Buddy Sour Horses: How-to Fix, Part I

Hi and welcome! This video not only shows how I deal with buddy sour horses, it explains and demonstrates my strategy to fixing the issue.
This specific buddy sour issue is about mares and geldings being too possessive and territorial. They need to be pastured together, ridden together and stalled together. So, what do we do about this unwanted and potentially dangerous behavior?
First, let me introduce the two horses and their owner, Jeaneen. Leeta, the black Arabian is the mare and Callan, the golden Rocky is the gelding. While Leeta can be very “marish” during her heat cycle, Callan can act very “studdish” or stallion-like around Leeta. Neither one acts this way around other mares and geldings, leading me to believe they genuinely like one-another. While I appreciate their feelings toward one another, this behavior presents a huge problem for the stable and herd.
Both horses have spent time with me in training and know me and my way of being and working well and that is where you need to begin first, with a solid level of education with each horse. Establishing rapport and education with each horse first and individually is what will allow you to work with them together. The level of education should be strong enough to be considered foundation training which not only teaches your horse specific skills and behaviors, it develops a great relationship with them too.
WARNING: I want to emphasize how dangerous it can be working with two buddy sour horses together. I do not recommend it until you have a strong and solid working relationship with each one individually. Then introduce the two of them together and while leading, online, so you have control. Establish respect for you and leadership first, individually then together and online before together and free in a round pen.
To learn the “how-to” join my NEW MasteryMembership™ Program
www.taoofhorsemanship.com/mas...

[@lauraburton9179]

Love language and leadership in equal doses. And excellent energy control; timing is everything!

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

Hi Laura and Welcome! Yes it is! Excellent points, thank you!

[@dreamcometrue2498]

I'm so glad that I found your videos. You're absolutely amazing!

[@shano92107]

Wow…. This is like senior final exam. Impressive levels of control and confidence, completely beyond my ability but your commentary and explanation is super instructive

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

Hi Shano and Welcome! Thanks! Horses are complicated for sure. I was overwhelmed myself coming back into horses many years ago. I got threw it by keeping an open mind and a humble attitude. I wanted to learn everything I could and of course I'm still learning!

[@shano92107]

@@TaoofHorsemanship I’m just starting out at 59. Hard work, frustration, setbacks… punctuated by ‘aha!’ moments and confidence inspiring trail rides - keeps me motivated 🙂 Glad i found your channel!

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

@@shano92107 Me too! I look forward to being part of your journey and success! Should you want more training, I offer a video library www.taoofhorsemanship.com/video-library and a riding foundation program www.taoofhorsemanship.com/masterymembership/

[@lindamcbeth9739]

excellent and bravo Janine! I love this as i have 3 mares and this will be extremely helpful.

[@sidilicious11]

Very well explained and put into practice. Thanks!

[@stephaniedavis7033]

thx 4 the share, I remember an old horse woman from the 70's calling it "proud cut" from not being gelded fully, can be dangerous. blessings n safety always!

[@bronwynmines7864]

Caroline THANK YOU so so much x

[@luzmarinabarreto4752]

Amazing!!!! Thank you Caroline!!!

[@Paintedbandit]

I absolutely love this!! Already incorporated some of this, but its nice to see how particular you are being! Thanks for the video!

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

Hi Paintedbandit and Welcome! Great to hear this is working for you!

[@canyonoutdoors8923]

I love your videos!

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

Hi Canyon and Welcome! Great to hear and thank you! If you want to learn more and are interested in the full length training videos, please check out my video library www.taoacademy-horse-training-courses.com/courses.

[@1234ballondyr]

Thank you so mutch🙏

[@carmenslee6234]

Excellent. I’m going to do this with my Haflinger mare and my Pre gelding, eventually. I need to get them better individually first.

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

Hi Carmen and Welcome! Great to hear! And, yes you need to work with them individually so you can connect and stay connected in the work. The horses in this video, along with every horse I've worked with, go through my educational sustem and approach. Click here for my step-by-step system www.taoofhorsemanship.com/masterymembership.

[@azpatriotgal321]

My mare has been getting more & more aggressive with my gelding, to the point that I'm very afraid he's going to get hurt. I've begun stepping in to stop her, but didn't think I could make any long-lasting changes in her behavior. This has given me hope that with the proper reinforcement, I can make some needed changes. Thank you for the video...it makes a lot of sense!

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

Hi LM Lamken and Welcome! Great to hear! Keep me posted!

[@BigWheelHawaii]

This Woman Is Remarkable,,, I Was Born and Raised On a Cattle Ranch,,, and I Know Nothing, Compared To This Woman... She Speaks Horse,,, Not English,,, But Horse... Remarkable Woman,,,,

[@tennesseegirl5539]

AMAZING

[@bronwynmines7864]

Wonderful advice here Caroline 👏🙌 My mare can’t stand when I take her paddock mate gelding out for a ride !!! She screams & runs around the paddock 😱 I separated them where they can still see each other but she was very unsettled , got a bit better with time so after 1week i put him next to her not in same paddock I will try this working them together Then in there own paddocks for rest I’m hopeful she will learn to not carry on it’s a worry

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

Hi Brownwyn and Welcome! Separating the horses doesn't work and will cause more anxiety and ulcers. The secret to changing this unwanted and unhealthy behavior is changing the mindset of your horse - they way she feels about you, her perception and experience with you and the horse she calls out for. The only way to change this is to build rapport with your mare and then work together, the two horses and you. And, it's not just about any "work" together. It's about my method. My method is proven to give 100% results if done correctly and with the ingredients of Love, intentional energy, exercises that produce rhythm which is meditative by nature, thus produces the hormone endorphin. I offer the only holistic horse training courses online, courses that will teach you all about this. Please click here for details www.taoacademy-horse-training-courses.com/mastery-membership-landing-page.

[@lauraalbertson7821]

Excellent In every way ! Very fun to see the Owner do the work too . Bear has a 13 year old Friesian Mare next door to him . They get along wonderfully on their own sides of the fence . Groom each other and stand next to each other throughout the day. He’s 9 mos. And just gelded . We were wondering if we could let them be in a pasture alone together? Willow’s Owner doesn’t come see Her or let her out much . If she approves of putting them together for a little time to play , I’m wondering after watching your video, if that is a good idea? Bear is not only a Baby, but a Gypsy Vanner Cross Paint . What do you think 💭

[@blackroan2276]

I have a studdish gelding in a boarding situation and he constantly calls out whenever his "buddies" aren't within eyeshot, like if I take him into the barn or arena. His calls are directed towards any horse, not any particular one. He is turned out with a group of about 9 other geldings. Plus there are about 10 other horses (all mares) in an adjoining pasture. What do you do in that situation? He is incredibly distracted.

[@jenniferkay7941]

Thank you for this information. I have a question, I hear you make a loud exhale. Is that so the horse hears you and knows you are relaxed?

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

Hi Jennifer and Welcome! Yes, I use energy in my work, my method. If you hear me exhale loudly it's because the horse needed me to be loud so he/she could connect to me and my work.

[@janjames2120]

In the UK we call Adele ding with stallion tendencies a Rig.

[@lexiemontgomery5955]

Proud cut

[@magdalenagauderon3754]

WOW! Caroline in your mind do you just ignore the fact that she is in season when you are working? Not that I would even dream of attempting this 😊

[@mare2947]

I was wondering the same thing. In fact have concluded that perhaps its necessary to be more assertive to dissuade hormonal behaviour?

[@mare2947]

I think I mean 'excess' hormonal behaviour.... as hormones when there is harmony can be just so wonderful for everyone....!

[@kathydinisi]

Question: I had 3 horse and one died. My appolusa crystal everytime I take my arabian out of eye sight which makes my arabian go nuts. My arabian went so nuts he tried to kick me off on the trail. Any ideas?

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

Hi Kathy and Welcome! That is an excellent question and I promise you Caroline can help you. Should you want to learn more about Caroline’s training, she has a large DVD selection www.taoofhorsemanship.com/shop and online training courses with lifetime access so please be sure to check them out. They offer more detail and instruction than the DVD collection. If you have any additional questions, please email us at [e-mail]. . XO, Sabrina

[@naunettemartin7450]

How do you get a horse from trios there heard Nannette and I want know that is want my horse dose and I want to stop win I go to work her

[@sarahthomson8183]

Working against nature isn't easy. Wow. Would love to know if this worked well enough to allow them both in the herd?

[@hoofhearted3035]

This video is not about buddy sour or separation anxiety. Confusing title.

[@miakoopmans1083]

ya these horses are not buddy sour lol

[@mare2947]

I was wondering what buddy sour actually means. An inability for herd members to get on?

[@tmbeach22]

My buddy sour horse dose fine out by thereself but my gelding runs the fince when my msre and me go out

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

Hi Traci Bell & Welcome! Join us Wednesdays @ 1200pm EST for our weekly live webinar on our Tao of Horsemanship FB page.facebook.com/TaoofHorsemanship. Caroline answers many questions from people all over the world and I am sure she would love to answer this one for you too. facebook.com/TaoofHorsemanship/ Hope you can join us!! Sabrina

[@chelackie]

proud cut or rig, when not fully castrated

[@carolinerider5924]

Hi Rachel and Welcome! Callan is neither. I explain in the video how he was fully examined and had blood work done. Its way deeper than that. He just likes Leeta!

[@chelackie]

I know. You couldn't remember what the condition was called.

[@darktoadn1113]

my issue is off topic keep in mined 4 years from any ground work just ridding but now it is at the point where if i walk away she acts like the sky is falling she has gone there 4 stalls unties her self goes under stall guards she comes out will open the door to the barn and will find me the worst she has done was tried to go threw a trailer window and yes my lease is very vocal mybehavior

[@darktoadn1113]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/onSvhmyXhZqbgdU

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

Hi darktoad N and Welcome. That is a great question and I promise you Caroline can and will help you. Please email her directly at [e-mail]. Thank you Sabrina

[@darktoadn1113]

@@TaoofHorsemanship email sent

[@darktoadn1113]

@@TaoofHorsemanship other issues i got hurt new years day Rosie was in the arena when it happened i was getting on a green horse for the first time then he flinched i loosened the lead rope a little bit then he reared as my left foot was in the stirrup and i got kicked in my hip befor i hit the ground i thought Rosie was actually going to kill him she kicked the crap out of him he and my self are still lame p.s. rosie behavior did not change un till she got hurt after that is when rosie changed she would not let anyone clean her wound but me give oral meds i here people mumble all the time matthew that is me he is her security blanket i have atusium but on the higher side

[@darktoadn1113]

@@TaoofHorsemanship i emailed and asked the same question no response today i could not stay with my lease while she ate she pawed and pawled and scream called like i dont get it when i opend the tractor door she rearwd and her front feet where in side the tractor cab she was acting scared i am broken right now i got kicked new years and it has seemed my lease has suffered more than i did when she has done nothing wrong it was a different horse that kicked me

[@KingsMom831]

Cryptorchid? Proud cut?

[@lulee7375]

Riggy?? ☺

[@shellyjones1564]

This seems no different from Clinton Anderson. Seems like everyone is doing his method. Although your using a lunge whip, no real difference.

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

Hi Shelly and Welcome! We are completely different in our approach to handling and training horses. If you have time I'd love to hear where we are similar. Thanks!

[@sarahnystrom8517]

Shelly Jones are you freaking kidding me! One of the main reasons I love Caroline’s method is because she’s really different from everyone and in a way that’s Beste for a horse. When I started learning from Clinton I thrived on a different training method but it seemed like everyone was like that even if no one admitted to it. So I decided to keep doing natural horsemanship and stuff like that. But I was getting absolutely no where with shiloh. My horse. So I went on KZbin to look for a different way and I found Caroline. But it’s still hard today to prove Caroline’s method is the Beste because so many gullible people like natural horsemanship trainers cause they know how to market themselves. Thank you.

[@joebertucci813]

I was bored after Clinton's 2nd video. I have been through hundreds of Caroline's now. There must be some difference between them. 😆

[@NadyaPena-01]

I think there are universal concepts that transcend horsemanship methods. For example the pressure and release, yielding or driving the hind quarters, moving the feet, making the right thing "easy" and the wrong thing "hard" are all common threads I've seen.

[@HellavaLive]

I noticed Callen looks a little lame at the trot...

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

Hi Hellava Live and welcome! I can promise you Callan was not lame. What you might be seeing is his rocky mountain gait, but thank you for caring. XX Sabrina

[@carmenslee6234]

He’s not a rig!

[@KumiKotara]

your scattered clucks and kisses are not necessary and muddies the communication

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

Hi Kumi. Why don't you spend time on your own channel, teaching people what you believe is the best and right way instead of wasting everyone's time criticizing me. I explain why and how the clucking works and if you knew anything about rehabilitation and re-patterning the brain, you would understand the effectiveness clucking has to interrupting behavior, redirecting and matching adrenaline and endorphin releases, all important to helping a horse engage, connect, relax and reset their nervous system.

[@joebertucci813]

In English, she is saying with clicking and clucking to pay attention. Listen to me! Think about what I am asking of you. At least that is what I see after watching dozens of these videos from her. It is a cue to pay attention and think.

[@NadyaPena-01]

I have to agree with you. There's a lot of good things in the video but there's also lots of these clucks, clicks, "come here", calling by name, that clearly don't have meaning to the horse (at least not right away). I think they're mostly going by her body language. That's fine but then why do the other vocal cues?

[@asportableskatesharpening4207]

The heat aspect is completely separate from the buddy sour issue. I have had two mares and two geldings more tightly bound than a gelding/mare pair. The heat cycle just confuses the issue. Your topic is separation anxiety but you are working them together in the round pen so there is no separation to work on. This is puzzling.

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

Hi Portable! I realize my method is going to be confusing to some as it's not the usual purported training method. This topic is more complex than you think. I will be creating a series of "buddy sour" videos with different topics, ranging from "mare and geldings" to true 'separation anxiety" and what that looks like and why etc...It's about time we take the time to truly understand the complexities of horse's emotions, natures, learned behaviors, the extent of PTSD and so forth and stop making uneducated, generic assumptions, comments, statements as if they are fact. Please take your time to listen to the many points I make in my videos before you comment, including this one. There is a ton of information. This is also NOT about separation anxiety. Leeta has no problem being alone, separated from the herd. I also realize that much of my method is counter-intuitive to popular belief and propaganda. The major point I am making is between love and leadership, developing awesome rapport and clear, direct leadership with our horses in these situations. Leeta's hormones (the mare) are naturally working natural against her (and us:) and there's not much we can do about that unless we look into hormone replacement - and even then it doesn't always work. She also doesn't act this way towards any other geldings, so there's more to it than "meets the eye." In the end, we still have to get her to pay attention, focus and learn what is acceptable behavior. I've worked with enough mares like Leeta to know what I am talking about and I know how to make a total difference in their behavior. As I mention in this video, Leeta has spent most of her life, 23 hrs a day locked in a stall and was never with a herd, or socialized, until she came to me 4 years ago (she is 13 now). Her nature, individual personality and temperament, is also a factor to consider as well as you can't change nature. She is dominant, stubborn and smart and sassy. Dominant personalities are always the toughest. These horses take the longest to learn how to work together and even when they do, they need constant reminders as it's in their nature to be independent thinkers and dominant. Many people need help with horses like her

[@asportableskatesharpening4207]

@@TaoofHorsemanship Thank you for clarifying though the title suggested the point was "buddy sour horses" implying separation anxiety. It appeared to be more about establishing human leadership in the presence of other horses.

[@asportableskatesharpening4207]

And just one more point, you claim that other's methods are not kosher when it comes to moving horse's feet, etc. but that is exactly what you did in this video to establish your herd dominance to Leeta.

[@TaoofHorsemanship]

@@asportableskatesharpening4207 You got it all wrong! I'm not trying to establish herd dominance!!!! I tell you why I move her feet, 1) to interrupt her behavior and 2) to get her focused on the work!

[@asportableskatesharpening4207]

@@TaoofHorsemanship How is that different than redirecting a horse's attention by moving their feet? If a buddy sour horse stops paying attention to you and you get off or stay on and do serpentines, roll backs, backups, small circles, etc. it is a matter of moving their feet to redirect their attention back on you. It's all the same thing. From a customer relations point of view, telling potential clients or customers that they "got it all wrong" does little to get them to buy into your program....

[@chelackie]

Clicking and clucking is having no effect, worn out that cue.

[@KumiKotara]

yep . desensitizing at its worse

[@danielabaumann1165]

You start good. But then, what happen to you ? Youre to emotional. One time with the whip is enough. Till she get one step back. You react agressive. Slow down, it works anyway.

[@imagineifyouwereaworm]

Dude, just admit you don’t understand horses and can’t read their body language.