"By 2025 all manufactures should be making 350's" Ryan Hughes explains his position on modern 450's

[@GYPSYTALES]

WATCH THE FULL PODCAST: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJ3CkKionb6agK8 LISTEN ON SPOTIFY: open.spotify.com/episode/6Fy284n0BHSUPixRw4YnIG?si=50bd41b0ce0a47d1

[@10siWhiz]

This reminds me of my time riding sleds. I went from a 440 to a 700 that would just stand up and do 100 in an instant. So many people go nuts and kill themselves.

[@verticaltwin44x]

It's a lot more fun to go fast on a slow bike than to go slow on a fast bike!

[@gagegowans668]

Big facts

[@Kyle_Nettleton41]

Amen bro. Holding a 125 wide open around a sweet outdoor track is the best feeling in the world, so much fun!!!

[@TyScott85]

So true. Same with auto racing.

[@jckeath7194]

You know the math is off when they start putting traction control on dirt bikes, x no longer equals y there's a leak.

[@johnathonbailey1597]

@@Kyle_Nettleton41 brooooo you’re so right! No better feeling then throwing a leg over a 99’ YZ or CR, shit any old 125 at that and just holding her wide open

[@TurbodanNM]

The old guys still remember the 125/250 two stroke days. It really was better back then.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

Yes it was. And the reason is that was before some government environmental groups started telling us what to make and ride. It is actually the difference between the philosophies of liberty and the free market vs communistic philosophy.

[@ryanwooster4477]

Sound better too😍

[@RileyTheGamer]

I think they should take it back to 125/250 class and 250/450 class.

[@carlatamanczyk3891]

I agree.

[@jimperry4420]

You could throw a 125 Two stroke around like a Bmx bike!

[@jeffspicoli5735]

Me trying to fit in to the conversation: The LCQ should be a full-contact pit bike race

[@fangnhoon]

Lmfao.

[@joshbarnes5784]

My dads got an awesome set of tools......😂

[@jeffspicoli5735]

@@joshbarnes5784 I can fix it

[@dallinwright221]

Yasssssss

[@streetrider11]

That's not a bad idea tho

[@ricecrash5225]

Raced at a national level in my younger years all on 2 strokes. Came back to racing as an adult and went straight to a 125. Copped a lot of crap from people on 4 strokes about being the only 2 stroke, was called a boomer a number of times. Even raced and placed consistently on my 125 in the open 450 class and had an absolute ball while doing it. Power to the ground, easy to throw around and just fun. Never raced a 450 and never felt a need to own one.

[@road2moto]

we’re on the same page. i agree 100%

[@user-se7vt5ow4e]

Ride a 300cc two stroke and you will throw rocks at your 450.

[@dr.hugog.hackenbush9443]

Bring back 500 2-strokes for outdoor races.

[@jacobhendrickson8935]

Amen!! Even more brutal than the 450!!

[@vaughanhodgson]

@@jacobhendrickson8935 no

[@jacobhendrickson8935]

@@vaughanhodgson I think they are way more brutal. Take a good spin on a well prepped 500 2 stroke.

[@foobarmaximus3506]

500cc two-strokes are WAY WAY beyond anything even a good rider would ever need or want. I used to race them back in the 80's and 90's. Believe me bro. No one really ever tames a 2-stroke 500.

[@BunnySlayer450SXF]

There is a reason there was only a handful of guys that could ride them competitively. They had to basically do away with the class because it became merely an exhibition

[@Hbomb-nm2fv]

A 350 class would honestly be excellent for the sport

[@kushpaladin]

AMA and FIM once tried to strong arm their respective rule books into regulating the maximum engine size down from 450cc to 350cc.... didn't work out and that's why you only see KTM/Husky and now GasGas making 350's

[@jpesicka492]

@@kushpaladin prob because everyone thought they were "strong arming" everyone instead of realizing they were "big braining" everyone.

[@jeremytn1]

Straight facts! Was on a 450 for 3 years and just had enough of it and decided to get back on a 250 2 stroke and fell in love with riding again, so much more fun

[@lumpy966]

Me too.

[@joslinnick]

I've never ridden a 250 two-stroke, but I did ride a 450 for a year. How much faster is a 450 than a 250 two-stroke?

[@slickbishop116]

Awww. Someone couldn’t handle it

[@bradheitz9139]

Lol Ryan is so old thinks everything going to be like like cr250 2 stroke this is why he has no involvement in this sport minus is very little training clinic that non one amateur a class or pro has ever attend he was pushed out of feld because he doesn't have a clue he's smoked so much weed and he doesn't no what's going on he's a smooth talking snake oil salesman.

[@bradheitz9139]

@@slickbishop116 facts bunch of idiots here ryhno power is also shit nobody uses it anymore for a reason

[@onlygazza]

Two fifty two strokes rule, bring em back 👌

[@kylegreen378]

I agree man. Counterbalanced 250 2 strokes are the best engines for dirtbikes I think.

[@mrmotocross6819]

Honda and kawasaki and suzuki should bring back the 2 stroke. Sales would spike

[@dericadams6139]

Exactly what I thought when he said the 450s are too fast. I thought we’ll shit you want it to be more safe and see the skill of the riders bring back the 250 2 stroke

[@robertgully9492]

Just bought a beautiful 04 RM250 about a month ago and it absolutely rips. Perfect weight and power.

[@blinxkyanalyst5053]

@Louis Smithson-Oaks I see what ur saying but those electric bikes are auto and have one gear , how would that rlly be any fun or competitive?

[@Fatonzzz]

I had serious reservations, but at 48 I just bought my first 450 (2022 KX450) after 4 seasons on a 2018 Husky 350. I like to ride in the low rpm part of the power curve and be as smooth and as in balance as possible. I also have limited mobility in my right wrist due to old injuries and a recent surgery, so the more aggressive riding style required of the 350 just doesn't suit me as well as this 450 seems to. Also, as someone who keeps a bike 3+ years, I appreciate the longer maintenance/service intervals of the 450. I probably shouldn't compare a 2018 350 to a 2022 450, but this 450 (with stock suspension) is hands down the smoothest and easiest bike to ride MX that I have ever experienced. Especially with the black coupler on our dry and slippery local track. It is much too early to tell, but at this point I have no interest in ever going back to a 350.

[@Jake-bt3fc]

Getting a bigger bike because your wrist hurts too much to twist the throttle and get the rpm up is hilarious.

[@Fatonzzz]

@@Jake-bt3fc About as hilarious as your interpretation of my comment lol.

[@M14armorer]

Huge respect for anyone getting on a Moto track at nearly 50yrs of age.

[@timmwhite9218]

@@M14armorer I'm gonna be 66y.o. and getting back into Senior Class MX locally.

[@glockdude5472]

My 4 stroke needed valve replacement quite often and that’s nearly $500. All my buddies on their 4’s were constantly doing insanely expensive work just to ride it. Two strokes, all you’ll need is a new plug here and there and the occasional top end (which is still half the price of valves). I bought a 4 and ended to going back to a two smoker.

[@michellemaher6144]

Bring back the two strokes and back to what made the sport great.

[@niccoloaliboni7711]

Fact: Tony Cairoli won 5 mxgp championships on a 350.

[@Iwasthewalrus]

Never even put thought to that before.

[@jimmygritz9714]

The hottest 350 ever built for sure tho.

[@S0RELOSER]

350, then 390, and eventually I think he settled on a 410. I dont think he’s ever raced a true 450 much.

[@matthewwest1262]

Its not until 2016 or 17 he ran the 450sxf i remeber reading something saying he didnt have the technique for a 450

[@S0RELOSER]

@@matthewwest1262 he often raced bikes badged as 450. But they had custom displacements. He was on a 350 back during his Yamaha days.

[@881Gino]

Bring back the 2-smokers! Fun to ride, sound sick, smell mint and awesome racing.

[@carlatamanczyk3891]

And if you use bean oil or Klotz they smell sweet.

[@russel419]

I would love to see Japanese 350s!

[@Upthebroncos310]

100%, if Kawi made a 350 I’d buy it, my 250 is good but being a bigger guy I think the 350 would be that nice medium in between for me, I’m not skilled enough to ride a 450. I can ride one and have ridden one but it’s not that fast

[@JohnHowerton137]

They used to do it. They’ve been out of touch with their consumers for 40 years, that’s why the Austrian group took over.

[@justinwhittaker3819]

@@JohnHowerton137 Bc people still want 2 strokes and they don’t listen so it gave the Austrians a way in

[@JohnHowerton137]

@@justinwhittaker3819 that's part of it for sure. They basically don't listen to anything. Look at the ADV & Dual Sport markets. Talk about out of touch with consumers 🤣

[@irelandssons]

Imagine a 2 stroke Honda CR 350

[@Driftuner]

Well there are always two sides to a story. As a racer 15+ years ago (and his points are coming from/as a racer) i totally agree with him. Even after 5 trophies i still couldnt handle 450s. But one day i took a friends CRF450X for a little walk in the local woods, and on that day i finally understood 450s: they are great when you are NOT racing. If you use that engine like you would ride a street bike, which is 80% of the time using only about 20% of the available powerband, then they make a lot of sense. I had so much fun just cruising through the woods and popping wheelies all over the place with that 450, i probably never even revved that engine past 5k on that day, and it was a lot of fun. When i went racing, i went straight back to my KXF250, but i would take a 450X cruising through the woods every day man....its the "racing mindset" that create problems, not the engine...

[@foobarmaximus3506]

I rode the 450 in the A class until I was 50. That was almost 10 years ago. Ryno is correct... most guys should NEVER have a 450. I saw a lot of weekend warriors die, or end up paralyzed. It was heartbreaking. The average person has no business on a blown-out 450cc dirt bike. I salute Ryno for telling it like it is.

[@extremedf53]

100 percent correct

[@chuckferrell2498]

But this is where people should know where they’re experienced or not! I raise protection dogs, I won’t sell a dog to just anyone and there’s certain dogs for certain people! I call idiots that buy these and die! Thinning of the herd. I don’t ride, I wouldn’t go buy a 450 for my first bike. So this is where common sense should come into play.

[@monrow11]

What’s a lot? And did they die because they were on a 450? You can still go fast as hell on a 250.

[@wiiumad1342]

Girls race 450s men race 500 2ts

[@graemebartmann7872]

Gear a 450 higher,make sure your suspension is on point.Anybody can ride a 450.Ride a gear high,and fan the clutch.It's 4 stroke goddamit.☝️Not like the light switch 2 stroke 500's we used to ride,back in the day 🙈

[@GoldCountryTrapping]

"The 450 has outgrown the stadium".....Word!

[@dangrimes5078]

There's only one gold country that I know of and that's Northern Ca. Sierra foothills. Like Coloma.

[@solcalsteve198]

All my Vet friends that ride 450s have been hurt bad. Thanks for speaking the truth. I gave up my CRF450 for a 250 2stroke and haven't had to go the hospital and smile ever time i ride it.

[@bradheitz9139]

Pros have traction control no they don't it's band you washed up drug addict.

[@OldManEnduro]

The 20 dislikes are definitely dudes who don't belong on a 450 and they know it.

[@realmotos6024]

😂😂 perfect🤟

[@dirtroads.sandycoves]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@utubetrutharrowmichael-and9105]

Ouch 🐗

[@garrettmuir4150]

lmao im on a 450 and i dont belong, i can admit that haha

[@gamebred5662]

I've been riding for 20 years. Bought a 450 after riding a 250 for 15 years. Sold it after a month. As this guy says it's TO fast. I'd much rather ride a 250 at its limit which is a blast rather than ride a 450 at half pace. Not to mention they're heavy as hell. Don't get me wrong, they're a blast when you're out in the open but on a track they're useless. Even for a very experienced rider.

[@cmoney0129]

I rode a couple early 2000s 450s, and one thing I liked a lot is that they go through heavy sand and mud like it's absolutely nothing. They definitely require a good level of throttle control, but they will go through anything and clear any jump imaginable. They are heavier though, so you gotta be careful there aswell. If you have experience and self control, it will be survivable and maybe fun depending on where you're riding. At least that's my take personally.

[@andrewpereira1117]

They most certainly have a place but should be sold with caution to beginners lol I know it has warning labels but no one reads those 🤣

[@wheels.and.wrenches]

The new 450s are 30% faster than the 450s from 20 years ago. Its ridiculous. The Yamaha 250F is even ridiculously fast.

[@nathancrittenden8525]

Yeah the 250f bikes now won't be putting out far off what the early 450s where you can't even compare to the modern bikes

[@Theairguitarguy]

This hits home so much. A mate of mine had not ridden in years and got a ktm450exc. I warned him not to, and told him to get a 250. He whisky throttled in the enduro and hit a tree head on. Died.

[@mastermnd22]

Because he couldn't have done the same on a 250?

[@Ruckshuk4101]

No because he could’ve reacted differently On a 250, he may have been able to gain control on a 250 because it wouldn’t have been so rapid acceleration.

[@chrisvillarreal2752]

@@Ruckshuk4101stop being delusional they both pull hard af nowadays one you ride calm collected and focused the other you ride charged. Knowing the difference is key.

[@Ruckshuk4101]

@@chrisvillarreal2752 true they both hella fast

[@chrisvillarreal2752]

@@Ruckshuk4101 hells yeah they hit the same exact jumps in supercross so you know damn well those 250 horses can fly at a moments notice.

[@MEANISSHOW]

God I miss the era when the yz250's were king. Best era of motocross

[@bondalero0074]

Yes, Jeremy McGrath in the 90’s and Ricky Carmichael in 2000’s on the 250 2-strokes are the reason we even bothered to be interested in MX!#G.O.A.T.#🐐#250/2-stroke@MEANISSHOW

[@richardclegg5853]

185 lbs, 57 years old and ridden motorcycles for 50 years of em, LOVE my FE 350... and favorite all time bike? My old 200 EXC

[@S0RELOSER]

I love my 350’s. Im still fine with others having the option. Nothing is stopping Eli from sleeving down his KX.

[@Dashriprock4]

You just described me to a tee. Also 57 years old and on a 250F which I truly love. My 200EXC was still one of my favorite woods bikes.

[@mlane2012]

Your exactly right. Racing was way more fun to watch when it was 2 strokes. The English you had to put on the bike to get it over a jump, that was the most exciting part to me.

[@foobarmaximus3506]

Yeah, it's fun until you miss it by 3ft. LOL

[@blakesmith172]

Amen, I recently started riding a 450 and things get scary fast. I really did not understand how much more of a beast I would be dealing with at the time.

[@two_toned_rooster]

I raced for 5 years. I’m a heavier guy (was 185-205lbs when I raced) so I went between 250t’s and 250f’s, the 250f was more fun but I needed the 250t to keep up with lighter riders on hills. My dad had the idea that maybe I would be faster on a 450 so I went to a 2019 yz450f. I was always a really stable rider and didn’t crash a lot, my 250f for example went 40 hrs of moto before I dropped it the first time. Within 25 hours on the 450 I jumped though a chain link fence, tomahawked it through some whoops, dropped it in more corners than I’d like to admit and then had my career ender- flying 100ft on a 70ft double because I got bounced and blipped the throttle on the face. Went back to the 250t after I healed up and had no further issues but that stretch of crashes took the fun out of riding for me. I finished the season and never really went back to riding.

[@timmwhite9218]

Yep, my experience was about the same but it all went bad for me on a mountain bike. The speeds are so slow on the hilly, loamy, and sandy areas I rode that you kinda get complacent. No safety gear at all was how I rode, just using it as a workout while out of town on a long term job, staying in a motel (keeping a dirt bike and all my gear in there was NOT an option!) Anyway, when pressed for time, I'd stay in close to town and ride mostly stairs and parking lot stuff...the stairs (more specifically parting company with the bicycle at the top of the stairs😮‼️) was what got me. Busted vertebrae, tore open head with many stitches, etc. Motocross and cross country/trail riding is kinda behind me now😪

[@glockdude5472]

I rode my two smoke for years without any serious injuries and then I went to a 4 stroke and broke my leg in 7 places racing arenacross.

[@ianthompson043]

I love this, you see these pros on the 450's hop on a 125 or 250 2 stroke and you can tell they are having way more fun! Dirt bikes are about having fun!

[@penttij5817]

Tomac ripping on his KX 250 2-stroke on his practice track, beautiful video.🇺🇸

[@marcusbarnes5929]

It's because a 250cc 2 stroke hits so hard all at once and steers with the rear it's more involved to hold speed and try to get traction. A 450cc 4 stoke is a lazy man's bike smooth power but easier to go fast less gear changing less braking to do no clutch needed out of turns.

[@Bravetruckparts]

It’s impressive the way Ryan describe the differences between 4 and 2 strokes riding style, suspension, flow, throttle. Thank you for this content.

[@mattburnett4185]

Its too fast, its too dangerous... this guy is a marketing genius, he just sold me on buying one!

[@dakotadickens3747]

I haven’t rode in 10 years and then my wife’s family all races and I wanted to get back into it. So I bought an 09 kx450f. I haven’t killed myself yet but when I get on it I know how much power it has. 3rd gear spins are shifts on dirt and asphalt. Their really to much to be on the average market I do believe. I seen a guy on a gas gas 450 trail bike and it’s so much more mellow than my motorcross bike. Just the engine mapping could save lives

[@jpesicka492]

@@dakotadickens3747 trail bike usually detuned compared to mx bikes tho

[@motoxrider4life745]

Love Ryan Hughes. Always Honest and Tells it like it is!!

[@xxnrossixx]

I love my 450 and it takes a lot of throttle control to keep it under me...but Ryan is right once you try to be fast on it is when you start loosing control of it. It’ll man handle you real quick if your not careful. Especially because I do some woods riding with mine too. Haha I can’t get over being able to just crack throttle and wheelie over waterbars or rocks or whatever I don’t want my front wheel to hit at times though. Things a blast!

[@scotttam7491]

Just bring back 250 two strokes.

[@steticbrah5609]

Those things are as fast if not faster than a 450 man

[@hankschrader149]

@@steticbrah5609 ok then bring back the 500 2 strokes!

[@billyconley1515]

@@steticbrah5609 uhhhhhh no

[@BigUranium238]

...says Ronnie Mac🤣

[@mxer4life25]

@@steticbrah5609 they're really not. 450's are insanely powerful. 250 2-strokes are way more manageable

[@waygonner]

I’m 42 and a big dude and got back into the sport a couple years ago after riding for the whole decade of the 90’s. The KTM 350 was a no brainer and it is so fun to ride. Couldn’t agree more with this take.

[@adamrochester1]

What’s the weight bro

[@randal3122]

ya i have a yz250f and am about to get a new 350 sxf. heard nothing but good things about them

[@riccochet704]

Funny thing is the modern 350's have the same, or more, power of the 450's just 10 years ago.

[@jarrodhartley9575]

Always been a 250 guy and spent some good times on 450’s. few years back i found a 2016 350sxf for sale that was too good to pass up and it’s probably the most fun I’ve had on a bike period. I wish more of the Japanese manufacturers would jump on the 350 bandwagon

[@stevesteele3312]

Same goes for the road, and even the track. I ride a RVF400 because I can ride it like a mad man on the track with out thinking about controlling the bike, just think about my surroundings and hitting my marks. Then ride it home and actually able to open it up and have a little fun with out losing my license instantly. Anything bigger is not only too much for my skill, I think about controlling the bike more than my surroundings when I open it up.

[@microsoft790]

Omg you have an rvf400? That must be an insanely fun bike to ride. My 650 four was just a hair too fast when I was trying to push it.

[@jasonjavelin]

My favorite bike is the KDX 200 2 stroke. Plenty of power for my environment and 2 stoke is just sick. It’s an all around fun bike even if it’s not the fastest

[@Mike-dn4ju]

Great bike!! Even for a bigger rider, it’s fun to toss around, especially tight technical areas.

[@JB4KE]

I had a 2003 220r for two years. One of the best bikes I've ever owned

[@gutstompenrocker]

I had the KDX 250, what a tractor.

[@MOTO809]

I grew up on a 92 200. That same bike even hauled my 220 lbs and gear across the states twice on the Continental Divide Trail, 2016 and 2017. My dad still has the bike, and rode it 72 miles on Fathers Day. It has 6,500 miles on it... all stock save the FMF Fatty.

[@chabat124]

I have a 1988 and a 2000 KDX200. I am old, not a skilled rider, but they are fun.

[@Bodie2020]

It’s so crazy listening to Ryno. He is talking 100 how I’ve thought and taught people. But I’m a lowly no name rider from the mountains on east coast. It’s very refreshing to hear

[@Bravetruckparts]

So do I

[@E63s_Scott]

I’ve been on a 350 for the past 5 years, a 17 350 and now 20 350. It’s a dream to ride

[@PatrickMoto97]

How often do you have to redo cranks? I’m cheap. I’m holding onto my 450 because I figure since I run lower rpm I’ll go through cranks less often.

[@diychad7268]

Ktm??

[@E63s_Scott]

@@PatrickMoto97 i did 105 mostly fast amateur racing hours hours on my 17 350 on the first standard piston, oops, finally got around to it and it was mint when i took it out, zero issues over the 170hrs I owned that bike, engine wise. I did oj a an awkward jump and blew the air fork seals about 20hrs and swapped to a spring conversion but they massively improved the forks for the new models, they don't have that issue. Im Now 50hrs in on my 2020 and again zero issues so far. The KTMs are the most reliable bikes in our paddocks each year

[@E63s_Scott]

@@diychad7268 yeah both ktms a 17 and 20 350

[@CameronPerdue]

I’d buy a Yammy YZ350f tomorrow if they had one

[@grigorirasputin996]

Me too! I'd also be real interested in a yz300x enduro two stroke.

[@guyonthecouch136]

Drop the f and I'd buy one too

[@JH-AFC1886]

My 2021 CRF450R is fun even though I’m a beginner/intermediate. Right wrist rules, only use what you need when you need it.

[@doublez724]

Ryan Hughes. The man who tough me "don't meet your heroes" before I had ever heard the saying. Good to see he has not changed.

[@xd_gangster693]

the 350s would probably give the rookies coming off the 250s an easier time to adjust

[@wheels.and.wrenches]

It would be beneficial in many many ways

[@yzfplt]

Love my YZ450F, don’t race much anymore but love getting up in the hills, run a mellow map and ride it well- gear up and chug like a tractor, then the power is always there when you’re doing a big hillclimb or just want to send it. Also have my 98 YZ400F which feels so mellow and a heap of fun to ride, whereas back in it’s day it felt like an animal to the teenage me that started racing on one 🤙 Great poddy and love bringing in Ryno’s advice to my riding, that’s probably bought the fun back to riding to me the most as I get older

[@moto2103]

If Yamaha makes a 350 I’m ALL OVER that bike

[@bradmarshall8363]

If people like this carry on 450s will be in the history books like the 500 2 strokes adapt the tracks and stadiums for the bikes

[@samblack5313]

I’m a big guy, 270ish, tall. Got back into riding after a long time off. I raced dirt, done road track days, owned 1000cc bikes. They set me up with a KTM 450 with all the go fast bits. It’s a LOT of bike. Fun and awe inspiring, but definitely much more than needed. I decided that much power was better off as a motard, and what a beautiful thing that was. Moved it on so my license didn’t move on.

[@riclarkdo]

Even Cole Seely mentioned here on a podcast about how the 450's have too much power

[@SOLDOZER]

Brian Deegan said it too.

[@dylanstein8286]

one of the things i love that you guys said was that there are sooo many people on 450s right now that shouldn’t be riding 450s. Like a few of my buddys have them and they aren’t even focusing on going fast, their main focus while riding is keeping control of the bike. My yz125 keeps up with them only because you can’t try to go fast on those 450s or you could die, meanwhile i can really charge and go fast on the 125. They are just crazy animals that are so hard to control. They are just ridiculous at this point.

[@bloomerb4162]

I think 250 two stroke is enough power and still enjoyable to ride for someone who rides for fun. I just rode a 450 for first time couple weeks ago and I was scared. Never felt that way on any other bike but I never rode a 500 two.

[@dylanstein8286]

@@bloomerb4162 exactly, they are plenty and it actually requires a bit of rider skill to ride, meanwhile the four strokes don’t require too much rider skill

[@bloomerb4162]

@@dylanstein8286 it's good for people who can't corner, they can still make the jumps.

[@dylanstein8286]

@@bloomerb4162 yeah exactly

[@Shoorit]

Not everyone who throws their leg over a bike is looking to go as fast as the bike can go. Most people do this for fun and a 450 is fun. I ride a 450 and don’t use it like Tomac or Roczen. There is no evidence that a 450 can hurt you anymore than a 250 either.. this sport is a dangerous sport.

[@Floboyzlad17]

seeing those 450 on the straights in atlanta was absolutely nuts, these guys are hitting 50-60mph and then hitting a 180 bowl turn in 2 seconds, it looks like they're riding a bull

[@RyanMcIntyre]

Not quite, average supercoss speeds are only around 25mph with top speeds around 45.

[@shrimpshow5458]

@@RyanMcIntyre nah man at Atlanta they were around 60 mph man

[@shrimpshow5458]

@@RyanMcIntyre but every other track yes Atlanta was just fast and wide open

[@RyanMcIntyre]

@@shrimpshow5458 and you know that figure for a fact how?

[@shrimpshow5458]

@@RyanMcIntyre 3rd gear pinned on a 450 is 60 mph and I watched them at high point this year they never let off I’d say they were running over 65-70 at some parts at high point especially the big quad at Atlanta watch there helmet cams in practice in some of those sessions they were fucking getting it man you must not ride the track much

[@mistacoz]

I had a crf450 back in about 2005 and just rode at practice tracks for fun. I mainly rode street bikes and have ridden some ridiculously fast sports bikes but that crf450 was the most bonkers thing I've twisted a throttle on. Fun to ride but probably not to race.

[@thatcherramsey1440]

what kind of street bike have you ridden? just curious

[@MEQUPWER]

they are then time faters now bro that was almost 20 years ago!

[@rickrossi4468]

RYNO WISDOM : PRICELESS amazing again! Great job driving the story line and allowing Ryan to open up, again. Probably easier than most to steer the result. Thanks Jase. See the channel growing your work ethic is appearing. Good on you. Really enjoy content. I am the same person that said turn Diffy and Ricky off and you guys commentate the races with the cameras on the BIG SCREEN. We are all doing the same thing while watching SX races, so let's do on the podcast. Then compare live viewers and decide. Not shitting mate! If anybody can pull it off: it's you. All in!

[@anthonymoreno57]

I completely agree. After riding my CRF 250RX for a year I thought I’d be “cool” by getting a 450. Rode one at a track and it completely manhandled me. Shortly after I made the right decision to buy a cylinder works 270cc big bore kit and a full PC exhaust system to boost the power/torque numbers. It’s currently in the shop right now and can’t wait to ride it. Great job on the podcast, keep this good shit coming! Cheers!

[@BrokeDown724]

300 two strokes All ama bikes have to have stock motors I think Carey hart said something like this and it just made so much sense

[@carisi2k11]

I think you will find they are stock motors and that the stock bikes are detuned compared to what they race so I don't think that will solve anything. 350F or 400F is probably the best way forward. rename the 250 class to the 250 class and bring in a junior lites class for up to 19 years of age for 125T or 180F bikes.

[@bradheitz9139]

@@carisi2k11 you are a fool please stay away from the sport

[@montane_west]

Agreed 💯%

[@gunsandrotors8704]

Agreed stock motor...the factory motors are no way near stock.. 15 years ago some factory motors made 70hp+...

[@quantumtechcrypto7080]

Huh? You actually ride right??

[@Shoorit]

I’ll raise my hand.. I’m that guy on a 450 who doesn’t need a 450 having fun and wouldn’t change it for a 350.

[@Shoorit]

@Pete good one. Maybe one day when you stop giving a crap how fast everyone is you’ll enjoy yourself.

[@joseaklx300r6]

Amen im 44 i have a 250 and i have a blast

[@themotocrossmodchannelWulfMX]

@@Shoorit So I have been racing the local NESC circuit up in New England for the past 25 yrs..back when it was 125/250/500 2 strokes, all the way til today..(Im 52 today so I ride the VET)...and I have had 250f,350f, and my current bike is a 2020.5 Rockstar 450 and the only track I can ride it where it really opens up to where it comes close to it's potential is Southwick, which is like beach sand. It is like cheating with the amount of power that is on tap. At Southwick, the motor will bog down were it is actually working and I can get out of 3rd gear for a while, but all other tracks it is very short bursts of power and to avoid a handful, I get it into 3rd gear and lug around all day..what would really be a good change is to make a 350 that doesn't make all its power at 13.5k where it currently makes like 55 hp, its too high of an rpm and is like a 250 2 stroke but better,,they can do this with some engine design changes in relation to bore x stroke with new cam profile and exh but they don't bc the test rider and big wigs who makes the choices analyze marketing metrics based on what they feel will sell the best, with the best margin for profit, not what is best for the customer in terms of what they like.

[@stephenwolinski4651]

@@themotocrossmodchannelWulfMX true a 450 at cccmx is alittle to much

[@themotocrossmodchannelWulfMX]

@@stephenwolinski4651 Im a lifetime member there and it is just throttle, chop, back on, off, etc,,it fun to play on the jumps but when I spend more time trying to slow down and brake for the jumps, its just too much bike for that layout.

[@rogerholguin5911]

I went from a cr 500 to a 450,I thought it was smoother.alot more control.but way better suspension.he has a great point on track size .back in the day outdoor racing had longer flowing tracks .built for the bigger bikes.now it like driving a dragster in a garage.

[@snakepliskin1185]

I saw the fastest racer in my area get hurt when his 450 flew too far onto an upslope and then bounced 15-20' straight up into the air. When he came down his mid section landed right on the bars. He was winning, then had to take the ambulance. The old MX tracks are too small for the modern 450s.

[@nikolasgibson3438]

Holy shit, this guy has the greatest understanding of the mechanics of dirtbikes. He verbalizes it all so well. I can only afford 1 bike that has to do dunes, highways, singletrack, moto, and so on, so I got a WR450. Fucking terrifying and dangerous on motocross, I should be on a 125 at my skill set.

[@antoniogalvan8488]

I installed a G2 throttle tamer on mine and it changed my perspective on the bike. It does have the power when you need it. Combined with a Tubliss setup, changes everything. :)

[@rileyholz1074]

out of all the languages, this man chose to speak facts

[@derekhealey8515]

The last supercross series I watched was 2005. I miss the 2stroke vs 4stroke battle. Get that going again.

[@jonruger]

It wasn’t competitive that’s why it ended lol the 250s got smoked. Ricky tried to hold out for a bit so did Chad but they made the switch like everyone else to stay fast. Rickys perfect outdoor season was on a 450 for a reason.

[@derekhealey8515]

@@jonruger Supercross buddy. Pretty sure a 250 won that year easily. Nothing to do with outdoors.

[@jonruger]

@@derekhealey8515 yeah even in supercross that was the last year for a reason and 250s are slow compared to a 450 sorry to hurt your feelings with facts the only reason some guys rode them in supercross that year was they were still worried they were to heavy but KW proved that wrong and almost everyone followed the next year

[@jonruger]

@@derekhealey8515 all the people that think like you need to get with the times because electric bikes are about to make all gasoline bikes obsolete once government decides dirt bikes are to bad for the environment they will go all electric or die. So stop begging for oil burning bikes that are terrible for the environment because that just makes environmental agencies want to add more restrictions.

[@derekhealey8515]

@@jonruger outdoors yeah 450's way quicker. Politics is why the strokers were ousted. Show me lap time comparisons in supercross.??

[@spcneary]

So true, I briefly owned a ktm 450exc and sold it for this exact reason. Riding it on the street was about keeping the front end down below 60mph, keeping it from death wobbling above 70mph, and valve adjustments any other time lol. I don't understand why supermoto 450s are popular beyond the power being ludicris.

[@Hanibul_Lecktor]

Death wobble is a suspension tuning issue, nothing to do with the bike's traits. Too stiff front and or rear shock.

[@foobarmaximus3506]

@@Hanibul_Lecktor Please, dude. There are several issues that can cause a high-speed wobble. You have no idea what his bike was like. Could be anything from wheel imbalance to swingarm bearings to .... anything.

[@TimberTramp]

Natural terrain “free riding” won’t be the same on a 350

[@ZULUXXXMAUI]

I respect your knowledge ryno. I love the 250F but it doesn’t last. I can’t afford to put a new top end in every 6 months. I have settled on a buying stock 450 every 4 years and never touching it other than fluid changes. With the custom tuning technology available now you can mellow the power out and make it linear and not overwhelming. If I was rich I would rip a 250f to shreds but I just can’t afford to rebuild my motor twice a year.

[@mprud2579]

Spot on mate !!!!!!!! 250fs dont last as long

[@motoing32]

How often does a novice rider need to replace a top end on a 250f?

[@ZULUXXXMAUI]

@william hummerick I rebuild my 125 2 stroke top end every year. But it costs less than $200 & can I do it myself

[@foobarmaximus3506]

That's why he is saying a 350. Best of both worlds for amateur racers and riders.

[@foobarmaximus3506]

@@ZULUXXXMAUI If you race a two-smoke 125, you're going to rebuild the top-end twice a month. Or more if you actually practice 3-4 days a week. And if you don't do that, you should not be racing. Just ride and rebuild it when it blows. Clean your filter every ride and it might last a year.

[@brannonpardue1358]

Ken Roczen’s crash, he had some much torque drive and compression that it just slung him into outer space. They are crazy powerful But you can never have enough power lol

[@rickalyssa]

We need 350's, "you know what I'm sayin"

[@Boomhower89]

The old ones were tough to handle for me. My friend had a IT465 that he had bored out. I rode a YZ250 the old yellow models. They were a blast and had a ton of power. I tried riding his 465 and it was to much for me. I can’t imagine what these new ones are like.

[@collinmc90]

ah man I would kill for one of those old YZ250s lol. Just an awesome bike.

[@dealspeed6756]

I remember back when I bought my 2014 CRF450 I read all the motocross 450 shootouts and as a Honda guy I was happy to learn that the CRF was the slowest of the bunch, Motocross action hated that the bike only made 53HP and you had to ride the bike in the lower rpms because the bike made no power beyond 8300 rpms which was the point, Honda wanted an easy to ride 450.

[@theread3480]

All those shootouts are always from a pro racer’s perspective and never from the perspective of the average weekend warrior

[@LordHolley]

I've had a ton of different bikes, one of my favourites was my crf 250 with a 280 bb kit. The bike was light, flickable, and that extra little bit of CC gave it the perfect grunt. Could ride it all day and not get tired.

[@McwacNasty]

Hell yea Rino, 350’s and 2 strokes.

[@fafh716]

I’ve always love Ryan! He was a top 3 favorite when I was growing up. Such a smart, genuine human being

[@CombativeSpynx]

The 450 being “to big” for the stadiums actually makes allot of sense too. Paired with the advancements in bike tech vs the riders keeping up he makes some valid points. Id probably hop on a buddies 450 and just ride it around the track once or twice rolling stuff instead of jumping since its to much power for me

[@oldbblazzurk7858]

No bro try to keep the ref down and gears up and it wil smoothly bring a smile on your face I’ll bet , It’s a flow you need to get jused on but when you got it you’ll actually going to be pretty fast with almost no bark it’s still a lot of work they are heavy but I’m never going back

[@CombativeSpynx]

@@oldbblazzurk7858 i said what i did cause im a new rider, and i dont want to hurt someone else 450. been watching allot of the gypsy tales podcasts got meinto racing

[@travisstoneking4049]

I guess that’s why crf150 and the 80’s are so much fun to ride ✊

[@TheNickers69]

I miss riding my 150 it was such a fun beast to hit everything 4th gear tapped, made going to a 250 extremely easy

[@mikedempsey7804]

Interesting take on the 450's...but yes, they have A LOT OF POWER and if you aren't careful, you get hurt. Perhaps Ryan is right, make the 350 the big bore bike, and I think taking the 250's down to 200 cc's may work to gap the performance between the two classes. I do wish the tracks were a little old school as seen in the Supercross 80's videos that can be seen. Always like an interesting guy with opinions, Ryan Hughes is my type of guy!

[@Upthebroncos310]

I’ve always said I wish the Japanese manufacturers would build a 350, I would definitely buy one.

[@AverageJosh769]

A husqvarna 350 isnt a bad bike with a set of tires, my buddy has one and it rips and does really good on the trails

[@nathancrittenden8525]

What's wrong with the Austrian ones

[@Joelontugs]

When you hit people in the pride is when it hurts I think a lot of people don’t want to admit they can’t handle the bike

[@metaomicron72]

Man I dont ride, Im 25 and I would probably vet either a 125 2 stroke or 250 4T. Enough for me

[@AlphanumericCharacters]

I hadn’t ridden in forever. Walked into the dealer expecting to get a 450 to haul my big ass around. This video is the exact advice I got from the sales guys. It was like a team of them descended to tell me I’d kill myself.

[@graemebartmann7872]

And all modern day bikes are light ☝️

[@andjusticeforall2893]

My cousin married a guy who's 300 pounds 6'7" and he told me he couldn't even handle one of those

[@jamesgeorge6551]

I liked my KDX200 as an all around fun dirt bike. Light and fast enough, reliability like an anvil.

[@TTTR1GGER]

I loved mine too...best bike ever

[@mountainmonkey172]

You sure hear a lot of pro riders that also say the bikes are too powerful.

[@blubug768]

Ya, didnt Barcia ride a stock (engine) yz because the factory engine was too much.

[@bradheitz9139]

@@blubug768 lol u idiots

[@jonathondavis170]

@@blubug768 Actually NO, he didn't ride a stock engine...a matter of fact that was the problem, Factory Yamaha would NOT let the pros even start with a stock platform - like at ALL!!! :)

[@movaughn20]

100%! Plus there retailing over $10k for a 450 now...

[@welderlogic1806]

My '99 yzf was $5800 brand new. It's crazy now.

[@brennanlabar2296]

@@welderlogic1806 $5,800 in 1999 is just over $9,200 in 2021 accounting for inflation sooooooo

[@KJ-ym1qg]

@@brennanlabar2296 yep, and the technology and power on the bikes now are light years ahead.

[@bradheitz9139]

Lol Ryan is so old thinks everything going to be like like cr250 2 stroke this is why he has no involvement in this sport minus is very little training clinic that non one amateur a class or pro has ever attend he was pushed out of feld because he doesn't have a clue he's smoked so much weed and he doesn't no what's going on he's a smooth talking snake oil salesman.

[@welderlogic1806]

@@brennanlabar2296 by my calculation the cost should be $8,900. That means the cost of the bikes is outpacing inflation. Especially when they cost well over ten Grand and wages haven't matched inflation.

[@paulnoel7558]

I really enjoy the perspective of Ryan, I have been in the motorcycle industry for over 20 years and have felt for years that the 450 is way to much bike. KTM is the only company so far I believe that see's this need. It would absolutely make for better racing and a safer sport overall for riders of all levels.

[@Ritalie]

I wish this guest was on every other week, I want to hear him do rants on everything. One of the best rants on motorcycles in the history of motorcycles. Just amazing. Almost like a legendary speech, this video clip should be in a museum! Caveat: The last part about the 500 two strokes didn't quite make sense. I think the reason the 500 two strokes worked is because people were insane, first and foremost, and also because all racing was too fast before they restricted it. In every form of racing, it peaked in the 1980's, and had to be restricted, and they are still restricting classes today, like in drag racing the allow Harley engines to be much larger for the motorcycle class, but limit the 4 cylinders. They blocked 2 strokes in "Moto-GP" road racing completely in the 1990's. In the past, the riders were not nearly as sophisticated and the sport wasn't as developed and they were in an experimental phase with the 500 2 strokes, because they weren't really even around that long, only about 15 years in their peak, before being switched to 250 class. It's time to reduce 450's to 250's. No need for a 350. A 350 is still too big. Make the riders have to actually use the engine, and it would be far more exciting.

[@williamschuman4951]

I love my KX 450, it’s so smooth then when you hit the sand wash’s all the power you want, yep I ride my 450 just how you explain it, it works perfectly for me.

[@alitty3224]

Nice!

[@rmz250k7]

Well yeah, sand is about the only place where a 450 comes in handy. On dirt, we are all quicker on 250s lol

[@MrKdr500]

as the old saying goes, a good rider can go fast on a slow bike but slow riders can only talk about how fast their bike is....

[@F.O.GOnABike]

The current crop of 450s, after Rynos comment about Eli "not racing, just trying to control the bike" absolutely describe the status of the sport. Looking at racing in the current era, its almost akin to watching 500cc GPs back in the mid 80s to 90s, watching guys like Wayne Gardner, Kevin Schwantz Wayne Rainey and the like literally STRUGGLE to race them. Watch the film "The Unrideables", how these current SX riders have to ride, is like looking back at the glory days of GPs. Yes, technology advances, bikes get faster, but as Ryno says, if a rider, who is at the top of his game ADMITS he is out there not trying to race but just merely TRYING to keep the bike upright and not spitting him off down the track, maybe manufacturers need to look at making riding bikes fun for the riders again. This is why the old 500cc 2 stroke MX bikes went away because not many riders could actually ride them properly (like Ryno, JMB, Stanton and Wardy) and were pretty much just out on the race track trying to survive.

[@joshnc101]

I seem to remember seeing Jeff Ward mentioning in a past interview that they were detuning the 500 2t to make it more manageable, it was a much more exhausting bike to ride compared to the 250s back then. 250 4t these day are pretty powerful, but they have absolutely no bottom end. The 350s truly are that sweet spot that's great for most average Joe riders like me. Not explosive from the get go like a 450, its not far off from a 450 in peak hp, but at that point you'd have to ride it like a 250. Best way to describe it for people who don't know, it's like a 250f in how it makes power, only it makes 10hp more everywhere, and more torque everywhere in the rev range, and it doesn't slow down up to the limiter. And unlike a 250f, doesn't mind being lugged around in the lower rpm.

[@linguinatorschwartz9309]

387MTB Racing -- You absolutely nailed it. I don't pay much attention to motocross, but I've known for at least a dozen years that the 450's are just too powerful for motocross tracks. If the manufacturers would pull their heads out of each other's butt and think outside the box, or butt . . . as the case may be, they'd figure out that if they'd PUT SOME DAMN FLYWHEEL on a 450 it would be the perfect desert bike.

[@jeremiahlewis9288]

I agree that 450s have outgrown stadiums which is why I wanted to see how Atlanta would go.

[@lukef5370]

I totally agree! I am an army veteran, and I used to ride an XR100 and an old yamaha IT 175 two-stroke when I was younger, I just recently got back into it, and there was literally no bike that's built for someone my size, I'm 6'3" 235lbs so too big for the CRF250F's but I definitely don't need to hop on a 450 after I haven't ridden in over 10 years. My only option or what I felt was my best option was the KLX300R, and I dig it! It's a little plush, but a lot better than a 250f or 230. I wish more manufacturers would make 300s or 350s. Hopefully, they're listening to stuff like this. They gotta remember that not everyone is 5'10", 165lbs of solid muscle and expert riders. These 450s will kill you if you don't know what you're doing.

[@artofdisguy3401]

I'm an old guy, teen in the late 70's into 80's, had my CR 125 from 78, then got better, got a good job bought an 82 CR125 , wow huge difference, then better job bigger bike the 84 CR 250, yippeee what a bike I was running in sand pit tracks airing it out, having a blast running with my buddies, all good right? Yep it was, but I thought I was maxing out the bike, so bought a beast CR480, Holy Shit! It was insane, in open pit or fields fast as hell,, damn scary in the trails or tight twists,,, after two serious crashes and collisions with trees, it got sold, My son has been riding for several years 80 to a 250, but now has said he wants the new 450, this video got forwarded to him, so maybe I can talk him out of it and staying with the 250 and just modding it out

[@skigod9]

love my 350 will never own anything else. owned r1's so when i got my first dirt bike i was like give me a 450 i ride litre bikes. a 450 is scarier then a litre bike. Went out and rode a friends 350 and sold my 450 and bought a 450 the next week.

[@johncast9565]

Typo but we get ya.

[@8180634]

Ditto, I was riding with a buddy and tried his 350 and it just had more power than I was expecting, more than enough yet it didn't wear me out as fast as the bigger bikes. So I bought one too!

[@seaeff6428]

When guys like Barcia are asking for a stock motors you know they’re too fast. Outdoors I can see a case for a 450 at the pro level, but SX 350 makes sense. There’s been guys that have done fine on a 350. I’m pretty sure Roczen got 2nd on a 350 in an sx race.

[@one60studios74]

That is the same with sport bikes. So many people don’t need a 1000. Most people only use a small percentage of the bikes capability. I’ve had a few liter bikes and I went back to a 600.

[@shrimpshow5458]

Same man and I had a 450 and went back to a 250f I think a 250 2 smoke is where I need to be

[@blantant]

While I agree, it is comfortable to just cruise while short shifting and using the low-end torque of a liter

[@jeffarcher400]

250 two strokes saved my life! It's a balance of power and agility not just horsepower numbers. Way back I had the RM 465 full floater and a Maico 500 and both were amazing. I always felt like I was flirting with disaster compared with my 250 bikes. When the YZ465 came out I was amazed by the roll on power and ability in deep sand whoops but also the complete change in feeling. It didn't feel like a bike but a racecar that lost two wheels. My two strokes were like riding on the back of a deer. Even my crf250 is more like a fast steamroller. Not free,light and flicky. So I see a different future for the off-road motorcycle. A hybrid that can run silent with the way less complex electric drive but instead of huge battery packs a tiny gas engine to regenerate the small light battery pack. You could even have dual drive with the gas motor driving the bike when noise isn't a concern and more power is needed then switch to the stealth mode when needed. Hybrids changed F1 racing and there seems no going back.

[@Joeswoodworking21]

His face when you braught up the 500 🤙🏻

[@beegcreations1757]

They’ve outgrown the stadiums...I really like Rynos thinking

[@johnthepastywhiteboy2358]

This is why 125s are so fun. They are light and you can just hold it wfo

[@coreyploof217]

100% agree, I got a 19 yz250f/19 yz 250 and a 05 yz125 and I have the most fun and go the fastest on my 125 hands down. It’s just wide open and easy to control

[@kwad3d10]

I have said this for years. At only 160-175lbs I was just a little too light to tame a 450. On the other end had to trick out a 250f to a 285 with many other power mods and still wanted more. Was enough to blow my buddies on their 450s away on just about anything but open road LOL

[@VC022]

I’ve rode a 250 2-stroke since when I jumped from an 80 to a 250 at age 17. I’ve was 150lbs then and still are now. Finally after all these years, I bought my first 450 three years ago at 41yo and I never knew what I was missing until that moment. I have a CRF450, and this thing is amazing. I don’t have to shift my ass off anymore, the power is there anytime I need it, and it’s the funnest thing I ever rode. Not to mention it’s so much easier to ride than the vibrating 250 smoker. Coming from someone that has broken my share of bones starting with both my arms (same time) when I was 14, if there’s an experienced person that crashes and god forbid gets injured bad or worse, then they understood the risks. If an idiot that doesn’t ride buys a 450 right off the bat, then someone at the dealership isn’t going their fuckin job. BTW, I do still have a 2003 KX250. I just can’t let that part of my history go. It’s still fun from time to time! I ride the smoker with my son that has a KX65, and ride the 450 with the guys. Another point is, the guys racing today, are now racing on way more dangerous and obstacle filled tracks than 20-40 years ago, tracks that modern bikes are designed for.

[@mbagwell2607]

Absolutely 100 percent correct. The modern 450 is a DREAM to ride. I think Reno is selling his training services here. My CRF 450r is the easiest bike to ride I ever owned. My CR 250r tried to kill me every time on it and was exhausting to ride hard

[@ayliniemi]

It's like the extreme of the past becomes the standard of today. I'd never want my son to be doing backflips or crazy jumps. Just enjoy some nice trail riding. You might be a good rider but that doesn't mean a dummy can't land on top of you.

[@VC022]

@Andrew This is always a possibility no matter what, but if you enter into the danger zone, be expecting danger. Prevent what you can, wear your protective gear and do your mechanical safety checks before each ride. Enjoy yourself, and leave the rest to fate. We only live once.

[@scottyboy7462]

Ryno is the high priest of the moto church. his sermons are life changing. manufacturers should be listening. to be honest, there's nothing more fun than banging bars with a bunch of buddies on 110's. I can't believe Gasgas hasn't come out with an adult "pitbike". you can wring them out and not be scared to death. when im on a 450 it's fear adrenaline instead of fun adrenaline.

[@MrPerfectlyEpic]

Those 110s are literally a blast, me and a buddy absolutely thrashed those growing up

[@traxxasrc10]

I enjoy the fact he brought up “450 are too fast for the stadiums” ITS TRUE. the pro guys are so close the racing part is so boring cuz everyone is so damn close

[@ohboy2118]

All respect to Hughes who imo is/was one of the beat 125cc riders to put a leg over a bike. RC said the same thing nobody needs all the power the 450 can produce and he was saying it back in 2006.

[@joelbabcock2952]

I was at Washougal about 10 years ago, watching the Medics scrape a young kid up off the track. I was standing next to a pretty fast local Pro who said the exact same thing. He said the 450’s are too fast for 90% of most riders. He said something I’ll never forget. He said it doesn’t matter if you’re a 16 year old Junior rider or Ricky Carmichael. You get off one of these bikes at 50 mph, your going to get f**cked up. That’s still true today.

[@hvacexplained9341]

I’m totally with you on the size of the engine deal. I’m 40 years old now and when I was growing up the most powerful list, 4 x 4 utility quads was Suzuki king quad, which was 280 cc and 300 Fourtrax. Apparently that can’t even get you through the woods anymore so we gotta use a 700 cc and 1000cc engines 🫣 where does it stop? P.S I ride a Yamaha banshee and it’s plenty fast / powerful enough

[@Rocketman0407]

Rode a 1000 or 1200 Renagade its really fun. Very different from a banshee but I think the Banshee is faster because of the weight

[@edit4112]

All day with this guy... He actually know what’s up.