Are All Atlus Games Just SMT?

[@bubbletea_]

i made a more in-depth analysis of metaphor here if you're interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5WzgZePqbt8rKc

[@TheJaredPunch]

Jack Frost is Atlus’s mascot. Give him a break.

[@ay_jayfr]

Absolutely agree

[@VampirePrinceKRS]

he probably should have been in Smash Bros instead of Joker.

[@raheemaslam7363]

@@VampirePrinceKRSor at least include him in the moveset

[@donaldtrump2728]

@@VampirePrinceKRS there wasn't even a single demon in the game

[@daveraschke]

I love him in jack bros

[@rafaelluciano5596]

Never forget that the Super Mario franchise is a Donkey Kong spin-off. Ain't nothing wrong with that

[@stylishsubstance]

Yeah calling mario a spin-off is weird to me. Sub series is a term that we fans need to adopt

[@johnlawful2272]

​​@@stylishsubstanceall thanks to pop eye just like how gta came from kirby.

[@tricky2317]

@@stylishsubstanceyeah nahhh. No reason to be upset or change it.

[@Ivyrigs]

​@@stylishsubstance why do you people treat correctly calling a game a spin off like it's a slur 💀

[@smartstuf1026]

@@tricky2317but the guy in the video makes a good argument as to why it’s weird to call persona a SMT spin-off when it technically is

[@gary.420]

Atlus is like an artist, they clearly have themes that inspire them to make art, and their style is recognizable, but like every good artist they like trying new things, they slowly reinvent themselves, until before you know it, they made something entirely new. It's just that avid fans can still see the old brushtrokes in the new works. Kinda like Picasso, before he reached cubism, he had a blue era, then a pink era, and even after cubism he kept reinventing himself.

[@nr2676]

Yes Atlus games are now just Megaten. The only one exception was Etrian Odyssey, Maken X, Despiria, Trauma Center, Catherine, Baroque, Radiant Historia, Stella Deus and Growlancer series.

[@phillemon7664]

Metaphor confirms that EO is a part of the Megaten multiverse with the whole Virga Island dungeon situation. Maken X’s demon blade works similarly to demons in SMT in a way. Trauma Center is legit unconnected besides the Doi character art. Despiria is a legit reimagining of SMT that I’m surprised they dropped entirely. Catherine is Megaten but is a virtual/fictional world (not too dissimilar from that of Brahman’s world in DDS1 & 2) created by Ishtar from Megaten with a disguise and anagram “Trisha” so as to be a tongue-in-cheek reference until you realize that Astaroth who is an avatar of Ishtar frequently interacts with Vincent in the dream world making another connection to Megaten. Baroque is only published by ATLUS. Radiant Historia is unique along with Trauma Center where there are no obvious connections to Megaten if any at all. Stella Deus has demon fusion but for items so I guess some rules are similar but that’s just a gameplay element and not lore so it’s disconnected. And yes I know CareerSoft staff worked on the Devil Survivor series but that doesn’t mean Growlanser was developed by ATLUS, it was just published by them.

[@Lonewulf321]

You didn’t even mention snowboard kids

[@Lonewulf321]

@@phillemon7664Metaphor is not connected to the EO at all. It’s just a large reference to EO. There is no way to connect Etrian to the world of Euchronia without massive massive retcons to both stories. You would pretty much have to completely rewrite one story to make this work. The whole Virga islands is just one massive reference to the original title, which Hashino also worked on. Metaphor is a 35th anniversary title, it’s just referencing all of its big RPG games.

[@Tjxal]

Power instinct would count, but one of the characters in Groove on fight is just a walking megaten reference.

[@friedchicken4735]

And most of those franchises have been dead for a minute (no ports and remasters aka "definitive editions" do not count)

[@jeremybeezy]

Atlus games have such a cult following because of that distinct atlus flavor. Part of the reason I stopped playing final fantasy games for a while back in the day is because the changed too much too quickly and it didn't feel like final fantasy anymore. Atlus games feel familiar, yet different and always very atlus. That's why we keep coming back.

[@BuryTheLight-tds]

Funny thing is, that's exactly what I find most appealing about Final Fantasy. It's a series that has no true identity, so I find it funny when people are arguing about how 16 isn't a "true" Final Fantasy game. But at the end of the day, it's all subjective. I keep coming back to try some of the games for the exact same reason as you, because I've always expected the next game to be different from its predecessor than more or less be the same.

[@jeremybeezy]

@BuryTheLight-tds thats a fair point, and over time as I matured I was able to go back and enjoy those games for what they are. I loved 16 in particular. FF 12 was just too much for me as a kid lmao

[@johnlawful2272]

​​@@BuryTheLight-tdsff10 and 7 is my favorite where remake of 7 is my favorite gameplay.

[@johnlawful2272]

​@@jeremybeezyff12 is short but too much grinding

[@claytonadair5080]

@@BuryTheLight-tds I think it’s because Final Fantasy 16 doesn’t really have a lot of RPG mechanics in it, which kind of stopped me from playing it. I wasn’t really one of those people who were disappointed about the lack of turn-based combat, but it also didn’t include important elements like status effects, meaningful use of magic, buffs, debuffs, or party members elements you usually see in a traditional RPG. My attitude toward it changed a bit, and I started to view the game as its own thing.

[@boolien]

Not having a section on Etrian Odyssey, given that it has 5 numbered titles, multiple spinoffs, multiple remakes, and is (supposedly) still ongoing feels like a really strange blind spot given the title of the video, but the title is kind of a bait since you only talk about what some games have in common.

[@DigitalStarry]

Yeah that felt like a really odd omission

[@dimensionalnemesis8636]

That's because Etrian Odyssey is harder than SMT, so even trying to look at it to explain it in a video is too Difficult to grasp anything and any KZbinr gives up, its starting to become an inside joke almost but its funny im not complaining *lunatic EO Fan*

[@Lonewulf321]

⁠@@dimensionalnemesis8636I wouldn’t say EO is harder than SMT, it’s just different. A lot of the modern EOs can be pretty easy just like the modern easy SMT/Persona titles

[@TheOCS01E01DVDRipXvid]

@@dimensionalnemesis8636 Lol EO games are not hard.

[@windego64]

Etrain odyssey fans when they're not mentioned for 2sec:

[@DeepWeeb]

1:18 Uhm ACKSHUALLY on the GBA port of SMT1 (which had an English release for iOS) it's implied that Pascal the dog was a gift from "Mr. Nakajima" (and thus why it can transform into Cerberus, Nakajima's ace demon) 🤓☝

[@gogogadgetrectalpunch]

There’s an old saying, “give me the same, but different”.

[@otakunogitsune5999]

Saying "All Atlus games are just SMT," is the same as saying "All FromSoft games are just Demon's Souls." Maybe I wasn't in the right circles back in 2022, but I don't remember people referring to Elden Ring as "Dark Souls 4." Bit of a double standard imo...

[@garaktartv3647]

i mean it kind of is tho. in essence all from software games have this distinct feel and every game practically plays the same, which is basically the same scenario we have with atlus games. with exception to armored core but when do they release armored core games the last one was just an outlier.

[@tiphotisted]

ER is most definitely DS4 though.

[@otavioguimaraes5798]

I always heard elden ring being referred as open world dark souls.

[@iBe_ImmorTaLiiTy]

I actually did say "Elden Ring is Dark Souls 4, just open world" hahaha! But that was more a funny take, not serious. This video is obviously just bait haha

[@hericiumcoralloides5025]

But all FromSoft games after Demon's Souls are basically Demon's Souls. So yes, this is like saying that and it's correct.

[@jaffinator2166]

No. Because Trauma Center exists

[@Seraphic2004]

Gentle Breeze has been used in youtube ever since it's beginnings, that has to count for something right?

[@siuchaos2606]

I mean they are all spinoffs of SMT at the end of the day, while I love Metaphor Refantazio and think it's incredible in what it did, at the end of the day it's still an SMT spinoff in everything but name. I had thought Metaphor would be Atlus's first foray into a traditional JRPG, but it seems that their framework is what they intend to stay with.

[@sociallyawkard5675]

Yeah its basically just a megaten spinoff, im actually super disappointed about this though cause its not what they marketed it as

[@phillemon7664]

@@sociallyawkard5675 I’m not disappointed but actually pleasantly surprised imo. I guess that’s just difference in taste. Even Catherine has Ishtar from Megaten as the first character you meet and Maken X has SMT lore with the demon blade I just think this franchise is their Final Fantasy and will make every attempt they can to connect all of franchises think with the FFXII connection with Vagrant Story, that is kind of unnecessary but it’s understandable for them to want to do something like that.

[@sociallyawkard5675]

@@phillemon7664 my issue is that most other non megaten games they make (ie etrian, radiant historia) really dont look like megaten or play like megaten (unless you consider just being a first person game being like megaten which I dont etrian has alot of its own unique systems and identity), metaphor thematically, visually and mechanically is really just a megaten game, which is insanely disappointing considering its meant to be a new ip outright, why even make it a new ip instead of just a megami tensei property if your just gonna make megami tensei anyways

[@bricesonroy2350]

Hey the formula ain’t broke so why fix it?

[@WackNoir]

@@bricesonroy2350 bc rehashing it so many times can make it stale. too much of something, whether in frequency or amount or both is a bad thing.

[@AdamW-eo2yq]

Honestly, I couldn’t care less if Metaphor is super similar to persona and SMT. I love those games so having another like that is all good in my book

[@axellycan5070]

How can a man rip himself off? That's the weirdest part of the "Metaphor is a ripoff of Persona" concept.

[@demi-fiendoftime3825]

I'd say Metaphor is an anniversary game than an SMT rip off. It references and uses past Atlus games elements and mechanics to celebrate the company's long history.

[@nezzkid]

Catherine in thumbnail, let's goooooooo! ♂️🐏♀️

[@mmpsp693]

How to fuse Mothman in Catherine?

[@thebristolbruiser]

“Ree Farn Tar Zee Oh” Oh boy, this is going to be a great video.

[@alphi-arc]

Metaphor has the skills from other SMT games that caught me off guard

[@nwcr_]

While I agree the term "sub-series" makes more sense, I really don't think we should have this negative/derogatory vibe everytime we hear spin-off, that's just dumb imo, spin-offs can be great games like any other game

[@KatsuyaTheFuuk]

Great now I feel like finally playing through Maken X, as if I don't have a million other things I should be playing 🦐

[@martintc5906]

I also believe that not having "phases" on Persona differentiates It a lot with SMT Press Turn, where you can basically wipe the entire enemy if you play It right, Up to 8 actions per phase. In Persona you have to check the Turn order of each unit ( at least when you could see It all on P3Fes ) so you can play at the optimal point, knowing when each action Will happen.

[@Nightshroud2400]

Persona literally IS SMT.

[@MrCactuar13]

I'll take the stupid bait. Metaphor isn't just any ol Atlus title, it was made by *the* people responsible for the modern Persona series. So of course it's going to have a lot of SMT DNA in it, more Persona than the "persona-less" SMT5 according to Kotaku if you will. But Etrian Odyssey heads won't let ourselves be forgotten, especially since the multi-platform HD releases mean that the series isn't confined to being on DS systems anymore. And of course they're still publishing Vanilla Ware titles as well. I swear if Atlus makes a new Snowboard kids from out left field the first word that'll come out of everyone's mouths will just be "PERSONA" as always

[@Cat_Friend_333]

Justice for Etrian Odyssey!!

[@sociallyawkard5675]

The difference is persona is a megami tensei game marketing wise Metaphor isnt so it basically just being megaten while being called not megaten is an issue

[@Ivyrigs]

How is it an issue in any way? That's like complaining that Arc System Works mostly makes 2D sprite based fighting games with pretty similar mechanics/overall styles. Like yeah, that's just their style. That's what they do. Atlus isn't a major studio like Nintendo where they're gonna have a bunch of really different things being done for completely different audiences. They're niche and appeal to a specific demographic that likes a specific style of game. They've always reused ideas between games and kept a somewhat similar formula between them. If you somehow didn't realize Metaphor was going to be similar to their other games you genuinely just didn't pay attention to any of the marketing. I'm pretty sure one of the big selling points behind the game was literally that the main director for it worked heavily on the Persona series. If that didn't tip you off then that's more of a you problem than an Atlus problem

[@sociallyawkard5675]

@@Ivyrigs the marketing prior to the reveal was that refantasy was unlike any game theyve ever made and they were hiring new staff for a new studio to start from zero

[@fen6300]

Heard of Etrian Odyssey ? It's probably the one that's the most connected to Metpahor lore-wise

[@kream_fantasy5938]

Pretty sure drakongrace shinjuku just is copy paste from an Etrian dungeon

[@Locaneo]

Pretty much yeah. In-story they are in less supernatural worlds than the Amala/Mandala network. Out of story they were called SMT up till 4. But even then, Naoto in P4 is the great-great-grandchild of Raidou Kuzunoha, she's of the Kuzunoha heritage as it was said in-game and in docs she's the grandchild of Kyouji Kuzunoha. The Kuzunoha detectives in Persona 2 are of the Devil Summoner heritage. Which is also the name of the detectives from the main Devil Summoner game. The final boss of P5's main story is very likely an offshoot/incarnation of YHVH from SMT main trying to give himself an incarnation in the Persona universe to not die and spread his influence. He did so again in Strikers, very reminiscent of his feminine incarnation Shekinah from Strange Journey. We have a lot of other references of course like Vincent from Catherine in P3 like was mentioned. Complete side note. I hear that Dr. Victor from the Kuzunoha/Devil Summoner games is in Trauma Center? Not the young one, but the one that does the demon fusion. If that's true Trauma Center is part of the SMT universe, that's hilarious to think of.

[@Erikthedood]

Also Louis’s family line in Metaphor is implied to be connected to the Trauma Center games

[@govianthefemaleinspector1517]

That song Danger has two versions. The instrumental one used in this video was good but the one with vocals (By Etero Anime) is such a great song.

[@veryexciteddog963]

Maken X: my favorite turn-based creature collector featuring characters from historical folklore and spiritual scripture

[@karion1663]

Didn't saw the video but this is like saying that almost every Square Soft RPG (Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Chrono trigger) are unoriginal because they are about a hero that saves the world with his friends

[@frogthejam2472]

With the same logic a lot of Nintendo exclusive RPGs are unoriginal also

[@kh2fan145]

I've bad arguments with someone who tried making that exact same claim because "this is the people who made the same game 16 times, it's all just about a group of friends saving the world or whatever" despite never playing any of them or knowing anything about it. Especially when that's more of a genre staple and absolute most basic element and common denominator

[@markwatson8714]

@@frogthejam2472 Follow the logic to it's conclusion and pretty much the entire JRPG genre is just a spin off of Wizardry. Heck, Wizardry IV even had the summon monsters and AI controlled party battles. In 1987 ...

[@frogthejam2472]

@@markwatson8714 technically isn’t wizardry IV based on lord of the rings, that means we just keep playing lord of the rings

[@markwatson8714]

@@frogthejam2472 Not really, Wizardry IV was the one that had you playing the boss from the first game, and things get weird. It has some LotR references, but also incorporates everything from Monty Python to Roe Adam's LARP group.

[@andumssssssssss]

Yeah dude, that’s the point and that’s why we love them so much.

[@bacd-nn2lg]

Everything started with Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei novel.

[@nore5888]

Maken X in the thumbnail, based

[@fakealias]

Rule of Rose in SMT universe😮

[@Bargadiel]

They have a design format. That's all it really is. Doesn't have to be a bad thing. If a game is good, I don't really mind.

[@halolemonhalo]

Growlanser is a very unique series with branching plotlines, many complex romances, strategic battle system, and a protag with a customizable personality that heavily impacts the story. Every playthrough will have a different story and its so fun!

[@ChrisS-nb1bz]

Tokyo Mirage Sessions mentioned let’s gooooo But really I don’t think what Atlus’ does is all that different to what Square used to do with their series. The mana and saga series both began as final fantasy sub series, kingdom hearts is a final fantasy spin off, vagrant story is set in the final fantasy XII/tactics world. An argument could even be made that the Xeno series is related to final fantasy since Xenogears was initially pitched as a concept for Final Fantasy VII before they made it a different IP. Basically this isn’t a habit exclusive to Atlus.

[@ericgropuis]

I mean Persona is a spin off of SMT because titles like P3 and P4 have SMT as part of their title sharing game plan and fusion mechanics and demons

[@maccamachine]

Great video man. I find them all fun anyway so long as they keep that up it doesn’t really matter to me. Smt and persona are both fun and so was metaphor. They’ve done different stuff with spin offs sometimes but I enjoy them either way.

[@saton6221]

You got me with that conclusion. Great video.

[@kukukachu]

Other than Katherine and Under the Knife, yea, pretty much.

[@alfredhinton8792]

The game is Catherine. Though their is a Katherine in it and then k girl is my favorite

[@kukukachu]

@@alfredhinton8792 It is Catherine, and i have no idea how I typed it with a K. Weird. Anyways, the original is better than the enhanced version.

[@alfredhinton8792]

@@kukukachu I liked the original story and didn’t really like the addition of Rin. Would like a sequel though

[@kukukachu]

@@alfredhinton8792 I'm sorry, but since you called me out, I gotta call you out lol, it's there not their :P "Though their is" is supposed to be "though there is" lol. Alright, I'm done being punchy :D Back to our original program though, yea, the addition only took away from the focus of what the game was. Really just a downgrade. I'm glad that the steam version is only the original. How would they make a sequel to Catherine? How do you see that happening? What's the story?

[@alfredhinton8792]

@@kukukachu a prequel to how the bartender Thomas bottom beat his game and became the consort of Ishtar, Dumuzid. Also liked how Trisha talked to Joker and the phantom thieves. Like Ishtar is the ultimate persona of the lovers.

[@hugevibez]

I think you're putting too much of a value judgement in the word "spin-off", it quite literally describes a new series that is spun off [the same thread] as some original series. It's just a different series in a same uni- or multi-verse.

[@The1AndOnlyGoldenboy]

I've always said that the differences in Atlus games are more about the stories told and the concepts they focus on. The gameplay, while there are deviations here and there, is mostly consistent across entries... but that's not a bad thing. The MT games were generally about trying to understand humanity's place in existence and how that place is affected by humanity itself. The SMT games are generally about the philosophy of the world we live in and an examination of what makes a world worth living in. The Persona games are about the social dynamics of humanity and the importance of the bonds shared between people. It's also why the scope of the games tends to vary. MT and SMT have seen the player traversing different parts of the planet, the country, going into Heaven and Hell... meanwhile Persona games typically have you within one specific city or region. While stuff like the Devil Summoner series touches on some of these themes, it's in a far narrower way (e.g. Soul Hackers 2 leans HEAVILY into the importance of cooperation even when disagreeing) by comparison. The scope of how far your character physically goes is relative to how far the scope of the conflict goes, and how far the scope of the locus (both internal and external) the game's message tends to be. Think of it like this: SMT3 sees the Demi-Fiend traverse an entire world to find understanding while P3 is just a city. SMT4 sees Flynn and Co. go across multiple parts of Japan as well as Purgatory and Hell, while P4 is pretty much just a small town... maybe a small prefecture, at best. SMTV has the Nahobino explore all of the Underworld. P5 is literally just in Tokyo. The more exploring, the more broad the concepts being explored. The less exploring, the more narrow and specific. It's not bad, it's just a good way of considering the depth of the message, I guess. Even these non MegaTen games like Metaphor have a similar templating, at least, when you look at their more recent history, but in a variety of ways that vary on the scope. Catherine is narrow in scope, narrow in traversal, but has a deep contemplation about the necessity of relationships (both platonic and romantic) and if it's worth giving up freedom for the sake of accepting that necessity. Maken X is far broader in scope and traversal, and explores the nature of "the self" in broad strokes. Metaphor is also fairly broad but considers the idea of a "utopia" and what that could mean or if it's even actually possible to achieve. TL:DR - The gameplay is fun but for myself (and likely a lot of other people) the big draw is the story and the time taken to consider what your individual perspective on the message given happens to be.

[@nodood]

I read that as "smut" and being aware of the mythology inspiration I was intrigued

[@amengaming777]

Catherine is my favorite SMT game

[@thewalkthroughmaking]

I often file like I'm in a minority when I say that I like and prefer the approach of not controlling your party members directly in P3, it makes combat faster and exiting since it requires more carefull planning and managment of your team outside and before battles. So it's great to see that somebody also sees the good in it

[@36inc]

As a final fantasy fan you cant win with gamers. Stick to your mechanical guns and all of the games are the same, change it up massively like final fantasy and people miss the older systems (mainly just wishing X had its system iterated on) You cannot win this compliant its a trap. Atlus makes good games and sqaures no slouch there but theres literally no point in the criticism. Is it all just smt juggled around? Yes but who cares theyre good. Did other rpgs change yes and dragon age and final fantasy get infinite shit for it while also still being great games. So why do people bother caring? Theyre gonna complian anyway as long as the games good we gotta stop having useless criticisms

[@nicksrandomreviews]

The issue FF has, is that it perfected its trademark gameplay system with X-2, and then quickly abandoned it either for combat mechanics that just didn't feel good to use (12, 13, 15), or a system that is functionally fine, but just feels wrong for the series (If I wanted to play Devil May Cry, I would). Square is also inconsistent on what is or isn't an FF. Yeah, that game that has the same look as Final Fantasy, similar writing, and themes? Not a Final Fantasy. But then you have a game about a bunch of dudes on a road trip to get their friend hitched, all while driving an Audi, eating cup noodles and camping with Coleman camping supplies? All while its writing and themes barely resemble other entries in the series? Gotta call that one Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy as a franchise hasn't disappeared. Its just changed its name and address a couple times.

[@36inc]

@nicksrandomreviews my point was final fantasy is fine either way but overtime THE compliants about them just changed with the games. It all reduces back to -too much water. 12 and 15 are in my top 5 next to like tactics 8 and x and og 7 is below crisis core , ask any fan and youll see they care about and dislike entirely different things about those games too. Its a no win subject. Just make it and the fans will play it. Try to play game theory and follow a trend instead and youll end up like bioware.

[@nicksrandomreviews]

@36inc I also put 12 and 15 along with 8, but on the proper end of the spectrum, where they belong.

[@36inc]

@nicksrandomreviews i dont really care where ya put them it just supports my original point that a game being samey or wildly different from previous entries not being useful line of criticism. As an artist you cant do anything with that information so its best just to seperate how you feel about the game from the critique and do what makes sense for the game youre making. If it works it will still find fans 13 is a good example its prolly the most universally dogpiled game in the franchise however fans of it specifically yet endure just cause it runs and does what it does as well as it could do it. A gauntlet of near empty spaces and obtuse battles arent my idea of a good time but theyre or there anyway. I get why people want turn based final fantasy back, but thats a macro feeling im letting the micro experience of playing 16 be affected by. That story was worth it anyway, clive and cid are standout heroes i like the tactical map that updates globally what everyones doing. Theres good there so why let whether its samey or different from other games distract the critical lens . Especially when it could just be the mood youre in thats dragging it down.

[@tiphotisted]

@@36inc Just glad you have a more impartial pov that isn't so black and white when it comes to FF. Too many have a take that they think is the way it ought to be.

[@icytangus6683]

I really like this game and story. I just chalk it up as atlas is like form software. They make a specific game type and know it out the park

[@Nocturne989]

Can't believe you didn't mention that the Lucifer looking antagonist is literally just named Louis without the Cyphre.

[@fenris91]

Its funny because the "Are All Atlus games SMT?" was something that had bothered the Etrian Odyssey staff and they wouldn't put humans, machines, demons and angels in their regular enemy roster for a LONG time. There were major exceptions like Ren, Tchlaga and Ur-Child.

[@SuzuStarlight]

I can't really add much to the discussion bc I only ever played the modern 3 Persona games and a majority of their spin-offs so far (and... ironically Trauma Center, as far es my slightly broken DS Lite's touch screen let me - which I didn't even know was an Atlus game bc back then I didn't know what Atlus was 🤣), thus someone looking at it with what is almost an outsider's perspective... I think it's fricking cool that the company has built such a rich a mythology and some pretty distinct gameplay features that they can repurpose and rearrange to tell so many different stories in so many different settings. Sure, there will always be some overlapping themes and similar storybeats or characters but... the same people will lean towards the same ideas and as you said in the video, creatives tend to be influenced by one another so that is bound to be happen anyway. As someone who plays more for storytelling than for gameplay, I think it's honestly fascinating how they mix and match mechanics and lore to match each world and it's characters and scenario. If anything, that might even require much more creative thinking than coming up with something entirely new and just having to add some kind of genre-appropriate gameplay to it (as you said, Fantasy RPGs, even from different companies, tend to be very similar in gameplay and aesthetics anyway). Did my teenage self feel like her brain was about to explode when I first discovered Persona 4 and learned about the existence of wider Megami Tensei/Shin Megami Tensei plus the rest of the Persona series? Absolutely. But honestly, I always kind of appreciated the concept of there being so much more behind a game I enjoyed, even if so far, I only ever dipped my toes into discovering all of it. (I might not even go through with doing so, because I like my cosy Persona corner that currently doesn't even include P1 and P2 because I am too occupied replaying the titles I did play so far and pumping out fanworks about those, but I have MAD respect for the other Atlus titles and their fans. Isn't it great that there's a SMT-esque title for pretty much any taste? I am dead serious when I say I think that's awesome!❤)

[@SuzuStarlight]

Says she can't add much, almost adds a full essay... yeah, sorry, I was never good at getting straight to a point. Thanks to anyone who might take time to read my ramble!

[@sleepycowboy18]

Trauma center games were soo fun, the medical drama ✋️👌

[@sasuke11457]

I rather it be built off of the same ideas than whatever the hell final fantasy has become

[@legotavi1320]

8:44 jack bros erasure smh

[@jalenp1999]

I don't mind tbh. Sure they're all similar in gameplay aspects but they knock the story out of the park each time with the gameplay being a bonus side dish in my opinion. Each atlus game I've ever played(P3R, P5ORG, P5R, P4G, SMT5V, M:RF) took me at least 80-100 hours to beat despite the similar playstyles playing on normal difficulty. I loved each and every one of their stories and what they had to tell, because in a sense; it related to real life. Persona 3 Reload plays like Persona 4 and 5 at the basic level; but we got to see how tragic the loss of life is(P3R), facing your true self and overcoming the fears that bind you(P4G), and breaking the chains of societal pressure to free will from the hardass adults misusing the power they have. They each had a different story to tell with similar gameplay style and that's ok. If it ain't broken don't fix it right?

[@sleepycowboy18]

2:59 thats so true ive been sayin when p5 come out and how excited i am mostly bcs it's like smt with the demon negotiation and the god slaying

[@jeezycreezy4220]

So the first game(s) in the west to have Shin Megami Tensei in their title(s) were the DemiKids games, making Digital Devil Saga the 3rd or 4th, depending on if you count DemiKids as a single release or two seperate releases, to carry the SMT moniker.

[@dextersbeard3472]

All of them have a similar vibe and art style. Even Maken X back on the Dreamcast definitly feels very SMT in its story and art, the gameplay style is very different though with its first person sword fighting. Same with the main gameplay in Catherine, its unique compared to the mainline SMT/Persona games with its sort of puzzle climbing gameplay but the cutscenes and game outside of the Dreams is very similar to the later Persona games. I love that they have a similar style but are also unique, even amoung just the Persona series we have alot of variation. There's the regular 3rd persona turn based gameplay like in Persona 5, theres first person dungeon crawling like with the Persona Q games, Persona 5 Strikers is an action RPG, then theres P5 Tactica. Its cool that Atlus has a tradmark style that you instantly recognize but inside that they have alot of different style games to play and games with alot of different tones, from more light and playfull to pretty dark and disturbing.

[@donsmith923]

It's just a turn based RPG I could say every final fantasy is the same. RPGs are like meat loaf some have bell peppers some don't some are just meat and some got pepperoni cheese bacon peppers onions

[@Red-nw2yn]

Hmmm speaking about FF, in term of story and world building, Final Fantasy still better (1 about four demons and time travel. 2 with rebelling againts evil emperor. 4 about lunarian. 7 saving planet and discovering alien?. 10 about sin and dream. 13 is false god, lcie and falcie etc etc). Meanwhile Smt 1 to 5 : hey world is "doomed, city is full of demons". Pls "choose 1 of 3 between" -Loyal to order of god -Side with chaotic demons -Or believe in human potential.

[@ibadrizvi5740]

I don't think its about the elements from gameplay that are similar between the games that are the issue, its more about how they progress the story in such a similar way inspite of how terrible the pacing of some of these stories are because of the choice of character links

[@KeyleeTamirian]

"Usage of Final Fantasy tilesets" Dude, right now i'm playing SNES RPG called "Secret of the Stars" and some of NPC sprites are straight from Final Fantasy 1-5!

[@vinigmoura]

YES, and I love it because its SMT but different each time. (some more, some less)

[@muscmilk]

I say theyre just sticking to what they know, nobody else doing it like them. And the day they stop? It'll be hard to find anything else like it.

[@aloox395]

Bro im so with you on the AI party members. Giving me more control over all party members is boring it makes it too easy. I wanna feel part of a team rather than being the whole team.

[@ltxr9973]

It goes beyond Atlus games. It's like the game visual novel + dungeon crawling gameplay loop has become the new default for a lot of JRPGs. For example all the IF/Compile Heart RPGs.

[@Kraust]

I bought ReFantazio literally because its demo did not take place in a Japanese High School. I did not know that Atlus could make games that didn't take place in a Japanese High School and /or had Japanese High Schoolers as protagonists.

[@pian-0g445]

Funnily enough, megaten games aren’t solely focused on high school setting. While usually the characters are around the teenage/young adult age, they don’t go to or focus on a school setting. The first it was done was Shin Megamo Tensei If (which inspired the persona spin offs). Straight up, the 4th mainline entry has you playing as basically samurai’s in a fantasy world.

[@BuryTheLight-tds]

Then you're bound to love some of the older Megaten games, give them a try when you can

[@Zielschmer]

If Atlus had just released Metaphor, without running their mouths, no one would be talking about how it's just Megaten. The big problem is that they talked too much about how those guys were leaving Studio P for Studio 0 to make something that was not Persona and was really unique and in the end, it just looked too similar to what they had done before.

[@netcat22]

The answer is yes. Problem?

[@chrisdixon7377]

Well persona 2 had devil summoners as supporting characters (rumor agency] so we know in atleast the first two games it's the same universe or similar universes

[@Hugh_Jannis]

Pretty much yes. But Im not complaining 🤷‍♂️

[@taurussian4591]

Metaphor feels like a marriage of Persona and Digital Devil Saga

[@nr2676]

And Etrian Odyssey (job system / archetypes)

[@drachenfeIs]

Must have a Siva fight to be a proper mainline game.

[@Cat_Friend_333]

Surprised Etrian Odyssey isn't mentioned in here. People do tend to not really know about it, though. Justice for my favourite game series!!

[@todd3143]

YES PLEASE YES SMT EVERYTHING IS SMT

[@rafaelluciano5596]

Never forget the other largest Atlus property, the picture booth 😅

[@MegaCygnusX1]

Persona is for cheerleaders. SMT is for chess nerds.

[@majedmohammed6428]

Wtf

[@apprenticeb8r8r93]

What If you're both?

[@bwillsskates2638]

Metaphor is for real ni-

[@haixaldonix4945]

12:00 thanks for waking up my PTSD

[@Legendaryyy77]

Maken X OST yoo??? No way this game is getting recognized

[@critical_6164]

maken x is pretty well respected among atlus fans

[@jonahrice6762]

basically yes but we love them for it i don't like when they lean to heavily into persona mechanics tho.

[@rickyhonablue236]

I don't know why atlus specifically has been getting a lot of flack on metaphor for being "unoriginal". People can say the same thing for many companies like fromsoftware,square enix, rgg, etc. Even xenoblade, from what I've heard, was supposed to be a final fantasy spin-off but was axed.

[@penitente3337]

Probably because they advertise it as its own original thing, and then it turned out it was basically just SMT. That's what I think, at least.

[@rickyhonablue236]

@penitente3337 That's something I've seen quite a bit of comments about. This isn't true if you watch the promotional material for the game especially when they talk about the combat and core gameplay hashino straight up says the game has the press turn system from nocturne. The people saying complete originality was promised did not watch enough of the official videos.

[@penitente3337]

​@@rickyhonablue236 to be fair, I was mostly taking a guess, don't follow the game much (probably should've clarified that in my first comment oops) either way I do find it a bit silly to make it ""separate"" to SMT while being SMT

[@abaddon1503]

Close but not exactly. First off it wasn’t XenoBLADE, it was XenoGEARS which is owned by Square Enix. Second off it wasn’t going to be a Final Fantasy spinoff, it was gonna be Final Fantasy 7 wholesale.

[@blackdragon7038]

Ppl definitely complain about RGG and fromsoftware for reusing assets and design. Atlus should not get a pass for still using ps2 design.

[@bentibz2750]

Its called collective conciousness, everything that has been done and seen are all similar, like deja vu

[@Kinomiyasan]

In looks yes ig youll never see all square enix games looking like final fantasy and dragon quest But most atlus games look like smt and persona(or simply is those 2 games)

[@danielpratt3794]

Phew, thought you were going to do an atlus cinrmatic universe theory there for a sec 😅

[@sonofwotan]

Nah, they made a ton of more general RPG’s and tactical RPG’s back in the day, as well as fighting and racing games. I’ve been on a tactical rpg kick lately and it seems like every other one has the Atlus logo at the beginning. But yeah, SMT and Persona are based off the same series of novels.

[@SicSemperBeats]

Its ok if they're all the same game. A lot of Fromsoft games are similar, but we love them all

[@Tennosan]

Nothing more true has been said. P3F has a good gameplay, it adds a narrative layer to the game since the team is not cohesive and tbh it has lots of good mechanics like the costume swap, the mc can use every weapon... Its gameplay is underrated imo even because it actually require a minimum of skill

[@astrea555]

I wish Soul Hacker 2 had even half of Metaphor's budget.

[@critical_6164]

its such a god damn waste of a good main character, sh2 was so shit.

[@nr2676]

Even SMT V don't had half of Metaphor budget, especially for marketing. SH2 was doomed to fail with that ,,penaut'' budget.

[@rokmare]

Well...The days of trauma center are over so that's all that's left

[@damasake]

Correct, every Atlus game other than SMT are SMT spin-offs.

[@OzekiTK]

Ay, my favorite SMT game, Trauma Center for the Nintendo DS.

[@WillTheGreatest]

Funny enough cause of ehat you talk about here in the title, which basically is "ATLUS has a set style of mechanics they broadly prefer but theyll try other things sometimes" is why i havent got metaphor yet. After buying both P3R and SMTVV, both 60+ hour, turn based rpgs with blue haired protags i was kinda hoping for less of the same. The positive buzz though is making me reconsider.

[@BeruleAdierant]

A thing being a spin-off is not necessarily bad.

[@joji197]

Short answer yes

[@interrobangings]

yes, 100% but that's not a bad thing 😘

[@bwillsskates2638]

I love every single one of them. Who cares! Metaphor is so good

[@makotonarukami7468]

I mean all the successful spin-offs of smt ended up being an excuse to sell more smt is obviously we would have had smt 26 smt 126 by now set up having all those smt numbers of games over the years of over 100 might as well set up calling the smt 50 just call it something like Persona Q

[@goldenhorse4823]

Short answer: Yes, mostly cause Atlus games often have very small budgets

[@nixregis280]

There are other games but I will agree the the megaten style games get the most love. I personally want one more Etrian Odyssey or trauma center, even the insane knight in the nightmare game

[@markwatson8714]

If you define SMT by it's systems, then the answer would be yes. Question you should be asking then though is how big is the SMT design space and what percentage have Atlus actually explored so far?

[@SJrad]

It’s a formula that works

[@Megidolaon999]

This video only serves purpose of asking if Metaphor is Megaten. For anyone wondering, of course it is.