Buying Bordeaux Futures and the 2022 & 2023 Bordeaux En Primeur Prices

[@grigorhaig]

Interesting insights, Tony. Good to know.

[@TrophyWineHunter]

😀😀

[@davidkarin3443]

While at Pichon Baron last year I was able to taste the 2021 and 2022 samples. I was there in May so right around en primeur. The 2022 in my opinion were fantastic. They had power, richness, freshness and stayed light on their feet. One thing I was being told was 2021 was a wet year and the water reserves were ample to handle the dry hot year of 2022. I purchased quite a few 2022’s most of which the top 2nd growths. Two writers I really trust are Jeb Dunnuck and William Kelley. Jeb did not sugar coat the 2021 vintage but said 2022 is incredible. Let’s see if they can stand the test of time. Cheers

[@TrophyWineHunter]

david: I know what the experts say. I may be totally wrong but it is healthy to have counter opinions. Just something tells me something is not quite right with 2022. I don't doubt that they are tasting magnificent but let's see if 5 years. Somehow I can't believe Bordeaux has figured out how to handle extreme heat in 5 years...I know thye have figure out how to make wines that taste good but how they will evolve, no one quite knows. Cheers!

[@davidkarin3443]

@@TrophyWineHunter Don’t get me wrong I love different opinions. I believe good wines can be made in difficult vintages. This is the beauty of Mother Nature. Keep up the great content. Love having the discussions with you. Cheers!

[@TrophyWineHunter]

@@davidkarin3443 thanks..I can just tell you from experience. Assessing new Bordeaux wines is much different from assessing mature wines. I would venture to say that most wine critics surprisingly don't have a lot of experience assessing new Bordeaux because they taste en primeur, on release and then forget about it. It is important to taste the vintage young (like 3 & 5 years after release) so you can figure out the evolution of the wine. I have been buying new release Bordeaux since the mid 2000s so I think I have a pretty good sense of what happens to wines. I can tell you that 2022 is a vintage no one know the evolutions of. If we walked this back 20 years, it would not be a good vintage. However modern technology has helped a lot. Again, really hot years as the norm is a fairly new phenomenon in Bordeaux. I just think it is a lot to ask for winemakers to get it right in 5 years what in took them hundreds of years to get right in the past. How to deal with global warming is still experimental and not a science. 2023 actually is a vintage that they have had before in Bordeaux so it I would bank they have more idea how to deal with this vintage and where the wines are going. Cheers!

[@tarekhamid3882]

Very informative... insightful,,, SMART... many thanks for the time and effort.

[@TrophyWineHunter]

tarek: thank you for your continued support and kind words. Cheers!

[@ManuelAlaniz-b1u]

How do you about buying futures? Is there a particular site you use or do you go directly to the producer?

[@TrophyWineHunter]

Manuel: I buy futures from HDH. Cheers!

[@westgarthwines]

Thanks for sharing!

[@TrophyWineHunter]

👍👍

[@roelandbuijsse3523]

Agree on your analysis on 22. I bought 21 for the reason it’s a ‘classic’ vintage. Maybe like 04 or 08.

[@TrophyWineHunter]

roeland: good point on 2008...when it came out, people were ho hum on it but it has turned out to be a pretty good vintage. Not the best but also prices were reasonable so a drinkers vintage. I think 2023 will be like that also only on first growths, I think you can still make money as that was a huge discount for first growths, which always have inherent re-sale value. Cheers!

[@davidkarin3443]

I’m very excited for the 2021’s. I went with the big names for this campaign. Pichon Baron, Montrose, Lynch Bages, Canon, Trotanoy and Les Carmes de Haut Brion. Too much hate for those I think.

[@TrophyWineHunter]

@@davidkarin3443 😀😀

[@gfloo__]

Any recommendations on the BC Liquor Bordeaux wine flash sale? Some good discounts for value Bordeaux on the website during the flash sale. Not sure which ones would be best. Thanks

[@TrophyWineHunter]

Wait for my post on my community page on Wednesday night. I can't let it out of the bag yet. Cheers!

[@joeydecarlo2532]

I'm not in the first growth range, but I was eying the '23 Pontet Canet - the price I'm seeing is $92/bottle for 3 bottles. The ratings are still in the high 90s and that seems to always be a great wine. What do you think?

[@TrophyWineHunter]

joey: I think with 2023, you have to stick with the first growths for certain. You can pick up others if the price is right and you are buying for drinking. 2023 is a reset year so I don't think you will find wines cheaper than this vintage for awhile. Cheers!

[@joeydecarlo2532]

@@TrophyWineHunter I am definitely buying for drinking - of course that means holding on to the wines for years, but I'm 32 and am willing to do some of that long term investing for drinking!

[@barnibizer]

I bot 6 Canet...Great price. Loads of good prices after the 2022 was waaaaaay over priced.

[@TrophyWineHunter]

@@joeydecarlo2532 I don't think you will have to wait too long to drink these wines. Similar to 2017 or 2019....I think these will start drinking well in about 5-7 years after the vintage. If I were you, I would wait to see the prices of what comes out. Pontet will not be sold out so just see what else gives you deep discounts. I would look out for Carmes Haut Brion, Lynch Bages, Grand Puy Lacoste and Beychevelle. If the prices are 30+% down, I would take a stab at them. Cheers!

[@joeydecarlo2532]

@@TrophyWineHunter thanks for the advice! Yeah I'll definitely be watching for those, especially GPL!

[@justinlow1990]

Awesome insight, do you mind sharing what else you bought? I’m debating getting lafite and maybe Margaux or haut brion. What are your thoughts?

[@TrophyWineHunter]

justin: I just bought lafite, mouton and le carmes. Any of the first growths are good and as long as you can get 30%+ discount, I think it is good value in the long term. Cheers!

[@justinlow1990]

@@TrophyWineHunter ohh wow thank you for sharing your purchases! Might look into mouton as well since it’s almost the same price as HB. My concern with HB was that the alcohol level was 14.6%😬 too high? Carmes was too good to pass up especially after almost 40% from 22. Might get Pichon Lalande and montrose as well

[@TrophyWineHunter]

justin: didn't know that about HB. Most other first growths a bit lower. I have purchased HB in the last few years so that is why I decided to take a break from it this year but not really a problem with the wine, in my opinion. Cheers!

[@justinlow1990]

@@TrophyWineHunter ya definitely leaning toward lafite and Mouton whose alcohol levels are lower. Thank you again for your insight

[@TrophyWineHunter]

@@justinlow1990 😀😀

[@FridayFishFacts]

How do you buy futures in BC?

[@TrophyWineHunter]

friday: I buy futures in the US. You can buy futures from Marquis Wine Cellar I think. Cheers!

[@mzxmzx9561]

Great video as always. Btw, just curious have you ever shopped at a wine store called “Marquis Wine Cellars” in van? Thanks

[@TrophyWineHunter]

mzx: yes, it is excellent. The staff are very knowledgeable about wines and they have some great product BC Liquor Stores does not carry. They really are into wine vs profit. I would buy with confidence there. Cheers!

[@Jonnhy99]

I didn't buy much 2022 , i went for QPR but 2023 I'm interested in big time because of the prices. I'm Liking the price that Lynch released today.

[@TrophyWineHunter]

Yes, I looked at that too...great price for Lynch but I held back as want to save my money to see what else is coming out. So far I have taken Lafite and Mouton. Only looking at wines that are at least 30% off. Haut Brion is also very attractive but only have so much money to spend. Quintus is also interesting. Cheers!

[@wongjeremyyuen2226]

Any thoughts on drinking a 2006 Chateau Margaux now?

[@TrophyWineHunter]

Jeremy: I wouldn’t hesitate to open it with a good 2-3 hour decant. Of course, it will last for another 15 years by in my opinion, no need to wait on this vintage. Please like, subscribe and keep watching. Cheers!

[@jamie140]

2023 not yet offered by LCBO. I'm liking the prices I'm seeing from JJ Buckley, etc. Very helpful, thanks.

[@TrophyWineHunter]

jamie: yes, I am buying futures in the US with HDH. Our release in BC next year will be for 2021 vintage. Cheers!

[@sh.5391]

I’m feeling that 2023 may not be as good. Bordelaises really like to call a new vintage as best ever, unless it’s really not - like 18, 19, 20, 22 vs 21. I’ve not seen that in 23, which gives me a not so good sign. ‘Classic’ is one way they cover up for what it is and make it as presentable. To me, when it comes to classic, 16 should offer better quality albeit with slightly higher price (still lower than 09 or 10 though). Price-wise, 23 is comparable to 19, which again seems to have a consensus that it’s better than 23. My top choice for the last decade would be 16, 19 and 20 in that particular order. Just my humble opinion though. Appreciate what you have shared. Keep it up!

[@patrickrudiger8762]

While 2019 was a better deal certainly, 23 vintage is a lot cheaper if assessed realistically. You cannot just compare the numeric prices. You have to calculate in that between 19 and 23, a lot of inflation happened. If the wines would be equally good, the 23 should be by the usual inflation rate more expensive than the 19. That they are nearly equally priced means that in purchase power, the 23 is quite a bit cheaper.

[@TrophyWineHunter]

sh.5391 - I think you are correct. Most new vintages are always seen as great. That is what marketing is supposed to do....put on the best face. I just like the idea of getting a discount on prices, which almost never happens. So that is why I am sticking to first growths....how bad could they be? Worst case scenario is that I am stuck with first growths to drink...at low prices. To me, not a lot of downside but if vintage surprises on the upside, I have more options. Please like, subscribe and keep watching. Cheers!

[@TrophyWineHunter]

patrick: I agree...the discount on some 2023 is just too much to pass up. You do have to account for inflation and 2018 vs 2019 was down perhaps 15%. We are talking over 30% on first growths which to me is too good to pass up. Cheers!

[@Ruirspirul]

great video as usual. couple of thoughts why people might be interested in Bordeaux features, beyond buying or making money, is that people are interested in trends. for example vintage 2023 going down in prices is an indication of a trend and it is not a vintage specific. Bordeaux is going down in popularity and prices have to reflect it. no other way around it… bonus vintage rating: 2022 will be better than 2023, not as good as 2019 or 2020 but better than 2017-2018. as for 2023, it will be one of those, worst vintages of the decade😅

[@TrophyWineHunter]

llurispuir: let's pull up this video & comment in 5 years. One of us will be totally wrong! Cheers!

[@eliashabash7591]

They are also competing with the legendary 2023 Vintage in California/ Oregon Which many say might be the best EVER It will be like throwing darts on a board so if you can invest your money in futures why wouldnt you buy California 2023? why risk it with France?

[@TrophyWineHunter]

eliashabash: we have to define what you mean by "investing". If you are talking about investing, like making money on these wines on resale, that is easier to answer. There is very little market for Oregon wines on the secondary market. Even California wines, other than the top brands, only makes up small fraction of the auction market. No.1 region is still Bordeaux but it's share has been declining in the last 10 years. So Bordeaux is the most liquid wine region for resale and there is always a market for 1st growths/1st growth equivalents. If you are talking about drinking, I don't know if you can actually buy Oregon/Californian wine futures? So if you are saying you should your money for the wines you are drinking and not waste it on Bordeaux futures, yes,, I agree with this sentiment. But some people (like me) prefer Bordeaux wines so I am stuck drinking Bordeaux....because that is what I like drinking! Cheers!

[@bentobox238]

I think the real question in 2022 is how many truckloads of tartaric acid were driven around the Gironde😂

[@TrophyWineHunter]

bentobox: sorry, don't really understand the comment..must be something I don't know about some controversy in Bordeaux. Cheers!

[@bentobox238]

@@TrophyWineHunter oh sorry didn’t mean to be so opaque. There seems to be some rumours and articles floating around that there was a significant amount of tartaric acid being added to the 2022’s during ferment to “fix” the wines.

[@TrophyWineHunter]

@@bentobox238 I see...can't really confirm this but it would seem strange to try to "fix" a vintage everyone is raving about. Cheers!

[@rb1084]

What about not buying wines anymore in 2024😊

[@TrophyWineHunter]

RB: these are futures wine for investment so that is the loophole I am using! I have used a lot of loopholes already in 2024 but my buying is down quite a bit. It has really made me hesitate when buying and at least put a stop on addict like spending on wines. Plus all my friends and subscribers continue to remind me of my resolution so that also keeps my honest. Cheers!