The Sea Kayak Problem Part 2: The Safety/Risk Issue

[@NickRayLifeAfloat]

It’s a huge subject you’ve neatly tackled. Risk and adventure are at the forefront of my mind as I write about my recent expedition. This quote resonates strongly for me at the moment. “Every person has a right to risk their own life for the preservation of it.” - Jean Jacques Rousseau.

[@AdventureOtaku]

That’s a great quote. Thanks for watching, and I look forward to reading your book.

[@Simon_W74]

I will also look forward to reading your book having just discovered your channel. Will the book cover your Scotland trip? If i see you on Mull I will pop over say hello.

[@JakkeLehtonen-Jagster]

Overthinking dangers… I had third season this year as a kayaker and I paddled this summer a bit over 1000 miles totally, alone all the time. I did 2 months on finnish archipelago - sea kayaking but the environment is very different on Baltic sea than what you guys have there; no tides etc. I was a bit nervous beforehand how I can handle wind, waves… and one very experienced and older kayaker teached me three things. First, keep your head always on middle line of a kayak. Second, only high and breaking waves can be a problem, but because you can edging and low brace you are just fine. Third, there is such thing as self-fulfilling prophecy - if you start telling to yourself ”this is horrible and I’ll be swimming at any moment” you will capsize and at such moment you must stop thinking, start paddling and remember how to keep balance… well, he was not totally wrong 😏

[@AdventureOtaku]

No, he was completely right. All those things are true. I would add, you are always safest while paddling forward, so when in doubt...PADDLE! and 2 months on the Finnish archipelago sounds amazing. Thanks for watching.

[@Richard-bs8xe]

Thank you for this episode. I am a safety conscious person as I paddle alone most of the time. PFD is a must at all times. I also carry a marine radio when in area's of boat traffic and a PLB for those out of the way areas I paddle into. I primarily paddle in the Tidewater area of Virginia. There are many different areas and conditions to paddle in and safety is always my main concern. People forget to take into account weather and their health conditions. You must plan for both to have safe and fun kayaking trip!

[@AdventureOtaku]

Thanks for watching Richard. I am about to start a series of Risk Management videos. I think you’ll like them.

[@rickymcdaniel7971]

I'm a whitewater kayaker. Though it's a different sport, a lot of things cross over. We never paddle without a PFD and a helmet. Always dress for a swim, in winter and early spring that usually means wearing a drysuit. Paddling alone should only be done of runs that you are very familiar with and are easy for your skill level. Most people never paddle alone. I've seen many people who just watch when a fellow paddler needs help. Paddler need to develop the mindset of doing what they can, as long as it doesn't put themselves in danger. If I'm on a difficult run, I make sure that I have people with me that I know are competent paddlers who will help when needed. If I have people in the group who are pushing their limits, there needs to be enough strong paddlers in the group to help if we have multiple swimmers in the river. One thing that I don't really understand about see kayakers; I've been at pool rolling sessions and seen sea kayakers practicing wet re-entrees. It seems to me that this time would be much better spent learning to roll instead. If you get knocked over by wind or waves and swim, there are more gusts or waves coming while you are trying the delicate balancing act of climbing back into your boat.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I work with and paddle with a lot of whitewater paddlers (though only on flat water, i dont do whitewater. ) and honestly I think the whitewater community is better at risk management, and in general a better stronger community than the sea kayaking community. Im not sure why that is, but that is what I saw living in NC which is very whitewater centric.

[@timwonser7246]

Nicely covered topic. It brings into focus a situation I put myself in 8years ago. I ended up calling for a rescue which in hind sight probably saved my life. Summed up:quanity does NOT equate to quality. Paddle,paddle,paddle,practice,practice,practice But be happy,savor,and enjoy!

[@AdventureOtaku]

Totally agree. When I paddle alone I have a plan for what I am working on in terms of skills.

[@fredlevel897]

I so totally agree with you and this applies to so many outdoor activities : scubadiving, sailing, mountain climbing, gliding, etc... Each of them come with their range of risks and it is the easiest thing to learn about them and apply the basic rules but it takes practice to learn how to properly use your gear and properly react when difficulties occur. I too exposed myself recently in extremely windy conditions while sea kayaking (my girl friend could'nt understand why I did that) I wanted to expose myself while benefiting from the presence of an instructor and a friend, so I could appreciate what it's like being in rough conditions and measure myself. Like you said, one needs to know his/her limits. Also, risk assessment evolve as you develop your skills

[@AdventureOtaku]

Exactly right.

[@Livinglifeat60]

Last fall I went out for a paddle in the late afternoon. The water temp was below 8 Celsius so I was dressed in a full dry suit with wool layers under the suit. I was alone but do have training for what I was doing and these conditions. I passed a canoe with a father and two young kids and not one was dressed for that kind of water condition or was wearing any kind of pfd. Also did I mention that where I was coming from there were 1 foot white caps and they were heading into those conditions. I don't think people understand the power of wind and water.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Yeah, they don’t But hopefully if they survive long enough they will learn.

[@AdventureOtaku]

.

[@armortodd5162]

Love “Type 2 Fun”!

[@AdventureOtaku]

It’s a great phrase!

[@flatheadfletch]

Loved this video. New subscriber. My two cents- sea kayaks are fantastic. I purchased many over the last ten years in search of the right one for me, all used of course. I have found that one must paddle often enough that all movements are done without having to think about them. If you can’t be on the water in whatever scenario without having to think about it, you shouldn’t be their. I started in the early 70’s kayak cruising. I go once a month or so but I find I loose ground in my comfort zone because I don’t go often enough ! I will retire soon, then I will relearn and develop those skills to where I don’t have to think about it. That’s comfort and safety !

[@AdventureOtaku]

I agree that you have to stay proficient. But isn’t it true of most outdoor activities?

[@philipoakley5498]

The little aside about being scared during a crossing reminds me of a pal's advice when mentoring/coaching/guiding others on a trip which was to "go talk sh*t" (rubbish) to those who might be nervous/overthinking about parts of the trip/crossing. When we are fearful the fight/flight style 'gripped with fear' responses take hold, even if the rest of the team is within a short distance (30ft /10m) you can feel very alone, so going and 'talking sh*t'/shooting the breeze with the other person removes that 'grippedness' because they can't both chat and be gripped. The body/boat/blade becomes more relaxed and flexible and the [passive] fear dissipates. Doesn't mean the hazard/risk has gone but active paddling is good paddling! Underneath that is the 'loneliness' problem of the 'don't know anyone else' paddler!

[@AdventureOtaku]

that's a great tip, in general just keep it chatty.

[@OkinawaWild]

Good stuff. The only thing I take exception to, and this is not a critique on you, but something I hear A LOT in the sea kayaking community, is "I have a PLB." In my opinion, a communications device should not be a factor in risk assessment. Before we ever use a PLB, we have already gotten ourselves into a situation that we aren't equipped to deal with and are now calling on someone else to come and clean up our mess. The ultimate goal of risk assessment is to keep ourselves out of that situation to begin with. It is not a replacement for knowledge and skills. A PLB doesn't make you ready for a given situation, and when factored into risk assessment, is simply shedding risk onto someone else. Using it in this manner can (usually does) lead to a false sense of security, which actually increases our risk. Before I leave the shore, my risk assessment always assumes that I have no way of contacting anyone, and will have to sort out any issues by myself. Cheers. Enjoying your content.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Oh I totally agree! And (I think?) I’ve done a video on risk assessment and am planning on doing one on this very topic. In particular the inreach crowd uses that device as a theoretical shield of protection. There is a tremendous lack of risk management and risk assessment going on because people feel safe because they have a device. Thanks for a great comment.

[@inyanmila6064]

This week's post reminded me of buddy of mine who was a commercial a fisherman from Gloucester, Mass. He told me they have a saying: “Out on the water, everything happens really slowly, until it's too late.” Chris Cunningham's book “Deep Trouble” is good starting point for thinking about sea kayak risk assessment, but I also agree with your sentiment that learning how to manage risk on big water cannot be acquired from a book. It is garnered wisdom that only comes from being on the water. It is not my preference, but almost always wind up paddle alone. As such, I've had to develop my own set of risk management guidelines, particular to my personality and skill set. I rarely get to push the envelope, because if/when the stuff hits the fan, it's all on me. I really wish there were more clubs. They pool resources to get instructors who know how to guide folks into spicier conditions in a way that lets paddlers intentionally go past their comfort zone, but is there for you if you need help. The subset of instructors I've seen who have that talent remind me of border collies.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Deep trouble is always in the NOLS library on kayak courses. Great reading and a teaching tool.

[@maryhenry3257]

These comments resonate. I would love to paddle and back country camp as a group, but I seem to almost always be going solo. At age 65 I’ll ask myself ‘if not now, then when?’ So I go. But I’ve gathered experience gradually, progressively, so that each next step feels ok. I research, plan, prepare, always have the gear and absolutely always create redundancies. Even then situations can occur because we mitigate, we don’t control. Experience, awareness and recognizing my present limits seem to be my best safeguards. Ultimately it is balancing fun, curiosity, quality of life with security and caution. I no longer have dependants, so I feel more free to make my choices and set my limits. Sea kayaking is a blast and I’m going to keep doing it until I can’t.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I agree 100%

[@onemondaynight]

I thought about that video a lot. I'm in the Atlanta area, and most of the kayakers I know are whitewater kayakers or rec kayakers. Many of them think of the sea as terrifying, while I find swiftwater to be the more dangerous of the two. (Of course, underestimation of threat is one of the biggest contributors to water fatalities of all kind). But if I capsize in coastal water, and I'm properly prepared with my gear, I will wet exit, float, and be able to signal for rescue with a VHF radio and locator beacon. If I capsize in whitewater, I can find myself pinned and dead in 3 minutes. Just stepping out of the boat in Class I + is a foot entrapment hazard. I dont kayak above Class II. I know people who kayak III and above, and in their circle of friends they lose someone almost every year.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Agreed. right now, as I type this I am teaching a WFA course with a world class white water paddler. We have different levels of comfort with the risk involved. Whitewater scares me.

[@HeadNtheClouds]

They have water in Atlanta?

[@AdventureOtaku]

He’s from western NC.

[@onemondaynight]

@@HeadNtheClouds Oh yes. In and near. The Chattahoochee flows past Atlanta, and there is whitewater on the Yellow River on the east side. Lake Allatoona, just northwest of Atlanta, is where they filmed "Ozark," and I paddle there. And we are only about two hours drive from Dahlonega in the North Georgia mountains. Lots of good swift water there.

[@onemondaynight]

@@AdventureOtaku it scares me as well. Something about rushing towards granite boulders with nothing between them and my skull but a piece of WRSI plastic!

[@par620]

OMG thank you so much for this video, liked, subscribed and will be sharing with my family and friends! I don't have your experience, but I just got passed my 20's "invincible" stage while enjoying recreational kayaking and I'm planning my next step towards sea/touring kayaking! I totally agree with planning and risk management, it makes me angry when people die because everytime so far I myself, as an intermediate kayaker (I also do whitewater), can instantly determine the cause of death and multiple ways they could've prevented it. If you ever find yourself in Quebec and wish to have a paddling buddy I'd be honored to join you! Cheers 🎉

[@AdventureOtaku]

Glad you enjoyed it. I’ll let you know when I head to Quebec…. I want to do a road trip to Gaspe, and would probably drive through.

[@MatthewGrosh-yn9ue]

I love that i have found this channel! I have subscribed. Would love to have you as a guest speaker at the Chicago harbor safety committee meeting

[@AdventureOtaku]

Thanks for subscribing. I don’t have immediate plans to be in Chicago but feel free to email me so we can discuss. BrettATadventureotaku.com

[@carllafrance5510]

I'm a scuba diver and at the mouth of the river at the bottom of lake huron on the Canadian side there is a log jam 30 feet down with a seasoning kayak jammed into it Always wondered how it got there ? Another time we were 5 miles off port Stanley in lake Erie this guy comes by solo in a kayak with a little sail following the old voyager route He started at soon st Marie came down lake huron camped on the shore and he was on his way to Montreal He was having a blast ! Oh yes he was wearing a pfd Have a great day !

[@AdventureOtaku]

You too, thanks for watching.

[@viktornemeth6241]

When I first capsized my fishing yak, I wasn't panicking at all. And the simple reason was, because I knew it will happen some time. The question is not if, the question is when it will happen. You need to be prepared. I kept my cool, because I had the equipment, knowledge and practice. Was back on the top within a minute.

[@AdventureOtaku]

and that's great, but so many people just never even consider it a possibility. Many people don't check the weather before going out.....

[@viktornemeth6241]

@@AdventureOtaku I'm well prepered for everything. Floating flashing VHF radio with licence Buoyancy aid Pump GPS watch with compass, barometer, weather warnings, local tide times. Thick Neoprene suit Safety knife Two lights Two floating fluorescent rods First aid kit with warming and cooling bags. Also space blanket. Tether for both kayak and paddle. Whistle with compass, light and mirror Route and ETA tracking app from the Royal Yachting Association which send messages to family if I fall behind schedule. Windy app for weather Going to gym almost every day. Exercising on balance ball with heavy weights. Rowing 10k on e a week. And top of this I use my judgment when it's unsafe, I stay on the shore. I see a lot of inexperienced guys around here, who thinks it's just a yak and paddle you need. I support the local lifeboats, so seen a lot. And the worst part of all of this, when I tell people my comedy on how I capsized my yak for the first time, they all try to give me advice, criticising my yak, and the way I fish. I wasn't even fishing at the time I was wondering on a pod of dolphins which was playing around me.

[@jakebrakebill]

when you un-strap your kayak and the wind blows it off the roof, you know it's going to be a fun day. then the crazy techniques you come up with, to get it back up on the roof and strapped. draw backs of kayaking alone.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Hey, for sure, transporting a sea kayak can be a pain in the butt - I think my situation is a little unusual as I have only seen one other kayak on the roof of a sprinter. Still worth it every time I get to park someplace amazing and put my boat in the water.

[@iviewthetube]

What is your thought on the 120 rule? The 120 rule is if the sum of the water temperature and the air temperature is below 120°F then wear a survival suit. I find temperature management very challenging in a drysuit when the air temperature is above 75°F.

[@AdventureOtaku]

That rule is used by a lot of organizations, when I worked for REI we used it - but they used 125 for some reason. I think it’s a great guideline but yeah, in extreme conditions it can be hard to manage. I have on rare occasions wore a dry suit with just shorts and t shirt under it, but that’s pretty rare. I am sure in Alaska I paddled on 70 degree days with 50 degree water, but in situations like that a lot of cold is moving through the boat…. Check out my videos about dressing for paddling and you will see sort of how I progress from shorts and t shirt through dry suit as conditions change.

[@philipoakley5498]

back with another observation: There's also a perception risk 'problem' between paddling in a small friend/peers group (3-4) and paddling alone. We get a great amount of psychological security when paddling with a peer group. There's a lot of "Four heads are better than one" in terms of noticing various issues, essentially eye's in the back of your head (that's good). But at the same time, you can get into the 'fat, dumb and happy' mode that big airline pilots get into where the downside risk of something going wrong creeps up on you and you fail to appreciate the failure cascade that can befall a peer group (everyone fails together, not so good). Meanwhile the solo paddler (unless very practised) will be nervous without that group support, making them less likely to venture out, and never get the experience of learning and extending the breadth of conditions that they can paddle in a managed safety/risk balance. Small paddles, in less favoured conditions, improves skills. (paddle in the rain, etc!) Awareness of the strengths and weaknesses of both paddling styles does help.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Yeah, there is a lot going on here in terms of risk. And in terms of pushing skills, or not, and in what conditions or not. It isn’t a simple subject.

[@Openguy23]

I’m in Australia and have been paddling for over 20 years, I am 63 years of age and I’ve always thought be safe with all the gear, I have paddled in rivers, dams & oceans. Never had a problem.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Sounds like you have done well then! Keep it up.

[@jackconner6200]

I work for a federal agency managing large hydropower projects and each project, event or activity requires a job hazard analysis to help identify risks and then identify mitigation actions in writing. Could be a valuable approach for those just getting used to open water kayaking.

[@AdventureOtaku]

It could, except the hurdle would be to get people to do it. I honestly don’t know how much RM your average paddler does…. Which is actually a good question….I’ll have to think on that.

[@qaannat]

My take is skills and judgment before kit. Get your roll, get instruction, know your limits, dress for immersion, practice out-of-boat rescues. VHF, flares, PLB, cell phone, etc are last resort options when everything else has gone wrong.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I totally agree, but most people don’t do this. Most people sea kayaking never get a roll. Most people never get instruction.

[@brendankayaks]

Awesome video as always, and I have a couple of thoughts. Do you have a risk assessment that you refer to when planning out a trip? I was given one at a leadership course last year that I’ve been using with club paddles this season and it’s been comprehensive but super easy to use and I’ve cancelled at least one paddle because the risk got too high for my comfort (wind plus other paddlers I didn’t know the skill level of). The situations with groups like the 9 foot kayaks or the couple that drowned I think what’s important to consider is that those groups simply don’t know what they don’t know. They don’t even realize that there’s that much danger, let alone how much or that they should prepare for it. Part of the challenge of the sport being so niche is conveying the importance of safety to those people. Also random note from the leadership course I took while I’m not consistent about it yet I was taught to check the weather forecast as the first thing I do each day, as a good way to get into the habit of always being aware of the weather conditions you paddle into.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Great points. In order… I have a one sheet (really, like half a sheet of paper that is laminated…) I think it’s called a “cockpit companion” that I use the format for on paddle days. It comes from NOLS, and I made my own version that is a little different for my book GO!. I don’t use a specific tool for planning. And honestly I rarely use the actual tool because it is so ingrained in my head. Totally, agree. Like the couple I saw at assateague. But you can’t walk up to them and say “hey, what you are doing is unsafe.” The best thing that can happen is they have a close call, and it opens their eyes and pushes them towards knowledge. I am a weather junky. I wear a barometer and even when I am not paddling I check weather a number of different ways a couple of times a day. I always do a weather check before paddling and then watch for changes while paddling. I am famous for paddling with groups and yelling out “what just changed!?” And it almost always refers to the weather. Thanks for a great comment!

[@JonasAlexanderson]

I have a feeling that there are more accidents in the car going to and from the kayaking trip. At a guess we have one fatal accident every three years in Sweden while kayaking (very popular in Scandinavia). How many fatal, or serious, accidents do we have on the road while transporting a kayak? Don't think there are any statistics about that but I consider the road trip a lot more dangerous.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Here in the US the coast guard keeps meticulous records of injuries and fatalities and if I wasn’t in the van in the shadow of the bay of fundy I could tell you. I think 16 fatalities in 2022? I think.

[@philipoakley5498]

Another thing to do is to test your PFD floatation. (Feel how good it is!) Get a bag of stone/bricks etc., and a deep container (e.g. a plastic waste/trash bin), fill with water. Weight the stones with a travel scales, lower them into the water and re-weigh, adjust stones to 5kg (11 lb) when under water (that's the 50N rating). Now tie the bag of stones to your PFD and try and sink it! Leave for an hour bobbing in the water (it maybe you waiting for rescue;-) Fish it out and think - "this thing could save me", and "keep my head and shoulders above the waves". And remember how heavy those stones were when out of water. Educational!

[@AdventureOtaku]

Honestly, that sounds like a lot of work. Can't I just float in it a couple of times a year?

[@philipoakley5498]

@@AdventureOtaku The float test includes 1 hour while I'm relaxing having a cup of tea. If you are the 'weight' it's a long cold wait to simulate the long cold wait for rescue. Many older PFDs become porous which a 2 minute test misses (you sink...). Also by doing it with specific weights you start to realise just how good, and necessary, they are. Otherwise it's a new PFD every 3 years (YMMV) because manufacturers aren't guaranteeing them ;-) That said, I just tested mine because a fellow coach said 'they don't make that model any more, is it safe, have you tested it?'. So I did ! ;-)

[@AdventureOtaku]

Okay… maybe I’ll turn it into a video…I have a couple of really old pfd’s I could test…. Okay, you got me. I’m on board

[@AdventureOtaku]

Wait, is there a reason you chose 11 pounds? Shouldn’t it be 15.5?

[@philipoakley5498]

​@@AdventureOtaku50N floatation is 5kg, converted to lbs is x2.2, so 11 lbs within a few percent.

[@Simon_W74]

As time has gone on people have become more risk adverse though they way were are managed in our day to day lives, sometimes without even realising it. Here in the UK we have seen so many changes to how risk is managed and how somethings aren't questioned, and just followed as it is the rules. I worked in one of the tightest controlled environments I have ever worked in and it still didn't stop deaths and injuries. In some cases it caused it as fellow worker had become to rely on what was in place that their own ability to judge risk had gone out of the window. At one of our sister sites we had a young lady killed because she though it was safe to approach a machine that was working, because she was wearing the correct safety gear required by the company. Rather then getting the operators attention, and then approaching and he failed in the fact that he thought everyone would wait till he saw them, and not checking what was behind him before moving the machine backwards. Then there is the pressure placed upon him to work as fast as he could. which meant that corners were cut. There is little these days in the way of self accountability which has been lost in part due to the nature of being sued if something goes wrong. Which has brought about a Health and Safety Culture that is someways is not great for our ability to judge risk in any given situation. There is nothing wrong with having safety in mind and put in place, but you also need to be able to judge risk yourself and use your own common sense. Take what safety equipment you need to keep yourself safe and if you need to, to help others depending on the environment your in. If you manage your own risk well enough you are more likely not to be putting others at risk if it goes wrong. I have noticed over the years that in some areas I am more risk adverse. Which normally takes the form of if it is really going to hurt then I may not do it as I have to look after my arthritic bones a bit more than I used to. In areas where pain is not a facture I just go for it, if I don't perceive any real risk. I also like a challenge if I am capable of being able to do things.

[@AdventureOtaku]

YES! That is what the whole discussion of the term “safety 3rd” vs “safety first” is so important. We have come to (and been trained to) think our safety will be taken care of by employers and experiences, when at the end of the day we have to take responsibility for our own safety. I did a video about it.

[@Hairygrump73]

Just getting caught up on all your videos so this one is a bit late. I live in an area where we don’t have a lot of “sea kayaking” (we’re landlocked) but we have a metric butt ton of high mountain lakes. High winds, cold water, quick changes in the weather, etc. It amazes me at the amount of people paddling these lakes in Costco pool toys or worse. You’re bang on the money when you said that this activity has a marketing problem. I think people don’t understand the difference between rec paddling on your local pond and getting into a situation where they need the skills and equipment that a “sea kayaker” employs. Someone needs to tailor some videos and material towards those who are making the jump and maybe don’t realize it.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I totally agree, the problem is if they don’t realize it they wont watch. A few years ago I did a video aimed at kayak fisherman. Explaining that I know their primary goal is fish, not paddling, but they are taking very heavy boats with a tendency to roll over and putting themselves in dangerous situations. I then pleaded with them to take a lesson. One lesson. No one watched it.

[@Hairygrump73]

Just out of curiosity, is this your only social media channel? Your production value is pretty good, understandable format, good quality vids, and relevant info, the lower viewership might mean you need to spread it out over some of the short format channels. People these days do not have awesome attention spans.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I am on instagram, and while there is an Adventure Otaku Facebook page I rarely use it, as the analytics are clear that it isn't driving traffic. Thanks for your kind words. I work hard to make a good channel....

[@steveeb9567]

Entry level surfskis address a lot of these safety issues. Also accelerates the learning curve because one need not know how to roll.

[@AdventureOtaku]

most sea kayakers don't know how to roll.

[@steveeb9567]

@@AdventureOtaku Exactly !

[@tommyrq180]

Perhaps the most misunderstood aspect of water safety is physical fitness. Skills matter, planning matters-lots of things matter and need to be integrated. But most people simply accept their physical fitness as a given and don’t do anything to improve it. Remounting a kayak, for example, takes a lot of strength, balance, and timing. I’ve seen people try and never get it. And they’ll never make it happen because they simply lack the fitness. They become a liability for any group they’re in. Of course, so does the person who is super-fit and takes too many risks. Or the person with a TON of time on the water who lost their discipline and appropriate paranoia. But fitness matters a lot and can be improved significantly. Just my two cents. 😅

[@AdventureOtaku]

I think you are right, and I am living with that right now. At 56, every year I have to work harder to stay in the same shape. I work really hard to stay proficient in skills im making plans for January to really ramp up my fitness, because I have too… and I have seen it in my students. I think the only thing I disagree with is saying it is the most misunderstood. You mentioned several others that are equally problematic, and I could probably come up with 3 others that are seriously problematic. To most paddlers, they think it is a super benign and relaxing sport and it can be. But when it goes bad, it goes really bad. Great comment, thanks!

[@alannorr]

I have found over the years, that the inexperienced paddler is the one not wearing a PFD.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Probably.

[@pikemaster1972]

Getting the time and being organised packing a pile of gear

[@AdventureOtaku]

I feel like (for me) both of those can be over come. It’s why I created my original gear list.

[@gadgetman_nz4092]

100% agree with you. I get questioned a lot when I go with a local sea kayaking group and I turn up in singlet an shorts, "Aren't you cold?". I run hot and can swim 2km+. My main problem a lot of the time is not out running them. I always use a PFD and we have practiced re-entry so they are not too worried about me.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Sounds great.

[@jerrys576]

The PFD saga is one we will never win. Everyone that has never "taken a swim" thinks I'll grab it off the kayak. As you know when that kayak goes over it happens in a blink of an eye. Even Superman would not get he PFD in time.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I may make this a video, this summer... Can you put a PFD on while swimming. There was a Canadian Coast Guard video that showed how hard it was but the last time I looked for it, I couldn't find it.

[@yakinsea]

Not true for everyone. The largest paddling club here in Oregon has a board member pushing for mandatory PFD usage for all paddlers for all paddlers all the time and on all waters as in state law. Having a very deep ocean paddling resume covering thousands of miles, I just didn't appreciate my causal summer flat water paddling in great weather on warm water to be saddled with the loss of the wonderful freedom of paddling topless, so to speak. I was challenged to capsize with my PFD in bungees on my rear deck. I chose to remount without the PFD on, then put it on while in the boat. It took 15 seconds. Next, I repeated with putting the PFD on in the water. It added about 10 seconds to my time. The key is to roll over once both arms are through the armholes, then zip up...super easy. I'm not superman, just a near 70 y/o dude who loves the freedom of paddling and left alone, untethered by one size fits all rules. That being said, PFD's do save lives. I was on a swiftwater rescue team for nearly 30 years, as well as dive rescue. A safety pet peeve of mine is the common practice of fat front pouches on PFD's. This raises the center of gravity of one trying to slither onto a kayak making it much more difficult to do without flipping the kayak over again during the remount.

[@AdventureOtaku]

@@yakinsea great comment I have a number of responses. First. Almost nothing is true for everyone. I don't think its a bad policy for a club to have rules on outings that say you have to wear a PFD - I don't necessarily think there should be actual legislation saying it is mandatory, though the seat belt analogy I use is a good one, I may change my mind on it - A club has to deal with a massive variety of skill levels and liability is always an issue. Unless they are complete jerks you could probably get a waiver to go topless in certain conditions. second. I think I could probably do it, which is why it is in the cue for me to make a video. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be encouraging people to wear PFD's 100% of the time. The data is clear. While you can die kayaking with a PFD on, it is far easier to die without one (to the tune of 85% more likely according to coast guard data), and most people can't retrieve and put a PFD on while in the water. Also, it's really bad for the flotation to be under bungies or to be sat on. And the real problem is this. When I lived in NC three paddlers bodies were retrieved in lakes, on calm warm days (all within about 18 months) in good conditions. All three of the boats and pfds were found first. If those three guys had been wearing PFD's they would be alive. its that simple. Third. I will concede that the pocket on the front of my PFD makes self rescue more difficult. It can get in the way. But there is no way I am buying the concept that the less than 1 pound of gear in that pocket is somehow raising my 170 pound center of gravity enough to make the boat more tippy. It is actually pretty close to my center of gravity. You would have a better argument with a helmet because it is so much higher, but again the weight is so low. Sorry, not buying it. thanks or a great thought provoking comment on a Sunday morning. I wish there were more like it.

[@yakinsea]

@@AdventureOtaku I am not against PFD's, but against legislating it for all situations. You missed my point. It's not the added weight of what is in your pouch, but the added bulk. Imagine a high jumper clearing the bar with an unnecessary bulky item between the jumper and the bar. The added bulk of a fat pouch means that to re-enter the paddler must move higher over the deck. This raises the center of gravity as one slithers upwards making it tougher to get onto the deck without flipping the boat. Also, this increases the likelihood of hanging up on a deck line or something. If you don't think a couple additional inches matters, try putting a two inch pad on your seat. This is a common surfski drill. Holy crap does it make a difference! At times I use Kokatat's rear pouch, if I want more things on my person. It flips around for easy access. On my longer ocean trips I'll stow my PLB, flares, extra repair items,etc here. On serious trips, one should ALWAYS have the PLB on the person. I also use Kokatat's Msfit PFD since it is one of the least front bulky PFD's with the added benefit of having the radio pocket offset just enough so that it doesn't interfere with remount. I also tether myself to my boat in serious conditions away from shore. I think this is at least as important as the PFD, which I would have on in conditions, as well. I have done numerous 20+ mile crossings; the last thing I want is to lose my boat. I am surprised that you think you could probably do it, but haven't tried. Not a a big deal, since you probably always wear your PFD. For safety, people should always practice for conditions a notch or two above what they expect to paddle in. Conditions can change in minutes. My friends and I practice rescue in surf up to overhead, including solo remounts, assisted re-entry, towing, etc. It can get pretty crazy, and one must be on constant alert to avoid getting caught between a wave and another kayak or kayaker. Thank goodness for lulls long towing lines. I found in big surf, I can easily hold on to my kayak by flipping it over. This brings the toggle under the surface and minimizes the waves impact with the rounded upturned hull with the stems underwater. When a lull comes, I flip the boat upright jam an unfeathered paddle under the bungees and remount directly into the seat, grab my paddle and lock in. I am not trying to minimize the risks by insisting on looser rules. The risks come from inexperience and thus lacking information to inform judgement and situational awareness. In my case, I have paddled seriously for nearly 30 years including paddling, post retirement, from Prince Rupert, BC to Mexico in segments, all on the outside, and all of the crossings including solo paddling from Prince Rupert to Port Hardy. I was on a swiftwater rescue team for 30 years at the fire department where I worked as well as the dive rescue team, and as a practicing paramedic responsible for pat. transport, not just first response. I was on mountain rescue for 10 years, and ski patrolled for 25 years. I have seen a lot of death both in the outdoors and in normal life situations. I get the feeling that you know what you are talking about, but I can't tell you how many times I have run across experts who get credentialed, yet don't have the experience to really know what they are talking about. I also have often seen these experts blurt out absolutes that conform to common dogma regardless of situation or nuance. I have noticed that the best skiers, climbers, paddlers, are generally not on rescue teams or in clubs. Those that I know find it grating after a while and quit, if they ever join in the first place. There are exceptions, of course.

[@AdventureOtaku]

@@yakinsea again, a lot for me to respond to. In reverse order because it is easier on my screen. Yeah, im not "credentialed" in part because ACA has continually loosened the actual requirements for "journeying' which I think is super important. I like to think I know what I am talking about, Ive been paddling professionally since 2002. Ive done Port Hardy to Bella Bella and Ketchikan to Skagway - not to mention a ton of mileage on the east coat. But most of my instruction is with beginners (probably 90%) and then 10% is other educators or long distance people who need help refining their stroke/dealing with an injury. I also a fair amount of trip planning consultation both paddling and "land based" trips. I didn't think you were trying to minimize the risk by insisting on looser rules, which is why I said the thing about your paddle club should make an exception for you in certain conditions. I also haven't had issues in bigger water holding onto the boat. I don't like tethers in general, an instructor of mine had a student get one wrapped around his neck in rough water. But I have a short tow in front of my cockpit, if I needed to... I could use that. On trying to put on the PFD I didn't think of it until last fall, and I would rather do it in warmer water. I think I could do it, but the Canadian Coast guard used to have a video of boaters (not paddlers) trying and it was pretty comical. When I couldn't find that video - which I needed for a video of my own - I decided I should try it. Finally, yes. I have done the two inch drill, but not in a surf ski. I did it last spring in Alaska in a seaward kayak and it was definitely tippier. BUT having done self rescue with my PFD and a PFD with no pocket, other than my current PFD making it a little harder to get it on top of the boat, onto the back deck (you have to get it higher so it doesn't snag) I didn't feel like the 2 inches or so it raised me made much of a difference. I didn't feel a balance difference. That said I have pretty good balance, others mileage may vary!

[@James-dq3jo]

On safety… I’m not going to say don’t do it. I will say to check the weather forecast and maybe don’t do it today, if the conditions aren’t good. I will also say to avoid starting out by doing a multi-day tour alone with long stretches out of sight of land in frigid choppy water with nothing but cliffs in the shoreline for miles in an area known for sudden squalls (i.e., Lake Superior). Don’t get me wrong there’s some great kayaking to be done out there. But you have to have more advanced skills (way more than just boat handling although that is very important), a high level of fitness, good equipment, common sense and some paddling buddies before trying out something like that. Without that it might not be certain death but it can certainly get very risky very quickly.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I think all of those are great risk management. Thanks for watching.

[@tommycheshire5508]

Good job.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Thanks brother

[@HeadNtheClouds]

What about sea monsters? 🥶😨

[@AdventureOtaku]

That is a concern….

[@harrydarlington6147]

Thanks!

[@AdventureOtaku]

Thank you!

[@Sebastian-lw1ei]

Sea kayaking (or any boating on open water) is more risky than sheltered water given all else being equal. There is no denying that.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Nope. There is no denying it.

[@georgewilliamssr5230]

It’s a sad commentary, that we live in a digital world. So many of our younger generation, and evolving older generations. Have fallen into the trap of virtual reality. Many people just don’t get out and connect with the real world. Nature is not bias. It doesn’t care if you’re skilled or inexperienced. But your experience level does factor in on if you have an excellent time, or a tragedy. Being stupid or taking reality for granted. Is an issue that can’t be taught out of. Arrogance is an issue that I’ve often ran into in the rec. paddling community. Not getting some training. Not wearing a PFD. Not having the gear for the prevailing weather conditions. And mostly, not accepting advice from others who know the area, and have the skill sets and experience. I’ve often found I was confronted with a hostile attitude. When trying to advise others about the conditions they are about to paddle into. And that the equipment they are taking out. Might not be the best option for the situation. A number of these individuals have ended up on the evening news. Which makes it look bad for ALL kayakers. In the eyes of the authorities. I don’t have the answers for this. And teaching paddling by me has all but stopped me. In a sue happy world, where people won’t take responsibility for their own actions. I’ve lost heart in passing on my 33 years of experience to the public. I pretty much just stick to family and close friends these days if training is needed or asked for.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you... There is also just a widening disconnect with nature in general. thanks for stopping by,

[@jackconner6200]

Thanks!

[@AdventureOtaku]

Thank you!