C. S. Lewis - Why I am Not a Pacifist

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[@TestimonyAndScripture]

“A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.” - Ecclesiastes 3:8

[@MrAmericanaSam]

What of our brothers in Christ who adhere to the abolition of "The Law," and will consider no passage of the "Old Testament bondage" when weighing their thoughts on this topic?

[@arKiteX3]

I think anyone attempting a simplistic rebuttal of C.S. Lewis's point based on cherry-picked verses must address the simple fact that he was making this speech in the year 1940. At that time the Nazis were collecting the Jews into ghettos in preparation for the holocaust. To suggest that the Christian is morally obligated to pacifism in reply to Lewis's essay is *precisely* to argue that if evil men intend to commit one of the most ghastly evils ever to plague our fallen creation, then the Christian is morally obligated to sit on his thumbs and watch as millions of people are murdered.

[@DanielBrown-tj7zb]

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[@DanielBrown-tj7zb]

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[@DanielBrown-tj7zb]

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[@DanielBrown-tj7zb]

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[@DanielBrown-tj7zb]

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[@johnnotrealname8168]

One of the strangest doctrines that man has claimed of Christ is that he commands one to sit by as his brothers wallows under the tyrant's heal. We are to be God's instrument, or will we let the Hutus and Tutsis die by the millions? The Kurds, Bosnians and Cambodians too? Are we our brother's keeper? This is not to write all war is just, unjust war deserves action (Pacifist is you wish.) however pacifism would lead to self-immolation.

[@nah_ual]

you can just say you are afraid of death

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@@nah_ual Ummm, okay?

[@NunyaBesnas]

@@nah_ualwhat are you even talking about?

[@jeffcokenour3459]

If only people read the scriptures... If Jesus was a pacifist what did he mean by his statement inuke 22:36? The first gentile converted to Christ was a Roman soldier in Acts 10. If pacifism was Jesus intent, why didnt he tell the soldiers in Luke 3:14 to quit soldiering instead of telling them to be content with their wages? Is Paul's statement in Romans 13:4 now nonsense? What about Jesus half brother, James in James 4:17? Do you think he misunderstood Jesus? Can anyone say it is not good to use force to protect a child? Why does the bible say cowards end up in hell? Rev 21:8?

[@Wretched90]

They dont know the LORD brother dont bother with them we are free in Christ to seek judgement and do good.

[@NunyaBesnas]

Perfect concise comment Brother. I agree.

[@williamblack4369]

This really takes me back ... to Weynon Priory.

[@Vlugazoide]

Why? Hahahaha

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@@Vlugazoide Dude like two or three years.

[@mageofwar5438]

Socrates lives again in this man. Lord let me follow this man's path.

[@isaiahjberg]

Is there a full text available online of this address?

[@CSLewisessays]

I think you can only find it as a chapter in the book titled The Weight of Glory, here's a link: www.kotobati.com/book/download/8cc99f66-ebb8-4556-949a-6a6edf45b760

[@isaiahjberg]

THANK YOU!! @@CSLewisessays

[@prentissbillingsley8411]

What happened to to the doodles?

[@christophersnedeker]

Different channel

[@mavisemberson8737]

A refusal to see .... many critics online cannot be corrected by argument. We need this when reading 'comments' on videos on KZbin :-) I must remember!

[@John-bv2ft]

Very clever man

[@JamesMThayer]

What happened to the CS Lewis Doodle on this?!

[@CSLewisessays]

Blackstone audio changed their position on fair use.

[@JamesMThayer]

@@CSLewisessays what the heck. Is it anywhere uploaded online? There was also one on Chivalry that was amazing.

[@CSLewisessays]

Unfortunately no. I will contact C. S. Lewis Doodles to see if he's willing to share his retracted videos.

[@DeKnight95]

@@CSLewisessays wait, wouldn't a doodle of the subject matter make it sufficiently transformative? Also, who's profits could possibly be jeopardized? I have an American understanding of Gair use, so I apologize if you live in a country with different views on 'Fair use. Here, it's a matter of infringing on markets. I could have sworn that was the entire point of intellectual property rights to begin with. It's simply to stop you from destroying new business by taking someone's ideas, and therefore potential customers. The idea that a free Channel on KZbin has to retract videos because of half a century year old audio is... frustrating.

[@CSLewisessays]

it's the fault of Blackstone audio. They changed leadership and the "very smart and wise" guy that is in charge now retracted the permission of posting those doodles with that audio.

[@genemanansala1147]

🙏🙏🙏

[@WadeWeigle]

Excellent reasoning! This helps me feel more comfortable about carrying my concealed carry firearm.

[@TestimonyAndScripture]

👍🏻

[@NunyaBesnas]

Remember brother, the commandment is not “You shall not kill” it is “you shall not commit murder”. Self defense has always been justified in the eyes of god.

[@wahnano]

This is knowledge.

[@louisbrugnoni7639]

Matthew 26:53 He could’ve gotten 12 legions of angels to protect Him. Think people. That’s not cherry picking! That’s the Word of the Lord! 🤔

[@storba3860]

Self Defense is not Holy War.

[@lukasbryant9881]

Are you forgetting when He told the disciples to sell their cloaks to buy swords? And are you forgetting when Jesus took cords, made a whip, and whipped people, driving them out of the temple while overturning the money changing tables? Please, do not be immature and naive, my friend. Jesus was set on the plan the Father had for the redemption of mankind. It was necessary for Jesus to be taken, die, and rise again. That is why he did not call the angels. He had a greater purpose. Not because defending is morally wrong. 1 Cor. 13- "Love does not rejoice in evil, but rejoices with the truth... love protects all things." And what of David, the "man after God's own heart"? Did he not protect Isreal from the Philistines? Yes, God gave them into his hand. It was not of David's own strength. But God used David to protect and stand for what was right.

[@NunyaBesnas]

Having only one small verse without context is indeed cherry picking.

[@louisbrugnoni7639]

Love him but I don’t agree with him in this matter. I don’t carry a gun because my faith is in God, not guns.

[@Wretched90]

Hyporcrite then dont take medicine either.

[@nah_ual]

@@Wretched90 Guns kill, Medicine heals. I do not understand how do you even come up with that thought process.

[@NunyaBesnas]

@@nah_ualguns prevent evil men from doing evil things.

[@mitchconner6831]

@@nah_ualmore people die of medication misuse then firearms.

[@user-sr4sk7vd9o]

The Lion

[@owlnyc666]

Moderate Pacifism. Neither Absolute Dove or Absolute Hawk. Those that live by the sword, thou shalt not kill? Do you see the lion?😎😇

[@owlnyc666]

The most pacifist non violent religion that I am aware of is the Jain. They make Quakers look like Storm Troopers.😎😇

[@owlnyc666]

I do think that C.S. Lewis was a Christian. I know he was not a pacifist. I also know that some Christians are pacifist and some are not. I think that both cite, interpret scriptures as support. 😎😇💒

[@storba3860]

​@@owlnyc666 "Man looks at outward appearances but only God knows the heart." Saying who is and isn't Christian based on your own subjective standard is Pharisee behavior.

[@owlnyc666]

@@storba3860 I think that humans look inward and outward, It is not me who says who is or isn't a Christian it is other Christians who say it, I also do not know if you are a Christian. Assuming that God does exist and assuming that It is omniscient only God knows. Everyone else believes they know what is in the mind of another.

[@owlnyc666]

@@storba3860 I do not recall saying who is or is not a Christian. I have heard other Christians say who is not a Christian. I have heard Christians say that Jehovah's Witnesses and even Mormons are not Christians. Assuming that God does exist and that It is all it is claimed to be then I know I would agree that only God knows what is in the heart of another.

[@tendaimsimang8630]

Jesus Christ's final silent sermon was to die innocently. He stood up for what was good, but did not resist the evil dealt against him. So to the apostles and the early saint's, all of them martyred for the faith The kingdoms of earth grow by shedding the blood of those they conquer. But the kingdom of heaven grows when faithful martyrs give their own blood for the testimony of Jesus. Self sacrifice is a core attribute of Christianity. As Christians we may run at times, and if our hour has not come yet we may hide. But no where in the gospels is it condoned to kill as a Christian.

[@lazgmr4746]

so when jesus said to tie millstones around pedophile necks and drown them in the sea, is he saying that they'll learn to breathe underwater?

[@tendaimsimang8630]

@@lazgmr4746 Naah they would drown and lose the opportunity to learn anything ever again. But what Jesus is actually saying is that it would be better if they(sinner) had chosen instead to tie a millstone around they their neck and drown, than hurt one of these children. Because those who hurt ( or cause them to sin) one of these children will burn forever in hell. It is better to drown temporarily, than to burn eternally. Vengeance is always the Lords. two verses down he talks about the severity of sin, telling us it would be better to cut of our arm off if it caused us to sin. Mat 18:6-7-8 'but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea'. “Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes! And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. The blood of the innocent condemns the guilty to Gods wrath. And it's the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit that renders our souls innocent in the presence of God. When the cup of Gods wrath is filled, which contains the blood of the innocent. Then God’s Judgment will waste the world. Till then let us be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. Doves don't hurt a soul, they bring peace in the message they carry. The Lords heel will deal with the serpents, let us rise above and meet his grace face to face. Thanks for your response it forced me to look into the word more deeply.

[@zackiebullock3614]

Jesus died because he was meant to be a sacrifice. As he is literally going to fight Satan in the end. People seem to also forget the wall of Jericho, and the many wars GOD said to go into.

[@tendaimsimang8630]

@@zackiebullock3614 Gods approach to violence/punishment does change drastically from old to new testament. I believe this is because of His plan for our salvation through Jesus. God promised Abraham that his seed would bless all the nations. This promise was rekindled when God later promised David that through his line a king would come whose reign would never end. Through Israel eternal salvation would enter the world. Whiles Israel was pregnant with the promise, God (when needed) violently defended the nation of Israel till peace was born through her. That peace is Jesus. Pacifist are warriors, not in the flesh but in the spirit. Because they refuse to defend the flesh they cannot be threatened with death. Warriors of life do not kill they heal. They fight with truth, the sword of their mouth. They acknowledge that they do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against princes and principalities, spiritual wickedness in high places. They do not fight against the sword at hand, but against evil ideas in the heart and mind of man. Jesus was a peaceful warrior, and his weapon was his own blood/life. He will fight and defeat the father of lies (satan) with the sword of his mouth (the Truth). “You have heard that it was said, ‘ Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. Matt 5:38-39....48 Jesus came to end the war in the flesh, And begin the war in the spirit. Truth and love are our sword and shield in this internal war that leads to external peace and eventually eternal life. Jesus asks his believers to join him on this campaign down the narrow path of peace and persecution. Love and Peace

[@lazgmr4746]

@@tendaimsimang8630 as joshua graham says "we can't expect god to do all the work" also I think waiting for everything to go to hell so god intervenes by destroying the world doesn't sound like something I could support

[@SigmaPB777]

The vaccination comment didn't age well lol

[@computergamescritical6917]

What do you mean?

[@SigmaPB777]

@@computergamescritical6917 It's been a couple months since I made the comment but I believe he said something about getting vaccinated being your "moral duty" to society or something. It didn't age well for 2 reasons, 1, it's a highly controversial topic nowadays in regards to Covid-19 shots with a lot of conservative right-wing Christians (who like C.S. Lewis) being on the anti-shot side lol 2, it's the exact line of thinking pro-mandate liberals are making for the Covid-19 shot. It's just a funny thing that something like that would be so relevant 40+ years later. The comment was forgivable though because he was talking about actual vaccinations and the actually serious diseases they treated, instead of mRNA genetic coding treatments to treat a virus mildly more dangerous than the flu to the vast majority of people.

[@Azel79]

You are ill-informed. The fact that modern American conservatives have become hyperpartisans to the point of politicizing something like vaccination during a pandemics does not invalidate Lewis' argument, it just shows how conservatives have become more stupid.

[@narcleptik]

@@SigmaPB777 I agree, I'm against this "vaccine" considering it's not safe tested

[@SigmaPB777]

@@narcleptik Yes, I don't think he ever imagined the controlling powers would create an experimental mRNA shot, call it a vaccine, put it through ~5% of the normal trials before mandating that everyone get it to prevent a moderate flu.

[@cagethemouse]

Christ said to be harmless as doves innit mate?

[@anjieobasa1871]

Yes but in war you can’t just sit down and do nothing. Besides in the Old Testament Jesus was always involved in war.

[@reviebarr8577]

If your right hand causes you to do evil, cut it off mate

[@SigmaPB777]

Are you really trying to make that argument?

[@anjieobasa1871]

@@SigmaPB777 yes I am.

[@SigmaPB777]

@@anjieobasa1871 I wasn't replying to you haha

[@ibperson7765]

John told soldiers, “Do violence to no man.. and be content with your wages.” Sounds a lot like pacifism to me. Secondly, neither Rom 13:4 nor 1 Pet 2:14 meant that they are being manifestly obedient to God as adopted sons, but that in God’s overall sovereignty they are being used thusly. To my surprise, this talk made me appreciate the pacifist position more not less. Although, it comes down to violence not enlisting per se.

[@js1817]

"Do violence to no man" could be an exhortation to pacifism, or it could mean something else like "don't do unnecessary violence, don't rob people, don't get into drunken fights"; what it means would depend on the context. Oh, look! The context is that he follows it up with "be content with your wages". Sounds like he was saying they should stay in the army and be content with their pay and not rob or extort civilians or defraud the army stores or whatever.

[@ibperson7765]

@@js1817 I did try to cover that about wages with my final sentence. Im not making a final decision or interpretation, but “do violence to no man” is hard (not impossible) to explain. In addition to what you wrote, I guess we can try to say that a soldier is doing violence to an army or a state rather than a man, but that isn’t real compelling. If we are to be honest though, we must start by acknowledging the phrase is not easy to deal with. Changing ‘do violence to no man’ into ‘do no unnecessary violence’ would require strong support, just imo. I don’t have the final answer. Finally, even if we took the statement at face value, it isn’t clear that it would imply objecting to my nation fighting a war, or refusing to help in other ways - for it’s quite clear I don’t have to quit the army if already there. As I keep saying.. Im not sure.

[@ibperson7765]

@@js1817 Oh. I just realized something. One of the biggest causes of misread is failing to account for who He was talking to and when and where. (Just for example when He tells the apostles ask for anything in His name and it will be done, and then tones that down slightly for the 70. And then for us He says john 17.20-26). That concept, like anything, can be overdone, but it also must not be ignored. He’s talking to occupying Romans who originally came only to conquer and tax and even plunder etc. Might be relevant.

[@dezlondes7106]

It's ok for you to be a coward, the talk just removes Christianity and the teachings of Christ from the equation, as most people already knew.

[@iamjulian2810]

@@ibperson7765 brother in Christ, if you believe the Bible than Jesus is the exact same in the Old Testament because Jesus is The God of the Old Testament. Drop this notion that Jesus is a pacifist, it’s just not true even in the slightest bit.

[@uiPublic]

Jesus's pacifist Teaching's has it's basis in a Familial underpinnings if taken with a Brotherly pinch of salt. Christian outlook towards Today's enmity maybe Future friendlies is what's undergirding the Gospel's reach out to Neighbors yet Wicked evils cannot be ruled out similarly. Modernday distinctive attitudes to Christ's lifetime & Powerful throne delegated authority on Holy Spirit's make followers Be-leavers v. living in the Truest sense of His Beatitudes?!

[@uiPublic]

God's perfection must be our Work's in progress with allusions to Sun as rains wasn't differently for Jesus's.

[@uiPublic]

London Palace Guard's Nonresistant postures against Ladies slapping as kisses alike exemplifies situations¿¡

[@uiPublic]

I take solace as Jesus's a pacifist as one man cross to lighten it for others mainly because it's God's Willed take Devils to account on behalf His Son's as also Sinless or sinned against get delivered from Evils just as he taught

[@theeternalslayer]

He wasn't a pacifist, he chased the robbers and theives and swindlers in his father's temple with a thorn whip...