Brownells Retro AR-15 Family: What Was, Is and Yet to Come

/ forgottenweapons
www.floatplane.com/channel/Fo...
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.bbtv.com/collections/forg...
Brownells has produced a substantial line of retro AR-15 pattern rifles, from the "Proto" with the trigger-shaped charging handle to the M16A1 and XM-177 rifles and carbines. Today I am joined by Paul Levy from Brownells at RIA to discuss how these rifles came to be, and what the future plans are for the line.
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85740

[@RonOhio]

It's good to hear people talking about the economics of making and selling things.

[@RonOhio]

@Damublphgor999 Well, thanks for adding another author to my reading list, but my comment wasn't meant as humor. I worked in manufacturing, from designing, quoting, buying of tooling and materials thru machining. The misconceptions and illusions people have about how products get made are staggering. Many people don't have any idea why you can buy something as complex as a cell phone for as little as you can, while trying to buy a much simpler product as a one off costs a relative fortune.

[@Honsey178]

I completely agree with you, Ron. I also work in manufacturing, as a tool designer for a tool and die company that also does in-house production metal stamping. We have a lot of people come through the door that want a custom part made, then get sticker shock when we tell them what it will cost. It's difficult to convey how much R&D goes into a product. Even a simple little sheet metal bracket can take thousands of dollars and weeks to months of research and developpment to produce a prototype, much less a complete rifle that utilizes forgings, stampings, billet components, injection molded pieces, etc..

[@RonOhio]

@@Veritas419 When demand tapers off for something, you discontinue it. The worst thing you can do is to keep making something in the hope that demand will come back. That is like a gambler who gets ahead at the casino and keeps on betting in the hopes of wining even more; when he should have pocketed his profits and walked away. Unsold product nibbles away at the profits from products that are selling. Product lifecycle management is an entire business discipline, and a lot of it doesn't seem to make sense from a common sense perspective.

[@davidwilliams5749]

Last time I was this early, I was being told the M-16 never needed to be cleaned.

[@peerpoutinelord8672]

Nice one

[@johnunderwood43]

My drill sergeants would have had you in the low crawl pit for life for that joke.

[@wingracer1614]

It's great. It never needs to be cleaned because no one needs it. -Biden

[@AryDontSurf]

@@wingracer1614 Clean the what?

[@rong1924]

@@wingracer1614 And thanks for that, Arizona... What the hell were you thinking?

[@markbecht1420]

So a BRNFAMAS is unlikely

[@jeffo3141]

Which is an understandable tragedy.

[@dksdg]

I think that is probably one of the best repro’s to do in the US. All the people who have the $40k original imports might be a little angry though.

[@KowOneOhTwo]

@@dksdg no they won't, they still have the only real ones.

[@practicalshooter6517]

Yes, that is a superb idea.

[@BlackHawkBallistic]

RIP 🅱️AMAS

[@jamesdunning8650]

Built a retro using brownell parts. Used original buttstock and triangular handguards on my m16a1 clone. It looks better than most women ;)

[@jamesdunning8650]

@@emergingloki me too. Shocking how bad the autospell is on youtube.

[@WardenWolf]

I did a retromod and got some very good replica A1 handguards. They use modern polymers and modern production techniques, but on the outside they have the proper look and feel. The problem with the Brownells is they're trying to replicate nearly everything exactly, including how the heatshield attaches and how the halves mesh together, things that time has shown us don't work that well.

[@johnknouse8846]

The first AR I built myself was an M16A1 clone. I grew up seeing pics of my dad in Vietnam carrying one, so when I was able to build one of my own I knew exactly how I wanted it to look!

[@RefreshingDietDrPepper]

So now that they're flying off the shelves, they're discontinuing them. That's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see how it plays out for them.

[@jasonhaman9556]

As of 8:31 am They're sold out of everything

[@wk3818]

Dodgeball. Quite possibly one of the greatest movies of all time. Besides AIRPLANE!

[@curious-relics]

Pretty smart and practical of them actually. The market for niche, incremental prototype ARs is not a big one and it's far better for them to sell out now while they're ahead and pursue other, more-exciting reproduction projects.

[@SuperAWaC]

he said you can still buy the individual parts and assemble your own

[@jimyeats]

Lol. Dodgeball reference appreciated, but otherwise I think there is a lot more at play with regard to why they are discontinuing certain models and only able to do these is smaller batches.

[@nitroxylictv]

Can you please bring them back in stock like god damn all we ask for is the complete 16A1.

[@Celebmacil]

"A2's are retro now." Well... fuck. -_-

[@justineallandevelos6491]

You were issued with a A2 before?

[@Celebmacil]

@@justineallandevelos6491 Yeah. I qualified with a A1 in basic back in 1992, then had an A2 for my time with the 101st until 1995, and we were issued A2's with the 41st Infantry in the guard until the early 00's when we started getting some M4's.

[@bbbrady21]

Bring the retro line back!!!! We want them!

[@hw.s388]

Wonder if Ian's getting sponsored for all of these Brownells content he makes, I'm not complaining though, loving the series of Retro AR-15.

[@gr6373]

Aren't they helping him with the "What Would Stoner Do"?

[@davidwilliams5749]

@@gr6373 Yes, they are partnered for the WWSD 2020.

[@hw.s388]

@@gr6373 I was under the impression the WWSD project had already been finalized like, 6 months ago, and is just waiting for production. My memory's a bit hazy, though.

[@redram5150]

Wouldn’t be surprised this is tangential to his WWSD promotions. The impetus for WWSD is bringing the platform back to its roots by applying that viewpoint with present-day materials.

[@terryfaugno9242]

InRange gets a cut of the profit from complete WWSD2020 rifles, but that's it. No kickbacks from bare lowers or anything else.

[@commandZee]

There's something about the profile of a carry handle upper combined with a fixed front sight base that's just so attractive. The sight picture from behind the rifle is just as pleasing.

[@docback63]

I'm not being a smart a*s, but actually it's not a "carry hamdle". In reality it was a "trigger guard" which was left over from when they had a trigger charging handle that stuck out thru the top of the upper receiver, and it needed the protection, but they found that it got too hot so they relocated it to the rear where it is now, and the "tigger guard" "carry handle" was left in place. Note that when Stoner designed his next rifle , the AR-180, it did not have a "carry handle" up top. Again , not being a smart a*s, and I agree they look cool with the carry handle. :)

[@ryanhilton9401]

I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one hoping for a BRN A2 model. The M16A2 was the first rifle I’d ever fired during basic training in the army and I need to scratch that nostalgic itch.

[@franknbeanz147]

3:55 Damn Immortan Joe just walks into the scene

[@seanseanston]

RIP Toecutter ;'(

[@perciusmandate]

The next thing I'd like to see Brownells do is a true retro version of their AR-18 clone.

[@DerekIcelord]

Several people (myself included) have said the same. But Brownell's said when they debuted the BRN-180 upper line (I forget if it was Forgotten Weapons or InRange TV that did the interview) they aren't planning to tool up for stamping as that's monstrously expensive, as was mentioned here. Sadly, there isn't enough demand to make that profitable.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

We have a final chapter in this series about the 180 coming in a few weeks...

[@franknbeanz147]

Would love a Reto looking one doesn't have to be a complete retro build just with the classic furniture and not the free floating rail

[@RandomPerson8492]

I would have thought that a retro version of the BRN-180 would just be a retro-_style_, considering the upper is meant to be mated to AR-15 receivers. It wouldn't be _that_ difficult to make an upper using a retro-style handguard and sights, would it?

[@Cakeyflour]

@@DerekIcelord It doesn't have to be stamped, though. IIRC NoDak Spud actually makes a milled 180 lower for replacing polymer AR-180B lowers from the early 2000s. They already have a relationship with NoDak, and they already make the functional guts for the modern BRN180, so it really doesn't seem that impractical to make a retro BRN180.

[@TBreezy17]

The proto looks slick.

[@TBreezy17]

@Last One $1600 is a little more than I can afford at the moment lol www.brownells.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto/brn-proto-5-56-prod124179.aspx

[@BadForYourKidneys]

@@johnbrenot2538 yeah they seem to not be making new parts for the time being and only clearing out what they already have. I have an incomplete set for my AR-10 because I can’t find their grips or stocks anywhere. I hope they pump up their parts supply after the holidays.

[@j.yossarian6852]

Proto + 601 furniture = dream

[@Fire_truck_man]

@Dan S I doubt anybody is going to die because Ian talked to a guy for 20 minutes without a mask, please go find something better to do with your time then turn every comment section into an argument.

[@jamesodonovan8917]

The BRN-10 handguards fit on the proto

[@detinator5]

The BRN-605 is so awesome. Shout-out to Brownells for breathing new life into retro firearms technology.

[@kenhelmers2603]

Thanks guys!

[@JLieppinen]

Very cool. I love how those new green parts look.

[@imnotsmart99]

I would like to get the 16A1 like had in the Army in the early 80's , but they are always out of stock

[@DanBowkley]

Same, I learned on an A1 in Navy boot camp in '95.

[@Slaytanic187]

@Dan S Is a virus with a mostly 99.9-99.99% survival rate your idea of a pandemic? I have no idea why people still believe in the fear porn from the MSM. Is it too hard to understand it's being used to control you and take away your freedoms?

[@doranh6410]

​@@KB3AOL Note that Shingles virtually occurs in elderly folk whose immune systems are understandably weakened, the immune system was suppressing the virus beforehand. Symptoms are mostly caused by the body's reaction to a foreign pathogen, not every person has the same immune system and this can be seen in the case of Typhoid Mary who was a asymptomatic carrier.

[@doranh6410]

@@KB3AOL The HIV virus can be asymptomatic and when untreated becomes AIDS

[@hyattbusbey3563]

@@Slaytanic187 Who are you trying to convince? Yourself?

[@zxggwrt]

This retro AR thing is out of control. I love it.

[@christiansantiago3007]

Thought it was pretty amazing they put out so many retro AR items. Glad they are at least keeping the XM16E1, M16A1, XM177 and the parts.

[@jamestarbet9608]

Yeaaaaaah! I finally get to be in a Forgotten Weapons video! Great to meet and talk with you both.

[@Doughboy842]

Retro M16's are my fave type of M16's ❤

[@corneliusbongwater6102]

Ive been checking their website every week since this time last year for the 16E1 to be in stock

[@dksdg]

These are great videos with Paul

[@Hawk1966]

I'm really digging the green furniture on Ian's rifle.

[@KomodoDad]

Glad to hear the 16A1 will be coming back. I'd love to get my hands on one but was late to the party by the time they were already out of stock.

[@Mrgunsngear]

A2! A2! A2! 😎🇺🇸

[@PARR53]

Love my X-BRN16E1. It’s such a sweet rifle. I got the brownells retro optic as well. For the money they are pretty awesome. Not the greatest glass clarity but definitely good enough. Very happy with it. It’s a great combination with the XM16E1 clone. Highly recommended.

[@trevor8049]

I love my BRN16a1. So does everybody, everywhere I take it. It's definitely a conversation piece at public ranges.

[@richardpowell4281]

Nice! SmallArmsSolutions also did a breakdown comparison video on several of their guns and some other repros.

[@Pcm979]

I'd love to send some money Brownell's way if I lived in a country that allowed me to buy their products.

[@RustyShackelfordOfficial]

Don't feel bad, we might not be either before too long.

[@Stevarooni]

@@RustyShackelfordOfficial no, it's just a $200 tax on every semi-auto rifle and standard-capacity magazine! And I'm sure _that_ registry will never close or be abused. 👍

[@Pcm979]

@Dan S I have nothing to do with that.

[@RustyShackelfordOfficial]

@@Stevarooni Thanks for putting my mind at ease. Now I feel silly for worrying. Now, if you excuse me, I have to visit my bank to get a 20 grand personal loan for...reasons. Or maybe I'll just take a boat ride. I'll have to be careful not to lose anything though.

[@Stevarooni]

@@RustyShackelfordOfficial F their rules. Define "infringe", Uncle Joe!

[@ryanspalding875]

Thank God they're continuing the XM16E1 I've been wanting an E1 style AR-15 ever since I was 7 years old, I'm 21 years old now! "We Were Soldiers" starring Mel Gibson really influenced my childhood!

[@rcairnut]

so glad I bought them all when I could.

[@jvleasure]

Very cool. I was in the market for one years ago when retro stuff was non-existent. I ended up getting a DPMS Panther Classic in 20" and put Vietnam furniture on it and that ended up being good enough for me. If I didn't have that, I'd be way into one of these.

[@jpanici]

Very cool guys, keep up the good work 👍

[@History_Coffee]

I hadn't been excited about ARs in years until these retros came out, and the quality is absolutely there on the one I own.

[@shooter2055]

Love my 601. It's just like the AR-15 (pre-M16) I fired at USAF basic in '73. Except for the furniture not being painted with gloss gray enamel during some rehab or other! :-)

[@retailwarrior1502]

I want to get an A1 clone with the 1/12 twist eventually, but I will wait for the 2020 prices to dissipate. I would also like to snag one of the colt retro scopes. Another clone I would love to see come to market would be the STG 44. I wish Hill and Mac would get their stuff together. I know they were having issues with suppliers but those rifles have been “shipping soon” for at least 4 years.

[@shawnr771]

Nice rifles. Cool retro look.

[@BamaPewPew]

October 2020, dang you kept this one in the vault while he said get it while you can

[@RustyShackelfordOfficial]

Not sure why Forgotten Weapons is even talking to this guy, none of these guns are French made lol

[@TheBigOne0305]

It's a bit of a stretch, but they were extensively used in (former) French Indochina ;)

[@bigtruckbrad]

🤣😎🤣

[@tomh.648]

02:18 - Is that a retro-looking 'M16' dissipator?! Man, I genuinely adore some of these (very good) retro rifles.

[@joet.s.6283]

I love the retro line, if only I could get one...

[@allenatkins2263]

I bought a BRN 10 when they first came out. A wonderful rifle, I'm sad they will not be making any more.

[@Ensigncolyer]

I built a BRN-601 this spring and its by far my most accurate AR. the only difference is i built mine with a 1-7 barrel

[@grandtheftavocado]

Waiting on the E1 to come back in stock! Credit card is here and ready to go.

[@Ryuko-T72]

The only Style of AR i'd actually want

[@kidwithanuke]

I built a gun out of the 605 upper earlier this Summer. I love mine. Shame they’re discontinuing it. I would like to get an XM177 or 601 upper next.

[@thatguyoverthere9634]

Really hope for some more 601 upper receivers and 605 barrels come out if the rifles aren't coming back

[@Lego-uq4py]

Sad to see the 601 with the green furniture is discontinued, I'd hoped to get that someday

[@billsummy2412]

AWESOME ! I would love to have one :)

[@AllAhabNoMoby]

Last time I was this early, there wasn't any trend to talk about how early I was.

[@lrkleeb]

Far more interesting than I expected! Great video! Keep it up Ian!

[@deputygunner]

I love my 605. I am happy I got one

[@paulbarnes954]

I think an XM16E1/M16A1 "special edition" that included an M7 bayonet and scabbard, green sling, etc. would be cool.

[@MultiRokusho]

I just want their m16a1 barrels to be in stock so I can finish my build.

[@SuomiFinn42]

Retro rifles has em, bought one about 20 minutes ago. 1:7 twist 20 inch pencil for an A1 clone

[@davidjrule66]

Brownells sound like a cool company.

[@oldscratch3535]

A greyish/purple anodizing would be awesome. At least the color I have in my head is awesome. It probably wouldn't turn out that way though. I also love the Russian plum colored AK furniture. I kind of want that for my AR.

[@maximummarklee]

Nice to see this update, but in reality Brownells or PWS still haven’t been able to tell us WHEN the BRN-180 Gen2 will be shipping. AND ALL 80% kits are OUT OF STOCK - much like almost everything we want to buy now. It’d be nice if these issues could have been addressed ... Since the FN SCAR’s patent is almost set to expire (17 years) maybe they can take that on for a cheaper knockoff that will be accessible to budget-driven shooters.

[@cammobus]

I'm Old when an M16A1 I carried in the 80's is considered RETRO .. like the Music I listened to is now ' Classic Rock '

[@nitroxylictv]

things 30 - 40 years old will always be retro, but you sir are ancient

[@charles_wipman]

Interesting chat.

[@TheKrieg45]

Still hoping their BRN16E1 comes back in stock.

[@GA-br8wj]

03:55 Hazmat team

[@ricksters11]

Still waiting on the xbrn-177 to get back in stock. I am afraid I may have missed the train on that one though, considering our current events! :(

[@classifiedad1]

I do believe the TDP for the M16 is available online, though certain components like the triangular handguards, the cylindrical slip ring, and the teardrop forward assist would probably need to be reinvented.

[@panzerabwerkanone]

I built my retro last year using one of their blem uppers and stock set on a Poverty Pony lower and original Colt 1:12 barrel. But hey that was last year! Where's my WWSD2020 lower Brownells!!!!!!

[@petesheppard1709]

Too many collectors fail to realize that the military could not care less about blemishes, as long as the rifle functions to spec. Soldiers use what they are issued, even if colors don't match exactly. I would be perfectly happy with a BRN-16A1 that has a 1-9 barrel.

[@timbaskett6299]

I can see why the -16A1 is popular. That is the rifle I was issued in boot camp, although I'm sure a new one would be in MUCH better condition. I can understand the economics. Example: I would like an En Bloc fed "scaled down" M1 Garand chambered in 7.62x39mm (No, not a Mini-30) but I doubt there are many that would.

[@josephhacker5358]

Love the info in this video and it's interesting what sells well and not so well. It is a bit distracting to have the background talking, I imagine this was an opportunistic recording though.

[@zbreeden7622]

I think its an interesting paradox of the retro market where things that are cool prototype parts and accessories are not reproduced because of lack of interest. However, the lack of interest is because no one has been able to see one.

[@parsecboy4954]

It's funny, if I had the money to spend on one of the BRN guns, the 605 is the one I'd want.

[@TJ-wg3ud]

I got a surplus A1 upper that Olympic was selling in the 90’s that has a pinned/welded muzzle break. I was told that is a legit M16A1 upper, I’m not sure if that’s true but I made a pretty cool retro AR with it.

[@tnhunts2759]

Roses are red. Violets are blue. Gibs me a Fallshirmjagergewehr 42.

[@Ulfstigandr]

Id love to see a repop 607 stock. Dont even have to do the whole rifle, just the stock.

[@stefanmolnapor910]

Check out SharkArms.com, he may have something, send him an email if you do not see anything, the owner is very helpful

[@matthaught4707]

I'd love to see the XM177E2 done with a permed faux-moderator on an 11.5" 1:7-twist barrel. That should be doable with COTS parts. I'd also love to see a 607 or 608, but those would likely be cost-prohibitive with all the proprietary parts.

[@DarrelWan]

Woah... I'm never this early before.

[@anonymousanglo1169]

Brownells should make a Chinese type 56 ak clone. Getting a milled ak is easy. Getting clone correct wood furniture would be less easy but rather simple. The folding spike bayonet would be significantly harder and more time consuming to work out, however it wouldn't add an exorbitant amount of money on to the total.

[@richhardie6897]

Great discussion, thank you. I did, however, have difficulty with the audio, particularly with the back ground noise. I know this was most likely a target of opportunity for you, but wanted to share feedback in the spirit of an AAR.

[@fgialcgorge7392]

Great video. Great interview. Totally honest, down to earth guy, I like that in a company. Will continue to spend my money there.

[@supersexyfatguy]

I have their E1 clone and love it, I want the proto but it's hard to justify the price of another retro rifle.

[@luger700]

With their BRN-180 I am surprised they won’t do an AR-18/180 retro rifle.

[@garrettdavis4471]

An xm177-E1 upper would be cool. I know you can get the parts for their E2 and just cut down the barrel but it would be nice if you could just buy one with a 10 inch barrel and skip the middle step.

[@MerihemXx]

It'd be cool if they did Delta Force XM4 Carbines. I think all they'd need is their NoDak recievers and CAR-15 furnature kits around an M4 profile barrel and they'd just put a black finish on it and call it done. Throw an Aimpoint 2000 on it and you've got yourself a SCUD-Hunter Carbine.

[@RockyZajThoj]

When will the m16a1 be back instock, been looking to grab one

[@5_qm610]

You should do unknown long slide/barrel pistols

[@ds4hdw869]

I used DAEWOO M16A1 in Korean Army back then early 90's. One day, we found a Colt M16A1 from Vietnam War in our rifle box. For the first time I realized that the color of the M16A1 is black because our DAEWOO rifle were grayish, bluish, greenish, Etc. Every M16A receivers had different color except black like the old Colt M16A1 we found. It was caused by lack of surface coating technique and Quality Control of DAEWOO Precision Company(Currently S&T Motiv). Chrome plate on chamber and barrel of M16A1? I do not believe they did well.

[@Frens03]

Would be cool to see weird versions available.. like the DOE carbine, the M231 or the Model 608

[@brucepaulson6279]

M-16 USAF Security Police issue. M-16 A1 minus the forward assist. Love to see that come out.

[@willlowery84]

A 733 SBR would be super duper rad!

[@Forests0fFantasy]

Would love to see some CAR15 "Scud hunter" or Black Hawk Down tribute rifles by Brownells

[@mustangkrillin]

I'm glad I got my 605 barrel when I did. They had already discontinued and sold out of complete uppers. Hopefully Brownells can keep the retro furniture rolling in. They were completely out last time I looked.

[@glockguru9]

So when is Brownells gonna make an M16 A1 buttstock with trapdoor?...

[@lekoro1]

WHAT WAS, WILL BE! WHAT WILL BE, WAS! sorry that title reminded me of something

[@509Gman]

Allot of this has happened before, all of this will happen again.

[@heybusdrivah]

Make a FAMAS! 👏

[@stuntmanmike37]

Something I'd love to build, a 605 upper on a KP-15 lower.

[@donaldenglish2352]

Will gray anodized A1 stripped upper receivers be available?

[@williamconway3237]

Has Brownells ever made a Colt 733 upper? I’d think that’d be a strong seller and easy to put together. The Heat/Black Hawk Down/retro vibe is strong with that one. I’d buy one right now.

[@franknbeanz147]

They mentioned that as a high requested model

[@williamconway3237]

@@franknbeanz147 Finally got to watch the video and see that they mentioned it. Awesome. I know that's an easy combination to reproduce but I'd love to buy a complete upper from a well known and reputable source.

[@pdalia]

1/12 twist then it can't shoot modern military ammo , basically SS109 or heavy ones . Love those early models and actually have seen many originals , there's a market for original ones in my country actually .. Vietnam era ones .

[@michelangelo644]

I don't know if I'm alone in this - but I think some guys like the lines of the retro stuff - but modern optics are so important for a lot of applications, and all the retro stuff anyone sells ALL has fixed carry handles. Which is cool - but I'd be curious how a rifle like the xm177 pattern, or the A1 pattern would sell in a flat top. I get it's not period correct - but I think it'd be pretty cool to be able to buy essentially a flattop, but an A1, or an XM177 in every other style. You could stick an optic on it easily, but still have the retro lines in every other way. I'd be curious how it would sell.