Buffy The Vampire Slayer S07E13/14 ''The Killer in Me/ First Date'' REACTION/COMMENTARY

[@bethanylalala]

The Robin/Spike connection is suuuch a satisfying reveal, I really love this show too lol

[@blotcho84]

The way Robin fits into everything is one of my favorite parts of the season. It's a shame he was introduced in the final season, it would've been cool to see more episodes/storylines with him.

[@sirmoonslosthismind]

@@blotcho84 there have definitely been weird issues around casting nonwhite actors in series about white characters. for example, it was reported that cordelia was originally intended to be black, but that the wb in 1996 would not allow interracial relationships, and the mess with xander, willow, oz, and cordelia was on the drawing board from the very beginning. whedon preferred to go with a white actor rather than dropping the plot or fighting for it.

[@IaHa-rr3hl]

I seem to remember Antony Stewart Head saying in an interview that one of the hardest parts of filming series 7 up to episode 13 was never being able to touch anyone or anything on set just to have us all wondering if he really was the first Evil when the scoobies were all trying to remember if he had hugged any of them or handed them something. I've always loved both of his payoff lines. "Wait, you think i'm evil if i bring a group of girls on a camping trip and i don't touch them?..." and "....Why did you tackle me then, you Berk?!"

[@grrrrbabyverygrrr8165]

Alison and sarah absolutely kill it when they cry. They do ugly crying and make your soul hurt every time.

[@gehrehmee]

"poor spike" you wouldn't have said that 15 episodes or so ago -- says something about how wild spike's character development has been this season.

[@eduardofilippi7698]

31:52 Well... she said, "poor, poor, poor Xander." too, so maybe the guys are doing great this season finally :D

[@Henrik_Holst]

It's always interesting to see reactors reacting to Seeing Red and the obligatory "I don't care about Spike anymore, he is dead to me and nothing they do will ever redeem him for me" and just a few episodes later they are straight back on the Spike train.

[@eduardofilippi7698]

​@Henrik_Holst To be fair, it's William now. Like Angelus vs Angel thing. SSDD.

[@gehrehmee]

@@eduardofilippi7698 Angel never took back his human name "Liam", and Spike never re-claimed his human name of "William" (although a couple people called him that once or twice).

[@Henrik_Holst]

@@eduardofilippi7698 compared to Angelous/Angel that would have been Angel/Liam but it isn't so who really is he? He is not really Spike and he is not really William :)

[@Logan_Baron]

Yes, different actress. The first one to play the New York Slayer was hired, because she was a stunt person, and all the scenes were just action scenes. Now that we get into this, they went with an actress.

[@nathanielbacon2661]

I think it's important for Willow's story that she accept Tara's death and move on. That doesn't mean she's replacing Tara. In fact, I think the show is making it clear that while there is an attraction between Willow and Kennedy, they don't need to be anything close to Willow and Tara. It's less about their romance and more about Willow's growth and healing.

[@Richard_Ashton]

When I first saw this episode, it was around 5 months from 'Seeing Red' and I was quite happy for Willow to regain some love and happiness in her life. Iyari Limon gained a lot of hatred because of Kennedy's love for Willow and I was concerned that many commentators wanted Willow unhappy, seemingly, forever.

[@ferrisulf]

I feel like they could have shown growth and healing without romance. What season 7 is really missing is the great conversations between Buffy, Xander, and Willow in particular. It felt wrong they glossed over the loss of Tara so much, and that the episode they really gave it focus was to bring in a new love interest.

[@lawrencewestby9229]

"Seeing Red" was broadcast in early May, "The Killer in Me" in early February, so it had been around nine months assuming that the series timeline is about the same as our calendar year.

[@Richard_Ashton]

@@lawrencewestby9229 That's a much longer dry spell for Willow. I always hoped that Kennedy would be just the right woman to bring the joy back.

[@Richard_Ashton]

@@ferrisulf This could happen off-screen so it would not impact on the story telling. With there being a limited number of episodes left, it would have significantly condensed the plot development.

[@jeremiah3274]

I noticed that the score that plays during Willow's confession is an extension of the score played in Conversations With Dead People when she speaks to the First, believing it's Tara.

[@theadamabrams]

36:41 This season has _so_ many callbacks. In 7x13 we had name-drops of Principal Flutie (season 1) and Riley (S4-5), physically visiting The Initiative (S4), and the Slayer summoning dance (S5). Now we have Niki Wood from 5x07 back, albeit recast. When Spike was kidnapped earlier in the season we had a handful of episodes with the First as Drusilla (S2). In a sense the entire high school is a callback to S1-3, and as you know there are more concrete S3 features later. They did a great job of making this the final season.

[@alanbeers4808]

Your response to anything Tara is exactly mine. "It wasn't women, it was woman. Just one" and the best woman ever too.

[@donaldfleming5049]

Just when you think you've got the season all figured out, Joss Whedon throws a massive curve ball at you. The reveal that Principal Wood was the son of a Slayer was epic, but then you get hit with the added twist that it was Spike who killed her. That's what floors you.

[@nathanielbacon2661]

Very well done. Though Marti Noxon was behind all the big decisions this season and last season, not Joss. She was the showrunner once Buffy hit UPN.

[@danh8804]

people do not give Adam nearly enough credit for the tail end of Warren's arc or for his work as the tormented Willow in this episode

[@killianlpc]

First Date, I think this was a pretty good entertaining episode. As we have been led to believe we know there is more to Principal Wood, and of course he has an arsenal of knives and swords in a cupboard in the school as you would. When Buffy does go on the date with Wood, we see him in Jackie Chan/Jet Li mode as a martial arts master! We know as well that Xander seemed to get the date too easy with what Anya called the 'hardware whore', both Spike and Anya experiencing jealousy here. When Wood does come clean to Buffy he mentions his mother was a Slayer, and his mother's Watcher raised him. The part Ashanti played was written specially for her as she was a huge fan of the show, and as with Xander's previous experience with women we know that eventually she will be some sort of demon, as Willow said back in Something in S4 Blue to Xander 'you're a real demon magnet'. The First trying to work through Jonathan to Andrew is interesting, however as foolish and cowardly as he is, he seems to be doing the right thing this time. Funny when Willow gets the coded text from Xander trying to decode it. Spike appearing at the restaurant is funny playing gooseberry, but then we see Xander getting stabbed by Lissa/Ashanti. When they turn up to free Xander after the fight and Lissa is defeated, we see Buffy go to Spike, and we see Wood's face. Giles getting fed up of all the comedy is telling, and very telling scene when Buffy says to Spike she wants him to stay. Great final scene with Wood and his mother as The First Evil and telling him Spike killed her. A really good reveal here, that of course we always suspected leading to some great following episodes on that particular theme.

[@jennarobinson4136]

It's such a joy watching your reactions, and I love how much of a Spuffy shipper you are! :) And the Principal Wood reveal is so good, loved seeing you realise the connection!

[@bobapjok4241]

Amazing acting by Warren and Willow being each other

[@grife3000]

Different actress for Wood's mom. But the hairdo and the coat do the job well enough in clueing you in. Plus how this show loves to twist the knife.

[@invadertifxiii]

i definitely think that the killer in me is a very important for willows character

[@ronfehr7899]

This episode took a little longer than usual to finish taping. In the required scenes, both Alyson Hannigan and Adam Busch read Willow's lines. It was in editing that the decision was made whose performance to use in specific scenes.

[@McCrispyTaco]

Yeah it would’ve been nice to see Graham and Riley return in this episode.

[@evatesche]

I feel like the whole Giles-might-be-The-First thing was only done so the scoobies had something to do this episode and so that they could have the punchline of not touching girls on a camping trip..

[@bugsby4663]

Thinking about it, Giles drove with the potentials to Buffy's and drove them to the desert, so he could touch.

[@dancerkris95]

Actually, he didn't drive for either of those because he didn't have his u.s. license renewed due to living back in England. So he would have one of the potentials to drive.

[@grrrrbabyverygrrr8165]

I don't really blame Amy that much, she was kept as a rat for ages and they didn't even bother to help much. If that was someone else in the scoobies they would have gone above and beyond to help change them to humans again.

[@Nicamon]

But the moment she was turned back into a person she had a completely different personality than the last time we saw her...and how did she become so powerful if she couldn't practice magic for so long?Also...she did not realize how much time have passed so the"they kept her a rat for a long time"excuse doesn't apply because she didn't even notice (although _it is true_ that if she was"a Scooby"they would have tried much harder to turn her back)!She was just turned into a Villain from 1 moment to another because the plot needed to.

[@alooncnej4696]

​@@Nicamon she was already a powerful witch and had abilities Willow hasn't like she changed her as a rat. As adult people even good can change and have a bad behaviour. Her writting was quick but well done too.

[@phueal]

@@alooncnej4696 she did have powerful abilities, like turning people into rats which Willow couldn’t do! But also I just noticed something during Becoming Part 1 when Willow is talking about restoring Angel’s soul: Giles cautions that “letting something so powerful flow through you could open a very dangerous door” or something like that. It’s possible that it’s not so much about innate power as about what you can safely control - maybe Amy just allowed more of the powerful magic to “flow through” her and opened a door to more and more power, with more and more danger.

[@cajah88]

@@Nicamon I feel like fans kinda ignore that throughout S2 and S3 we were already being shown that Amy was abusing magic and using it to her benefit. They were small moments, but that was already an established part of her character. S6 just took it further as a way to further Willow's development. In a perfect world, we would have gotten a little more development around Amy, but that would also require her to be a more than a reoccurring member of the cast.

[@Nicamon]

@@cajah88 Yeah,but one thing is to abuse magic,another is to be _good_ in doing that. The last time we saw Amy using magic she turned herself into a rat without having any idea of how to turn herself back and now,after years of magical inactivity,she's almost at the same level of Willow who got 3 full more years of practice?!?THIS is what I find strange,even more than her sudden Full Villain attitude! I mean..both things(her being a Full Villain and her being a pro in using magic)have come out in full force out of nowhere,not after a gradual development like in Willow's case!

[@invadertifxiii]

now i noticed this first few times i watched the episode but did anyone else notice they reused a second from the gift episode when the first vampire walked around the corner in the first date episode

[@wills3rdgirl]

Yeah the "oh God, my leg my leg" one 😂

[@invadertifxiii]

@@wills3rdgirl see now we're communicating😊

[@beckyrhush2122]

Quick note... as a lesbian who watched this in real time, we will never get over Tara BUT we were so glad the writers weren't like, "yep, we buried our gays, now Willow is going back to boys!" So Kennedy is NO Tara, but we were really thrilled she was at least a woman. Times were very different. Thank God, lol.

[@menachemsalomon]

Amy is one of those side characters that managed to make it into almost every season of _Buffy._ Starting from the second storyline, in Episode 1-3, to putting a glamour hex on Xander in Season 2, to inspiring and being a victim of MOO is Season 3, to a cameo in Willow's heartbreak over Oz in Season 4. Then being a bad influence on Willow in Season 6, to her appearance here in this episode, in Season 7.

[@DanielOrme]

While I'm not a Kennedy fan, either (there aren't many in the fandom), I don't dislike her in this episode. I give her credit for her boldness in going after Willow, and at the end she seems to have gained some understanding. The real point of the ep is, I think, to give Willow and the audience a chance to genuinely mourn the loss of Tara. I know that it really bothered a lot of us how the ending of Season 6 went so fast that it didn't allow us to do so. This finally lets us. 😢

[@sirmoonslosthismind]

there's more of us than you think. and kennedy deserves so much better from the fandom. she deserves major props for how she handles the whole turning-into-warren thing.

[@xyex]

It's not boldness. It's aggressive pushiness and it's one of the things I hate about her. Willow keeps trying to say no and Kennedy doesn't want to listen. Basically bullies her into things. There's a reason I kill her off in any fic she appears in~

[@grrrrbabyverygrrr8165]

She did slip and say "still in love with spike" not her first Freudian slip about him. It does indicate that she was in love with him last season (maybe even since Intervention) but wouldnt accept it. Personally, i think she fell for him the second she found out he sacrificed himself for dawn.

[@xyex]

Actually, it's not a slip. It's a flub. The line, as written in the shooting script, is "Why does everyone *still think* I'm in love with Spike." Sarah flipped the dialogue around and it was just such a small thing that it was never caught. Buffy never loved Spike. She's clear about that the entire series.

[@grrrrbabyverygrrr8165]

@xyex the shooting script is not always the final script. Plenty of lines in the shooting scripts were changed in season 7 (the soul reveal scene is totally different in shooting script compared to what we got). So your logic is flawed. The last episode of the season and what joss has also confirmed means you are lying through your teeth in your last comment 😆 🤥 I've worked in film production, and trust me, there are rarely any little mistakes that get through like that. It was an intentional change. Also even the shooting script line STILL is a Freudian slip about her feelings of love for him.

[@xyex]

@@grrrrbabyverygrrr8165 Yes, sure, scenes get rewritten. Sometimes lines get cut. But this is a SINGLE word getting flipped. It's not the same. That's undeniably a flub. Period. The last episode _literally proves me right_ and Joss's comments don't actually matter. Literally the only reason we're having this convo is because the network FORCED him to keep Spike when he was supposed to die in S2 to Angelus. Also, nice lie at the end. Thanks for telling me you're not worth talking to anymore. Go sit on a cactus, troll. Just accept it and move on. Nothing says you can't like Spuffy or choose to head canon it as more. Just that it's *not there* in the show.

[@grrrrbabyverygrrr8165]

@xyex LOL OK so the second you say Joss Whedons words don't matter is the moment I can't take you seriously. Lmao 🤣. He is the show creator and writer of the episode 🤣 😂 💀 😭 😆 Done here.. lmaooo. Totally nullified...your opinion on it is more factual than Joss' actual comments, huh? 😆 Not only that, they canonically end up together in later comic seasons and buffy loves him.

[@menachemsalomon]

Yeesh, calm down, both of you. The detail about the shooting script is interesting, but it doesn't change is that she said that everyone _thinks_ she is, or was and still is, in love with Spike. And she's annoyed people think so, because she thinks they're wrong. She's admitted to caring for him, needing him, and him "being in [her] life", but she's denied being in love with him, and this line of dialogue, whether as written or as spoken, does not change that. And the two of you ought to calm down. Having a different interpretation of a scene, or even misremembering a scene, does not call for accusations of "lying through your teeth," and I couldn't quite catch what inspired the accusation in the opposite direction of being a liar and a troll, but I saw nothing that called for it. (Unless working in film production and using the term Freudian slip is such a bad thing that it does.) Anyway, in the series finale, Buffy says she loves Spike. I think Spike accurately interprets what she says and what she means: She is not "in love" in the romantic sense, but she has come to love and respect him as a friend. Buffy says much the same to Xander at some point. In the finale, she says it in such a way as to imply the romantic sense as well, and Spike calls her on her lie -- the feeling in that sense only goes as far as physical satisfaction, and any such future interactions have been forestalled by past events.

[@demitwice]

your hair looks so pretty!!

[@NoThankUBeQuiet]

I love Ashanti so much she's so funny even as a demon

[@TheInfamousRPGGroup-on-Rumble]

Kennedy QUICKLY became the new Dawn of the show: everyone hated her the most lol i also like how "Oh God, My Leg!" made an appearance

[@ferrisulf]

While I feel like everything was rushed and fragmented this episode, the standout performance is Adam Busch. We didn't get to see his full range of acting skills when he played Warren. And he played Warren well. We hated him like we were supposed to. But the anguish, the emotion he conveys this episode is top-notch.

[@nathanielbacon2661]

I disagree, honestly. I think his acting looks weaker because Alyson Hannigan is a much, much stronger actor and cutting back and forth between the two performances is unflattering IMO.

[@ferrisulf]

@@nathanielbacon2661 I actually preferred it cutting back and forth. To each their own. ^_^

[@bluesilvahalo3576]

I felt exactly the same about Kennedy. It wasn't just that it felt too soon, she didn't seem mature enough or life savvy enough for Willow and it did seem too soon and contrived. I liked Kennedy but never fully accepted her and Willow.

[@troikas3353]

Not every relationship needs to be the one true love that'll last a life time. Sometimes it's just two people in a place that need eachother for right now. Nothing inherently wrong with that and honestly it's the way most relationships end up working out. I always saw them as just two people that fulfilled the needs they had in the moment; Willow needing to feel wanted and worthy of it again, Kennedy needing someone to lean on and vent stress with. I always thought they probably wouldn't last much past the finale and that it would probably even be amicable.

[@Desibeatnik]

Haha I was waiting for that realization to set in about the fact that Principal Wood's mother was the slayer that Spike killed

[@dayceem]

and it's a Sofie reaction so you know it's going to hit home and hit hard

[@rfresa]

I feel like they deliberately wrote Kennedy to be as different from Tara as possible, without being actually evil. Confident and even arrogant rather than timid and humble, pushy and bratty rather than self-effacing and kind, dominating with a masculine energy in ways rather than modest and womanly, militaristic rather than pacifistic, sporty instead of intellectual, rich instead of poor, worldly rather than earthy. Let's face it, people would still hate her even if she was more similar to Tara, but they would call her a poor imitation. I don't really like her as a person, but I find her a pretty interesting character and wish we knew more about her.

[@Maca494]

i love how usually people dont get the "i was the child of the slayer" instantly. i remember getting it instantly, either he was the son of the one Spike killed, or another slayer after her and before Buffy...not that many options XD also Spike being a cutie with a soul and them not getting together now is frustrating, yes. we want the something blue Buffy-Spike!!

[@CvSp22]

Willow and Tara should be forever. I don't hate Kennedy, i love her sassy style and she i in that moment really the perfect person to bring Willow back to herself, but Tillow will be always endgame - we want her back❤! Watching your reaction made me notice for the first time, that there is some kind of similarity between Willow and Angel: Both turnded into there worst nightmare at a point, where they stopped suffering for a moment.

[@DrawingPicture]

You're all of us with Willow dating someone new : it's too soon. And the character got way too much hate because we just didn't want them to date Willow.

[@xyex]

Nah, Kennedy got hate because she's a horrible person. Seeing Willow move on with someone good would have been awesome. So moving on wasn't remotely the issue. Kennedy was.

[@May-ro5ow]

Great reaction as always ❤

[@bobapjok4241]

I remember watching this when it came out and watching Giles when he first showed up and thinking it is kind of weird that he isnt actually touching anything and standing in ways that are odd looking. having other people do the touching, nobody hugging him when he came back and all that. was interesting thinking that might be where they were going with this.

[@lessismore8533]

Buffy and Giles are very close but that doesn’t mean they’ll always agree on things. Though it was pretty shady for Goes to go behind Buffy back. However we KNOW Giles still respects Buffy cus Robin TEMPTED him into taking his side, Giles was originally hesitant about it

[@thomasdendtler4077]

A lot of people hate Kennedy, and I just don't get it. Sure, she's a trust fund brat, but that's not the worst thing a character can be. She still really cool

[@xyex]

She's a pushy arrogant brat who forces her way into places she doesn't belong, and thinks she's better than everyone. She's my most hated character in the show and I always spend this episode wanting someone to punch her in the face.

[@natbatlightwood5288]

While i am not a fan of the Kennedy/Willow romance, i do love this episode, it is beautifully done, and i think was a great way to acknowledge how deep Tara's death really hurt Willow. It just felt too soon after Tara and her death was barely acknowledged outside of that one scene in the graveyard up until this point. And obviously the direction the Potentials such as Kennedy takes as the series progresses didn't help the situation, but overall i do love this episode. (Honestly, allot of the issues with the Potentials stems from how long it took them to actually bring then to Sunnydale, there's no chance to really develop them and Kennedy being one of the most prominant Potentials she suffered the most. Season 7 had allot of issues from a structure stand point.) Edit: also the Giles not touching anything was apparently Anthony Stewart Head's idea, to keep the audience guessing, whether he was The First.

[@Nicamon]

*All of this!* 👆 #Justice4Kennedy 🖤 I've _always_ found Anya quite annoying so I can't judge her,but,on the contrary,I never really found Kennedy annoying. Not more than other characters who have never been accused of being that or never that openly at least. I mean...Faith is annoying in several occasions..has everyone *ever* pointed that out? I don't think so. Dru&Spike are *HELLA ANNOYING* in *A LOT* of occasions!Has anyone ever said that apart from me?!?Hell no because they're sO cOoL X-PPP Giles is annoying too,but somehow every single reactor I see treats him like he's the best character ever!!Seriously,I could make *a whole LIST* of characters who have annoyed me far more than Kennedy EVER did!!Joyce annoyed me a lot,Dawn annoyed me a lot,Snyder was *MADE* to annoy everyone who crossed his field of view...I also find Andrew extremely annoying...both when he's a Villain and when he's not. Of all these characters the only one who got close to get a similar amount of hatred that Kennedy gets is Dawn but even her manages to have the fandom and the reactors to get fond of her at some point because she's a main character and she's Buffy's little sister and blah blah blah. Same treatment for Joyce for the sole fact that she's Buffy's mother but apparently being Willow's girlfriend is not enough to obtain the Fandom Immunity.X-P Don't know how that works. "They really needed another Season to really give the story justice."True. "Season 7 had so much potential...pun intended..."LOL.😉 "sorry if i rambled a bit, Season 7 had so much potential...pun intended...it just frustrates me how it was handled."Don't worry about rambling with me...you're talking with someone who is spending *decades* complaining about Spike's character development with a fandom composed for 99,999% of people who love him *exactly* for that character development!🤬💢(Also,I'm probably the only person of the whole fandom who is _on the Scoobies' side_ during _that scene_ that"everybody hates",so...)

[@natbatlightwood5288]

@@Nicamon agreed. Not a bad character by any means. They just took way too long to actually introduce her (and the othet Potentials) that there really was no time to develop her as a character outside this one episode. Like she as a few cool moments but its from here the downslide starts and her attitude shifts from cocky but a bit endearing to just straight up annoying. Same applies to characters like Rona and even Anya to a degree. Season 7 as a whole is a bit of a mess. They spent too many episodes in the first half doing monster of the week stuff that had no bearing on the main story, so by the time things really start kicking into gear they're introduce and drop plot points, characters begin acting out of character. They really needed another Season to really give the story justice. Like i know Sarah Michelle Gellar wanted to leave but surely they could've reached a deal for a 12 episode 8th Season just to give the story better pacing. Heck they could've even used that one episode that happens later that everybody hates to justify why Buffy isn't around. Have Buffy go on her own quest and then have them all reunite for the finale like they did. Would've given more time to the Potentials, more time to develop the story, and allowed Sarah to do other things because she wouldn't actually be needed for the full run...this is one of those things i gave way too much though to over the years, sorry if i rambled a bit, Season 7 had so much potential...pun intended...it just frustrates me how it was handled. 🤣🤣🤣

[@jaythegreenling]

i will never get over tara, and i don't think willow has to get over her to move on tbh. i think the idea of having to get over someone you lost is very sad and depressing. you should be allowed to still love them, to still miss them, to still carry them with you. i think you need to finish mourning and get to a healthy place first, but i don't think moving on diminishes that love in any way.

[@PatiAnn]

Your correct nobody can replace Tara... but Willow has to grieve... that I agree... Kennedy, I didn't like much either way back when... but Willow shouldn't be alone either... Spike took her jacket too 😅

[@vikkidonn]

Buffy has repeatedly admitted she loves spike several times before now. The first person she admitted it to was Tara actually….. when Tara said it buffy has a look of shock realization and freezes. Tara sees this and then rambles to make Buffy feel better but it was too late. That’s when Buffy broke down. Also several times throughout the last two seasons Buffy has made comments about loving someone bad for her or made jokes about a guy in her life she loves/loved…. The scoobies repeatedly respond with the assumption she’s talking about Angel… but if you watch the interactions everytime they say it’s about Angel she makes a face and looks away or nods silently. Unless she herself verbalized she was talking about Angel then ALL those comments were actually about spike. So yes she loves spike. She just never openly said it in present tense. She’s been in denial, and then hated the fact.

[@stephaniebarker472]

Perhaps I'm in the minority here but during that conversation with Tara, I read that "look of shock" as stress and sadness that she in fact didn't love Spike... or at least just thought, "No, he's an evil vampire, I can't love him"- which is why Tara quickly followed up with, "..And it's okay if you don't." And Buffy broke down because she was admitting out loud that she was using Spike, which went against everything she wanted to believe about herself. Also, I heard somewhere that Sarah threw in the word "still" - the original line in the script said "Why does everyone think I'm in love with Spike?" (But, it was a choice by the show to use that take in the episode). Anyway, I don't think Buffy admitted she loved Spike several times before, because she has an incredibly strong moral compass that wouldn't allow her to love him when he was soulless. But since she realized he does now have a soul, she is allowing herself have those feelings. All this to say, the show did a great job at leaving it very ambiguous, so we can all watch their story unfold and read it different ways.

[@eduardofilippi7698]

To me, it's more than a moral compass. She killed hundreds of vampires at this point, so how keep sanity if they aren't just soulless evil things? They just have to be.

[@vikkidonn]

@@stephaniebarker472 it’s really not that ambiguous at all….. Buffy has a habit of hiding and suppressing her true feelings about things to the point her closest friends don’t notice. Only spike seems to…. Throughout the show we’ve seen this…. When she came back after Glory she hid ALOT of her true feelings for and towards her friends and family. The only way you read the interactions differently is if you as an audience member have a particular view of Buffy and therefore don’t want her to have feelings for spike. It’s actually very direct and straight forward. The issue of a soul was her main and only defense of Angel and he still went off the rails. Spike doesn’t have one so there’s nothing she could say to sway her friends into leaving it be. When she was in the crazy house she never once thought seriously of killing everyone till spike said he’d tell everyone about their relationship(that was no longer physical). That’s when she very nearly killed everyone in order to prevent that end result. In fact she makes comments on how the “real her” would love him or want to act and say the things she’s been doing since she came back to life. The same reason the scoobies assumed she was talking about Angel while she was in an active sexual relationship with spike says it all. The only way the audience would make that assumption as if they weren’t aware of her and spikes relationship is if they simply don’t like the two together. Sara prefers bangle and dislikes the last two seasons due to how serious and mature they are. Joss however has made it clear that spiffy was meant to happen and did happen. Especially in 9-12 which are official cannon in comic book format where spuffy continues on and grows into much more.

[@vikkidonn]

@@eduardofilippi7698 she’s already been with Angel and long ago rationalized that situation to get through ALL that drama. At this point it was continued grief of that and spike didn’t have a soul at all and somehow still loved her. That coupled with everything else that’s happened since he showed up like her dying changes a lot. Especially when we find out where the slayer powers even come from. Her moral compass has always been this way.

[@xyex]

LMAO. No. That's absolutely not how that scene with Tara went. Tara rambled because she saw in Buffy's expression that she *didn't* love him. She never has, and never does.

[@killianlpc]

The Killer In Me a pretty decent episode. Here we see Spike having serious head pains. Buffy is of course very concerned, and we also have to rest of The Scoobies wary now of Giles, thinking that he could have been infiltrated by The First Evil, as we never saw the aftermath of his attack in London. This is of course a Red Herring, as Giles is as normal. The interesting part of course with Willow being turned into Warren and being affected by this, with all the rest of the characters thinking it is Warren as well. Funny part when Andrew grabs Willow, which he thinks is Warren by the breasts, and Buffy punches Warren/Willow, and also when Andrew says 'why cant I come because I used to be evil', no says Xander 'it is because you are really annoying'. Kennedy is being very upfront and overtly sexual with Willow, and many fans did not like Kennedy, as they found her too forward and disruptive in the group. Amy was behind it all, and it is Kennedy who finds her out.

[@Buffy8Fan]

Killer in Me - I never had a problem with Kennedy the way the fanbase seemed to in large part because I remember when said fanbase didn't like Tara due to being Oz's replacement. With only one season left and every episode having the characters worrying about the main arc/apocalypse, there wasn't really time to build up the character the way we led into _Family_ with Tara. So we get audience/fans feeling like they're being rushed into the idea of Kennedy dating Willow despite the fact that Willow moved on from Oz with Tara (six months before it was official) quicker than she moves on from Tara to Kennedy (nine months). Kennedy is now a rebound, but nothing proves Willow moved on too quicly. Willow did not necesarally move on too quickly. Willow and Kennedy's kissing beig what stops Amy's spell doesn't mean anything to Willow moving on. It means Willow felt guilty for wanting to move on. That is stated directly, and is the point. And Willow moving on doesn't mean Willow and Kennedy are in a hardcore relationship. I love that the last scene shows Willow moving forward without fully moving on. There is a difference. Willow will never forget Tara, or Oz for that matter. She is still struggling with magic. Kennedy helps her realize all of this, which is another reason why I don't dislike her the way the fanbase does. Riley was Buffy's rebound off of Angel. At this point it was too early to know what Willow and Kennedy would be longterm, but the initial reactions in 2003, people were acting like Willow was in a hardcore relationship right out of the gate, and disliked it because they disliked Kennedy, who wasn't Tara, and who they say was whinny. Personally, I think Rona was the whinny one who annoyed me the way people claimed Kennedy did. Plus, think of what the Scoobies were like at Kennedy's age AKA S4. Kennedy is on point for the age she is, whiny or not. The Scoobies are just getting out of an annoying whiny phase if you think about their S6 actions. The whole series is part of the coming of age story. Kennedy is at a certain age and grew up a certain way AKA the 1% At this point, i'm still asking, _is Willow trustworthy?_ My answer is no. Perhaps the real question should be why is Willow dating someone she knows is at a younger phase of life and grew up rich enough to get what she wants out of life and therefore struggles with not understanding the non 1% of life? This is probably Kennedy's first experience in the real world away friom training and mansions and summer homes, despite her age being eighteen. I cut her a bigger break than I do some of the Scoobies and other SIT's. I love how Spike references ghostbusters without the show itself ever making an official reference. And in large part because Spike is right, the first thing most people think of when they hear that phrase is "GHOSTBUSTERS!!!" One of the first things I found noticeable about the first half of S7 is that this is the way I wished the characters had dealt with the _Becoming_ cleanup in the first half of S3. As kids in the first half of S3 The Scoobies all yelled at each other, but as adults in the first half of this season, they talk to one another more; understanding and moving forward with everyone knowing it will take time to heal. It shows this season has officially left coming of age storytelling behind. With the exception of the SIT's who are still in said phase of life (which is why I cut Kennedy a break and ask why Willow is dating her). Adam Busch (Warren) told a story at a convention about this episode and said that he and Alyson Hannigan (Willow) planned to trade videos of their performances. He compiled everything and Alyson forgot and then commented he could do it and it would be fine while he was in silent panic mode over portraying her. The scene where Willow as Warren arrives in front of the group and they think it's The First really shows the side of The Scoobies that makes me think of the Spike quote "This is the crack team that fouls my every plan. I am deeply shamed." They show just how little they pay attention to exposition. Buffy hits Willow as Warren and then listens to her once they realize they should have just done that for proof or non-proof. Great job Buffy. Sadly, Xander still isn't convinced (he really never trust Buffy or her actions when you put you mind to it) and needs threatened with an Aquaman underoos incident. The whole scene just makes me wish Spike was not heaache-y so he could tell everyone except Buffy off for acting dumb. Even Riley's off screen insults are dumb. Anthony Stewart Head was always hoping and wishing the writers would make him a villain. I imagine this was the only way they could without killing Giles off. That is probably, in part, why _Helpless_ and _The Dark Age_ were written with Giles messing up so badly as well. Creating a situation where Giles did something other than exposition, and intentionally or unintentionally, the writers way of creating what the actor wished without truly making Giles evil, which would seem out of nowhere in all three instances. I have always enjoyed this episode in large part because getting away from the main arc explores more character development than a lot of the season. First Date - "I've taught you all you need to know" was the last thing Giles said to Buffy before he left in S6. He can dislike the decision Buffy made about removing Spike's chip all he wants, but she is an adult. She graduated high school just over three and a half years ago. The lesson he was attempting to teach her (as well as how he was attempting to teach it) in _The Freshman_ and by leaving town. It cannot be taken back just because he dislikes her decision and would do things differently in her shoes. I love that the writers turn Xander's love life into the joke he's made it, but I agree with Giles that they weren't taking the apocalypse seriously enough (odd, considering the above paragraph) and I think its because they have become complacent to how often appocalypses happen. I am never really a fan of the _dating when there are things more important going on_ trope. I give Buffy a little credit in that it was at least undercover work based on not knowing whose side Wood was on, but it also seems like she was trying to convince herself she didn't like Spike when now that he has a soul, and after what they both did to each other in S6. Talk about complicated. Xander just seemed like he was dating to get back out there after he left Anya at the alter, and Willow was encouraging it to distract herself from the fact that she started a casual thing with Kennedy. I know Lissa was played by Ashanti, but I don't think I recognize anything other than her name, even when I see her. I know she was a famous singer but I couldn't tell you what type of music or her song titles. Sad, but true. I wish we got more details on her character's mythology, including her type of demon. Anya being jealous, but wanting to not be could have easily come off badly, but the actor knows how to play Anya well. Anya trying to get Dawn's pizza sauce from Buffy's shirt (back in the _Conversations with Dead People_ episode) is wonderful tie in. More shows should connect things with smaller moments like that. Instead of just the larger moments. To me, in the initial airing, the actress change of Nikki never made me have a shock moment. I love that SoFie was the same way AND guessed Spike's connection. I saw K. D. Aubert in this episode and immediately knew she was Nikki Wood, despite her not being played by April Weeden-Washington (from the _Fool For Love_ episode).

[@Nicamon]

I love all you said about Kennedy and I wish this comment had more Likes just because of that!!👍 #Justice4Kennedy 🖤

[@Buffy8Fan]

@@Nicamon SPOILERS THROUGH THE END OF S7 I've never seen any comment that doesn't on some level equate itself to be because she's not as good as Tara and/or Oz in some way, shape, or form. Everything always boils down to _she's different than them and we don't like that._ I find that sad. Whenever someone tries to call out her attitude I point out the fact that she admits it, which makes her better, in some ways, than some of the Scoobies. Especially considering none of them would do that at her age, and still don't now.

[@stephenharber5694]

Alyson Hannigan “forgot” to give Adam Busch the tapes of her performances.

[@Buffy8Fan]

@@stephenharber5694 It's his story. I don't know her side of it.

[@Junejane4]

24:20 I hoped you watched it carefully enough to catch the "still in love". You usually pay attention. Not everyone sees it and catch it right

[@HWils92]

RE the Kennedy and Willow thing, you're not bad for saying that at all, I think most people were not happy about it, it seemed forced and way too soon after Tara's death

[@hillrp1]

Kennady gets a lot of hate from the fandom that I mostly think is just reactionary and worried that she's meant to "replace Tara". So while I think she can be pushy and overconfident, I think most of the hate is undeserved, but understandable. I also didn't really want Willow to start dating again right away, but I think it's a good thing that the show has a plotline about how it is okay to move on. It needs to be done at your own pace and may look different to different people, but no one who truly loved you would ever want you to hold yourself back from life forever. Especially in the case of Willow and Tara where they are in their early 20s. I don't know, obviously, but I don't think Kennedy was ever intended to be Willow's long term new partner. But I think she helped Willow and, given how kind and understanding we know Tara to have been, I think Tara would thank her for that. We know there's an afterlife in Buffy, so I wouldn't be surprised if in some comic or some writer's headcanon it turned out that Tara tried to subconsciously influence Kennedy to be so forward with Willow. Because it is okay to move one. And Tara would have wanted Willow to move on.

[@ronfehr7899]

I totally understand your reaction to Kennedy coming on to Willow. I found it hard to like her. I didn't really want Willow to move on from Tara either.

[@moramorandobianchi7093]

No, your opinion is the popular one. Here the Kennedy defendors are very few, but strong! Lol (I particularly never liked Tara, so the transition for me was easy) Also yes, they told Anthony to not touch anything during all these episodes, there's one reactor that noticed it and was freaking out so they kept checking every scene. Such dedication for something thats solved so fast but thats why i love this show

[@Heldemon]

I remember reading someone say that there was like one scene that he did touch something, but I've never gone back to check personally.

[@TheOnlyOneSpeedfreak]

"Its not Spikes time" Tells Robin Spike killed his mother, sending him on a revenge trip to kill Spike The first really is a very stupid villain, like stupidly dumb.

[@SombraLuminosa]

Good reaction

[@trevor3013]

Giles argument against the chip removal is so stupid. On top of already telling buffy he trusts her judgment earlier.. the chip doesnt even function when the first takes control of Spike. Meanwhile Spike is basically human with his soul so he wouldn't go around killing with or without the chip. The firsts influence makes his argument pointless I honestly hate what they wrote for giles this season. Originally Anthony asked to make giles evil for season 7 but they didn't want to. I feel that was a good idea and would have been great to see on screen.

[@la_beatrice]

There has been nothing objectively wrong really with Kennedy since we met her, but yeah, I can't stand her. She's a rich brat who pouts and does babyvoice to get her way. Also, while she seems to be the strongest and most supportive potential, even when she's telling the other girls the facts and being there for the scoobies, there's a misplaced playfuness in her tone and posture that feels very typical for those who had the world handed to them in a silver platter. So, am I prejudiced against her just because she's rich? Not exactly. It's more like her wealth gave her an annoying personality. But she's clearly a very decent person. It's a harsh fact of life - good people can be obnoxiously annoying, too 😂

[@Nicamon]

"The Killer in Me"AKA the only ep of the 7th season I *really* like! ❤🖤 #Justice4Kennedy 03:40 - 04:08 Oh,c'mooon!!They're cute!!:'-3 Shipping Willow&Kennedy in the present doesn't mean forgetting Tara,it only means allowing Willow to move on from her death(which she deserves). I agree that it's too soon and that their ship is no match for the one we saw with Willow&Oz or Willow&Tara or even Willow&Xander but that's S7's fault,not Kennedy's because in S7 there are too many new characters and too little time to properly develop them. They would have needed _at least_ 2 seasons if not 3 to have a proper development as a couple,but they didn't so we have to settle with what we got. This *in no way* justifies all the Kennedy Hatred I've seen in all these years.😡 #Justice4Kennedy ❤🖤 04:15 - 04:19 So true.😒(Sorry,I will never forgive the show for turning Spike into a main character the way it did.) 05:15 - 05:22 *THIS FUCKING THIS!!!!* 😍😍😍😍😍❤❤❤❤❤ 05:24 - 05:33 I agree about the Faith's part 🤎 I'm not sure about the Cordelia part...😅 11:42 - 11:54 Oh,c'mooon,SKIP!!! I don't care about this!! I wanna see Willow&Kennedy!!X-O 12:12 - 12:43 "We all feel each other!!" 😂😂😂😂😂 "You think I'm evil if I bring a group of girls on a camping trip and _don't_ touch them?🤨"🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣Oh,Joss,you naughty bastard!! 13:33 - 13:45 🤣🤣🤣💚 And I love that _right after this_ KZbin got me the trailer of"Red One"!🤣🎅 15:17 - 15:21 As much as I hate Amy(and I do!Ooohhh,trust me,I DO!🤬💢)she's not wrong here,I must admit. We _all_ fall for Willow despite how many bullshits she piles together because of Alyson Hannigan's damn cute face!:-3 ❤❤❤❤❤ 15:56 - 17:56 OMG,this scene...!! I don't care how much people hate Kennedy,THIS SCENE is beyond any of that!!!😭😭😭😭😭💔💔💔💔💔 28:56 - 28:58 Slayer. The term you're looking for is"son of a Slayer".😉

[@MarkGunnells]

I don't mean this as an insult but it's toxic the was we judge others for how fast or slow they move on after someone dies. I know someone whose husband died and she had met someone within a few months and people were so nasty to her and it was appalling.

[@invadertifxiii]

i actually just saw a tourism video about english speakers talking louder to non english speakers, in that case can i ask idk if i did already but whats your accent?

[@dontgiveinfo]

Where are you going? it's like a rush to leave 😪

[@EmmyMehring]

day 3 asking for outer banks

[@jennarobinson4136]

Totally agree with you about Kennedy. It feels too soon for me, and something is off/not likeable about her character. But at the same time, I think the emotional payoff of the episode and Alyson's acting pulls off the storyline so well that I don't begrudge it too much.

[@christianschoff2490]

You're not the only person who didn't like Willow and Kennedy.

[@valinny8571]

I never liked Kennedy and never wanted her to hook up with K. I found myself yelling at the tv many times, STFU kennedy. She was the anti Oz and Tara. I am right there with you Sofie...too pushy. And I hate the ending, a kiss brings Willow back? blah. Thank you Sophie for NEVER forgetting Tara. And why aren't there any pics of Tara/Willow in Will's room? I have a dog that died in 1997 and I have pics of her in my room!

[@debbielough7754]

The picture thing is reasonable - some people remove the pictures of a loved one when they lose them, at least for a while, because it's too painful.

[@RobertJazo]

Of course the real reason there aren't any pictures of Tara in Willow's room is they would potentially have to pay Amber Benson for the use of her image.

[@Nicamon]

I never forgot Tara,but I never hated Kennedy. If I'm being honest,I never forgot Oz either!Remember the thing Willow said about her being an old lady with blue hair and meeting him again in the future?I still choose to believe that's canon,now that Tara is gone(I don't count the comics because I've never read them).Shipping Willow&Kennedy in the present doesn't mean forgetting Tara,it only means allowing Willow to move on from her death(which she deserves). I agree their ship is no match for the one we saw with Willow&Oz or Willow&Tara or even Willow&Xander but that's S7's fault,not Kennedy's because in S7 there are too many new characters and too little time to properly develop them. They would have needed _at least_ 2 seasons if not 3 to have a proper development as a couple,but they didn't so we have to settle with what we got. This *in no way* justifies all the Kennedy Hatred I've seen in all these years.😡 #Justice4Kennedy ❤🖤

[@monicaking3977]

I don't think you dislike Kennedy. I think you dislike her being paired with Willow. Because you said before in a previous episode that you did like Kennedy, but now suddenly you don't? No. I think people forget that you can like a character without liking a pairing. For instance, I love Fred and Gunn, but I hate them as a couple to the extent I skip the scenes where it's just the two of them together. I love Connor and Cordelia, but I don't like the pairing. You can like Kennedy without wanting her with Willow. And I feel like all the "Kennedy haters", not just you, need to keep that in mind.

[@migmit]

Willow moves negatively with respect to romantic interests. Oz was fantastic. Tara was bland and uninteresting. But Kennedy is outright annoying.

[@jeffmartin5504]

Xander is actually quite lieable in this season,

[@evatesche]

Take most of the annoying potentials away and this would have been a great season.

[@alooncnej4696]

I don't really like the photography this season it is weird. Magnificient music and episode about Willow's character

[@gizemkaraca5by5]

Kennedy and Riley will always be the nonevil characters I absolutely HATE

[@OzeroCa]

Kennedy took a lot of flack from the fandom. Understandable, but it was a bit much. We all just want Tara back. Not Kennedy’s fault. But it would have made a lot of sense if Willow feathered the brakes more than she did. Aw well.

[@alexie5201]

Personally, I could care less about their relationship by the end of the season (even though I was opposed to it at first). I just didn't like how annoying Kennedy became as a character after she started dating Willow.

[@OzeroCa]

@@alexie5201 yeah, a bit of a misstep from a writing perspective. An understandable one, well intended, but… with another season or two, it could have been done a ton better.

[@Brilleetoile]

As usual your instinct is top tier. I hate Kennedy with every inch of my body. She IS entitled and a pushover. And I always said the same thing as you, it's too early for Willow to get into a new relationship. Also nobody would ever be on Tara's level

[@Spalove]

I think Buffy has been in love with Spike since season 5.

[@ShieldVids]

You mean when he was stalking her or taking pictures or having sex with a robot version of her?

[@philamb2001]

I agree.

[@Nicamon]

​@@philamb2001 I agree with Buffy when she says:"I have feelings for you. I do. But it's not love. I could never _trust you_ enough for it to be love."People want to ship Spuffy so bad that they can't accept that feelings may be more complicated than that and that Buffy could feel some sort of _attraction_ towards Spike without it _ever_ becoming proper _love._ P.S. For the record...I don't think she ever truly loved Riley either since they were never"on the same page"as individuals and as a couple. She just loved the idea of having a"normal", "non problematic"boyfriend. ​@user-hc4bg6vj3q I think she used that expression because it's the most simple one. She could have said:"Why does everybody in this house think I still have feelings for Spike?" but it probably wouldn't have sounded right. I don't know.Sometimes we use words without over-analyzing their exact meanings,sometimes we say something and we interpret one shade of what we're saying in a way and whoever is listening interprets it in another way...it's complicated. Or you could be right and she could have been really in love with Spike at some point(not sure when).🤷‍♂Personally I never saw Buffy _acting_ like she was *in love* with Spike.Attracted,yes,trusting him,surely,be fond of him,also...in love?I don't think so.

[@SamuelFeutchine]

@@Nicamon She literally said "still in love", that's mean she start falling in love with him somewhere before this episode

[@Nicamon]

@@SamuelFeutchine KZbin is deleting my reply.

[@ferrisulf]

I agree. Too soon for Willow to be with someone else. Especially when that someone else is Kennedy. I can't stand the character, even if she wasn't being paired up with Willow.

[@Nicamon]

I disagree about the"expecially if it's Kennedy"part.I never understood the Kennedy Hatred. I like her as a character. #Justice4Kennedy 🖤 I agree about the"too soon"part but that's not Kennedy's fault:it's S7's. Too many new characters and too little time to develop them. No wonder people never got fond of Kennedy as much as they did with Oz or Tara.

[@ferrisulf]

@@Nicamon While I dislike Kennedy's character increasingly the further the season goes on, I do agree with you that there were way too many characters in too short a period of time. Not sure the best way to have handled it better, but it was a weak point of the season.

[@divinelangene6813]

When Tara and Willow got together i didnt think Willow was gay, i just thought Tara was so special😭😭I miss her❤❤❤

[@Nicamon]

Yeah,when Willow told Anya:"Hello...gay now."I was like:"You are?🤨Isn't Tara the only girl you have ever loved?You were 100% straight before her!"

[@divinelangene6813]

@@Nicamon same thoughts, if ever a woman was worthy of love its Tara

[@moramorandobianchi7093]

For some people it takes one person to help them figure out their sexuality, and compulsive heterosexuality exists. The debate about Willows orientation is still big in the Fandom lol, but we at least agree she is definitely queer Edit: stupid autocorrect

[@divinelangene6813]

@@moramorandobianchi7093 well said

[@polux72david96]

don't forget that buffy never really loved spike as she loves angel

[@SamuelFeutchine]

I would say she loved them equally girl

[@RLucas3000]

Kennedy is the only Buffyverse good guy I’ve ever not liked. I liked Riley and Xander’s son. But Kennedy. I don’t hate her any more.

[@Logan_Baron]

Riley and Xander had a son?

[@divinelangene6813]

@@Logan_Baron 😂😂😂😂