Bus Wars (Facing South, 1987)

Facing South documentary on the bus wars in Southern England & the Isle of Wight. Produced by TVS. The documentary highlights the competition between Southampton City Bus and Solent Blue Line, Southern Vectis and Gange's Minicoaches on the Isle of Wight, and other bus operators in the south after deregulation and privatisation of the National Bus Company.
I've also made a shorter cut of just the Isle of Wight bits here: • Bus Wars: Isle of Wigh...
00:00 Introduction
02:48 Southampton City Bus vs. Solent Blue Line
10:33 Eastern National vs TV Taxis (Southend)
11:50 Aggressive driving in Southampton
13:55 Southern Vectis vs. Gange Bus (Isle of Wight)
17:21 Southern Vectis Mainland Expansion
18:43 Southampton Market Share
24:02 Future of Buses
24:50 Credits

[@superbracey]

Not sure why I chose to sit through this 36 years after it was filmed (mainly to see the old buses I suppose), but it was very interesting.

[@Highland_Moo]

Same here - I’m 45 and live in a wee village in the Scottish highlands. My school was Plockton High School and went there on old ratty double decker buses - bombing along on single track roads in all weathers was brilliant!

[@dawiser1]

Unforeseen consequences of deregulation. Cut-throat competition, aggressive behaviour and poor employment conditions for workers

[@dixon9983]

It wasn't unforeseen, the government knew exactly what they were doing. They wanted to privatise the service and cut working conditions and pay in the industry because there were millions of pounds in subsidies being paid to regulated bus companies under the old regime. Between the 1930s and 1986 once you had a licence to operate a route you could object to competitors running on the same roads. Competition was not allowed but as car use increased it became harder to run buses at a profit. Nowadays bus fares are proportionally more expensive than back then and many routes especially in rural areas have been abandoned.

[@WilliamSmith-mx6ze]

@@dixon9983 Cut-throat competition came about because the old subsidised bus companies didn't like giving up their passengers to upstart newcomers. In Britain we have this weird snobbish deference to authority where we like bus companies going for 80 years and protected because they were in the NBC but we don't like new boys providing a better service, oh god they may have gone to the wrong school, we can't have that.

[@davidmcnally4773]

I was a driver in those days ,drivers lost all benefits they had before deregulation,

[@TheWacoKid1963]

Jump forward 30+ years and the whole country has four major operators, Stagecoach, Go-Ahead, Arriva and First bus and none of competition that deregulation was meant to give. I no longer travel because the fares are now a rip off.

[@apt155]

It’s time to put buses back in local authority control

[@alexbonham2361]

That's Tory dream they always hate common person.

[@olivermansfield8341]

Blue line now exists as blue star, its the biggest operator in Southampton, also there's lots of independent operators still

[@succulent951]

There are good, friendly, small operators. I sympathise and agree with limiting the big boys though

[@succulent951]

@@apt155 authority control? no. make local authorities give more support to local operators? yea

[@doveronefoxtrot4417]

It was the end of the road for bus services in this country. So many rural services have been lost as a service now becomes a business.

[@1100HondaCB]

Back in 1990 we had 16 seater Transits in favour of former Leyland Atlanteans. I started senior school in 1992 and had to catch those 16 seaters to and from school and what joys they were as they often were filled to capacity after as little as a few stops. Getting to school wasn't a problem as I lived at the start of the route, but getting home was a nightmare as I often had to wait for three buses to pass as they were often full and with that came punch ups amongst other school kids trying to squeeze on. Then in 1994 a rival firm, using mk1 Leyland Nationals started to compete on the same route and getting home was no longer a problem, nor was getting a seat. Then in late 1995, First Bus bought out both firms and by early 1996 all the Transits disappeared and sadly come mid 1996, most of the early mk1 Nationals disappeared, although they were replaced by mk2 Nationals and then later next year, more mk1s went and were replaced by Dennis Darts and Wright Volvo B10BLEs with the odd few mk1s remaining for the next couple of years thereafter.

[@zeroone7867]

Came for the bus wars, stayed for the intro.

[@SAFC_Ted]

7:40 bluestar the modern day version of Solent blue line recently named a bus after him because of his passing

[@petercotton89]

The deregulation of buses was, long term an absolute disaster for everyone involved. Drivers has terms and wages cut. Customers on non profitable route lost their services. And municipal companies who heavily invested in new fleets and drivers benefits ended up going bust.

[@petercotton89]

@Nichen Fauster Rubbish. Case in point the East Coast Railway Line (or LNER) has been ran by the government for years now due to private companies being unable to run the service in accordance with their franchise agreements. The service is excellent, often rated as the best train company on our network. And prices haven’t changed.

[@DoktorLorenz]

Like most public utilities they sold public assets on the cheap, then the newly privaised companies cut terms & conditions to stay in business. The more successful ones buy out the smaller ones and eventually we get a few big monopolies with no real competition and the bosses and shareholders cream all the profits and feck all goes back down the chain, let those bottom feeding plebs eat gruel and keep the money at the top to the people who really deserve it.

[@mannydekhar-antipov9954]

@@petercotton89 The DFT has the upper hand of the railway franchises, and they specify absurdly high payouts for any operator wishing to run the East Coast franchise, which is why GNER, National Express and Virgin pulled out as they couldn't make repayments. People think railways are privately run but in reality it's in all but the name.

[@TheZacDJ]

Excellent programme, thank you so, so much for uploading/sharing: it is very much appreciated. Of course, this programme dates from a time when we still had Local Independent Television in the UK. Sadly, that is no longer the case. ITV in the 21stC is just lightweight fluff; soaps, quizes, and chat shows. That 1990 Act has a lot to answer for. A lot. Meridian started with lofty ideas of 'serving the South, SouthEast & Thames Valley. It very quickly turned into serving just its shareholders, by cutting and cutting and cutting. Within a few years it had quietly negotiated a substantial reduction in its financial franchise fee to the ITC, before starting the downfall of Local ITV by purchasing Anglia TV. Almost immediately the cutting started there as well, by moving Anglia Master Control and Playout to Southampton. Always found it weird when walking round the former TVS So'ton Studios, and seeing 'Anglia Control Room' on one of the Cons... And it wouldn't be too long before Carlton 'TV' (it was alleged by some that Carlton ran a TV Network, I think that it was a scurrilous rumour!), and Granada knocked all the Dominos over and purchased every Franchise barring Scotland. They even got hold of Channel Television eventually. Sorry, rant over folks. Got a bit carried away there. It just rankles a bit. Come back TVS - all is forgiven. TV South made some mistakes, no denying, but they made great programmes, and showed a real commitment to the Region throughout their tenure. 'Perchance it is not dead, but only sleepeth' ....well, one can hope and dream. Best Wishes, & Thanjs Again, You brought back some lovely memories there, my friend. Zac. Zac

[@vincitveritas3872]

I used to get exact change buses as a sixteen year old. I made sure I had the correct fare night before. It's not difficult.

[@nowthen3731]

deregulation screwed up bus industry...poor poor conditions 4 driver & crew...

[@YoloMenace001]

Not in Nottingham. In my city,the bus war still exists when back in 1983 there was 2:Nottingham Omnibusses and Nottingham City Transport where NCT was a small company and defeated NOB and then around the early 2000s was challenged by Trent Barton and then by Nottinghamshire County Council Fleet so the second bus war that has 3 companies battling each other is in Nottingham and that in itself means that the longest bus war is Nottingham

[@tonyhancock3912]

If no one else could help and they could find them, Gange Buses should have hired The A-Team

[@NSMerryweather4771]

FirstBus are pulling out of Southampton. It's only taken about 35 years but Solent won the war!

[@themadcoachman]

First never recovered its losses from the Covid lockdowns

[@Mgameing123]

Southampton better get used to the monopoly!

[@JC-il6ps]

Still a fascinating watch and still quite relevant. Having grown up in Poole n Bournemouth in the 2000's, I'm well used to having a choice 2, sometimes 3 (when Shamrock buses still existed) bus companies to travel on for various routes. Must admit, I've always preferred and tried to travel with Wilts and Dorset (now Morebus) over Bournemouth Yellow Buses.

[@nitrosilvia]

Thanks for uploading

[@lenniet]

Another disaterous idea from Thatcher's government!

[@Alfasudparts]

Agree with Keith Jones, one bus company early on is paid a million a year by the government ie taxpayers to run the service so across the country that’s a lot of billions to pay for a service, councils still subsidise routes to help people but it costs you snd me a hell of a lot less in tax, was a bus driver for many years so saw the good and bad over the argument who should pay for it

[@succulent951]

Thatcher's a piece of shit, don't get me wrong, but at the very least localising control of bus services is a good idea. Something *does* need to be done about the big cowboys with centralised control, very lacklustre maintenance (maybe since they feel they can just as easily replace?) disconnection from passengers and who deploy aggressive bullying tactics aka Stagecoach, Arriva, First, Rotala etc. What's striking about TfL buses is how basic they are!!

[@Mgameing123]

@@Alfasudparts Taxes should pay for it! It gets covered by the economical benefits of a bus service.

[@terri6854]

One bus keeps 20 cars of the road which benefits car drivers. Taxpayers also have family members who benefit from buses.

[@johnathandaviddunster38]

Everyone in the bus game seemed to have bad haircuts

[@jacksugden8190]

Did you know that Solent Blue Line Ltd trades primarily under the name Bluestar?, and it’s still going strong in South Hampshire, and formed in 1987.

[@dglcomputers1498]

and have finally managed to get rid of the successor to Southampton Citybus (First City Red), winning and retaining the Uni contracts was part of this.

[@Mgameing123]

@@dglcomputers1498 And now service went shit!

[@newforestpixie5297]

I do remember for 6 months during the early / mid 1980s , the folk of villages in SW New Forest could catch a Marchwood Motorways bus throughout the evening to the glorious Friday & Saturday Lymington nightlife . Wilts & Dorset would traditionally have ceased around 19:00 in any direction for most villages so for once at least you could socialise or drink yourself silly or do both - so long as you were back at the High St Bus Station or route by 22:30 , the last one westwards. It lasted for about 6 months but it sure beat falling off your bike or paying for Taxis for a while but as for the companies & their employees , I wasn’t bothered because I was a young hedonist 😎

[@u.k.trainandbusvids]

Southampton Citybus became First and Solent Blue Line became BlueStar part of Go-Ahead Group I’ve photographed some ex BlueStar vehicles in the past

[@royjeffs6538]

Bring back Blakey and Reg!

[@foothand1595]

Bring back Stan aswell

[@1ns4ne1d10t]

It's weird how bus generations carry on. My father was good pals with Dougie McColl 30 years ago on Solent bus services. 30 years later I'm good pals with Dougies son Jamie McColl. And we all live in the same road!

[@joshuahill6153]

New Zealand had a very intresting system. Operators could operate any commercial routes they deemed profitable and then the council picked up what they didn't deem applicable. This caused spending to go up and up and patronage to stay the same.

[@newforestpixie5297]

That must be your relatives when they were battling Vectis ! 🐢

[@Keithbarber]

The situation did get ridiculous soon after deregulation but calmed down after a few years Fare wars did nobody any favours

[@leeroberts1192]

Wilts & Dorset got split a good few years ago into Salisbury Reds and Morebus (Poole, Bournemouth Christchurch, Wareham, Swanage area. Badgerline went many years ago. Yellow Buses ceased trading last year (Morebus took over a good few of their former routes)

[@YoloMenace001]

Nottingham still has a bus war

[@randomtransportguyx4397]

And always will

[@Jas-ym8dz]

A low cost bus operator was tried in London in 1988 although still part of London transport. It was a disaster and was wound up in 1990

[@johnrafferty8087]

I Remember being on national Express coaches from Heathrow to Ringwood I'm those days and remember loads of buses excluding RMs.

[@qwertyfn4450]

Back then it was small company’s now it’s the fight against 3big company’s ARRIVA. D&G. Stagecoach

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

I find the British bus industry extremely fascinating. In general, was deregulation eventually seen as a positive or a negative development? Maybe I'm wrong about this, but deregulation seems to be the opposite of the formation of NBC in the 1968-70 era. Also, with deregulation, I'm sure that a good number of unqualified or inadequate (especially in terms of safety) bus companies sprung up, only to disappear within a short period of time.

[@DarranGange]

+Jeffrey Ornstein Well all the companies must comply with the various safety and licensing requirements, which aren't exactly lax. In most cases it's the finances which are the downfall of many smaller firms these days (having a behemoth competitor doesn't help).

[@samwilson4870]

It depends on the area too. Nottingham has Trent Barton, Your Bus and Nottingham City Transport for the most part, and a few smaller ones. For me to reach some places, it's actually cheaper and easier to catch a bus to Beeston and then swap to a Your Bus then to get a Trent Bus from the city.

[@stuartaxon2898]

It decimated services in the countryside and prices increased a lot.

[@onlinefriend3889]

@@stuartaxon2898You can thank inflation and ENTCS for that…

[@Johnny-kt1tj]

Anyone know how much a scania solar was to buy back in the day ?

[@ShoegazingHammer74]

I well remember Badger Buses coming to Poole from the West Country, and the existing company Wilts & Dorset going apeshit and basically running buses covering every yard of road across the town. Felt like there was a bus-stop on every lamp-post for a while.

[@scratch6449]

Badgerline became First Bus and now First Group, a global concern with operations on virtually every continent

[@joe-vl3nd]

Happy days 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@Banan0307]

Well its over now...

[@TheRatlord74]

Only took 30 odd years. For me it is weird not seeing the red busses anymore.

[@theyoutubeguy1]

I think the system we have now is the best, where companies bid on routes.

[@eilidhmm]

That's... not how the system works, unless you mean in London - elsewhere you just go "I want to run/stop running a service." and there's bugger all anyone can do about it.

[@reynardbizzar5461]

I think that must be me driving the ‘ gangebuster’ at 15.46.

[@AL-rg8uo]

RIP Mr Chadwick

[@tonymcandrew4241]

I love bus fights

[@mistofoles]

The livery on the bus driving away from the camera @0:02 is very similar to that of the old Manchester buses.

[@dvidclapperton]

Those Southampton Citybuses look distictly ancient.

[@CosgroveNotts]

Gary Batchelor......you were naughty

[@BluestarFanOfficial]

Solent Blue line has now changed management and nee name to Bluestar owned by Go South Coast and Bluestar also owns Unilink all are owned by Go Ahead

[@arch9enius]

No sign of any Robin Hood Ford Transits yet? This must be before SBL ran the 47+48 as well.

[@johnathandaviddunster38]

I wonder if there were many odd passengers on the isle of wight??

[@tonymcandrew4241]

bus operator fights do entertainment me

[@mrwan7010]

I didn't know the Routemaster reached Southampton.

[@papanoel3999]

So it's 2023,who won. Blue or city bus.

[@MannyAntipov]

Solent Blue Line (later bought by Go Ahead and rebranded "Bluestar") won, with Southampton Citybus (bought by First and rebranded to Southampton CityRed) closing its doors on 18 February 2023.

[@Mgameing123]

Honestly if they wanted a private bus market. They needed to control what routes were registered. If the frequencies were justifiable etc.

[@onlinefriend3889]

The model of registering, modifying and cancelling bus routes was still kept, as bus companies still need to alert the Traffic Commissioner and local authorities of upcoming changes.

[@davidjones332]

This was a graphic illustration of what happens when ideology results in politicians interfering in something they don't understand. The bus industry was already fighting a rearguard action against growing car ownership and ineptly-designed urban sprawl and out-of-town shopping which was difficult to serve effectively; the last thing it needed was internecine warfare, and as a result not only were rural and even suburban bus routes virtually eliminated over vast areas of Britain, all chance of road-rail coordination was lost. 35 years on most bus routes are in the hands of three or four major operators who have bought everyone else out, and now another Tory government thinks we should have more buses to save the environment. Sickening.

[@johnathandaviddunster38]

Tories WOULDN'T be seen dead on buses

[@pmberry]

@@johnathandaviddunster38 Yet plenty of bus riders vote for them (and against their better interests).

[@iMatti00]

I guess people riding buses more should not happen, as long as you’re OK with more floods and bad weather events happening substantially more and more. As long as we have convenience for cars, I guess it’s OK. Our grandchildren will be fighting to eat, but hey, as long as we have convenience now.

[@sanchoodell6789]

A time when bus lanes were dominated by "Silkies" and "Kinnock Mobiles" !!

[@YoloMenace001]

In my city,Nottingham,the bus war still exists when back in 1983 there was 2:Nottingham Omnibusses and Nottingham City Transport where NCT was a small company and defeated NOB and then around the early 2000s was challenged by Trent Barton and then by Nottinghamshire County Council Fleet so the second bus war that has 3 companies battling each other is in Nottingham and that in itself means that the longest bus war is Nottingham

[@liam3284]

"it would have an unfair advantage", everything was about business owners, who cares about fitness for purpose, or the passengers.

[@doppelbanger5797]

It's like ice cream wars but without the ice cream and murders

[@ramblingman8992]

When they deregulated the buses in North Essex, one company dared to take on Eastern National on their Colchester to Braintree and Colchester to Chelmsford routes. EN simply cut their fares by 50% and the opposition disappeared after 3 months. Meanwhile, in Colchester, the Borough Transport buses, still owned and operated by thr Council lasted until 2000, when, due to the greed of the staff, the Council had enough of bus drivers constantly wanting higher wages (as if £11 an hour wasn't enough) so sold the lot to British Bus for £1.

[@northernblue1093]

Notable how many respondents demonstrated an ignorance of the ethos of competition by claiming to have been there first - it's simply not relevant.

[@CosgroveNotts]

5.38 not a bird puller

[@Littlealan1959]

Very Few Independent bus operators now most council run bus companies sold out to Big Groups when bus service were run by NBC Companies they were run for passengers not for making money for Shareholders who is to blame for decline of independent Operators Deregulation or Regulation

[@bonkeydollocks1879]

Allegro @2.02

[@reynardbizzar5461]

Gangebuster in action @ 15.00

[@mufc10529]

tv taxis got a tv in the bus

[@u.k.trainandbusvids]

Southern Vectis is a lovely company also I’ve photographed some ex vehicles of there’s

[@bulldog1066jpd]

Same thing happened to the taxi industry.... with companies like UBER saturating the place with cars

[@roobear78]

another tory "market competition" disaster same as there gas,electricity,train,phone etc etc all fecked now

[@MatthewExplores]

wouldn’t want to pressure test a new build now there such low quality in uk

[@rainyfeathers9148]

I'd avoid those buses like the plague, even if walking was the only option. If they're acting like that it probably wasn't even safe being a pedestrian

[@rainyfeathers9148]

Here in what has become 2020, me a reviled millennial will say; Driver only buses were a dumbass idea, a Clippy on every bus please!

[@randomtransportguyx4397]

If we had eclipse Geminis wit conductors that would be amazing as you have low floor easy access with the amazingness of the conductor

[@Clarencebeeks89]

Defensive driving! You are carrying the public ! Safety first ! Regardless wether you are in your lane !!! You can’t take people out !!

[@scratch6449]

The term “defensive driving” refers to pre judging a potential incident and driving to avoid the what-ifs and the maybes…

[@Clarencebeeks89]

@@scratch6449 EXACTLY!!so if someone is driving aggressively you be the bigger person & back off !

[@scratch6449]

@@Clarencebeeks89 “professional”?drivers are taught how to drive defensively - those that ignore that teaching give the rest of lorry drivers and bus drivers a bad name!!

[@Jimbo-gi7xn]

Driving is driving regardless of the vehicle... I drive buses lorries and vans and I drive every vehicle the same ..carrying passengers makes no difference

[@petemarr824]

Arriva and Stagecoach seemed to have taken over throughout england

[@adammoorby99]

Pete Marr Arriva, Stagecoach & First bus

[@jamesfrench7299]

All about competition when the argument favours their objectives but deep monopolists at heart and employ cartel tactics as consolation.

[@bonkeydollocks1879]

Looks like it's the 50s

[@jamesfrench7299]

Many of the buses were pretty much reworked 1950s designs built in the 70s.

[@bonkeydollocks1879]

@@jamesfrench7299 correct, it's the fashions, cars, buildings, signs, street furniture too that makes it look older

[@jamesfrench7299]

@@bonkeydollocks1879 It's the intervening years since 1987 that makes it look like 1955 in 2022.

[@bonkeydollocks1879]

@@jamesfrench7299 shut up, your not getting it, keep your opinions to your self but most of all, p*ss off OK.

[@jamesfrench7299]

@@bonkeydollocks1879 GGF 😀

[@alfiewhittaker3763]

city bus is automatically the best it has an RM

[@daithio.7378]

this train terminates here This footage must be like gold to yourself 👍.

[@alfiewhittaker3763]

yep also dont mind a fleetline too

[@daithio.7378]

this train terminates here If I was rich I buy you a fleetline, well I'd give you money to find these buses then I'd pay for them 😂😂👍👍 well at least we have an imagination 🚐🚎🚌🚋🚃🚟🚠🚌🚞🚈🚅🚄🚝🚉🚊🚇🚆🚂🚂🚂👍.

[@alfiewhittaker3763]

ooooooo ok thanks RT RM DMS and GS on the cards

[@daithio.7378]

this train terminates here No problem ,one phone call ☘👍.

[@dvidclapperton]

Bring back regulated bus services and provide through single and through return ticket options for multi mode journey and multiple bus journeys. How can with the trains you get a through single or through return tickets involving 3 trains each way, yet on the bus you can't do that as one way you need to buy single or return tickets when you board each bus you travel on one way?

[@succulent951]

don't think politicians running buses is a good idea tbh

[@Mgameing123]

@@succulent951 It is trust me. The UK will get alot more bus services.

[@mannydekhar-antipov9954]

I don't know if you've been on a bus company's website because most bus operators, as far as I'm aware, already offer day tickets, both for their own companies as well as for multiple companies as specified by a local authority. So regulating to bring about that isn't a strong argument.

[@alexbonham2361]

Now some area's don't have a bus service thanks theacher not

[@nielspemberton59]

Bus deregulation is wasteful competition, wasteful in fuel, and resources, confusing for passengers and potential users and inefficient in general. As an American living near Washington DC, I'm glad that the USA has not embraced this nonsense !

[@roobear78]

yeah because america leads the way in local public transport especially outside the north east! ironic an american lectures us about waste,yous lot are the most wasteful people on the planet!

[@Mgameing123]

The US really isn't the place to talk about good public transport.

[@onlinefriend3889]

But then look at Guildford, Brighton, Oxford. Multiple bus companies cooperating with each other and local authorities to increase passenger numbers. It’s only the mindset from bus managers that’s needed to do this. Glad that the 1980s/90s competitive mindset has gone.

[@Mgameing123]

@@onlinefriend3889 Its only the local authorities that are behind the cooperation.

[@mistofoles]

15 years old ?? I thought buses had to be mandatorily taken out of public service after 12 years?

[@parkfooty]

mistofoles no we still have 20/30 year old buses round here the newest bus they own came from Arriva when they merged and that is a 02 plate. We even still have a RM that runs twice a day with a conductor

[@eight-two]

No such rule or law. I used to drive buses 30 years old for one of the large groups.

[@allenwilliams1306]

A well-maintained bus should last 20 plus years.

[@MrStabby19812]

mistofoles nope when I was in college in 2005 Strathtay were still running old Layland Leopards.

[@jamesfrench7299]

You can have 100 year old buses if they're serviceable.

[@woden20]

The ruin started intentionally after WWII

[@user-cq7uv2ig1y]

باصات برستول ولايلند البريطانيه احسن باصات ليش ماترجعون اعاده صناعته بدل فولفو وسكانيه

[@somdusazerate]

what's that in old english?

[@jamesfrench7299]

Because there's no British pride anymore. A disgrace.

[@trainrover]

Today's footage still reveal GB's a n c i e n t preference for single-door buses..makes their switch to exact fare over there all the queerer..oh well.

[@what-uc]

S a f e t y

[@jamesfrench7299]

Three doors with entry and exit work fine in other countries but not suitable in Anglo Saxon societies apparently. Reflecting the passengers?

[@trainrover]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKmtZ6OVrrmtbs0 I seem to remember writing my comment up there around the advent of this kleptoparasitic germfare s t i l l being waged worldwide, but its two-year-old time stamp would appear to indicate otherwise (the advent occured for us over here at the Ides of March 2020). You see, I seem to remember framing my comment to thereafter veer along the lines of germs transmissibility, because for the initial several months over here both boarding and alighting for passengers had to happen via the rear doors. For the past 19 months, exiting via the front doors has been strictly prohibited.