Buick Grand National facts

Buick Grand National.
Concept, development and build timeline with facts you may not have heard before. This is a supplement from the Black Air documentary.

[@ct87gn25]

This video explains pretty much anything you may have ever wanted to know about the legendary Turbo Buick's, and it's humble beginnings. This video is GOLD. It comes from one of the guys who was there, who knew and worked alongside people working on the Turbo Regal 'project'. It's history. History on one of the greatest cars to come out of GM and in particular, the now closed down G Body plant in Pontiac MI. Thanks for sharing it!!!

[@sinusbradycardia]

I'm a proud owner of an 86 GN. Thanks for taking the time to upload this. I will never get rid of my GN.

[@raptor5581]

sinusbradycardia The next time you you hear an '87 owner put down your '86 because he or she has "10 more horsepower" you can now inform them of there mistake.

[@sinusbradycardia]

LOL. Now it's putting about 500 ponies down. I'm planning on upgrading my driveshaft and axles, afraid when I launch it at the track my driveshaft and/or axles will break. I'm also planning on building a 3800 series II powered GN or T. The 3800 series 2/3 blocks are stouter than the 109 block and can reliably make 800rwhp with the stock crank and forged pistons and rods. Several guys are running the 3800 blocks and are able to produce more power with less boost and stock heads. I'm told the 3800 series 2/3 blocks were closer in design to BMS stage blocks, with a shorter deck.

[@anngarretson8191]

Hey +sinusbradycardia

[@anngarretson8191]

+Misty Workman what's up with misty I want to know

[@anngarretson8191]

+sinusbradycardia what do u mean by that

[@VenomGT87]

I love these type of stories and facts!

[@howabouthetruth2157]

It blows my mind that this video ( as of right now: July 30, 2020 ) has only 16,073 views, only 217 "likes" and only 46 comments/responses. I know darn good & well that the turbo Buicks are far more popular than that. To tell ya the truth, I believe just because this video is somewhat of a seminar, with no video footage and not made like "a movie", is why hardly anyone has watched it. It's so sad to know that people are that lazy..........when there's a ton of great information to be learned from this video.

[@markneal3540]

Agreed

[@88_TROUBLE_88]

I'm watching it now.. Biggest fan of the GNX since I was a kid and have drooled over the thought of just merely getting one of my own for the past couple and a half decades straight, and never would have chosen another vehicle if a genie popped out of a lamp, so that's pretty much obsession I think.. The turbo badge on the headrests, floor mats, under the hood and the wheels center cap is the coolest shit I can imagine. The entire idea of this vehicle especially the GNX, is the most badass shit I have ever been made aware of as far as automobiles are concerned. So, yeah I am watching this to the end and glad for every piece of info this man has to offer, which I gather is quite a wealth..

[@howabouthetruth2157]

@@88_TROUBLE_88 A buddy/co-worker had a GNX back in the early 90's. He bought that car brand new. I used to car-pool with him to a big job sight we both worked on for a year. Damn that car was quick. 2 yrs later, the car was still in perfect shape, and he did the dumbest thing: he traded in his GNX as "a down payment" on a piece of shit new Dodge Ram PU truck. Everyone, including me, told him what an idiot he was. He didn't even own that truck for 6 yrs. As for the GNX.........You can bet he's crying now, and he'll NEVER live that one down.

[@88_TROUBLE_88]

@@howabouthetruth2157 God what a gut wrenching story and I hate it for that guy =/

[@howabouthetruth2157]

@@88_TROUBLE_88 I could've strangled him. Seriously.........his GNX was still in beautiful shape and still ran great when he pulled that stupid shit. He didn't even tell any of us that he was planning on doing such a stupid thing. He just shows up with a new silver Dodge Ram, the very first year they re-introduced "the Hemi" in their PU trucks. I doubt that truck is even still on the road today.........and look what his GNX would be worth NOW. Pisses me off just thinking about it to this very day.

[@dew2667]

As a historical side note, 87 GN bodies from the firewall to taillights were assembled in Flint Mi. and transported on their paint dollys inside enclosed double decker semi trailers to the old Plant 8 Pontiac assembly plant in Pontiac Mi. Thats why on window stickers its stated final assy. point, Pontiac Mi.

[@tonecapone1]

Very informative straight from the source involved with the development of the 86 intercooled turbos. The 1986 was and is the pioneer. Only 5,512 produced. The 1986 GN and 1987 GNX are the Grand Nationals to have from a car collectors stand point. The 86 was the one who put the GN truly on the map and the GNX kept the car there till the end. Magical car period "Buick Grand National" ICONIC!

[@TheMethod44]

Big Tone which is worth more 86 or 87. I was always told the 87 will always be higher in price.

[@connormccoy3548]

Actually, from a collector's standpoint (we currently have 8 in our fleet, along with '89 Turbo TA #999 & I've owned 200+ turbo Regals since 1984), the '87 GN & the X are the ones to have. '86 GN's will never bring the $$ the '87's do, whether anyone believes it or not. Buy a TR, join the club, & you'll learn what I said is fact.

[@HVACENGINEER94]

Question is, how many were manufactured in 86, how many T- Tops were made in that model that year? Now, compare that to 87. YOU sir are correct. The 86 is rarer and therefore not as common place as the abundant 87. The only thing 87 has it the Dec 11 end of the road history and a few more ponies which by today is pointless with our technology.

[@ct87gn25]

@@connormccoy3548 100% CORRECT. Sure the 86's have a lower production number, BUT the 87 was the last year of production. And THAT'S what stands out to most. I've owned a 85, 86 and 87 GN. Still own the 87 GN and always will. This is one of those times when "rarer" doesn't mean more valuable.........

[@kevinroark4346]

@@TheMethod44 the 1987 because it was last year for the Grand National but the 87 GNX is worth the most and it stands for experimental they only made 547 of them. Also in 1982 there was only like 35 made with turbo and the rest were naturally aspirated what a whopping 140 horsepower so the 35 that had turbo in 1982 they are very collectible what few haven't been destroyed .

[@SuperNovadose]

Thanks for the video 👍👍

[@salmonaco007]

We need a black air part 2 movie

[@fwh79FOXR6]

Sam Mco: Black Air was an awesome documentary on the GN. I loved it! A part 2 would be well received.

[@ct87gn25]

Black Air II would be an awesome project and documentary. Let's all hope it happens.......some day!

[@LR-my2di]

This video left a LOT on the table with some rather boring sections. Such folks as Red Armstrong, Kenny Duttweiler and Rich Lasseter should have been interviewed. I can't believe they were not included. Also, more racing action for sure from the Buick GS Nats. When I heard the title, I thought of GN's pulling the wheels! I was disappointed.

[@MrBlackbutang]

Really nice when can get real news! First hand knowledge ! Thanks spooln272

[@GLFGNX]

Great video!! from an .GNX owner

[@venom-dq4rb]

I’ve had u corvettes, 2 mustangs, 2 Camaros and am on my second Viper, I don’t know why I’ve never owned a GN but I’m making that happen by next year, I’m looking for one that has already been done , a hardtop that runs high 9’s to low 10’s consistent with cold a/c will be the one I end up with.

[@CrazyTacky]

Thanks for the upload, this is a great video.

[@ct87gn25]

One of the BEST on You Tube and it's wicked cool to here the stories on just exactly why the 86-87's are as fast as they are. The story on the T-Type/wagon race is hilarious!!!

[@micthegreasemonkey2918]

Luv 2 hear the stories bout the sc 3800

[@t.l.robinson2162]

Positraction was an option.

[@t.l.robinson2162]

And the Corvette 5.7 was still not enough.

[@cliftonstringer903]

GM// BRING BACK ON A LIMITED MAKE 2500 2019 GRAND NATIONALS 455HP AND MAKE 500 GNX 550HP SELL FOR 75K AND 85 FOR GNX

[@uptownsamcv]

AWESOME!! This should be interesting.....

[@learysinsight5796]

more stories please!

[@chrisreynolds2410]

I was driving down the street minding my biz and look to the right and seen a shiny GN about to go into a trailer…..so I pull in and poke around…..it was a GNX in the process of being sold for $130k or some wild number it had never even been registered and has less than 500 miles.

[@joemcmahon8103]

How was this guy not in Black Air?

[@chasr7860]

Great cars, but when selling on a Buick dealers lot back then NONE of us wanted to hear the customers were there to see them or the Riv or the Road Master. Everyone wanted to test drive them, but the prices were too high for most. Plus the GN's were limited 3-4 per dealer I think it was one year at least they were and they wanted sticker price plus spray can dealer add-ons. They could not test drive the GN unless they seemed very serious to the boss and everyone thought it would look like a Trans AM on the inside for some reason. I think the GN were limited because of the few we sold they were always back for warranty work, because of the way people drove them.

[@ct87gn25]

The biggest problem when these cars were new was new owners thinking they could turn up the boost and still run low octane gas. It's why so many of them were in for head gasket work.

[@RockandrollNegro]

Our problem was always with transmissions. One GN owner came in three times in three years for transmission replacement. When it went out of warranty, he sold it because he didn't want to spend $1800 every year on a new transmission, which in today's money would be like $5,000.

[@jdgreen214]

@@RockandrollNegro One of the first things I was told before my rebuild. My builder said we gotta build up that transmission because when you increase horsepower that stock transmission won't last for a week.

[@peterhart9631]

Everyone i knew seemed to know about the FBI connection. But the rumor was that Buick built them specifically for the FBI. Which turns out to be false. FBI tested, liked, bought. EOS.

[@WPGinterceptor460Interceptor]

I have some pics

[@ct87gn25]

@@WPGinterceptor460Interceptor The bigger story is states and some local law enforcement agencies who purchased them for speed enforcement. I know the state of Connecticut is well documented for purchasing Turbo Buick's (both Turbo T's and GN's) for use with the state police. I owned an ex CT state police 87 Turbo Regal in dark garnet red that was sold through the state of CT surplus auto auction back in the day........

[@robvoyles]

Ok people,First, these cars completely stock right off the showroom floor only run in the high 15's in a 1/4 mile. The ones on KZbin running 9's and 10's have had thousands of dollars in upgrades to run those times. :) Sorry.

[@RockandrollNegro]

The 1984 GN ran a 14 second 1/4 mile, and the 0-60 was 4.9 seconds. That made it the fastest production Buick ever made at that point, faster than the 455 GS. If your imaginary uncle owned all these imaginary Buicks and thought his imaginary GN was slower than his imaginary GS, then either he or you is an imaginative idiot.

[@rudygeorgiamulesandcountry1594]

You mentioned the V6 being repurchased from Kaiser. I understood the V6 was a shortened version of the Buick 215 C.I.D. 215 HP , Quadrajet -V8. Seeing you were in on the ground floor, do you know anything about that? You're very knowledgable.

[@RockandrollNegro]

I was the Flint line lead on the first redesign of the 1978 3.8L and can answer your question. The Buick Fireball 198 V6 was based on the DualJet 215, not the QuadraJet 215 (the QuadraJet version had a different offset and a high compression Buick head with smaller valves; the DualJet had a lower compression Oldsmobile head with bigger valves.) The Buick 215 was built for speed and performance, while the Oldsmobile 215 was built for fuel economy and durability. The Buick V6 was thus derived from the 2bbl Oldsmobile version of the 215, as economy and reliability were the impetus for creating a V6 in the first place. The Fireball 198 V6 was an almost exact copy of the Olds DualJet 215 V8, minus two cylinders and substituting aluminum for cast iron. The V6 weighed about 40lbs more than the V8. The 198 V6 was later bored and stroked to 225, which is what was sold to Kaiser-Jeep in 1967, where it became the Dauntless V6. Kaiser then sold the Dauntless tooling back to GM in 1974. When GM got it back, they bored it out further to match the GM 307/350 Smallblock bore of 3.8" diameter, which increased the displacement to 231ci. The 231 was used for three model years, 1975-77, and was redesigned for the 1978 model year. We put a steel exhaust, composite manifold and bigger valves from the 455ci Olds Rocket V8 on the 231, which boosted horsepower by 13%. This 1978 revision of the 231 was the first time it was marketed as the 3.8 Litre Buick V6, but officially it was known as the LD5. The LN7, LK9, LG2, and LG3 were all variants and revisions of the LD5. The LN3 was a major redesign in 1988, and we began calling it the 3800 as opposed to "3.8 Litre." In 1991, the 3800 LN3 was completely redesigned from the block up, and we called this the Series One 3800. Series 2 came in 1995 Series 3 in 2004, and the last Series 3 came off the line in 2008. GM replaced the 3800 with the inferior 3500. If you're in the market for an old 3.8 equipped car, the Series 2 L67 engines were nearly perfectly designed and built, and would be my recommendation.

[@rudygeorgiamulesandcountry1594]

@@RockandrollNegro : Thankyou ! My first car was a 1963 Buick skylark convertible (white/red/white interior) with 215 C.I.D , V - 8 ,the 14:1 compression and the quadrajet .

[@bradpittman5075]

Vehicle emissions are a joke. They box in designers. They don’t give you an emissions target and say hit it. It’s you have to have a cat dpf etc egr. All things that decrease engine efficiency. If they were serious they would be focusing on the fuel particularly e85 and bio instead of poor quality gasoline. Properly tuned engines are always more efficient per fuel used. On a modern tier 4 diesel, I work at cat on heavy equipment, if you pull a head you cannot tell the difference between the intake and exhaust bc if the soot build up. It devastates the engine and they create so much heat that is wasted that it drastically reduces engine life and the heat is just wasted. Why is it that every time a camless valve train is designed it catches some wind and then you never hear about it? What about the systems that run hydrogen pulled from water? Epa is a scam and a racquet just like the crappy fuel etc. they don’t care about emission only money. In 2018 the trucks get the same fuel mileage as in the 60s. I had a 1966 f100 352 two barrel two wheel drive. Got 22 mpg. 2017 ecoboost f150 average 18 mpg. It’s a joke! Let the companies and manufactures be free and stop regulating them to death and true and pure innovation will happen period.

[@bradpittman5075]

Co2 is planet food period. I understand wanting to reduce the NOx particulate for diesels but biofuels drastically reduce this. The fuel lines and seals on components aren’t designed for this fuel in the long term. I understand that but they are available. On gas cars, e85 is a wonder. Even e40. If that was at the pump we could have. 12:1 turbo engines that are extremely efficient. I realize you use nearly twice as much e85 as gas but if it was mass produced the cost would even be cheaper. Again they don’t want to solve problems. They want money. We haven’t even needed gas or bio fueled engines since the 50s anyways.

[@jackmacer718]

10 seconds into the "facts" of the Grand National & this dude's already incorrect. 78 was the first year for the T-Type Regal. 82 being the first year for the Grand National.

[@connormccoy3548]

1982 1/2 actually, since it was a mid year release.

[@JT-sl3ui]

It's called a mistake. This guy forgot more about the Grand National than anyone on this message board will ever know about the Grand National.

[@howabouthetruth2157]

@TheGlobalishjack Macer only spewed that out of his mouth because he has the luxury of hiding in cyber space like a damned coward. The man flat out stated: "Guys, my memory on some of this stuff is a bit hazy at times, so"........and he also looked to his partner multiple times at the back of the room ( his partner can't be seen on camera ) and said: "Correct me if I'm wrong, you may know as much or more than I do about that"......but jack Macer would rather pretend he didn't hear those statements so he can behave like a total JACK ASS........pun intended.

[@howabouthetruth2157]

The man flat out stated: "Guys, my memory can be sometimes hazy about some of this stuff".....end quote. He also said to his partner at the back of the room ( his partner can't be seen on camera ) MULTIPLE times: "Correct me if I'm wrong, you may know more about that than I do"..........yet you choose to ignore those statements, just so you can piss, whine, and moan like some bitch on the rag........and even then, only because you can hide in cyber space like a damned coward. Miserable freaks like you pollute & poison youtube. Don't go take it out on your wife or kids either, you freak.

[@robvoyles]

Ok,First, these cars completely stock right off the showroom floor only run in the high 15's in a 1/4 mile. The ones on KZbin running 9's and 10's have had thousands of dollars in upgrades to run those times. :) Sorry.