Building a Soundproof Garden Room - Intro & Roof Structure (part 1)

I’m building a garden office / studio space and it needs to be more or less soundproof. I struggled to find many videos on KZbin about this so thought I’d make a new mini-series about my approach to this.
Part 2 (geeky overview): • Building a Soundproof ...
I’m not going to re-invent the wheel so if you just want to know how to build a garden room follow these awesome channels:
Ali Dymock - fantastic detailed series about creating a garden room: / @alidymock
Oakwood Garden Rooms - watch how the pros do it: / @thegardenroomguru
Steve Roofer - great resource for flat roof construction: / stevewater
Here’s the full 1920’s semi renovation playlist:
• 1920's SEMI RENOVATION
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#GardenRoom #Soundproof #Studio

[@mc-yt2rc]

This is brilliant, really enjoying the films of this renovation. It must take you so long to set up, edit etc. Thank you.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Cheers! Yeah, filming triples the time it takes to do a project unfortunately... but I try to get the best bits. 😁

[@gingerelvis]

I feel your pain on shoddy trades, it's one of the reasons I do as much as I possibly can myself now.

[@outoftheburrough]

No window towards the house so the other half can flag you down? 🤣

[@tricarb01]

Conversely, my partner is an engineer. It has been PAINFUL with him building my kitchen extension. Up, down. Up, down. Resetting, re squaring up. And then, standing back and critically examining every joint. It looks great. And, I am now an authority on mortar mix, block weights. Imperial size bricks and wall plates. Bless.

[@johnfithian-franks8276]

Hi Andy, I know you don’t want to name and shame anyone, and I am quite happy with that although without naming anyone if you could point out the problem areas it might act as very good knowledge as to what to look out for if we you loyal friends should find ourselves building a similar structure in the future. Andy, you do realise that 80% of people that watch this episode will not understand what “Cack handed means

[@ccshell]

Stu Crompton has a great brick laying channel. Learnt so much

[@GosforthHandyman]

He has a great channel. 👍

[@fredthomas7254]

He does indeed. Brilliant channel.

[@planetyouranus22]

Yes, Stu is good! I'd also recommend Rob Songer. He makes brilliant tutorial vids.

[@mikiex]

@@goodcat1982 true that not all his videos are tutorials, but he does have a few and those are all very good. It's not like you need a 1000 videos on how to lay bricks?

[@Dazza19746]

@@goodcat1982 Charlie collision 👍🏻

[@thomascarhart928]

Fellow KZbiner Stu Compton would be proud of you

[@GosforthHandyman]

As long as he knows I didn't do the blockwork 😁🛠️

[@raydriver7300]

I’m impressed Andy. So March 31st was your Geordie summer. Downhill from there. 🌞 Nowadays it takes me a week to do a days work. Stay safe

[@GosforthHandyman]

Ha yeah, that's summer done. Comes earlier every year up here! 🤣

[@jamowallace]

Check out Tim from The Restoration Couple’s new workshop....looks awesome and a full start to finish diy project

[@GosforthHandyman]

Awesome - will check it out! 👍

[@dan7777]

Looking forward to coming back to binge these in 5 years time when it's all done and Andys long moved out onto his next project 😀

[@GosforthHandyman]

Stop it! We're not moving this time!! 🤣🤣

[@christianjfrancis]

This is priceless for me! As you say, there are so many different opinions on soundproofing and construction for a studio, but anyone like you who has gone to the effort of making such a detailed video of your build deserves a big thank you! How long do we have to wait for the next in the series? How's the build coming along?

[@trevorcarruthers3061]

Can I ask what you did prior to laying the blocks in terms of foundations and cement pad etc? Thanks. Looking good so far.

[@ng178jt]

Oakwood's is amazing and Liam is very helpful and if anybody is interested he's doing a raffle at the minute for charity and it goes to a really good charity. He also has a FB site that is very helpful and full community full of help

[@GosforthHandyman]

I'm not on FB but his YT is an amazing resource. 👍

[@ng178jt]

@@GosforthHandyman if you ever do go on it's a fantastic group and they have some great ideas that go in to more detail. Keep up the great work bud

[@moeneve3848]

Jesus, you planning to park a car on that roof? Love the videos btw, can't wait to see this house progress in real-time!

[@GosforthHandyman]

Ha ha cheers! The weight of the ceiling will probably be similar to a car. 😁👍

[@firesurfer]

I just said the same thing. LOL.

[@WatchingTheo]

I used 2x7s on my bathroom floor at 30 centres at 3.3m span. No issues. Full tank of water. Massive glass shower and a bath. Building control signed it off no issue

[@g2macs]

If even you get messed around by shoddy builders, what chance have we (joe public) got?

[@andygrayland5142]

None at all. I just got my driveway done by a well known local firm and I had to go out twice a day to make sure they were building it to the correct standards. This all started after I went out to discover that their levels were only 9cms above dirt for 5cm block paving. Makes me want to do everything myself.

[@distortion_plus]

Unfortunately an all too familiar story of awful builders 🤦‍♂️ Someone such as yourself who is very capable (but might be inexperienced in some specific aspects) will do a much better job. You’ll think about it, always have the end goal in sight and make sure it’s done properly. You’re not gonna throw it up to knock off early. Unless you’re working with specialist studio construction people, ordinary builders will never be thorough enough because it’s so crucially different from a usual job. (There’s a lot of “but wouldn’t it be EASIER if we just...) Subscribing now, your vids have helped me many times already!

[@iansheppard6735]

Late again - anyway, FYI the nominal cube strength of a 1:6 mortar is 3.5 N/mm2 - this is not directly comparable to a block cos you test the whole block and not a cube, so the shape will affect the final strength. Still, I thought someone might like to know they are not a million miles apart

[@GlennBroadway]

Love the way you link to both Oakwood and Steve Roofer - those two have somewhat differing opinions about hybrid roofs!

[@GosforthHandyman]

Ha really? They're both awesome channels. I've seen Liam's vids about hybrid roofs and sure they're fine. Not many options with the permitted development thing. Wish it was 2.7m instead of 2.5! 🤣

[@CharlieDIYte]

@@GosforthHandyman Great vid, mate. Personally I'm in the Steve camp on hybrid roofs. There are (to my mind, and what do I know...) too many flaws with the hybrid idea, not least the multiple perforations of the vapour barrier for installation of the down lights. It's either warm or its cold and if it's cold, I think it needs ventilating.

[@johnmit]

@@CharlieDIYte Yep - for a proper hybrid roof to work it needs at least half the insulation above the structural deck (i.e. as per a warm roof). Oakwood's 'hybrid' roof is essentially a cold roof with no ventilation. They might just about work in a garden room provided the humidity levels are kept low (so no shower rooms). The commercial composite panels that Tim from Restoration Couple used (and Oakwood have trialled recently) look very promising - you get a warm roof + structure + weatherproofing + internal finish/vpc all in a ~100mm depth. And these are all excellent videos, as are yours. So much more informative and helpful then the Collins DIY Manual I've got sat on the shelf!

[@hammy228]

Hi Love the channel, why did you change from mortar to adhesive on the wall plates ? And what’s normal

[@HavenVilla]

We don't have the luxury of many of the tools you guys have here but we try our best with what we do have. On my Housebuild going on right now everything is done manually. It is taking longer but we will be finished when it is finished.

[@Jules_Pew]

My brother is building me a garden office atm. To get round the 2.5m rule, we're having a step down from the door. The concrete blocks will be waterproofed inside so no damp. He's just built pillars along the single layer of concrete blocks. We'll then insulate, plaster board etc. Also as the door is more central, he's made a pitch over it to again give more height inside - bit difficult to explain without pictures. The roof is being tiled to match the house. Interesting to see different methods.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Fantastic! Are you on Insta? Post some pics... or e-mail [e-mail] 👍

[@Jules_Pew]

@@GosforthHandyman I'll email them tomorrow - need to take pics and it's dark.

[@SenselessUsername]

Did the same, step down --- mostly because I wanted a green roof as it's 25% of whole back garden, while 60% is a concrete 1980s patio plus some more passage leaving less than 5% bedding. Roof joists for carrying 120kg/sq m eat up vertical space.

[@Jules_Pew]

Sent them yesterday. Posting just in case they went into spam folder.

[@thepeginator2556]

You’re probably all over it but a cost breakdown would be awesome! Interesting vs the cost of a timber frame too although I appreciate they’re totally different beasts and you’d save ££ on Labour doing a timber frame yourself.

[@ChrisFranklyn]

I always forget that saws come with 45 and 90 degree angles on the handle!

[@freetolook3727]

@13:00 Yeah, we here in The Great Industrial Northeast across the pond have similar weather. One day summer, the next, back to winter.

[@maureenbrown6610]

I live in Newcastle and would like to know if you needed to get planning permission for this structure? Thanks

[@barryford7135]

A quick tip, lay all the joists down on edge, sort them out for crowns & pair them up with similar crowns. Check out Robin Clevett on KZbin for top carpentry tips.

[@MrDBT85]

I feel your pain going through it all Andy. I built my own 30m2 timber workshop during Lockdown 1.0 95% single handed. Some of those wet beams are HEAVY.

[@andymccabe6712]

Boy-oh boy-oh boy! HASN'T this brought the 'experts' out of the woodwork??! EVERYone knows how to do this better than you - and they'd all follow building regs to the LETTER (with knobs on - and a few extra, unnecessary knobs, just to be absolutely sure the buildings inspector was completely happy.........!)

[@GosforthHandyman]

Tell me about it, and I've deleted some of the best ones. Including someone who told me polystyrene is more soundproof than concrete. 🤣👍

[@grahamsquared]

Cheers for the vid mate. I am doing something similar and also had builder nightmares leading to dismissal. Worse than yours though! What will you be doing for damp proofing? Is there a DPC on the inner leaf? Cheers!

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yes, DPC on both leaves 👍

[@KarlKKC]

did you slope your roof ? just asking as im at the stage were i need to build my roof and not sure on slope. height ect

[@lightofislam4308]

Doesn't it need to be double blocked as.its over 1m in hieght

[@ChickenDinnerz]

Thanks for the video. Can I ask what put you off applying for planning permission to make the roof a little taller?

[@GosforthHandyman]

The 3 month delay it would add. 👍

[@rontanser9369]

Are you going to put a green roof on your workshop it’ll look good and blend in if it has flowers growing on the top or grass and it’ll add extra installation and soundproofing

[@GosforthHandyman]

Unfortunately it would break the 2.5m rule! 🙄

[@najaneda]

Have a look at Ash Soan in the studio, he's a top session drummer, think it might be of interest to you.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Awesome drummer and his studio is amazing! 👍

[@maryellis3661]

I had a garage built the water seems to be coming into the building between the concrete base and bottom row of blocks :(

[@kieran.stafford]

Don't mean to be negative but the block work looks dog rough. Ok it'll all be covered I know, but Jesus Wept; whoever laid those blocks, get some training and have some pride in your work for the love of god. Andy you should have done this yourself, its a small enough job. You'd have done it properly and it would have given you video content.

[@TheErador]

Thank heaven he didn't do it himself and let those original builders loose on the extension instead...

[@GosforthHandyman]

I was tempted but it would have taken me forever. It's all getting covered so I'm not too bothered. The building isn't square either! 🙄😂

[@MajestyStudioPro]

Using screws instead of nails, that is asking for trouble.

[@legacysupplies3132]

Hi, did you put air bricks in to prevent moisture in walls and concrete floor? Doing a build now and not sure to use air bricks or not, don't want sound leakage nor damp 😑

[@erlwindegans3954]

Just a question. How does cladding the outside work for the building regs of non combustible material? Just asking as I would be in a similar situation. Great video!!!

[@GosforthHandyman]

Cheers! Good question and building regs themselves didn't know the answer to this. The terminology is "substantially non-combustible" which this is, but I would check with your local building control. 👍

[@JonGTranceClassics]

Thanks for the video, love this series. Looking forward to the rest coming up.

[@PetraKann]

What on earth is going on here ladies and gentlemen? Absolutely appalling roof design.

[@paulprescott7913]

Nice work Andy. Im watching this and thinking this is how i should have built my workshop.

[@nickrice5]

So excited to watch this build take shape. I'm in the middle of a garden studio/drum room as well. Two completely isolated leafs three plasterboard layers thick. We dug down a bit to gain some ceiling height under 2.5m but now unfortunately dealing with drainage issues causing it to flood 🤦🏻‍♂️ Here's a timelapse of where we're at kzbin.info/www/bejne/qWq2qqWAlLuWfNk

[@ourclarioncall]

Did u finish it ? Any video ?

[@mandyleeson1]

Well done, Andy. Great job. Can't believe the cowboys couldn't even get the wall straight. Good on you for getting on with it.

[@yves1551]

Great job but a few remarks: 1) there's no ventilation in between the outside- and inside wall??? means that your insulation gets moist because the outside wall will retain water. The moist wont go away easily, the insulation absorbs the moist, eventually transferring moist to you inside wall en causing spots on your plaster....Would have been better to use PIR insulation in this case , that doesn't absorb moist. Otherwise, there should have been small holes in the outside wall bottom and top for ventilation. whether it has to be soundproof or not. 2) using cement as an adhesive for connecting wood (joists on top of wall) with concrete (wallblocks) ???? That's very odd and waiting for problems: it will separate sometime. You'd better use small levelling strips (like they use when placing windowframes) , then drilling/screwing into he concrete blocks and fill the gap doublesided with expandable glue. Just as well insulated and for constructive reasons way better imho.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Cheers! Outside wall will be clad so wall shouldn't be getting wet. 👍

[@westwonic]

Wall cavity filling with insulation if done properly does not allow water passage across the cavity, as the fibres in the cavity wall insulation are deliberately vertical, thus water will descend to the damp proof course, which should be a cavity tray with weepholes. I didn't see any weepholes here, but as the building will be clad it's not a problem.

[@denniskelly6177]

Can you let us know what the cost was

[@hepburn118]

Oh we know its not going to be a workshop, the police should probably keep an eye on dissapearing people around your 'workshop'....sorry 'editing room'......wink.......

[@johncunningham3547]

sound proofed for the drum kit to??

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yup! To stop noise getting out and to stop noise getting in when I'm recording etc. 👍

[@novacaino]

I clicked on this wondering why a sane, non serial killer man would need a sound proof shed. Thanks for clarifying. "KZbin"...

[@winelover8620]

You have a good channel however you keep hiding important information! keep mentioning "The Member zone" !? are you not earning enough money from KZbin !?

[@GosforthHandyman]

The member zone is extra content not suitable for KZbin. Happy to say it's not mandatory to join though. 🤣

[@galjozsef]

Hi there can I ask what the size of your shed?

[@lledrmorganp3591]

Our neighbours built a 2m kitchen extension in 2 weeks start to finish including all bricklaying ,plumbing, electrics and roofing and not a council official in sight !! Amazing what certain types of building firms can get away with when you keep it to your own community !!

[@KARLOS121]

Not now you have told the world

[@lledrmorganp3591]

@@KARLOS121 good

[@rossl2544]

I've noticed all the treated timber I've bough as of late has been very wet, like its only just been cut. lucky that id done my workshop roof before i had this issue.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yeah, this was crazily wet. Like water dripping out when you screwed a screw in. 😬

[@rossl2544]

@@GosforthHandyman yes i had that first time on a job at the start of this lockdown when i did a canopy for someone. as you say every screw you put in you got a pint of water out, i really wanted to leave the timber to sit around and dry for a while before using it but they did not want to wait so now im waiting for it to warm up and the timber shrink creating gaps everywhere

[@justinhaydn]

I'm looking at a design for a 6 metre by 3m garden room. Would it be possible to know what software you used for design on your computer? Cheers in advance

[@AS19283]

Bulletproof construction with the twin wall and twinned C24 joists! I’ve got single C16s doing a 4.5M 12 degree pitch and they’re fine! Yours will last longer than most new houses 😂👍

[@GosforthHandyman]

Cheers! Really hoping it does the job on the soundproofing front. Think it will. Time will tell. 👍😁

[@ice4142]

Glad someone else thinks this. I was worried I had undersurfaces under spec'd my garage roof. Will have to wait to see the roof Andy puts on this.

[@girlsdrinkfeck]

how dare a tradesman advertise he can build a garden building and stacks blocks up in line :o

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yeah, I couldn't believe that. Didn't notice it until they'd gone. 🙄

[@eyarsink4316]

hi boss i like your working style i have one question for you do i need for planning permission outbuilding office room or garden room can you tell me plz

[@monkayjim999]

Really useful video, what was the size of the wall plates you used? Also what size joists did you use and what was the overall span? Thanks !

[@MarkWillis-re5sj]

How much overhang mate on the roof?

[@GurkoKurdo]

i thought cement doesn't attach to wood?

[@raj080288]

Are they breeze or thermal blocks?

[@shixiongjiang3516]

What is the goal of installing the metal straps?

[@GosforthHandyman]

Stops the roof blowing off 👍

[@JoeB_BSc]

I like your "jiggery pokery" Andy. If memory serves right, in my opinion, there was a cafe/shop in Northumberland with such a name. Very helpful video thanks

[@TrailVapor]

You refer to Oakwood garden rooms? Are you joking.. no. Oakwood miss keys building rules like door threshold flashings, cladding ventillation, metal priming.. yawn

[@andymccabe6712]

Ooh! an armchair building regs nerd - lovely ........!

[@dinosauria55]

Should there ne a lintel above the window? It looks saggy in the middle tho that might just be how it looks on camera.

[@proggydan8257]

Stumbled across your channel as I too am a drummer just starting a build [nowhere near so cleve as yours] for pracice room in garden. May I ask please - when fixing the straps to walls [to keep roof on] - did you screw directly in to the block? Or, are there plugs in 1st?

[@hammy228]

Ahh you have just answered 🤣

[@ellydavis2066]

I've never seen a piece of wood mortared in before. I didn't know you could do that.

[@5084204]

Can you build a garden brick and mortar shed without planning permission in the UK????

[@ericgomez3948]

Thank you Andy. You have done brilliant job and I am building a shed with blocks and I am stuck with the roof. Will a 2x4 in the front be sufficient for the slope? My room is 4x5m. I would love to keep the slope with 2 2x4 in the front but then I will be over on the 2.5m hight restriction. Appreciate if you can give me some advise.

[@LostWhits]

What's the weakest link in the soundproofing part of this build? Windows? Door?

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yeah, defo door and window... followed by ceiling. Watch this space though, will explain on the next vid. 👍

[@ricos1497]

@@GosforthHandyman Surely the weakest link will be the bloody racket you'll make on those drums?

[@rivergate]

What happened with the joist sizes? Did you manage to lighten the roof weight so that single 44x144C24's could work?

[@rivergate]

Ah. You still went for doubles. Okay. Cool.

[@rivergate]

Oh my.... And a shout out. Humbled. Thank you 🙏😺

[@GosforthHandyman]

Hey no worries at all and thanks again! Yeah, went for the 144's so that I could have better ventilation over the 100mm insulation. 👍

[@garvielloken3929]

19:27 BEAUTIFUL!!! nooice!!!

[@michaelevans1658]

Great set of videos Andy ,particularly as i had 35 years in the building industry doing various jobs from laboring to Architects snagging lists. Oh one thing you cannot beat a overhang on a workshop keeps the weather at bay.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yup, nice big overhang - will look great with some spots. 👍

[@Bobrogers99]

That's going to be a very strong roof, even though in the UK you don't have to be as concerned about snow load as we do in New Hampshire USA! I'll bet you'll be so glad to cover up the wonky joints of the cement blocks. Anybody would look at it and say, "That's not Andy's work!"

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yeah, that roof ain't going anywhere. It has to take quite a high load from the soundproof ceiling. 👍

[@Dr.Gunsmith]

Every man needs a man cave, nice build.

[@Trident_Media7104]

The scrap wood and clamps to hold the wood whilst you fix it is genius x

[@smiffy5467]

You say it has to be non combustible, but your neighbour has a wood shed almost directly behind your build?

[@GosforthHandyman]

I think if it's classed as a 'temporary' structure it doesn't matter. 👍

[@mollyrockers2401]

Brilliant as usual, but I am really surprised that you managed to employ ‘cowboys’ It just doesn’t fit your otherwise attention to detail ? Having said that I am sure you will learn from that mistake and next time employ someone with genuine care and skill, such as previously suggested ‘Stu Crompton ‘ you get what you pay for (sometimes). No offence Andy, love your work and vids. Best wishes and thank you.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Ha, yeah think we just got unlucky. Don't know if they're always like that or it was just a bad job. We failed to do some basic checks from the outset though - too trusting! 👍🤣

[@jimstelfox6120]

Why does the insulation/soundproofing not go all the way to the top, it stops a block short

[@normanboyes4983]

Nice job on the roof joists. When you get to the roof covering, which I assume will be EPDM - be very careful with layout so that you have at least two sides of the roof giving you the maximum offcuts - increases the chance of making superb underwear.🤪

[@karenhargreaves1646]

How did you get the digger into the garden??

[@GosforthHandyman]

Knocked the garage down. 👍

[@bradleyloxton2125]

What’s your internal height from floor to ceiling??

[@samuellewis8893]

absolutely perfect timing on this, need to make a room as soundproof as possible in a busy environment and couldn't see many decent tutorials on youtube, looking forward to this part of the series

[@GosforthHandyman]

Cheers - hope you enjoy!

[@chrisofalltrades5666]

If you don't treat the cut ends and notches in your pressure treated wood, you create an absorbent weak spot that WILL rot within a few years. Fair warning bud.

[@andymccabe6712]

Isn't the point of pressure treated timber that the treatment fully penetrates the timber so that it won't rot......?!

[@Gprecey]

I love your videos have learned so much!

[@felixreali7101]

Really loving these vids, Andy ! Keep 'em coming :-)

[@GosforthHandyman]

Thank you! 👍🤘

[@freetolook3727]

Yes, I am very familiar with those concrete blocks. I used them when I was in business to level mobile homes. I had a complete system to level and stabilize mobile homes so the piers didn't sink in the mud or dirt. They weigh about 45-50 pounds each. I know because I had to calculate the load weigh of what I could carry in my trailer.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Arms of steel 👍😁🛠️

[@andrewschannel3635]

Sorry if I missed it but what is the floor area? I thought that if it was under 15m2 then building regulations didn’t apply with regards to non combustible materials?

[@GosforthHandyman]

It's just over 16m2 👍

[@l.s.tukbigbud7715]

Is this an old video ur have you knocked the garage down..

[@GosforthHandyman]

Knocked the garage down. 👍

[@clothedwiththesun]

Fibreglass wool insulation??? What if the damp eventually penetrates the outer skin?

[@GosforthHandyman]

It will be clad - damp won't penetrate the outer skin 👍

[@michaelmellen7375]

Iv not long finished something pretty much the same, I did a epdm roof

[@Cablesmith]

New subscriber here, great video mate 👌🏼

[@nicpye248]

It wasn’t anything special Andy, in fact I think I’ve seen you comment on their channel. It was bricklaying with Steve and Alex.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Awesome channel, here's a link to one of their vids... kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKasoZ6hp7Rpibs

[@Siansonea]

Whenever I hear someone say "the forecast didn't call for any rain so I didn't cover the thing that needs to stay dry, but it rained anyway" I just have to shake my head. Why do people trust forecasts? Why don't people take this type of precaution against water incursion as a matter of course? I really don't understand this at all.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Because it's not a big issue in any way. It was just a passing comment.

[@andymccabe6712]

@@GosforthHandyman ah, but you never quite know who you're gonna encounter on KZbin.......do you?!?! Makes life interesting though, eh? Thank goodness WE'RE normal .....!!!

[@negotiableaffections]

I know you lads all say, 'jobs a good'un,' or 'it won't build itself' but HEY, Andy, you earned your Raddox bath on that one! Take a well earnt pat-on-the-back m8 and sod the modesty! Q. Why do the regs suggest those straps on the roof plates? Wouldn't bolts straight down through the plates be more secure?

[@GosforthHandyman]

I'm not sure, I guess there's a risk of the block splitting with bolts straight down. Plus shear load on the straps would beat axial load from the top... I guess? 🤔😁👍

[@hbpw857]

What depth and width of concrete did you use in the footing for that Pal looks good 👍

[@MelbourneAlan]

its interesting to see the diference in the way people build , we wouldnt be allowed to use screws like that and definetly not with plugs why did you use c24 for the walplate. surely that extra cost has no benifit over c16. why did you not mechanically fix the wallplate down to the block why didnt you mechanically join the 2 wallplates together. what did you use to bolt the joists together . we have to go 600 centers and stagered top to bottom every second bolt

[@GosforthHandyman]

There wasn't much in it cost wise for the C24. C16 tends to be less straight over longer runs. Bear in mind this is a glorified shed though. 👍🛠️

[@Mike_5]

Brilliant idea but do you have to adjust the spirit level to proper Geordie settings?

[@reecemarriott5328]

It's up! But the bonding on that is terrible!! They haven't worked out the bond from the start and have put bricks in the side to fill in gaps, always have cuts in corners and run in full blocks, stretcher,

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yeah, it's crazy. They had free rein to pick the size too - as long as it was min 5m x 3.5m. Go figure?🙄🤔