Budget Tent Tests In UK Storm | 3F UL Floating Cloud | Storm Barbara High Winds

Outdoors Inspiration, Shamus McCaffery, sets up a 3F UL Floating Cloud tent in extreme weather conditions with his trusty, canine companion Petra the German Shepherd. Battling with winds in excess of 40 mph, he looks at the capability of this 4 season budget tent With Nearly four decades of wild camping experience, Shamus shares his skills and knowledge on Dartmoor National Park, where he continues to live and work.
Original look at 3F UL Floating Cloud - calm day.
• Wild Camping - What to...

[@bigsal1960]

Tent didn't pass the 4 season test but Petra did!! Great channel greater dog.

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Woof Woof 🐶👍🐶 Thank you 😊👍

[@MrRobins68]

As a 62 year learning something new for the first time wild camping. Your easy to follow instructions are brilliant. It's given me a new lease of life. The map teaching was brilliant. Keep up the great work. Thank you

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Thanks Craig, I appreciate that 👍🐶😊

[@GearTutorials]

You're spoling us with the regularity of your uploads Shamus! ❤

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Long may it remain the case 👍😊🐶 Thank you

[@keithshwalbe6981]

Bless dear Petra, what a lovely pal you've got there Shamus.

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Evening, Keith 😊 She is beautiful and very patient with me 👍

[@keithshwalbe6981]

@@outdoorsinspiration9284 . . Hello Shamus. . It's always so nice to see the love and trust you have in each other. I wish you both many more happy and safe adventures together. Take care.

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

@@keithshwalbe6981 Thank you, Keith 🐶😊 - Stay safe.

[@keithshwalbe6981]

@@outdoorsinspiration9284 You say safe too my friend, and thank you for taking the trouble to make so many entertaining and informative videos. All the best to you.

[@NancyandMako]

Very honest wonderful review!!! I love your channel!! Always learn something valuable!!! Thanks again!

[@sidestickflyer]

Thanks Shamus for the down to earth no nonsense demonstration on the 3F. You couldn't have picked a better day for it! I was out at the same time in Storm Barbara walking the Belstone Ridge to the Ted Hughes Memorial with a very good friend and experienced Dartmoor wildcamper (Yarg Strebor). The wind was horrendous and having taken 6 hours to get out there and back to Steeperton Tor carrying full winter packs we made the sensible decision to descend down to the edge of the Steeperton Brook above Taw Marsh to get some shelter. Even though we had 4 season tents (Snugpak and Wild Country) we knew we would be in for a good hiding once the rain appeared (it came in for the night at about 1620hrs) if we stayed up on the ridge. I know these lightweight Chinese tents are becoming very popular and call me 'old fashioned' if you like but i would rather carry an extra 1kg of weight and have a more heavyweight tent under all circumstances. As you know from your own experience Dartmoor weather can be beautiful one moment and the other extreme the next. Anyway, keep up the great work. Your honest videos obviously based on many years of experience are a real breath of fresh air! ATVB Graham - Sidestickflyer

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hi Graham... I'm sure you can guess my views. I'm not into ultralight - I'm into Ultracomfortable, as light as possible 😂

[@fragaria65]

Petra's ears flapping are my favourite part! 🥰😁😍

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Haha 😂 yes I like that too 🐶

[@stuartwalmsley1379]

Nice review as usual, not bad for a budget tent, thanks for sharing 😁

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Evening, Stuart. Thank you 😊 I do have a soft spot for this little tent, I really like it, but I think it's waiting for better weather 👍🐶

[@gibboevie7451]

Great video Shamus loved it and Petra gorg

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hi Ian 👍 Thank you 😊

[@benvickery]

I’m a new subscriber and enjoying your videos. I’m a DofE leader and love hiking and wild camping myself. I’ve got a lot of videos to watch but I hope you’re able to make some new ones. Your videos are educational rather than just for entertainment 👍

[@johnemery1096]

Excellent Shamus lots of useful info including the importance of conditioning your best friends👍

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Absolutely - they need to know what's coming next if you want an 'emotionally stable' wild camp with a dog 😊👍🐶

[@elendil7]

Excellent video! Thank you Shamus and Petra? 🐾🐾❤️ Now get that crackling fire going at home.

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hello Elizabeth 👋 Thank you 😊 A fire sounds great 👍

[@andrewseaborne270]

Don't think Petra was too impressed ,another good upload Shamus👍👌.

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

She was once she could get inside, Andy 😊😂🐶 Thank you.

[@jontron380]

It's good to see a real world test of equipment, it's likely some claims are misleading at best. A 30mph wind on Dartmoor ! A lovely calm day then 😃 Seriously , it's nice to know if you're choosen kit will perform when required to, and the videos you are producing definitely help with that decision. I like the fact you are not opinionated and leave that to the viewer, nice one.

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Thank you, Jonathan 😊 That's all I can do really; usage of gear can be so subjective depending on the situation and capability of the user. Thanks for your comment 👍

[@chrisedwards3198]

Im new to your channel, found you today. Your videos are really well made. Love the kit chats and tests in serious winds rain. I imagine u would be great to learn from.

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hi Chris 👋 Thank you very much 😊 I guess I just do my thing, but I do enjoy sharing information 👍

[@deanoboland]

Great work on video 👍👍👍

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hi Dean, thank you 😊🐶👍

[@fragaria65]

Subscribed! It's Jack and Timos mom from Twitter here! Lovely scenery too!

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Thank you Jack and Timos - that's very kind of you to find us here as well 👍😊🐶

[@cairnscrow8713]

good review, thanks. Please re-check instructions on the floating cross over pole. They generally fix above the main support pole

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hi and thanks for viewing 😊 Yes it's those fixings that I don't like very much - a bit Heath Robinson - Ah but see what you mean about the pole on top 👍 in fairness they are right enough at that price point. It's not designed for that sort of weather to be fair. All in all I quite like it 👍

[@TOMHEANEY100]

My favourite subject - tents in the wind... Great video and it is so good to see the wind speed being measured in the field. Manufactures can claim pretty much what they want in regards to the season performance of their tents and its good to take them down a peg or two if you will excuse the pun.. Your comments Shamus were perfect. To be fair the main ridge pole looked reasonably solid but then it wasn't really that windy. I reckon at 45mph it would have been flattened (pancaked).

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Evening Tom, thank you 😊 in fairness the tent would do a fantastic job in lighter winds, but you're absolutely right, it wasn't far from damage for sure. The fly sheet was compressed onto the inner completely on the windward side. Interesting to see it though, what else would I do on a windy day 😊😂

[@runhikesleeprepeat187]

A great informative video. Cheers

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Ta Chris 😊 Sithee 👍

[@runhikesleeprepeat187]

@@outdoorsinspiration9284 who's Chris?

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

@@runhikesleeprepeat187 My apologies - wrong reply 😂

[@jamieforsyth4804]

Yes,great vids and really like the content.Thank you,.I camp a lot and i do own a dog as well.Even though she's a husky,18 months old,i always carry a thin foam mat for her to sleep on and a microfibre towel to dry her as much as possible.

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hi Jamie 😊 I don't know if you've seen a video where I mention it, but I was with the last Husky sledge dogs of Antarctica - I put some photos on that video 🐶 If you're interested, it's on this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYCWhmSDgdVpers Fantastic breed 👍

[@jamieforsyth4804]

@@outdoorsinspiration9284 Nice one.I will defo check that out.They used to feed them on Weddel seals but they had to stop for obvious reasons !

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

​@@jamieforsyth4804 - When you say 'they' - I was 'they' 😊 Yes, we used to feed them seals, but that wasn't the reason they were removed👍 I do explain why in the video 🐶

[@mountain_del1863]

I have a tent buying affliction and have F10s, lightwaves (great tents), TN, MSR and Nanok also. I recently happened on a “Jack Wolfskin” gossamer bivy tent that is marketed as a three season tent. Used it up the Cairngorm in 50 mph gusting 60. It didn’t budge. 90 quid they cost. You’d struggle to get the lovely pooch in though. Good video as ever Sir. Regards 👍👍

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Sounds great 👍 dogs do tent to put a limitation on how small and light things go and still retain some comfort 😊

[@clivenewton7609]

Thanks again Shamus for bring us another great video, especially in those crappy conditions! From my experience over the years here in the U.K. any tent that pitches inner first is, at best, a 2 or possible 3 season affair. If it had been raining when you pitch the whole shooting match would have been soaked! Mind you I come from a time of the first “backpacking” tents, Robert Saunders, Blacks Tinker, karrimore Marathon and the like😂😂 and I suppose if you want that sort of quality at today’s prices it won’t be in the budget range! Kind regards Clive from deepest Dorset.👍

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hi Clive, well I still have my Saunders Satellite Plus 👍 - Terra Nova's Quasar and many other geodesic / semi-geodesic tents pitch inner first, so you have to be quick in the rain or be prepared to mop up after pitching. All the best and thank you 😊👍🐶

[@clivenewton7609]

As my back gets stiffer and my bones get more creaky the word “quick” looses its meaning! So inner first I’m sorry to say would be a deal breaker! Back in the 70’s Dartmoor and the Plume of Feathers was my stomping ground while I was stationed at Drake and various ships. Our go -to tent at the time was the Vango Force 10 CN😂 , my own, which saw plenty of service, was the Ultimate Equipment Hobo, definitely a 3-4 season job, sadly long gone although I did see one on eBay a year or so ago! When I get out now it’s very much a tarp and hammock affair. Once again thanks for your time uploading much appreciated 👍

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

@@clivenewton7609 - You're very welcome 😊

[@juliejoysantos9929]

This talent climbing mountains require couagre and determination. My god I need this kind of courage that you have Pls teach me how. I will surely look forward to watch your old and new vids. Thank you my new friend

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Thank you 😊

[@leeprice674]

New to your channel Shamus and really enjoy the content. Just about to get into wild camping now and getting reviews on the vast range of equipment. But yesterday, boxing day I purchased this same tent and would love some more thought from you about it please. I can confirm I won't be in the type of conditions you showed haha. It's my first tent with a 4 season inner to keep the drafts at bay. I am just trying to get out for a few overnight trips to help with my mental health and wellbeing. Great content and delivery from you thanks on advance and look forward to next year's content from you. Happy New year to you and lovely Petra 😊👍

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Thanks Lee - I hope you get real enjoyment from the wild camping, give the tent a spin and let us know how you get on 👍😊🐶

[@leeprice674]

@@outdoorsinspiration9284 my apologies as I ha e also found the budget tent review you did. That gives more info thank you. I Will let you know how it goes 👍

[@prepre73]

Thanks for the video, been thinking about one of their other tents the 15D tunnel tent mainly for the massive vesterbule space compared to my banshee, the 15D as far as I can tell is basically a direct copy of a much more expensive swedish made tent Honestly the quality of their stuff looks really good for the price but like most tents made by similar manufacturers there never good enough for the claimed 4 season use

[@alanwetherelt7155]

Found your channel today great info and quality, sound quality in the wind was fantastic, not a fan of inner skin of tent going up alone first

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Thank you, Alan 😊 I prefer tents that pitch 'all as one' 🐶👍😊

[@leswintz2884]

Shared 👍

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Thank you Les - 😊 Good luck 👍

[@queenabove18]

I'm shopping for a tent for New Zealand - also a windy place! The 3F UL FC2 does well to compare to many brands when looking at materials spec and price, perhaps even MSR tents. However, I still find myself wanting a Hilleberg - clicking to your channel and seeing that you own one didn't help. Why do I always want the most expensive things? Thanks for the review - without it I may have made a regrettable purchase

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

The 3F UL products are good value for money. The finish and quality of textiles MSR will be better, but then I’ve had issues with MSR in the past. I would add that Hilleberg’s quality is second to none… but then neither is the price tag. Thanks for watching and good luck with whatever you choose 😊

[@Olan...]

New subscriber and this is my first video, thanks for the efforts....Most you tubers are only one nighters and i have yet to see a video of someone out in the non stop rain doing a few nights and dealing with soggy wet tents...I was in the Army for years and only ever had bivi bags and poncho and i was much younger much fitter and had to man up and also always so exhausted that discomfort was always over ruled by pure fatigue so i could have slep on a knife edge.....i like my luxury these days and have gone soft i dont even bother going out if rain is foracasted for more than one night but i am missing out since i turned into an old wimp and would love to see if anyone has got any diferent ideas to deal with soaking wet fly sheets and keeping the inners dry.

[@mmmbass6068]

Glad I found this one - thanks so much for making it? Though I was considering it, I now won’t be buying this tent. Cheers!

[@ChrisBeard]

I miss the ol' Vango Force 10s. A frame for the win.

[@markbond7342]

Hi Shamus, great videos and glad you're keeping well. How about one on map reading and navigation skills? Best regards Mark

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hi Mark - Absolutely fantastic to hear from you 😊🐶 You know that's what I love best of all, don't you 😂 I'm saving a few navigation videos for the dark, misty winter months, when it's needed most, but they will be coming. Wishing you all the best, take care and stay safe 👍

[@derekfawcett601]

im a new subscriber great video..petra is a beautiful girl..keep the video's coming and thankyou

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

That’s really very kind, Derek. Thank you 😊

[@MrSTAdventures]

Hi Shamus, yet another cracking video. As soon as you panned the camera and I saw Burrator I knew where you were, brought back a lot of happy memories, cheers. Now then as a man who has tested and used many tents made by many different manufacturers I would like to pick your brains please. I am look at buying a 3 man tent for motorcycle camping. At present I haves made a shortlist of three, an MSR ELIXIR 3, a Robens Lodge 3 and finally a Vango Torridon 3, in your experience what would you suggest would be a good purchase or can you recommend anything else please. Cheers 👍🏻

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Wow - three good looking tents really, Shane. I've had the MSR Mutha Hubba which was light and spacious, I don't know anything about the Elixir 3 though. Vango are always solid and dependable - and the Robens lodge looks like a sturdy / classic dome design. I can't really advise - but I did a little bit of MC touring a few years back. My preference would probably be centred on my bike luggage and go with what fits best. Sorry, that's probably not helpful, but it's what would go through my mind 😊

[@MrSTAdventures]

@@outdoorsinspiration9284 Thanks Shamus, pack size is more important than weight for me. I’m leaning towards the Vango as it’s one than can be put up with the outer in inner at the same time and from what I can see 5 to 10 minutes for pitch time, ideal for after a long day in the saddle. Thanks again 😊👍🏻

[@MrEvilWasp]

Breezy enough to blow the cobwebs away lol. For a Chinese tent I was surprised it didn't fall to pieces with the first gust of wind. So i reckon if you know it won't be blowing a gale or are too exposed it's actually a pretty nice tent. Peace

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

I think it is - 👍 I do like it 🐶😊

[@southcoastoutdoorsuk6301]

Nice review fella was that the 4 season inner you had ?

[@andrewmoon1898]

My dog on a windy camp... Get your bed ready so I can hide in it. Calm and warm. 🤣

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Seems sensible to me 😂🐶

[@PerfDayToday]

Nice review. I see there is a 3 season and 4 season version. I’m guessing it’s the amount of bug netting on the inner? Which was your tent? Thxs.

[@Gladiusrides]

The cross bar goes on top not under the ridge

[@jeffharvey6288]

Quite like the look of the 3f for myself and partner and our dog which is a lurcher. The vestibule is plenty big enough. Are there any sites you would recommend for 2nd hand and used equip. There are dozens out there but quite a few if not all tend to sell redundant clothing rather than equipment itself. Thanks for the info matey and keep up the good work..👍

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hello Jeff, You would certainly need to look a the 2 person version for the two of you. There are various FB pages for second hand gear, but I don't use them, I'm afraid 😊

[@slippery999]

It would be interesting to see a long term test of the cheaper tents, I’m sure they are ok for a few trips but what about longevity? There is an old saying: buy cheap, buy twice. I have a tent I’ve had for almost 17 years (TN Quasar) admittedly I don’t use it much now but the design, manufacturing and materials are brilliant and it’s lasted well. It was a big investment initially but if you divide cost price over 17 years it’s actually very cheap. Although it’s a 2 man tent I’ve had 3 in it when a friend’s tent flooded in a storm and he abandoned it, it’s bomb proof but a little on the heavy side by today’s standards. Great test using an anemometer for ACTUAL wind speeds. So may people just make it up, the amount of times Ive heard people say they were out in 70+mph winds and their tent was fine! I highly doubt winds were anything like as much as they think. I’m sure it was very windy but probably half that, maybe strong gusts but the huge wind speeds claimed are just guesses for the most part. A quick tip for putting up tents in windy conditions: attach a guy line to your pack (I use a small carabiner - no knots and you can do it with gloves on) before pulling out the whole tent otherwise the danger is it will blow away before you secure it.

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

I had a TN Quasar as well, in fact I had two (one was the lightweight version) - I couldn't justify the large pack size in either. It's a consequence of the strength of fully geodesic, I suppose 👍😊🐶

[@slippery999]

I know, same for me. Even if you split it: inner & pegs, fly & poles it’s still bulky. Just use it for odd car camping trips now.

[@jodyjohnstone3520]

Looks like a budget version of my MSR Hubba Hubba NX. I've had that in 40mph+ winds and bent a pole 🙈

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hi Jody, yes its is remarkably similar, but not to the same component standards. Any more on this one and I think we could have ben up for a bent / broken pole too 👍😊

[@profd65]

It must be an old Hubba Hubba NX. The new ones have Easton Syclone poles, and you're not bending them; or rather you certainly could, but they wouldn't stay bent.

[@jodyjohnstone3520]

@@profd65 DAC featherlite poles.

[@nuynui4083]

How about new 3F UL gear Taiji mdel when fighting with wind camping, very best review.

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Thank you 😊👍🐶

[@asclevas]

Hi Shamus, thanks for the great video. I'm a bit late to the party, but wondered how you've got on with this tent since? I have a 2kg tent that is fine in strong winds, but want a really light shelter for 3 season use on Dartmoor with my dog (medium sized vizsla/lab cross). Sounds like she can go in the vestibule, looking at Petra. Would you go for the 3 or 4 season inner? I don't want hassle with condensation, and want to be as light as I can get away with (other than bivvying), but can see the 4 season inner may protect a bit more from potential spray/moisture in some ways, perhaps?

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hi John, I don’t have the tent anymore. However for your size of dog I would say it would be a bit cramped to be honest.

[@peterhewlett1531]

Hi Shamus, Just love your videos. I am a dog lover too and Petra is my sort of dog although I used to breed Newfoundlands. QUESTION - what sort of camera do you use for your videos. The pictures are so clear and the sound very clear. Thank you for your time and presentations. Regards, Peter from Remote East Coast of Tasmania

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hello Peter 👋🏻 in Tasmania 😊 Tha k you for watching. For ‘on the go video’ GoPro is my preferred option - I sometimes use a GoPro Max for 360 and ‘PetraCam’ - I couple it with a Rode external microphone 👍

[@peterhewlett1531]

thank you Shamus.. Love your work

[@grimlightwildoutdoors]

Cracking tent review good sir, super ⛺️🏕🏕⛺️👏🏻👍😀

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Thank you 😊

[@emmaxx2529]

No backpack for Petra today 🙊 🎒🐶💖

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hi Emma - we didn’t stop overnight, so she didn’t have to pack her pyjamas 😊🐶

[@emmaxx2529]

Outdoors Inspiration 🥰🥰 so cute!! Marley has pjs too 🙂

[@gavingrimsey8602]

What camera where you filming with today? Catch up soon Gavin

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Evening, Gavin - GoPro Hero 8 today 👍

[@mijdragonhill9803]

Hi Sheamus, what do you think of the OEX PHOX 11 V2 ? ....Jim

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hi Jim - sorry, I have no experience of the Phox 11 - it would be unfair to comment, other than to say that it appears quite cramped by comparison to many other tents in terms of height - but I do like the shape and access. 😊👍🐶

[@grahamscothern4319]

Wow that was a test for the tent Looking for a 1 man light tent can see it’s got good head height what about the width inside ? Thanks Graham

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hi Graham - this tent is wide enough and long enough to sleep in and that’s about it. Both vestibules provide the storage space 😊👍

[@grahamscothern4319]

@@outdoorsinspiration9284 thank you 👍

[@mottobc]

I use Trango 2 when i know there will be heavy snow fall. But Its a heavy option for solo winter expedition. I try not to pay premium price for a solo winter tent. So I was just checking reviews of floating cloud if it can tolerate wind and snow accumulation. Seems like not too bad in low wind but i am not sure for snow. Anybody used naturehike or 3F tent on heavy snow and can recommend ?

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

I think the catenary cut on the fly would be a bit of a problem 👍😊🐶

[@aarongoodwin7659]

Hiya where is this please?

[@WildCamper]

Do you use a separate microphone with the GoPro?

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Yes 👍 Rode Wireless Go - provided I’m on the ball, ensures that the audio is sourced at the right place rather than where the camera is pointing 😊

[@WildCamper]

@@outdoorsinspiration9284 thought so! I had one of those but couldn't get on with it at the time , maybe I will try one again . Cheers and woofs to Petra from Chloe 🐾

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

It’s not the most weatherproof of things but the batteries do last well. Good luck with it 👍

[@jackdyer4494]

What’s your thoughts on the lanshan 1 trekking pole tent do you think it would hold up well in winter conditions

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

Hi Jack, I have never used one 😊 However, it doesn't look like a 4 season design to me. I'm sure it could be pitched low, but with a mesh inner and a single walking pole support, it wouldn't be my personal choice for wind, rain and snow 👍

[@jackdyer4494]

@@outdoorsinspiration9284 thanks for the advice I’m in the market for a 4 season light weight tent do you have any ideas which are best

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

@@jackdyer4494 - That's such a difficult question - There are many folks who would say buy 'this' or 'that' but it wouldn't be right, for me to inflict my opinions on you because there are so many factors that come into play but here's a few considerations: 1. Weather / wind / snow / rain? 2. How heavy is lightweight? 3. Freestanding? 4. Pitch all together / inner outer first? 5. Number 4 affects where you can pitch it. 6. Pack size. 7. Duration of camp. 8. Above all... Budget / Cost I'm a Hilleberg fan, but I also realise that the cost of their tents is not favourable for most people. For me, the Hilleberg Akto meets most of my requirements when I answer those 8 questions - however, I also have a Soulo which I'm very happy with albeit nearly 1kg heavier. Many people prefer freestanding tents for winter conditions, they generally creat more living space - but there are also people who are happy with a tarp and bivvy in winter. I am trying to answer your question by asking you to question what your personal needs are rather than just give you the name of a favourite tent - we are all very different 😊 I hope that helps 👍

[@jackdyer4494]

@@outdoorsinspiration9284 thankyou for the tips it’s just so hard to find the perfect tent 😂😂👍

[@WyeExplorer]

May I ask you Shamus where the 3FL comes from. And what the shipping arrangements were. Thanks. Mark

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

I bought this one used, Mark - but originally from Ali Express 👍

[@WyeExplorer]

@@outdoorsinspiration9284 Aaah, that's really good to hear Shamus because I rarely buy new and never for the sake of a video. The environment and the perils of our planet require us to think in a more restrained fashion for sure. Mind you encouraging the purchase of Chinese budget gear that travels thousands of miles can have an adverse effect. I understand that many manufacturers produce abroad and that it's a minefield shopping ethically in terms of materials to but I reckon it can be done. Any way, all the best....

[@outdoorsinspiration9284]

@@WyeExplorer I believe you are quite right, however that marketplace has now got a firm grip in the 'online shopping centre'. But, yes, this was used and for sale by a fellow forum user. I recently bought a head torch from a great manufacturer in the USA - I was horrified, post purchase, when I had to wait six weeks for the item to arrive from China - They only sold to the domestic market in the US - overseas purchases came from their Chinese outlet ...

[@WyeExplorer]

@@outdoorsinspiration9284 Yeah this is it Shamus. It's all tied up in knots now. How do we untie it and get that traceable item. Wow, we wanna do the right thing but the market place isn't making it easy. Peace!

[@profd65]

Basically a shameless ripoff of the MSR Hubba NX but with inferior components. Even the logo is a ripoff. Typical Chinese lack of ingenuity.