BTR#22 The Jensen Speakers Upgrade - Vintage

[@BobsToneReview]

Don't miss the second part! BTR#23 kzbin.info/www/bejne/nobSXqZ4bK6kbKs The Jensen Speakers Upgrade - Modern

[@TheGuitologist]

Cool video. But you forgot Cerwyn Vega speakers on some 70s Fenders, and Eminence on later Fender stuff. Carry on! ;)

[@BobsToneReview]

Thank you Guitologist! The focus is on the "vintage years" (until the early 70's); the speakers you mention came later, in fact Eminence is a filiation of CTS

[@pharmerdavid1432]

Interesting and insightful video as usual, thank you sir - appreciated. Your opinion about the Italian Jensen speakers is different from others I've heard. According to what I've learned, the parts used in the Italian Jensen speakers are not interchangeable with Chicago Jensen speakers, while Weber's versions of those classic speakers (his favorite versions of them) use parts that are interchangeable with the original Jensen speakers. Ted Weber (RIP) stopped using the same designations the new at the time Italian Jensen company also used, because he didn't want his speakers confused with their speakers, which he thought were inferior to the original Jensen speakers (a common sentiment). Not that he was disparaging the Italian speakers, the other speaker manufacturers speakers weren't as good either, Jensen used tighter tolerances in the voice coil cap, as Weber also does supposedly. I wish the Italian Jensen company hadn't added the word "vintage" to their speakers, because now when people talk about them and say "vintage Jensen" speakers it confuses things, which seems to be by design. I believe some of the new Italian Jensen speakers are better than others, and they seem to be getting better with experience from the learning curve, plus some respected amplifier makers are using them. I've seen more positive opinions about the Italian Jensen speakers lately, but one of the criticisms I hear is they are very bright and take a long time to break-in. The Jensen speakers Fender chose for their new Deluxe Reverb reissues - the C12K, sounds pretty bad in those amps according to amp techs like Lyle at "Psionic Audio", who's opinion I respect - he said almost any other manufacturers C12N type speaker would sound better. On the other hand some great guitar players use the stock Deluxe Reverb reissues with C12K speaker and make them sound spectacular, so ymmv as they say! I had an Italian Jensen P12N in a hand-wired Deluxe Reverb which sounded really good - much better than a C12R did, but a Weber 12F150 (C12N clone) I replaced it with sounded so much better in that application. Speakers that sound bad in one amp can sound wonderful in another amp, and visa/versa. I'm somewhat crazy about speakers and have quite a few, just added a couple Jensen "Vibranto" models today (what brought me here): an EM 1220 and EM 1202, which are very different from each other. Jensen offered a lifetime warranty on their final speakers, so maybe they knew their company was about to disappear (?), because a lifetime warranty on speakers that WILL wear-out doesn't make sense otherwise - no? The EM 1220 is designed for bass, rated 100 watts, with 28 gram ceramic magnet, so it's going into my 1963 (?) Ampeg B12X fliptop portoflex, so I can play bass and guitar without blowing the speaker. It also has a high frequency horn and external 2 x 4" cab for the reverb and tremolo, so it won't be too dark sounding with the "bass" speaker. The B12X currently has its original cone C12N speaker, which I'll cherish at lower volumes in one of my older Gibson or Ampeg amps. The EM 1202 is designed for guitar, rated 60 watts, with 16 gram ceramic magnet, while the regular Chicago Jensen (I have to say "Chicago" instead of "vintage" Jensen to avoid confusion) C12N is 25 watts, so this version has a higher wattage rating, possibly because it's voice coil former isn't paper like the regular C12N (?). Another benefit of buying a Vibranto version of old Chicago Jensen speakers is they are more likely to still have their original cone that hasn't blown than the older Jensen models. It's hard to beat an old Jensen speakers in old American amps, which were voiced for those speakers, but as they say - ymmv.............cheers!

[@BobsToneReview]

Hello David, thank you for your kind words, I'm really happy that you like my videos! "According to what I've learned, the parts used in the Italian Jensen speakers are not interchangeable with Chicago Jensen speakers, while Weber's versions of those classic speakers use parts that are interchangeable with the original Jensen speakers". I absolutely confirm that. That's why Weber parts are manufactured in Inches while Jensen parts are manufactured in mm, which of course is the standard for European industrial machinery. In fact, I had to buy recone kits from weber to recone a couple of vintage Fender 10" speakers. The contemporary Jensens are optimum speakers, definitely among the best reissues available today, but I would never dare to say that they are exactly like the vintage originals from the 1950's. "I wish the Italian Jensen company hadn't added the word "vintage" to their speakers, because now when people talk about them and say "vintage Jensen" speakers it confuses things" Unfortunately that applies to any vintage reissue on the market; Gibson and Fender first : ) I think that speakers with different magnet size and material should not be really compared. Like you say: "Speakers that sound bad in one amp can sound wonderful in another amp, and vica/versa"; I totally agree with that. "Jensen offered a lifetime warranty on their final speakers, so maybe they knew their company was about to disappear (?), because a lifetime warranty on speakers that WILL wear-out doesn't make sense otherwise" Ha! Ha! Good point : ) Jensen is a subsidiary of SICA which, as far as I know, it's a long established company. Best wishes with your speakers, I'm sure they'll do a great job for the next 100 years : ))

[@middle_pickup]

Utah's are underrated. I would keep one in there for micing variation. Also, modern Jensens do not sound like vintage ones at all from my experience.

[@BobsToneReview]

Good point Middle Pickup, that makes sense.

[@Sunrayman123]

When you played the distortion section, the UTAH'S sounded much deeper, richer and fuller. The Jensen's were light, tinny and shrilly albeit "clean".

[@BobsToneReview]

It's a matter of taste after all Sunrayman; While I like the Jensen C12-N's I might agree with you within a certain extent for the Tornados. The Utah's may lack in headroom, if you consider that it's a Twin! Also, as mentioned in the final part of the video, we should take into account the break-in factor, which plays in favor of the Utah's, especially as far as "Depth" is concerned.

[@pepuletrz]

i have a set of the jenson 220's in my heathkit cab with a fender hotrod as the head it sounds amazing not sure what you mean.

[@robertdurrwachter]

EXCELLENT!

[@BobsToneReview]

Thank you Robert, I'm happy that you enjoyed

[@robertdurrwachter]

@@BobsToneReview I have a 68 with Utah speakers.........do you think it has the AB763?

[@BobsToneReview]

Hello! If it does not have those weird thin black vertical lines on the control panel, it very likely has AC568 circuit. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZi9dYWNl9-raqM

[@HamzaJamzaFamza]

In my 1980 "Fender 75" the original 10 kg speaker seems to be made by "Pyle" ...maybe from the late 70s. I upgraded to a Jensen Tornado Stealth 100, and realized I have a beautiful sounding amplifier with 6 spring tube driven reverb! I thought the amp was maybe broken or horrible sounding before... what a difference. I never knew how big of a difference a speaker can make. Unbelievable! Great video and information!!!

[@BobsToneReview]

Thank you for sharing your interesting experience Hamza and thank you so much for your kind words. Please feel free to subscribe the BTR channel for more : )

[@rolandoo002]

Perfect information. Thank you! How many Watt had the Jensen in 60s Blackface Amps? Thx

[@BobsToneReview]

Thank you for your kind feedback Roland! It depends on the models. Deluxe Reverb had C12R or C12Q speakers, respectively rated at 25W and 35W; Twin Reverb had 2 X C12N speakers, typically rated at 50W each. You can refer to this interesting link for a complete chart: www.jensentone.com/tone-chart - Please feel free to browse among the other content of the channel and keep in touch! : )

[@rolandoo002]

@@BobsToneReview Big thank you for the detailed answer :D

[@marcmcshane]

excellent. it's crazy how a new set of drivers will change an amp entirely. 👍👍👍

[@BobsToneReview]

Sure Marc, yet it's a quite underrated mod when compared, for instance, to pickup changes or stomp box pedals.

[@marcmcshane]

@@BobsToneReview absolutely!i have a few heads i like and then i have a few cabinets with different drivers that i can pick and choose depending on what i'm looking for. massive differences in character. they all make the amps feel completely different too.

[@Doug5524]

excellent, really top-notch information looking forward to the next Video, thank you

[@BobsToneReview]

Thank you Doug!

[@benitorossi9380]

hi Bob, that's really interesting

[@BobsToneReview]

Thank you Benito! I'm happy that you enjoyed the video, please feel free to subscribe the channel for more! : )

[@thorinbane]

the reissue sounded just a bit more musical.

[@BobsToneReview]

Thank you for your comment Thorinbane, I agree with you.

[@chrisqueen933]

Great historic revelation with sound samples.

[@BobsToneReview]

Thank you for your kind feedback Chris, and thank you for joining our community of guitar-friends! : )

[@TheChadPad]

I love the Oxfords though! To me, that IS the sound of Surf! Those in a '63 Fender Vibrolux will give you the urge to hop on a surfboard and cut the waves

[@BobsToneReview]

Ha! Ha! That really sounds exciting! : ) I thought that JBL would be the first choice for surf, but I'm sure that a pre-CBS Vibrolux with its original speakers will rock in any contest!

[@TheChadPad]

@@BobsToneReview They both sound sick

[@sallucido3249]

Excellent video for someone looking for back story and history of speakers. Jensen's are always the best bet in most amplifiers, especially Fender, Ampeg, Gibson and Supro. I like these Jensen C12N's a lot but if you want bigger, tighter bass, go for the P12N's.

[@BobsToneReview]

Thank you for your feedback Sal, please feel free to subscribe to the channel for more!

[@JensenSpeakersVideos]

Hey Sal, always great to ready you! The P12N is an awesome speaker... hard to beat those celans, with a tweed-style amp. In this case, the point was to focus on a more "period correct" or "vintage correct" speaker for a 1968 Twin, and this the C12N came into play. Wait for what's coming next... :)

[@davidbuzzin426]

👍🇺🇸❤😁VINTAGE (more sag , compression, smoothness, natural tone & feel)

[@BobsToneReview]

You are right David. In fact, as I mentioned in the video, my point was getting more headroom, definition and clean tone at higher levels which means less sag & compression. Of course it's all a matter of taste and fields of application rather than "vintage Us" Vs. "new European" : ) Also you should take into account the break-in factor, as I mentioned at 14:12 Please consider subscribing to the BTR channel to keep in touch!

[@Caziolin]

Ciao Bob!!!!! Grande,grandissimo! Ormai aspetto con ansia i tuoi video,perle di conoscenza,passione e dedizione!Non son riuscito a vederlo subito e a scriverti per farti sentire il mio supporto,però appena è arrivata la notifica ho subito messo mi piace😁continua così,sempre meglio!!!ps:son morto dal ridere quando ho sentito Oxfart🤣🤣🤣devo ancora ascoltare con le cuffie il video,perchè non capisco bene la differenza fra i coni,non mi sembravano così male gli Utah. Grazie per i tuoi video,non smettere MAI,mi fai e ci fai conoscere mille e più cose,sei un pozzo di conoscenza e sei supportato da collaboratori seri e professionali come te.Veramente,traspare tutta la tua passione nei video!spero a presto,anche se so che per realizzare video così ben fatti non ci si mette 5 minuti!ciao mitico!

[@BobsToneReview]

Grazie grazie Lorenzo, ormai ti sei guadagnato la poltronissima di aficionado number one! : ) Il tuo supporto conta davvero tanto per me, e ti ringrazio della fiducia del tuo "like ex ante" o "a prescindere" : ) Infatti, la tua impressione non è affatto errata, gli Utah sono pur sempre altoparlanti vintage di tutto rispetto, non è facile eguagliare il calore e la cremosità che un altoparlante vintage può aver maturato in mezzo secolo di storia... tra l'altro conservato sempre in studio e quindi in condizioni ideali. Sul Twin però si ha modo di apprezzare apertura, definizione e headroom dei nuovi Jensen che hanno a mio giudizio un valore aggiunto in termini di versatilità ed efficienza. Sicuramente dopo qualche annetto di utilizzo anche loro acquisteranno maggiore morbidezza e qualche asperità nel suono andrà fisiologicamente a smussarsi.

[@Caziolin]

@@BobsToneReview ti ringrazio!!!!

[@heinerperdomo]

I have a 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb that didn't come with the original speaker, the Oxford 12k5-6 so I replaced the crappy one it came with, with a modern C12Q...but I wanna improve the sound to the best possible speaker but I wanna make it a Vintage Speaker of the same era. So, what speaker do you recommend that I get for my 64 Deluxe Reverb? I was thinking a Vintage Jensen C12N. What do you think?

[@BobsToneReview]

Excellent choice Heiner! I also love the Alnico Jensen P12N soundwise but the Ceramic C12N is more indicated for a period-correct restoration. Congratulations on your great amplifier!

[@paolospadaro]

Bravissimo, spero parlerai presto di pickup; non mi dispiacerebbe neanche un video dedicato alle archtop, quelle buone!!! Complimenti per la passione che ci metti.!!!! Saluti 🎸🎸💪💪💪

[@BobsToneReview]

Grazie Paolo, sarà un piacere accogliere i tuoi suggerimenti, spero di riuscirci presto!

[@zzubuzz]

Did Peter Green's Fender Deluxe have the Utah speaker?

[@BobsToneReview]

Hi Zzbuzz! I'm afraid that your question is really hard to answer...

[@zzubuzz]

@@BobsToneReview While waiting I got a OUIJA board, Pete say's it didn't really matter, the tone was from his mind and spirit, to his fingers and finally to his '59 Les Paul.

[@BobsToneReview]

@@zzubuzz sounds pretty wise! ...even though: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5ynqYejosp0m6c

[@michel333100]

Hi Bob, I have an original 1965 Fender Blackface Bandmaster with two Utah speakers. The amp is 40 watts. Would you happen to know exactly how many watts each are these speakers that came original to the amp. They don't have the Utah sticker on the back of the magnet. I'm thinking that they must be at least 25 watts each. Those Utah speakers you have must be higher powered because, wasn't your amp at least 80 watts? Please let me know. Do you find the Utah speakers any good compared to today's speakers? Thanks Michael Newell from Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada

[@BobsToneReview]

Hi Michael, thank you for your kind interest! I'm afraid I can't help with precise or documented information about your Utahs. Yes, the Twin is 85 Watts so the speakers should have higher power rating there. As I mentioned in the video, the Utah are often considered the least desirable among the speaker options in vintage Fender amplifiers. This doesn't necessarily mean that they cannot fit your needs or that you can't get cool sounds out of them. And yes, as the test recording stands to demonstrate, still they are respectable vintage speakers! I think much depends on the kind of instrument you use and the tone you are after as possibly they might result too compressed with more powerful signals or higher volumes. In that case you may appreciate a more efficient speaker giving more headroom.

[@JensenSpeakersVideos]

Hi Michael, lovely amp of yours!!! It's hard to tell the exact power rating without seeing a picture (and won't be easy neither with a pic...). you can try the "google way", keying in all the codes you may read on the frame and/or on the back of the cone membrane. As a very rough guideline, look at the speakers from a side, and try to measure the diameter of the voice coil former, that is the point where the cone membrane meets the spider suspension, on the bottom side of the cone. If your speaker will at least measure 1" in voice coil diameter, you should be in the 15-20 W range. Be careful, ,obviously, the speakers are quite delicate in that area. But you should be able to determine if the VC will be bigger or smaller than 1", that is what you really need to know. The bigger the voice coil, the higher the power handling, all else being equal. In the "Jensen world", the first letter indicated the magnet (C-Ceramic, P-AlNiCo, N-Neodymium), the number indicats the size (6, 8, 10, 12, 15), the last letter (or suffix) indicates the voice coil size, thus the range of power handling: V (1’’ Low Power), R (1’’ medium power, 25W), Q (1’’ ¼), N (1’’ ½), K (2’’). Therefore the C12N is a 50W, with 1 1/2" voice coil. Hope this helps! don't hesitate to get in contact with us, in case of need!

[@JensenSpeakersVideos]

Thank you Bob! Very nicely done, great information, cool tone and playing!