass on the 18s for now

[@michaelpalm2210]

I just bought a pair Cascadia 16 for $87.........a 2022 model leftover at a local running store

[@dd240sx]

Was reading reviews for this shoe yesterday and was hoping you guys would review it. Just loged in KZbin and there it is.

[@ConversationalPace]

Fish fish got your wish! Hope it has proved useful to you!

[@Andy-x3i8y]

I really wish shoe companies would stop changing fit year to year. Sure, use different materials, more breathable, lighter, better, traction, etc., but messing with toebox size and length and starting every season with a different fitting shoe is just a pain in the ass.

[@ConversationalPace]

Yeah it's a huge PITA for sure. It does seem that there are a few companies who are starting to move some of their core models to a 2 year cycle, which helps a bit

[@davidszachno2782]

I like brooks for the generally wider toebox but now inov8 have done the anatomical toebox think I am gonna try the trail talon for my winter shoe. I do love love my Calderas though

[@ConversationalPace]

Inov8 is still a brand we have yet to have on the channel. Hopefully that changes for 2025!

[@pates4442]

Had the toe box issues too. Big toe always banged against the toe bumper and got pushed medially. Really painful when i used them for longer hikes/runs. For me it isn't a sizing issue, cause i have a lot of room in front of my toes. It's the shape of the toe box and the hard material.

[@ConversationalPace]

I had that exact same experience in the Caldera, but for some reason don't have that with this Cascadia. Interesting how just a mm of difference here and there can make all the difference

[@misterlovenoodle]

Have the same issue with my cascadia 16, I’ve replaced the insole and it fixed the problem

[@ConversationalPace]

@@misterlovenoodle What kind of insole did you use instead?

[@mahmoudnaguib8928]

Amazing review guys, thanks alot .. talking about Cascadia 16 i know it's an old version but what if it in a good sale for a 100$ .. i do intermediate hikes once a week for 10 km approx.. will it be a good option or its way better to go for 17 or 18 ?

[@ConversationalPace]

For hiking, I don't think the 17 or 18 is hugely better than the 16. I'd go with the 16 for a price like that! 👍

[@michaelpalm2210]

@@ConversationalPace I have 2 pairs of 16's and they are fantastic

[@davidszachno2782]

I found the uppers on the 17s not very resilient, the little vents on the sides in particular just became holes very quickly. I’ve fixed with the K tape / waterproof flexible glue method but it’s good to see the 18s appeared to address this

[@djendara7725]

Well...I was walking 820km in this Cascadia 18 in 30 days.In dry,in wet conditions,all surfaces mud,gravel,tarmac...many uphills and downhills. I have normal feet's. After all I throw them in garbage because they was destroyed and smells bad.But they was for me,very comfortable, very protective, not sliding feet in Quecha socks,but Under armour was sliding.Very breathable upper ,good place for fingers.Upper is destroyed on place where they bend after 720km.They was wet 14 days,just for remind you.Outsole very good grip in all conditions and after 820km not destroyed at all.I will buy them new pair for sure even Salomon is more durable in same conditions but not so comfortable.

[@ryanlemley7736]

Fair and balanced is the best line ever :)

[@PhuriousPhil]

I have only had one pair of Cascadias and unfortunately they were the 10s (the duct tape ones). I couldnt even get 100 miles out of them before the uppers blew up! Since then I've never gone back to try any of the updated models. After watching this review I remian unconvinced by the shoe. It'd be great to hear you guys review La Sportiva's Mutant. A real workhorse of a trail shoe and (for me at least) a much better alternative to the Cascadia. Likewise it can often be found at a reasonable price in sales and is way more durable. Keep up the great work guys.

[@ConversationalPace]

The mutant would definitely be a fun one to put some miles on! I feel like Brooks lost a lot of Cascadia customers the year of the duct tape model 🤣

[@zacharygarner9425]

Raising the midsole in front of the toes instead of using a toe cap is usually an W for shoe design. Normal kjerag launch version for example had a soft toe cap yet protected the toes. The only use case for a toe cap should be for less running oriented technical shoes like the ls mutant

[@ConversationalPace]

Yeah I totally agree with that. I've definitely survived the most rock kicks with the raised midsole design

[@onedirection3510]

Hopefully someone can reply to this. I have been a Cascadia fan going all the way back to the Cascadia 5. I love the style and the look. I definitely don’t do serious trail running. I’m thinking of getting this shoe for casual kicks probably to be worn barefoot with the laces open. That is how I have always enjoyed these. I hope the 18’s would be a good choice for my needs. As per this review, my only concern would be toebox discomfort. Thanks!

[@ConversationalPace]

If you're looking for a pretty wide toe box for optimal toe splay, I'd look at some competitor models from Altra or Topo. The Cascadia is fully seamless so it is pretty smooth on the inside, FWIW

[@rmsrmsrmsrms]

Just a salute to the Wildhorse 3-4-5 callout! I used all those. The zoomair pod in the heel was so sweet

[@ConversationalPace]

Wildhorse 3 was such an incredible shoe. The 4 still has one of the strangest upper updates I've ever seen, but the 5 brought the magic back for sure

[@rmsrmsrmsrms]

@@ConversationalPace quite a bit of lace bite from the flywires though. i think that was part of the thought behind the WH4 changes, and then they ditched flywires entirely

[@ConversationalPace]

@@rmsrmsrmsrms The whole cut innertube glued to the side of the forefoot was a strange addition to the WH4 upper 🤣

[@carlgreenstreet5435]

I wore Cascadia 17 on a 1200 km thru-hike this year. This is my sixth year of annual>1000 km thru-hikes plus daily training, all wearing Cascadias. I tried switching to Saucony's one year and had terrible blistering issues so I switched back to Cascadia's after a few hundred kilometres and the blister issue went away. That said, the Cascadia 17s were far from my favourite model. I size them up a full size and go double wide (11.5 2E) to account for foot swelling but I still had issues with blistering on my smallest two toes. Not sure if it was the shape of the toe box or that the trail was hot and dusty or a combination. I've hiked this trail before and never had even a single blister with older Cascadia versions! I wore the same pair for the entire 1200 km hike, which I recognise was pushing them, and they were completely worn out at the end with the uppers ripped on the sides where the shoe flexes, the cushioning shot and the lugs completely worn flat. I was debating whether to buy another pair of 17s but based on your review I'll pay a bit extra for the 18s as a roomy toe box and a better upper might correct the issues I had with the 17s.

[@ConversationalPace]

it'll be interesting to see if the 18 will hold up as well for you as the 17s did! Probably still go with the wide version of the 18s if the wide 17s worked well for you 👍

[@fragender9552]

I never cared much about shoes, a few years ago i accidentally tried the brooks ghosts and it was like, wow a shoe can fit that well? Even never heard about brooks before. Now im excited to try the waterproof gtx Cascadia because in the ghosts i always get wet socks in my sports.

[@darrenjohn3382]

I'm thinking of buying cascadia 18 for a casual winter shoe instead of the adidas terex gortex

[@ConversationalPace]

Definitely would make for a great winter shoe. Especially if you also get the GTX version of the Cascadia 18

[@DerrellD1988]

Is the Nike Pegasus Trail 5 on the review board? I have been hoping to see it pop up on your channel to hear your thoughts. Been one of my favorite shoes this year. Digging the new upper.. React X seems to have a good bounce / feels great underfoot and the new ATC outsole is an improvement.

[@ConversationalPace]

We'd definitely like to review the Peg Trail 5, but have a few others we plan on getting to before that, so I'd say it's a bubble review shoe for 2024 👍

[@berry5954]

It's a hiking shoe. I'd not run in it if i'd get paid. It's a good hiking shoe though. Dear friends at Brooks look at the Tecton X 3, Take the Caldera 7, & the Agil add the gaitor, put in a double carbon plate, convert the upper to Matryx, convert the lug pattern to not pick up mud and make it look as cool as the agil and launch asap. The Caldera 7 is a weapon which is overlooked because it "is a Brooks", the Agil looks awesome... Brooks could be cool and fast and and and..

[@ConversationalPace]

You make it sound so easy 🤣 🤣

[@berry5954]

@@ConversationalPace You know it is.. Hoka did it after churning out utter turds. So Brooks def can do it. Nothing new needs to be developed, just use the best inhouse available solutions with the best materials, charge a super premium price and they will sell like hotcakes.

[@nikosbakas957]

Have you heard of xbionic terrascin? I think it's worth a review. Thanks!

[@ConversationalPace]

We definitely have that one on our review wish list! Super fascinating looking shoe

[@nikosbakas957]

@@ConversationalPace can't wait! It also supposed to have some unique structural technologies. Let see 🤔

[@seanmac80]

What IS Brooks' race day shoe? Catamount 2? Caldera? I've never run in a Brooks shoe.

[@massimomalossini7823]

catamount 3 for sure. for long ultras caldera or cascadia. depends

[@ilink109]

The agil

[@ConversationalPace]

The Agil is their short mountain trail shoe, and the Catamount is the mid distance racer. They have a bit of a hole in the ultra race shoe category, as the Catamount is a little thin and the Caldera is a little bulky.

[@davidwalsvig2959]

If I'm not mistaken, didn't a Brooks state they softened the foam blend on the 18?

[@ConversationalPace]

I thought they said they didn't, but things can definitely change. I wish I had a 17 at the time of testing so I could have done some more direct comparing

[@djendara7725]

My friend have v17 and he was try my v18 and he said 18 is more softer and comfortable.

[@cheynevanarsdale8294]

Any word on a Mafate Speed 5 from HOKA? Feel like it should be coming since the 4 has been out for a bit now. Love the 4 but would love a few updates

[@ConversationalPace]

No word on a Mafate Speed 5 yet. I agree though, it's been I think 2 years since we've seen a Mafate update

[@PeterCrosbyIII]

Need more subdued colors. I don't like disco shoes.

[@davidwalsvig2959]

I'd be curious to see if you guys ever get the Asics Gel Trabuco 12 to compare.

[@ConversationalPace]

Yeah that Trabuco 12 definitely looks like a very direct Cascadia competitor!

[@sarah430]

I’ve been wearing the Cascadia’s since #5. Agreed they have morphed to not a great racing shoe. Switched to the Catamounts for racing but they seem to be getting beefier too. Any recommendations for a good trail racing shoe up to 50 miles for a Cascadia lover?

[@ConversationalPace]

if you switched to the Catamount for racing and that is feeling too beefy, perhaps looking into the Nnormal Kjerag or Merrell Long Sky 2 Matryx could be worthwhile. CP has done full reviews on both of those shoes 👍

[@davidszachno2782]

Have you tried Calderas? I love mine - nit for super technical but they’re really comfortable and I find responsive too

[@highcolorado805]

Is conversational pace a podcast too or only youtube?

[@ConversationalPace]

Just on KZbin due to the visual nature of the episodes, showing various elements of the shoe. Having an audio only form is definitely something we're taking into consideration too!

[@higler.]

1:35 😆

[@ConversationalPace]

"I hate that phrase for a lot of reasons" 🤣

[@MrTCFIRE]

Meanwhile the Brooks road shoes are making waves…seems the left hand should know what the right hand is doing…

[@ConversationalPace]

I've seen with a few other brands like Nike, On and Asics where there is about a year delay between the R&D and tech from the roads trickling over to the trails. Hopefully this pattern holds true with Brooks!

[@HowardWortonjb71]

Gave Brooks a try wi both the previous Caldera and the Cascadia 15. The latter is just ok, the former is the worst trail shoe I’ve ever run in. I want to like the brand and their products but they just feel a bit basic these days.

[@ConversationalPace]

Brooks has always been pretty conservative when it comes to their innovation and updating of shoes. They did just hire a new CEO a few months back who has plans to make a bit more of an aggressive push regarding innovation, so hopefully we see that reflected sooner rather than later!

[@randmcnally.]

I think it just goes to show that a shoe for me is not a shoe for you and vice versa. I am at 717km in my Caldera 7 and I look forward to putting them on. I ran them through half the winter, all over continent, and even wore them in a river for at least 3 hours on and off a couple of weeks ago. I have a tiny little bit of damage on the upper, but it still feels and runs great. I have no idea why anyone would buy the Cascadia though. Having said all of this, I am thinking I want to try something faster next (but I am also going to buy another pair of Calderas before they disappear).

[@jakeva9802]

@@randmcnally.yup, i love my caldera 7s. I use them for backpacking/thru hiking

[@ConversationalPace]

@@randmcnally. Yeah 100%, which is why there continues to be an increasing number of different trail shoes releasing. There's something for everyone out there, and Conversational Pace will try its best to do a thorough breakdown of as many of these shoes as we can. if you like the Brooks fit and materials but are looking for something a bit faster feeling, the Catamount might be worth looking into