Building a Spline-Relax Solver with Cinema 4D Scene Nodes.

[@MathisNiemeyer]

Again a really cool setup, love it! Two tips: - There is an automatic conversion from Array to Array, you don't have to extract the translation yourself. - Use Assemble Collection where possible, that's more efficient and also allows for parallelisation. E.g. the Set Element node between Closest Point On Surface and Assemble Spline can be replaced by an Assemble Collection node because it uses the loop index. Only use Set Element when you need random access to the array (i.e., when you want to write to other elements than those for the current index).

[@realruckli]

Thanks again for the great tips. So if I understand this correctly, this affects performance, right? Can you may tell me where to get such valuable insides, would be highly interested :)

[@scenenodestips]

@@realruckli `Scene Nodes Editor > Debug > Enable Heat Map` is a great way to find places where your graphs are operating slowly. One thing to watch out for with `Assemble Collection` is that it doesn't work with multiple scopes/nested-loops. In those cases you need to use the (slower) Append node.

[@realruckli]

@@scenenodestips ​ thanks for the tip. Yep, the heat map is already in heavy use. Ole also gave me valuable insides to optimize my setups. I built a new "shortest path" setup with his inputs, it's super fast and makes perfect use of the parallel execution. I'll prepare a tutorial in the next weeks about it. Thank you guys again for the kind support :)

[@nikomedia]

Interessantes Tutorial 👍 Freut mich, dass wenigstens Einer (Du 😉) sich die Mühe macht, ein wenig in die Nodes einzutauchen. Von Maxon kommt da ja leider nichts. LG aus Wien, Niko.

[@realruckli]

Hallo Niko, welch eine Ehre :) . Es freut mich, dass es dir gefällt. Ich denke, das liegt daran, dass Scene Nodes noch in Beta ist und sich somit noch einiges ändern kann. Deshalb hält sich Maxon da noch etwas zurück. Aber eigentlich sind alle Nodes bereits sehr gut dokumentiert, es scheint mir einfach, dass sich keiner die Mühe macht, diese zu lesen :D . Ebenfalls empfehle ich jedem, sich ein paar Grundkenntnisse in Programmieren und Vektormathematik anzueignen, ansonsten wirds mit Nodes allgemein schwer, egal welche Software. Ganz liebe Grüsse aus der Schweiz

[@llealloo]

This is a really cool tutorial. I had no idea that scene nodes were capable of such high level functions. Starting to look a bit like houdini minus the breadth of prebuilt tools (for example in this video having to build the "resample" node in houdini from scratch).

[@realruckli]

Yep it is everything there to build great stuff from the ground up and if it is built correctly, the performance is top.

[@llealloo]

@realruckli do you think it's faster than if the same logic were made with python?

[@realruckli]

I think so yes

[@MotionPunk]

great job man! i wish they finally add high lvl nodes in there so we can work. Its funny how easier is houdini in comparison.

[@llealloo]

I've been using c4d+xpresso+python for 17 years and just started learning houdini. I have to agree, just building the resample is wild in c4d vs houdini. Makes you really appreciate the prebuilt tools that houdini has available! Hopefully Maxon also does it in a similar way to houdini where you can drop into nodes to see how they work (i.e. a resample node built with high level nodes on the inside). They already kiiind of did this eons ago with XPresso X-Pool System Presets. All that said, this tutorial made me think twice about sleeping on scene nodes! Looks like they are really having a go at the houdini workflow. I had previously thought that scene nodes were only capable of much lower level stuff.

[@Mbitionz]

Great tutorial, could we start the setup with an edge selection instead of spline? (i.e similar to resample node in Houdini) ?

[@realruckli]

Definitely doable. But when we convert an edge selection to a spline (for example, with the edge to spline node) we have more than just one spline segment. So that also requires the handling of the segments of the assemble spline node. Therefore, I have no quick solution ready for this problem. Maybe i'll tackle this problem when I've got some time. Cheers

[@Mbitionz]

@realruckli, I appreciate your response. I'm looking forward to seeing your expertise shine in this area! 😉

[@caimax3075]

thanks for sharing. I try to use this trick to make a capsule, but it seems the memeory node does not work with capsule. Is it a capsule limitation?

[@realruckli]

The memory node works in the object group capsule since 2024.1. In older versions it just works in the scene node context. And i think it will also work in the other capsules in future versions

[@timtim5327]

thanks for video! How to change time range for this node? Very quick animation

[@realruckli]

Hi Timtim, glad you like it. Do you mean how to slow down the effect?

[@timtim5327]

Yep, i want a little bit slow. So i changed point size, but not helpful@@realruckli

[@timtim5327]

@@realruckli yes I want to slow down the effect because it's too fast. I have a point size, it didn’t help, what should I do to make the effect slower and not have strong shaking?

[@realruckli]

@@timtim5327 I built a Spline Capsule with an additional smoothing setting. For a slow movement make the Relax-Size just a slight bit bigger than the Point-Size. You can fin tune the effect with the Max Iterations and the Smoothing Setting (all Settings on the Capsule). Getting rid of the jittering is close to impossible, thats the nature of this effect and the limitation of the Point Relax Node. But you can tone it down to a minimum. You can download the new Capsule on gumroad. Have fun :)

[@MographChamp]

Love this stuff even though it's way over my head. I followed along and got a good result on everything but the gradient material on the spline. The gradient looks like it its spaced far out and the spline only covers a small portion of the gradient. I don't see the tight bands from all the gradient knots like on your sample. Any thoughts on what I'm missing with that material step. Re-watched the last 2 mins several times but can't get my RS material to like the same.

[@realruckli]

Hi @MographChamp hhmm hard to say what's going on without seeing the scene file. You can send me a PN with the scene file to check it or you can download my example file from gumroad and compare it with your file. Hope that helps.

[@MographChamp]

@@realruckli aww! the Material Op in the tutorial is showing as spherical projection but in your file it's uvw. When I switch mine to uvw projection it appears the same as your demonstration in the tutorial. When my material op is set to Spherical projection like in your video at 29:59 the gradient looks spread out like the spline is online being covered by a small part of the gradient. I know it was a small detail but it was driving me crazy on last step. Thanks for making the file available.

[@realruckli]

@@MographChamp oh yes you are right, the Material Op is set to Spherical by defult, what I think is very strange, UV would make more sense to me. Forgot to change this in the tutorial. Hope everybody who has the same problem reads your comment :)

[@eduardoluisbaptistadeolive8542]

amazing stuff!

[@tiagocardoso4434]

Awesome!!

[@subframestudio]

Perfect man!

[@visualscience2502]

man, this is an awesome tutorial, but how the hell did you figure all this stuff out. i seriously think Maxon needs to rethink how they are doing the scene nodes stuff. its really not intuitive.

[@realruckli]

It is actually not as bad as everyone thinks. It is everything there to build complex stuff, and the performance is also pretty nice if everything is built correctly. But I think it is useful to have a basic understanding of programming and vector math for the moment because there are not as many high-level nodes as in Houdini and Blender. But the core for doing complex vector math is there. Scene Nodes are still in beta, it is definitely possible that they will rethink certain things.

[@kazlica]

@@realruckli Hi, do you have something like a beginner's guide to scene nodes? Even with a basic understanding of arrays/iterations etc., I still find scene nodes extremely ambiguous, because cinema has it's own implementation of the above-mentioned concepts(you need to actually know what a specific port expects and what data type is being returned and how to further process it, etc.). Or do I just need to spend some time binge-learning hardcore math and programming and expect it all to suddenly "click" at some point? Thank you

[@realruckli]

@@kazlica Yes, I already thought about some small beginner tutorials, but I do not want to promise anything yet. It depends a bit on my free time and motivation ;) And yes, I highly recommend having some basic (not "hardcore" :) ) understanding of programming and vector math. And some knowledge in computer graphics is also a nice addition. This all helps in general, no matter wich 3D software you want to dive into. But for the start, I can recommend reading the documentation Maxon provides. There are also a lot of helpful scene files hidden in the documentation.

[@devy_animations]

Hi! Don't know if you're still reading comments, but I hope you can assist me with this. Whenever I try to import the spline animation into a separate project, the animation stops working. Even when I copy/paste the original nodes - no luck. Can't seem to add another spline to the node editor either (another letter, for example). It just slightly distorts the original spline. Just want this animation in another scene, that's all. I'm new to the node editor, so any insight on this is much appreciated!

[@realruckli]

Hi decy, hmm not realy sure whats going on there, but it could be that some parameter reset when you copy to a new project. Check if the parameter values are still the same in the new project

[@devy_animations]

Appreciate the response. Those are a lot of nodes to individually check. Is it possible to cache the animation to import as an object?@@realruckli

[@realruckli]

@@devy_animationsNow in 2024.1 the memory node also works in the object group capsule. So you can copy the whole setup from the scene node context to this capsule and then try to bake it as alembic.

[@radoman1234]

my brain hurts :D

[@superpetun]

dont work with octane ??

[@realruckli]

I have no Octane, but i see no reason why it should not work with Octane.

[@fiveshorts]

But this isn’t creative is it. It’s like being a coder. The number of users with real artistic ideas who’ll be able to master scene nodes at this level must be very small. Which means the introduction of another split. A step backwards in my opinion. I know it how Houdini works. But anything requires such a left brain approach and retention of node behavior is a total creative buzz kill.

[@realruckli]

Yes you can call it visual coding what I'm doing here. Same like in Blenders Geometry Nodes or Houdinis VOBs. For example, VOBs is the visual coding equivalent to text based VEX coding. Nodes are perfect to build tools, which then can be used by creatives to make nice stuff ;) . Something we now heavily experience in Blenders Geometry Nodes.

[@stemfourvisual]

You may be missing the point that now clever folk like Dom can make really advanced processes within C4d that can be used by artists like us, either via tutorials, as capsules, and so on. This only increases the tools available to all of us, surely? Everyone benefits really.