Top 5 Thunderbolt 5 Features | CalDigit

[@CalDigitHQ]

A little addendum on using Thunderbolt 4 cables with Thunderbolt 5 connections: Thunderbolt 4 cables working at Thunderbolt 5 speeds depends on support from the host computer. Thunderbolt 4 and 5 cables are almost identical; in fact, they are physically constructed to the same standards. The major difference is in how the cable digitally identifies itself. This identification largely determines power delivery capabilities (Thunderbolt 5 mandates 240W Power Delivery support, so the cable firmware has to announce this), but part of this identification is the also the cable reporting its own speed. As we mentioned in the video, the updates to Thunderbolt speed are not in the cable, but instead the density of data being transmitted and received by the computer and device, via the sampling rate being doubled. This is all handled outside of the cable itself, which just transmits the data its given. When determining the type of connection, USB vs Thunderbolt, etc., the host computer talks to the device on the other side of the connection and figures out the best specification they can both support (if both devices are Thunderbolt 5, it will want to select that). Sometimes, that's the end of things, allowing a Thunderbolt 5 connection to be initialized, even if a Thunderbolt 4 cable connects the two Thunderbolt 5 devices. However, the computer manufacturer can force the computer to also check the Thunderbolt cable's identity when making a decision. In this scenario, a Thunderbolt 4 cable will tell the computer it can only support up to a Thunderbolt 4 connection, and the entire connection could drop down from Thunderbolt 5 to Thunderbolt 4. So far, we haven't seen any manufacturers check this reporting, but it is a possibility that can impact Thunderbolt 4 cables' compatibility in the future. Additionally, all of this only applies to normal "passive" Thunderbolt 4 cables. The architecture of longer "Active" Thunderbolt cables has changed somewhat substantially between Thunderbolt 4 and 5, so Active Thunderbolt 4 cables will only work at Thunderbolt 4 speeds.

[@joeljrichards]

Does this include optical thunderbolt cables? Or thunderbolt 3 cables?

[@CalDigitHQ]

@@joeljrichards Thunderbolt 3 cables "might" be compatible, but the changes are more substantial, so your mileage may vary even more than with Thunderbolt 4. Physical construction of TB4 cables are not held to the same standard, and the microchip that Thunderbolt 3 cables use to identify themselves is more radically different than Thunderbolt 4 and 5. All of this leads to more variables that can force the Thunderbolt connection down to 40Gbps or introduce errors. In our testing, we were able to use some Thunderbolt 3 cables at Thunderbolt 5 speeds, but lower quality or non-standard cables could run into issue. The major concern is of data loss in the cable. Like we mentioned in the video, the sampling rate is being doubled with Thunderbolt 5, which is what allows the new 80Gbps speeds. Increasing the sampling rate also decreases the tolerance for faults in the connection. For example, a poorly shielded cable could corrupt even individual bits of data transmitting through the Thunderbolt connection, which could in turn necessitate entire chunks of data to be re-transmitted or lead to degraded performance in other ways. Regarding both Active and Optical Thunderbolt 3 cables, our preliminary testing showed potential issues even maintaining Thunderbolt 3 speeds when a Thunderbolt 5 device was at either end of the connection; the connection sometimes dropped down to 20Gbps Thunderbolt 2 speeds and could only support a single monitor. This test pool isn't large enough for us to say anything definitive, but Thunderbolt 3 cables seem to be less likely to be properly compatible with Thunderbolt 5 at Thunderbolt 5 speeds.

[@wikiolos]

@@CalDigitHQ What is your testing setup for Thunderbolt 5?

[@CalDigitHQ]

@@wikiolos I can't say all the specifics, but we tested a couple different Thunderbolt 5 devices with different Thunderbolt 5 host computers, including the Thunderbolt 5 Razer Blade. We've tested various cables from multiple manufacturers. The optical cable was the Corning TB3 Optical cable, and the Active TB3 cables were some of ours and some others.

[@Matt-Holdren]

@@CalDigitHQ does this mean that a TB4 cable could operate at TB5 speeds but only charge at 100W if it doesn’t say it’s capable of 240 or will is lower the speed as well if it senses less than 240W?

[@starvinglawstudent]

The best Thunderbolt 5 video out at the moment.

[@thebritishindian1]

I haven’t been this excited since I saw USB the first time compared to my old parallel printer cable.

[@DH-8xx8-DM]

Totally Agree, is the best explanation that I saw about Thunderbolt 5. I'm waiting for the New TS5 with these all features.

[@MrX8503]

Can’t wait to see your TB5 dock.

[@Specified5706]

TB5 Dock when?

[@CreativeMindsAudio]

I am very excited about the new TB5 Cal Digit hubs!

[@peternavanac9310]

Thanks for taking the time to make a complex concept both simple and thorough

[@stjernholmreviews]

Best video explainer I have seen on a subject like this. Great work guys! Simplicity requires intelligence! 👍

[@motnoslo]

Yes, we can't wait for you to show us the release plan for the TS5. 🙂

[@Andru]

Looking forward to getting my hands on the new gear!

[@Matt-Holdren]

Great video. Please add 10 gig Ethernet on the rear and a CF express B card to the front of the TS5 dock!

[@rodneyturnerphoto]

Totally agree.

[@melgross]

Yes.

[@centralplexxus]

Please add 10 GE This is getting ridiculous

[@melgross]

@@centralplexxus that’s not ridiculous, it really the next standard, I already have it on two of my machines. Unless you mean that the high speed is getting ridiculous. I would agree, but 100GE is here.

[@centralplexxus]

@@melgross what i meant is that we have reached 80 gigs on TB5 but 10 gig Eth still isn’t standard

[@supercompooper]

I love you Caldigit !

[@Notacet]

You guys rock, my caldigit TS3 is a rock solid powerhouse still!

[@xingzhexin8843]

The Tech Chap's video had a close up shot of the Caldigit TS5 Plus. Can't wait for that one to come out!

[@Lugo1993]

when is the TS5 coming? can‘t wait

[@lappodude]

it is out in marked.

[@ThePJMcConnell]

New Apple products have it

[@Lugo1993]

@ i didn‘t mean TB5, i mean your new Thunderbolt 5 Dock - TS5 ? :)

[@melgross]

@@lappodudeCalDigit doesn’t have any yet. I checked their site yesterday.

[@michaelmanus7765]

I would love to the the Element upgraded to Thunderbolt 5. What a perfect addition to the Mini Pro

[@Kevin6t8]

I just set up my M4 Pro Mac Mini with the 14/20 chip upgrade and no Ram or Storage upgrades. Not needed for my use case. I have external storage. I look forward to seeing how well it performs.

[@j340_official]

I have a TS4, can't wait to see your TS5. Consider also offering an NVME solution!

[@KD9ZHF]

Luscious locks of hair...

[@jmssun]

Great video!!

[@jsowerby999]

I've been debating about getting an 18 inch laptop but only the razor has TB5. I was going to stick with TB4 but I think this video has convinced me to wait for TB5

[@AndresTheDesigner]

Please make a sexy space black version of a thunderbolt 5 dock. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@mgene63]

Great video! Thank you

[@dogoku]

I had no idea we can reuse TB3/4 cables. I already have 240w rated cables, so I guess I'm good to go

[@melgross]

Be very careful with tb3 cables though.

[@artysanmobile]

Ok, passionate peripherals has entered the convo.

[@TheJoaolyraaraujo]

Great video

[@pkerry12]

So when are you coming out with a thunderbolt 5 dock? I am still waiting for that, I don't want to upgrade my TB3 untill you have a TB5

[@shuhuan0329]

I already spotted the ts5 plus in many KZbinr’s hands on video with new Macs. There is one setup there with dual Pro Display XDRs and two thunderbolt external drives, and that hub is obliviously TS5

[@TonyCrenshawsLatte]

#5 is the best news. I'm sure I'm not the only one frustrated by "these two cables look pretty much the same, but this one supports the new standard, and that one doesn't."

[@mvp_kryptonite]

Brilliant!

[@lynsmith1096]

Very good video

[@HakonBroderLund]

I’m expecting TB5 docks at CES in January. Exiting times

[@ahgflyguy]

Any idea if there will be TB5 docks / hubs with integrated NVME slots? They didn’t make sense with the JHL8440 due to there only being a single lane of NVMe available on that chip, but they made a lot of sense on the JHL7440. The problem was outbound bandwidth if you wanted to use that capability and had displays on the same hub, it got slow. But with the asymmetric mode inTB5, that should be fixed, right? Source: I just picked up a JHL7440-based D50 dock on sale with an NVMe slot and DP 1.4, and a downstream port. Old TB3 gear is great!

[@CalDigitHQ]

@@ahgflyguy We’ve always been mostly concerned with heat management on installable NVME modules. From the bandwidth perspective, it does make more sense now with TB5, but from the heat perspective, the new power capabilities of Thunderbolt 5 can generate more heat than ever before. What we do remains to be seen here, but as with TB4, there’s almost certainly going to be integrated NVMe slots in some TB5 docks.

[@GeoffCooper]

Cool - so when can we expect some TB5 devices from you? A new hub perhaps..?

[@JohnWilliams-gy5yc]

When will we have TB5 to PCIe 4.0 x16 enclosure?

[@calebleuciuc670]

WHEN IS THE TS5 COMING !!!!!!!

[@mohamedelshekhiby8247]

hi i have TS4 love it. my issue is this , i have a laptop connected at all times to the wall charger , i connect the TS4 through thunderbolt4 , now the issue how to know which power input is powering the laptop, the TS4 power delivery or the wall charger ??? also, can i stop the thunderbolt usb c power delivery without disabling the connection part of it so the TS4 can keep working data wise but i draw the laptop power from the wall charger.

[@CalDigitHQ]

Generally if you have the computer's original power cable and the TS4 in, the computer will pick the original power cable. Sometimes the computer will pick the highest power source if it can handle it You cannot disable the power delivery from hardware, but depending on the computer, you may be able to do this with software. I believe AlDente, on macOS, can do something like this, and there are almost certainly programs on Windows that can accomplish this as well.

[@mohamedelshekhiby8247]

@@CalDigitHQ ok so the laptop picks the power input to use automatically. So is there a way to know which power input is used to power the laptop ??

[@CalDigitHQ]

@@mohamedelshekhiby8247 That one will depend on the computer. Your computer may report somewhere what power source it is pulling from, but that's not always the case.

[@daggerman-dcgk]

I am most interested in this: Will TB5 support a 5K display at 120Hz?

[@CalDigitHQ]

It should. 4k 240hz is supported on a single monitor, and that takes up more bandwidth than a 5k 120hz connection.

[@daggerman-dcgk]

@@CalDigitHQ Thank you for your reply. Then I have hopes that we will see an Apple 5K Studio Display with ProMotion sometime in the next 1 to 2 years. 🤞

[@Mniko_Tech]

looking forward Thunderbolt 5 mini hub

[@hazriq9615]

Is this a hint Caldigit is releasing their TB5 product soon?

[@CalDigitHQ]

We're always working on new products! I can't comment on anything specific, but something is on the horizon.

[@AriPalo]

Can't wait for TS5 dock! Hoping for: - Backside: - 1x TS5 host port with ~140W charging - 2x TS5 downstream ports - 1x 10GbE SFP+ slot - 1x 10GbE Ethernet port - 1x Optical audio out - 1x 3.5mm audio out - 1x 3.5mm audio in - 4x USB-A 3.2Gen2 ports - 2x USB-C 3.2Gen2 ports - 2x DisplayPort 2.1 - Frontside: - 2x USB-C 3.2Gen2 ports (one with 20W charging) - 1x USB-A 3.2Gen2 port - 1x Audio combo jack - 1x SD UHS-III card reader - 1x microSD UHS-III card reader

[@jameshiggins26]

That’s nice. Now where is the TS5? Also, I see TB5 will support three 4k 144hz displays. What about two 4k 240hz? Enough bandwidth or no?

[@CalDigitHQ]

I believe dual 4k240hz is a little outside of the range of possibility. 4k240hz is around 8k60hz in bandwidth, and that's only supported in a single monitor configuration.

[@Meerkat000]

TB5 pcie cards?

[@cubano100pct]

I have the TS4 dock for my 2019 MacBook Pro Intel. I waiting for the TS5. It would be nice if it has a M2.slots so I can add my own MVNe SSD storage.

[@zachwarner7164]

Where is the TS4 hub? :)

[@CalDigitHQ]

TS4 already exists!

[@zachwarner7164]

@@CalDigitHQ smh, i meant TS5 :(

[@ferdinandbardamu3945]

Hello, dual 25 GBit external network adapters?

[@CalDigitHQ]

Anything is possible, but I'm not sure how the market for something like that would look.

[@WillJauregui]

So this definitely means a Caldigit TS5 with 10gb Ethernet is coming

[@VictorVedmich]

Waiting for new dock!!! 🎉

[@dyong888]

TB5 Docking Station!!!! UGreen is already releasing theirs!

[@xXxCobraCommanderxXx]

I would've bought your TB5 hub, but it's not ready and I needed one now. Lost customers...

[@stefandahlmann4538]

Thunderbolt 5 is fine. When CalDigit have a thunderbold 5 hub in the program for the new M4 Pro and M4 Max Mac's?

[@CalDigitHQ]

We're hard at work! Hopefully we'll have something to show soon!

[@Silverwing_99]

Please, please have support for 8k monitors and importantly, 10gbe ethernet. The cost of one of these tb3 to 10gbe lan is almost 3/4 the cost of the awesome ts4.

[@mistertwo6113]

Cool. I'm always excited by advances in technology. But, big deal - this household now has two USB-C "smart"phones, a -C eHDD, and two -C PCs... Maybe, just maybe some of the new stuff we get (and can afford) will have some of this tech. Thank you for the preview.

[@CalDigitHQ]

Thunderbolt 5 has just begun rolling out onto computers this year. It will definitely take some time for it become widely adopted, but we'll be there to offer some cool accessories!

[@ChochoLevi]

Where is your Thunderbolt 5 dock? I can't wait

[@peterkwanwk]

We don't need to buy new cable!

[@michaelthornes]

I believe active cables don't work at TB5 speeds. so apple cables and any other 3m cables. the rest should be good to go

[@leyvarecio3699]

Is this the standard to rule them all??

[@RayTube519]

I really wish that technical verbiage was not misused. "Sampling rate" is very far from correct. Even if that was doubled, it would not increase throughput one bit. Maybe you meant signaling rate? But even that would be wrong. Gen 3 USB4 connections use a 20 GBaud symbol rate, with each symbol being a single bit. This gives you 20 GBit/s per wire pair. Gen 4 operation increases the symbol rate to 25.6 GBaud, and also sends trits instead of bits. This results in ~40.58 GBit/s per wire pair. So Gen 4 operation increases the symbol rate slightly, but achieves most of its bandwidth improvements with the more efficient modulation. At no point is there any doubling in this. Least in a sampling rate, which would be very much an implementation detail.

[@CalDigitHQ]

Thank you for your comment. Your explanation here is much more holistic and technically accurate, and will no doubt be helpful for those looking for additional information in the comments (hopefully this comment can help add on to this). However, these concepts are difficult to fully understand without knowledge of the surrounding technologies. Our goal here was to offer an explanation that is not necessarily completely technically perfect, but rather in a way that is digestible and is visually informative. Essentially, we're aiming to be "informative enough", that anyone can understand the big picture ideas going into this update without having to know specifics or getting information overload. When we refer to "sampling rate", we do not mean any individual change to the specification, but rather the total enhanced capabilities of Thunderbolt 5. This encompasses both the baud/ symbol rate update (mentioned above) as well as the modulation and demodulation capability changes from the update to PAM-3 (the bits vs. trits mentioned above). PAM-3 allows each symbol in the PHY layer to carry 1.58 bit (or 1.57 bit - 99% efficiency) instead of PAM-2's (or NRE's) 1 bit/symbol, thus each Gen4 channel can do 25.6G (Gen4's baud rate. Gen3's baud rate is 20G) * 1.57 = 40.2Gbps data rate - this is the real secret of jumping from Gen3's 40Gbps to Gen4's 80Gbps based on the different baud rates and modulations, as you mentioned. We considered different wording for this segment, but we were concerned that other explanations we came up with could suggest there's some kind of compression going on with the connection, which we wanted to explicitly avoid. Ultimately, we felt "sampling rate" was the best phrase to encompass this concept holistically while still being readily understood by most people, plus it allowed us to re-use the highway visualization done in 120Gbps boost mode (video only). Yes, the visualization and explanation is technically inaccurate to some degree, in that it suggests there is a single specification change leading to the updated speeds instead of the actual two discreet variables. Nonetheless, we found it the most simple and effective way to convey these concepts. Like I said above, our goal in this video is in part to explain these concepts in a way that people without context can easily understand. There's a balance to strike with that, and maybe we could have done better, particularly in our explanation of where Thunderbolt 5's bandwidth gains come from, but overall we feel we did a pretty good job. Again, thank you for leaving this comment, we're always happy to see the spread of knowledge surrounding Thunderbolt technology, even if we're trying to communicate it in different ways.

[@RayTube519]

@@CalDigitHQ I am positively surprised how readily you have technically accurate information available. I reworded my first sentence. And its not that I require sth. to be very technical. I just do want it to be not misusing technical verbiage and/or contradictory. And I think there are abstractions that are not wrong in this way: 40 Gbps *passive* cables include untapped reserves. 80Gbps connections run slightly faster on the cable. This paired, with the controllers operating with considerably more precision allows the total bandwidth to be doubled with existing cables. Sadly, particularly the longer cables include *active* electronics that are not forward compatible like that. This should avoid any technical details, while still alluding to the fact, that 80Gbps does require more of cables and not every cable type works this way. Just that certified & compliant passive cables have already fulfilled those higher requirements from the start.

[@CalDigitHQ]

@@RayTube519 We appreciate your point of view, and like I alluded to in the previous comment, we were going back and forth on our terminology before we landed here. We'll work on being more precise with our wording in future projects. We're very acutely aware of the influence and position of authority we have when explaining these topics, and we want to do right by everyone. Regarding our statements on the Thunderbolt cable, you are absolutely right on the differences between passive and active when jumping forward to Thunderbolt 5. I'll update the pinned comment to reflect that.

[@TheRitualChannel]

I'm happy Thunderbolt cables cost less these days, more like $30 now vs. $50 before.

[@michaelthornes]

I've been getting them for $12-25 for 1-2m cables from my favorite brand on amazon. pretty good!

[@JoelDino]

TS5 when?

[@CalDigitHQ]

@@JoelDino Ensuring the highest quality and reliability in our products is very important to us. We’re definitely working on some Thunderbolt 5 products, and we’ll announce them when they’re ready!

[@mipad553]

Why thunder bolt why not optical fibre port?

[@CalDigitHQ]

I'm not sure if this is the case for TB5, but Thunderbolt 3 could be carried over optical fiber, and there are some Thunderbolt 3 optical cables. The problem with optical is that it cannot carry power, so it would not be able to charge portable hosts like laptops.

[@mipad553]

@CalDigitHQ then how fiber broadband is working? Why cannot laptop

[@melgross]

@@mipad553are you saying that fiber broadband carries power? I don’t believe that’s true. I’ve had GHz Fios for quite a while and there’s no power in that cable.

[@centralplexxus]

Please upgrade Networking to 10 Gb Eth

[@horstsauer9089]

A ton of new features? I see only 4 in that video. And even they are questionable. Not to mention the high prices and the short lengths of the TB5 cables...

[@snoozy355]

It's as if Carmack and Romero had a baby?

[@CalDigitHQ]

I'm going to choose to take that as a compliment. Thanks! 🙂

[@hacked2123]

...why not just add a pair of fiber optic links to it...and two pairs of higher awg cables to handle higher amperage...nothing here is impressive any more than making a new tungsten filament of an incandescent bulb that is twice as bright and last twice as long.

[@AndyK.1]

Well if they can do it without any new ports, cables or fibres then that has to be good and cheap?

[@hacked2123]

@@AndyK.1 that's what USB4 is for. Thunderbolt should be revolutionary if it wants to be relevant

[@DesignsbyBlanc]

⚡️⚡️⚡️

[@typhlosionmaster6832]

I’m not holding my breath, but could you imagine if the Nintendo Switch 2 had this? We could have eGPU’s.

[@Aperez]

Bye bye USB-C! 🤣

[@CalDigitHQ]

Hi Punchy!

[@LuisCordova777]

Who runs into data constraints with their thunderbolt4 cables? 🤔

[@runadumb]

One big application for this is for an external GPU. You can't get enough bandwidth

[@CalDigitHQ]

Dual 4k60hz monitors takes something around 32Gbps, which leaves 8Gbps left in Thunderbolt 4. One external SSD transfer could saturate the rest of that connection.

[@BinaryClay]

I do - Im running my Nvidia 3090 in an egpu and I am missing 15-20 percent of the performance I would get if I had it built in. As I use the egpu for 3 different systems I really dont have any other option.

[@tld8102]

Thunderbolt 5 sounds expensive

[@davidseymour6246]

The thing I can’t understand is…you’ve all known this is coming and yet while Apple is pumping TB5-equipped computers into the world, not one peripheral company has a product yet on the market. Has the delay been in making the device sufficiently ‘passionate’ maybe? 🤔

[@CalDigitHQ]

Thunderbolt 5 is an incredibly complex bit of technology, and even though it has existed for some time as a theoretical specification, the protocol has been updated several times as internal testing and product development has run into bugs and snags in the real world. Our Engineers have been hard at work making sure that our implementation of Thunderbolt 5 is as stable and reliable as possible, and when we're happy with that we'll be ready to release what we've been working on.

[@davidseymour6246]

Excellent (and interesting) reply - thanks. I withdraw my comment after being better educated! :)

[@manchumuq]

While thunderbolt 4 devices are still rare except Apple products.

[@CalDigitHQ]

There's hundreds of Thunderbolt 4 devices that aren't from Apple: www.thunderbolttechnology.net/products?tid=All&field_prod_os_value_many_to_one=windows&field_prod_tb_version_value_many_to_one=tbv4&field_dp_capabilities_value_many_to_one=All&field_company_nid=All

[@TheParkanyi]

Good news for that 10 people who will have Thunderbolt 5 PC-s and devices in the next *decade* 🤣