Cadillac Roundtable "1985 FWD DeVille / Fleetwood" Dealer Video

The "Roundtable" series was produced for many years to inform Cadillac dealerships' sales and technical staff on new products, features and sales techniques.
This video, produced in 1984, debuts the new-for-'85 FWD DeVille & Fleetwood series.
Yes, these vehicles are controversial. Let's try to keep the discussion positive.

[@ixevaztyan]

I was born on 94 but I appreciate the graphics, music and "top of the line technology" of this video.

[@SpockvsMcCoy]

The major faults of size and engine reliability in the 1985 model were finally corrected in the 1989 redesign.

[@rickc303]

And even more so for 1991

[@krumabon1903]

My 89 CDV has been nothing but good to me.

[@jasontengan1233]

350 in 90 SD but didn't like the composite headlights

[@riotautorepair9662]

The fwd Fleetwood was the biggest mistake Cadillac ever made. Car like that should be full size, v8, rwd, like the next generation after this one

[@joseduranjr4963]

My great aunt Mary had a 1985 Cadillac Sedan deVille and I was always amazed at how comfortable that car was.

[@TVHouseHistorian]

So many people love to hate these cars. For me, their appeal is more about the nostalgia than anything else. I remember as a kid being super excited to see a more "contemporary" Cadillac. The problem with this concept was that GM was using the "Contemporary Spirit of Cadillac" spin as an excuse to go the cheap route with their badge engineering concept. For instance, there was little difference between the Sedan deVille and the Olds Regency 98, or the Buick Park Avenue, or the Century, or the Cutlass Supreme... all of them were cut from the exact same block of wood, which gave them absolutely no originality. How could they think this was going to attract a younger buyer? While Cadillac was piddling around with the FWD concept, Acura and Lexus were the new kids on the block, and knew precisely how to run circles around the Germans in the luxury car game. All that to say, I've driven both an '87 and the '88 Sedan deVilles, and really enjoyed them for what they were. They were a new take on the traditional American luxe-barge, and for me it was a hit. The suspension didn't wallow and sway, and these were easier to park. You could still pack 6 or 7 people in them and they made for fabulous road trip cars. I've had a 98 Regency, as well as a Park Avenue - both FAR more reliable, and while they were not much different from the Sedan deVille at the time, I still prefer the Sedan deVille.

[@SpockvsMcCoy]

Badge engineering began at GM long before this 1985 Deville...my father's 1976 Olds 98 was very similar to a 1976 DeVille (C-body).

[@klwthe3rd]

Even though i love the Deville as well, i would disagree and say the Oldsmobile and Buick had it over the Cadillac in the engine and quaility of the interior. This is just my opinion of course but i was a huge fan of the front drive cars and my familiy was an Oldsmobile family through and through. But the Buick offered a beautiful car too in the Electra and Park Avenue. Today, these cars are highly sought after for their great design and features. Not to mention their good reliablity.

[@SpockvsMcCoy]

@@klwthe3rd The 3.8 Liter V6 was definitely a better engine than Cadillac's 4.1 Liter V-8

[@cadmanist]

The problem was actually much worse...these weren't badge engineered like the Olds or Buicks, in fact, very few parts interchange with the 'lesser' divisions, and that was intentional to give them some exclusivity (including having a division-unique 8 cylinder). Even the roof stamping and doors are unique in that they wrap into the upper sheetmetal which none of the other C/H bodies do. The problem was that they - looked - like they were badge engineered. The E/K cars had the same problem in '86, looking like an N derivative, yet having nothing in common.

[@TVHouseHistorian]

@@cadmanist Ah, got it. Thanks for the clarification. Still, for all their problems, I have an affection for these.

[@PeaceLoveVolvo]

I’m amazed the Olds diesel made it into the C bodies. I thought it was long gone by the time these came out. Learn something new every day!

[@cadmanist]

Thankfully the Olds was no longer offered; this was a new, and actually reliable, transverse diesel. But by the mid-80's gas prices had dipped below diesel so very few were ordered.

[@corvettejimmy3323]

Thank you for uploading all of your old GM footage. I’ve been following your car and electronics website since it’s inception.

[@toronado455]

HT4100 "received an enthusiastic reception" .... I wonder how long the enthusiasm lasted.

[@LowEnd31st]

They just straight up lie lol

[@stevenvanheel3932]

The 80’s was such a terrible time for Cadillac- their best engine available was the v8-6-4. That engine had drive ability issues but there was nothing inherently wrong with the engine or the rest of the car. If the cylinder deactivation was disabled it was actually a good engine. The rest of the engine options throughout the 80’s were inherently flawed in many ways.

[@toronado455]

Yes, my understanding is the V8-6-4 is a version of the 368, which is a version of the 425 which is a version of the 472. So really it’s a good engine when you disable the cylinder deactivation.

[@riotautorepair9662]

The 80s was a terrible time for all of gm

[@stevenvanheel3932]

@@riotautorepair9662 thier 80’s pickup trucks were pretty good other then the extreme corrosion issues. That is typically only an issue for salt belt states though.

[@averyparticularsetofskills]

Steven, that "V8,6,4" was ABSOLUTELY not their "best" engine in the 80s Lol....what bought you to that conclusion??

[@pcno2832]

I've heard that the deactivation system was OK as long as you disabled the 6 cylinder mode. Its hard enough getting a V6 to run smoothly with only 6 even-firing pistons; the firing order with them 90 degrees apart must have been a real mess.

[@CarharttDADDY]

I owned this gen vehicle and combined with the HT4100 is why I have never come back to Cadillac \

[@SuperBooboo02]

had an 87 fleetwood delegance, with the 4.1 v8....was a great car, no real engine issues, but was a bit underpowered...

[@Toolaholic7]

The 4.1 had headgaskets problems and ate up camshafts.The camshafts were too soft

[@klwthe3rd]

That's because by 1987, which was the last year for the 4100 motor, most of the bugs were worked out of it. The 1982 model year, the first year, suffered really really badly. It's important to note that the 4.1 4100 motor was always intended to be in the front drive Cadillac from the beginning. It was a NEVER intended to be put in the heavier rear wheel drive cars but was authorized due to the increasing difficult CAFE standards of the time. Their increase weight, caused this engine to suffer even more problems.

[@johnfranklin5277]

@@Toolaholic7 I have my dads 83 Eldorado he bought new. Beautiful car, rides like a cloud, so comfortable inside. Gorgeous leather interior. I inherited in 2013. Has the original HT 4100. 148.000 miles, still purrs like new. He also coincidentally bought a brand new 1985 sedan de ville. I was with him when he bought it. Very handsome car, served them well until they traded it in 1992. No major issues.

[@Toolaholic7]

@@johnfranklin5277 My dad remembers the headgasket and camshaft failures with this engine.He replaced one once,headgaskets went out in this one.

[@johnfranklin5277]

@@Toolaholic7 I'm sure some had issues. And that poor oil change intervals played a role. Dad was meticulous in his care of automobiles. 3000 mile oil changes, never hot rodding them, cooling system changes every 2 years, and adding the pellets that were required. He drove them 75 80 mph on the freeways. But that good maintenance pays off. This one has had that care, and is still running fine. In fact it just passed California smog test last month. It's put on a treadmill, and the test pipe goes in the exhaust tip. Then its run about 5 minutes at different speeds and different loads. I always worry its going to fail, at almost 40 years old. But fellow shuts it off, and said, it passed just fine 😊

[@jeffreyfelder7981]

The Sadillac years.... the only decent ones were the Seville and Eldorado, except when they went to the 4100

[@Matthieu260582]

can we all agree it will never be the same ever again, and forever.

[@TurboMan942]

That fuel cap holder is a really nice feature. Cadillac luxury!

[@Inadaze560]

My mother’s 1985 Mercedes Benz 500SEL had that feature as well. The little things add up :)

[@tylermacconnell217]

500SEL was a vastly superior car.

[@Inadaze560]

@@tylermacconnell217 yes, I must agree. I do have an affinity for these FWD Cadillacs however, we’ve been a Mercedes Benz family since this GM downsize. We still buy MB cars and GM trucks. Our preferred combination :)

[@justinstandifer604]

The worst Cadillacs were the ones with the Northstars. But those were mid 90s till 2011.

[@jasontengan1233]

70 Fleetwood Brouham held the most grace and elegance!

[@ic1815]

That black topped dash in the red and white interior didn’t make it to production. Glad because that looks awful. Good on Cadillac for making the entire dash match. Rather telling how they clearly mention how to replace things, even speakers, in this video. The face lifted version was so much better.

[@SpockvsMcCoy]

But was there still an available interior of white leather with dark red carpeting?

[@ic1815]

@@SpockvsMcCoy yes, that’s what I said. It became a totally red dash with white seats etc.

[@theretroblondie]

See, I actually think that dash looks kinda sharp. They would have to change the color of the seats, it would be too much color difference.

[@klwthe3rd]

I was wondering 🤔 about that. Never saw a two tone dash like that in that year Deville.

[@pcno2832]

2:00 Weren't the "single piece doors" just doors with permanently welded hinges? I remember some talk of body shops complaining about them, prompting a return to hinges with bolts. I suppose a bolt-on hinge could be welded at first, for a more precise alignment during manufacture, so that, if needed, a body shop could break the welds and use the play in the bolts to adjust it for a body that was a bit off, but I don't know if any manufacturers have actually done that.

[@briangil2163]

Hate to have been a salesman then trying to push this.

[@lloydandbethbeiler8127]

Was a honda man---double wish bone suspension!

[@foxtrot312]

SOLD! I'm going to rush out and buy one now...

[@ronaldmiller2740]

GREAT VIDEO!!!

[@freddyhoyt1849]

The HT 4100 engine was a piece of junk

[@JJVernig]

Just take the Diesel 🤔🤣

[@ic1815]

Like the Northstar, these were better in their later years, but still not great.

[@Toolaholic7]

Headgasket problems and ate up camshafts.The camshafts were too soft

[@davemiller7633]

Excellent video

[@Lakeman3211]

The old 6 cylinder v8 four banger, with the optional high styling engine compartment components that most Cadillac owners would never be caught under the hood..

[@gfy69]

ok that bit about the Cimarron had me laughing 😂 at

[@MrBlonde294]

never liked the design of those FWD Cadillacs, i prefer the RWD cars of Cadillac

[@manofthehour6856]

Wow, the '85 was able to (barely) outrun the Fairmont wagon and Malibu at the stoplight Grand Prix! The wholesale switch from FWD was the biggest drop in Cadillac prestige that it still is working at reclaiming. The current cars are certainly respectable, but these vehicles built to a price truly put a dent in the car's reputation.

[@Toolaholic7]

The 4100 was a turd,had headgasket problems and ate camshafts up

[@jeffscomp]

Those were real nice cars.

[@DavidPysnik]

Cadillac’s video can brag about these all they want, but they were just too small and similar to other GM siblings to be worthy in the eyes of its heritage. Each subsequent update in 87, 89, and 94 made the car larger as Cadillac discovered it went too far in its downsize frenzy. The plan was to get rid of the then full-sized Fleetwood Brougham at this time, but that car stayed around over a decade longer and was essentially replaced by the equally large Escalade. The HT 4100 was a disappoint with poor power and head gasket issues. Though the 4.5 and 4.9 engines and cars based on it were generally better, there were a lot of growing pains for Cadillac with these cars and it definitely helped the Europeans and the newly minted Japanese luxury brands take market share away from what was America’s top luxury brand. Today, Cadillac is just a mere shadow of what it was, and these tiny Devilles, though good sellers in their day, in the long run contributed to Cadillac’s mighty fall from grace.

[@MarkWG]

They did not sell well at all. Cadillac lost 65% of it's market share. Even worse with the hideous 86 Eldorado and Seville. Cadillac died a long time ago.

[@geneo317]

When Cadillac started destroying their image

[@johneddys2351]

Body Frame Integral Construction. Sweet. Lost technology that we'll never get back. Only in a Cumeron.

[@timpriddy349]

diesel 350...........oh the humanity

[@kellanhills1972]

The problem as I see it was the 85 Cadillac was a good car in some ways. But no better than any other luxury GM brands.

[@therealjayseh]

He meant lower 1st gear for better off line performance. 😁

[@mamz1404]

اللهم صل وسلم وبارك على عبدك ورسولك محمدﷺ

[@metalcreatures3039]

"Electron-eek" "Dynam-eek"

[@user-ff4do6ij6n]

مشكلتها كثيرة الأعطال

[@jimmya2578]

The uneducated troll comments on these vids from people have who have nothing better to do crack me up 😂.

[@therealjayseh]

They are only repeating what they hear 👂🙉

[@pcno2832]

24:57 "If you're looking for the future" ... blah, blah, blah, etc. I've always wondered what the people who were hired to record jingles like that were thinking. Did they like their jobs? Did they take their work seriously, or were they ready to burst out laughing? I'll bet some were slumming musicians hoping to do more important things one day.

[@Whiteboytripping]

Where my phat 472 at

[@Zickcermacity]

"Side 1" "Side 2" Was this on a laser disc?

[@michaelcharach]

Looks great. No way this was an old tape..

[@Zickcermacity]

@@michaelcharach Wow, a video tape with side 1 and 2? First time for everything i guess

[@michaelcharach]

@@Zickcermacity no. It’s a Laser Disc for certain

[@Zickcermacity]

@@michaelcharach Didn't you just say above "no it's an old tape"? You're talking to an A/V professional.

[@michaelcharach]

@@Zickcermacity looks like I said no way it’s a tape..

[@mankind8088]

SOMEONE UPLOAD THE SONG SPIRIT OF TOMORROW SPIRIT OF CADILLAC SONG

[@wincrasher2007]

What a disaster of a car for GM. Totally abandoned their brand for Cadillac with this cheaply built car. GM had totally unrealistic expectations that they could attract a younger customer base with this crappy car.

[@andrewcolsen]

You can thank GM CEO Roger Smith for that. He thought EVERYONE in the 80s wanted a front wheel drive car and cut cost by rebranding cars from other GM divisions. The man was the first of a few CEOs to help ruin GM.

[@wincrasher2007]

@@andrewcolsen yes. part of this was a sense of desperation at the time - they revamped almost all models at the time in a hopeless attempt to answer the Japanese and germans, on top of a disastrous implementation of robotics which were nowhere near ready technologically and open hostility towards the UAW because they thought the robots would reduce headcount.

[@aimxdy8680]

@@andrewcolsen the 80s in general was a terrible time for cars, ever since the oil crisis, lots of cars became underpowered and FWD.

[@RenNakamura20]

Cheaply built, I don't think so. I have an 1986 with this motor and it's the most smoothest high quality vehicle I've driven! U have to pay up the butt now to get cars that have half the leather on the door panels now. I have never had any issues with my 4.1, sure a lot of them did suffer reliability issues but that was more of the early ones that were in the rwd cars. Now the Northstar was a severe piece of junk if we shall talk about what's really a piece of crap, compared to the 4.1

[@MarkWG]

Due to these misguided decisions by then GM Chairman Roger Smith, who demanded that all GM cars show "corporate continuity", Cadillac lost more than half of its commanding lead in the luxury market by an astounding 65%. Luxury buyers did not want subcompacts costing $35,000.00. They ran to Lincoln, Mercedes, Infinity, Lexus, and even Chrysler. Cadillac has never recovered completely.

[@TeeroyHammermill]

Nice cars in their time but they fell apart quickly and didn't age well. Usually didn't go 70,000mi without some major problem.

[@retroguy9494]

Nice hype. Its just too bad that these cars were crap! Which is why you never see any of them today. Not even many collectors have them. 1985 to 1988 FWD Cadillacs were junk, but the '85 was probably the worst.

[@dextermorgan4337]

FWD Cadillac the bad years

[@dkmorris713]

Why does everyone hate front wheel drive? It's a fucking luxury car, nobody cares about how neutral the handling is. Let it understeer all it wants. Give me a boat that floats and seats I can get lost in.

[@andrewcolsen]

@@dkmorris713 Finally! Agree with you 1,000%!

[@777jones]

@@dkmorris713 although this doesn’t answer your question, the Lincoln Town Car should explain it for you. Bulletproof mechanical configuration. To make FWD as robust, reliable and durable as RWD required much more skill. The Japanese did it, but a Detroit never did.

[@RenNakamura20]

​@@dkmorris713I agree, I have an 86 Cadillac Sedan DeVille fwd and I absolutely love it, especially where I live which is Vermont I don't recommend a rwd car here for there are too many hills and curves. At the time the fwd Cadillac DeVille came out u could still get an updated version of the previous generation DeVille simply called the Cadillac Brougham that was rwd, and carbureted. So no one was losing out at the time, if u still wanted the traditional rwd then u buy the Brougham but if you wanted something that was a bit easier to drive and that would be a better all season car then u get the new fwd DeVille. I prefer the fwd over the rwd, i think it feels better in my opinion

[@bmt336]

The beginning of the real downslide for Cadillac. Nothing was special about these cars. Blew the door open for Lexus and Infinity.

[@robertparnell6731]

I sold these cars new, and I just sat there with a pit in my stomach when I saw these miserable excuses for a Cadillac.

[@mankind8088]

4100 THE GREATEST ENGINE OF ALL TIME

[@SolamenteVees]

Chuggle. I love when you talk dirty to me. 8:28

[@motoxdudeNV-UT]

When Cadillac and Lincoln abandoned RWD platforms I abandoned them forever... now Cadillac and Lincoln are high-tech econo-boxes with no prestige or elegance. Cadillace screwed-over their customers with the Olds 350 Diesel, the V 7-5-3 and the HT 4100 POS! Keep hitting your customers over the head and eventually they will move-on never to return to your brand!

[@mammothscott1455]

Agreed. Had the 87 Sedan, had to replace the engine at around 100K miles! Did keep that car for nearly 20 years, though will NEVER buy another Cadillac. Switched to Ford until quality stopped being Job One. Now driving a Honda, my first foreign make.

[@danr1920]

No longer the best in the world.

[@user-ys2wp4cr9g]

Ah yes, the Cimmaron, the American Rolls Royce 😂🤮

[@jeffsmith-ze6wb]

The 4100 4.1L was one of the worst things Cadillac ever produced!!!