Buffy the Vampire Slayer 4x19 & 4x20 REACTION | "New Moon Rising" & "The Yoko Factor"

[@migmit]

Spike: (gleefully does something evil) Viewers: I don't know, seems like he has some regrets.

[@thehorrorbandwagon]

😂😂

[@Littlegreen42]

Buffy's reaction to Willow's coming out is one of the most natural I've seen on television. People forget this was the year 2000, being gay yes it was more open but still was not an open accepted thing on network television. This show in retrospect still blows my mind with how far ahead it was. Also Alyson once again tearing my heart out.

[@davidgorman994]

"I totally forgot about Oz" - yeah, Tara will do that to a person.

[@PunkToledoGirl97]

I love Tara so much, but I never forget about Oz ever. Lol…

[@daviribeiro8997]

And Willow as well 🤠

[@ninipookie]

Ok straight man

[@davidgorman994]

@@ninipookie It's a light hearted comment about Tara fitting in so well. No need to read anything more into it (or me for some reason).

[@ChrisCollins068]

@@ninipookie?

[@arc7375]

28:00 I think Angel stating he doesn’t like Riley was his own way of approving of him as a good man for Buffy. Which is why she thanked him after.

[@BrianPReddy]

My favorite parasocial relationship is watching Buffy with you guys every week

[@thehorrorbandwagon]

💜💜💜

[@MrGala0apples]

The yoko factor is so brutal, spike is So Good at sussing out insecurities and analyzing relationships, no spoilers but there are a lot of times when he’s the one to accurately notice issues. I love him.

[@MB.543]

Spike's name is William. It's been a long time since School Hard, so I certainly don't blame you for not remembering.

[@talesyuki]

"Bloody hell!" on that episode is one of my favorite line deliveries on the show. xD

[@arc7375]

Drunk Giles is _hilarious._

[@talesyuki]

Petty Angel is great haha His smug face when he follows Buffy out of the room is great xD

[@arc7375]

Petty Angel is _best_ Angel.

[@Greencava11]

​@@arc7375💯

[@reneeg9406]

Buffy was in shock.. but fully accepting (after the shock wore off)

[@killianlpc]

Some interesting parts in the The Yoko Factor, highlights are Angel and Riley acting like jilted teenagers in Buffy's room, and the smug smile Angel gives Riley when she says she needs to talk to Angel alone. Also Giles being drunk and telling Buffy 'you'll get your arse kicked'. Buffy really hurts Willow and Xander when she says 'I guess that's why there is now ancient prophecy of the chosen one and her friends' after all they have done for her, and she has done for them. Some excellent work by Spike setting all the friends against each other like a modern day Iago from Othello, there was foreshadowing for this in The Earshot episode when Buffy was reading the students mind re Othello Play. Giles playing Freebird is of course the highlight.

[@passionfruityyt]

Angel does a really good job at making you start realizing that a lot of the demons are people of their own, and that makes watching what the initiative does feel so much more cruel

[@heather9857]

That's a good point. After watching Angel I felt Buffy was an incomplete story without it.

[@Epicdance001]

True, they really make you feel like demons aren't a monolith in Angel compared to Buffy.

[@arc7375]

Humans are animals that evolved under the laws of physics. Demons are animals that evolved under the laws of physics and the additional laws of magic. Like humans, demons can have their own souls. They can be good, neutral or evil. A lot of the nuance with demons and their alignment is something more commonly seen in Angel, rather than Buffy. But Buffy certainly does lightly explore it too.

[@joeslater2390]

I have a theory about why vampires act the way they do (obviously can't give examples) but I think we are on the same page

[@ThiagoDragon]

Willow come out scene and Buffy reaction felt genuine... in my opinion.

[@alooncnej4696]

Totally well done

[@Lady-Seashell-Bikini]

Especially for the early 2000s. It's honestly so great that queer people have been accepted to the point where Buffy's reaction seems so backwards now, but back then, that WOULD be a progressive reaction (initial freak out but then accepting).

[@Buffy8Fan]

4x19 I've seen a lot of people over the years talk about Buffy's reaction to Willow coming out to her being negative, but I don't believe it is. Considering the situation of Buffy having no inkling and the time period of society starting to be OK with it (but people still feeling the need to justify themselves not being so), it was a very natural reaction and once her shock was over she gathered herself and told Willow the truth: she had no problem with Willow liking Tara, but Oz came back cured, so it created a problem. And Willow tells Buffy leading up to coming out, she unintentionally led him on because of her own confused feelings between the two of them. 4x20 I look at this episode as the main theme of the season. Specifically, the challenges of keeping high school friends together when a person's world is expanding to college and life after high school. I even see The Initiative as just an extention of this theme when it and Riley drive Buffy from the group (in the same way not going to college and jobs do Xander, Tara does Willow, and being a man of leisure [and the kids no longer being in high school] does Giles).

[@user-dx2dm8oq8g]

I agree, I think Buffy's shock was mainly from realizing that she's not so close to Willow anymore despite being roommates now. She has been busy with her boyfriend and the initiative and neglected her friendships. If Buffy didn't invite her boyfriend and his friends on scooby night, maybe Willow would have came out to Buffy and Xander then, and same thing if she knew she could invite Tara. This season there was always something interrupting their time together. Things are changing and they are all trying to adjust, and their insecurities are showing now. It's great character development.

[@Buffy8Fan]

@@user-dx2dm8oq8g I watched a channel where a lesbian couple reacted to lesbian coming out moments in pop culture. Willow coming out to Buffy wasone of the moments. They had so much negative things to say about Buffy due to them not understanding the context of the season. I remember hoping I explained it well in the comment I left.

[@user-dx2dm8oq8g]

@@Buffy8Fan I can see how it can be misread. It's almost like Buffy is in her head during the interaction tryna spot where were the signs and how did she not figure it out, is she that bad of a friend? She doesn't wanna say something wrong. Then she comes back to the present and tries to be a good friend when she sees that Willow needs her support.

[@Lady-Seashell-Bikini]

Also, a lot of Gen Z won't know what the political environment was like in the early 2000s for gay acceptance. A word I remember hearing a lot was "tolerance", as in we should tolerate the existence of gay people. A lot of people were losing their family and friend circles when they came out, so Buffy's reaction perfectly matched how people actually reacted back then. I don't see Buffy's reaction as being negative, rather than as a marker for how much progress has been made, to the point where a lot of people never have to come out. A lot of gay people will just exist as gay people without announcing it.

[@Philbert-s2c]

"Is Spike even his real name?" He's also called William the Bloody so make of that what you will.

[@rfresa]

I always have to laugh at Riley calling himself an anarchist, knowing he's the furthest thing from one!

[@arc7375]

Captain America has been shown to be more of an anarchist than Riley will ever be. 🤣

[@RangerOkie88]

Willow’s coming out scene is one of the best “coming out” scenes in all tv

[@arc7375]

It was handled with grace and dignity, after having her relationship with Tara build organically for the entire season thus far. It was done very well. And don’t forget this was still at a time when being gay wasn’t accepted in society at all. It was deeply impactful given the time period it aired in. I mean, due to broadcasting standards at the time, the network still forbade any gay signs of affection from being depicted, while straight characters have no restrictions at all…and we just had an episode where Buffy and Riley were literally just _boning_ for the entire episode. And the orgasm wall. Don’t forget the orgasm wall. Yet Willow and Tara were not allowed to even kiss.

[@xKagryx]

“He can only think gay” lololol

[@spangelicious837]

Dead Forrest: You couldn't have done that sooner?

[@davidpuerto1619]

Watching this back as a more mature adult I can see the parallels of how some things have change yet stayed the same. The idea of being flippant to certain issues until it actually impacts them or someone they know. At least that's what I see when I watch episode 19.

[@leesmith9299]

27:59 i'm pretty sure angel saying he doesn't like riley was actually code for i do actually like him but as the ex i'm not supposed to. buffy understood the code and said thankyou as she appreciates the gesture of giving her the satisfaction of him being jealous as the ex and for approving of riley.

[@killianlpc]

The only mistake Oz made was not telling Buffy in Wild At Heart what had happened. He never had control over the wolf inside. He tried his best but it was all beyond his control that's why he had to leave because he loved Willow so much but knew it was her that would always bring the wolf out in him. Xander gave him the impression in this episode that she was still single. It's a tragic love triangle with three people, who we really like so much. It's great that Riley shows how much he cares for Buffy by helping to free Oz. Oz makes the ultimate sacrifice again knowing they can never be together as Willow is the trigger for his transformation. It was great to see Tara and Willow back together again. One the better episodes of S4.

[@user-dx2dm8oq8g]

To be fair Willow only came out recently and Xander is her best friend so I do believe that he's not gonna out her to people, even Oz. Oz probably told no one he was coming, he was likely planning to surprise everyone and show them he had his wolf side under control. And homosexuality back then was still taboo and having a member of the main cast be gay in a big show like this was groundbreaking. So it would be understandable that her friends wouldn't go around telling people she's gay, because society wasn't so accepting as it is today.

[@caitlin329]

We know Spike is 'William the Bloody' before he gained the nickname (apparently from torturing his victims with railroad spikes)

[@eamcims]

I cannot tell you how excited I am for season 5 😁

[@RawrxBexJealous]

The Oz recap feels! 😭 Tara in the Scooby meeting! The casual “hey” 🤯 Willow relationship drama. Not Riley with the Willow shade for dating a werewolf. Oz has control of his abilities! I missed Oz so much 😭 Oh no poor Tara. I’m so conflicted! I love all 3 of them. Willow telling Buffy about Tara 💚 Adam recruiting Spike! Man this episode had me so emotional. Not Oz chasing Tara! The initiative has Oz! That went zero to 100 so quick! “You were a Boy Scout?…parts of me” 😂 Spike really brings the comedy no matter the scene partner. Not them testing on Oz 😭 Spike to the rescue? Oop Riley’s access about to be revoked. Wow the new guy in charge SUCKS. Infiltrating the initiative. Anya “slap my hand now” 😂 The great escape. I don’t like everyone being separated tho. “Part of me feels like I’ll always be waiting for you” 🖤 The hug goodbye 😭 The candle scene 💚 Giles’ somber previously on recap 🖤 Spike acknowledging Buffy’s abilities to Adam. Spike & Adam team up! Xander/Riley convo about Angel. Giles singing again! 💚 His yelp when Spike scared him 😂 Not Spike messing with the team 😭 Miss Kitty fantastico 🙃 Xander delivering clothes to everyone. Adam taking out Buffy & Forrest so easily. Not Spike messing with Willow & Tara. Angel in town! “Don’t push me boy” 🙌🏼 Angel & Riley fight! Buffy laying down the law. Buffy/Angel hallway scene 🖤 “I don’t like him” 😂 The team at each other’s throats. Drunk Giles 😂 Tara & Anya avoiding the fighting in the bathroom. Willow called Tara her girlfriend! 💚 The drama 😭 Riley what are you doing sir? The cliffhangers are getting crazier as we get closer to the finale! Really enjoying this season. Hope the team pulls it together & figures out how to stop Adam. Absolutely killing these reactions guys! 🖤

[@loriwilson1916]

Can't wait for you guys find out what happens next!!

[@Itsjandz105]

Willow and Oz finally get the closure they didn’t get to have in 4x6.

[@ChristaBlack-gn8ys]

The coming out scene 😭💕

[@carson9359]

Great video, guys!😊 I can't believe we're almost in season 5. Creeped up on me quickly!

[@heather9857]

Yes! Can’t wait to watch this tonight. Buffy and Angel have so many BANGERS in a row right now.

[@FilmBuff54]

I love Tara and Willow. The chemistry between Amber Benson and Alyson Hannigan can’t be faked. My favorite couple in the series.

[@Philbert-s2c]

Although technically it was, since both actresses are straight.

[@nac.mac.feegle]

Agree, though I loved Willow and Oz very much.

[@MrLorenzovanmatterho]

Gentlemen, prepare to have your hearts broken! It strange now to think how difficult it was for them to get Tillow on the air, Joss had to threaten to resign and David Greenwalt said the studio only agreed to it because they were essentially afraid of him.

[@Doverkin]

I liked Oz n Willow, but i Love Tara n Willow more 🥰

[@kayfryed1379]

I love them both for Willow. Both Oz and Tara have places/roles to help Willow grow. Tara is probably my favorite Buffy character. 💜

[@Doverkin]

@@kayfryed1379 yh i also loved Oz in season 1 &2 but felt a disconnect in season 3. Tara also also in my top 3 chars of all time in buffy

[@KattVonTease]

As soon i see sergio cry it always sets me off 😂❤❤ loving the buffy series ❤

[@jintymcginty1]

Your reaction when Oz appeared at the door😂😂😂

[@arc7375]

22:08 “You can not have more catnip. You have a catnip problem!” 👀

[@TheRetroGuy2000]

Nice reaction, guys! "Spikeathan" was VERY funny! Actually, Spike's real name is William Pratt.

[@reneeg9406]

19:56🤣🤣🤣🤣 damn our brains 🤣🤣 I watched this so many times... but after my child got through preschool.. I can't hear that line without going where you went.... it's now a permanent plant in my head

[@reneeg9406]

Drunk Giles is the best Giles 🤣

[@zenithquasar9623]

Cody's reaction to Giles getting startled is me!

[@sarahlouise7991]

That shout at the end of the episode 20 reaction😂😂😂😂😂 I did the same the first time I saw it!

[@Anghooeyrhymeswithjulie]

Say what you like about Season 4, but don't forget it brought Harmony the Vampire.

[@Philbert-s2c]

Oh S4 is great for so many reasons but that's right up there.

[@Maca494]

"is Spike even his real name?" of course it is.

[@user-dx2dm8oq8g]

It's been a while now that Spike's tried to turn them against each other for fun because he can't be physically violent. He's realizing that Adam is just using him and not planning to help him, he might turn on him.

[@rianneadams5729]

27:24 🤣 the reaction to this sent me

[@invadertifxiii]

Back after angel ❤ I love Giles singing

[@thehorrorbandwagon]

I can’t wait to watch REPO! I heard he’s in it!

[@invadertifxiii]

@@thehorrorbandwagon yesssss

[@rosshall6475]

Spike's full name is "William the Bloody"

[@randeecarreno4289]

Happy "Buffy, the Vampire Slayer" Thursday evening(a day late)with Sergio & Cody! 😊 Two really great episodes. Episode 4x19: Oz returns! I've always liked Willow's "coming out" scene with Buffy. Great performances by Alyson Hannigan and Sarah Michelle Gellar. And it's the beginnings of Willow and Tara. 🥰 Episode 4x20: Spike turns the Scoobies against each other. Angel returns to Sunnydale(after the events of a previous episode of "Angel"), and meets Riley. Forever loving the he Angel vs. Riley fight in the alley(sorry to any Riley fans, but I'm always Team Angel here). Willow calls Tara her girlfriend for the first time. And how about that cliffhanger at the end of the episode!?!!! Already looking forward to the reactions for the last two season 4 episodes next week. And then it's onto season 5! 😊

[@deutschfan808]

In the entirety of the show, Season 4 is easy to gloss over but it does have its moments. Like you guys said, this is a growing season. Willow has come so far since the first episode of the series and she still has a ways to go 😏. Her growth is so dynamic over the course of the show just like some other characters in the Buffy universe. Season 5 is quite a ride. I can’t wait to see you guys react to it.

[@caitlin329]

Spike's 'attitude' line in The Yoko Factor is probably one of the more significant total accent slips lol. It's always a shaky one, but the odd word makes it impossible for me to ignore

[@GeorgeAlexander3110]

The way I’d be next to spike egging on the drama 😂😂❤

[@arc7375]

🥄 Here you go. Stir the pot, honey!

[@adoreandu-reactions-b5h]

SO HYPE FOR NEXT WEEK

[@saff4997]

We’ve finally reached late realisation lesbian Willow! I’ve been counting down the weeks until you guys got to this point and I’m so happy you seem moved by Tara and Willow. They were so important to me as a child watching the show, and then as a young adult rewatching and realising I had experienced the same stuff in high school and college. I think it’s also important that the show doesn’t play down the connection between Willow and Oz. I don’t care for them romantically much but they were really there for each other and grew from that.

[@d2s_duckling]

Joss Whedon, aka the man who makes you realize you thought you wanted something, but in the end, you don't want it anymore and you realize you want something else. I love Oz, but Willow and Tara, it's indescribable. It's beyond everything you could imagine for Willow. I love the way her coming out has been written. It was so smart and well-written. On a side note, drunk Giles will always make my day. ^^

[@arc7375]

JW gives you what you want exactly when you _dont’t_ want it.

[@d2s_duckling]

@@arc7375 Exactly.

[@leah6849]

Xander filled Riley in on what made Angel lose his soul. As far as he knows it's true happiness with Buffy herself because they loved eachother so much. The way Riley talks about Angel "being up to his old tricks" always felt crappy to me because it implies that he thinks something went on with Angel and Buffy. Petty Angel is the best Angel.

[@unrelatedcoma]

as far as season 4 being mid or lower ranked for people, its not necessarily because of the story or season itself. its just because they had so many actors leave and then they had to work around that. once people find that behind the scenes info out they usually imagine "oh this could have been a totally different season" if they had managed to keep all the actors they wanted for the whole run. so people actually kind of compare the season 4 we got to the season 4 they can imagine which causes them to rank it lower, but to be totally fair it still has some epic episodes like Hush and Who Are You etc.

[@liabowden8526]

I'm not here yet, but as I assume youtubers don't usually see comments on older videos (I could be TOTALLY wrong here, I really don't know how it works from your end) I just wanted to say, if you guys have never seen the movie Ravenous (1999) ... omg, I'd friggin *love* to see you react to it. Robert Carlyle (💚), Guy Pearce, and one of my all time favorite movie scores (it's just so weird & unique). Such an under appreciated horror movie. I *really* like Carlyle in this role. 😅 ok, backtracking to my *actual* spot in the series, lol. Love u guys, fav reactors! (I've watched a fuggin LOT of reactors, y'all are the best🤘💚)

[@s.leochapman417]

Oz was such a great character, and the show was at its best when he was in the main cast (same goes for Cordelia, Faith, etc.).

[@arc7375]

I’m curious if you boys have seen True Blood? I think it’s a show you’ll both enjoy immensely.

[@thehorrorbandwagon]

We haven’t! We’ve seen it recommended and heard it’s quite hot lol Definitely gotta check it out!

[@andrewdunn8778]

Riley's obviously not an actual anarchist but that's still a fist pumping line

[@michaelolivero1626]

My.biggest problem with this episode... the cure to werewolfism is meditation and "keeping your inner cool"? Like Oz was such a spaz before. I guess he was playing it like Dr Banner..."my secret is... I'm always angry"? It's too bad he couldn't fit into the storyline any more, because a werewolf on demand could have been great for the team. Plus. Marc Blucas is soooo tall next to Seth. Ugh. Don't make me wait another week for the season finale 😭

[@carnilia]

THESE 2 EPISODES!!!!!!!!!!!

[@brandonbrooks3033]

SPOILERS Y'all, I cannot wait for season 5!

[@carson9359]

Me too!😊

[@Johaufs]

That’s not a spoiler but same

[@brandonbrooks3033]

@@Johaufs It implies that season 5 is somehow different than other seasons, which for me, would be a spoiler.

[@Clovka]

Spikeathon aka William The Bloody

[@reneeg9406]

Spikes real name is William AKA William the bloody

[@alooncnej4696]

Really great season for Willow's character

[@smkfet]

Really happy for you guys finishing Season 4. Season 4 had some real gems, but the overall plot was ick. There's still a spectrum from "good" episodes and absolute grand slams, but there are no more Beer Bads or Go Fishes for the rest of the series. The only negative left is that one day you'll get to the end.

[@ninipookie]

Finally guys. Was waiting since 2 hours

[@b.castilho4011]

viewing new moon rising in 2024 may seem like buffy is not that supportive of willow, but in 2000, her reaction is very much supportive. she is in shock, highlighting the fact she is distant from her friends, wrap up in her own issues and riley, which is a thing we explore in yoko factor, as are her friends, willow with tara and xander with any, and files in general feeling unneeded. tara and anya also feel the burden of the scoobies being unbalanced by feelings like outsiders themselves, but we see that the acceptance of the group with willows relationship and with tara is as immidiet as it would be on 2000s, a few confused exclamations and business as usual, of course a bit of xander latent teen weird thoughts about sexy lesbians, but that is also a way that whedon found to have the girls show intimacy without actually showing, since the characters couldn't share moréthan subtextual intimacy or handholding, but as dreams they could. weird sexism right? furthermore, whedon was very hand on with the girls storyline (for good or bad) and with tara's story (for good or bad), being the one to write and direct all of their milestone eps and personally threating to walk out if the network didn't allow him to show the very first wlw kiss on cable tv ever. so, as much as I hate the men, thanks whedon for that damn huge step in lgbt history,....and another huge leap as well, but too much of a spoiler that one would be. and always, thanks to amber benson and aly hannigan for playing the wonderful tara and willow. specially tara, damn most amazing character on tv in a long time.

[@reneeg9406]

26:14.... Not weird at all... totally hot, in a OMG sorta way ❤

[@reneeg9406]

"there's gonna be trauma" Duh.. it's Joss🤷‍♀️

[@arc7375]

Both on and off the screen. 👀

[@tiamod]

I really insist on getting a moderator, some Buffy “fans” have an inability to not spoil shit.

[@zenithquasar9623]

Have the boys seen ForRiley yet?

[@arc7375]

🎺

[@elphiegreen]

I attribute my gayness to Willow and Tara I love them so much, both of your reactions to them sounds EXACTLY like me every single time I watch through this show

[@charmedoriginal5923]

Cody & Sergio, are today's "Angel" reactions still being uploaded today ?

[@thehorrorbandwagon]

Just Uploaded! Sorry for the delay!

[@jcarterla]

Sergio, you came out when you came out of your momma gurl.

[@LissaBroyles]

Nobody wants to admit it, but Willow didn't outright choose Tara... She had the decision taken out of her hands by Oz's condition & subsequent departure. She's happy with Tara, but imo she got off easy not having to break someone's heart, & who she would've chosen with all things ideal is still ambiguous.

[@ernesthakey3396]

Oz's first mistake was never even calling anyone in Sunnydale before just showing up. I don't know if polyamory was even on the radar in the early 2000s, but I always thought that if Oz could learn to control his wolf just a little better, and if the three of them weren't locked into thinking monogamy is the only relationship style, they would make a very strong throuple. While Willow claims to be lesbian, I think if bisexual was more acceptable at the time, she might well identify as such. She clearly loves both Oz and Tara. Oz is normally pretty chill - and wants Willow to be happy. Tara was willing to be Willow's friend regardless of her decision, and wanted her to be happy. And Willow is kind of needy. I think Oz and Tara could share Willow, and become good friends as well. Two powerful witches, with a werewolf for muscle - I would totally watch that spinoff show.

[@thalia9789]

I like the idea of them being poly! I think it would've suited them well

[@ernesthakey3396]

@@thalia9789 right?!? Sigh, for what could have been...

[@migmit]

If I remember correctly, Joss tried to make her bi, but the network said “gays are edgy, but bisexuals are just gross”.

[@arc7375]

⁠@@migmit That’s not correct. He had planned from the beginning to make either Willow or Xander gay. Which is why Willow being foreshadowed as gay was done in season 3. But the intention was there in season 1. At the time, being bisexual was immensely more acceptable than being gay. In fact, people often came out as bi _instead_ of stating they were gay, because it wasn’t held with the scorn being fully gay was. The network forbade _any_ signs of gay affection from being shown. Which is why any intimacy between gay characters had to be done under the metaphor of casting magic together. Conversely, straight characters could openly kiss, display affection and be depicted having sex. One episode this season literally depicts Buffy and Riley having sex for the entire episode. I’ve no idea where you got your information from. 😯

[@gleamnightmare]

Lesbians can also have former relationships with men sooo

[@Silverlionfh7]

TERRIFIER 3

[@Marvel_vs_Capcom84]

Again I am going to ask and hopefully someone can help clarify, If these guys are a week ahead on patron, Are they rewatching episodes they already seen for KZbin?

[@thehorrorbandwagon]

Hey sorry for the delay on this! We are a week ahead on Patreon, they have the full episode reaction. Everything is first time watch!

[@Marvel_vs_Capcom84]

@@thehorrorbandwagon Thank you.

[@razycrandomgirl]

Xander is gross for running right to Riley and spilling his guts about how Angel lost his soul. What a disappointment. It always makes me wonder what if jesse lived abs xander didn't...

[@ChristianAnstes]

Since im not a member of the lgbtq community my question might be cause i have no personal experience on the matter but if i may ask, is willows path from liking guys to Tara a usual way of coming out? Im not against it but i was always confused by the way and speed it happened, cause through seasons 1-3 she always showed that she was always interested in Xander since childhood and then she was with Oz and unless im missing the signs, she showed no signs that she had any slight interest in girls. Suddenly will and Tara meet and bang they're in love. I know that this whole decision was prob decided by Joss wheadon but it felt rushed, i would have thought they would bring this over the course of maybe more than one season. Maybe its the scriptwriting, was their mutual interest in magic a major tilting point, was the speed and the way it happened portrayed well?

[@josephdavis9234]

It's complicated, admittedly. A lot of gay people - men and women alike - had crushes on their opposite-gender friends growing up, which can largely be attributed to social expectations. It's entirely plausible that Willow might have never even considered the possibility that she was gay as a child, so she expected that she'd fall in love with boys, and hey, what do you know, she's already friends with one. It's a natural jump to make when homosexuality isn't even a possibility that you've taken into consideration. And a boy like Oz, who is Xander's superior in every way, would produce similar feelings. On the other hand, it is also entirely plausible that Willow is bisexual, attracted to both men and women, and Tara was just the first woman she was into, and thus the one who made her realize she was LGBT. Bi erasure is a real thing, and so it's plausible that Willow would, upon recognizing her same-sex attraction, identify as strictly lesbian because bisexuality, especially in the 90s, was even less mainstream than homosexuality. Alternatively alternatively, bisexuality, as it was known, was highly stigmatized, associated with promiscuity and being unwilling to 'settle' for just one, and it's plausible that Willow might identify as lesbian specifically for the benefit of Tara, who is notably more insecure than Willow and, as far as I'm aware, has never had an opposite-sex relationship.

[@arc7375]

⁠​⁠@@josephdavis9234 Great response. With the idea of bi-erasure, however, that’s a very recent, contemporary trend. I can tell you first hand that in the 90s and early 2000s, being gay was still largely a societal taboo, especially for men with the recent AIDS crisis having taken place and still an issue. And that being bisexual was not stigmatised _at all._ Many people used to claim they were bisexual when they were indeed gay because it was _far_ more socially acceptable at the time. Male homosexuality was associated with promiscuity, AIDS and death, and female homosexuality wasn’t understood at all.

[@caitlin329]

​​​@@arc7375Bi-erasure was definitely a thing in the 90s and into the 00s. Acknowledging it broadly may be more recent, but they've always been accused of being 'secretly gay/straight', 'confused' or 'greedy'. I do think there's a distinction to be made between people within the community and broader society as a whole. Straight people at the time (as with the TV execs in Willow's case) 'understood' gay more readily. That's why Willow isn't bisexual & there aren't really many bisexual characters on TV at the time, when there were gay ones.

[@carlyholmes3604]

Spikes last name was platt or Pratt

[@PunkToledoGirl97]

William Pratt is Spike’s human name.

[@Doverkin]

but its not reveled till next season lol spoilers

[@arc7375]

Ironic, because “Pratt” is a word in English that means “idiot” - and we often use it as an insult. I’m not sure many international viewers may pick up on that. Sadly, I don’t think Angel/Liam’s human surname is ever revealed.

[@apetass123]

@@arc7375 "According to Buffy: The Watcher's Guide: Volume One, Angel's real name before he turned into vampire was Liam O'Malley." Like the comedian Conner O'Malley, lol. Looked it up because I was curious.

[@arc7375]

@@apetass123 Seriously? Now I can’t unsee Thomas O’Malley the Alley cat from Aristocats. 🤣

[@razycrandomgirl]

2nd!

[@thehorrorbandwagon]

🙌🙌🙌🙌

[@alexgraetzer]

Tara is just so amazing. I can't put into words how much I love her and how much Amber Benson has done for the Buffyverse in general. I really recommend you check out and react to I Saw the TV Glow if you get the chance.

[@migmit]

1) I never got to like Tara 2) I love Oz

[@invadertifxiii]

Oh no I hope u watched the other angel episode before this one

[@thehorrorbandwagon]

Oh We did, we are watching them in the crossover order! It just ended up landing this way for the KZbin edit for this week lol

[@invadertifxiii]

@@thehorrorbandwagon yay ok😊 so excited to see the reaction tomorrow, I might just hold off on episode 20 of buffy til then

[@7b7BenGazing]

Be back before “____”

[@arc7375]

Not yet.

[@7b7BenGazing]

@@arc7375 🤫

[@leesmith9299]

i must be the only viewer that is quite indifferent to both oz and tara. they're kind of blah to me. i wish i knew what it was or how to describe it but they share a quality that just doesn't do it for me.

[@xDezxdisasterx]

Boys i know you orefer angel but us spike fans from day one yes hes spike and his name is william the bloody ugh so frustrating lol and yall questioning rilie and his firend are yall paying attention sheesh im screaming every episode lol❤😂

[@matthewquinn6172]

Straight people just weren’t around out gay people. Of course she was thrown for a second but she quickly got it together.

[@thalia9789]

I mean, I think they know that. They are gay themselves after all

[@matthewquinn6172]

@@thalia9789 they are???????????? OMG I HAD NO IDEA 😬😒🙄