BSA A65 engine 'rebuild' fiasco.

[@thra5herxb12s]

The first rule after putting an engine back together is look in the oil tank to confirm the oil is returning. However, if it only returns the oil used during assembly, then the engine could still run dry after a few minutes. I always check my oil return quite often especially since I use a plunger pump which is always susceptible to microscopic bits of nothing, that could stop it from working . He took it to the right engineer in the end. I bet he comes back to you for all future work 👍

[@paulhenshaw4514]

Thanks, Dean, the damage had already been done by the time this machine reached me - there were a lot of small things wrong with it, including on the rolling chassis.

[@mikecartlidge5355]

Hi Paul the worst engine rebuild I have seen for many years was just before I retired from the motorcycle trade. A man brought his Triumph 250 Trophy in to where I worked saying the engine would not turn over and he had fully re built the engine. A quick inspection showed the valves in collision with the piston, lucky that the motor had only been turned over by hand and not the kickstart so the valves were ok. my view was if he has got the valve timing wrong what else is wrong in there. After a careful chat the owner agreed to let me fully strip the engine to see what had been done and I am really glad he did. The valve guides were that worn the inner and outer valve spring were binding, the cylinder had been re bored but an old piston with seize marks fitted, the lower end had one new crankshaft main bearing fitted while the other one was goosed. The crankshaft had been re ground but not washed off and blown clean with an air line before fitting the conrod and new shells so the new shells were scored but the journal cleaned up with a polish, lastly the crankshaft sludge trap was full to being blocked with goo. The owner had all the mishaps put right and after careful running in he had a good motor that would stay together.

[@buxvan]

I did a similar cockup with my 1970 royal star in the early 90's. I fitted an oil filter kit to "double" my engine life. Problem was, I connected the filter pipes into the gravity feed from the oil tank & not the pumped return. Did 35 miles before the nasty noises started. Whoops, engine rebuild required. It's funny now, but at the time I was pretty depressed. Still own the bike though!!

[@exb.r.buckeyeman845]

I did exactly the same thing on an ex Army G3L Matchless, 1949 350. Took the engine out to clean and paint everything, put the motor back, got the two identical oil piped crossed, took the bike over the fields ran it for the afternoon, when it seized up after 3 hours of use. We all sat down moaning about the bike, when it cooled down it started again, but I was suspicious and checked the return, then realised my mistake. I was 15 at the time but learnt a valuable lesson.

[@zuzupetals1999]

When my SR was rebuilt, I removed the spark plugs, grounded the mag and walked the bike around in gear until oil came out the return in the tank. You could just kick it over and get the same results, but this was easier. This insured that the oiling system was full (and everything was connected properly).

[@nigeljohnson505]

I've just noticed the oil pipes have a herringbone pattern on the outside. Rolls-Royce Shadows and Spirits used that sort of pipe for all the hydraulics and the recommended change interval is around 8 years. These are possibly original by the looks of it Paul.

[@satanssurfer5965]

Shame such simple errors can knacker an engine, some people shouldn't be allowed near tools and bikes unsupervised.

[@paulhenshaw4514]

I couldn't agree more!

[@roythearcher]

It always surprises me that how a simple mistake like this can utterly destroy an engine however the loost cap nuts and mismatched caps is unforgivable for someone who called themself a "restorer"! It also surprises me that the manufacturers of the bike don't put a colour band on those oil lines to help identify them with a corresponding colour mark on the stub they connect to as a simple way of avoiding the problem. Granted, they are probably unlikely to be the original lines but there's a solution....

[@johnmcdyer7297]

This is why I always do it myself can’t find a decent motorcycle mechanic anywhere although they are out there somewhere no offence to you thanks for posting

[@rcnelson]

Unnerving how a small, understandable mistake can wreak havoc.

[@Coltnz1]

R C Nelson Which is why you need to know what you’re doing........

[@paddyglenny]

No really- if he'd got the oil pipes the right way round, the motor would have blown up anyway when the loose big end caps fell off.

[@mikehome6137]

Wow...not like there isn't a ton of literature out there telling anyone that bothers looking it up where each line should go, let alone looking for return into the oil tank which was my usual check after starting.....never could tell when the old pump stopped working unless you looked.

[@tombobb]

wow.. I wonder how long it had run in that condition. Interestingly the early c15 and b40's with distributor the oil pipes exit parallel and from the side points , 65 onwards ,they cross over. One to be aware of.

[@SteveLeaver]

A friend of mine rebuilt a Triumph Bonni Using a well known famous third party brand manual (beginning with H) which showed the oil pipes wrongly in the diagram - he went off down the road and it seized up. 👎🏼

[@hermangibbs8163]

Amazing. Thanks Paul.

[@paulhenshaw4514]

My pleasure!

[@markandrewberry]

I made the same mistake, mixing up the oil feed and return lines, following a C15 engine swap several decades ago. How could I be so stupid? Well, the 'points-on-side' and the 'distributor' engines have their pipes the opposite way around!

[@ericellquist7007]

A question for you, if you don't mind? I am reassembling my BSA A65 motor and have an issue that I cannot find an answer to anywhere. I have two shop manuals, and neither seems to address it, and there don't seem to be any dealers around any more... the thing is, ilI measured the big end rod diameters, measured the crank diameters, ordered new shells, torqued the nuts on the rods to the proper specification, and the rods seem to be awfully loose. I can slide them side to side perhaps a 1/16th of an inch. Also if I grasp the small ends I can rock them slightly side to side. In other words they're loose enough to describe a slight arc parallel to the crank. Can this be normal? Does the oil pressure combined with the heat of the motor tighten up this minimal gap? The few mechanics that I know don't seem to know... thanks, Eric

[@paulhenshaw4514]

Hi Eric, it is quite normal to find the conrods behave as you describe. Straight VERTICAL play is what you don't want, although 1 or 2 thou of that isn't the end of the world - bear in mind any oil for the pistons and bores has to escape past the big ends to reach them, so you might have nothing to worry about.

[@ericellquist7007]

Thank you Paul, it's good of you to respond. I've been hesitant to proceed further until I knew for sure. I would expect a necessary cushion of oil, and some heat expansion to tighten things up some. The motor is an older Spitfire Hornet with a Thunderbolt top end. It came in a nickel plated, brazed together, chrome moly flat tracker frame. I had never seen another one like it, but I'm told they were common in the sport. The swing arm is actually adjusted at the frame for tightening the chain, and adjusting rear wheel alignment. I installed a Boyer Brandson ignition, a Mity Max electronic module, an Anti-Gravity lithium ion battery, and a rebuilt Honda single disc front end to improve the stopping. It has an inline oil filter, Hagon shocks, and a pair of semi-knobby tires. My intention is to use it for exploring the back roads around my home. I'm hoping that I can get it put back together now, and ride it again before the snow comes. Anyway, thanks again, I really appreciate the help. I was at a standstill since last spring. Eric

[@chrisjohnson4165]

It's worth pointing out that most of these old conrods are probably oval by now. The reason being that at full revs the pistons weigh about 10 tons when they reach the top of the stroke, stop dead and return 6000 times per minute, and there's only so much punishment the hiduminium end caps can take. If you take them to a good engine reconditioners, they can restore to size, and also check for parallelism with the little end.

[@frankie5341]

Met a guy in the IOM classic gp, just had a 72 bonneville rebuilt brand new and they left the ball bearings from the back of his oil pump, no real return to the tank and such a hot engine kept cutting out from carbs overheating and he asked for help. One lad took it a part and showed him said he get the little ball bearings for him, he said no it's all under warranty. Did it rattle and smoke by the end of the week. This in 99 and the the bike was from green something or the other.

[@AA-69]

THESE CLOWNS NEED NAMED AND SHAMED IF THEY ARE RUNNING A BUSINESS SELLING THIS SHITE 😠😠😠

[@paulhenshaw4514]

I know, and I know who they are and couldn't agree more, and I've had a couple of their 'restorations' brought here needing attention by different customers, but with how things work in this world, I could be sticking my own neck on the line by naming them!

[@bigred8438]

I am surprised that the timing side main end wasn't replaced with a roller bearing when they did the rebuild.

[@paulhenshaw4514]

The timing side bush is fine, if of the correct specs and fitted carefully. I rebuilt this engine and a few others using timing side bushes and some original engines have run up high mileages before needing any attention. I recently rebuilt an already converted to roller TS bearing A65 engine and the crank still needed a regrind and new big ends.

[@grahamseward1388]

Nothing wrong with the timing side Bush, it's plenty good enough, I've done 1000's of miles on my A65's and had 2 now, maybe if you are thrashing all the time or going 800cc and above but a phosphor bronze Bush with take a lot of hammer !

[@bwma]

Really must have been a hack! Tube size is different so it should be hard to screw that one up. I feel sorry for all the British bikes that have been totaled by half ass mechanics.

[@grahamseward1388]

That's not easy to do as the oil lines are different bores and if you use the proper lines and clips it's hard to get it wrong

[@paulhenshaw4514]

Someone managed to do it.

[@frankkemble2103]

Whenever I rebuild a motor, I always triple check the lines and then spin the motor with a drill to prime the lines before I actually start it. Probably would not have helped in this case though judging by what had been done to the motor.

[@paulhenshaw4514]

This bike came to me just for a 'service' because it sounded 'tappety'. As it turned out, the whole bike was in a hell of a state - even the wheels were buckled and needed truing. About the only thing I didn't touch was the swingarm - everything else needed some degree of attention, even though the owner had bought it in 'restored condition'.

[@frankkemble2103]

Oil pump was running dry too so that might need replacing also.

[@paulhenshaw4514]

Although the oil lines were crossed, oil in the tank was reaching the pump scavenge side, but getting turned back, so maybe it was getting a small amount of lubrication. I stripped the pump to check and it was ok.

[@brockett]

When you add mismatched conrods, to loose conrod nuts and misfitted oil pipes there is good evidence that the mechanic was/is working beyond his/her skill and is therefore defrauding the customers.

[@justbreakingballs]

No mechanics done that

[@danb.3397]

BEWARE PEOPLE of "mechanics" who say they know it all. Check their credentials and how they are viewed by real pro's.

[@josesanchezmolina801]

Tengo una BSA 650 con bielas dé aluminio (SI)

[@danamuise4117]

why the hell would they design it like that?

[@flyingmerkel6]

There's an old saying, "Give an Englishman a piece of metal, and he'll do something stupid with it."

[@Richard-pe4cx]

@@flyingmerkel6 your comment is very disappointing and very unhelpful

[@flyingmerkel6]

@@Richard-pe4cx I've owned English cars and bikes.

[@flyingmerkel6]

@@johnzenkin1344 No, and damn few people have. It takes a lot of effort and money for the English to produce a decent car. I will give props to the current iteration of Triumph. Grandpa had a Rolls. His classic words was that it was a triumph of craftsmanship over design.

[@flyingmerkel6]

@@johnzenkin1344 Typical Brit, had to re-do your comments a few times until you gave up. I love British cars and bikes for what they are, not what people pretend they are.

Surprising how often that happens. Do you only use shelves when the floor is full ? Lol.... I used to ask my ex-wife the same thing. Have you got a sister?

[@paulhenshaw4514]

Yes and yes!