Buttonville Police Drone Collision Follow-up: What I Learned from the Actual Reports

This is my second and final follow-up video delving into the irregularities in the investigation and enforcement actions related to the York Regional Police drone collision with a Cessna near Toronto / Buttonville Airport in August 2021. In this video, I discuss the interesting findings and contradictions between the reports I received through Access to Information Requests (York Regional Police and Transport Canada's Enforcement Unit) and the original Transportation Safety Board report. My favourite line in these reports: "REALLY?" !!!
References:
1. The Transportation Safety Board (TSB) Report A21O0069: www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-re...
2. My original video summarizing the report: • Police Drone Collides ...
3. My first follow-up video: • That's it: I call BS o...
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[@TeeEmmCee]

I find it absolutely appalling that an action as dangerous as this is treated so lightly by authorities. It was only by sheer luck that a more devastating outcome was prevented. It’s hard to imagine that if a private citizen caused an accident like this one, that it would have been treated in the same manner. However, as someone else commented, I guess the precedent has been set in case some other person does something as dumb as this. The consequences are really not that severe. Thank you so much, Don, for your diligence and your reporting. Fantastic work, sir.

[@seyanbryan520]

Only because a cop did it.

[@carldumont5789]

Important for the drones-community to have you Don! Very interesting you are objective and passionate,nice listening to you! 👍

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you, Carl!

[@andychevalier229]

Thanks for this Don. As a commercial operator that moves through the hoops of getting proper authorizations to fly it's beyond me that anyone flying worth their salt can't get their sh** together to comply and keep everyone safe, ESPECIALLY these guys. Great reporting on your part.

[@DonJoyce]

I agree, Andy.

[@BobHerres]

Your calm and impartial evaluation has revealed some very obvious issues... It certainly deserves a respectful response. TC is likely in shock right now, as I doubt they have ever received, or expected, a comprehensive analysis like this. Great Job Thank you.

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you, Bob! I suspect I will not hear a peep from any of these agencies.

[@investigativeresearchcounc8388]

The Dirty Blue Line always covers it's A$$. Thanks for an informative piece.

[@muhannad123]

Great investigation, Don. You are spot on. The drone community is lucky to have you.

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks!

[@guyzerr1577]

Thanks for all your hard work Don and not letting up in trying to get to the bottom of this. It shouldn't come as any surprise that this is another case of buddies looking after buddies. If that were a civilian member of a mislabelled RC aircraft " drone pilot " or any other for that matter they would have been hung out to dry.

[@terke1230]

Excellent work Don. Thank you. On the bright side: legally TC & TSB have set a precedent by this action and all future infractions by mere civilians must now be treated with the same leniency.

[@liarspeaksthetruth]

I was wondering if this might become a precedent. I'm torn between hoping not, and hoping so.

[@TimothyBlairMusic]

Man I love your gumption! Your are doing a great job,calling out our government regulators. I have had many dealings with TC’s marine department and I’d have to say they really need a serious review. It can take 18 months for them to deliver a medical certificate that expires after 2 years. Meaning, by the time you receive your certificate, you have six months to book your next appointment and submit the medical test results for your next certificate! And you can’t work without it! But don’t get me started on the testing and licensing of Marine engineering officers!

[@DonJoyce]

Hey, Tom...these guys work for US! I wouldn't put up with nonsense from my employees.

[@derekcox6531]

Thanks for the update,Don. I must say,this final report smacks of office politics. I don’t believe for 1 second that the investigator wrote such a thorough report and then “meh”…just decided that all of the ridiculous,clearly DANGEROUS,actions of the officers involved just boil down to a nothing burger. Really!?!? THAT’S what the public is supposed to accept!?!? Nope, someone higher up the food chain decided to remove the teeth from this decision. It’s more than obvious to sensible people. Simply appalling.

[@jimross898]

A mild gumming for sure. Like a baby nibbling your finger.

[@deepotter6774]

Wow, Don! That’s incredible findings of the findings. Both disturbing and alarming for me since I live inside Buttonville’s controlled airspace and will only fly at low altitude with extreme caution from my back yard where I only fly to check calibrations. I’ve always taken the precautions necessary to avoid incoming aircraft, which are usually around a comfortable 1000’ above my house, but I’ve never gone above 100’ for absolute safety, and I’m certain if I came anywhere close to causing a mid-air collision, I would be facing much more than a simple $1000 fine.

[@privacylawyer]

I found the investigator's interpretation of CAR 901.38 re Use of First-person View Devices to be very interesting. I think your take on it would align with how most people would read that provision, but it obviously can be interpreted to apply to the screen on the controller in addition to a more conventional FPV headset.

[@photographerpilotpamjohnston]

Thank you Don! I thoroughly enjoy how you're following up and making these people accountable. We as pilots Have to follow rules.. Does not matter what your job description is and who can protect you. Keep up the great work.

[@xrism8290]

Thank you Don, We are lucky to have you helping us!

[@dgaerialimagery]

Wow. This report is top-notch. True journalism. Thanks for this Don.

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you!!

[@4291juneau]

Your thorough investigation clearly out lines the sloppy application of drone regulations that have been characteristic of the authorities since the first day that these egregious processes were imposed on the RC flying communities.

[@leethstarwatcher]

Well done, Don. Thank you for this!

[@deltabravo2810]

Thanks for looking into this and trying to explain the facts to us. You work is much appreciated. Regards Sam

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you, Sam. Means a lot.

[@dwgreenberg]

You were very thoughtful and thorough. Thanks for the well presented report.

[@jeedmodorn5494]

I was flying my Avata in a sparsely populated area around Kawartha Lakes. Obviously "permitted" by the DJI flight location control. While flying, I noticed a warning message popup in my goggles, warning of a flight nearby. I'm obviously flying very low compared to any possible plane path in the area (since this is not in the vicinity of an airport), but was gratified to be notified, and I was on the alert. Sure enough, a couple of minutes later a small Cessna or equivalent flew far above my location. There was zero chance of collision obviously, but getting this notice was an indication of how drones could be managed vis-a-vis flight traffic to ensure minimal risk to people.

[@benargee]

Yeah I think newer DJI drones have ADS-B receivers on them.

[@philopfries6432]

Something to remember however. Not all manned aircraft have ADS-B equipped. DJI drones can only know of another aircraft if it has ADS-B that is also turned on. I kind of hope that they mandate for ADS-B for all manned aircraft one day.

[@benargee]

@@philopfries6432 ADS-B on all manned aircraft should be mandatory before RID on drones is mandatory. Also, ADS-B should probably be on unmanned over a certain weight or speed as manned aircraft should also be able to be aware of them. It wouldn't be terrible if all airports also have RID monitoring in the vicinity.

[@harrycraviotto2375]

Very good point, I was not aware this capability.

[@GFields-DigitalPhotoCreations]

Excellent work Don. Thanks for sharing your findings.

[@JonnyRay82]

Thank you for your investigation Don!

[@wetgod]

Bravo Don. Well done, one of your best!

[@MickPsyphon]

Had it not been the YRP, but instead some civilian Schmoe, the drone pilot would have incurred massive fines... and possibly jail time; and he certainly wouldn't be allowed to fly anymore... at least not until he retested and greased some palms. Yeah! You can bet the farm that there was a cover-up.

[@PinetreeLine]

Very interesting Don. Thanks for bringing to light more details on what actually happened in this case.

[@DonJoyce]

Glad you enjoyed it, Doug!

[@ClintChapman]

Well done Don! I don't believe the investigator determined or supported the final charges given his obvious incredulity with the pilots actions and frustration with the justifications of exigent circumstances by the police. That conclusion wreaks of favoritism forced onto the report by a much higher level.

[@tominthenorth]

Great job analyzing the reports. Thanks for you hard work.

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks, Tom!

[@orong2bonsai451]

Thanks for the information my friend, success always.

[@RobKristjansson]

Great reportage, Don - keep up the great work!

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you, Rob!

[@mayberrywj]

Great analysis Don....thanks....:)

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you!

[@chrisrobinson6288]

Very good points, one rule for thee and no rules for me. Boggles the mind.

[@henryporter6659]

Great work Don. Stuff like this has been going on for a long time. A friend of mine was a passenger in an aircraft accident and TSB changed the take-off time to protect the operator.

[@davestredulinsky]

Very interesting Don. Thank you for your detailed investigation and evaluation of the reports.

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you, Dave! It was an interesting process!

[@guvsgarage]

Put simply. "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." I wonder if George Orwell was a drone pilot?

[@DonJoyce]

Four props good....two props bad.

[@liarspeaksthetruth]

I'd like to ask Natasha if you or I were guilty of the same offenses, would the result be the same? No. There's some baloney here. Great work Don. Keep it up! Transparency is crucial as the industry develops.

[@DonJoyce]

Note that Natacha is with the Transportation Safety Board which does not pursue 'guilt'. It's the Transport Canada enforcement guys who determine charges and fines.

[@xjet]

Great video Don, keeping them honest! 🙂

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks, Bruce! Apply feet to fire, and hold firmly until the complaints stop.

[@PilotPlater]

Great analysis Don

[@nickstevens6398]

Thanks Don!

[@georgekelly1948]

Thanks for all the great work on this investigation and for explaining your findings logically and thoroughly. Accountability. The hand of justice. Personal position and power. Where does fairness fit into this human drama? Sadly, it can all turn on a prejudicial expedient.

[@randyb4105]

Thank you Don for once again uncovering ANOTHER police cover up. Police favorite motto Do as I say, NOT as I do.

[@Zbip57]

The guy who got caught flying his drone at the Ottawa International Airport (YOW) was fined a total of $3021. He claimed he was unaware of the illegality of his stupid actions. Not to make light in any way of the severity of that incident, and his fully deserved fine, but he did not actually hit any manned aircraft with his drone nor even fly into any runway flight paths. In contrast the York Regional Police incident was crazy dangerous. Why the huge difference in fines assessed? Furthermore, why wasn't a TSB report ever published over the British Columbia Wet'suwet'en gas pipeline protest, where an RCMP FLIR SkyRanger R60 drone collided with and brought down their own RCMP Aerospatiale AS350-B3 helicopter? The CADORS incidence report #2020P0775, was only entered into the CADORS system 4 MONTHS after the actual event (Civil Aviation **DAILY** Occurrence Reporting System). The CADORS report mentions a TSB Occurrence No: A20P0019, but where's the result of that?

[@roygmrobinson7285]

Highly educational and valuable. Informative and illustrative case study. Kudos for the effort to obtain the info and then to dig through the info. I am pleased by the very objective reporting on this case. 'Not chasing the clicks to the bottom'. Only very minor pinches of sensationalism. This keeps the Case Study high quality. thanks Don ✅

[@DonJoyce]

Glad you found it informative.

[@interlakedroneservices8372]

Well done Don! No doubt they didn't expect this type of scrutiny of their reports and have the inconsistencies pointed out in such a manner. Wonder if it will improve their future outputs...

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks, Steve! We can only hope that future reports are more carefully prepared.

[@ajlbeer]

Thanks for your channel!

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you for the kind donation!

[@TraceyFougere]

You got that right Don. 🎉

[@bikolananglayason]

wow very interesting video my friend.thanks for sharing.stay safe always❤

[@jacquescote8469]

Just passed my small advanced exam with 80% on the first try. I thought I had passed it with a high score. I will study more before I go for my in person test. Thank you for all your videos on KZbin.

[@DaveIMLP]

Great video Don. Would love to know the Cessna pilot's input on this.

[@jemmrich]

The funny thing is I recently reported a drone flying near an airport at aircraft flying levels and I received zero calls or emails for follow up. Do they really take any of this stuff seriously? I see drones flying near my local airport almost 3 times a week, sometimes I see a drone every day at dusk around 1000 feet from an actual active airport. It's absolutely crazy!

[@overkill1340]

I just read a news story about a "pilot" flying a drone around Ottawa airport from a hotel nearby. He did a few extra things like flying over 400ft and likely not having the basic license for the Air 2 S he was flying or the advanced for flying in controlled airspace, but he was fined $3000 without a collision.

[@DonJoyce]

Yep, and I'm looking into that. Coming soon.

[@the1andonly]

Great analysis. I really hope this won't happen again. First of all because it is dangerous, but also because all drone pilots depend on each other to avoid incidents that give us a bad name. the last thing we need is more restrictions because someone who thinks he's above the law screwed up and killed someone.

[@benargee]

If Police really need the airspace for recon operations without asking permission, they should declare the airspace temporarily restricted. Otherwise, police helicopters don't just infringe on airspace without authorization. Drones should be no different.

[@raymorrell3370]

You can file a complaint to the Information Commissioner, and they can review the unredacted version of the report and determine whether anything further qualified for release, or should remain exempt. If the Commissioner finds in your favour, they will produce a report to you, which you may then use as the basis of a Judicial Review Application at Federal Court. The cost to file the application is just $50 and you can do it yourself (online, for that matter). If the matter proceeds to court, there could be other costs, but TC may actually relent and settle the matter with you. Third-party redacted documents won't be unredacted, because of the third-party rule. But you already have the YRP report anyway.

[@FarrellMcGovern]

The TC report's conclusion sound like a classic case of a supervisor changing the investigators submitted report to water down the concusions for some reason, like not embarrassing the police force, or protecting the pilot and/or the observer. I bet if you were able to get an earlier version of the report, the investigator's concussions would have been much closer to your thoughts on the matter.

[@DonJoyce]

That is certainly a very good possibility. Even a few sentences of justification for the reduction in charges would have made their conclusion more palatable. Well, as long as it wasn't "my boss said so...."

[@jimross898]

Yah can't make this shit up. As usual, great work. I still can't find a final report on the RCMP drone\helicopter incident in Northern BC. It should be equally damning.

[@Aerosnapper]

This final (?) chapter in your Buttonville series provides an objective oversight of a very disturbing incident. Putting the mistakes involved aside, and the penalties awarded - there is a much more important issue perhaps. The police operator would not have been able to lift off in such a careless fashion if he had not benefited from the DJI Flysafe unlock made available to 'qualified' first response organizations. Perhaps, this provision should be more carefully examined. There's no question that the police and other emergency responders should not be hindered when acting under the circumstances their title suggests - emergencies - but making it too easy to circumvent safety measures leads to incidents like this.

[@danielsnyder3563]

Great follow-up. Was the M210 exempt from DJIs GEO Fence ?- Also did the pilot turn off the ADS-B warning software?

[@gabrielsenecal382]

Thanks a lot for that follow up Mr. Don , sadly, but cover-up in all capital letters. That’s my view.

[@paulnielsen8528]

You forget the other component of exigent circumstances. The Tim Hortons is about to close. Thank you Don.

[@dennisryckman5210]

Someone higher up in TC obviously influenced the final finding!

[@lasersbee]

Thanks for the detailed and logical review of this Drone accident and the shoddy reports. 13:48... Why woulds they redact the word 'his' unless it was 'her'...

[@DonJoyce]

It is done quite consistently throughout the report, so I suppose it is something to do with gender being a personal identifier.

[@clydemurray4050]

Good job Don, I suspect professional courtesy probably played into this as no one wanted to escalate this situation. I’m just glad they didn’t involve the Cessna pilot….for god knows what reason but let’s see if this isn’t his fault

[@agentvx8320]

One rule for me, one rule for thee.

[@GaryCameron]

Rules for thee, none for me!

[@suzysheer66]

The recent incident at the Ottawa? airport( i could be wrong), with the guy flying over the airport, and got a 3K+ $ fine, in contrast to this case.

[@DonJoyce]

Yes, I am working on a video regarding the Ottawa incident. Stay tuned!

[@arkhira5928]

I find it funny how this was a major incident and he was only fined $1k. Then a year later someone flies near YOW without a collision and got fined $3k. The later was still a serious issue.

[@DonJoyce]

Yes, there are some other interesting elements to the Ottawa case. Video coming soon.

[@arkhira5928]

@@DonJoyce Looking forward to it!

[@pdoffcanadian]

You can bet that if you had done that, they would have found you 100% responsible, and the proper fines would have been levied (as they should be). Love the TC report. I have read a lot of flight safety investigations, and none have ever sounded that blatantly angry 😄

[@DonJoyce]

Agreed. Yes, the all caps "REALLY?" still makes me laugh. Too bad they pulled their punch though.

[@pdoffcanadian]

@@DonJoyce My guess is that the investigator is not the one responsible for deciding which charges are laid. The investigator probably didn't return your call because he would lose his job explaining why his bosses refused to lay proper charges. Funny that they didn't make him reword that though

[@AhmadKhan-zq6cz]

Shame on them

[@billmcdonald4335]

[tippity-tap-tippy-tippity-tap-tap. . . shuffle-slide. . . tippy-tap-tap-tip-tappity. . .] The bureaucratic two-step. Puts Fred 'n' Ginger to shame. Makes me all spewy, from the spin. You must have an Iron Ear for this brand of BS, ol' man. Glad one of us does, coz somebody's gotta do the job. It's a dirty slog. Thanks, Bud.

[@DonJoyce]

LOL. As much as possible, I try to keep those dancing feet pressed to the fire!

[@wildgoobsid5]

This just shows how screwed up TC is. Typical government crap. 400 pages. Really. As a fixed wing rc pilot I’m peed off!

[@harrycraviotto2375]

Would be interesting to see the drone flight path?

[@DonJoyce]

I requested the drone flight log, but it is not being released since it is somehow evidence in the case against the trespasser!

[@harrycraviotto2375]

@@DonJoyce that seems like they have something to hide. Yet any airline pilot is always under the gun! Seems ?

[@savillian]

Wonder if a future FOI request once the case against the squatter is completed would then be released ?

[@harrycraviotto2375]

Had a pilot friend lose his airplane to a drone and never found the drone, total loss.wa.

[@GaryCameron]

You are digging up what some well placed bureaucrats want to keep buried.

[@derekcox6531]

You got that right!

[@verdundrone]

Wow, that's going to be a case law! If I fly a mavic near an airport and hit a bigger airplane, i gess I will only get charged 1000$... This is nuts !!!

[@DonJoyce]

Precedence would be a strong defense, although you would need to prove similar circumstance.

[@verdundrone]

@@DonJoyce sure, anyone involved in a plane/drone accident in BVLOS without telling anyone (NavCanada/TC/ATC) nor authorization near an aerodrome .. It tells a lot about how the problems are handeled...😵😵😵

[@verdundrone]

To me, TC lost an excellent occasion to show the drone pilot community it can handle such problems. This is pure amateurisme

[@oziumentisis]

This is why I try and stay below tree lines, the last thing I want is an incident of any sort because I know that we would be drawn an quartered as a private citizen in the public forum.

[@DonJoyce]

Well, it always pays to fly safely...the risk of being drawn and quartered aside.

[@seyanbryan520]

🍿 😎

[@stevendegiorgio3143]

The reason for that is because the police can get away with anything even other crimes.If it was an average hobbiest,that person would be fined big time and maybe even jail time.

[@barbarajoyce6865]

The plot thickens…..

[@DonJoyce]

Yeah...pretty much like concrete now.

[@Samrushtonblight]

Do as we say, not as we do...

[@jimsdroneing]

great investigation Don definately some cover up here ya one of us would have been nailed to the wall again authorities above the law

[@DonJoyce]

Thanks, Jim. Yes...we would have been.

[@zira_fluff4105]

It should be apparent to anyone that rules and especially the fines, are for little people. When authorities screw up - well that is national security and sealed investigations

[@ValerieBoyco]

My take on this incident is that the pilot was simply being a slack ass. He couldn't be bothered with procedures and checklists.

[@jamesgreig2718]

Complete cover up for YRP's incompetence

[@420SmokeJumpers]

oh suprise suprise sum more word gymnastics/corruption to support their case if where a private person they would have lambasted it them, Strong work DON!!!

[@DonJoyce]

Thank you!

[@barrylavallee]

I watched this and your previous videos related to the incident and there is something nagging me ... Assuming the picture you used in the clips is the actual damaged plane then the damage to the cowling implies impact from a vertically ascending object, not a stationary one. In my mind, if the drone was was stationary it would have come into contact with the prop first and have been shattered enough to not cause the blunt force damage as seen in the photo. That being said it can also explain why the pilot couldn't have seen a vertically ascending object under it, even though it is a high wing aircraft.

[@DonJoyce]

Hi Barry! Yes, the photo in the clips is the actual damaged plane. I have tried to get hold of the drone's flight logs but the police won't release it since it is related to the criminal investigation that was the subject of the flight....the logs would reveal if the drone was stationary as claimed or not. My assumption had been that the plane was descending and ran into the drone during that descent. The drone did hit the propeller, causing minor damage (still enough to require replacement BTW), so this would be consistent with descent and forward motion of the plane. Really hard to say.

[@MrNAMASTE1968]

Long story short, they turned a blind eye where they deemed it necessary. Very typical.

[@robertjulianagnel1100]

we the Canadian tax payers do deserve better! of the many public servants involved in this report the least paid person still made over $85K plus benefits and a pension we pay for! and this is what we get. Sad day for Canadians when we can’t trust our government to do the right thing.

[@thane5665]

If you want return for dollar spent, fire the government robots and privatize.Or pay them what the private sector receives both in wage and pension.Can you say money pit?

[@VTwin4Christ]

Let's guess... The ego of we can do whatever we want... Cuz we are the police.... That's the cause of most gov mishaps

[@flightographist]

So, Natacha is a liar as well- big surprise. York Regional Police protecting their own regardless of the impact to public safety, again big surprise.

[@DonJoyce]

I would prefer to think that she misread her own team's report. Honestly, I think they should re-issue the report with more appropriately positioned findings.

[@VTwin4Christ]

No way... Coppers flying over heavily populated areas and possibly beyond line of sight... No way. Say it isn't so...

[@00fluxone]

all the rules in the world dont prevent bad decisions or intentional bad intentions - too bad Trans Can killed the RC hobby for nothing

[@EliProductions]

That’s crazy hitting a plane full on is $1000 and a slap on the wrist! 😡