Building Lithium Batteries ? Which Spot Welder is For You?

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Re-uploaded without music HERE kzbin.info/www/bejne/gILSf3WIp8-mmtEsi=9jmaOFRsoBQsbvcH

[@chris.mc3b]

40 mins of this music is silly

[@axyzcx]

I'm glad I noticed this comment after first 15 minutes watching

[@ryanjones3057]

My favorite is the guy in the back making sure your saying everything correctly and confirming with head nods. Keep him around. :)

[@mikejosef2470]

I thought the same thing!

[@bestestname6757]

Man you guys are on point. It seems like every time I have a question about how to build my e bike build, your videos are the best and most in depth. Non biased, straight forward information. Just keep doing what your doing and you'll help more people than you know.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Well thank you very much ! We appreciate the kind words 😊

[@paulmryglod4802]

Well said

[@remjax1]

Nice video EXCEPT for the music which was annoying!

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Thank you! We have noted it :)

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Re-uploaded without music

[@ntulsian]

Please consider posting the video without the background music, as the music is very annoying to me snd possibly others.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Well noted thank you!

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gILSf3WIp8-mmtEsi=9jmaOFRsoBQsbvcH No music re-uploaded

[@mikejosef2470]

I don't mind it, but it's certainly unnecessary.😂

[@allinclusive5762]

this ... music. That's why I have blood in my ears now! 😫

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Reuploaded

[@Tikun-Israel5784]

Still very bad especially if you run videos 2x speed.

[@gregs3580]

I have to thank you for this video. I bought the docreate and just tested with .1mm x10mm pure nickel and copper sandwich. I had to pry the weld with a wire cutter to break it and each spot left copper attached to either end of a 18650 cell. I also found that this would securely reweld in many cases tabs typically found on Dewalt, Milwaukee and Ryobi battery packs making a single cell replacement far easier than breaking apart the entire pack. I guess I should try to draw the circuit in the Docreate and see if there is a way to increase the capacitance to allow deeper penetration of thicker materials. But the combination of .1mm cu and ni at 10mm wide is very sufficient in virtually all tool batteries.

[@1bottlefed]

Thanks for taking the time to review the various types of welders and helping those considering a welder to gain some knowledge into the various options. That said IMHHO the welders should not just stick the strip to the battery. An OK weld will be take moderate effort to pull off with pliers, a proper weld will tear out sections of the strip. To me acceptable of most pack construction and Somewhere in the middle is a weld that (on tear off) is causing a decent amount of material transfer from the strip....IE the weld although not penetrating the strip fully causing tear out of small sections of the strip, it will melt enough of the strip to cause a substantial depression in the strip and corresponding deposition of nickel onto the battery terminal. This is the minimum I would consider acceptable for two reasons. One is that anything with less weld penetration and area will be transferring the current through a small area (when in use) and this will generate a lot of localized heating that over time will fatigue the weld and can cause it to separate. The second issue is even if this is in a very low current draw pack (say a true 250-350w e bike) the vibration of the cells in the pack encountered over bumps can also cause fracture of the welds.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Excellent comment , thank you for the valuable insight ! You are right a strong weld has to be very hard to remove. If it can stick then 3-4 weld points (6-8 points on the cell) MAY do the job but deep penetration like you mentioned is the most important. Thank you!

[@antikdeela5625]

Great review! - I'm a 75 yr old guy planning a 48v battery build for my converted Specialized stump jumper that I'm going to use on Vancouver Island this summer - I already bought the AwithZ unit and although it did a good job on the included nickel plated steel, after watching your review I tried it out with some 1.5 pure nickel and it didn't stick very well. Thinking I should return it and get something else. Thanks guys!

[@aaronbinder6903]

Wow, 75 and still riding Ebikes!! That's great man!! I'm 47 and that gives me hope for the future!

[@antikdeela5625]

@@aaronbinder6903 I just rebuilt a Mercedes too

[@actulice]

This is great, great information! I live off grid and can't supply the AC current peaks that plug in bench mount welders draw, and the handheld cell powered welders really don't have enough power, as we saw. I was about to spend the big bucks on the Kweld kit , (about $400 cad to my door) but the capacitor unit you showed worked well and will sip power from my solar setup. Such real and useful material is like gold. Thank you.

[@maxentropy7596]

I would be interested to know more about your choice of power source for your k-Weld. I have a K-Weld but have not decided on a power source.

[@david78212]

I’m getting ready to remake a small battery pack (6 cells) and you answered a ton of questions that I had, now I know that the small self contained welder will work fine for what I’m going to need it for, thanks.

[@jaspermachnik]

Sweet! Wish there was a video like this years ago... Thanks, man!

[@scottstansberry6844]

Thanks. Wish I'd seen this before buying the kerpu-like model I bought.

[@johnclarke6647]

I don’t know who made my spot welder but I got it off Amazon. It cost $29.99 and change. Its model is DHJ-02B. I connect it to my spare Lawn Tractor battery. It works like a champ. I watched the video on UTube and there was no learning curve. I put together a ten cell DeWalt battery pack with it and it works fine.

[@zsebi696]

thank you for posting this video. I've a learned a lot form it. two things to mention: you do not have a battery holder? It is painfull to watch the wobbling battery during welding. second, in the first few test with the smaller spot welder, you say it holds and it pass... not for me. if i can pull it off easy it is NOT a PASS

[@hisforhack]

This was the video I was waiting for, Thanks. Liked the honest and surprise reaction to how well the capacitor welder worked. You will still build my E-bike battery packs, but I have smaller 12v -18v packs to repair. Thank again

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Thank you ! Yes I was very pleasantly surprised with that unit. I wish it was available when I was starting out :) Thanks for watching!!

[@1DumbSquirrel]

your cameraman is on point lol

[@Ilan-Aviv]

thanks for this great video for battery spot welders :)

[@jeffmill2]

I would not waste my money on any of those. Aliexpress for 145$ you can get an 801H, which is reasonable for building any reliable pack for any ebike battery with high discharge current.. Unless you want to rebuild shavers I would not trust any of these units shown. If you can pull the strip loose with your hand you ARE buying an accident waiting to happen. Also if you have the smarts and talent to perform this work then you have the smarts and talent to buy a good welder !!

[@IMBruceECLECTIC]

Great information for a newbie like me.....I am amazed at the technology ...but still think I will buy from legitimate seller. Looks like it will be time consuming to build a big battery. Glad I subscribed! Always trying to learn something and your Channel helps make that possible!!

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Thank you for the kind words, and thanks for watching! :)

[@bombtuetuebomb8363]

Cool video brother, I learnt a lot from your comprehensive advice👆🏻👍🏻 Much appreciated

[@JamesMaendel]

Great video definitely like the k welder the best because it is adjustable and can possibly also do other thin metels Thanks for the great videos always learn alot

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Thank you for watching James ! 😊

[@turkcanatilir3943]

Thanks for the review. You helped me much.❤

[@guilhermefrancoaminger8332]

Thanks for your great video. Talking about the types of Handheld Units, I think you could make your video even more interesting if you add comments on: 1) The advantage of having a rounded tip or not. K-weld has rounded finish on tip and your preferred tool has fully flat needles. 2) Which handheld units can adjust the distance between the tips or not. In my opinion, rounded tips make more reliable welding points than completely flat ones, no wonder K-weld uses rounded tips.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Great points ! Thank you 😊

[@neironasgautamas654]

Docreate is best one ever i have same one it was factory defect but works perfect super stront fast fun to use for money only thing i can reconend 😊

[@Jpilgrim30]

You should try hitting the same spot 2 or 3 times with the weaker spot welders and see if that does any better. Also keep the tips as close together as possible.

[@WDZaphod]

Thanks for the test. I am looking for a device to weld batteries for drones, and honestly I wouldn't trust any of this little welders. I teared apart some industrial welded battery packs, and man, they had weld spots. It ripped apart the nickel strip, the weld spot was way stronger. If a spot welder cannot archive this, I will stay with my soldering iron. There is no space for mistakes when flying.

[@pencilme1n]

Would you recommend a lab DC variable voltage and current power supply?

[@RJLake]

hey....what's the ring you are wearing?

[@Funermen]

This video was quite a bit helpful for someone like me who has been slowly learning everything they can about electrical in general. Strange to think that 3yrs ago before I joined the ebike world i barely knew anything and now im learning about spot welders. A few notes I'm wondering about. The two-handed welders, is there anything stopping a person from just 3d printing a holder to make them 1 handed? Is there anything you would change about your main setup. I would definitely be interested to learn more about soldering, thats where i have learned most of my electrical over the years and have even managed to build my own 12v electrical harness for my electric bike. Cant wait to see what else you have in store!

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Thank you for watching ! Some great questions here; Yes, people 3D Print parts that make a 2 hand unit become a one hand unit, but the best units have springs inside that allow both sides to apply equal pressure, that is the tough part when designing a good unit. Otherwise you think you're applying equal pressure but one electrode is touching and the other one might not even be touching or is barely touching, which ends up blowing through the material! Honestly I think our setup is pretty solid now and I don't have any complaints about it , although it would be pretty cool to get a unit that allows you to be hands free, I've seen them on the market and the one we were using was pretty good but slightly too crude to be really effective. Its important to have easily replaceable copper ends because they do burn up over time, that was our issue. We definitely intend to do a good soldering video or two, solder is all about 3 things , a hot iron, flux, and low melt point solder. If you're missing any of those three it is very hard to solder, but with those 3 its very easy. Thanks for watching!!

[@timlauck5206]

Can you put that promised link for the ali-express welding probe solution.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

My bad! Thanks for pointing that out! www.aliexpress.com/item/33051004051.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.5.177e1802KiYL9A

[@SvetoslavStefanovS]

Hey, a useful video. Thank you for it!

[@antibrevity]

Thank you. I wish that you wouldn't put the music in your videos or at least mute it when there's narration, but I still appreciate the comparison.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Pinned comment

[@mikejosef2470]

Is there any benefit to spot welding nickel to copper before welding the combo to the battery?

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Copper has 5X current flow compared to nickel , generally only used in high current applications 👌

[@neironasgautamas654]

Doctreate i use around 30 40level and welds only came out with pliers it welds hard i think i use 0.15mm for that and cant rip it off

[@mikejosef2470]

Given that every commercial battery I've ever owned, all power tool batteries, cannot be pulled apart without tearing the strip unless you're very lucky, I would consider any weld that can be separated without using pliers and without either tearing the strip, or at least with great difficulty, to be a failure. A bike battery is subject to huge vibrations and generally rough treatment, including crashes. A separated weld with a cell that is free to rotate and short could easily mean disaster, with total loss of the entire battery and possibly the bike itself. Please correct me if you think that is too harsh.

[@Eden_M]

Not harsh at all! K-weld is what I'm buying next.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Yes , we like to weld so that it has to be torn off. The KWeld and Cap welder can handle that no problem 👌

[@Eden_M]

@@ElectricBikeLaboratory I received it yesterday, but no cap bank unfortunately, I tried it with old Li-Po's they don't pack a punch, tomorrow morning first thing I do is buy a 12v 100A AGM battery!

[@markpryce3282]

Very timely video, been using the kerpu but your right other than .1-1.3 plated it doesn't work. I'm building two 52v packs with 21700 50e and 40t batteries and had a feeling it wasn't the right welder. Thanks again for the video. Just a quick question why do people not just use copper directly? Is the nickel required for the weld?

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Thanks for the comment ! Copper has such low resistance that generally it just absorbs the heat and spreads it out everywhere , it can be welded directly belut requires basically a modified tig welder. Nickel ends up melting the copper so it is needed to facilitate the weld in the copper nickel sandwich. Even the KWeld on basically max will not weld copper on its own

[@erwindeboer6180]

why the musical torture?

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Re-uploaded

[@rd355]

good stuff

[@issaml.4189]

Great video keep up 🌱

[@one2abuse]

An "out dent"? I think you mean convex. Oppose to an "in dent" or concave?

[@marcfruchtman9473]

Interesting topic. (Tho not a fan of the background music so just couldn't listen to that for 40 mins).Edit: O, there's a version without it... will try that one).

[@hisforhack]

Have you ever consider renting out the "DoCreate 3000F Capacitor Spot Welder" or similar welder to DIYers for battery repair, You would need a deposit, cost of consumables ie welding tips, rental fee, it Could be a cost affective option for small projects. just a thought.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Great idea!!

[@CrazyChinese]

BIRFC.... Board and 60c 3s Lipo Best Bang for your Buck....

[@zsebi696]

please use a battery holder.

[@neironasgautamas654]

Docriate say u can do 10k welds till its breake i use 4 welds so it cant go bad it means u can spot weld only 2500cells for 100-150e ye all ok i tried weld fuse wired but all it do is explode so i just spot weld - side and put small dot of solder on +side with fuses 😅

[@krisgonzo2904]

Thats not a pass! thats a weak ass welds, good welds should not come off when you tear them off with your hand without using pliers!

[@MrLWFred]

What about the Portable foot peddle 8000w spot welder on AliExpress? Have you seen that one or familiar with it?

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Not familiar with it but I believe it is the same make as the capacitor style one that we used

[@-Gunnarsson-]

muted the sound. Much more relaxing

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

We have a version without music see pinned comment 👌

[@ericklein5097]

There is no huge bank of capacitors inside the cap based welders. Every model I've seen online uses ultracapacitors and typically they use 2000F to 3000F capacitors...now the quality of those caps varies widely. The sub $100 ones likely have used caps in them so the internal resistance of the caps is significantly higher. Resistance Spot Welding is 100% about resistance. You can use an AC IR milliohm meter like the RC3563 or YR1035+ to take measurements to help you build a powerful welder but remember DC IR is NOT the same as AC IR. DC IR is typically 50% to 100% more than AC IR. Between your power source, welding circuit (mosfets), cabling and electrodes you want somewhere in the single digit milliohm range to weld 0.15mm or 0.20mm pure nickel. The simplest upgrade someone can make to an off the shelf spot welder is to use a thicker gauge of silicone insulated wire for the cables/electrodes. Keep in mind that using cables that are TOO large (the kWeld has a section on this in their manual) can cause too much inductance and blow up your welding circuit. Also keep in mind pure copper is not the most ideal alloy for spot welding nickel to steel cans. There's websites with this info but aluminum copper alloys are usually what is used in this application. The built in Lipo style welders are convenient but you never really know what you're getting inside the box....and the RC Lipo world is full of absolute bullshit C ratings....100C...200C...all bullshit. Nothing out there is over 50C and the best of the best Lipos are 30C to 40C typically. 25C is pretty standard for your average "100C" rated Lipo. The fact that you have to discharge the Lipo to storage voltage (3.85V'ish) every time you go to store the unit for more than a day or two means its a lot of extra work and you'll likely forget. I rarely see these lasting longer than a year. Look for one that advertises having a USB output for charging a phone or something. Use that as a discharge port so you don't have to open up the case the Lipo is in. Stupid feature that actually has a necessary alternative function. High power LiFePO4 and LTO packs are going to be the best long term power sources besides super capacitors and ultra capacitors. Used Headways from BatteryHookup.com are cheap and if you buy enough for a 3S2P or 4S2P pack you'll get enough power to do 0.20mm nickel so long as the PCB you match it with has good mosfets. Do some research on the mosfets on the PCB you are looking at or buy one of the DIY mosfet boards on Aliexpress and some copper bar stock and build a beast of a fet board using IRL40SC228's or something similar. I can link all the Aliexpress components necessary to build your own spot welder that will outperform a kWeld for about $100 plus a $100 battery.

[@shaunmorrissey7313]

I really wanted to watch this but that backgroung music made it unwatchable.

[@frankpitochelli6786]

It looks like you're holding the probes too close and a bit more current would be what the doctor ordered.... Nice video.

[@klotzey]

hey! could you try welding silver (sterling) with these? :D

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

If only I had any sterling silver to try out!

[@paulmryglod4802]

I have an orange and blue capacitor welder and it will kinda sorta weld a sandwich of .2 copper and .15 nickle. Not well enough for me to be confident in using that method. It does a decent job of .15 steel on .2 copper, but i didn't want my pack to have steel near the coast.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Hey @paulmryglod4802 , you've been selected as our winner for the 2K Subscriber Giveaway. Send us a message at [e-mail] to claim your prize!

[@paulmryglod4802]

@@ElectricBikeLaboratory woah! That's awesome!

[@tomaszradomski9008]

Mate can i ask you. Did you plug that pen to second spotwelder? Cuz i see the cable is unplugged. How it can weld if its unpluged? Did that spotwelder detecting short circuit?

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

It detects when both probes are contacting the surface, and then does a delay before the weld, so no switch needed

[@johnclarke6647]

You don’t run DC voltage through a transformer - only AC.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Good point

[@1DumbSquirrel]

you sure shake a lot. Is that from alcohol

[@maxentropy7596]

I notice that you used a 12 Volt battery in one of your test cases. I am curious how you got 800-1500 Amps from a 650 CCA 12 volt battery. Thanks.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

I'm guessing that CCA refers to the amount of current that can be pulled for a few seconds, whereas the spot welder pulls only for a few MS , and can pull a much higher load. When we calibrate the KWeld it shows us what its able to draw from the battery, normally in the 1200A range You can check the KWeld documentation for more info

[@maxentropy7596]

@@ElectricBikeLaboratory thanks

[@73Datsun180B]

Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) is what a car battery can continuously have drawn from it until it is flat without exploding. Batteries in general can have very large amps drawn from them for a few milliseconds

[@UpInSmoke54]

I bought the Sequre SQ-SW1 2 years ago and will NEVER buy from them again!!

[@neironasgautamas654]

If u rip it with fingers its bad super bad weld good weld u cant do thats IF U PULL OUT WITH FINGERS ITS BADDDD WELD!!!

[@stupidsecuritykeyiforgot7499]

The 12v one you should hook a 12v server power supply to it, that should do about 50A lol

[@AUXITOLED]

Great review, Bro. Can we invite you to do a review on our product? We have reached out to you.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Thank you , what is the product ?

[@ImaginaPower]

You should clean your shop more often !! Look at the electronics, your lungs look the same!

[@Touwtje]

omfg How do I turn off the music?!??

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

It has been re-uploaded, see the first pinned comment

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

See first pinned comment

[@megeezer69]

good video, but cut the background sound, it's extremely annoying & repetitive

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Check pinned comment

[@megeezer69]

Good video, but as already stated, git rid of that repetitive music. I now have a brain ache !

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Re-uploaded

[@stickmenwithrayguns]

Good content, but what's the point of this annoying music on a 40 min video? :(

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

See first pinned comment, it has been re-uploaded without music

[@repairman2be250]

I stopped watching after minutes, because of the background music.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

It has been re-uploaded, see first pinned comment

[@neironasgautamas654]

As i say its worst then its came out like that then u make bike pack u never want that connection NEVER EVER u will ride on forest and all welds will just came out atvsame day

[@o.m.2188]

Please, stop using background music at all. My ears started bleeding already and I only made it half thru the video .. Made it finally thru without getting a sudden hearing loss ;-) So the conclusion is, either use a spotwelder based on 3000F supercaps or one that uses car batteries with an Amp rating of at least 300, 350Amps.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Pinned comment

[@texkarlitoes]

music needs more cowbell

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Pinned comment

[@Vladdalv51]

You have no idea, how to weld, 90 degrees is not a good idea, 45 degrees is good for welding.

[@kevinc7252]

DUDE where are your SAFETY GLASSES>!!!!!!!! BAD BOY

[@neironasgautamas654]

Awithz that small crap is useless its not holding its failed badly

[@grebz]

Whats with the horrible overly loud music!?

[@grebz]

The video is really useful, but Christ does that get annoying. You have to really want to watch this video

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

See pinned comment

[@aaronbinder6903]

I CAN'T TAKE IT!! That stupid music is killing me! Great video but I couldn't watch anymore.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Pinned comment

[@rickyemmirt4120]

2 months late i only won the knowledge of what spot welder to get 😢

[@nocandopdx]

Did you actually go back and try to sit through your own video with this garbage music playing the entire time.

[@jameskim62]

YOU NEED TO LIGHTLY SAND/ SWIPE ALCOHOL THE AREA YOU ARE SPOT-WELDING.....

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

Good tip!

[@winkydee]

You know what I liked best about this video? Those 2 batteries being built looked very familiar!😅

[@antikdeela5625]

I returned the AwithZ unit and bought the purple unit with a small car battery. excellent results.

[@bladongarland8635]

Keep up the work, this video was very helpful