Building very high end speaker crossovers part 1

[@DavidPerez-de4ib]

I don’t know electronics, and I really don’t feel like foregoing for rare materials to build components. It’s just that I can tell when the sound is not pure. And I really want to listen to my music that way. So here I am. Watching you. Gabby. You make a lot of sense, the details that you include are very helpful. Very very helpful. I don’t often hear such specific cause and effect style description even though I search for tips like these specifically. Almost like hearing your program is phantasmal. Like I’m not supposed to receive the simplified version of the break down. You’re the man.

[@alphaplus4162]

Very impressive work.

[@adrianrainbow4106]

Really inspirational, thank you. I love the philosophy of making what's normally hidden, a feature.

[@andreimj]

Hi Gabby, I want to thank you for all the information that you carefully selected to pass for your viewers. I am currently planning to build my first hi-fi system. The journey is absolutely amazing and rewarding. I was thinking to buy the speaker kit from GR-research and build my own amp, dac, and streamer. I am learning so much from you, as I;m a student and i can't afford to pay thousands on each component.

[@Gabster1]

Thank you it is a rewarding Journey Good luck and enjoy it

[@noahedward8328]

Hi Gabby, thanks alot for this huge information. I'm working on a project and I'll like to partner with your company. I'll give you details of the kind of specification of speakers and sub woofers I'll be needing crossover for. Please can I get you email address or a phone contact so we could talk more .

[@K03sport]

thought that was a tool box sitting on the floor behind you before I realized that it was the crossover...that thing is huge. it almost needs its own wall mount or plexi box.

[@Gabster1]

It’s a big one for sure! But better out then in as Shrek would say 😀

[@andrewandrosow4797]

Good work! To decrease size of an inductor we can use ferrite road.The size of a coil without a road is quite big.

[@carlosmante]

ferrite rod.

[@roofermarc1]

You're not lying. Some of these caps are very expensive could be 10,000 if you want the best crossovers. We have to find an alternative that works best with our own finances.

[@dwayneyoung9139]

I need 2 of these to buy please

[@Gabster1]

Every speaker is different you have to build it and test it

[@lgyqchen5074]

I have a pair of Pioneer CS-99A with a very complicatedly designed crossover, however its bass is weak, while the mid to high are too hard. I also have another a pair Technics SB_X500A with a much simpler crossover, but its bass is much stronger than the CS-99A, and its mid to high are very much warm and comfort. Its bass is even stronger than the Pioneer HPM-100.

[@deanhalleck5738]

Hi Gabby, We love you speaker design, Thank You! - So exciting that you are documenting your build to help others , so few people show these kinds of examples to help others learn. - I really like you hidden wires in the crossovers - very good idea! - Thank you so much for the crossover schematic! , - It would be so helpful if you can give a list Please ? . . . - to show which parts you used , - ( example only), - C1 - .0uF Miflex copper - C2 - 2uF MBGO - L4 - 0.62mH copper/wax jensen , ..... ..... etc . . . - ( it's hard to read them all in video, thank you) ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- - here is a suggestion for you maybe to look into down the road - this is by another speaker builder , I can let you know who if you want to know latter ... - " After years of putting up with Duelund resistors and their terrible customer care (Brand new ones arrive already broken… (and they do) - sorry… they won’t refund or replace them) I finally had enough and found my holy grail. They are made by Path Audio of Poland and they are even better than the Duelunds, but that is only part of the exciting news.".

[@Gabster1]

Here is the caps list a couple minor changes from the schematics 2 Miflex are 0.02 instead of 0.01 either is fine everything else is as per schematics To see the rest properly use a large screen computer pause the screen around 20:40 make sure you are watching in 4 k should be extremely clear hope that helps. C11 0.01 mfd Miflex Copper C7 + C4 0.02 mfd Miflex Copper C1 0.02 mfd Solen C5 10 mfd Solen (not critical as mostly bypassed by R1) C2 30 mfd MBGO C3,(C7 3x47) mfd Kemit C10 1.5 mfd Mundorf Mcap supreme C9 6.8 MFd Mundorf Mcap supreme L1 L2 L4 14 awg Goertz Copper Foil Inductors L3 Solen 10 awg 3.7mh I heard a lot about Path Audio resistors of Poland I will give them a try sometime. :)

[@joserodriguez-is3uj]

​@@Gabster1

[@joserodriguez-is3uj]

​@@Gabster1

[@brucetungsten5714]

Thanks for the info!

[@ravidevarakonda5668]

Hello Gabby,Really love all your Hifi DIY videos.I have a pair of vintage La Scala's and would like to upgrade the crossovers.I know you keeping mentioning the part specs and ratings in these videos but is their a cmprehensive listing of parts used that goes alongwith with the schematic. Thanks.

[@jean-pierreserret301]

Hi Gabby, nice video, quick question, I have a pair of Energy Cf-70 speakers that Im running through Yamaha Rx-v3900 im considering upgrading the crossover however not sure if its worth the expense or if i should just upgrade the speakers, your thoughts would be much appreciated. thanks

[@spagsketti]

I have built passive crossovers in the 90's. Not this nice though. back in the 90's the internet did not have info on building them. Once a year Car Audio magazine had a page that gave you the coil size vs what microfarad cap to use. it broke it down in 6db, 12db, 18db and so on. I love the giant red coil. It really makes the build.

[@Gabster1]

Thank You

[@dilbyjones]

love it

[@jimbanville]

Baffle shape is like a toilet seat. Once u see it u can’t unsee it.

[@ericschulze5641]

Help ! I made a 3 way first order network that I love, sounds great 👍 I can't find info on making it a second order, is there a formula ? Can I keep the first order and add caps and coils for a faster cut off ? My home made speakers are better than most store bought but nowhere near the level of yours, I used Jantzen 16ga.coils and Jantzen caps, so the xovers cost me around $80 each again better than most production, but not on the level of yours, just so you know what my budget is/ what type components I'll be using

[@Gabster1]

Yes you can add to it to make it second order But I would measure before and after to make sure you are getting a better effect just be careful as often the phase will shift and May need to reverse the polarity on the second driver The frequency response around the cutoff frequency should not have a bump or null

[@ericschulze5641]

@Gabster if I know my the values of my existing inductors and caps how do I find the value for the caps and coils to make it a second order ? .

[@Blum_Bl]

Молодец парень

[@charmanrecordings1186]

thanks for your video! why didn't you just build an analog active crossover instead of using a bad quality dsp?

[@Gabster1]

Not a bad idea maybe another build

[@charmanrecordings1186]

@ I would love to watch that !

[@bobbystefano]

Hi, what is R4 doing on low woofer?

[@ianhames2465]

the caps in parallel with t4 is a Zobel Network. Plenty of info about it on the web.

[@tobyking4172]

Hi Gabby, could you please tell me what you used or recommend a test mic and software for your speaker building and testing

[@Gabster1]

I and many others use Rew a free and excellent software www.roomeqwizard.com/ and I use a dayton audio Umm6 calibrated Mic

[@Cakebattered]

Vituixcad is a free and powerful tool for crossover design after measuring with REW.

[@vicg5323]

Which part is most and least important for a hi end speaker? The driver, the box or the crossover parts?

[@Gabster1]

They are all important but if you want a order it would be Driver, Box, Crossover

[@gregvisioninfosoft]

When you say 'time aligned' i assume that means when not using a crossover. So say to 'time align' the woofer with the midrange, at a crossover frequency of 500 hz - I assume you sent a 500 hz signal to both drivers and put a near field mics in front of each with a baffle separating the mics. Then adjust front to back one of the drivers until the oscilloscope shows both mics in phase. Is this the process? And even if one does this. after they connect the drivers to the 2nd order passive crossover, we understand there will be a 180 degree phase shift that will take place at the crossover frequency of 500 hz. Which we can not do anything about. as that is the nature of how passive crossovers work. Is there any type of crossover solution that maintains phase between all drivers throughout the full audio frequency range? If not, isnt phase shift a serious problem in audio reproduction?

[@Gabster1]

This is an excellent comment you summarized in a small paragraph the biggest challenges in speaker and crossover design I really like what you said. Then you add a second speaker and hope the stereo pair are not going to have phase shift Then you put them in a room and hope that the bouncing frequencies are not canceling each other

[@adamanalogowy4208]

Please let me know what model of microphone you used during the measurements?

[@Gabster1]

amzn.to/3jhh4Eo

[@megawatt9420]

Hi Gabby! Why do you bypass capacitors and resistors with additional miflex capacitors?

[@Gabster1]

With big capacitors the high end ones cost a fortune So by bypassing a medium grade capacitor with a small high end one one it improves the overall capacitor so you save money yet still get a great sound

[@megawatt9420]

@@Gabster1 I understood perfectly, thank you 👍 Do you have a link to research on this phenomenon?

[@ronchinoy]

Hi Gabby from India. Im struggling with a cross over for a Eminence PSD2002 Comp Driver. Any tips to pick up the dip from 15K to 20K.

[@bobbystefano]

where did you get the big air coil> What value is it? Crossover points?

[@Gabster1]

Solen.ca 3.7mh R4 eases the C6 effect and prevents the impedance from dipping to low

[@bobbystefano]

@@Gabster1 thanks-trying find on their site-what were you crossover points?

[@burgie4241]

Gabby - Just discovered your channel-- I'm very impressed with your speakers -- they are truly an work of art. I have several questions about your crossover schematic-- You said this is a second order design -- It appears to me that the high pass section is 3rd order -- if not, what is the function of the 10uf cap (C8)? I see you use bypass capacitors on the padding resistors at the input of both the high and band pass sections -- Is this to boost the output at the high end of each driver's range? Also, you are using bypass capacitors (.01uf) on many of the filter capacitors -- even on the capacitor in the low pass section, but you didn't use one on the 10uf cap previously mentioned (C8) in the high pass section-- why not? Also, you show a resistor (R4) in series with the filter capacitors in the low pass section-- what is the function of that resistor? You give a value of 330m-- does that mean milliohms? If so, I've never seen a resistor used in a passive network with that low of a value. Also, in the band pass section why did you place L1 in the circuit before L2 which would be a more conventional placement -- or does it make any difference where they are situated?

[@jasombeeman1955]

What are u using to find out the waves of sound

[@Gabster1]

www.roomeqwizard.com/

[@Slim-man1977]

Nice ❤ but the B&W mids is not a super high-end driver..🤖

[@kevinchew2594]

Halo , Sir can i know where do you buy those good quality caps and speakers also ? Tq

[@Gabster1]

Parts connection, Solen, Madisound, ....

[@kevinchew2594]

Halo , SIR ! I am newbie in audio so can you teach how to design 2way 8ohm speaker crossover ? tq tq

[@luouns]

How long did they take to burn in?

[@samaku]

Is the big coil 4.0mh sir ?..its that pararell crosover or series croasover?

[@Gabster1]

Hi Sam 3.7mh you can see the schematics here with all the info you need kzbin.info/www/bejne/en64ZJauqNiYp6csi=WM3s4c8ljOmXwNT3&t=418

[@samaku]

@@Gabster1 thank you sir..

[@rogj2322]

What model 47uF capacitors did you use?

[@Gabster1]

These are Kemet from Mouser great value for Large film caps Ideal for Woofer section when you need large values and don't want to mortgage the house :)

[@garykarczewski6678]

Why not build seperate speaker no crossover and utilise external EQ?

[@danielh12345]

Hi there, I'm relatively new to DIY speaker building. I'm wondering if you could explain the difference between cheaper crossover parts vs more expensive. Just a general idea is fine. I don't quite understand, if the values are the same on both the cheap and expensive components the outcome should be the same right? Bear in mind I'm not very knowledgeable about the electrical parts yet, I'm just trying to understand why some advocate for super expensive components while others say it doesn't matter? I could be missing some simple info that makes my question stupid, but if that's the case I'd still like to know haha. Is the percentage listed on the components that the differing factor for cheap vs expensive components? If that's the case, does matching cheap components that measure the same have the same outcome of expensive components? Thank you gab! Edit: I've just built cheap kits, no designing yet but maybe it could be fun at some point to try, but I don't really understand enough yet haha

[@Gabster1]

Hi Daniel When sound passes through inductors Capacitors and Resistors it changes For inductors the thicker they are the less loss in signal despite having the same inductance thicker wire has a lower resistance so your woofer will have more bass as there is less loss. For capacitors sound is far better with film capacitors and the better the quality the better the sound despite having the same value Similar effect with resistors Hope that helps

[@danielh12345]

@Gabster1 thank you for your quick response, it does clarify things! It makes sense now!

[@ClassifiedBrief]

You should have done path audio resistors... Quite a big improvement over the ones you used... But good build. Also your scale on sweeps make it 5db vs 10. Your waterfall z axis also is large time domain should be smaller to show true scale

[@Gabster1]

Thanks for the suggestion I never tried the path audio resistors before I will give them a try may be do a simple blind test setup.

[@ClassifiedBrief]

@@Gabster1 would love to see it! They are a huge improvement quite shocking even over the quality ones you used

[@IDontExist14]

bro great vids you post and you know I follow ur channel , I just would like to say that do a light room treatment with good absorbing woods , if u want my help in accustics , mainly I set up and make ht systems for people , mostly I make amps and speakers , THERE is only one channel that is right about acoustics is acoustic fields and you can use any activated carbon if u want I can send u some pics of my work , I have around 400kgs of activated charcoal on the walls of my 2 channel listening room , my room is special because all the walls are covered by very high quality of pine that is instrument quality as I regularly go to wood lumber yard where fresh lumber is available , u can say I find 2,3 pieces that are special in a pile sometimes u find more depends on pattern its no big deal just read up on how instrument people choose wood , I wish I could afford mahogany

[@jarkkokinnunen9963]

Any pictures of that room? Sounds interesting

[@IDontExist14]

@@jarkkokinnunen9963 share ur email , please don't write it normally just avoid at the rate symbol and have space in between as well ,if there is link or email written the comment doesn't get posted for others and they can't see it

[@jarkkokinnunen9963]

@@IDontExist14 Ill edit my email out after you have sent the photo, thanks!

[@IDontExist14]

@@jarkkokinnunen9963 brother where to send the pic I need an email to send it to .if u can email me and I will reply

[@IDontExist14]

@@jarkkokinnunen9963 I tried to send them , but u don't wanna give me a simple email address , then fine ur loss not mine

[@dedskin1]

digital crossover has nothing to do with money , works on transistors , cheap caps , or even microprocessors , so no , there is no high quality electronic crossover , like there is no high quality Intel i5 cpu , its a cpu , one thing electronic crossover does suffer from is elevated noise , about 100db worst case , 110db usual , while passive can go 120db , better yes , but humans can not hear past 30db in music , so if you cant hear the noise flor its all ok , while on the other side passive does impact the sound , Audiophiles would say its better , because its less precise , so it sounds mushy , and some like that , do not like 12db per octave or 24db per octave precise cuts , it does sound a bit harsher , but its more precise , it is better . So to each his own , all i want to say is that there is no high quality electronic crossover , no , parts are simple OP AMPs , electrolytes , and high precision resistors , nothing really that is high end or expensive .

[@wric01]

Solder sucks. Crimp that post. And plumber tape to separate that non copper nut from touching copper post.

[@СергейКернис]

На СЧ и на НЧ лучше катушки мотать литцендратом , они лучше ведут себя на этих частотах . А на НЧ желательно сделать две катушки одна над другой и отдаляя или сдвигая катушки можно регулировать в больших пределах индуктивность самих катушек в довольно приличных пределах .