Building a 4x5 Digital Scanner Back for Large Format Cameras

[@devtank]

OMFG I did this in college in the 90's, I used a Kodak scanner and had an old 8x10 camera. Digital monster! 90minute exposure! Remember about 5 years ago, some guy built his own scanning camera and he did temporal images in the NYC metro... so freaking cool. As far as avoiding light scatter from the ground glass, it is actually possible -not convenient, but possible. Its a complex process of using liquid between the scanning head and the ground glass. I've tried it with isopropyl 99%, and switched later to Glycerin, its laborious but the end results are literally off the charts.

[@FotodioxInc]

Nice! That whole liquid scanning process sounds a bit above our paygrade though :)

[@wedding_photography]

I did something similar, but with 8x10". I tried to make a ground glass myself, but got the results similar to yours - huge grain, scratches. Then I found that LCD screen assemblies have these matte sheets in them, which are very fine grained. Just get any junky laptop or an old display, split the LCD assembly layers, you should find a sheet.

[@FotodioxInc]

So you use that as the ground glass instead?

[@wedding_photography]

@@FotodioxInc Yes. Much better results.

[@FotodioxInc]

@@wedding_photography Great! Thanks for the tip!

[@user-yv2cz8oj1k]

And it sounds like it's replaceable and reversible. I was about to ask if some other sheet could be used, thanks for getting an answer in before I even got the question in. 😀

[@skeatyu1281]

I’m going to try using Matt iPad screen protector (film sticker) instead of graining the glass. It might work. And also, cut off the led of scanning head would increase more light absorbing from in coming image.

[@spydersweb2]

It's reassuring that the Fotodiox people are actually photo nerds like us! this is way cool!

[@FotodioxInc]

:)

[@TimSheehan]

The scanner has a monochrome sensor and relies upon strobing its red, green, and blue LEDs which illuminate the document being scanned (normally) one colour at a time. Since the illumination is coming from the outside world and is a full spectrum all the time no matter what colour the scanner powers on its LEDs, it sees all channels as the same intensity which gives a greyscale image. Only way around this is taking 3 separate scans with colour filters infront of the lens and merging them in post. I do wonder if you could improve the image quality by disabling those LEDs though - they must be shining off the ground glass and reducing your contrast!

[@FotodioxInc]

Most likely. I'm no technician, but I may look into it.

[@davewalker6760]

You could use red, green and blue filters over the lens and build a tri-chrome image in digital. You'd want to disable the light inside the scanner, too, as it'll be illuminating the back of the ground glass and adding noise.

[@unbroken1010]

You definitely bored.😝but smart

[@wayneyoung9612]

I was about to leave a comment saying the exact same thing! Scanners use a monochrome sensor with sequential tri-colour illumination.

[@lihtan]

You might want to consider using a scanner that uses a CCD image sensor. Most inexpensive scanners these days use a CIS (Compact Image Sensor), which uses a monochrome sensor, where the material illuminated by an RGB LED array. The CCD is a color sensor that is illuminated by a white fluorescent lamp (many of the newer ones now use RGB LEDs). The CCD scannerss have better image quality and depth of field. I once had an old-school HP Scanjet 4P full size flatbed scanner, with a CCD sensor and SCSI port. It would make glorious scans with my Mac. It would sharply capture things that were an inch or two away from the surface of the glass. The weight and power consumption (AC powered!) would make it prohibitive for portable use, but it could make for compelling use in a studio.

[@numaihristos4432]

Even though I won't be trying this by any chance, I appreciate how interesting and entertaining your presentation is to learn.

[@FotodioxInc]

Thanks for the kind words!

[@Veptis]

There are a few options for large format digital backs. And scanning backs (or sometimes called line scanners, push broom sensors) might be the cheapest option - yet I never realized how cheap and simple (especially portable) it could be. Having a working 3D printer makes all those adapters easy

[@FotodioxInc]

Yeah, there are tons of pro options out there. This was more of a fun DIY/lo-fi hack :)

[@allenjcarter]

The Better Light 4x5 scanning back was introduced in the early '90s, created 50 megapixel 100MB files. A lot to handle with a 1993 computer... They got even better over time. Was really incredible. They were marketed by Dicomed for a while, then back to the Better Light brand. This is very much a poor man's example of the same type of thing. A moving sensor back.

[@FotodioxInc]

Nice! We'll have to look into that

[@rockyBalboa6699]

This is an interesting concept for creative photography and it's also possible to create high quality color pictures using certain scanners with CCD sensors. Also you don't need to grind the glass, instead use an acrylic sheet.

[@FotodioxInc]

In the future I'll try it that way :)

[@TakoFoodtruck]

Look up how to cut geologic thin sections if you're wanting a better result in your ground glass. Use finer grit and less of it at a time, rinse often, and cut with firm but even pressure in constantly changing figure-8 patterns to prevent grooving and whorl patterning in the glass. I typically would hold my slides with leather gloves (to prevent cuts in fingers) and would take a few minutes to remove a layer of rock (in this case, you're trying to rough the glass.) Rinse and dry often to find the areas you want to work on more.

[@greysuit17]

Most creative camera setup! Really cool idea.

[@wds555]

A less "destructive" way for your scanner glass is using paraffin wax, putting between another peace of glass, melting with hair dryer or heat gun until the glass seats over with a very thin layer of wax and an even opaque surface.

[@FotodioxInc]

Good idea! Thanks

[@tomkent4656]

Or maybe replace the glass with a piece of frosted glass.

[@erikstenbakken1488]

Super fun idea. And great tutorial as to how it's done too.

[@ZakWilson]

Try rechargeable AAs. You should get more shots per charge, and unlike disposables, you can use them again afterward.

[@FotodioxInc]

Smart! Actually, as long as it's not freezing out, we've found that the batteries last a lot longer.

[@georgesmith4509]

Great presentation. None of the usual 3 minute pre- ample in a 4 minute video, and your images are clear and STEADY. I first started in photography when I was about 6yrs old and at 80yrs I still have every gauge film camera from 16 mm sub miniature to 4x5 monorail, most now lay idle because of lack of film stock or the cost of digitisation. You have just just shown me a way back. THANKYOU! " the 4x5. loves you " I'll most certainly check the other sites One tip If I may make your abrasive into a paste before spreading and grinding it lowers damage risk and gives better control of the mixture

[@FotodioxInc]

Hi George, thanks for the tip and the kind words! We love film photography here at Fotodiox just as much as digital, and fusing the two has always been our passion. Have a great week!

[@JacobCarlson]

LOVE the ingenuity! Thanks for sharing

[@anxiousappliance]

One day the tech will be suitably advanced that perfect Diana emulation is achieved! One can dream ....

[@FotodioxInc]

If they only made a medium format 1:1 sized scanner :D

[@Archetypeification]

Lost continent of Mu?! Good choice friend. Way to represent ancient and modern together ;) Love this tutorial and all of the inspiration that it stirs up.

[@SeanAndersonMedia]

In retrospect, I had just picked that book up. After reading it for a bit, I realized how pointless it was and donated it back to the used bookstore :) I'm a big fan of mythology and folklore, but I prefer stuff that's from ancient cultures and not made up by one guy. Thanks for the kind words!

[@FotodioxInc]

Sean collects some weird books

[@joecal2360]

Frickin' cool bro, that rail rig is killer!

[@jamesdurand549]

nice work! I did the same thing 15 years ago with a canon like scanner which could be powered from usb rather than mains power, but still needed a laptop. I didn't use ground glass though, removed the "sensor" from beneath the plastic array of pinhole lenses, and taped it to the top of the assembly and removed the glass altogether, dust created lines though and changing resolution changed the exposure, which was a pain. Also there is no Infrared cut filter, and as IR focusses in a different place all images were a bit soft

[@FotodioxInc]

Cool! Sounds like a great build!

[@jamesbarnes3063]

Just got through making my own with an old speed graphic, grainy but I like it

[@FotodioxInc]

That's great!

[@ScottJWaldron]

Really interesting DIY, nice job!

[@pottiezluc8693]

Thanks a lot, for all ! - Luc, from Brussels...

[@FotodioxInc]

Have fun!

[@usameari]

maybe this is a begining point of an evolution of capturing images. dslr to mirrorless, than mirrorless to sencorless.. great idea.

[@FotodioxInc]

:)

[@SidneyPratt]

I think this would be a really cool project for you to take on. There are 3 different GX380 models to choose from and they are really cheep and the lenses are the best glass ever made with all the right coatings to correct for absorption, not the right word but I don't know what it would be in English, However it makes the wavelengths strike the film plane at the same time making all three wavelengths, R,G and B in focus. Let me know what you think. I no longer have the space or energy to accomplish this on my own. Cheers, Sid.

[@FotodioxInc]

Thanks for the suggestion! So, do you mean attaching this scanner to the back of that camera model?

[@alb1864]

brilliant Idia. i wonder what if not to use any of Ground Glass. just Let the flat bed regiester the light directly

[@FotodioxInc]

I tried that. What I got was a keyhole effect. Only the very center of the image circle of the lens was exposed, while everything else faded to black.

[@Moontrak]

Thx for idea👍 print out one image to transparent negativ and make it one more step analog with gum printing 👍

[@FotodioxInc]

Cool idea!

[@miam1074]

Images look great 👍

[@FotodioxInc]

Thanks!

[@kevin-parratt-artist]

You're the man, Sean. 👌

[@FotodioxInc]

:)

[@SidneyPratt]

Hay Sean, thanks.

[@SeanAndersonMedia]

Glad you liked it!

[@leonaimene7283]

im pretty sure you can put wax papper bitween the glass and the furnel so you get much clean and colored pictures (without grinding the glass)

[@FotodioxInc]

Great idea! Will try that with our next build

Nice project

[@oneeyedphotographer]

Wet and dry sandpaper should work. Make a few glass plates for different grain sizes.

[@FotodioxInc]

Good idea! Then you could pick what kind of grain you wanted.

[@southill]

Whet and dry sandpaper does NOT work. I tried this 😭💀

[@matthiaspfau7410]

Awesome!

[@FotodioxInc]

Thanks!

[@foveonyc]

Really cool work!

[@FotodioxInc]

Thanks!

[@bmpom6243]

Interesting setup, and it's actually a slit scan too, how cool is that?

[@dj1NM3]

This scanner probably flashes a strip of red, green and blue LEDs to illuminate an image for three exposures for each line of pixels, so with the light only coming from the ground-glass (You did remember to disable the LEDs, right?), each colour sensor is getting the same light value and thus returning a monochrome image.

[@FotodioxInc]

What, do you think I'm a technical person or something? :) I didn't disable anything, wouldn't know how :) The scanner is working exactly like it did before, I just created a frosted material in front of it for a lens to cast an image circle to be scanned. That's an interesting idea though. Maybe disabling the leds would help?

[@famitory]

i wonder if you could make a more advanced version by having the same sort of XY gantry drag a full sized camera sensor around the scanning area and then stitch the image in post

[@FotodioxInc]

That could be cool! Unfortunately I'm not technically savvy enough to do that :)

[@nicholasmikalajpackajeu3250]

I would join as backer of a (reasonably priced) Kickstarter project to make an industrially-made product based on this principle, preferably for 5x7" cameras.

[@FotodioxInc]

That would be incredible! The tricky part would be making a scanner from scratch rather than sourcing an existing one.

[@gordoncouger9648]

Neat!! If you are only going to use the lens in the shutter, why not build your own camera in the scanner that takes the lens boards from the cameras you already own so it focuses at infinity. It would only be a box on the scanner of the correct length with a lensboard and a wire frame viewfinder. A good grade of cardboard and a coathanger would turn the trick.

[@FotodioxInc]

Fore sure! One of the reasons I used this camera is because the lens requires a focusing helicoid to adjust focus, but with a large format lens that doesn't need this, a simple box design would work great. I actually changed this design to work with another large format camera that does give me infinity focus. At some point I'll make an update video about it.

[@MelanieKing]

This is super cool!

[@FotodioxInc]

Thanks!

[@anaraluca1181]

Would make more sense to grind the side of the glass oriented to the sensor row.

[@FotodioxInc]

Nit so sure though, since the sensor is designed to focus on a document placed above the glass

[@sevin4552]

is there any similar product like the flip-pal scanner? I tried to make my own one and found out the production of flip-pal is discontinued. neither eBay or amazon still sell it. does anyone knows where can I find one of this small size flatbed scanner? thanks

[@FotodioxInc]

Keep looking on eBay. I got mine on there for pretty cheap.

[@Moonrakerd]

why did you needed the matt glass ? Ive tried just puting a lens on my scanner some time ago and it just worked as is

[@FotodioxInc]

According to the people who I followed to make this scanera, without the matte finish you get a keyhole effect--only the middle of the lens's image circle is clear while the edges go black. Did you have a similar effect?

[@Moonrakerd]

@@FotodioxInc to be honest I havent checked, I was doing it with a 35mm lens just out of curiosity, so I got an image and that was it, I remember I was looking for this exact scanner or the small HP photosmart one just to do what you did ;]

[@michael_baron]

Would you even need a ground glass? As long as the optics focus on the plane of the scanning head.

[@FotodioxInc]

Michael Baron without a ground glass you get a keyhole effect. Only the very middle of the lens circle is captured and everything else vignettes

[@ClintJohnsonWriter]

I was thinking about trying this a while back and just assumed that making a holder to match the lens focal plane with the scanner focal plane and placing the scanner in the mode to scan transparencies would result in a full-colour image on a circle of coverage that the scanner could capture and allow me to crop to in post. I have an old Epson 1660 Photo I was going to sacrifice to this. If that worked I may think about a 3D printed adapter to hold an 8x10 lens in front of my Epson V850 Pro. Neither of these is portable of course... unless you consider a genset in the back of a pickup to be portable?

[@michael_baron]

@@FotodioxInc Ah, I guess the sensor expects the light to come straight on.

[@user-yv2cz8oj1k]

How portable do you want to be? i.pinimg.com/736x/02/31/09/0231099add448958ae4f2daac4b8c67b.jpg

[@gracexie]

@@michael_baron sounds this is the correct answer. I had the same question as yours.

[@sharptoothtrex4486]

Great suggestion, lad. How about using Energizer Double A Lithium batteries for that scanner?

[@FotodioxInc]

Good suggestion!

[@StanleyKubick1]

I would think that the grain would increase or decrease in correlation to the grit used when sanding

[@FotodioxInc]

For sure.

[@aprogress2374]

Cool, this one even have huge view finder 😁

[@FotodioxInc]

Yes, but I recommend covering it when you're scanning a photo, otherwise the image will be blown out.

[@aprogress2374]

@@FotodioxInc can i get true color result if i use new scanner like canon LIDE 300?

[@FotodioxInc]

@@aprogress2374 No, the nature of this setup is going to get you a very muted, almost black and white look.

[@aprogress2374]

@@FotodioxInc but, how this guy get true color result? kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJ2YhJaLhr-phMU

[@SidneyPratt]

Hi Sean, Did you ever do anything with a Fuji GX680 build into a "technical camera"? I have seen some with and without bellows. Any Ideas? Thanks Sid.

[@FotodioxInc]

That's an interesting idea, but we've never done anything with that camera.

[@MrSilesrafael]

Does it have a continuous shooting mode how many shots per minute

[@FotodioxInc]

:D

[@jacopoabbruscato9271]

I'd love to see some sample shots without the ground glass texture, it's super interesting

[@FotodioxInc]

We'd have to do a new build and swap the ground glass out for a smoother frosted surface. Something we may do a video about in the future.

[@SeanPMcAll]

Hello, I watched your camera obscura how to. I have a question about the cardboard box. Is a single box cut have the 2 pieces fit togther? If so, would you be able to send me diagram of how to cut it for that purpose? Or, is it 2 boxes that fit snugly to gether? Is that is the case, how would you find a set of boxes that fit that way.

[@FotodioxInc]

Hi Sean, we actually used one box. We just cut a strip out of the middle of it and then uses the inner and outer folding flaps of the box's construction to tuck the two halves together. It's actually not a great design, and in retrospect it would be better if we had used two boxes. Sean kind of just smashed it together really quickly one day, so we'd have to tear it apart to get you a workable diagram. If you have an email or Instagram or facebook we could at least DM you some pics of the two parts separated for reference.

[@outonpatrol123]

Awesome Awesome

[@FotodioxInc]

Thanks!

[@NickzAndMikz]

I love this

[@FotodioxInc]

Thanks!

[@NickzAndMikz]

@@FotodioxInc also I own one of your 5-in-1s haha…. And a foldable shoulder rig. Just now realizing this

[@randofo]

Very cool! I was wondering what would happen if you did that. I really should do that to mine. From the video it almost seems like you disabled the scanner light, but from what you're saying, I assume the light is still on and we're just not seeing it very well in the video?

[@randofo]

Also, two more things.... 1) I think I have figured out how to disable the scanner light (based on one of the comments on the Instructable), but it requires rewiring the scanner and I am a little nervous about pulling the trigger to do it. 2) I believe the reason it is black and white is the light bar in the scanner is actually an RGB strip and it is rapidly cycling between Red, Green and Blue lights and taking multi-channel exposures for every scan line based on the reflected light. However, it is reading the light from the camera exactly the same for every channel and that is what is producing the gray image (since all of the channels are the same exposure). If you were to get an old CCD based scanner that uses a fluorescent tube light, it actually works more like a digital camera and will takes color photos.

[@FotodioxInc]

​@@randofo The light starts bright and then dims when it realizes it's not needed much for the scan. So there's a little bar of overexposure on the edge of the frame that I just crop out in post.

[@hks9489]

Did you shoot the outdoor images at VanPatton woods? Looks familiar.

[@FotodioxInc]

The outdoor images were actually shot at Independence Grove in Libertyville.

[@wilson_law]

Does the scanner cover the whole 4x5? And i cant seem to find any sales here in Australia. Any chance you might be able to assist in purchasing and shipping one from the states? Im assuming these can be found in the shops?

[@FotodioxInc]

Yes, it actually scans a little larger than 4x5. These scanners are unfortunately pretty rare. We got ours on ebay. We can't help you get one, but happy hunting!

[@jmalmsten]

One thought.. since the scanner is at the film plane... Do you really need the glass at all? I mean, yes, if you use a normal camera to capture the giant projected image, you do need the ground glass. But I am pretty certain that, especially with the bellows camera setup, you can get the projected image plane in focus at the scanner line itself. Composing and focusing would be a chore, yes. You'd do it blindly unless you first attach the ground glass, focus and compose, then made sure it's locked off, you then replace the ground glass with the scanner assembly. It would be a chore, but you'd also not have the trouble with grain and circles that the ground glass and the fresnel lens impart on the image.

[@FotodioxInc]

Yes, you do. I tried it without any frosted/textured material and without something for the image circle of the lens to disperse on, you get a keyhole effect. Basically the scanner only scans the very center of the image circle and the rest goes into a sharp black vignette. You only end up scanning like 5% of the image. I think this is because the scanner is designed to scan a flat, dispersed document, so it behaves differently than a sheet of film or a digital camera sensor. Think the difference between film and a cyanotype.

[@weirdsciencetv4999]

Did you have to disable the sensors light bar?

[@FotodioxInc]

No, just used it as-is.

[@weirdsciencetv4999]

@@FotodioxInc does the light bar come on? I would expect it to backscatter from the ground glass. In any case, absolutely brilliant work!

[@FotodioxInc]

@@weirdsciencetv4999 Yeah, it comes on. The scanner seems to behave exactly like it would if I was scanning a document.

[@weirdsciencetv4999]

@@FotodioxInc i believe the light bar rapidly cycles between red, green, blue light. Since you’re not using reflected light to image a document, this is probably why the images are black and white. The line sensor itself is probably just a straight sensor with no color filters

[@FotodioxInc]

@@weirdsciencetv4999 That makes sense! I've actually realized with some more tests that the images aren't truly monochrome. If I boost the saturation in post, the images turn a faint blue

[@MathieuAlepin]

Why do you have to make a ground glass if it leaves huge grain scratches/ residuals on the image? What is doing this trying to accomplish exactly? If it’s to matte the screen/to remove the reflection of light off the screen, then why not just buy a non-reflective ipad screen protector or something like that to apply to the glass?

[@FotodioxInc]

Without some kind of material for the scanner to scan the lens's image circle off of, you get a keyhole effect, basically only the very center of the image is scanned and everything else is vignette. But when Sean did this project, he was unaware of the alternative kinds of matte image collectors, like the inner part of an LCD screen, which makes for a much smoother scanned image.

[@IAMDIMITRI]

I just wonder, what would happen if he didn't grind the glass?

[@user-yv2cz8oj1k]

You still need an image surface as the scanner is focused to read the surface not the image from the lens. But there are better methods, see alternative surface post.

[@IAMDIMITRI]

@@user-yv2cz8oj1k I understand why you need ground glass to focus when using large format camera. Otherwise the light just passes trough the glass and you can't see it. But surelly the scanner is made to capture light? I mean, you don't have ground glass infront of your sensor? The lens is focusing the light onto sensor. Same goes for the fernell, why would you need that? I'm just sceptical, if there is a good reason for the fernell and grounding the surface, I would love to know more in detail the reasoning behind that.

[@dovydasgrigas441]

@@IAMDIMITRI The scanner already uses a lens. Having two lenses (without a ground glass) will make an image that looks the same as you holding the lens up to your eye. For your idea to work you would need to remove the lens from the scanner to have a bare sensor.

[@keithdennis5085]

Interesting!!!

[@antoniogarcia7431]

Que ideia revolucionária

[@FotodioxInc]

Obrigado!

[@will3346]

So I managed to disable the leds on the scanner but I'm getting a large overexposed spot near the center when taking photos outside. Has anyone had similar problems?

[@southill]

How did you disable the LED's ?

[@sergiyscheblykin2554]

What will happen if you remove the glass at all and try to scan something?

[@FotodioxInc]

The scanner needs a frosted surface to scan an image off off. Without glass you'll only get a scan of the very center of the image. People who have made these scanner cameras call this effect keyholing.

[@mostlymessingabout]

Use colour filters to get colour

[@FotodioxInc]

We need to try that next!

[@gracexie]

Why do you need the grind glass? Just remove it after it is focus because the sensor shall move in the image plane without the "screen".

[@FotodioxInc]

Without a ground glass you get a keyhole effect, where only the very center of the image circle is scanned and everything else is black.

[@gracexie]

@@FotodioxInc why in a film camera it is not necessary? Somebody commented here that it is because the CCD sensor only sensitive to incident light with small angle.

[@Ryan-lu9km]

@@gracexie Because the film itself is like the ground glass, thus all of the image is exposed at once. With a scanner, it's moving along the frame, and the image projected is not in focus (because the sensor is meant to capture an image of the glass surface, not direct light).

[@gracexie]

@@Ryan-lu9km I need to go back to college optics class I took long long time ago.

[@Ryan-lu9km]

@@gracexie I'm also not that good at this, but I try to explain it anyways 🙂

[@geraldleuven169]

10:05 Alex Honnold ?

[@FotodioxInc]

No, that's Tony Santo :) kzbin.infovideos

[@geraldleuven169]

@@FotodioxInc Thanks

[@KendrickCreates]

What about dynamic range? It has to be pretty shallow

[@FotodioxInc]

Yeah, it's not great.

[@blenderbachcgi]

Scanners are actually extremely High Quality cameras since they have a Huge Sensor!

[@FotodioxInc]

Agreed! :)

[@blenderbachcgi]

@@FotodioxInc I wonder what can be achieved with a scanner the size of a Brother MFCL3710CW scanner... The images would be about 368.64 Megapixels! The Hubble Space Telescope only has a measly 16.8 Megapixels!

[@PhilXavierSierraJones]

1. If you want to do this, use soapy water. 2. The translucent diffuser sheet from a broken LCD monitor probably works better than this, and is entirely reversible.

[@FotodioxInc]

Thanks! A lot of people have recommended to LCD sheet. My next build will use that instead.

[@Tbonyandsteak]

Do you need the glass at all? Film dont uses glasses.

[@FotodioxInc]

Yes, that's true, but the scanner is designed to scan a flat reflective surface, so it acts differently from film or even a digital sensor. I did try this setup without glass and I got a keyhole effect. Basically the only part of the lens's image circle I was able to scan was a tiny part in the middle and the rest was vingette.

[@Tbonyandsteak]

@@FotodioxInc I suspect it might work without the glass, if you get the right lens, like a large format lens with enough projection view. Basicly it still just a sensor.

[@FotodioxInc]

@@Tbonyandsteak I did use a large format lens for this build, and it did cover the full scanner, but without glass all I got was a tiny part of the middle of the lens's image circle, like looking through a keyhole. With the glass and a fresnel I got full image circle coverage. It has to do with the way the sensor works. If you don't believe me, there are other people online who have built similar scanner cameras and had the same issue. One way to get less grain is to use the inner part of an LCD screen instead of ground glass like I used.

[@Tbonyandsteak]

@@FotodioxInc Ok thx, maybe a longer focal length may be different

[@alexbusoni]

best!

[@marklee81]

For some reason, my mind goes straight to making a stop motion video.

[@FotodioxInc]

It would be doable, just very, very slow :)

[@Nobody-Nowhere]

you are using the wrong type of scanner, those are contact sensors, CIS.... not CCD

[@FotodioxInc]

No, I intentionally chose this specific scanner for the look I could create with it.

[@SidneyPratt]

My brain is always working... We could use an adaptor to attach a 35mm size DSLR or mirrorless. By eliminating the mechanism that attaches the old film back and the mirror we could use the LCD on the camera to focus but this wouldn't work for a scanner as you would loose a way to focus. So, I would say keep the mirror for a scanner and loose it for a DSLR. Did I miss something? I can think of these ideas but need someone else thinking along to get it right. Cheers, Sid

[@FotodioxInc]

We already offer adapters like this, but they're for 4x5 large format cameras, not medium format ones. I'll let our design team know that there's interest in medium format ones, especially for the Fuji GX680.

[@viktorqshu940]

I'm so confused, why don't you just got a good ground glass and replace it, or to be lazy, have a gound glass sticker on top of it?

[@FotodioxInc]

Good ideas! This was an experiment that unfolded while the video was being made, not something we had already perfected before we made the video. If we can source another glass piece, a textured sticker is a genius idea.

[@squirming_squirrels]

Why on earth do you think you need to scan off ground glass? Just scan the image circle!

[@FotodioxInc]

I tried that first, but if you use a scanner rather than a sensor or a sheet of film, you get this weird keyhole effect. The center of the image is sharp but it vignettes really badly after that, making the image unusable. That's why I had to introduce a ground glass and Fresnel.

[@dominicknepper2082]

You're using WAY too much grit, too little water, and most 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper uses silicon carbide. I'm a glass artist, I do this sort of stuff every day.

[@villagranvicent]

Dominic Knepper Dominic, so a simple piece of sandpaper can be use to achieve this?

[@FotodioxInc]

Wish I had talked to you first then! Thanks for the advice, will use less next time, and look into using the paper instead too.

[@Michele_aka_Latente]

wait, you don't need to grind the glass. just take the image.

[@FotodioxInc]

Without a texture for the image to sit on, you get a keyhole effect. Basically the scanner only scans the very center of the lens's image circle and the rest goes black.

[@Michele_aka_Latente]

@@FotodioxIncmhhh looks like more a shadowing problem of the cis sensor casing. years ago while i played with a canon scanner for a similar project i had to dremel away a lot o material to expose the sensor: flic.kr/p/6ggt5a

[@shedtime_au]

Pity these have crap sensors and aren't available anywhere. Apart from that, great idea.

[@FotodioxInc]

Yeah, it's more of a fun DIY thing than anything of any quality. If you's looking for a scanner project for a scanner that is more available, check out this other scanner camera project we did: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZSbl3VnibeYj5Y

[@SudarshanAshiya]

good experiment but not much useful i guess

[@FotodioxInc]

Only useful if you want weird lo-fi images with ground glass texture in them--which Sean does :)

[@shadowhacker27]

"how to turn this into a 4x5" "well, actually, you won't get nearly as close a resolution though. It is just 2400x3600"... smh

[@FotodioxInc]

Yes, it's a lo-fi, low resolution digital monstrosity that only kind of gives you that large format look :)

[@sinerehber]

It's impossible to counterbalance the amount of light because scan time is always 20 seconds. Useless! Not to mention the disastrously bad image quality...

[@FotodioxInc]

Agreed. This only works for crazy people like me who like weird, moody lo-fi images :)

[@sinerehber]

@@FotodioxInc I like your way of thinking, really. But this is honestly too much time, effort and money invested on a fundamentally bad idea. You can get those kind of photos in quite different ways. But certainly not with a scanner.

[@FotodioxInc]

@@sinerehber Again, I agree :) For me it's less about the best way to create an image and more about the weirdest way. I did this project more as a "what if" than a "this will work well." Luckily for me, my style has always been one that leans towards a lo-fi look, so I enjoy the images I can create with this build, but that doesn't mean I won't also shoot with high end digital cameras and lenses or that I'll stop shooting true 4x5 film photography as well. I like to do a little bit of everything.

[@sinerehber]

@@FotodioxInc I watched other videos and kinda understand what you mean. subscribed!

[@creepyloner1979]

DO NOT pour water and highly abrasive dust on electronics, FFS. buy a sheet of frosted glass on ebay or any place that sells stained glass supplies and mount it frosted side down on the scanner's glass.

[@FotodioxInc]

I removed the glass screen and it's frame from the scanner, so while I was using the water and grit there were no electronics involved, just glass and plastic, which I thoroughly dried and cleaned before I re-attached it to the scanner. One of the reasons I used this method was that multiple modders before me have used it with good results. Adding a second sheet is a good idea though, but I wonder of the focus would be thrown off a little?

[@blacksand.]

or just spray mat top coat on the glass....

[@FotodioxInc]

Yep.