Buddhism: A Christian Response

In this video I offer a Christian response to Buddhism, focusing on the way each religion responds to the same fundamental human question, but with diametrically different answers.
Truth Unites is a mixture of apologetics and theology, with an irenic focus.
Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) serves as senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Ojai.
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00:00 - Introduction
01:00 - The Buddha's Life
02:48 - The Four Noble Truths
04:08 - Anatman, "no self"
05:22 - The Turn from Metaphysics
06:47 - A Christian Response
12:29 - Drawing Out Implications
17:45 - Personal Conclusions

[@laurenkidd-nf4lf]

I haven't heard many Christians talk about Buddhism and other religions like this. You are very articulate, you should keep doing this.

[@wordscapes5690]

Unfortunately, and I am sure it is not his fault, his knowledge of Buddhism is cursory… to say the very least.

[@rolandjosef7961]

I heard Judge Joe Brown discussed Buddhism and its parallel to the Wokeism we see today. Buddhism does not adhere to a God/god. There is no ultimate creator or master in one's life. Wokeism is like Buddhism too. Pls watch on youtube how he articulated the two worldview.

[@gorgzilla1712]

Hey, I practice Buddhism but I think this was very nice and respectful. For me, what you described is somewhat what most Buddhists believe. Nirvana is not the cessation of being, but something beyond comprehension, where infinite peace is obtained. I like Buddhism because it gives us a road map of how to get infinite happiness, which we can somewhat experience in this life. Also as a skeptic, I like the value that Buddhism places on skepticism and how flexible the teachings are. Much peace to you

[@thomaswashington2127]

I must say I'm a Christian..but I have never come across a disrespectful Buddhist. God bless you my friend

[@songao1833]

LORD JESUS CHRIST is the ONLY WAY to the HEAVEN

[@alisterrebelo9013]

Peace be with you. "I like the value that Buddhism places on skepticism" This is true for some schools of Buddhism but not all. While I have no doubt, you are being sincere in your comment, the fact remains that it is common in Buddhism to make all sorts of claims about the afterlife, such as rebirth, karmic system, etc. These claims are not subject to skeptical questioning by adherents. When these claims are questioned, I haven't seen any sensible replies. The best reply seems to be that Buddha despite being a man, can somehow access post-mortem information about reality while still being physically alive, purely through achieving a particular state of mental contemplation. Therefore, his claims ought to be taken on blind faith. A Christian, then offers the revelation given by Jesus Christ, i.e. the existence of God, the existence and the reality of sin separating us from God, and the only path back to God through Jesus himself. This truth of this revelation is built on the Resurrection of Jesus which is more than just blind faith. There are a whole host of evidences such as the historical writings of the time showing the empty tomb, the conversion of a Jewish persecutor like Paul, the boldness of the Apostles such as Peter, James and Paul turning from fear to preach the Gospel despite knowing that they could be killed, and actually dying for their beliefs. I like that you appreciate skepticism, and so do I. Which is why I am no longer an athiest. My conversion involved a great deal of examination of Christianity and other religions in great detail.

[@ursulaporage2750]

This was great. Thank you. My parents converted from Buddhism when I was 8. I'm so grateful that God changed their hearts and was able to hear the gospel.

[@TharMan9]

Agreed! Dr. Ortlund did a good job highlighting some of the important distinctions (although one could go through every Christian doctrine and see glaring differences - like they don’t believe in God, for starters). I was a New Age Buddhist of sorts before I became a Christian some 45 years ago, and my son recently converted to Christianity from an even deeper immersion into Buddhism than I had. Dr. Ortlund mentioned Lewis and Tolkien, and they were influential in my change of mind as well.

[@toomanymarys7355]

Imagine believing that your love for your child is a natural evil. :((( And that your parents' love for you is a poison to them. It's awful.

[@lkae4]

Yes, be very grateful that you did not have to grow in the dark hopelessness of Buddhism. I did. Millions of others have and are suffering today. We should not respect this dark, false ideology. We tolerate it and expose it for the false damnable thing that it is.

[@slmoneymachine1487]

@@toomanymarys7355 It is a huge misunderstanding. It is not like that. We love your parents and children. It is just an understanding that they are not permanent. So we accept that. Therefore, even after their death, we can avoid the mental pain of losing them. The teaching of load buddha is not a religion. Anyone can learn it, study and question it. if they like, can apply it for the life. No harm at all. But don't believe everything written in a book. Because they are not written by lord buddha. It is the art of living happily.

[@wordscapes5690]

@@toomanymarys7355 Untrue

[@Agumon5]

Good video. I've had the opposite experience to most people here. I actually went from Christianity to Buddhism, I have for months struggled with mental health challenges ... So much so that at times I could not function. I found that the Sangha was welcoming and encouraging in my spiritual practice. In a way they helped pull me back from the brink. I'm still not well, but I'm definitely better than I was when I first visited the Buddhist monastery. Meditation and mindfulness have immensely benefited my life.

[@thomasrutledge5941]

That's good. In mathematics, set theory often leads to Buddhism, Taoism & Advaita Vedanta. Meontology, the study of "nothing", awesome!

[@thomasrutledge5941]

Alan W. Watts (1915-1973), The Essential Lectures of Alan Watts- Nothing kzbin.info/www/bejne/ommxmX6Xjp6bj6Msi=q_mElnYXNmtf2GgV

[@thomasrutledge5941]

Jason Gregory is excellent at communicating eastern philosphy to western minds. 1. Taoism 2. Buddhism 3. Hinduism [Especially Advita Vedanta] The Tao of the Absolute kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKu2e6JoZs2YoZYsi=pOEsYoIKEaaQ58QQ

[@workinpromo]

As a Catholic who has a background in Buddhism before I converted, I can tell you that the Catholic tradition has a lot of meditation. My favorites are the meditations on our very real identification and union with the sufferings of Christ for the salvation of others. Because those meditations I've found in my own experience are a lot more powerful to negate fear of suffering or anxiety. As every point of suffering and every fragment of suffering in us becomes a vehicle for an overabunance of love and grace in a relationship with God and neighbor. Rather than the lonesome austere tendencies of Buddhist meditation that lack the dimension of sacrificial love because love itself is desire and subject to be disappointed. Jesus Christ however calls us to suffer willingly and with passionate drive for those we love, and he guarantees it will not all be in vain, because he rose from the dead. I hope your mental health gets better, I had anxiety as a Buddhist practitioner before become Christian which completely did away with my anxiety and now my mental health after so much work of love with Christ Crucified has become extremely solid.

[@maciejrzepczyk6562]

As a lifelong Christian who is fascinated with Buddhism, I can say that the science of the Abhidharma could be used by many Christians to stop the very inclination of doing evil habits (cetana).

[@thephilosopherfromdixie7466]

You mentioned the incarnation, resurrection and ascension, but surprisingly, not the passion and death of Our Lord. This I think is a stark point of comparison. For the buddhist, to live is to suffer, but we can escape suffering through the self-annihilation of nirvana. In contrast, the world is so fallen and shot through with misery and suffering that when God came into this world, He suffered and died on a cross. We believe in a god who is a man of sorrows, a son of man with no place to lay his head at night. In the passion of Our Lord, we see the problem of evil and suffering in stark relief. The worst thing, the greatest injustice, that possibly could happen did happen. We murdered God. And indeed, though he rose in glory, the world left him scarred. Even ascended, he still bears those five wounds. God became man and wept our tears so that he could wipe our tears away. He was broken so we could be healed. His Sacred Heart was broken so that ours could be mended. And he mourned so that we could rejoice. For the hindu, the Buddhist and Plotinus, the call to action is to save ourselves from this broken world. For the Christian, God was broken to mend a world that cant save itself, but for whatever reason, he still considered worth saving. God felt our pain, wept our tears and died our death, all because he valued our life more than his own. This is the Christian faith, and it really does sound too good to be true, doesnt it?

[@smlanka4u]

We can explain our existence scentifically. Part1 mhNgg Part2 6RStiM. If you join the part 1 and part2, then you can use that ID to watch it at here. Or my name will show it to you.

[@isaacbeynon5739]

Amen bro

[@arissonstanfield1758]

These two things are not mutually exclusive my friend. The desire to escape an wicked age ruled by an evil god is also biblical. And the lament at an utterly unsatisfactory cosmic order lies at the heart of Ecclesiastes.

[@tsurugi5]

christianity is sanitization of the spirit, to be made docile and obedient, with a negated ego robbed of your hope over a false promise of eternal """bliss""" and the threat of eternal torture along with a scapegoat so to disregard the opposition as "evil" and "damned". There is no spiritual growth through this mental cancer. The term "Slave Morality" really is fitting. you also basically failed buddhism 101 if you interpeted nivana as a self-annihilation because that was one of the positions that the buddha himself rejected

[@camillewilliams3185]

​@@arissonstanfield1758God being evil is certainly not Biblical.

[@danielklassen1513]

Ladies and gentlemen, inspired by "Whose Line Is It Anyway?" and the subject matter of this video, I present to you, the Buddhism Hoedown! (Not a true story, just a bit of fun) I was a Buddhist, you'll find if you inquire I once believed in removal of desire One day Dr. Ortlund helped me reach a decision Instead of nirvana I'll seek the beatific vision!

[@sebastienberger1112]

Hahaha! I couldn't stop myself from singing your Hoedown outloud in my living room 🤣. Well done 😊

[@wordscapes5690]

And then I found, to my distress, Visions were not MORE but LESS, And being Buddhist’s not “removing” But rather ceasing even moving.

[@kcfl3448]

Love love LOVE this!!! Love your intellect, love your intelligence, love your enthusiasm. Wow. Wow. Wow. Joy infinite and expanding 🙌🙌🙌

[@alisterrebelo9013]

I'm a Catholic. Thank you Gavin for your well thought out treatment of Buddhism here. I've learned a great deal on how to respond to objections in particular relating to the poisoned arrow analogy.

[@cristian_5305]

Fascinating, admittedly, Buddhism is an area in which I'm mostly ignorant, so it's great to learn

[@richardbeall9174]

Apologies for yet another predictable comment from me, here in the north of England. I always look forward to your scholarly content, delivery and enthusiasm, and I want to thank you once again for another helpful video. Bless you Dr Gavin, and all those you love, and thank you for your influence and help on my own faith journey. Richard.

[@ProfYaffle]

I'm in north of England too and share your enthusiasm for Gavin's videos

[@richardbeall9174]

@@ProfYaffle Thank you for making contact my friend. It's nice to know of someone else in my part of the world who appreciates Gavin's videos as much as I do. Kind regards, Richard.

[@littleboots9800]

@YAJUN YUAN Not true. Its really just the early 20th Century that this doctrine began to be sidelined. There are many Protestant theologians that wrote about the beatific vision. Calvin for example, the Puritans too. The Beatific vision isn't exactly heaven, it's something that we are granted in heaven.

[@brettrfalcon730]

What you described as “longing for heaven” resonated deeply within me and I have not heard another person articulate it. I could never describe that exact feeling, almost as if it would be like describing a new color, but you brought that out.

[@rasrepent]

Love this Gavin! Would love to see you do more videos on comparative religions !

[@Rue1008]

Oh, this is so good ! thank you for such a well considered and respectful analysis. I was once a Swami (for 35 years) before I came to know the Lord; and there are of course many similarities between Hinduism and Buddhism. You are quite correct in saying that by studying other world religions one gains a better insight into one's own faith and sees the beauty therein (Christianity). In my pursuit of 'samadhi' I followed the teachings of a guru - someone who would never die for me, and who offered me many "works" to do in order to gain liberation ('moksha'). I am so grateful to have come to God's rest, which is available to those who believe (Heb 4:1-3)

[@wordscapes5690]

Buddhism does not have "swamis". The differences between Buddhism and Hinduism are VAST. It's like comparing Agnosticism to Mormonism (particularly certain sexts of Buddhism). However, what you say is true - Religions can be an excellent guide toward your own sense of happiness and well-being. Nonetheless, that happiness is short-lived. That well-being is unsustainable. Christianity offers no practical guide toward ending your suffering. Like all religions, it makes grandiose promises about the future, and improbable claims about the past. But in the "now" its promises are meagre and unfulfilling (if we are honest when our prayers are not answered - which is almost always). Life happens in the here and now. But I am very glad you have found your equilibrium. Nonetheless, I strongly feel that Christianity offers the same delusion that Hinduism offers (more so, because its teachings are so small in number and so philosophically barren compared to Hinduism). Alright, now I sound like I am preaching - please forgive me. Blessings to you, and may you continue on the joyous path. With love.

[@jamestucker4800]

@@wordscapes5690 David Hawkins explained it best: Jesus Christ taught the way of salvation, the way of unconditional love, which is a very realistic goal in this domain. The Buddha taught enlightenment, which is the complete emancipation from all attachment, desire, aversion, ego clinging and self - a condition so far beyond any comprehension and verbalization. In this domain this is an extremely difficult, arduous attainment due to the tremendous negativity. The Buddha did not teach of "God" due to the various belief systems and dogmas around God. Extremely naive Christians believe that if one is a Buddhist that means they are not a "Christian" and thus "cannot be saved" which is pretty stupid if you think about it. As the old saying goes, to become a better Christian one should be a better Buddhist, and to become a better Buddhist one should become a better Christian.

[@wordscapes5690]

@@jamestucker4800 You had me up until the end. Buddhism and Christianity are light years apart. In the Christian texts one finds endless horrors, blood sacrifice, god idolatry, and threats of eternal tortures. It is, by its very nature, anti-Buddhist. I would happily let my kids near Hindus, Jains, Sikhs, atheists, agnostics - but the Abrahamic faiths? No. I think they are deeply dysfunctional and wildly immoral. I hope this does not offend, but it is my honest opinion based on what I have read in their holy texts.

[@Ben-jr6vl]

​​@@wordscapes5690you make good points regarding Hinduism and Buddhism. An interesting things suggested by Hinduism is that we are all gods without realizing it playing our drama of life and when we are ready to wake up and realize that we are god we will. With Bhuddism, the 8 fold path leads to enlightenment and the end of all suffering. I think each person must find and recognize the truth for themselves, but for me I see the other religions as a destraction on the path to enlightenment. As it is how many more lifetimes must I be born? So for my next life I hope I will be born 23:28 23:28 to a Bhuddist family

[@wordscapes5690]

@@Ben-jr6vl I think it would be unfortunate to be born a god. This would mean you have indeed led a virtuous and ethical life, but that you still harbored cravings for this world’s pleasures. This means you will certainly, as a god, live millions of years of blissful happiness, but you will still be subject to decay and death in the end. I do not think it a good aspiration to become a god. I would regard it as a great virtue, yes - but still a tragedy. Look at all the harm gods cause in the world (some intentionally, and others unintentionally). Imagine the karma this brings! Our goal is to realize perfect samadhi - beyond clinging, wanting, craving - even beyond NOT wanting and craving (which is itself a craving).

[@DutchElite98]

Dear Gavin, Absolutely phenominal video, I am so thankfull I discovered your channel. I felt the rushle of heaven during this video 'God takes human happiness seriously'. It reminded me that the message of Christianity is so relevant and it stirred a longing to live this message more. Not in my own power but through the happiness recieved through Christ.

[@protestanttoorthodox3625]

Thank you for this video Dr Ortland. The statements about the "echos of eden" made me choke up... beautiful hope

[@anniebanderet]

I have family members who are Buddhist, so I appreciate this. Longings have much to teach us.

[@arttyree4504]

Thanks Gavin, for your very fine consideration of this religion/philosophy. Well presented and clearly thought through.

[@patricksee10]

Thank Gavin, a most welcome addition to thinking about Buddhism

[@jophrychris2396]

Thanks for making this video. God bless you, brother 🙏

[@chhmar99utube]

Born into Cambodian hinayana buddhism the decisive reason i embraced Jesus was meeting my Saviour as a real Person when i was a nineteen year old at university. It often surprises me to see some self professing christian declaring they have traded their faith for buddhism because it reveals an ignorance of both faiths. Christianity is the fulfilment of God's promise of a Saviour to mankind. Buddhism is a rebellion against hinduism, with self healing coming from self mortification. Despite having a paradise and a hell and an ongoing judgement performed by some cosmic forces buddhism doesn't grasp what sin is. In that context your analogy of the wounding arrow is quite apt. That fear of hell is what motivates (in bouts of lucidity) the lesser buddhist to seek respite for his soul whereas to the more advanced buddhist he will seek complete annihilation of desire. In the buddhist world there is no explanation for the beauty of God's created world, a sunset or an orchestral symphony - they are all impermanent manifestations of cosmic forces that you must detach your self from. So to me buddhism is indeed ultimately a philosophy of resignation and despair; a mortally struck man staring at that gaping wound from the stray arrow and willing him self to do better. Or blaming his past lives for that painful fate now. Unsurprisingly contemporary cambodians have accepted impassively the immolation of the innocent in the indochina war 1970-75, the autogenocide of 1975-78 and the pervasive social injustice thereafter.

[@miguelatkinson]

That sounds like a whole load of crap especially about Buddhism can't explain beauty

[@setfree-rihaee2737]

this is so helpful pastor

[@Makaneek5060]

I'd buy a scholarly/theological guide to the Pali Canon written in this frank and respectful style, great vid.

[@halleylujah247]

Oh glad you are doing this one.

[@dreaminez472]

That was an interesting take, thank you for being respectful. I left Christianity after high school and began practising Zen Buddhism. I still believe there is a lot of wisdom in Christianity. A few points to note: First, The Buddha lived in the 5th century B.C., not A.D. Second, there's a seeming paradox in Buddhism regarding desire. The Buddha sought peace and the transcendence of suffering. This is in itself desire. The desires he taught to let go of are wordly desires, transient states that will pass. Our minds cling to things (pleasure, wealth, status, relationships, happiness etc.) These things are not inherently bad but our attachment to them is. This is where suffering lies. Peace and happiness are not the same thing. Happiness is an emotion that ebs and flows. Peace, for those who reach Nirvana, is not transient. Even in painful conflicted times those who reach enlightenment can remain fully at peace. An enlightened being is not resigned to fate but they do accept reality in it's entirety and realize their judgement and emotions that arrise in response are not intrinsic to their sprititual nature. They are instead phenomina to be observed and understood in their context. Nirvana is then largely analogous to the Kingdom of God. It is our ego that convices us that our desires MUST be met, so to transcend desire is not sad, sadness is simply a conditioned response. For example I have let go of many things in life. I have no partner, no home, no vehicle, almost no possessions and I am more at peace than I ever was when I had them and certainly more at peace than many extremely wealthy and famous people who have everything. Where Christianity breaks down for me is it's purely based on belief whereas Buddhism is about practise which can be measured and verified. The claims of the Bible are also extremely illogical to me as well. This world is a screwed up place and we are a screwed up species. I don't think blaming that on the Devil makes sense as God is supremely powerful. All of the horrors of this world God ultimitely signs off on. That's not a god I want anything to do with. I think the narrative of Christianity is clearly a desperate attempt to put a happy ending on an obviously messed up world, though the psychological implications are very profound for those who are able to believe. For me Buddhism lays out a path that measurably leads to peace. His claims are verifiable which is why my faith is in the Buddha. Thanks again for your analysis, I'll check out more of your videos!

[@danilejai7801]

I think once you learn the origins of the Bible and of Judaism it’s easier to understand Christianity and what it brings to the table. I practice Zen Buddhism as well it suits me because I am a deep thinker. But I think once you look at Christianity from a metaphysical or mystical perspective there’s a lot in common with eastern principles. If instead of thinking about a literal devil and literal god, imagine instead that it’s speaking about the dual nature that’s inside of every person. To me, what messes most of Christianity up is the religion/dogma part of it or basically the crap that the denominations add on.

[@LuzianJ]

The most incompatible thing about Buddhism would be the karmic and reincarnation cycle which to me seems not just simplistic but also harmful to a society that believes in such. A better understanding of this can be gained from Buddhism's origin which is Hinduism. The karmic cycle of rebirth has been the basis of justifying suffering in the world, notably also the caste system(derived from the Varnas, but I won't get into that). Buddhism is an attempt to escape this karmic cycle, which for some reason it affirms without any scrutiny. In this worldview, everyone is deserving of their positions in life because of their actions ( past life). There is no reason to help the poor, no reason to question oppressors, and no reason to bring societal change because everyone is simply reaping the fruits of their own karma. You simply observe how the world around you unfolds while being consumed in your own "enlightenment". I think we should be grateful that our society is not founded on this worldview.

[@AnonymousMessenger]

ok in the part that you said that it's illogical to you well it can be logical cause if you asked any Christian person how you knew Jesus and the proof of how is he real he will say these 2 things The First One: and I personally know people who knew Jesus in this way or and this often happens and when he doesn't want us to achieve this it doesn't happen but this happens more than it doesn't Someone once said:

[@ElJubranco]

So who judges you on your wrong doing who delivers the karma. Who or what do Buddhists believe does the judging?

[@thomaswashington2127]

I'm not sure how you can leave christianity and follow a man who abandoned his family for search of enlightenment..cus Buddha had a child and wife. Buddism teaches that this life is an illusion which in itself is illogical. You left the truth to follow in the footsteps of a man who had no answers. Think about that

[@bheavenor8842]

Thank you for your open heart and respect for other people's different approach to spiritual questions. I am a Buddhist and I too have found deeper understanding through contrast of ideas and experiences. I have contemplated the tensions you speak of in my quest for happiness and permanence contrasted with suffering and impermanence: My first introspective observation - happiness for me for the most part is contentment that accompanies relief of having achieved my desired intent. It is so temporary and mostly related to the relief in that moment. Second observation: What is contentment? My experience says contentment means I don't need any more and I am satisfied. Third observation: Where can I find contentment where I don't need any more: The serenity prayer: God grant me the serenity to accept my experience as a continuum of change, the determination to let go of hanging on to any moment as unchangeable and the wisdom to integrate contentment in all changing circumstances of life.

[@mitchelljimeno3564]

Praise God! Thank you

[@missouriblake]

Wow. This is such a humble and profound video. This one seems very useful for evangelism. It makes me think... II wonder if you have made a video directed toward non-believers that covers the basic gospel message. That would be amazing! I have not ran across it yet, but I am working my way through them all, so I should see it some day.

[@thekillerboy536]

Sometimes many people get confused about whether Buddha is God or human, even some people believe that Buddhism is an agnostic religion..so being a Buddhist first of all let me make it clear to you that Buddhism is a practical religion, it is not an agnostic religion, I don't know if it will be good to use words so call them religion because Buddha never preached religion instead he preached Dhamma so Buddhism is a way of life, I myself as a Buddhist believe in God but God cannot be explained, God cannot be explained why he is God, and God is not what you think about, your karma is your God, that decides what you will be tomorrow or today so I believe in a God which is Karma, I don't believe in a God who said I am your God, I am controlling you, pray to me I will heal you. So for those who wanted to know about the truthNess of life, go for 10 days vipassana then you will know what is Dhamma all about..many people try to figure out what buddhism is all about, I promise you, you will not understand about buddhism until you realise it, thats why I suggest to everyone go for vipassana meditation

[@Manoj-vp5in]

If you think Karma is god then you failed to grasp Buddhism properly. Espacially it's Law of dependent origination. Karma itself is conditioned and a sentient being performs karma because of sense-contact connected with perception and feeling in material world which finally results in volition in our mind which finally allows to perform karma. So no karma is not god, don't entertain this wrong view, abandon it asap. It will benefit you. 🙏

[@wissenschaftkraft5075]

Awesome comparison!!

[@Shokukumi]

Hey Gavin, thanks a lot for this video! It was very inspiring. What you've mentioned about learning about your own faith through studying alternatives, is a bit what has happened here for me, as well - just from the opposite (Buddhist looking at Christianity). So, it's very interesting to me to listen to your experiences and conclusions. I wish I could discuss longer with you and exchange experiences, since this is such a huge topic and I love those kind of intersections where two or more philosophies meet, but alas, it's only a KZbin comment :) There's one thing I would still like to mention, though: I don't know what of Buddhism you learnt, but at least in Mahayana Buddhism there is the idea that Nirvana is not only the extinguishing of the flame of tragic rebirth, but also a state of eternal bliss and happiness; much like how you describe the experience of Heaven! So, we believe that upon attaining Nirvana, we enter a state of bliss and happiness that sounds to be very similar to the state the soul (?) must be in when entering Heaven. Thus, I find there to be a lot more similarities between the two philosophies than we might think, at first. Thank you for your video and have a great day! :)

[@Grace-fc8zx]

This is very good. Buddha : light your own lamp. The Lord : come to me all who are wearied and burdened..

[@Talancir]

Or rather, I am the light.

[@mclrose7]

Hallelujah!

[@bettymofokeng3404]

Thank you pastor Gavin, and we are greatful that as a person received Christ one experience a clips of that joy , a clips of heaven in earth🙏

[@justiceearth9702]

I long to know who God truly is. It’s a flame in me that never goes out. The sad thing is that as much as I seek, I may never know

[@cullanfritts4499]

God bless you, brother. You make me want heaven more.

[@prime_time_youtube]

Awesome!

[@F2222m]

Hi Dr. Orlund, have you ever looked into the comparisons between hesychasm and Buddhism? I think there is a case to be made that the practice was taken from them but I’m curious if you know more about this?

[@alexandraharris1483]

Thank you for this excellent and informative and encouraging video! I recently met an elderly Jewish lady who was atheist for most of her life, and then Buddhist for the other part of her life. Now can you believe it? She is considering Jesus. I think she would enjoy watching this! May God‘s will be done!

[@dagwould]

@8:50: the first moment of creation is the key to opening the door of reality: creation, occurring in our historical timeline (indicated by the work over a specified number of days), from an external to that creation (God, a person, Creator). This sets the scene for the Incarnation. | @21:10-ish. I think I know what you are getting at with longings for joy. You obtain your goal: holiday in a beach house, a day sailing..and you know that there's huge enjoyment there, you can see/feel the hugeness, but you can't take it all in! It eludes you in the most stimulating fabulous way...in the New Creation, I imagine we might experience this, but keep taking it all in, and there's always satisfyingly more as we come to experience Yahweh in Christ more and more. Man, you brought me to tears of joy!!

[@rolandovelasquez135]

Great! Love this video. Thanks again Gavin 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 "... one of them takes away the hunger, the other one gives you food...". Perfect!!! 👌🏼 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst." John 6:35 And... "God became a man... God and creation are united... " God has embraced us. Yes! Praise God forevermore, and his Son.

[@MrKappaKappaPsi]

Praise God for your Excellent teaching. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I noticed too that while Christ takes our burdens, buddah say to shed those burdens but to live is a burden. So to me it's like buddah offers a path to escape but it leads to the beginning. That's why Christ said you have to born again.

[@adamt1564]

Thank you for your sensitive discussion of Christianity and Buddhism. Both traditions are in my path, though I have been growing in Christianity for twenty years.

[@MrChristianman3]

Dr. Ortlund, I’d really appreciate more videos discussing Buddhism as it seems to have taken a hold of popular culture right now and it’s becoming popular in the West as people look to escape Christianity

[@miguelatkinson]

Or Christianity is just in decline

[@kimathi_w]

Mannn thus touched something deep towards the end

[@truthisbeautiful7492]

Neighboring Faiths is a great Christian book that goes over world religions. I think it would be interesting to videos directed towards the major religions, esp the various versions of buddhism and hinduism.

[@spiriteNsh1]

Buddhism isn’t a religion it’s a practice, a way of life.

[@Terabapu3156]

When buddha left his house leaving all relations are you also supposed to leave all your family as a way of life?

[@spiriteNsh1]

@@Terabapu3156 if you’re called to. If you feel inclined to put one sock on then a shoe vs both socks on and then both shoes. That’s just your way. We each have our own dharma

[@Terabapu3156]

@spiriteNsh1 what do you mean called to,called by whom when buddhism says there is no god?either god exists or not can't be both ways,if he exists buddhism is false.

[@spiriteNsh1]

@@Terabapu3156 just wanted to make clear God (YHWY) gave us free will.. that is to follow Him or disobey. We have a mind of our own. I’m not a devote Buddhism but ironically in reading the small amounts of Buddhism I have became a better Christian. You can’t argue that the mindfulness Buddhism brings does not draw you closer to receive God. Christian “churches” left me completely devoid of Spirit but learning more about how Buddhists connect with “Self” and acknowledging verses like Jeremiah 31:33, Ephesians 3:17-19, and 2 Corinthians 4:6-7 we can understand why the Pharisees who were intellectuals of God had no “room” for Him in their heart. Another way to think about it is like that of the double slit experiment. God exists inside and outside “existence” thus why He was flesh but isn’t just flesh. Arguably Buddhists in their walk are more Christ like than most Christians but truly are empty in their own ways but just because we are sinners doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist. Where then does knowledge come from and why? Why are we set apart from all other living beings. Just as in Matthew 7:22-23 it’s about our relationship. Buddhists may not all acknowledge God but it doesn’t detract from the truth of His existence. They seek to leave samsara and enter mukti or nirvana but by even desiring it they have to acknowledge it is a created sphere or plane etc. There is only so far one can go by themselves. Eventually, they will surrender and place their obedience in the One that is higher than themselves which is God as we are above angels. You can think of it like Plato’s allegory of the cave. One frees itself from confinement only to enter into an ever bigger confinement. One that can hold their ego in satisfaction and thus no longer a need to grow or let go. They’ve “achieved” their pseudo peace. There is darkness and void waiting and there is also light and life waiting. Eternal death or eternal life. Living hell or everlasting bliss. Simply meditating and being pleasant will satisfy cravings but will not bring you to the Kingdom. I can acknowledge the Buddha as one who might “free you from earth” but only Christ will guarantee your salvation into the Kingdom of God further within Heaven. I can testify personally of the miracles and blessings God has gifted me and when this body returns to dust I will return to my Creator renewed and restored.

[@Magnulus76]

Here's the big difference: in Buddhism you have the tools to actually experience Nirvana, and some people have actually experience this themselves, particularly advanced meditators in the deeper stages of the jhanas. Christianity doesn't generally have anything analogous. That is why Buddhism is not primarily a religion, but a practical philosophy first. Meditation has a profound and powerful effect that surpasses alot of what Christians consider "spiritual experiences". I realize these are all mental states that come from the Christians own mind, not from a god.

[@franciscoscaramanga9396]

I mean, you're wrong. Christianity isn't about transcendentalism; we're not trying to transcend. We're not trying to seek Nirvana. God calls us to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, and soul, and our neighbors as we do ourselves.

[@tsurugi5]

The Buddha recognized the moral validity of other religions but said that ultimately they're all unsatisfactory because they don't fix the problem of dukkha(suffering), so you could say that non-buddhists will suffer forever because no matter what they'll still cling to some notion of a self (it doesn't matter if they live in some hell or paradise because even these are still marked by dukkha). No one can save you according to the Buddha, even he can't, he can only point us the way in which we have to walk ourselves. This is why imo Buddhism is the more poignant way in that it recognizes the strength of the human potential for self-realization and action, and not relying on external forces for salvation.

[@omnijonn277]

​@@franciscoscaramanga9396What I like about Buddhism is it's more about meditation

[@saintsword23]

@@franciscoscaramanga9396 "Christianity isn't about transcendentalism" Well, no, this isn't exactly the case. It depends on which branch of Christianity you're subscribed to. Protestant Christianity took away a lot of the traditional striving for transcendence and made "salvation through faith alone" THE central part of its program, which just imo is really regrettable. But the Orthodox churches all still make striving for theosis a very central part of their tenets. Some branches of Catholicism maintain similar teachings too. The oldest forms of Christianity all teach some doctrine similar to theosis. Only Protestantism has this "salvation through faith alone" doctrine.

[@raphaelfeneje486]

​@@saintsword23 You're just a biased EO or RCC. Protestants strive more on spirituality than the EO or RCC. RCC and EO members mostly are ignorant of their belief. I'm a Protestant (A pentecostal) and I can tell you that the level of spirituality is astonishing. Don't come here acting as though Roman Catholics or orthodox are even spiritual.

[@ProfYaffle]

I have Buddhist friends and I find a lit of our practice is very similar to mine. Ironic because they left Christianity cos they didn't like the formality

[@repentantrevenant9776]

Are these videos released in podcast format? If not, I definitely think they would be well suited. I would love to subscribe to a Truth Unites podcast and listen on my commure without having to play the KZbin video.

[@TruthUnites]

Yes, you can see the details in the video description, I started a podcast for precisely this reason

[@zekdom]

11:52 - What makes Christianity stand out 15:56 - Christianity gives suffering a point

[@MRBosnoyan]

Thanks again Gavin. I was just listening to my wife parents (rural Japan) discussing people switching from Buddhism to Shintoism because it costs too much money to maintain their graves as buddhists. They call themselves “ Funeral or Ceremonial Buddhists” and pay money for prayers and different services the monks provide for their dead ancestors. Really hard to understand how the ancestor worship meshes with the idea of impermanence. They also pray and offer incense to their deceased relatives at least once a year at an elaborate altar they keep in the family head’s house.

[@Mygoalwogel]

Taiwanese Buddhist monasticism is every bit as corrupt as the monks in a Martin Luther movie.

[@tofuteh2348]

that's funny because many buddhists cremate themselves, including the buddha

[@shar5856]

I never heard it before. Maybe part of the Japanese culture.

[@jenniferjuarris1824]

Similar things happen here in mainland Southeast Asia(Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, Myanmar I can't speak for Vietnam though). People go to Buddhist temples and ALWAYS bring something like food or money to the monks so the monks will perform services such as praying for their ancestors, etc.

[@18890426]

You can never understand the true essence of a culture of a country you are not born into

[@garryrichardson4572]

Thank you. I have been praying and looking for a way to connect to my son’s Thai wife who is Buddhist. This helps me understand a lot. I identify as a white Christian man living in Australia 😂❤.

[@flyingmax9029]

I keep coming back to why would God send me to hell forever with the evidence I’ve seen in my limited life. I would think God would understand my doubts and have mercy. Why is believing in God so important to God?

[@briandiehl9257]

I agree, I think he will understand your doubts. However believing in God is also very important, because belief informs your actions, and you cannot commune with God if you do not think he exists

[@flyingmax9029]

@@briandiehl9257 I think I’m open to communication with God but I haven’t had a response yet therefore It’s hard for me to believe in a personal God.

[@briandiehl9257]

@@flyingmax9029 Yeah I completely understand. I haven't had anything truly miraculous. However I think you understand God's presence when you do His will

[@tylermcqueen232]

Great video. I'm a Buddhist surrounded by many Christians and often times find they don't understand me. I felt not only understood in this video, but like you represented my religion in a very kind way. Thank you for bringing unity rather than division.

[@TruthUnites]

thanks, so glad it came across that way!

[@wordscapes5690]

Seriously? You believe he represented the message of Blessed One even SLIGHTLY accurately? What form of Buddhism do you adhere to?

[@tylermcqueen232]

The kind of buddhism that doesn't create division within the sangha.

[@wordscapes5690]

@@tylermcqueen232 That’s Catholicism, friend. In Buddhism, Dhamma comes before sangha.

[@wordscapes5690]

@@tylermcqueen232 If the Buddhists of your sangha are persecuting minorities, you create division… very politely and firmly, but unequivocally. Always. No exceptions.

[@woodyexplorer]

A better summary of Buddhist teaching is the Podhipakiyatam 37. For example, to point out in a very short notion that life is suffering carries a wrong massage. The better one to discuss is the "three characters of things," which defines what Dhuka means.

[@Danielsan1223]

Nice video, and I appreciate your well-thought-out yet honest opinions. I agree with a lot of your analyses. I suppose I tend to agree with the Buddha's statement that thinking about metaphysical claims can be a waste of time if your only method of doing so is philosophy. The only way any metaphysical claim can have more light shown upon it is through science. If it's just philosophy, then it's just you making a lot of assumptions about how the mind-independent world works, whereas science takes experiments working in the mind-independent world that can show us mind-independent results. All religions, including Christianity, get into so many heated debates about so much stuff. Like the Calvinism & Arminianism debate over how a Christian conversion experience truly happens--is it God's predestination or the free will of the people? I know for the Pali Canonical Buddhist traditions, they support the view that the universe is only indivisible atomic events they call "dharmas" or "skandhas." Samsara is simply the universe of these skandhas, but we observe these atomic events through our illusory perceptions that brings about a world differences that creates a world of mostly craved attachment or hateful detachment. The Buddhist goal of Nirvana is a state of NON-ATTACHMENT (no craved attachment for anyone and no hateful detachment for anyone). But how is such a non-attachment possible? The Pali-Canonical Buddhist answer would be that in order to do this, a person has to see (and know through the four other senses--taste, touch, smell, and hearing) that everything is only these skandhas--so, all are atomic events and atomic events are all. So, in the end there is no impermanent person in this life and no permanent soul in the afterlife. Instead, both this life and the afterlife are streams of atomic events/skandhas. The same goes for everything around us--animals, trees, my desk, my laptop--are all just streams of atomic events. The next big question though is, "How does someone see the indivisible atomic realm, rather than the normal realm?" The answer is through Buddhist meditation, but unfortunately this is where my knowledge stops. But I will say I have meditated before with a Buddhist method, and I gotta say it sure did feel surreal! I didn't see atomic events, but I saw the forest I was meditating in become flattened--like my view went from 3D to 2D--and so all the colors of the forest and the sky and its clouds mixed together like they were on a flat paint canvas. There were also these drops of dew all over the bushes and tree leaves, and because I was meditating in a spot with sunshine and shade optics, the dewdrops kept blinking in-and-out as they shook back and forth between the sunlight and shade. It was such a wonderful experience that it made me cry. There was something else that meditation scene made me think of but I'd rather share it only with my close ones, like friends and family. 🙂

[@aarongebreslasie7677]

Dr. Ortuland can you recommend some books as l am ignorant of Buddism?

[@derekmchardy8730]

I found 'Spirituality Without God' by Netland and Yandell very informative and helpful. It's written from a Christian perspective but is respectful and seems ( but I'm no expert) well informed. God bless.

[@chhmar99utube]

People who look at nibhana/nirvana as if it is eternal bliss have never been enclosed for 10 minutes in a lead chamber. It's a lie.

[@godsgospelgirl]

15:46 I love this ❤ ✝️

[@kw1ksh0t]

It would be interesting for you to consider Pure Land Buddhism, particularly Jodo Shinshu, and how it relates to your faith in Christianity

[@supalive3335]

To all people not know, The goal of buddha is to teach us to find happiness and the last state is enlightenment. What is happiness? We have different thought, some people said my happiness is money and some said my happiness is stay alone in quiet place, and some people my happiness is woman. And some other my happiness is depend on other. So what the heck all of these! This shown that happiness we mean wasn't real its just what we think. Buddhism rules is: nothing is gonna last forever. Which mean everything is gonna last forever. Even something we used to good at but we forgot it now. And even sad or happy its is just cycle. What is nirvana? In real life we have eyes to see sight, ear to hear sound, nose to smell, tongue to taste, body know the hot sof hard, and the mind is response to that! That is the ultimate, and our mind start to hate or love on sight, hate or love on sound, hate or love taste, hate or love smelll, hate or love on soft and hot and hard. That is the work of mind. To understand the nirvana, you need to know and understand the 31 realms or dimensions different, that is the place that we keep reborn and death endlessly can't be count as number. The realm of hell, the realm of animal and human, the realm of god, the realm of brahma,... But all we know is The work of body is move. The work of mind is think.

[@ericwatts8599]

Thank you so much for this video--this is exactly what I was looking for. Very insightful and deep comparison, as well as respectful. Buddhism definitely helps me navigate Christianity. And like, you, although I find Buddhism fascinating (and I would say I love some aspects of it) I simultaneously find it a little tragic as you've pointed out in your video. You proposed a universe in which Christianity is correct, but you didn't do it the other way around. Maybe some Buddhists find it tragic that we, as Christians, strive for this goal of cessation of suffering only to die a misguided life, and misguided death.

[@philv2529]

"Americans will believe anything if they think a Buddhist monk said it." -a Buddhist monk

[@milady_kazuko]

Our age koan, beautiful ⚘️

[@donapperson848]

Americans will believe anything if they hear it enough times - even obvious lies

[@Mark-cd2wf]

“I could never myself believe in God, if it were not for the cross. The only God I believe in is the One Nietzsche ridiculed as 'God on the cross.' In the real world of pain, how could one worship a God who was immune to it? I have entered many Buddhist temples in different Asian countries and stood respectfully before the statue of the Buddha, his legs crossed, arms folded, eyes closed, the ghost of a smile playing round his mouth, a remote look on his face, detached from the agonies of the world. But each time after a while I have had to turn away. And in imagination I have turned instead to that lonely, twisted, tortured figure on the cross, nails through hands and feet, back lacerated, limbs wrenched, brow bleeding from thorn-pricks, mouth dry and intolerably thirsty, plunged in Godforsaken darkness. That is the God for me! He laid aside his immunity to pain. He entered our world of flesh and blood, tears and death. He suffered for us. Our sufferings become more manageable in the light of his. There is still a question mark against human suffering, but over it we boldly stamp another mark, the cross that symbolizes divine suffering. 'The cross of Christ ... is God’s only self-justification in such a world” as ours....' 'The other gods were strong; but thou wast weak; they rode, but thou didst stumble to a throne; But to our wounds only God’s wounds can speak, And not a god has wounds, but thou alone.” John Stott

[@Mygoalwogel]

Yup. Me too. I only believe in God because Jesus grabs my conscience by the throat.

[@Magnulus76]

John Stott is a small, ignorant man confusing his psychological hangups with some kind of transcedent knowledge.

[@SS-mz4hz]

Thanking God for you🙏

[@EveryTongue]

🔥

[@apologeticsofemptiness]

About the general (and biased) idea, repeated in this video, that Buddhism is pessimistic, all centered on the extinction of "desire", you should check out some of the writing from the elder nuns and monks (ex: therigatha) with their very colorful depictions of joy, extasy, and faith in the Buddha.

[@lesscott4301]

4I was brought up as a Christian and became an atheist as I pitched my growing scientific knowledge against the contents of the Bible (King James version) which I could no longer believe.. However, I became aware of my spirituality, which was personal to me, and for a long time, I used to ask this atheist me, 'Am I really a Buddhist?' Once I had read the Buddha's discourse to the Kalamas, I knew the answer to that. This sutta, sometimes known as the 'The Buddha's Charter of Free Inquiry' allows us to question everything and take nothing presented to us as 'The Truth', until we have dissected it and examined it completely. I've examined Christianity and now I am examining Buddhism. So I now go to the Buddha for refuge🙏☸️

[@thomasfolio7931]

I do enjoy Dr. O's poorly videos. While the content is usually poorly researched and biased, it helps me to understand the mindset that develops from many of the Protestant modes of thinking. Having encountered both the professors and students from Fuller and a couple of other Protestant Seminaries, the encounters I had were so varied, that they did not help me with this as much as watching many many of his videos. I could be wrong, but Dr. O seems to start with a premise, as he does with Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Baptism, or other subjects, gives a superficial overview of the other side's beliefs, omitting the entire thought process of the arguments of the opponent and then providing one or two opinions that seem to support what he wants to address, ignoring the entire corpus or context in which he quotes a limited portion. I do have to admit, his style is less abrasive as others, and he has the air of having researched his topic, but in the end (at least to my fallible self) does not really come off as convincing when you look behind the smoke and mirrors, and actually read the proofs he offers within their context. To this video. I would have liked to have heard a little bit about Buddhism, the life of Siddhartha was nice for an introductory video, but the actual teachings of Buddhism were glossed over, and not at all comprehensive, even his comparison of Christianity was lacking. It would not have taken much time to instruct the listeners that when Siddhartha died, his teachings were transmitted for the first one or two generations orally, then much like Christianity were later committed to writing, So too like Christianity, Buddhism in the first one hundred years or so started to split into various sects each accepting all the Sutras or canon of Buddhist Scripture that had been committed to writing, but each school focused on one or another aspect of the teachings proposing it was the essential teaching. While there are hundreds of different sects of Buddhism, it parallels Christianity in that it can be classified into two major groups, much like the Catholic/Orthodox and the Protestant sects. Mahayana Buddhism and Hinayana One which like Protestants says put your faith in the Buddha (here you have to choose between Siddhartha or one of the other Buddhas to take you to the state of Nirvana, which may take many lifetimes of practice) The other which teaches that all of creation has the Buddha nature, and by your faith and practice you become awakened to the reality of your own innate Buddhahood and that of all others, (other humans, animals, plants and physical creation like mountains and springs). For some the abstaining from meats, fasting and other mortifications of the flesh augment the Buddha's grasp on you to take you to the Buddha land. For the others the requirements are to take faith and refuge in the Buddha, chant his (depending on which one your sect worships) name and transforming yourself into a Buddha. This second group tends to focus on the predictions of Siddhartha that other Buddhas will come when the Populus is ready for more instruction. Siddhartha the Buddha, Dr, O overlooks that Siddhartha teaches that he had been a Buddha from a distant time in the past, and his advent at this time and place was to instruct the people in what they were ready to learn and understand. It does not stop there, He also teaches that there are thousands of Buddhas, each who has a special mission to groups at different times and places who are ready to hear one or another aspect of the teaching.

[@user-lc8rb4ju5s]

If you want to study medicine, don't go for a mechanic's consultation. If you want to learn Buddhism, don't go for a Christian's consultation.

[@user-vt3vg4xs2t]

Are you a Baptist or a Presbyterian? And how can I contact you? Do you have a Facebook?

[@seans.1331]

I think there is more in common than you give it credit for. For example, the Buddhist is equally longing and desiring happiness and joy, but finds its fulfillment in Nirvana. There is a case to be made (though I don't wish to make it) that phenomenologically heaven and nirvana are similar, if not identical. The Christian who gets closest to this take on Buddhism, in my reading, is Metropolitan Hierotheos. He see Christianity more as a method of healing than as metaphysics (very similar to the Buddha, in that regard, though he would disclaim the similarity, as far as I understand). Like another commenter, I was going to mention hesychasm. Theosis is also worth considering (deification/divinization). Bishop Barron has a brief clip on KZbin comparing Buddhism to Christianity; he said a way of comparison may be through Thomas Merton and the notion that we are to eliminate sort of our base desires, though not our desires as such. Also worth considering is 'apatheia' as found in the Fathers, the notion that we are to purify our hearts of passions. So, there is more commonality, in my opinion (not getting into the differences). The point of contrast that resonated most with me is between eliminating suffering and using our suffering in a glorifying manner; I believe that is an important contrast (but there again, you should probably consult an expert on Buddhism to ensure you are being just to their views, friend!). Thanks so much, Gavin. I pray you and your family recover from covid soon. Peace of the Lord.

[@rogerparada4995]

At 7:00, you comment on how studying another religion can help us better understand our own. This is the same appeal that the Jesuit missionary, Desideri, attempted to make to the Buddhist scholars of Tibet to encourage them to look in to Christianity. “It is like having two butter lamps burning in a single room, or one gold or silver ring shining with the light of two diamonds” He even noted that studying an inferior tradition could be of value. “Even though… iron, copper, wood… are deficient and degenerate compared to gold… some can be used as a tool r means to discover gold” This is what I am finding as I’m slowly beginning to learn about Buddhism. One can’t help but admire some of the traditions and be enriched in one’s own distinct faith.

[@SG-gq2rf]

A comment from a Buddhist. The distinction you draw between Buddhism seeking to put out desire Vs Christianity fulfilling it by removing impediments is ultimately semantic. To begin with, it is not desire per se that is the problem in Buddhism, it is desire for the limited that can never satisfy us. By extinction of desire is meant this kind. By definition, a Buddhist needs to desire liberation to attain it, and liberation is the attaining of the absolute where there is no limitation. If Buddhism only believed in the existence of the finite , then yes desire could never be satisfied and would need to be put out. To the Christian I say, it is actually you who make it impossible to attain the infinite and the absolute, since you must and do claim that you will remain a finite creature in the afterlife, and you will be one of many, and will interacting with finite things and environments with an Infinite God there as well, who you could never even know fully given that you are finite. In Buddhism there is no division or limit, or time. It might seem austere, but this is because ironically, you deem your souls and persons as if they were god, eternal egos in need of something to satisfy you. If you are given satisfying food as the pastor says, it is only in the limited mouths of these egos (whether these are healthy or not) so you can never have ultimate happiness.

[@doeurksena6103]

Just a point of view : A very very ancient point of view which derived from Sanskrit as root - it has divided the human brain into two parts and from which we got - 1 is Intellectual knowledge and 2 is spiritual wisdom - the former is from the brain and the later is from perceiving from pineal gland (the experience is excluding all 5 perceptions as well as all logical reasoning.) For those who can perceive the later can see that all religions is just one religion and everything is all one which is Truth (this word cannot be defined with any human language as well as Maths.) Thus for most of us who can only conceive from our brain, we cannot see the unity of things, for our Senses, our Ego, our Impulses, our Emotions and logical Intellectual box would not permit us to do that, and to do so one has to overcome all these things within the brain and that is almost impossible for most of us : i.e. overcoming "Apasmāra", the little ugly guy lies underneath Lord Shiva dancing the cosmic dance right foot (he is known in the ancient Western countries as "Rex Mundi" or "King of the World".

[@ConciseCabbage]

Be sure to check out (1) the book Meaning of Christ: A Mahayana Theology by John Keenan, (2) the Pure Lands tradition of Buddhism, and (3) the Tibetan Book of the Dead (it is oddly compatible with Christianity. Especially in regard to Knowing, Remembering, and what “enlightment” actually is)

[@ConciseCabbage]

also (4) The Unexpected Way by Paul Williams. He wrote a book about his conversion from buddhism to catholicism

[@saintsword23]

Over time I've gained respect for Christian contemplatives. They're doing good work even if I disagree with them metaphysically. Bernadette Roberts is one of my top three authors of all time really. The biggest reason I follow (Theravada) Buddhism over, say, Christianity, is that you don't have to subscribe to the Buddha's metaphysics in order to see it work. You just do meditation and it's immediately obvious that what Buddhism is saying has some truth to it. The mind is wild and uncontrolled. It needs to be trained. Much of the metaphysical interpretation about kamma and rebirth being literal is often considered teachings for the common folk who don't get deeper into the Buddha's teaching (although this point is controversial within Buddhism!). There's some very well respected monks, like Ajahn Buddhadasa, who made a point of interpreting key Buddhist concepts in terms of this life and what we can know here and now. Further, it's really obvious that craving is at the root of suffering. The Buddha is right about this: craving and suffering really are synonyms. That's what suffering literally is: being attached to wanting something different than what is already the case. Note that this is different than desire. Desire is just wanting something...but if you aren't attached to getting your way there's really no suffering as you can just let it go. It's that attachment that turns desire into craving, and that's suffering. The problem I have with Christianity is that it demands you subscribe to its metaphysics before you can see any benefits. You have to believe in God for prayer to have meaning, you have to believe in Jesus being the sacrifice in order to let go of worry over your sins, and so on. Christianity has this whole set of unprovable promises that you just have to believe...and you only get feedback about your rightness or wrongness when you die. Buddhism doesn't have this. It says, "Here, if you do this, you can verify for yourself, in this life, this is true. Some of it requires intense training before you can see, but there are things right now you can understand." You don't have to stake your whole life and afterlife on "guessing correct." You can verify for yourself in Buddhism. But again, I have a lot of respect for the Christian contemplatives. I love the practice of surrender, the practice of emptying one's will and letting it fill with the Will of God. From what I can tell, this is the same endpoint of letting go of craving, as the Will of God must be synonymous with "What actually is" (What could actually act against the Will of Almighty God?). In Byron Katie's terms, it's ending our argument with reality, and that's the end of suffering!

[@relajado-fx5rf]

We don't currently have Jesus walking around in this world, but the knowledge of good and evil shows that there is a God. Yes suffering is a result of sin and it doesn't go away after being forgiven because others (and ourselves) still sin and continue to corrupt to the world. But since Jesus rose from the dead, we can have hope that what He says is true: that He is the way, truth, and life, and that He will end evil once and for all.

[@saintsword23]

@@relajado-fx5rf How in the world does the knowledge of good and evil prove God? And just what is sin?

[@relajado-fx5rf]

@@saintsword23 The fact that there is good and evil shows that there is higher power that created good and evil. Sin is falling short of God's glory

[@saintsword23]

@@relajado-fx5rf "The fact that there is good and evil shows that there is higher power that created good and evil." I don't see this as the case. First, you're thinking of good and evil like they're Platonic forms - concrete objects just as real as a table or tree. But this isn't the case. They're concepts. They're abstractions. We've moved on from Platonism as of the 14th century with William of Ockham and his idea of nominalism. And it seems quite clear that it's human minds that made good and evil. In fact, this is how I understand the Garden of Eden story. Before Adam and Eve made up this concept of separating good from bad, separating "what I want" from "what is already happening," they lived in paradise. Only when they started saying, "It's good when things are the way I want them to be. It's evil when the world is not the way I want it to be" that they were then thrown out of paradise. "Sin is falling short of God's glory" What does that mean? Can you put this in more ordinary language?

[@anthonywong1781]

I think the Buddha does hit the nail on the head in terms of the current condition of human flesh. Having tasted both sides of the extreme of fleshly experiences, that is, sensual indulgence and asceticism, it makes a lot of sense why he eventually came to the conclusion that this life is complete suffering since he was convinced that there was absolutely nothing he could do in mere flesh and blood that could actually deliver him from this feeling of suffering he had experienced. What fascinates me about the 4 noble truths is that he identified the source of the problem but he was also painfully aware that there wasn't a solution as far as the current human flesh is concerned. All he could do was sap himself from the inside by eliminating his desires while blocking everything from the outside by realizing that his senses and his identity are empty. Death is cruel and inevitable, but life isn't any more than another misery. This is what I call a voluntary withdrawal from being a contributor to the sins of the world, as well as a silent resistance to the invitation from the world to participate in its evil conduct. I think the Buddha saw through the corrupted nature of this flesh and blood so much so that he simply didn't bother to do anything with it at all; he would still do good but not for the sake of getting a reward since he knew more than anyone else that nothing good will last; all that he would do was to make sure that he could be free from the ultimate misery of death as well as the utter misery of living life in this corrupted flesh over and over again. I really think the Buddha actually understood sin and flesh far better than most of us Christians will ever do. Given all that said, this is also why I believe that, among the Christian denominations, only the Eastern Orthodox's view of the Eucharist can actually deliver as powerful a solution to the suffering of the world as the Buddha's quest for truth demanded. The current human flesh and blood have no life in themselves that they could raise themselves up above their own plight. Only when God assumed flesh, suffering with and for miserable flesh even to the point of death only to raise it back up in the power of the Holy Spirit to a renewed and glorified condition might this corrupted condition be changed for the better once and for all. That glorified flesh and blood of Christ are ready to be offered from heaven to Earth to transform the miserable flesh of all creation for the better: where there used to be evil desires and cravings consistently there could be heavenly fulfillment and peace, and where there used to be tremendous pain and suffering there could be heavenly bliss and joy. All this could be enjoyed now on Earth as we come to partake in the bread and cup through faith, we don't have to wait till we go to heaven to channel such power. I really appreciate the Orthodox for using leavened bread during the Eucharist as a reminder that it's the resurrected glorified body of Christ that we are partaking to avail ourselves of. We cannot raise up our own flesh and blood above our own suffering, but Christ has already won the victory for us. The sacrifice he paid on the cross he died to that deathly miserable condition of the flesh once and for all, but the life he now lives he dignified human flesh and blood as forever holy before God. The solution the Buddha had been looking for, I believe is found right here in the Eucharist, the center of Christian life and worship. But on one point I insist: unless we see the Eucharist in light of Jesus' resurrection and ascension like the Orthodox, we will have a hard time convincing the Buddhists that the solution Christians offer is at least on par with the problem they've been desperate to solve.

[@wordscapes5690]

I want you to notice how your description - a very thoughtful and beautiful one - begins with practical and rational explanations regarding the origin of "unsatisfactoriness" (suffering) in the world, according to the Buddha, and then, as you begin describing the superiority of the Christian doctrine (Orthodox or otherwise), you need to call upon supernatural events, esoteric and magical occurrences, mysteries, and miracles, and dogmas in order to "fill in" those parts that do not work when you wish to arrive at your conclusion - the escape from suffering and the liberation of humankind. It's as if you use precise and neat mathematics at the beginning, and then, when you divert from the Buddha's descriptions, you resort to smudgy finger-painting at the end. This is exactly the kind of thing that the Buddha found so damaging within Hinduism. I do hope this does not offend you - it is my honest opinion of what I perceived.

[@anthonywong1781]

@@wordscapes5690 I appreciate your honesty. And don't worry, I am not offended at all, but I am afraid you were offended reading my comment. It seems to me that you were specifically looking for a set of purely rational arguments for how to escape suffering. Unfortunately, that simply isn't what I had in mind to begin with. I was just speaking on Buddhism from a particular Christian perspective and my understanding living as a Christian. Never was it my intention to begin with a definition of suffering and build up a logically coherent system on how to deal with suffering, much less by means of escaping. In fact, My point is quite the opposite - you cannot avoid suffering so long as you are alive, whether you like it or not. So before you die, you will have to suffer, although you still have a life to live. Then how could you deal with this suffering, which you would have to go through anyway, while pressing on toward a fulfilling life? This is where I compared the solution offered by the Buddha and that offered by a particular form of Christianity. And I am not ashamed to uphold the Christian position over the Buddhist one, although I do see values in the latter that could in a sense offer more than does the former. If you want a perfectly logical chain of reasoning, then I am afraid you are in a wrong place

[@wordscapes5690]

@@anthonywong1781 Not offended. I only wished to point out that the point of Buddha Dharma is liberation from wickedness using a methodology that does not rely on esoteric wish fulfillment or impossible prayers and their improbable answers. It does not require faith. It does not even require grace or belief. Only practice. It also does not contain the escape- clause of “just believe and receive” which pardons (at any point in life) even the most heinous abuser of his crimes and karma, which is to promote a very materialist sense of justice. Instead it provides a very real and practical way toward betterment, without the usual regulatory taboos and prejudices inherent in tribal gods and goddesses that make up the entirety of deistic faiths. It is hard to explain this to non Buddhists. If you have never practiced actual meditation or experienced even a single jhana, it is hard to share with you the extreme benefits (in the here and now) of Buddha Dharma. You need not even give up your deistic beliefs to experience it. It is far beyond religion.

[@Ben-jr6vl]

There is the solution to suffering in Bhuddism, it is the 8 fold path. Enlightenment is the end of all suffering

[@johnCjr4671]

Is it not possible to believe in both ?

[@alexandretremblay120]

Can I be a catholic and practice Buddhism ?

[@gatheringstormlol]

Yes. Buddhism can be seen as a philosophy, Buddha isn’t a god so this doesn’t contradict with your religion and a lot of the values are shared in both

[@simplelight1]

Hello, I would like to point out that the Buddha himself speaks of the cyclical decline of the Dharma, a gradual forgetting or distortion over a period of time. So what you know about Buddhism could very well be just an echo and a distortion of what the Buddha affirmed and taught. And this goes for all those on the internet that speak of Buddhism and compare and contrast it with their religion. My point is just be mindful of this, thank you.

[@tenzingsherpa4157]

Self is illusion in the ultimate sense, self does exist in this world. Self, I, me are ego produced by thoughts. Here desire is the essence of thought and to understand that nature of thought is to be understood. Thought is universal to all mankind, along with 6 sense like eye, body etc. So when you understand that you will find death itself is a not a problem at all.

[@ShimmerBodyCream]

I think there are tons of parallels between Christ's teachings and Buddhas - altho the theology itself and presuppositions are different

[@Flashbagfolly]

From what I understand, the Buddha says that when you quit desire, you find bliss. It is very far from tragic.

[@peterjs007]

I've been doing some reading on Buddhism to understand it at a basic level. I find Buddhism to be nihilistic with the way it considers suffering and the self, relative to Christianity (for the reasons you express from 12:31) And its metaphysics are relatively limited and vague on bigger questions. I think there is an appeal to the post modern western mind to doing away with the question of God and a self lead spiritual journey though.

[@gatheringstormlol]

Fair enough. Just have a little bit more reading on Buddhism. Think of it as just another philosophy. You don’t have to follow it if you don’t ultimately agree with its teachings or the way of life

[@thuscomeguerriero]

Good job here sir. I would add that the demands of renunciation are essential to each discipline. Christ made it clear in the Gospels, (I believe) that there is a cost to inheriting the kingdom of God..and the cost is.. everything!! Jesus said "It is easier for a camel to go thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to inherit the kingdom of God". The Lord told the rich man to "sell all you have, give it to the poor and you shall have treasure in heaven". He said, "what will it profit a man if he gain the whole world and forfeits his own soul"". My favorite, by far is the story of the man who stumbled on to treasure..buried it..sold all he had and bought that field. The reason I 💕 that story is because no one else can See the value of that field! The treasure is buried (I would say in our hearts) which none other can see, and therefore makes us seem a fool for selling all and buying a seemingly worthless asset. The importantance of worldly renunciation is absolutely key in both religions to happinesses 🥰

[@ceeemm1901]

Read Thomas Merton....

[@noself7889]

If one really studied various religions, each uses a different term for the same realization.

[@Ben-jr6vl]

It is likely that Jesus was a once returner, which means he will become a Bhudda when he returns in his next life. The dharma is immaculate without flaw, it is true not false. Follow the eight fold noble path to enlightenment to be free of suffering and rebirth

[@mrfake675]

Nope. He's the messiah. Buddha's should follow Jesus.

[@dataxglobal]

Christianity isn't even a western way of thinking. It's a middle eastern of thinking.

[@0dteESmini]

the path is narrow, Jesus is the only way. Because he is God in flesh. Buddha is a distraction and a selfish way to go to hell

[@captainfordo1]

The thing about Buddhism is that you practically have to live a perfectly good life in order to achieve Nirvana. If you’re not a perfectly good person, you’ll be reincarnated. It’s not worth the countless lifetimes of suffering, not to quench it with eternal joy, but to just eliminate your being altogether. In Christianity, you don’t have to do anything to achieve eternal joy and rest. God has done it for us. We’re so blessed to have such a good God!

[@user-Void-Star]

There is western Paradise in Buddhism it's called buddha Amithaba's Western Pureland. You don't need to be perfect to be born there you just need faith and a good heart you will be born there.

[@Magnulus76]

@@user-Void-Star Yes, that's what most Buddhists actually practice. Tthe Pure Land teaching is a door to the Dharma.

[@tsurugi5]

define a "perfectly good life"

[@shehansoysa571]

No, you really don't have to be a perfectly good person to achieve enlightenment. The Buddha himself didn't live a "perfectly" good life when he achieved enlightenment. Its through the process of enlightenment that one gains perfect understanding of nature and his own being. For example, Angulimala, a literally serial killer became enlightened after renouncing violence and becoming a monk.

[@indi3101]

totally wrong

[@Shaolin-Jesus]

Its very refreshing to find a Christian perspective that isn't so hellbent on demonizing other religions..... sadly, Christianity has been highly misrepresented by this mentality. coming from a very fundamentalist introduction to Christianity, I found it profound to seemingly experience the holy spirit reveal to me the striking contrasts between the "fruits of the spirit" and the "noble eightfold path" this speaks to something much deeper within religion and spirituality - GNOSIS here, we can begin to transcend the box modality of religion. conversion is a very big problem for humanity spiritually.

[@smlanka4u]

I published my research about the existence of the universe (quantum stuff). If ignorence is a bliss, then you can don't care investigating it.

[@davidjanbaz7728]

You sound very smart!

[@smlanka4u]

@@davidjanbaz7728, It doesn't matter. But thanks. According to abhidhamma there are 4 fundamental natures in the universe called "Paramartha Dharma". Those four ultimate realities are known as Rupa (4 fundamental + 24 material forms in number), Chaitasika (52), Chittha and Nibbana. There are 28 material forms including the 4 great fundamental material forms with 24 other material forms. According to my calculations there are 4 fundamental dimensional sets (elements) and 48 other dimensional sets which are 24 pairs on same dimensional structure in each 2 sets (two dimensional-sets like electric and magnetic) in matter area of the dimensional structure (1st solution), so there are 28 material forms in the dimensional structure too.

[@saddha1]

Hi there, I’ve experienced the entire New Testament after taking refuge in The Buddha alone. That is why Jesus said only those who know me knows the one who sent me. Buddha is the Holy Spirit and Father. His children are called Buddha’s words or logos. Love Buddha, love Jesus! I know both love us infinitely. I’ll forever honor them!

[@0dteESmini]

Turn to God, and deny Buddha's satanic teachings. He was a confused man. There is no point in finding a comfortable way to live on earth to end up in hell. That is what satan wants and Buddha has laid out a beautiful print to follow

[@vacana2701]

Why is it always the same mistranslation or misinterpretation? Buddha never said life is suffering and never said desire is the cause of suffering too.

[@danielpech6521]

Here is a comparison to the opposite extreme for Genesis 1: Imagine if humanity, from the beginning, has lived bound inside a Star Trek-like space ship stranded far away from any galaxy. This ship has every artificial system required for our biological survival and increase. It even has an automated system for expanding ship to comfortably accept such increase. And, just like in the Star Trek universe, all those systems would require our work, toil, and expertise for maintenance. In short, we would have to earn our right even to breathe. So the deepest difference to the Star Trek universe is that this space ship version of humanity would have no natural knowledge of a watery-planet-based, star-orbiting way of life. For instance, the ship's ambient thermal systems are separate from its lighting systems, and the latter produces nearly no heat while the former produces none of the kind of light by which we see. So, despite having all the perfectly synthesized food they could ever need, they would know nothing of flora, much less what flora has to do with light and heat. Thus, upon their finding a copy of Genesis 1, they would say: 'What is all this about water? How can water be more important than atmospheric pressure, the latter of which this strange account does not even mention? It goes on about things it calls “land”, “sea” “flora”, “birds”, “fish”, and “land animals”. But it does not once point out the universal need for sealed outer bulkheads. It does not once mention the need for the expertise and toil to maintain gravity generators. It surely is a fantasy account, and a weird one at that.' So a non-terrestrial 'way of life' does not provide for any of our most crucial natural needs. It may keep us biologically alive, but only by deeply contorting our sense of metaphysics and ethics. One can imagine the kind of 'warm and welcoming' messages cross-stitched onto the plagues that hang from the walls of the ship's many Family Dining Rooms: 'Breathing is not a natural right, but an earned privilege.'

[@christianstephens7213]

Eastern Christianity pushes towards something deeper than the beatic vision , to full union with through Christ .

[@blorkpovud1576]

You referring to Eastern Orthodox? Or like... EAST eastern?

[@richardsire6332]

Where does the idea of justification and the cross fall into your theology which seems like from this video is focused more on longing for heaven than saving lost and blind sinners from the power and penalty of their sin?

[@lesliegries8625]

As a Buddhist the problem with Christian analyses of Buddhism always comes down to discovering that Buddhism is not Christianity. Wow! Shocking! Neews flash: many Eastern philosophies are not dogmaticly based, they are practices. When a Christian will spen a year meditating 20 minutes daily (while still attending to his/her regular practices) I will happily hear about their experiences because you can't experience Buddhism by reading about it; you also must understand that while there is a talk given at most Buddhist services: after group meditation which can last from 20 minutes to most of the day there is then open commentary on that talk by the congregation immediately: we come together to meditate the talk is not the focus and there may or may not be some dogma but one is free to take that for what it is worth: in daily praxtice your average Buddhist spends little time if any on anything dogma related. I would invite any curious person to attend a Buddhist service, i am sure there is one near you or to pick up a Buddhist text weitten by an actual Buddhist: Robert Aitken is a nice starting point.

[@blorkpovud1576]

@Methodius ☦️ ok?

[@cosmic_order]

Have you looked into the distinctives of Shin Buddhism at all? It presents the most challenging counterexample to the uniqueness of the Gospel. I'm actually surprised that I haven't heard it brought up more as an objection to the claim that the Gospel is fundamentally unique. They essentially believe that enlightenment can't be achieved by human effort, but that there is a cosmic Buddha who loves humanity and will grant them enlightenment as a free gift.

[@zekdom]

Interesting. While I think the free gift aspect of Christianity is part of what makes it unique, I would say it boils down to a man dying for our sins so we could have reconciliation with God. So my question would be this: is there any other religion where someone died for our sins/mistakes in order to cleanse us, and rose from the dead?

[@cosmic_order]

@@zekdom The means through which grace was made available for us is indeed distinct from the means through which Shin Buddhists claim the gift of enlightenment is made available to them. Jesus dying made it possible for us to have mercy while still satisfying the demands of justice, whereas their cosmic buddha isn't even operating within a moral framework, necessarily. However, there are unique things about every religion. The reason why I bring up grace as the fundamental distinction of christianity is because it is often claimed, at least within evangelical circles, that all religions fall into two categories, grace-based and human righteousness-based. Christianity is claimed to be the only religion that is founded on grace and all other religions have a fundamentally different foundation, in that they all depend on human goodness and effort for salvation (whatever their idea of salvation is). I still think that the gospel is fundamentally unique but it will take more work to prove that if someone is aware of this apparent exception.

[@zekdom]

@@cosmic_order I hear ya. I responded because I’ve been thinking about this lately - as to how the gospel is distinct - and I think Christ dying for our sins and reconciliation is the key difference. Your explanation of Shin Buddhism gave me clarity. Thanks, Ziggy.

[@davidjanbaz7728]

@@zekdom Jesus was an incarnation of two nature's in one person: he was not just a man!

[@zekdom]

@@davidjanbaz7728 Ah, good point. I accepted the Trinity recently, so I’m still new to the language.

[@yoiashi]

Where did Bible say u will have infinite joy when u get to heaven?????