Callaway Epic Flash VS Rogue

[@TC-ps9sd]

Love how Ian resists drawing too many conclusions about Flash from one test with one player. It's why I sit up and listen when he sums up the strengths of a driver after fittings with many players.

[@davidwilson1107]

Thanks for saying that Ian. It needed to be said. Driver ball speeds have been maxed out for years to fall within the regs and be conforming. These OEMs need to stop insulting our intelligence by making bogus claims year after year. You guys rock!

[@stephenhannah6510]

Great Video guys, in particular love the comments “312 in the air is....good” 😮 , “3 to 5 miles an hour faster..,for who, give us a break” 😊..

[@CraigalFun]

Agreed

[@JoshStephens24]

Great as always.......not sure if you’ve covered it, but for those like me who live multiple hour drive away from any decent launch monitor, I’d love to see a video with examples of how to notice what too low/ too high spin looks like on the course, same with launch. It would help give us a better understanding of maybe what adjustments need made. TXG however as already taught me so much more than I thought I knew, regarding the data. Thanks again!

[@madeinkorea7]

TXG is the gamechanger! for the average amateur golfer it was/is impossible to get unbiased and honest information on golf equipment. can't wait for the PGA Show and the following content this season. keep it up guys:) still wished you were located in Europe though hahaha

[@CosmicApe]

Glad to see Matt hooking the Epic Flash, that's the exact experience I had with this driver... I normally am a solid driver off the ball and I have never hooked a club consistently as much as I did with the Epic Flash driver...

[@jameslovering9158]

Be cool to see a speed/distance wall of fame with the 10 best of all years.

[@Andy_4470]

I love these videos, they're absolutely superb! I love how you explain with great clarity a subject which for most (me included) is a very complicated subject, keep 'em coming!

[@tylerboer2960]

The spin number difference is the main reason why they’re two different driver lines! At about the 10min 15 second marks you talk about the spin numbers. The Epic and Rogues are different lines! Rogue is higher spin for to prevent more curve for someone that hooks or slices the ball! The Epic line is built for maximum distance. You guys looked at the TS2 and TS3 as different drive lines! This is how you need to look at these two drivers too!

[@banditbaker1675]

Great H2H Guys, just watched it again to make sure I hadn't missed anything. It will be interesting to see if Epic Flash performs any better for Allan, but for Matt Flash Face didn't appear to be offering any improvements in Smash Factor. Epic Flash was also noticeably louder than Rogue and the underside of the face is still making Ian wince!

[@openminded1923]

I really love Ians "stop the bullshit, lets get scientific"-attitude! Really enjoy this channel!

[@myopenmind527]

I must admit I love the Rogue Subzero. Getting 270-315 on course in the middle of winter. Soft fairways so I’m very happy. (GPS Arccos data). Didn’t like to original epic or the TaylorMade driver (M4&M5). Im looking forward to the new Mizuno ST190 & 190G to see if they can offer something new. I suspect I’ll keep playing the Rogue Subzero because it’s the best feeling driver (wrt my swing) that I’ve had for years

[@ponce1521]

Diggin the product reviews!! Very thorough information!! Keep these coming please!

[@robpottergolf]

Fantastic video lads, as always. I've got a vlog series coming out soon that's been a 12 months project on drivers and fittings, so should be interesting on how my data stacks up being a slow swing speed. Keep it up gents, love it!

[@clubchampionmedia]

Good stuff Rob!

[@kevinfriesen5081]

Morning guys! Hope you have a great day. I know I will, I’m just starting your vid 😊👍🏻

[@chriselerick5674]

great stuff. i laughed at ian talking about the rep claims. “give us a break!” hahaha it would be interesting to see a shootout where you only use the player’s poor swings. not the worst of the worst, but the misses that we all need help with. compare dispersion and distance.

[@stephendibari7704]

You guys are the ultimate in club review. Technically proficient and enjoying to watch ! I have the Rouge SZ driver and SZ 3 & 5 metals. Interesting to see the Rouge is higher spinning. Have a long game fitting in 2 weeks, going to compare my Rouge SZ to a few different heads (standard Rouge, Epic Flash, maybe not Flash SZ, too low spinning) and see what’s best for me. Club head about 105-110 mph, ball speed about 150-155 mph.

[@christopherlafreniere7141]

The way the Epic's crown bulges from hosel to toe gives it that "upright" look.

[@kevinfriesen5081]

Awesome video! Loved the part about the sales pitch 😊👍🏻

[@paulkielwasser481]

One thing that has been mentioned on the Internet via Callaway, is that the flash is an extension, or the next driver in the Epic series. The rogue was more in the series of the XR driver.

[@mauricemoore6679]

love this driver I'm 77 use f2 recoil shaft i had cobra f 9 before i prefer the flash both really good

[@banditbaker1675]

Looking forward to this H2H comparison. With all the noise about "Flash Face", one of the things that has puzzled me in the reviews that I have seen so far is the Ball speed and Smash factor of the Epic Flash. I would have expected both numbers to be higher than they are. It would appear that this new groundbreaking face isn't doing much, or am I missing something?

[@bobj2447]

Good stuff boys, you could actually see Ian very seriously thinking, as your were working out advantages of the driver.

[@christopherlafreniere7141]

When you do head to head I would always prefer fitted to fitted. For me, it gives a better picture of improvement.

[@ESikora12]

Comparing Epic Flash to Rogue is like comparing original Epic to XR, isn’t it? I was told Rogue was not a replacement for Epic, which is why Epic was still normal price and stocked fully in stores alongside the Rogue. Rogue was a replacement for the XR lineup.

[@JJ-lm4pg]

ESikora12 exactly, that’s what you would compare it to.

[@harveycminusmansfiel]

Goes to show how important low spin is to driver distance

[@ReedServices]

Please test the new breed against the TS2/3, G400 and other "recent" performers. Thanks.

[@phiily7golf]

Matty, you need the Adila 65 2kxv shaft with that head. That set up was money for you. Food for thought.

[@jerrypetersen5739]

Great review, hope to see a average golfer using this test and the results. The Flash appears to be more forgiving and with the adjustability might work for some of us to better dial in our drivers. The low spin rate will pick up distance for a few of us.

[@clubchampionmedia]

video on that coming out tomorrow morning

[@stephendibari7704]

TXG Tour Experience Golf Ian, my driver club head speed is about 105-108 mph, ball speed about 145-155 mph. More factors like strike location and face to path contribute to whether or not I can play a low spin SZ model but would you suggest the Rouge SZ or standard Rouge? Going for a long game club fitting in early Feb. will be comparing my Rouge SZ to a few models

[@clubchampionmedia]

The SZ might be better if you need to spin reduction, but if the standard model gives you optimal spin the added forgiveness might be beneficial

[@stephendibari7704]

TXG Tour Experience Golf thanks ! Yeah I can use the extra forgiveness. I’ll see how my fitting goes at Club Champion next month.

[@davidmulholland3497]

Absolutely love your intricate and analytical reviews and comparisons,but I had a good laugh at Ian's answer to the rep it reminded me of Rab C Nesbit "give us break" ,the rep probably thought you were going to give him the Glasgow kiss 😀😀. Keep it up gents brilliant stuff

[@thomasveal3351]

Love the honesty!

[@shughalonly4724]

Thanks a lot for the great review...unbiased reviews these days have actually extinct...so big thumbs up... need your opinion regarding forgiveness ...which one is better for an average player specially regarding off center hits

[@clubchampionmedia]

Similar, flash has the sliding weight which can help with a toe or heel strike pattern though

[@shughalonly4724]

@@clubchampionmedia thanks Ian and Matt for the guidance ...means a lot 😁...and would you rate F9 higher in forgiveness ?..these three are the final contenders for me to go for a try and upgrade my SLDR

[@eddiereyes4861]

Great commentary... specially at the end.

[@banditbaker1675]

Phew, looks like I can keep my PING G400 MAX, MrsBandit will be pleased!!!!!

[@69mjar]

It's time to book a flight north of the border because you guys are head and shoulders above anything I can get down south as far as a good driver fitting goes. I just can't seem to find anything close to what you guys have to offer.

[@miked.7722]

I love the fact you refer the woods as woods rather than metals. Just like we call irons, irons not steels etc. Besides what would be next not woods but carbons, what it they started using plastic would we start calling woods plastics or graphites or metal carbon granites.

[@reneforgues4467]

Looking forward to see your review

[@notbyalex]

Thoughts on the Cobra F9 trying to up club head speed by moving weights around rather than just maximizing ball speed off the face? As always great video!

[@clubchampionmedia]

Should be testing F9 next week!

[@didosdbest]

Just got the Rogue... Looking forward to your review lads. 🧐😰

[@Coda1850]

I just bought a Rogue yesterday. Can't way to get it... shipped today.

[@11golfnut11]

Excellent... Now how about ranking the drivers by their max movement. I still wonder how many drivers actually move the flight with the drivers weight system.

[@HiredGoonage]

a little confusing as the Rogue vs Mavrik test you guys did had those drivers coming out almost identical

[@wallstreetoneil]

That seems like an insane difference in spin (2080 vs 2912) for the next gen club - although the 'computer' seems to have chosen a far more optimal distance spin range. Seems like a missed feature that Callaway's adjustable sleeve doesn't have a Flat setting like the Titleist or indirectly like the Taylormade. Might be the driver of the year given the adjustability - though I think the M6 looks like a big winner as well.

[@clubchampionmedia]

Important to note this was just one test and a handful of swings with each driver, the Epic Flash is definitely lower spin but wouldn't say it necessarily going to be 30% less for everyone

[@alexlundqvist5897]

Love your Channel. Wish you had a NYC location. When will you review the Cobra F9 Driver, Wood &Hybrid? And one length cobra irons would be interesting to see review on as well. Keep on keeping on.

[@jballoregon]

There is 3mph of ball speed gains (12:30 mark) in this test. Every year it seems to be 1-3mph in ball speeds gains. Throw this up against the XR and lets see if we've seen 5-8mph gains over the last 4 years. I understand spin is coming down, launch going up, side spin influencing dispersion more...But, we've been at the MOI driver cap for what 12-15 years now? Manufactures are inching "some" quantifiable gains every year.

[@clubchampionmedia]

I wouldn't make that conclusion based on this review - we only hit a handful of shots with each club and the swing delivery is always a variable in human testing. We prefer viewers to observe how a club performs over a longer period of time with more testing, and data from our customer fittings.

[@barrysmith7291]

Another great video guys 😁👍

[@jonathangraham1847]

You talk about the fact the face is presenting more toe up,are there any ways you could change that from a fitting standpoint?

[@muffin0079]

Don’t like the look of either callaway driver especially the new colour way and I have the Rogue. Prefer the look of taylormade drivers but my fitting last year the Rogue just performed for me. Probably been my best club this year. Like the look of the new PXG gen 2 woods though and coming in at a lower price might have to try

[@rpierret]

Would love to see the sub zero versions of each model compared.

[@rollandhawkins8311]

What you are not addressing is moi and dispersion and the Rogue outperformed Epic Flash even when you adjusted it. That is what made Ping G400 your most fitted driver of 2018. All the new drivers I have seen have went away from that and are back to chasing a few yards of extra distance except Cobra Speedback. It will be interesting to see Ping's new offering. A couple of yards more ain't worth a crap when more of them miss the fairway!

[@toneemarin8544]

great video , not just talk . you talk and you play , very entertaining . and i'm lefty so...

[@niknayak]

I have a question about the height of the face of the Flash vs the Rogue. Does the Flash have a deeper face in comparison to the Rogue?

[@greenadam21]

Guys, You mentioned in one of your videos that the Rogue head was very light relative to the other heads on the market. I believe you said in the 180s. I know the adapter design up to last year, used in the rogue, was very heavy. 10+ grams. The new adapter is lighter though i dont know how much. Can you comment on the head weight changes due to the " redistribution" of this mass. How heavy is the new head?

[@Your_Mailman_Grows_7121]

Is Matt's more positive AOA causing more dynamic loft? Therefore now creating more spin with the Rogue? I'm not quite sure how dynamic loft affects flight/spin etc. that's why I'm asking. Really like the idea of testing the newest version of a club vs its predecessor. Keep at it guys, your killing it!

[@clubchampionmedia]

Delivery numbers with both drivers were pretty similar, strike location may have varied a bit however. All things being equal more dynamic loft will lead to more launch/spin, although you can actually have a positive angle of attack and low dynamic loft due to shaft lean.

[@miriamdalglish255]

Is the epic flash a better driver for a lady? Currently got a rogue 11.5 deg set draw

[@mintlcorp1]

would you please please do a comparison between original epic sz and epic flash sz, many thanks!

[@bl_pga]

Isn’t the flash a replacement for the Epic 2017? I thought the Rogue was a separate line up.

[@richardhewett3338]

I just hit both of these yesterday and I hit the Rogue better. I am about a 15 hdcp.

[@JoppersGolf]

Epic vs epic flash? I have the epic sub and wondering if it would be worth the change?

[@chubbspetersonshand6496]

Such good content. I am like you, the reps need to talk about what is really happening! The flash face helps on poor strikes. Unfortunately speed STILL sells doesn't it?

[@clubchampionmedia]

Great username.

[@acemakerjay]

I have a 2014 Callaway Great Big Bertha with a new shaft in it that I got fitted for this past summer. I love the shaft and I was wondering if I could just buy an Epic Flash head and use it that way or should I try different shafts again?

[@clubchampionmedia]

It's possible the same shaft would work well Jay, but not guaranteed. Ideally you should go through the fitting process or at least try some options.

[@acemakerjay]

@@clubchampionmedia Appreciate the advice. Thank You.

[@notdamomma8884]

How would new Mavrik std compare to Rogue standard? I swing about 105mph and very straight.

[@parnopsiripornpak428]

Interesting info guys. Would love to see Allen hit the Epic Flash.

[@clubchampionmedia]

that video will be out tomorrow!

[@parnopsiripornpak428]

FANTASTIC!

[@mahsy59]

Another very informative video. Just wondering has the weight track in the Epic Flash changed at all from the original Epic? Does it extend further toe to heel or has the movable weight increased?

[@clubchampionmedia]

We're planning to compare the original Epic to the Flash in an upcoming video

[@jamescompo]

so why would the spin be cut so much? I thought that mainly the shaft profile controlled spin, not the head. I got fit for rouge sub and a tensei orange shaft due to my high spin. My current driver is a stock xr16 that spins around 3800, with the new driver I'm about 2200. ss 107 ballspeed 156, original distance about 275, new distance with rouge about 305. (note I'm at altitude 5300ft above sea level.

[@clubchampionmedia]

Driver clubhead design makes significantly more difference to spin profile than the shaft - check out this video we did: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJzRe5aJh9SMqNk

[@benpalmer9709]

Hi guys, Great content once again. Would it be worth comparing the flash with the original epic? Keep up the good work

[@clubchampionmedia]

Yup we'll likely do that at some point

[@FlyboyAF22]

Would be really interested to see the Sub Zero comparisons head-to-head! Callaway has a 50% trade-in bonus (above normal trade-in value) going on right now through 3/3/19....so opportunity to get a discount on the Flash. Could y'all put that video together when you get back from the PGA Show? : )

[@joe-q4s4q]

Great vid! Just heard the PXG drivers are $575 in U.S. That makes it a contender. I heard the XF version has 5900(Max) MOI with mid spin. Do you carry PXG woods?

[@clubchampionmedia]

Yes we do and will be reviewing their new line for sure

[@halltw08]

I’d be interested to know what the difference in vertical strike was between the two tests. It looked like the rouge had lower impact. Would that contribute to higher spin? If so roughly how many RPM?

[@clubchampionmedia]

Might have been slightly lower with the Rogue, if we were to estimate that would probably account for a few hundred rpm's in the averages here.

[@reneforgues4467]

Do you plan to do the same with m3 and m5 ? Value your analysis a lot and want to make sure the fitting made last fall is still optimal

[@clubchampionmedia]

100% we will

[@christiannielsen5815]

hey guys. If you move the weight/track around does that change the sweet spot? even if its a touch? Always great video thanks.

[@clubchampionmedia]

We'll be investigating that in a future video

[@ElvisPriscillaPresley]

Great stuff.

[@petercusanelli5663]

Have you guys hit the new pig xf? Would like to see how this how moi head compares to gmax

[@clubchampionmedia]

will be soon!

[@thorstenwitt7117]

Is there a change you will be reviewing the new PXG Driver gen2 soon?

[@clubchampionmedia]

We will be for sure

[@Boss302ATC]

So if i create a lot of spin on driver, which do I fit first, ball or club?

[@clubchampionmedia]

Depends on how much spin you need to reduce - ideally the club as the ball won't be likely to alter driver spin more than a few hundred rpm's at most

[@lynyrd583]

Gentlemen, I very much enjoy your videos and learn a great deal. However, I believe you (and many others) have Callaway's marketing incorrect. The Epic Flash is not a replacement for the Rogue, it is a replacement for the original Epic. similar to TaylorMade, they have two different parallel lines, Epic (M3/5) and Rogue (M4/M6) , the difference is that each is going to have a two year cycle (discounts notwithstanding) so that there is new product every other year for their top two lines so they don't necessarily take away from each other. People who purchased the first Epic are more likely to purchase this and Rogue buyers may wait a year. Epic and Rogue clearly mirror the TM offerings.I think you'll find this to be true and their plan at least through 2020. Thanks for the videos.

[@clubchampionmedia]

We'll compare it to the original Epic at some point as well, this video was just to compare the new Epic Flash to Rogue as they are the most recent product releases from Callaway and likely what people will be deciding between in fittings.

[@billryan8707]

It sounds like tin can worse than some pings It wins the horrible sound Award so far if you ping. You might like it (yuk)

[@davewalsh5907]

They sound VERY different to each other 😳

[@flipdawhip2573]

Epic vs Maverick? anyone know the difference

[@GRIFF22]

Whilst many will go for this driver, there's two noticeable drawbacks for me. The sound seems awful and both drivers seems to be lower MOI than the Rogue versions.

[@amp7816]

backswing looks so weird! Are you double jointed? Lol

[@ttmmfast]

The Flash looks like not on neutral setting. ??

[@pierreevrard8283]

Please a epic flash vs f9 speedback

[@jarosdav]

This is all great is you have a 110+ mph club head speed. What about the rest of us who swing the driver at 95mph? Is it worth spending $550.00 ?

[@clubchampionmedia]

we just came out with a video using an average speed player: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmmulWB_gKimnK8

[@Alloverthegolf]

#ilovecallawaygolf

[@zacharymilos392]

Does Flash sound that high pitched/metallic in person as it does from the audio in this video? If so... Yikes. To me, just not a very pleasant noise. That will absolutely suck to use with rock hard range balls, no?

[@clubchampionmedia]

Sound definitely seems high pitched, have heard other people report similar things. To be fair us hitting it indoors it may sound worse than it actually is.

[@jamocleasby7780]

Surely Matt's low efficiency while hitting a draw is cause for concern? He's leaving a lot on the table in terms of ballspeed?

[@keithfinley2939]

He hit a 348 yard draw with subzero, and 338 with Flash and you're worried about leaving yards on the table?!

[@briandavidson2684]

Ian will choose rogue over flash because it’s Blue...

[@acemakerjay]

Callaway offers Epic Flash to be customized with a few different colors.

[@marcusroth431]

I like how they use the extremely expensive TPT shaft in both heads as a “control” shaft 😂 Big flex

[@duffinjp]

The knowledge is apparent. Ian please recommend a brand agnostic fitter in Scotland. Don’t make me visit 🇨🇦

[@3rdgroove]

Do you have any comment on Mark Crossfield's latest hypothesis? _"Adjusting the sliding weight (toe-heel) in a driver head changes the position of the CG (toe-heel), which in turn changes the sweet spot on the face, which in turn leaves the bulge of the face in a suboptimal position to take advantage of the horizontal gear effect."_ His conclusion: 1. Changing the weight adjustment (toe-heel) makes the club less forgiving. 2. Since it is detrimental, why are club companies doing it? His conlcusion is, it must have no impact in reality and therefore it's just a marketing gimmick. kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXWpqaeeYpVmkMU My take: He certainly raises an interesting point about a potentially less effective bulge when the sliding weight is used. I would like to know your opinion on that. However, Crossfield contradicts himself a little bit: In his 2. conclusion he says it's a gimmick with no real effect on ball flight BUT then he [correctly] cites stats on Rory being significantly less accurate with the TM driver in 2017 and 2018 over the Nike driver in 2016, supporting his 1. conclusion. So what is it then Mr. Crossfield: real or a gimmick? Or is he in fact saying that TM gave Rory a longer driver at the expense for accuracy in order to boost sales??? I might add Rory also was significantly longer and leading the distance list for the past two years. Also there are other factors why he might be longer and less accurate in 17 and 18. Since the rib injury at the end of 2016 he didn't do any heavy weight lifting exercises. The rough might have been less penal so he was being more aggressive. Anyways he dropped in "SG off the tee" from 1st (1.230) to 3rd (0.930) to 7th (0.761). So I'm not entirely sure what to make of this and I'd love to hear your thoughts. Crossfield is certainly not afraid to stir the pot once again...

[@clubchampionmedia]

We've got a video planned to shed some light on this topic, stay tuned.

[@3rdgroove]

@@clubchampionmedia I love you guys!

[@TXchadTX]

I would hate that driver. All of those were over draws. I’ll take a spinny push over a flat hook all day. It’s too upright

[@Longbal30]

Why is his ballspeed so low for such a high swingspeed. His smash factor is aweful. I've seen him have much better smash with other heads. To me it seems the flash or Callaway in general lack ballspeed

[@j2martnz348]

Foresight smash factor registers lower than Trackman smash factor

[@Longbal30]

@@j2martnz348 how is that even possible, when smash factor is only relative to club speed vs ballspeed

[@j2martnz348]

@@Longbal30 GC Quad optimum smash is 1.45 ... Trackman is 1.5 ...

[@j2martnz348]

@@Longbal30 GC Quad takes pictures ... Trackman uses radar ... smash is measured differently

[@Longbal30]

J2 Martnz beg to differ. I own a gcquad, and have also been fitted on trackman. I can assure you 1.5 on a gcquad is completely doable.

[@craigwall775]

Hit my roque at 2,200rpm with 105mph club head speed

[@banditbaker1675]

32 likes before the vid starts, now that's class Guys!

[@steinfonell4915]

… like ManU players now actually playing footie instead of fooling around because they didn´t like Mou! Straight wins since change to Olé and climbing towards ChampionsLeague position... hahaha

[@hillbilly4333]

watch some us open youtube videos. protracer. lots of guys in the 2350-2650 range. world class numbers. at 300 yards plus meaning 9 vs 8 iron approach, the major winners will always take a 8 iron. spin = straighter ball flight. choky and under the gun, believe me, this guy will be begging for that extra 500 rpm instead of 18 yards longer.

[@briankinread2293]

Bottom line. Longer for Matt. Get fit for the correct driver / clubs. Never trust a "sales person", they might be exaggerating the truth

[@clubchampionmedia]

Yup!

[@tylerboer2960]

Rogue and Flash are 2 Separate lines! Stop treating them like they are the same, the Flash isn’t nearly as forgiving as the Rouge, the Flash built for a lot more better players.

[@clubchampionmedia]

How are we treating them like they are the same? It's a comparison of two models of driver from one company that people will be considering buying this season. There's neither positive or negative assessment here, we're just showing people the differences.

[@christ2906]

I’ll make this one easy for the viewers. Rogue standard is a lame driver. Spins too much goes Shorter than anything else I’ve had. I wish others would’ve been more honest about rogue standard. ......it stinks..lol

[@sicilylive2203]

Rogue all day and that flash sound is awful

[@christiansteensen7003]

Looking forward to see your review