California State University sees drastic enrollment drop

[@tayzonday]

It’s almost like the cost of college has quadrupled over four decades for no reason- because instructor pay has declined at the same time.

[@commonsense126]

Studies show that all that extra cost is in administration and better dorms. Administration grows as government requirements grow. The dorms getting fancier were for competition amongst schools. Just fyi.

[@dragonfly6320]

Same with the trucking industry: freight rates tendered have gotten lower while inflation keeps going up… makes zero sense

[@ldfreitas9437]

@@commonsense126 Corporate greed is driving this.

[@ldfreitas9437]

@@dragonfly6320 Corporate greed. The fact is that executives are making 400 times more than the average worker, when it was once 40% more fifty years ago. Also, dividends. 5%-6% growth on investment used to be the norm. Now it's got to be well over 20%.

[@commonsense126]

​@@ldfreitas9437read Freedoms Forge then I'll discuss that topic with you.

[@IAMHERE486]

People are figuring out that many of these degrees aren’t leaning towards higher paying jobs.I’ve seen jobs where you must have a BA that starts at $23/hr.

[@RobertEdits]

Crazy cus thats damn near every entry job pay now

[@JMUK]

Not worry. Idiot Newsom is forcing fast food restaurants to pay a $20.00 minimum wage. That will not increase rent in the slightest

[@mwatercress]

Yeah, and there are some good union apprenticeships that pay about that and let them earn while they learn. We could use more people in this state that can build the houses and fewer who write the RFPs or more counterproductive propositions or regulations.

[@xchpstang]

Yea In N Out pays that to front line employees, so does Panda Express. For years CSU and UC would gladly take your money for that arts or humanities degree and now that the societal bill has come due, they're scratching their heads as to why enrollment is dropping. All those PhDs on campus and you can't figure this one out?

[@lotto5742]

I make more than that driving a forklift.

[@monsterpig3270]

My nephew struggled to get his college degree working two jobs while going to school at CSU. After he graduated, he now works two jobs to pay off his college debt and monthly expenses. This is not a life. It's slavery.

[@betchpuddin4545]

I dropped out of community college and was able to get a 6 fig job within 4 years in the banking industry, when I was hired i was making more than fresh 4 year graduate

[@frommarstosirius]

what was his degree

[@RS-of1om]

Teach woke and trannism people will run away

[@theodorafyn]

If it were slavery, he won’t be getting paid….

[@WadeBanks-fn7ns]

The ones graduating from the "good schools" are only doing so with the hope of being a slave master/ceo one day

[@justayoutuber1906]

The cost of tuition has risen 400% more than inflation - For over 20 years. It is embarrassing and disgusting!

[@joncarbone]

I thought school was supposed to be about the students.

[@vooteimer1234]

Bet you supported all the government meddling in higher edu that directly caused the skyrocketing pricetags

[@Notme-tq4xs]

@@vooteimer1234 he did

[@BossItUp911]

You will notice that anything the government intervenes in significantly such as education and healthcare (grants, loans, forgiveness, "free" medical coverage, etc.) results in the supply/demand balance out of wack and the price to skyrocket in comparison to inflation over time. Free markets are best.

[@Frugivorous]

I’ve invested in crypto last year & it is the best life decision I ever made because I am up 16k in 3 months.

[@tommybotts]

College is too expensive and too long. People don't want to go into huge debt for a degree and be forced to take classes that have nothing to do with their major. It's an unnecessary expense and negative use of time. College should be 3 years at most and classes should be localized to the degree at hand. Don't tell me you're making me a 'well rounded person' by forcing classes I don't want and need. There's the classes, the expensive books, the host of ancillary fees for things people don't care about, not to mention the scores of administrators who make 6 figure salaries doing nothing in particular. Find a decent trade school that's 18-24 months tops.

[@germanlopez9448]

best advice, thank you, hope young people read this.

[@beanerbon]

Should be two years not 3.

[@fry_productions]

I'm glad I went to a community college for a few years and that's it, no student loans. Would be so hard to pay off any loans in this economy.

[@Mr.Torres-Mr.Towers]

Usually people who complain about college are ones who did not go or went and obtained an over saturated degree. Meaning that degree is worthless literally or you have a lot of competition. If you would have asked me if my degree was worth it a couple of years ago I would agree with you and say no. Now as a licensed Civil Engineer making 250k and working my set hours of 30hrs a week I say it was well worth it but definitely not easy to obtain. This applicable to the trades, learn an actual “skilled” trade and become the best at it and surely your services and expertise will be well paid and desirable.

[@themarcusismael13]

Mostly right. Why don’t you look up what the CSU general education requirements are? I don’t know about you but I don’t want coworkers who don’t know how to write or speak proper English, don’t understand basic statistics or biology. We need educated and well rounded workers, not drones who only know their one role.

[@ll2323]

Gen Z saw what happened to millennials. Don’t get student loans!

[@MyNameisMyName25]

Too many useless degrees everyone is starting to figure this out

[@jeffereylew581]

Yes I remember when we joked that you were taking elementary basket weaving as a major

[@jeffereylew581]

I knew a friend that majored in Slavic languages at UC Berkeley…..he went to work as a bookkeeper for his father

[@safeandeffectivelol]

@@jeffereylew581 He could have applied at the state department. Other than that, not much use unless he planned to move to Eastern Europe.

[@xwrtk]

I know engineering, computer science majors who work fast food, retail and even daycare. The daycare worker gave up. The other people still actively applying since 2020 or 2021 depending on graduation year.

[@rzt430]

@@xwrtk computer engineering graduate here. working minimum wage, right beside all the tech companies in silicon valley. every man and his dog took IT/computer science/computer engineering. not to mention remote work allowed all companies to outsource to pretty much any country in the world. that's pretty much an infinite talent pool that you have to compete with. i feel quite pathetic right now, on the verge of giving up to restart and pursue something else to be honest..

[@IndigoStarrAz]

If you live at home and go to a CC for two years, then transfer to a 4 year college - the degree you wind up with is the same. Its a good deal.

[@longiusaescius2537]

Don't tell em...

[@0IIIIII]

You end up with two degrees, your associate’s from community college (CC) and your bachelor’s

[@OleJoe]

That's what I did.

[@Zhembi]

What I’m doing right now*

[@insight1428]

I went to a community college, lived at home, didn’t have to pay tuition or for classes, the books were always online for free. Pocketed the Finacial aid and Grant money. Basically made money by going to a CC. Now I’m at a pretty decent 4 year. Could have gone to a better one since I had a 3.9 gpa but it would have been way more expensive.

[@ta3263]

Also, the irrelevant classes the colleges force you to take otherwise you’re not getting your degree is another issue students are frustrated and in debt.

[@360entertainment2]

That’s one of the many things that stopped me from trying to get into college, I suck at math and I failed every algebra class I’ve ever taken and really don’t want to lose out on a degree because I can’t pass one class!

[@ingGS]

Absolutely, it is insane that Engineering students are forced to take “Dances of the old world” or courses in Sociology to get a degree about designing buildings and machines.

[@azharpatriawan7490]

There is a good cheat to that by going to community college which is free for students in California. you can take all your GE there and then take actual classes when you transfer

[@jlcarter04]

"Dances of the old world" 😂😂😂... I'm an engineer and my memorable BS class was ethnomuisicology. All that guy did was talk about playing bongos in Cuba. Learned nothing and had nothing to do with my major lol....​@ingGS

[@d3r3kyasmar]

Its worth going to college if you want to become a doctor, engineer, lawyer, and nurse.

[@SirenASMR_]

Engineer is going to be taken over by AI .. possibly also nursing .

[@pushslice]

Yes. Annnndd you don’t get there by going to a CSU school. .. Jk

[@DSquared17]

You can become a nurse at a community school.

[@safeandeffectivelol]

Lawyers don't make much money unless they go to a top law school. I know plenty of people with law degrees who end up doing taxes or work in HR.

[@lambertlum1087]

@@SirenASMR_ AI can't design the next iPhone. You need engineers to make the next iPhone. AI can certainly do mundane things, but for innovation and design, you need a human to methodically build.

[@Illyoxis]

I wish I could attend, but my rent alone takes up half my income while working full time.

[@jacobariworld5350]

Take a trade training like electrician, plumbing, carpentry...etc...

[@Lp0tr33]

California community college is free. And if you don't like inflation and other rising costs of living, stop voting for Democrats.

[@UpUpDnDnLtRtLtRtBAStart]

If you dont have a family, take a loan out to live and keep working while trying different NEW types jobs that you can manage during school.

[@UNTEMPTFULL]

@@jacobariworld5350trade isn’t for everyone

[@mikewhocheeseharry5292]

It won’t be easy but it changes your life. Going to college and not really makes a difference in us as individuals. Because what you learn in life, no one can take that away from you. Money can be made by different methods, but your life experiences and what you’ve learned can’t be bought. I had fun in a lot of my courses in school when it came to animation and multi media stuff. I’m done with school now and already learned what I needed. I can’t see myself being in school again at this stage of my life, but glad I did it while I was still in my late 20s.

[@luck9837]

Graduated about a year ago and im on my 1000th application and i have 5 years experience in my field, school hasn’t helped, its all nepotism in this world

[@eighthwonderproject1395]

I hope you find a good opportunity.

[@bryantclerkley7056]

I survived off talent and getting jobs but you have to have a degree that means something. But I get the frustration because I’ve had to apply to a lot of jobs in the beginning but after it was easier.

[@kimmarquis2354]

Calling BS. Just cause you have a degree, doesn’t make you employable. At this point, most college students now are seen as a huge liability with their college taught ideologies. Js

[@Cal-cf2vo]

What is your field?

[@forkoffgoogle]

Maybe you need to accept the fact that you were taken by a bunch of con artists and you're degree is worthless.

[@emptybuddha5308]

My classes at City College were just as good as any at SF State, so why pay more for those first 2 years…

[@heyaisdabomb]

Just depends on your major. City College is amazing, I did all of my pre reqs there, but when I transferred, the Computer Science courses where so intense, you could only take 3 per semester (for a workload of 60 to 70 hours per week), so that was 2 full years. Plus a few pre req's that only can be taken at your transfer school, and it was 3 years in total still. The problem is a lot of those pre reqs are easy classes, and they intend you will take 2 CS classes and 2 pre reqs per semester. But when you transfer, it's too late for that. So it's not so black and white, I had to pay rent for an extra year (5 year BS degree instead of 4 if I went straight to the school), so did I really save money? I don't really think so.

[@Cash4Fruit]

to get a 4 yr degree that employers require.... I went to CSM and its way better than the more expensive SJSU. I am going for my accounting degree and hope to be a CPA which requires a 4 yr degree.

[@DianaPrinceitiswhatitis]

Exactly and that is what I did.

[@wontondragon7139]

And you get free tuition at a community college (at least in CA anyway) so you can't beat that

[@temich1985]

SF State honestly felt just like the community college. If you want to do all 4 at univ, might as well get a real college experience like UCSB, Call Poly, or at the very least Santa Clara Univ

[@kellymoses8566]

A system of apprenticeships would be far more effective at training people in complex technology.

[@eatnplaytoday]

Yes 🙌. I wish I knew this when I was younger

[@averyjames4623]

You are correct. Learning a trade worked out well for me! 100k per year as an industrial maintenance worker and no student loans to pay back! And they called me a loser for not going to college… who’s laughing now?😂😂😂

[@iaw11]

My grandfather believed the same thing. He was a surgeon.

[@derikuk2967]

*AI* will replace many knowledge-based "drone" professionals like lawyers.

[@iaw11]

@@derikuk2967I disagree, I believe that lawyers will be even more empowered with machine learning. The law is argued in court, not mandated. There's also a political aspect of it. I refuse to be ruled by the machine.

[@mafp22w]

Colleges and Universities, like the medical industry, exist for those who work there, not for those who are to be served.

[@VisionClearly]

A perfect comparison!!!

[@justinboyd8383]

This isn't true. The problem is too many resources going to war, policing, and incarceration, and not enough going to make public universities tuition free.

[@socaljarhead7670]

No, don’t go making sense!

[@Runnifier]

When I was going to college in California it was really common for a student to experience homelessness. I maintained a 4.0 while being homeless, but I failed out the next semester. I think it was trauma. College just doesn’t work when you cannot afford rent and food.

[@mikeydude750]

Yeah that's a huge portion of the student loan problem here, just trying to afford living. I did a transfer from community college to a UC, then went on to grad school for a PhD after that. I ended up with around 100k in student loans despite getting the Pell grant because I was borrowing money just to pay the rent and costs of living so I could focus solely on studying hard and doing relevant internships and research. It paid off for me - I make ~160k a year now 2 years after my PhD and can easily afford my student loan payments, but many aren't so lucky.

[@heyaisdabomb]

​@@mikeydude750 College is largely what you make of it. Many just mess around and don't take it seriously. But when you get the right degrees and take it seriously, it can be the gateway to a better life. But the cost is getting out of control. I transferred from CC to private university for undergrad, and have over 100k in debt. Now looking at another 60k for grad school. College has literally doubled in cost in the past 10 years.

[@stevennguyen4993]

Not trauma. You were simply burned out.

[@Fantasyremix]

Do you hate your mom? Why were you homeless? That's ridiculous.

[@machupikachu1085]

@@Fantasyremix not everyone has the luxury of having parents, you insensitive lout.

[@zmansushi]

You can work at fast food and make $20/hour come April. Or you can get a college degree, secure a lot of student debt, and make only $23-25/hr after graduation with a monthly student debt payment. 🤔

[@richardf6932]

That is so true. It is crazy that the stuff you learn in school doesn't apply in most jobs. Maybe there are a few classes. If someone has common sense and willingness to learn attitude, a degree won't make a different. On the contrary, if someone isn't super bright and thinking the college will change that, well.....

[@thomaskim5008]

Not if you major in certain areas like nursing, computer science, engineering, etc.

[@justayoutuber1906]

Fast food jobs are already getting replaced by automation.

[@Nsgbattles]

This statement lacks proper context and is short sighted.

[@richardf6932]

@@Nsgbattles I think the original comment is saying that college will net you $3-$4 more an hour than fast food worker. If you have $20-40k student loan, the payback is a lifetime

[@joannleichliter4308]

With the advent of federal government intervention in the form of loans, colleges and universities felt free to increase tuition and fees exponentially. The same thing happened with health care as "health insurance" became increasingly common.

[@akaGort-pb6xu]

yes welfare at any level creates problems

[@kendallbr9166]

We are talking about college not bible study fool.

[@chunhaylee]

This is just vastly idiotic. Federal student loans and Pell Grants have been available since 1965. The recent increase in college tuition is directly related to reduced state support of state colleges.

[@joannleichliter4308]

Yes, in part that may be true (I was an undegraduate, a senior, in 1965-66), especially for newer colleges. However, the loan programs did have that effect. Older, well-established colleges (especially ivy league schools) took great advantage of these programs to avoid using endowment funds to assist with tuition. They also made big bucks with government financed research and programs. It's very neat, and I saw how it works a bit later in life.

[@douginorlando6260]

Non forgivable loans … debt slaves will never qualify for a home mortgage

[@az5129]

over $100k for a piece of paper that just puts you in consideration for a high paying job. It isn't a guarantee for the job. :/

[@BossItUp911]

Yes. IMO, good paying jobs are based on driving value, such as solving difficult problems, saving expensive people time, generating new revenue, and so forth. Four years of regurgitating known and easy concepts back on tests isn't a valuable skill to anyone.

[@christopherdelcastillo0077]

Only thing guaranteed are those student loans given by the gov, and a higher level of “education”.

[@rwdchannel2901]

Its too risky. They do have the blue to gold program that basically has scholarships and grants pay for a few years but that's not going to work for full tuition seeing most people take 5 years to get a bachelors degree. If you went to community college 2 years then transferred the next 2 years will be paid for but when the money runs out and you still need another year or 2 it's going to get you in at least $60,000 student loan debt at 7% interest which will be at least $120,000 you have to pay back over 20 years.

[@johnbeckwith1361]

And if you are White then that consideration becomes much less reliable.

[@hermeskino711]

Not even a consideration in some fields.

[@vulksen]

It makes a lot of sense and I hope the numbers continue to drop. My sister in law attended a CSU here in socal and was paying almost 1k per class. At this point, if you aren't doing something in STEM or medical, there's no point in paying thousands per semester. It's ridiculous that the future is in the hands of young people and yet young people can barely afford rent and food. We are heading towards a less educated America and it could have been prevented.

[@sanchezs7614]

Plus AI is taking over everything so best to get a job as a AI technician

[@nateb9768]

If you don't have a degree then you hit that glass ceiling pretty quickly. Jobs don't really care what kind of degree you have, they just want to see that you have one. I've hit that glass ceiling with part time jobs, that's why I'm graduating this year.

[@vulksen]

@@nateb9768 Not as easy as you make it sound. Depends on your area and yeah, more jobs are available to you, but some jobs will pay you shit even with a degree. I remember seeing jobs that required a bachelor's degree while paying $3 above minimum wage. Plus, having a degree in a place like San Francisco or Los Angeles doesn't mean shit when thousands of others also have the same thing. It helps, of course, but you're not special.

[@markm0000]

Psychotic boomers that believe the new generations must be obedient workers.

[@waynez5535]

It's like that in many parts of the world over educated young people, under staffed trades. The next boom industry will likely be senior care for the foreseeable next 25 years. AI ain't taking jobs changing diapers for old people.

[@miroyuki]

1. Too expensive to go to college 2. Schools have too many requirements 3. Not too many options for graduate students (online clases that so kit interfere with working adults’ life)

[@fleabag2mr.151]

Over priced and giving out worthless degrees😂😂😂.

[@WorldGoneMad1312]

💯

[@DarthCookieKS]

I have a buddy who majored in Physics. He now works as a truck driver for Ralphs

[@wvanyar1801]

Universities should not offer degrees that have zero demand. I know two people that got degrees that are worthless. They paid a lot of money for a degree nobody will bother asking about during the hiring process. Then there are the padding of classes that don’t count for the degree. I went to college back in the 1980s. I took almost a years worth of classes that had nothing to do with my degree. And I’m not talking about the woke classes of today but classes that were engineering classes but for a branch of engineering that I didn’t need. I’m an EE major. But I had to take classes that were Civil Engineering only. WHY? This is why college costs so much. The classes today are just more obvious that they are not needed. Gender studies for an engineering degree? Nope, don’t need that either.

[@DarthCookieKS]

@@wvanyar1801 I’m still majoring in Gender Studies. I hope to create my own gender someday

[@nc5481]

depends on the degree

[@Irene94044]

Go to collage and your stuck with a “House Payment “ and No House

[@Notme-tq4xs]

heck of a collage you got

[@992001jeffr]

I think you spelled a few of those words correctly.

[@NateDohDoubleGee]

@chuckd2435I didn't know what to say, but you nailed it. I'm cracking up over here!

[@grumpyschnauzer]

Let me tell you what happened when I was in grad school... CSU admitted twice as many students as normal and waived entrance exams to admit. Half way through our program they led on that the curriculum was going to change based on some accreditation process... a few months later a new requirement was set in place that would make half the cohort not be able to graduate on time without an apology or making exceptions. Our cohort organized a legal complaint against the department and sent it to the dean. The cohort admitted after us heard about it and did the same thing. We were able to be accommodated somewhat to graduate bypassing the new requirement though some who couldn't attend the commodation were held behind and had to pay to stay longer. They also admitted students without minimum tests knowing some were not equipped for graduate school. All this to take students tuition from them without guaranteed success and job placement. I've been applying for jobs for months and I can't get anything.

[@Leo-hwru]

People are starting to go to community college first. It’s not seen as a bad thing like it used to.

[@0IIIIII]

When in your opinion, did Community College even be seen as bad? I went to college 10 years ago when I was 18, right after high school. Nobody will tell you in real life that community college is bad. It’s only “bad” if it comes at the expense of going to a more elite school, but that’s not bad just non-optimal. The idea that cc is for losers never made sense to me. If that were true, what does that make the 2/3 of American adults with only high school education or less?

[@Leo-hwru]

@@0IIIIII I work for a csu, there used to be a bad stigma for going to a community college because of low graduation, low transfer rates and high acceptance rates. For some there still is, but more people are trending towards going.

[@abolisher]

I know a guy who went to community college and he became a millionaire. It’s not the school it’s the person.

[@baoboba]

community college is amazing. i got accepted into all the ucs and cal states i applied to after hs but went to community. first two years of cc is free and i’m actually getting reimbursed from the excess from the grants. my cc also has one of the highest transfer rates too. not too sure why it’s looked so down upon. you’re making better financial decisions and it has more flexibility.

[@navy4735]

how is it bad??? lol 😂 i mean to save a buck ?????😂

[@JoeRogansGutBiome]

24% tuition increase the next 3 years. 8% annual

[@PrecisionAcc]

Hey I know you mean well, but an 8% annual increase over a 3 year period is actually a ~26% overall; increase. Sounds like someone needs to go to college...

[@dmar191]

Someone who focuses on the minute details and misses the point apparently.

[@JoeRogansGutBiome]

@dmar191 its ok if you shop on temu and bought your degree there. You are shopping like a billionaire.

[@justayoutuber1906]

Typically 400% higher than inflation for over 20 years.

[@gwinbeer]

@@dmar191did you not check out his/her username

[@mattdecker6791]

Local California school district is hiring summer school teachers this week. Six week position, $165 per day, degree required. Tough work with students taking remedial classes. Who would want to do this?

[@MrWiseinheart]

Wow what a joke, I wonder why anybody even does it right now that's currently working?

[@fourlittlebirds6166]

Some are literally just there b/c the parents need a baby sitter. Doesn’t make it any easier for the teacher though when the students hate life in general.

[@mrbp3351]

the tuition fee increase for csus have been insanity. graduated csun in 09 and my goodness, classes were dirt cheap.

[@monteaustin1006]

Look at the “improvements “ across the CSUN campus and how much bigger it is. That is where some of the money goes.

[@KatTheo431]

A friend of mine is studying Computer Science at CSU Channel Islands. Many of her Computer Science classes have only 4-6 students. But there's a waiting list to take high school level algebra at Moorpark Community College. The problem isn't the number of students wanting to go to college, but the number actually capable of actually graduating with a decent degree in an area where it makes college worthwhile.

[@good-tn9sr]

Also Computer Science is heavily saturated. 3 grads for every job opening. It’s quite literally harder to get a job than getting into medical school…

[@JosephineLathung]

I noticed that people who graduated from 2006-2010, our teachers never mentioned trade school and pushed for 4 year colleges. I feel like some of folks who seemed like they would do well in universities may have been more successful in a trade.

[@fourlittlebirds6166]

For whatever reason Southern California has plushies college, college, college for forever. Never any mention of possibility of going into a trade school. I feel most kids don’t even know that they can until they move to another state which still values trade jobs.

[@gif24gt60]

Many colleges nationwide have seen dramatic drops. People have seriously been rethinking going to college and being offered minimum wage jobs or close to it.😢

[@itsdavidlo]

Schools need to stop offering useless degrees like lesbian dance theory.

[@ThatBBShopSound]

Hahaha Lesbian Dance Theory.

[@redrevyol]

They have queer, women, and gender studies in general education courses. I'm not even joking.

[@Miraclelnvoker]

Only rich people take that shit, often the out of touch type people

[@mq-r3apz291]

​​@@redrevyollike they force u to take i?t

[@redrevyol]

@@mq-r3apz291 Yep, they even sneak in at least 1-2 weeks of racial inclusion in my interpersonal communications course and gender theory in my psychology course.

[@chesterwilberforce9832]

I have 4 kids who all got degrees, none of whom work in their fields and none of whom are making living wages and are paying back ridiculous student loans. (I remember writing a check for my tuition that was less than 200 dollars many years ago). They are angry at us for insisting that a degree was needed to get a good job. Add to that the prohibitive cost of tuition and I'm surprised colleges can get anyone to enroll.

[@ruthchada6102]

I was so angry. I still kind of am. It turns out that in my state of mississippi, you have to move away to use your degree unless it is in nursing. No one told me that. I didn't figure out what was happening to me until 2 years after graduating with my accounting degree and being trapped in low-end jobs. If someone had been upfront with me, it would have changed my life. But deep in ourselves, I am sure most young people know that the older generation was only trying to help. Other parties are to blame. My poor parents didn't know how to help me. Even my college educated grandfather was shocked at what has happened to me.

[@markdc1145]

My school has created countless new admin positions for all kinds of nonsense required by State of California. Tuition keeps going up 10% a semester with a result of fewer students and faculty pay has been stagnant for over a decade. That’s the reality.

[@slimerone]

Gotta fund those dei programs to bring racism back into academics

[@1bambiefawn]

Back in the mid 1980s a college professor from Cal State Hayward didn't recommend going to college. Cal State Hayward is now called California State University East Bay.

[@AN-jw2oe]

A man ahead of his time!

[@stargazer5073]

People can't afford college debt.

[@mumble1836]

I would go to college if I could AFFORD it. trying to balance a full time job, pay rent, be a full time student…. none of that is possible without taking out ridiculous loans.

[@safeandeffectivelol]

Go to a community college and learn a trade. Network with people in the industry you choose.

[@lambertlum1087]

In general, college is an inter-generational endeavor. Parents generate the income that create the opportunity for their children to attend college. If you are not able to pursue a university degree in your own lifetime, you will have to raise children to do that which you could not do. I like the response of one Indian parent to their kids, "Your choice of major is medicine or engineering"

[@mumble1836]

@@safeandeffectivelol that’s not the answer for me, Im an artist, and I want to study art or something meaningful I have done carpentry I do not want to do that for a career. I have sought out community college but the issues are deeper than that, I have looked for help from counseling and get no response. our school system is lacking in funding and resources.

[@mumble1836]

@@lambertlum1087 that’s an irresponsible answer-it basically encourages having children to pursue your dreams for you. on top of that it doesn’t answer the issue of affordability. why have children to send to college when you still cannot afford to send them to college. -having a child means another mouth to feed, housing is already unaffordable, groceries are expensive, then there’s gas water and electric-18 years of expenses before that kid can go to school. -in addition I am a queer child of 4, I am also the youngest and none of my siblings have children as they cannot support a child and dont want to bring a child into a world that isn’t kind or inclusive; that doesn’t have the necessary foundation for sustainability. forcing your lost dreams onto a child who didnt ask to be born or to pursue whatever field you push them into is a recipe for disaster. the point is education should be largely free and accessible and much like water, housing, food etc.. it should be a human right. unfortunately our government uses our tax money to fund the military and militarization of our police so they can fight proxy wars, perpetuate genocide, and suppress the citizens who speak up against their crimes against humanity. we need to think and act bigger than whatever fruitless thoughts you’re echoing.

[@mikeydude750]

@@mumble1836 You can always do art after your day job. Face it, art is and always HAS been privy of the idle rich or people who are good enough to have a wealthy benefactor bankroll them.

[@John_Q]

Greed kills. Colleges only care about profit, not the students. Unless you're majoring in something lucrative, it's a complete waste of time and money.

[@TommyMac]

Most colleges are non-profit.

[@John_Q]

@@TommyMac Most "non-profits" are complete BS. Administrators are getting rich through them from inflated and unjustified salaries. That's how they profit.

[@John_Q]

@@TommyMac Funny how "Non-profits" still manage to pay a lot of administrators overinflated and unjustified salaries. That's how they profit.

[@John_Q]

@@TommyMac Overpaid administrators are where the profit goes.

[@TommyMac]

@@John_Q Salary for paid workers isn't profit, though. So, I think what you meant to say was "Colleges are only about funneling money to administer salaries".

[@jadedixon3641]

Back in 2005 when I graduated from CSUH, my economics professors were saying that admin would pressure the faculty to come up with ways to encourage students to stick around for the 4 year degree. The econ professors said that if students were just going to work jobs that didn't require a degree then maybe they were better off dropping out and putting that time spent in college toward earning seniority in the workplace.

[@AsaTrenchard1865]

Seniority means nothing in a non-union workplace.

[@jadedixon3641]

@asatrenchard3529 A lot of the students were getting jobs in unionized workplaces. Back then it wasn't such a bad idea.

[@trinity6180]

It is about time people wake up. Even some of the trade schools are not necessary if you can get an apprenticeship or on the job training. Young people and employers need a clear understanding of what fields actually should require college, trade school or on the job training. Trust me I used to work in a University’s budget office. It was well known that college is not job training.

[@h1r1]

colleges should all have income share agreements where you only start paying your tuition once you get a certain income in the field of your degree. this way the colleges put more effort into the programs they're running and effort ensuring their students are prepared for the job market.

[@thomaskim5008]

For the school to prepare the students for the job market, the school has to raise the standard which means more than the half of students will get the failing grades.

[@safeandeffectivelol]

@@thomaskim5008 Which tells you they're mostly diploma mills

[@thomaskim5008]

@@safeandeffectivelol Yes, schools have to low the standards to graduate enough students who do not develop the skills they need for the jobs. Otherwise, the politicians would not fund the education.

[@bauerjanet7887]

@@thomaskim5008 It used to be that only the highest IQ students and those willing to work hard in high school went to college. The rest went into trades or factory jobs. Now all those factory jobs have been sent overseas where corporations can pay less and not pay for health care and pensions. College has become a racket dooming young people to a lifetime of paying off high loans and never being able to afford a home and family.

[@thomaskim5008]

@@bauerjanet7887 I do agree but if we follow your argument, only the top 1/3 of the high school graduates should attend college. Closing 2/3 of all universities? Also, the community college offers courses that lead to those jobs you are talking about. So, the community college is not the problem. The problem is students who don’t belong in college.

[@Jimmyxsx]

Thats why I instead learned a trade and started making money right away. My friends who went to university are still paying their student loans and their job doesnt even pay good.

[@crishnaholmes7730]

Which trade

[@Jimmyxsx]

@@crishnaholmes7730 electrician

[@MrLOLSager]

They make university extremely expensive and then wonder why people don’t go anymore. Did these people ever take any of their economics classes about price elasticity😂

[@DerekVuong7799]

Please they can't even teach that subject

[@S1000rrboy]

Raising tuiton rates while there are no jobs on the market. Students were promised jobs when they leave college, yet they are left with a mountain of debt, working at In-n-Out, while desperately trying to find entry level jobs that no longer exist in STEM, due to outsourcing in other countries for quarter of the price and the rise of AI. Biden forgave a couple thousand students debt, how does that solve anything? These college institutions keep raising the price of tuition, and the private banks that give out loans keep raising their own interest rates. They are literally suffocating the middle class, and people are too blind to see what is happening in front of them. College is a scam nowadays, better off to go to trade schools and earn entry level skills. Student loan forgiveness is like slapping a bandaid on someone with stage 3 cancer. I'm sorry but look at the current state of your ghost town cities with abandoned local businesses, homeless tent cities, district attorneys that bail out criminals the next day, three new wars we cant afford, 5000 applications per job listing, and you tell me if your current administration is working for you. Oh but hey SPY is at an all time high.

[@katieadams5860]

And the only reason why trades pay well is because they still have good unionization rates

[@thomaskim5008]

There are jobs in STEM. Just US students cannot compete with students from other countries

[@migi9311]

@@thomaskim5008these jobs are now be outsourced to foreigners that can do the work and be paid less.

[@thomaskim5008]

@@migi9311 The outsourcing of jobs has been going on for many decades. The companies prefer US employees but they cannot find them because they are poorly educated. If the outsourcing is a recent thing, how do you explain Union City and Fremont and Hayward and Tracy dominated by Asian tech workers? The problem is not the companies who are outsourcing the jobs. The problem is the students who do not want to study hard and expect to get a high paying job.

[@stephaniecorelli3034]

The American dream is a scam for most as well

[@5877user]

College degrees have always been a means of getting your foot in the door. My son chose not to go to college and he made very good money as an it tech for years. But he’s been laid off like so many other it techs. And without a degree, at 52, he’s finding it difficult to find a job.

[@ppen8359]

You mention an important point that people seem to ignore. It is easy to say college is worthless when you are young, but all those trade professions have short self lives. At a later age, people realize that they should have gone to college for long career.

[@AsaTrenchard1865]

The jobs are not where we were taught to look for them anymore 😐

[@thehunterkirsch]

I have a bachelors degreee and it was a huge waste of money it absolutely does nothing to help.

[@charlita25]

Same 😫

[@lilac624]

What's your degree?

[@thehunterkirsch]

@@lilac624 criminal justice and it has not done anything for me within corrections and judiciary applications.

[@ub281-pk5rz]

Have you applied to the police academy??? Something better than nothing. !!!!!!@@thehunterkirsch

[@BenMonares]

@user-nw8zm2wu6oisn’t that a job to be a lawyer?

[@god563616]

I'M a Millinieal and alot of my friends who graduated and did everything right by finishing college and snagging a good job with great pay and benefits in the mid 2000's were laid off at those same good jobs during the pandemic and are still trying to recover from it. This economy is not good for anyone all across the board. 😞

[@PeterSramka]

It is good for some people, including me.

[@0IIIIII]

It is worse if you don’t have a degree

[@Notme-tq4xs]

@@0IIIIII plumber with no degree makes more than you.

[@HenryThe12]

People will soon learn that real work will always last. Blue collar will never die.

[@0IIIIII]

@@Notme-tq4xs how long does it take for plumbers to earn $70/hr because that’s what I do now as QA for biotech at age 28 with a BS and AS from 2020 and 2019 respectively

[@casienwhey]

If you want to dramatically decrease the cost of college, end all loans and subsidies. When you subsidize colleges, they can increase tuition as much as they want because someone other than the students is paying the initial bill. If colleges could only charge what students were willing to pay out of their own pocket, the costs would be slashed very quickly or the colleges would have no students.

[@Bear-kb4kt]

4 years Lots of stress Get into debt Cant or hard to balance it with work

[@ThatDiabeticChemist]

I’m in my first year at UCI as a transfer from a local California CC. I’m earning a bachelors in chemistry and my teaching certificate at the same time. Fortunately for me, all of my classes are relevant to my major because I got all of my general Ed course work done at community college over three years. I personally paid nothing due to aid and scholarships I earned. It blows my mind that most of the students in all my classes have a similar (and often worse) learning experience then me and they’ve paid TENS OF THOUSANDS more, or have it all as debt. I can’t wait for the irony of teaching in a high school classroom that should be “preparing students for higher education” and instead spending a significant amount of time talking about the alternatives to a 4-year degree (2 year programs, trade school, apprenticeships, etc)

[@franku5099]

Students pay 10s of thousands per year for mediocre housing and dining hall food. Not enough housing in general and don’t forget the outrageous parking fees.

[@jimfesta8981]

It's ridiculous what they're charging in tuition today. In 1970 you could attend California State University at Los Angeles for $56.00 a quarter. That's for the entire quarter. Community college for $20.00 a semester. Again, the entire semester. Even if you factor in inflation, it still was much cheaper than today.

[@bayoak]

CC is 20k per semester where you live? In the bay area many CCs are now tuition free.

[@jimfesta8981]

That's 20 dollars. @@bayoak

[@nofurtherwest3474]

College is good for certain jobs like engineering, doctor, etc. But if major in some of the liberal arts stuff, it’s not a very practical way to spend 4 years. You can make good money in certain trades or 2 yr programs, for ex plumbing, electrical, respiratory therapy

[@BenMonares]

What about business?

[@nofurtherwest3474]

@@BenMonares business is very broad. It can be fine, it just depends on what you want to do. But usually people specialize in something - accounting, marketing, finance, human resources, etc. If you do economics then you will have to get a graduate degree to compete in the job market. Try to look at some other things that you might find interesting.

[@Josh-ns2vs]

It's almost like the younger generation realized that "education" being used as a vehicle for debt doesn't do them any good.

[@jaylenprince4870]

Ive noticed that its only old people that are covering this stuff. And it's simply because they are shocked and worried about the younger generation. Imagine a time where you start a family and could afford a house and a car by age 28? This is basically now unattainable

[@povang]

College is a gamble. As someone working manual labor with a high school diploma, I know far too many coworkers that have college degrees working alongside me.

[@Harry-q2q6y]

One of the first college graduates that I ever met (BA in Sociology) worked at the Jack In The Box with me, doing the same menial labor.

[@ZenionPlay]

One thing I learned after getting my bachelors degree in programming is that that paper is ok to use in the toilet if you run out of regular paper. Wasted time and wasted money.

[@joet4811]

Sounds about right. Say, are there still tech layoffs in the US? I'm from Australia.

[@ZenionPlay]

@@joet4811 with information that I have yes but we must understand that IT areas are different. If we talking about web then yes if we talking about mechanical engineering software then no. If you skilled in something that brings more money than your time there, well there could be some place unfortunately there are rear openings and most of the time are not aloud people from other countries to participate.

[@joet4811]

@@ZenionPlay ah good to hear that hard STEM is still going well as it should be. Is programming considered hard STEM though? I remember before and during COVID, people were hailing coding as a job with good prospects and they were even telling us to code if we wanted to steer clear of automation but it seems AI is catching up fast. Also, there seems to be a glut of programmers.

[@xanderkay315]

How does this compare to enrollment figures in the UC system? Could it possibly be more students are opting to apply and enroll in a UC school since they're the higher-tier university system in California?

[@dagduesund5175]

Don't know about the UC system but what I do know is that CSU Fullerton and CSU Long Beach student numbers are up. Interesting to note that overall CSU's were down about 6.5% but the Bay Area schools were down 34%, 24%, 20%. Maybe there is a problem with those schools? (BTW, at least for engineering students from Fullerton, who, 5 years post graduation on average, earn exactly the same as engineering students from UCI and far less than students from San Luis Obispo, maybe it is school specific???)

[@gaditproductions]

yes maybe.but I assume they will have similar problems in few years.

[@jitlv]

I got my Master's Degree in Logistics Management from a for-profit university for a total cost of $15k. Landed a job for an Aerospace company in San Diego, CA for $150k a year + bonus. However, I had 13 years of experience in my field before I received my Master's. I suggest to kids who are in college to intern and work when they can while in college, even if it's part-time ---work that is related to your major so by the time you graduate you can at least command a decent wage---most importantly work on networking and your interpersonal skills.

[@abolisher]

Your advice is outdated

[@jitlv]

That's just the basics, and there's no reason to re-invent the wheel. Fortunately for the new gens, this is a simple approach---yet they fail to realize that.@@abolisher

[@jordijimenez2634]

@@abolisherand yet the networking part still holds to this day assuming your degree is in STEM, Medicine or finance

[@hieu737]

Only go to college if the job requires you to. Otherwise just get training certificates or experience instead.

[@ZombieGribble-gd9ju]

70% of businesses turn down prospective employees for not having a degree, even if they have skills/experience. They then hire someone else with a degree and less experience/skills. It's gatekeeping. If you want a white collar job, you can't just not get a degree and expect everything to be fine, especially when the majority of employers will use that as an excuse to pay you less than your peers.

[@hifijohn]

Went back in the 80's and it was the best time of my life, that was then this is now.

[@striker44]

AI will offset and eliminate millions of jobs in the coming years. DEI is also eliminating many from college admissions. Academic excellence is out of the door.

[@Jester2415]

All while Biden is letting millions and millions cross the southern border. Death from above and death from below. A match lit from both ends--ready to destroy the middle class.

[@justinchristoph3725]

People are finding out that a college degree doesn't mean you are guaranteed to get a job that can pay off the ginormous school loans to get a degree. It isn't a good bet anymore. Most people I know are going the community college route.

[@foodbeforepills8749]

Unless you getting a stem degree, it's not worth the 200k for a college degree. Most sw developer and accounting jobs will be eliminated within 5 yrs by AI.

[@nateb9768]

Go to community college and transfer, simple as that.

[@datusllc1556]

Accounting can't be eliminated because you need someone who understands the tax code and can correct crappy tax software entries. I'm in software development now, and it's not going anywhere soon. AI can't write coherent/robust code yet. The ones who should be worried are writers, assembly workers, cashiers, and fast food folks.

[@kittyearsheadbands8810]

Rent is expensive in the bay how can students afford tuition and living expenses

[@laidoffjournalist]

At this point, college is a four-year vacation for young women to run-up their body-counts. Men are refusing to go into debt just for a worthless piece of paper.

[@ronswansonsdog2833]

yikes.

[@Kitkat613]

That means Berkeley and Davis. Gee, I wonder why?

[@orangemoonglows2692]

csu, not uc.

[@BenMonares]

@@orangemoonglows2692true and I don’t think UC schools have a problem except Merced, maybe Santa Cruz, maybe Riverside and Santa Barbara

[@ipressedabutton]

after i Learned that Learning was for FREE. I quit school.

[@nsu2112]

What did you learn after learning that learning was free? Grammar? *After *I *learned *learning *free,

[@drx3373]

Learning is not free. Free resources on the internet doesn’t meaning you’re learning well You need vetted, experienced professors, who have leading expertise in their subjects. With that you have no idea how to filter what’s available online or integrate it properly

[@ipressedabutton]

@@nsu2112 i learned it then i got learnt (learned) .

[@ipressedabutton]

@@drx3373 not is a word. so is learning. learn not. everything is a word. say it. i know everything theres nothing to learn,

[@ipressedabutton]

@@drx3373 if you are smarter than me, you get better results, i cant hold you back from that.

[@Userhfdryjjgddf]

Never went to college or even finished high school. Running a very succesful business now. Work 20 hours a week and have money left over every month to invest. No car loams, no student loans, no credit cards to pay off. Pay Cash as go and extremely happy in life.

[@JayTse-x7l]

A degree doesn’t mean you are capable. I once interviewed a graduate architect. She came late, dress a little different, with half of her fingernail polish chipped off. You think she got hired?

[@AlbatrossWhisper]

Tf kind of boss gives af about chipped nail polish. Maybe she can’t afford to get it done.

[@TIm_Bugge]

When you begin high school, go out and interview 5 or 6 companies who employ people who do the kind of work that interests you. Do it again as a sophomore, then again as a junior. By the time you are a Senior you'll be fairly confident about what you are interested in doing, and how to pursue it after graduation. Just call them and ask for a 15 or 20 minute meeting. Trust me, most will be VERY happy to help a young person who shows initiative. Ask them if a university degree is strictly necessary to work for them, you'll be surprised by their answers. Some may even encourage you to start with them, and then after some time they'll pay you to get a degree or other relevant training. Be suspicious of your high school guidance counselor. And, for that matter, be suspicious of universities as well. They're getting pretty cultish.

[@endlessbubblebath]

This is good advice. I wished I had my head on straight in hs to do these kinds of things I was a scared little shit but I’m still young and I’ll start being audacious not afraid to look stupid or to be under qualified but I know I need to learn to challenge myself like this!

[@agent9809]

Most universities and colleges will end up going bankrupt - will no longer exist !! All because they have been lying to the public. Rest in peace, colleges, and universities

[@windsongmoonchild6400]

Certifications, licenses and work experience are what employers look for in today's job market.

[@lisaj8843]

Every letter I get from the CSU campus my daughter attends, only mentions discrimination, counseling for any weather event or mass murder across the world, and encouraging social justice. Their only concern is reenforcing victimhood mentality.

[@jerrybarbo7952]

I graduated from Cal State Hayward in 1976 with an accounting degree. I got a job immediately and never looked back. I retired at 60 with a great pension and a well-funded IRA account.

[@esau93631]

ok boomer

[@TheMadmatt7]

I'm a heterosexual Christian Caucasian male and I'm not paying 100k to be forced to attend classes that tell me what a horrible person I am. If I want that kind of abuse, I can just watch a Disney movie and save a ton of money.

[@Andy-xx3tt]

You wanna know something crazy? Christian universities exist and even secular universities offer plenty of programs that have nothing to do with “wokeness”. You get to pick your classes! 😱

[@HanginInSF]

😂😂😂 my man!

[@Lpm100]

But the bitching part about it is that is white people telling each other how terrible they are.

[@VisionClearly]

God bless you!

[@justinboyd8383]

Victim complex lol. Just face it, white supremacy is pervasive in the US still. If you feel bad about it, it's because you're either racist or are benefiting from systemic racism.

[@aggedyran]

Even people who want to go to college can't imagine how they would live and survive in California...unless you plan to live in your car and eat from the food bank - it's not doable for an average person.

[@JRald2016]

As much as we would love to attend college and get a higher education, we can barely afford to live with full-time jobs. It is possible to do both, but how long can one last with all the stress and financial worries.

[@travelingdude1621]

I got three worthless degrees. There’s no point in going to college or graduate school anymore unless the job you want requires it.

[@BenMonares]

Even if you go to UC school?

[@sxystar41]

For those that work full time jobs, I recommend hybrid or online classes for your GE. It gives you fhe flexibility to not have to go on campus. As long as you meet rhe assigneed deadlines your good.

[@sheenathecounselor675]

I have friends who are nurses. Some have Bachelors degrees and sone have Associates degrees, but they all tell me they basically make the same amount of money. If make same amount of money, it makes sense to do Associates only since only 2 years and cheaper than 4 year Bachelor’s degree. Your workplace might eventually pay you to get higher education then. My one friend has an Associates degree in nursing and works in a hospital. The hospital is now paying for her to get higher education.

[@dr.nigelcool3771]

College has become a pageant. They'll admit any warm body and graduate almost anyone who bothers to show up for class. Most degrees, therefore, are almost worthless. College is now for the administrators. At some point their game will be up; perhaps that time is soon.

[@randommemebean686]

I did 4 years in the Marines. I am now using the GI bill to get my AS in Instrumentation. Why would I need to get a 4-year degree?

[@robertmontgomery7158]

My trans aware degree has not resulted in any job offers. Why?

[@jdog22c34]

In Information Technology, you can learn everything you need to know from online resources. No need for college.

[@okee63]

It’s too expensive and they want to ‘re-educate’

[@chunhaylee]

It's not re-education, if you were never educated to begin with.

[@guezcisco]

Nobody wants to go to California it's one big dump.

[@user-qb8qm4mp5n]

I know someone whose parents dropped over $360,000 for their kid's education and a couple years after graduation he's working at Target. Don't know the details but my point is going to college and an expensive college prep school does not guarantee a good-paying job or financial success in our society.

[@TubersAndPotatoes]

Maybe reveal how much money people who go to trade school can earn, compared to a college degree (STEM vs non-STEM)

[@SuperModelFlaze]

I got a BS in Business Management in 2022 and landed my first degree related job at a Tech company after 6 months Only to then get laid off after 3 months and I have been questioning the purpose of going to CSU university I gave up 4 years of my life for this degree yet I don't see the purpose of obtaining it if it was going to be truly difficult finding a full time degree related job. 20-30 jobs of applying every single day, rounds of interviews, tons of rejection emails every week. Somehow I no longer see myself being successful in Business, I keep seeing it anywhere else Debt doesn't wait for anyone.

[@abolisher]

They played you like a sucker got you trapped with all this debt only to find a job that gave you 3 months to work for them that sucks.

[@leochen887]

So my sons are college grads who graduated with honors; pbk key, magna cum laude, accepted at Harvard's and Stanford's B Schools, etc. They also became millionaires. Here's how they did it. They decided early on that if they thought that they were so damn smart, that they should strive to become employers instead of employees. They had a product idea that radically reduced the cost of applying to colleges and universities. Crucially, they also didn't get married but instead they worked 24/7 on their concept and brought it to market. Then a billionaire venture capitalist purchased their company, making them multimillionaires. The whole thing took them 5 years of effort. After that they married whoever they wanted, started families, etc.

[@philipiano001]

Does the higher price bring a better product?

[@joannleichliter4308]

No, it does not.

[@ppen8359]

It depends on you. When I went to college, I learned things I wanted to learn and did well. You get time in college, and part of your success comes from how you use that time.

[@MsKanay]

The best way to live life is to not care

[@esau93631]

hell yeah

[@michaelcrossley4716]

Tuition at Cal State is cheap, but the cost of living in the Bay Area is way too much. I'm not surprised. I went to East Bay but there's no way I could manage to pay the rent on my college income these days.

[@user-hp1gn5mg7c]

College degree is worthless unless it is in the right major. Unfortunately, most graduate go just to get a piece of paper, not concentrating in the major needed to make money. On top of that, there are costs which often result in loans/debts. What can go wrong?

[@Mike__B]

100% nothing wrong or "dirty" with learning a trade that doesn't require you to go to school. Now it can be hard to find work if there are too many of a particular trade in a given region, and trade unions unfortunately try to prevent that, but if you like working on cars, if you have a knack for woodwork, or something else, then yeah forget spending money on college, if anything take a class at a community college that teaches you how to run a business if you want to have your own business doing that work instead of working for someone else.

[@keith.vukasinovich]

We aren't talking enough about online for-profit colleges passing out useless degrees. They advertise themselves are more convenient options never mentioning that they target their advertisement toward low income communities whom they know will qualify for loans.

[@tx189]

Who wants to rack up 200k before you get a job .

[@thomaskim5008]

Surgeons and physicians

[@gaditproductions]

@@thomaskim5008 more like 600k...but then these students go to private schools. Also these are exceptions. Same can be said for law and dental students.

[@thomaskim5008]

@@gaditproductions Depends on schools you go to. Public medical schools cost about the half.

[@gaditproductions]

@@thomaskim5008 I meant private undergrads. but yes, in total its prob like 400-600k...some med schools are actually free! so thats good.

[@thomaskim5008]

@@gaditproductions Like any products, some people will pay a lot of money to buy a big SUV with full options. Some people buy a sedan with only minimum options.

[@dougmcfee8351]

More and more of these indoctrination centers will be going out of business as there is nothing to be gained by going somewhere that provides nothing in return

[@georgesheffield1580]

The local universities here in N Texas are growing ,especially in grad school , multiple degree programs , continued education / upgraded their degrees .