Butt Welding VS Overlapping Sheet Metal Panels

[@HotRodHippie]

Do you butt weld or overlap your replacement panels? Are you considering practicing Butt Welding panels more if you have been Overlapping?

[@elliotbradley]

Good point; it's definately easier to hammer & dolly sheet metal when butt welding panels together - seems kind of obvious, but I've never thought about it so succinctly for some reason :P Maybe you could do a similar video on TIG versus MIG welding panels together (MIG welds seem to shrink more than TIG welds and are harder to shape with a hammer and dolly than TIG welds are)

[@georgespangler1517]

I do butt welds in my old classic cars because the metal was so much thicker,,,but new cars I lap the new cars metal is just so thin

[@Mikefngarage]

@@georgespangler1517 totally agree. the only way to do a repair on a newer car properly is to lap. Old stuff you can do either. but some areas I still lap. Round areas. if its easier lap it. long areas sometimes lap to prevent warpage. As long as I achieve a minimal amount of filler and the end results are nice. Who Fn cares.

[@Mikefngarage]

I have been building cars my whole life and I am 56 years old. I wont do it for other people. I only do them for myself. I worked in a body shop and custom shop when I was much younger. I started building cars before I had a drivers license. I can say there is NO one size fits all for repairs. Some areas NEED to be lapped. to get a strong repair. They are weak points in the car you are trying to correct. for a lasting repair. I have taken apart my work 20 years later and the idealism of the rust getting between the 2 layers is not realism of what reality is. On thinner than 20 gauge you ARE weakening the panel. Next to where you weld the metal is melted and it is thinner by a small margin. The metal is already thin if you lap you have 2 layers to make up for the loss of metal . Plus your grinding you loose a bit for that. No repair will last FOREVER either. everything will eventually be exactly what it is... a REPAIR. As long as your repair meets the needs of what your trying to achieve it is just fine. You next gens got a lot to learn. Not being negative. Just real and no thumbs down just letting you know where I stand on this stuff. Got a few years on you bud. Keep building cars and keep it FUN. Dont overstress on how long your repair will last just do the right thing you think you need to do for what you do.

[@borisjankovici662]

The biggest hang up for me about lapping autobody sheet metal is that...lapped pieces of metal are the entire reason your car rusted out in that area. Lapped metal just collects dirt, moisture, and salt. How do you paint/protect the inside of the lap? I get the feeling that the concept of lapping metal is done by people from the south or southwest where everything is much less corrosive. I have very marginal experience with auto body so I don't really care what people do, and I am not saying one way is better than the other. But lapping sheet metal seems very wrong.

[@mingiasi]

I daringly tackled my first ever welding as a old 95 bmw e34. Learned A TON while going, still learning and improving. I agree on butt-weld because you are not creating rust pockets.

[@dukeallen432]

8 months into welding sheet metal. Went straight to butt welding due to good advice as this. Getting better. Patience patience patience. Enjoyed your vid. Subscribed. Cheers.

[@Mikefngarage]

Here is where I stand on this. Butt welding is WEAKER than lapping and years ago if you butt welded a panel in and the insurance adjuster saw it.... your would loose your contract period. However on 16 gauge or 18 gauge steel it is fine for a good repair. Some areas have weak points like VW fenders and some areas of the hood. To properly repair those areas lapping is the ONLY way to do the repair long lasting. IMO if you can do the repair and achieve the fillers specification, Especially with the quality of the premium fillers today, There is nothing wrong with lapping. Even with 20 gauge steel you can use either lap or butt to achieve the same quality finished product. Some areas a lap is just fine and some areas to get the finish you need only a butt is the way to do it. This is not a one size fits all business. I have been building car my whole life and nice ones at that. Now when your talking NEW cars 22 gauge.... I would NEVER BUTT WELD. IT is too weak a repair for the thin sheet metal. Next to where you weld the metal is thinner from the heat. There is NO one size fits all. to this stuff. BTW I still give the video a thumbs up because you are restoring cars.

[@TallStarlite]

Every method has place, depends on the situation because in my experience, I'm consistently challenged and sometimes one method is more feasible over the ideal.

[@renosgarage7451]

Ive always butt welded since i started repairing cars, with tig theres no gap, with mig i use a gap about the diameter of the mig wire and make sure the gap doesnt close up as i go

[@HotRodHippie]

Solid input. I don't know why I never replied to say so. 👍👍 I have been known to leave a material thickness gap on mig welding bit I only mig weld chassis stuff usually. Thanks

[@alext8828]

I just started watching and this guy knows what he's talking about. This ain't no garage screwball tripping over air hoses. Let's listen.

[@brianplumleigh2443]

Very very well said , HHR. That's how I was taught. You're always trying to take to where it's as close to how it left the factory as possible within your means. Plus filler gets very heavy!

[@HotRodHippie]

👍👍👍 Thank you for the comment. Glad folks get it.

[@jeremyspecce]

The corrosion/ rust thing is the first thing I thought of when you started talking about this. Nice video.

[@rmckayne]

Am 65 now, I began to weld with oxy-acetylene when I was 16. Am still use oxy-acetylene in some cases. I learn to mig 1979, when for first time I meet a representative from HTP at a paint store and tools supplier. I don't have the customers for buttwelds, my customers are in the average preserve repair. I did some buttwelds, but is not my favorite. Nice video, thanks.

[@RonCovell]

Alan - very well presented, and I'm completely on-board with butt just about any sheetmetal repair!

[@HotRodHippie]

Much appreciated Ron.

[@mikejustice1196]

Hi Ron, been watching your awesome videos.😊

[@jaziumusa4131]

Ron covell good

[@Mikefngarage]

Even on 22 gauge? not agreeing with that one. Too thin for a butt. you need the strength of the lap.

[@jonathanyates5198]

@@Mikefngarage I think even 20 gauge is too thin to butt. Most body shops want their techs to do lap repairs. If you take care of it, the repair can last for many years

[@c50ge]

Overlap and screw in place then cut at the overlap on one side or corner then work your way around with a butt joint until everything is a butt joint. Much easier than trying to make the piece a perfect fit all at once, much quicker also. I’m very new to this but this method is like having help hold it in place. IMO. Yes I agree if you stack metal on metal it will never look right and will haunt you for years to come. Thanks for you videos, they all help I learn something from each of them.

[@edselwaynehenson148]

He is so right about rust, my pick even under shelter rusted (good ole south Georgia humidity) I am repairing the bed, new floor and plan to replace the lower 3" both sides and front. A bit of a challenge as I am learning as I go but it will happen and I plan to butt weld, there is no hidden side. Long pieces of square tubing for straight lines.

[@istvanmeissler2238]

You're correct. Gas welding a butt weld panel is the best and easiest way to go as well. I knew everything you said many years ago by reading books from master body men but I too thought it was a difficult repair to make until I saw an English chap do it and then I wasn't so intimidated. Like EVERYTHING we do, it's easier than you think, and all the more so with practice.

[@SAXONWARLORD1000AD]

i had never even welded anything before but just completed 30 patch panels (YES 30) in my CJ5 JEEP and 7 in my 240Z all with great success - Just take the time to make and fit the patch with 1/32 gap and tack evenly and opposite the last tack leaving enough time to let the panel cool in between tacks to minimize warpage,worked great for me

[@HotRodHippie]

Excellent input. I'm glad it worked out for you. Perfect example how with the proper mindset and patience you can do this. 👍

[@jeremyhanna3852]

I do both mainly do butt on painted visible surfaces (rocker patches quater patches etc) but on unseen stuff like floors toe kicks I flang those spot weld and seam sealer

[@johnkennedy8452]

So glad you made this video for me and other car inthuesist. You see I have a 56 Pontiac Safari . a little bit more rare than a Chevy Nomad. Not that their is anything wrong with Nomads. Any way my Safari is my High School car that is in need of a floor pan replacement 's . so their's a difference between Pontiac and Chevy floor pan's . I bought both because the Pontiac pan's are flat pieces which had some issues . the metal was flexing like a sprung piece of steel. So after talking to a HOT ROD shop I decided to purchase a set of Chevy floor pan's because they were stamped with rolled edges which made them much stronger with no flex ,but now I need to use both sets with modifications to make them work for my needs. And sorry to say I was thinking of overlapping until watching your video now i will use strips of steel and cleakoes to hold in place while tack welding in place. Thanks for your insight as I am wanting to do it correctly.

[@randalbruss1587]

Im 61 and still learning Thanks for teaching

[@dadams19111]

Thank you, my argument too! My eyes were opened about 15years ago, been painting for 40 years.

[@mickholgate3347]

100% correct mate! Should NEVER be used in Resto work.

[@markt9438]

Agreed where you're going to use filler definitely butt weld, but no pun intended when your fabricating anything under like wheel wells or trunk area and like package tray areas definitely this is the way to go with a flange. It serves the purpose to make it stronger one reason and you can always go back in there behind it with a rust preventative easy peasy

[@evopwrmods]

One of the best Manipulating Automobile Metal Channels on KZbin !

[@Okie-Tom]

Very good video sir! I to am learning to butt weld my patch panels. I am using a Dillon gas torch. To me the gas welds are much softer and take the hammer and dolly work much better. I am very much looking forward to your demonstration videos. Thanks, Tom

[@davidg5704]

Picked up a Forney 140 flux core welder. Butt weld a section of left side rear wheel arch near gas fill tube. Ok to buttweld or use 3m seam 8115 and clamp? Trying to keep repair size small with minimal filler. Thanks for the knowledge.

[@HotRodHippie]

You are going to have a heck of a time butt welding in with a Flux Core machine unfortunately. Is it a long term fix on a project you really care about? Or something that just needs to last a few years? If it’s just a “fix” the panel bond method will work ok. It will require more filler in the long run and last a shorter time, but it’s a far simpler process. Along that same vein, for a quick patch job, an overlap and the Flux Core will get the job done. But if it’s something you really want to last, practice some sheet metal butt welding (of the same or similar thickness) on the welding bench and see how it goes. I find Flux Core harder to control the heat input so it’s going to be a challenge, but there is no replacement for a good butt welded in patch.

[@fwucku]

Last week i had a daunting first time task of butt welding an entire out side quater and a few other big panels. I butt welded all of them and i took my time and looks great. Give it a shot guys

[@matthewsweetser602]

I use to overlap everything for the same reason you've mentioned didn't know better. Nowadays I even butt weld the slap it on and get jobs. I'm looking forward to the future vids good job on all you've done so far.

[@williamcharles9480]

The debate of flange welding or butt welding automotive body panels has been a question that had remained unanswered in my head for a while until now. You've cleared my head, thanks. I have a question. What do you think of that air tool that slightly turns down the edge of the two panels to be butt welded? It essentially makes a small trough for the weld settle into so that the weld isn't sitting on top of the metal. This is supposed to allow you to do less grinding and give the weld more strength. The tool in question is Eastwood: "Pneumatic Perfect Panel Prep Tool" Item#21128. Thanks again for sharing your smarts.

[@HotRodHippie]

I absolutely despise that tool. I think it's the worst of both worlds. Means you will have the trouble of lining up a butt welded panel, and none of the benefit. You won't be able to hammer and dolly a panel properly after using it because now your weld area is multiple times thicker than it should be. I'd rather see someone save themselves the trouble and just overlap a panel rather than use that tool. Thank you for the comment and question.

[@williamcharles9480]

@@HotRodHippie , I appreciate the quick reply. I knew that there was a good reason to subscribe to your channel. There's a lot of BS out there concerning metal working automotive body panels and you seem to make a lot of sense.

[@mercedesmaintenance.6339]

Thanks so much for this clear explanation. I restore Period antique furniture for a living and am new to body repair. I figured I would follow the same principles. Use correct matching materials and recreate how it was done before. With minimal filler. I always try to make wood patches that need zero filler. Same applies here. Nice one.

[@ryanwopat4739]

Great video Alan, I’m with you on this one. I do not overlap panels. I never really have, maybe once or twice on the rare occasion. Great info on why not to do it. One thing I notice about lap panels, is in the sun the metal expands with a lapped panel that part won’t expand as much. Iv been to lots of show where you can see the seam thru the bodywork and paint bc of the warm sun. Just do it right the first time, don’t cut corners. Looking forward to the next videos as always

[@HotRodHippie]

You are very correct on the expansion factor. The same thing apply to large amounts of body filler. It expands at a different rate than the base metal so it can be seen on a good sunny and hot day. Not always but it happens.

[@jonathanyates5198]

That's why you are supposed to barely tap the seam down and apply a small amount of filler

[@cebudave]

I butt weld, using miniature clamps between the two pieces of metal. Thanks for your great videos.

[@ChadLisonbee]

If you were converting a truck bed from long to short, what would be your preferred welding method, MIG, TIG, or both?

[@HotRodHippie]

Personally I TIG weld basically everything. Depending on how I went about it (would depend on the specific vehicle) I would probably TIG weld almost all of it and any spot welding would be done with MIG welding. That said, the folks at Metal OX Fab are releasing a how to video on 67-72 Chevy bed shortening. I haven’t seen it to give a review and it seems a hair pricy at $27 but it’s a place to get some more info. www.metaloxfab.com/shop/67-72-c10-short-bed-conversion-how-to-video

[@melgross]

Very good, and very true. I don’t work on cars, but it’s true for much of sheet metal work where a flat panel isn’t being made.

[@mickthomassen2887]

I’m a bit late on this video but thx for the top tips from someone about to try and teach himself how to mig weld. People with your skill and passion enable people like me to learn this handy skill. Thx for putting the time and effort into presenting this.

[@c10rucasg-bodys32]

Dude I like your style and you are 100% right we cut away rest to keep it out It sucks to install a new part you work hard and come to find out down the road you Neglected that new install piece of material and restart EASY never comes cheap

[@HotRodHippie]

I'm glad you see where I am coming from. Having to redo poor restoration work really bums me out. And no one is happy having to pay to fix something they already paid to fix.

[@JohnyTopaz]

Good on you - you’re so right! I’ve always laughed at Eastwood for wanting us to buy their tools and do lap joints!

[@HotRodHippie]

I get lap joints. I don't approve but I get them. What Eastwood sells that I just don't get is those pliers that make a V-groove of sheetmetal to "fill with weld". So one goes through all the effort of properly fitting a butt welded panel then ruins it with a groove that is "easy to weld". Sigh

[@keithstella2278]

Great video. I'm starting to do a frame off resto on my 1968 galaxie 500xl. The only rot in the floors is the trunk and I'm making the new panel and butt welding everything. I'm def not a pro welder and this takes a long time but by far a better product in the end.

[@jonathanyates5198]

And it will be much weaker. Factory overlaps for a reason.... it's stronger

[@bodibrodice147]

Excellent video. I've quit two shops I was hired to do metal work at before even starting over lap welded body panels. We have a sort of Hippocratic oath to these automotive pieces of history, and I have no interest in being involved with a shop that can't be bothered to do the job right.

[@HotRodHippie]

Here here. I have butted heads with a few folks in the past. When they told me to "Just overlap it" I tell them 'I'm doing it the right way or not at all. You didn't hire me to do rush jobs.'

[@brianplumleigh2443]

@@HotRodHippie Someone real good (Ron Covell) can metal finish an area on a panel as fast as it takes for someone to finish the same area with filler. Like you said, the goal is to minimize the amount of filler (and then it goes to a painter that covers it all in bondo anyways!)

[@HotRodHippie]

I wish I could claim to be that fast of a metal finisher but that will hopefully come with time. Body workers are going to cover it anyway, but at least I know I've done my best and the finished product will have less filler than many others. 👍👍 Thanks

[@mikeaze423]

I’ve put a flange on big replacement panels to have a go way to hold the panel with some spot welds in place but but later I’ll cut the flange and line up the butt welds

[@HotRodHippie]

Suggestion: Buy Clecos. Overlap, drill and click the panels together. Then you can tack the butt weld and cut off the flange for a butt weld seam. I need to do a video demonstrating this.

[@HotRodHippie]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pl64pn6Mh62lmdE

[@mikeaze423]

@@HotRodHippie yeah never seen those they seem sweet

[@ridinrancher9443]

Thank you so much for this video. I just asked this question yesterday on someone else’s video and this pops up with the answer today. 👍

[@HotRodHippie]

Glad I could answer your question! Look out for more on this topic and some better nuance on it in the future.

[@brucejackson2773]

Thanks for the thorough explanation. You answered a lot of questions I had about overlapping joints.

[@Metalsuitman]

Great video. Looking for to learning from you. I thought you were going to suggest overlapping as a viable solution to joining panels but discovered that was not the case. You've convinced me butt welding is the best way so I will continue to improve my skill at this. Thanks again.

[@rafaelallenblock]

My unibody classic car was built at the factory with overlapping sheet metal panels, not a butt weld anywhere.

[@carlgeorgtsigakis498]

Looking forward to the next videos! I've always been told to leave a sawblade gap between the panels, to give the panels room for expansion.. Looking forward to hearing your take on this and your next videos. Thanks for a great channel! Edit. Done both, types. On floors I've always butt welded, door sheets always overlapped.. Willing to improve and change my ways though.. ;)

[@blakenorman4822]

Got an old truck, bottom of door rusted gone but welded outside skin on, whole length of bottom of door about 3.5 inches high, kind of rippled bottom of new panel in a couple spots, I should try to hammer and dolly flat before I put inside skin on? thanks

[@HotRodHippie]

Yes you should. Welds shrink as they cool. They need to be hit with a hammer and Dolly to stretch back out a little and smooth out. I'll be covering that in a new series I'm doing about repairing s VW fender shortly.

[@LTDan-pk3mx]

Again Love your teaching style! And you earned yourself a subscriber! Having said that, I am replacing my rockers on a 85 chevy crew cab cummins, where should i purchase the rockers and any installation instructions tips would be Much appreciated!! Thanks again!

[@nerner67]

I have always tried to butt weld, but as a very amateur welder I find I get to much warpage in the panel. I Understand that is the result of getting to much heat in the panel but even when I think I am managing the heat better I still end up with a bit of warpage in the end. Also need to practice my shrinking as a result. I am looking forward to your promised videos to see what tricks there are to do it better.

[@HotRodHippie]

I can tell you already you'll learn something. It sounds like yiu maybe attacking things backwards. Warping when butt welding a panel is a result of the weld itself shrinking. It is a result of the rapid cooling of the hot weld but you need to syreych the weld and closely surrounding metal back out a bit to counter act things. Not to say I never shrink things as well in the process.

[@HotRodHippie]

If your only reason that Butt Welding ISN'T the way to do the job is "It takes too law and requires too much effort" your argument is that you aren't willing to invest the time into improving your skills and doing the job right. That is your problem not mine.

[@petesake344]

Well presented, you were passionate about taking the time to do it right, i was straight up going to lap weld, so glad i watched

[@wyattoneable]

I'm new at this craft but I did use the butt weld on my last project. One day my panels will be smooth and minimal use of body filler would be great! Someday.

[@HotRodHippie]

All you can do is try. The fact that you want them to be goes a long way Vs not caring. 👍👍

[@chefjamesmacinnis]

so I just got my first welder. I was thinking of overlapping my rocker panels because they are conered with fiberglass skirts. is this a spot were I'd in "ok"

[@pedrokim7435]

Hi Alan, What do you recommend to protect overlap or spot welder for rust. Weld thru primer, epoxy prime after or other Thanks

[@georgespangler1517]

Just did my first panel with the Eastwood v flange tool , gives a nice valley for weld to go in,, check into it l love it

[@donaldbaker6961]

Thank you I’m trying to decide what way to go on some patches you are making it much easier to decide which way to go thank you 😊

[@kieren7763]

I'm so glad you explained this for everyone I'm always telling people to butt weld some even try to argue the point saying it's fine especially some of these utube panel beaters lol keep up the good work.and nice job on the Chevy quarter that would have taken a while.

[@steenmortensen6410]

interesting ive done a lot but weld ok, , , and was now going to overlapping- but you have changed my mind , its obvious that it is not easy to afterwards correct the panel, but i Wonder if overlapping on the inside is pointing downwards, then there is no opportunity for water vapor to condense..

[@HotRodHippie]

You'd allow drainage but condensation would still absolutely occur. So it may last longer but will still eventually corrode unnecessarily. The absolute only situation where I promote overlapping is to add strength. And in that respect I just mean things like floor pans, A/B-pillars, and wheel wheel openings where you need the added rigidity of multiple layers.

[@woodbineshark]

great video I was considering an overlap but you have convinced me otherwise..tyvm practice practice!

[@rob12449]

I'm totally new to body work, love it so far, and have practiced butt welding. tried oxy ace but gave up, bought an ac flux core welder and tried joining small scrap pieces. I noticed tiny pin holes even between tack welds somewhat overlapped... I need to watch more youtube videos obviously. I've even considered metal epoxy (waterproof) to overlap repairs! but will keep practicing butt welding... hopefully will be able to repair rust holes on my old truck before they grow much bigger.

[@HotRodHippie]

Flux-core is difficult. It has its uses but for sheetmetal it introduces too many impurities into such a small weld, in my opinion. I would be Oxy welding if I had the choice between only the two. I realize it is absolutely a more difficult skill to master but it will end up a better result. I should do a video about it in the future. You can still get the job done with flux. It is going to be a small uphill battle, but practice practice practice. If it was me I'd be looking at those points where the pinholes are popping up and see if you can/should be overlapping your welds a little bit more onto the previous welds. Or consider hitting those pinholes with a grinder or drill bit and filling them back in with the welder. Its a time consuming process but sometimes that is how things go to get a good finished result. Personally I TIG weld everything. That is the most challenger process to learn initially and there is a barrier to entry as far as machine costs, I fully understand that. I'm going to be looking for "affordable" TIG machine options for viewers in 2020 and see if I can find an acceptable entry level machine that folks can agree on.

[@rob12449]

thank you for spending the time to carefully answer my question. I will try the oxy ace again and am sure a good video would help me a lot, but will also practice the flux core. I have been cleaning thoroughly and even grinding down before coming back.

[@drizler]

Flux. core or mig. You need to skip all around back n forth side to side to let it cool down. That prevents warping. It’s not really any sort of continuous weld but rather a bunch of tack welds touching each other. For spacing HF makes those tiny $2 mini lamps. They’ll give you your spacing and hold the patch in place nicely. They’re about the size of your thumb, very handy . Don’t forget another trick. If it’s wanting to burn through take a piece of copper water pipe and flatten with a hammer. Bend to suit it will last for decades. Hold it on the back to suck off some of the heat while welding. Keep a couple around for helping out. A couple chunks of 3/4” a foot long are handy . Handy also are the deep reach HF vice grips. I use name brand for tough work but the HF are fine for gripping and holding things in place and a cheap second set of hands

[@aux1z11]

I did a cab corner and a rear corner fender panel by butt weld and took a while but came out good but did the other cab corner overlap and it came out good and after paint I filled it up with fluid film and add more every fall and my whole paint job is 20 quarts of raptor bed liner with micro kevlar pulp and aluminum oxide powder mixed in then bonding primer then a paint job on top of that and it tuff as nails.

[@HotRodHippie]

If it works for you, it works for you. For me I don't see that application of chemicals as entirely necessary when the project is put together the way I feel it should be. That all works well for protecting a project, but can get a little ugly on certain builds, and in the way of any future upgrades or changes. If someone gets side swiped, will it be a nightmare to replace a quarter panel now? Things I have to think about when building cars.

[@ajd5363]

What do you think about using lap welds for a metal patch in rust repair?

[@HotRodHippie]

I was referring to replacing panels for rust as well as panel damage here. Everything I said stands true of rot repair as well. Especially with rust repair in my opinion. I'd hate to repair a thing in a way that could easily lead to future issues while trying to fix an issue. I always try to leave a project in better shape than it was originally. Taking note of what caused the original rot (if I can tell) and addressing it as I go.

[@jthsmooth]

I'm trying to Prep my truck for butt welding I have holes I have to butt. Thanks for the info 👍

[@larryryan2973]

i started back in early 70's we never dreamed of butting panels then,everything was lapped and brazed together. dont know as i ever had a comeback. then mig come along. i remember buying one of those flange tools,flanged it and mig welded it.it was the worst job i ever did. throw them flangers away,learn to butt weld or if you have to lap just bring together tight and weld it. oh that customer that i did that flange weld,that was my car,thank goodness,still in the garage,looks good 30 yrs later,but i know whats lurking behind that paint.lol

[@classicrestouk]

Using 2 cleco's with a joining piece between them to keep panel gaps - genius!!!

[@HotRodHippie]

I can't claim the idea as my own. I don't remember exactly where I got the idea but it may have been Lazze's Metalshaping. I do something else that is even easier now, but I have yet to do a video about it. I will sometime soon.

[@CrazyWillie01]

About to do lower door panels and rocker and floors on a 56 Chevy wagon 2 door , first heavy for me body work bought mig welder , I’m gonna but weld watched DD speed shop he said the same thing

[@BFreeMedia13]

I like over lapping and using right angle breaks on joints to add structure. I always use weld thru primer and seam sealer if this happens. Body panels however....never.

[@randsonic]

I am currently restoring a 1966 car which has been sanded on and painted several times prior. I gave up trying to butt weld panels as the metal is so thin I kept burning through. Turned the heat down, wire feed low/high...no difference. Any attempt to correct the burn through just added to the problem. Lap welding in this case is working much better, and no, it isn't going to Barret Jackson.

[@looking_33]

yeah. i tried after watching this... burn thru and a valley where the weld was that needed 2 be filled

[@deanm4138]

Great video and advise for someone getting into welding panels on my cars

[@HotRodHippie]

Thank you very much 👍

[@GoGoGarage]

I would have thought that overlapping would be easier and stronger, however, I personally would rather replace the entire panel than weld the crap out of it. I also use a weld through primer or a weldable 2 part epoxy (or panel adhesive) to prevent the metal from rusting where there is an overlap.

[@pontiacs.d.1of140]

I'm not good at butt welding but I think this video is going to help me. thanks

[@OldtimerRescue]

Thank you. Now I am convinced of butt welding my VW T2b :-)

[@angelonicassio7131]

I'd love to butt-weld but the piece has to be perfectly shaped first... I have seen an old technique where the piece is over-lapped and clecoed in then a small (1-2) inch cut is made and then the overlapping piece is pushed down and butt-welded. A few inches at a time. This way the piece is forced into shape. I will try this.

[@HotRodHippie]

That is basically how I do it. I lay my new panel over the old one, cleco them together, scribe in the cut line, then cut it and file fit before I weld. You should aim to always have a "relaxed" panel that fits properly before you start welding though. I am completely guilty of it, but that is the goal. If a panel doesn't want to lay flat, butt up nicely, it will only get worse with welding. That tension acts kind of like kinetic energy that the weld releases. Tense panels result in more warpage from welding and more need to hammer and dolly a finished panel. I will cover how I do these things in videos sometime soon hopefully. You are definitely on the right track in my opinion. 👍👍

[@angelonicassio7131]

HotRodHippie well, I’m subscribed:) thanks!

[@tonypires8816]

I'm not a body and fender guy. But I'm so old school I've always butt welded oxy-acetylene for my sheetmetal projects. I assume you take care of shrinkage with hammer and dolly stretching or air hammer?

[@HotRodHippie]

You are correct I hand hammer and dolly my welds to stretch out the shrink. I've been known to planish with a planishing hammer but lately I've been doing it all by hand instead. The air hammers I have on hand just don't do the job quite to my liking.

[@tonypires8816]

My sheetmetal repairs early on was on farm equipment like truck hoods, tractor hoods, harvester covers and one was a really extensive repair on a portable grain elevator. This was in the 70's so I'm not even sure something like those air powered units that make laps was around. But if they were I wouldn't have been able to use it because there wasn't "extra" metal to make a flange out of. I was repairing where the metal would crack from stress or abuse. But I always thought lapping was possibly the pro way to do it until your vid. As usual you made your points very clearly and I could see if it had been available fallen into the trap too. The thing that saved me was ignorance of the process :) I couldn't really see your repair on the '57. I always loved the idea of staying away from bondo but thanks to you and others I see it's possible to do it now. Thanks for the vid.

[@trafalgar22a8]

I like your straight talking assertive style,

[@HotRodHippie]

Thank you. I simply don't know how else to present the important information. Ha.

[@thomascolley254]

Flanging allows you to get perfect depth of opposing panels and reduces heat warpage a thousand percent.

[@HotRodHippie]

And clamping two materials butted together (of equal thickness) doesn't get you the "perfect depth"? All flange making tools I'm aware of don't have variable depth settings to account for material thickness differences. So no, you really won't get "Perfect Depth" that way. And "Heat Warpage" is actually "Material Shrinkage" and pretty easily corrected with proper panel prep & metal finishing after welding. Flanges only prevent it by causing stresses in the panels that make it overly rigid and reinforced. Thus creating & adding to the issues I stated in this video. Just because Flanging is easier, does not mean it is superior. Butt Welding isn't for everyone, I get that, but difficulty alone doesn't decide how effective a technique is.

[@89unica]

Thanks for making this video. What are your thoughts when you actually want to add some structure? 99% of the sheetmetal welds I've done on my current projects have been but welds, however I was shaving a section of the firewall and the area seemed a little too flimsy, i don't have a beed roller to add structure. the panel I made had a flange 360 degrees around, then I fully welded that from the motor engine side (managing the heat). my thought was that the point that could be subject to potential moisture is on the interior side. I know a but weld would have been better, but the flange does add some structure. I guess ideally a couple of beeds would have been better?

[@HotRodHippie]

Beadrolling would be ideal there but that said I support overlapping in scenarios like that. When it comes to actual structural situations overlapping makes sense. The disadvantages are outweighed by the added strength when done properly. Firewalls and Floor pans I usually overlap at the edges. In your situation I could see maybe making a hat channel type of cross member and welding it to the firewall from the inside. Then you could use that to mount wiring to or something like that under the dash. It isn't how I'd do it but I understand your situation.

[@waldonherdman1447]

I agree but, how do you get floor pans to line up properly? I can do ok on exterior small patches, but large floor pans I overlap because if you cut them too short, your in for twice or three time the headache..enlighten me. Thanks

[@jonathanyates5198]

Always lap weld structural areas like floor pans for strength

[@otismatvejs1026]

Use weld through primer beforehand, behind panels you can't paint after welding.

[@RRMGarage]

I have always butt welded way more than overlaping. But I am very interested in those cleco straps.

[@kaylachapman4469]

Me a rookie body man. But 12year welder...argue this point with my older brother all the time..who is a 20+ year auto body guy...preach on brother..lol

[@guillermonieri4203]

Excellent suggestion. Will follow that. Thank you.

[@olddognewtricks4804]

Hi, how would you go about making a 55 F100 rear cab corner (with hand tools)? Thanks,

[@HotRodHippie]

Honestly, I wouldn't. Replacement corners are available for $29.99. Even if it doesn't fit well I'd buy it and modify it. It would be quicker than producing my own and cheaper. www.macsautoparts.com/ford_truck_late/ford-pickup-truck-cab-corner-15-high-lower-rear-rightouter.html?adpos=1o3&scid=scplp48-461652-1&sc_intid=48-461652-1&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2efrBRD3ARIsAEnt0egzcIGkSstwJJMPQmgShfMEhSktyXk9kK06EaSsJkqQacnHVMdOoigaAsy-EALw_wcB If I was to do it id use a sandbag to hammer in the primary shape. Then smooth with hammers and dollies. Repeating the same bagging until it came around. Not a simple process or how I'd choose to do it but that is the simplest way to go.

[@srs_lol]

I over lapped in the rear wheel arch sill and floor pan in my e30 cause I was lazy and used brushable seam sealer on both sides 🤔

[@HotRodHippie]

That is how a lot of cars are originally produced in those areas. Especially floor pans, I make an exception for. The rust concerns still exist but the additional structure an overlapped joint can create there is hard to ignore. When a lot of cars derive their structure from their floor pans, that is an important factor. You did the right thing using a good seam sealer on both sides. It may not prevent everything but it will absolutely help.

[@srs_lol]

HotRodHippie phewww thanks..I thought I might have messed up. lol😄

[@D6Spanky]

People always tell me just to overlap! Thanks for showing me why I was right! 🤣

[@HotRodHippie]

Glad to help. Ha. Next time someone gives you trouble point them to this video so they can argue with me about it. (and give me views... 😂😂)

[@D6Spanky]

@@HotRodHippie Hahahaha! I will! I subscribed! I couldn't seem to find good information on body work until I found your channel. I'm also. KZbinr and will send people your way! The struggle is real. 🤣

[@HotRodHippie]

Thank you. Every bit helps. It really is a struggle sometimes. I just subbed to your channel as well. 👍👍

[@D6Spanky]

@@HotRodHippie Sweet! Thanks!

[@D6Spanky]

@@HotRodHippie Also, if you didn't know, Kindigit Design is hiring. They posted the opening on IG. Looks like you may have the skills to get the job, if you wanted it.

[@VideosByAl]

Explain your technique and machine for the weld shown at 8:15. Thanks.

[@HotRodHippie]

I'll give you a quick brief here but suffice to say I will be doing a few videos on the topic eventually. That specific process was: -Clamped in place after file fitting. -Tacked every 3/4" along the entire Seam. -Lightly hammer and dollied to make sure everything was properly aligned. -Welded 3/4" -Lightly hammered to maintain shape. -Repeated continually for hours as the entire weld was well over 100". That isn't my preferred method but it sure looks looked pretty.

[@dholtorf7330]

@@HotRodHippie cant wait for more in depth videos on this process!

[@JCMakerspace]

Couldn't have said it better Alan.

[@HotRodHippie]

Thank you

[@m2useinu]

Do manufacturers butt weld sheet metal together? I see all sorts of overlaps I don't think I've ever seen a OEM butt weld

[@HotRodHippie]

Because the OEM isn't replacing sections of panels. They have the manufacturing to make a 6 foot long quarter panel in a single piece. You basically DO see "butt welds" the middle of their panels are one continuous piece. That is what a Butt Weld is attempting to recreate. You'll never see a manufacturer put an overlap joint in the middle of a door skin, fender, etc. The problem we have in the aftermarket is replacement parts. Can I get a complete quarter panel for a 1955 Chevy and not have to butt weld OR overlap? Sure, but I know from experience they are pure garbage. The shapes of them are incorrect to the original car, the flanges aren't as crisp, and they will look terrible when installed. So if all I have is a rusted out wheel arch, why replace the entire quarter panel and spend weeks to get it right? I can cut just the wheel arch out of the replacement panel (or just get that part) and butt weld it in. Finish it off, and now it is once again, one complete part.

[@yellowrustybirdwheels]

i had a teacher once tell me there is 3 ways to do something 1.your way 2. my way 3. the right way and i am going to teach all 3 in this class. so i am a blank page teacher help me learn the right way.

[@joekahno]

Damn! I feel so old. When I got my first car I couldn't afford a welder, or much of a car. Am I the only living antique who feathered the edges and sweat soldered patches onto his clunker?

[@Stahodad]

We gas welded panels in with bronze rod...brazing...not great but better than pop rivets!

[@koolcruiserful]

Great motivation. Good information

[@richardwilliams3788]

Thanks for the Lesson Thumps up

[@martycaldwell7197]

What does it look like onthe inside??

[@Innochamp]

Buttweld looks much better at the end and can be tinned.

[@rays9719]

Can butt welding be combined with plug welding and if so what is the combination called.

[@jbeam794]

no

[@mrjrp1966]

Keep up the Awesome Videos ! The Koffin Kats are releasing a few singles and looking to Tour this year. Just a heads up.

[@HotRodHippie]

I saw a message earlier today about some new singles. I'm looking forward to checking them out., 👍👍

[@samr1275]

You are the best man. I wish for you a great success cuz you are doing a very damn good job. Looking to see your future videos!

[@HotRodHippie]

Thanj you very much. I really appreciate it.

[@mikejustice1196]

I use to work for WW trailers in Oklahoma If it wasn’t for the trim department those trailers would never sale. Lol Great video(s)

[@Steverinomeister]

For body panels butt weld and lead yeah but floorpans I like flanges.

[@georgeaths1010]

Very well explained. Subscribed!

[@HotRodHippie]

Thank you very much 👍 👍

[@RX7GSLSEowner]

Enjoyed that, thank you!

[@ifixeditmyself1926]

This was great!

[@edallen5119]

Very good video. Thanks for sharing