C class - Guide 160

[@Drachinifel]

Pinned post for Q&A :)

[@themightynanto3158]

If it had been completed in 1940 as originally intended, for all its design flaws, would the Graf Zeppelin have posed a severe threat to the Royal Navy? That is would the germans have used it to attack british naval bases such as Scapa Flow in a manner similar to how the british attacked the italian fleet at Taranto with Hms Illustrious in 1940?

[@KJAkk]

My grandfather was aboard the RMS Queen Mary when it collided with the HMS Curacao.

[@karlvongazenberg8398]

@Kathleen Mcmanus This must be THE comment of this guide.

[@f12mnb]

Q - in the history of classes and individual ships you would mention that mines/torpedo hits would take off bows and sterns and sometimes the ships would be rebuilt. Could you comment on the rebuilding process in general. Wouldn't the keel be weakened at these points?

[@H.J.Fleischmann]

Are you planning to get rid of the text to speech ending? If so, please do not. I think it is funny and would miss it. Edit: Since that probably does not count as a question given the second part, do you plan on doing any videos on proposed ship designs which we never got?

[@Thirdbase9]

Of all the ships out there, you would think that the HMS Cassandra would have seen the mine coming.

[@jon-paulfilkins7820]

But no one believed her ;)

[@b.griffin317]

lol

[@1Korlash]

Took me a few seconds to get that. Kudos, mate. :)

[@obelic71]

hitting 2 sea mines and she was still afloat The HMS Curacau hit the liner RMS Queen Mary and sunk!

[@vintagethrifter2114]

@@obelic71 If the Curacao hit the Queen Mary, it most likely would have stayed afloat. It didn't hit the Queen Mary. The Queen Mary hit/ rammed it in the dark and broke the Curacao in half. The Queen Mary continued on her way, having never felt a thing.

[@derekmcmanus8615]

Ah C class...I served 12 years on HMS Caroline in the Royal Naval Reserve. I ended up training the New entries, when I visited last year my old office had been converted into a staff team room! Before she decommissioned she was the 2nd oldest commissioned ship in the Royal Navy after HMS Victory and the oldest actually still afloat. She took a pounding with the Stena line high speed ferries going into Belfast harbour and once pulled a 5 ton bollard and nearly took an unscheduled trip down Belfast lough in the early 2000's When you tour note the wardroom scuttles...during Mess dos the challenge was to exit via this climb to the deck and return via the scuttle in the cabin on the starboard side without falling in.

[@ObviusRetard]

Is HMS Warrior an not commisioned at the time? I thoght it was similar to HMS Victory

[@sarjim4381]

@@ObviusRetard Warrior was decommissioned on 1978 before being donated for preservation, so she was 117 years in service. Caroline was in commission until 2011, so she became the second oldest ship after Warrior was decommissioned, although she was "only" in commission for 97 years.

[@sarjim4381]

@freebeerfordworkers Regardless of her use, she was never formally decommissioned from the navy. Even a hulk like Warrior in later years, when she was just a misc yard craft, still counts as being in commision. It's not like ships that are decommissioned into reserve. She was still part of the active fleet.

[@richardvonpingel2379]

That a hell of long life for a warship.👍

[@barrydysert2974]

Thank you for sharing!:-) 🖖

[@robertf3479]

HMS Centaur, trying to prove that ANY ship can be a minesweeper at least once. Getting one's STERN as well as the bow blown off by mines takes real talent. Well done Centaur! ;-)

[@wideyxyz2271]

We had more ships in that one class than in the whole of the bloody navy put together now!

[@scottdrone-silvers5179]

Widey xyz Wartime has a way of doing that. You overbuild like mad to have enough ships to do what you need to do. Then when the war ends, you mothball, sell, or scrap a big % of them.

[@RedXlV]

@@scottdrone-silvers5179 Having an empire also did that. The UK needed a fleet that could patrol all of the world's oceans. That's no longer the case, since the former colonies and dominions are now independent and responsible for their own defense. That, and they're no longer a source of funding for the Royal Navy.

[@sarjim4381]

@@RedXlV I think I'd vote for war as the main driver, as shown by the Cleveland and Baltimore classes of the USN. No empire or dominions to maintain, but it was like once the ship building started, it wasn't able to stop any better than a freight train.

[@Dave_Sisson]

@@sarjim4381 No American colonies at the time? What about Guam, Hawaii, Alaska, Philippines, Puerto Rico, plus the client states of Panama and Liberia. That's a respectable colonial empire by any standard.

[@sarjim4381]

@@Dave_Sisson It would be if it was actually a colonial empire. The Philippines were already scheduled for independence in 1946 when the the two classes were being built. Alaska and Hawaii were territories that were already on track to become states. Liberia and Panama were independent countries that were provided military protection by treaties. Puerto Rico and Guam were the only sizeable territories the US possessed that weren't going to move on to statehood (although Puerto Rico still may if the people vote for it). We hardly needed classes the size of the Clevelands and Baltimores to defend either territory.

[@grahamr4916]

It’s very fortunate that despite the scrapping of major vessels of the Royal Navy that we do indeed have the Caroline still around. Such an interesting history about it.

[@The_Laughing_Cavalier]

4:43-4:54 Obi-Wan: Not to worry, we are still sailing half a ship!

[@1Korlash]

Anakin: Given the circumstances, I'd say the ability to sail this ship is irrelevant...Oh wait we made it back to port.

[@JosephTemplar]

A veteran of Jutland! Thank god she still survive.

[@billgalactica2982]

C, D, and HMS Emerald and Enterprise are some of my favourite cruiser designs!

[@gavinhudson5251]

Hurray! A WW1 ship that the Admiralty didn't scrap.

[@USSAnimeNCC-]

Where the rum hip hip hooray

[@danhay2505]

Gavin Hudson: Hurray! A WW1 ship that the Admiralty didn't scrap... yet... Fixed.

[@gavinhudson5251]

​@@USSAnimeNCC- I didn't notice that, I combined Hurrah with Hooray. Thanks for pointing that out.

[@gavinhudson5251]

@@danhay2505 I'm proud. It's the only WW1 ship in existence that is close to its original condition due to it being still commissioned at the time. The US has the battleship Texas but it's been modified during WW2, and sadly a leaking rust bucket.

[@samuelmatheson9655]

2021: steal from ww1 ships can be used to cure covid, so we're sending her to the breaking yard

[@dominicc3521]

Lol. Was just reading about the C-Class in one of Ospreys books. I believe one or two of the sub classes were converted to AA duties. On another note, when HMS Cassandra sunk, HMS Rodney was devastated. Like if you get the joke.

[@richardbrown7352]

sorry I don't get it

[@dominicc3521]

RICHARD BROWN search only fools and horses and you’ll get it.

[@Hybridchld]

That literally made me laugh out loud! Well played!

[@dominicc3521]

Stephen Fox thanks sailor

[@donaldrobertson117]

HMS Caroline is very much worth visiting. Impressive ship and excellent audio guide.

[@chedelirio6984]

HMS Calypso in 1922 was tasked with helping the Greek royals flee in ocassion of one of their various overthrowings -- being thus the first RN vessel the late Prince Phillip boarded, at 18 months old.

[@johnfisher9692]

Thanks Drach These ships must have been a logistics officers nightmare given how varied their weapons load out was. They were obviously a well thought out and constructed design that the Royal Navy really got their money's worth out of. Great to see at least one survived to show us just what a WW1 ship was like. I'll bet there were no ice cream makers on this ship :)

[@JGCR59]

I think they generally had switched to a uniform 6 inch armament by the time of Jutland, but the number of guns varied

[@dubsy1026]

C class is one of if not my favourite class of cruisers. Such beautiful little ships!

[@ONECOUNT]

Likewise one of my favorites. One of the smallest ships in the ww1 RN that resemble a proper British Warship! I sometimes daydream about owning one as my personal yacht.

[@Maddog3060]

Well, now I have a decent reason to want to visit Belfast.

[@tcofield1967]

Definitely the Swiss Army knife of cruisers. Possibly the most significant design of 20th Century cruisers. These were light cruisers before light cruisers were officially a thing.

[@Paladin327]

Thomas Cofield the hipster class of light cruisers!

[@hasenphelt526]

This is my no.1 WW1 ship, I love the many different sub classes, the diversity of weapons, the uses they were put to. Also I was born in Carlisle and an old family friend use to show me pictures of the various C classes as he had served on a few of them.

[@JohnJohansen2]

4:44 In the same incident? 😯

[@Marcusinthemix]

Thank you for a great episode. I dived the HMS Cassandra in deep waters of Estonia this summer, I´ve seen a lot in the last 30 years but this was one of the most magnificent dives I´ve ever made, the videos and photos we took are stunning!

[@andrewsartscalemodels]

Great looking ships. Another awesome video. Thanks mate 👍

[@lordwintertown8284]

Seas a Drachinifel video nice seas it's a C class must watch. Ahh the C class such a nice ship class next time go to Great Britain I'll head to Ireland to see the HMS Caroline (1914) & the SS Nomadic another rather old ship.

[@ROBERTN-ut2il]

1) At 7:23 or so, RMS Queen Mary is shown in New York Harbor in WW2. The line running from bow to stern at Main Deck level was one of her degaussing cables to counteract magnetic mines. 2) It's ironic that three vessels sunk by aircraft had all been converted to CLAA's - because they were employed in more active areas of the war than their unmodified classmates 3) I wonder if the Queen Mary painted a White Ensign somewhere as a victory marking.

[@thisislesbomaya]

what an interesting gun layout for chasing and kiting away

[@DimoB8]

Light armoured cruisers, a prelude to the Yamato sized disappointment of the Large Light Cruisers, whatever that means...

[@GilbMLRS]

I'd like to see a review about some other ship classes maybe seaplane tenders and other auxiliaries. Maybe the USS Antares.

[@jaym6564]

Something to see on my trip to Belfast in August!

[@colbydaddy4414]

Another fantastic video ! Well done again Sir.

[@99IronDuke]

@Drachinifel I am really looking forward to the HMS Caroline (the last survivor of the battle of Jutland) special.

[@jimmiller5600]

Love your deep dives beyond individual ships. Keep bringing the analysis & strategy videos on why things work or fail, sometimes spectacularly. And how did the pom-pom compare to the Bofors? Thank you!

[@kevinm3586]

It was HMS Curacoa not Curacao that collided with the Queen Mary. You can clearly see the "racoa" part of the name on her stern at 5:21 in the video.

[@johnjephcote7636]

Apparently there are two spellings and the oa ending is the least used now. I had been wondering as to what class that vessel belonged when I was reading up on the collision.

[@BrockRuby]

Another Great vid. I really enjoy the vids!!

[@Bird_Dog00]

Known in WoWs as the Caledon-Class, they are mostly famous for the fact that you can citadell them through the bow with 5" HE shells...

[@Aren-1997]

Away with your WOWS statistics and learn the real history of these ships.

[@handschar7300]

I love every ship from Caledon to Emerald becouse i destroyed so much destroyers but if caledon is attacked from another cruiser he will be citadeled too much...

[@boreasreal5911]

For that to be true, the whole bow must be part of the citadel.

[@jimmyseaver3647]

@@Aren-1997 He's making a joke.

[@Aren-1997]

@@jimmyseaver3647 I know he is. But when ones only experince of a historic ship is some stupid game it kinda takes away from the real life thing.

[@pf6797]

I got a real Henry Higgins vibe from the script lol. Have a good weekend drach!

[@donjones4719]

3:35 Sounds a lot like a Fletcher class destroyer.

[@martinhonor3483]

I might have missed it, but I would like to see a guide to HMS Chester and HMS Birkenhead. A contrast and compare exercise between those two and the Towns and the early Cs would be interesting.

[@mattblom3990]

Just came from rewatching Drydock 003 to here...Drach has clearly used some of the Patreon money to upgrade his recording equipment. Huge difference since the early days.

[@aarongrahn3776]

I'd enjoy seeing a video on the auxiliary cruiser Kronprinz Wilhelm, an ocean liner turned commerce raider for the Kaiser.

[@Philip271828]

Ooh, new Drach. Nice.

[@jamesbrowne6351]

Really enjoy these mini documentaries.

[@sebastianwargny626]

Yo love your vids drach, very nicely done!

[@jimmiller5600]

Type 45 - Daring class destroyer displaces 8,700 to 9,400 tons. C class cruiser 4,200 to 5,000 tons. Times have changed.

[@sarjim4381]

Yes, and so has navy ship designations. In an earlier time, ships like the Daring and Spruance classes would have been given their proper designations as light cruisers. However, it's much easier to extract money our of Parliament or Congress to build some destroyers than it is to build cruisers, and easier to get the money to build a "through deck cruiser" than it is an aircraft carrier.

[@johnshepherd8687]

The Zumwalts are bigger than the Balitimores. CG-47 class were originally classed as DDGs but the Navy thought a billion dollar destroyer would not get Congressional approval.

[@sarjim4381]

@@johnshepherd8687 Not quite. The Zumwalt is 610 feet and between 15,100 and 15, 700 tons, depending on equipment and weapons fit. The Baltimores were 673 feet and 17,000 full load tons. They are pretty huge for something labeled a destroyer with almost no offensive capabilities. The Ticonderoga class had its classification changed from DDG to CG before the first keel was laid because of the additional capabilities of the Aegis system and the addition of flag accommodations. They were never classed as DD's because of their guided missile weapons. The Navy had actually been looking for a way to change the classification to cruiser, since it was easier to get that kind of money out of Congress for a cruiser than anything with destroyer in the classification.

[@johnshepherd8687]

@@sarjim4381 False: The CG-47 were built around the Aegis system it wasn't an post design add on. That is why they cost a billion dollars. CG-47-50 were laid down as DDGs. That is why the Burke Class Starts with 51 and not 47. The Zumwalts are 15.5 kt Standard load. That is close enough to make my point.

[@sarjim4381]

@@johnshepherd8687 I didn't say the Ticonderoga's didn't have the Aegis system before the change in classification. I said they had additional capabilities added before the keels of the first two ships were laid. The 15.5k tons is the full load tonnage. Standard is 14,798 tons. Again, this varies by the weapons and electronics fit. I would have had no argument with what you wrote if you had said close to a Baltimore. You wrote they are bigger, and that's not the case in length or tonnage.

[@hazchemel]

thank you they my ships! first choice

[@takao5618]

The best thing to end my day with :)

[@steveb6103]

What they didn't scrap all of them? That's not the British way! Isn't that the way all the history of British warships ends . Scrapped on this date.

[@Aren-1997]

Yes it's amazing isn't it, but they kinda ruined Caroline by building that ugly house on her aft end...

[@Aren-1997]

@Kathleen Mcmanus yeah at least that was taken away so they could add the 6inch gun and rear mast, but the main central one still ruins the look of the whole ship and is real eyesore on an otherwise nice looking ship. I really hope they remove it in the future and properly restore her with torpedo tubes and full armament!

[@ONECOUNT]

@@Aren-1997 The last surviving participant of Jutland, and if she were properly restored quite a handsome ship. Maybe they could hoist the barracks of her and mount it ashore as an exhibit house. The museum should concentrate on Jutland and the ships that participated in it. There is plenty of material right there for a first class museum.

[@Aren-1997]

Jurassic Aviator The jutland configuration would be too costly, but her late war/1920s config would be easy to do and actually better looking imo. All they would have to do is remove the house and add a 6 inch gun at the front for that. But restoring her to Jutland would be way to hard as would require a whole new mast. The way they have done it atm is a weird mish mash of her Jutland, 1920s, and training ship configs, which just looks messy.

[@standard_gauge]

Carson was never PM of Northern Ireland. Sir James Craig was PM from 1921 until 1940.

[@assessor1276]

Very interesting! I had no idea that a Jutland vet was still afloat. Are there any others still in existence?

[@jimtaylor294]

None others that I'm aware of. HMS Belfast is the only remaining ship from the Battle of North Cape though, the last gun duel between RN & Kreigsmarine warships of Cruiser size & above.

[@joemaloney1019]

None but HMS Caroline.

[@alanxgale]

Thanks, very interesting.

[@Giovanni-eu1jx]

could you review the Zara class heavy cruisers of the RM?

[@1Korlash]

5:10 What's that clock-like thing on the side of the gun? EDIT: 7:39 Well I know what I'm doing if I ever visit Northern Ireland.

[@legogenius1667]

I'm not certain of this, but I think it's a way to communicate the range of targets to other ships in a formation So, the ship behind them could see what their rangefinders have found, and compare it to their own calculations.

[@chrisbongard1991]

Please show the British ww1 monitors. Love the series. Regards Christopher

[@jamesharding3459]

Last time I was this early, Britain was still an empire.

[@blackcorp0001]

Jolly good old chap ... Haw haw :p

[@andrewphillips8341]

Last time I was this earlier Mary was still a virgin

[@b.griffin317]

it's 2020 bro, they've moved their headquarters across the sea.

[@99IronDuke]

Britain still has about 14 overseas territories scattered around the world, you can look them up on Wiki if you like. The sun still never sets...

[@RCAvhstape]

The Brits are smart; they let the US take over duty as leader of the English-speaking world and stay close friends with them. Benefits with fewer costs. Instead of a "British Empire", it's now known as the "Anglosphere".

[@animal16365]

The Royal navy got there money s worth out of those ships.

[@scottgiles7546]

There. their, they're. (heh!)

[@adhdengineer]

I drive past HMS Caroline on my to work every day, she's much smaller than you'd think by the term cruiser.

[@bullettube9863]

The "C" class were barely bigger then a WW2 era destroyer, but they turned out to be very handy ships.

[@farringtonstreet]

HMS Cardiff took the last Habsburg Emperor & Empress to exile on the island of Madeira. I found that quite interesting 😊

[@kelb76]

Just want to mention the USS Wolverine and USS Sable. I hope they are still on the list.

[@scottdrone-silvers5179]

I like light cruisers and I cannot lie.

[@klipsfilmsmelbourne]

Caroline is 100 years old she is in good care

[@Jack-jq4if]

Is it a possibility that perhaps in the future a video on the Estonian Submarines Kalev and Lembit could be made? I will mention that EML Lembit survived the Second World War and can still be visited at the Estonian Maritime Museum.

[@kendramalm8811]

Morning, Drach!

[@tk21thestormtrooper4]

hey, good video. did you ever considered the idea of making a video about the battleship borodino?

[@tomcusa6528]

Any chance you could do the U-505. How can you pass up a German U-Boat that wound up in Chicago.

[@benlaskowski357]

Good thing one still exists. They served well in two world wars.

[@stephenfarthing3819]

So HMS Belfast wasn't the only RN Ship to be saved from the Breakers yard! HMS Caroline was also spared that fate and she's even older than Belfast by 20 years or so!

[@moldypotato777]

How about the st. Lo. Or any of the ww2 escort carriers

[@wolfsoldner9029]

Please do the Kaiser class next.

[@andrewcook5121]

Is HMS Caroline the only Jutland survivor?

[@99IronDuke]

Yes she is.

[@darrenbrashaw8409]

And well worth a visit!!

[@grahamariss2111]

The first VC of the Mediterranean campaign was won on HMS Coventry. Petty Officer Alfred Edward Sephton sadly his VC was stolen from Coventry Cathedral in 1990 ((((

[@frankdantuono2594]

Light Gas Guns: Which nations have researched them and have any countries navy's put them on a ship?

[@christophpoll784]

Somehow those hulls look familiar... the bow, funnel and even size somehow look like the early Narvik-Class DDs of the germans 20 years later...

[@richardvonpingel2379]

Do one on PG-2 Petrel

[@NCC-638]

Can you review USS Washington BB-56?

[@stevehomeier8368]

Maybe not the most useful vessels in the Royal Navy, but they sure are beautiful.

[@kidmohair8151]

fitting that Cassandra should be the first one lost, don't you think?

[@rustyheckler8766]

Only getting a C in class but hey you can still be PM! 😁👍

[@yarpy2221]

Why is the mast leaning so precariously to stern?

[@shaniamonde7341]

Much like racing stripes, makes them look like they are going faster.

[@esbendit]

It looks like the mast is also part of the tripod, there is likey either production or structual benefits to doing it that way.

[@ONECOUNT]

Most British cruisers had raked masts and funnels. Personally I find vertical masts and funnels more respectable compare York and Exeter of Ww2 fame,

[@joeobyrne3189]

My grandfather served on HMS Caroline during WW1

[@rogerwilco2]

The UK actually have a ship they didn't scrap?

[@karlvongazenberg8398]

C, for coffe, then like, then watch

[@MartinCHorowitz]

when in califoria you need to visit the queen mary one of ww2s most important ships

[@calibulaminus4778]

somehow your voice sounds more "sexy" than usual, did you change your microphone?

[@Drachinifel]

I did indeed :)

[@PaperclipClips]

@CALIBULAMINUS - someone commented on one of his recent videos that the volume seemed a bit low on that one, and Drach responded that he was getting a new microphone to replace what he was using, so this might be part of the new setup.

[@blackcorp0001]

*raises eyebrow*

[@calibulaminus4778]

@@blackcorp0001 i mean cant a guy swing both ways. now in a serious note, i meant that his voice sounded way better that usual

[@blackcorp0001]

@@calibulaminus4778 lol ... hey, its the navy ... what happens at sea...well you know the rest :p

[@madhungarian3024]

I've always wanted to know if sharp horsepower is better than dull horsepower?

[@johnprenis6059]

ask a horse person about coldbloods vs hotbloods.

[@DenmarkRadar]

The C class, not the C word ;-)

[@vaclav_fejt]

C-class - and it's not a Mercedes-Benz.

[@JGCR59]

I wonder if the crew of HMS Cassandra had premonitions about hitting a mine but no one was listening

[@JamieBainbridge]

I was over halfway through, thinking this was the weirdest destroyer ever, before I figured out there were both C-class cruisers and C-class destroyers. Also this Centaur is not a carrier. C is for Confusing class.

[@philipjooste9075]

I had a C-Class once. It was okay, but when the family got bigger, I traded it in on an SUV.

[@typehere6689]

...

[@garypatterson2790]

What about a fictional video featuring the German heavy cruiser, DKM Prinz Luitpold?

[@estoyaqui5386]

I have a 500-page book about this class. I never thought you can pack the info into 8 minutes (minus 30 sec for intro) Oo

[@eamon821]

What's the name of this book? Thanks in advance.

[@craigpalmer9196]

give me a fast ship to go into harms way

[@barryjones8842]

Say what you will, but the C and D classes were very attractive ships...

[@joemaloney1019]

Small proper British warships of the period, quite handsome.

[@raptor6365]

so they scraped HMS Warspite and that little light cruiser gets a museum treatment instead.. hmmm...

[@99IronDuke]

HMS Caroline was kept because she was a Royal Naval Reserve training ship for many years.

[@richardvonpingel2379]

USS Petrel PG-2

[@korbell1089]

Don't judge the HMS Centaur, it obviously identified as a much smaller destroyer and had reduction surgery.

[@gokbay3057]

Ok which C-class? ~Actually starts the video~ Ok, so the cruisers not the destroyers that were given to Canada. (Actually only one minute into the video yet) Wasn't two ships of this class given to Chinese/Taiwanese navy?

[@mikesaporitojr3313]

So can your patreons move some up the list if they vote for it in the vote? Just asking

[@Drachinifel]

Yep, once per month :)

[@b1laxson]

C ship. C ship sail. See C ship sail.

[@blackcorp0001]

C for not as good as BB , or C(A)

[@ThroneOfBhaal]

OMG this is like... the third time the British actually KEPT a ship for a museum...

[@kyle857]

5 dislikes. This one must be controversial.

[@hpoelies]

I would really like to see the AA-refit C-class in World of Warships... at around tier 4 or 5....