Calling Out Fake Tolkien "Fans"

[@TheRaviotar]

"There is no place for hate in Fandom!" Except, of course, to hate the fans. They seem fine with that.

[@frocat5163]

Well, sure. Technically that isn't hate _in_ the Fandom; it's hate _for_ the Fandom.

[@NathanCassidy721]

There was no hate in the community except if one brings hate with them.

[@InfernosReaper]

​@@NathanCassidy721 there is hate in community and it's towards those pretenders trying to hijack the fandom for their own selfish aims

[@NathanCassidy721]

@@InfernosReaper If you read LOTR you know what line I am parodying.

[@InfernosReaper]

@@NathanCassidy721 I get ya, but I'm just throwing my 2 cents in anyway

[@HontounoShiramizu]

Always amazing how the same people who call appreaciating foreign cultures "appropriation" cheer actual appropriation of cultural works.

[@Sharok888]

It's about crushing white people not being even handed

[@morbidone88]

Yea, basically if I were to start playing banjo, that's cultural appropriation. Its psychotic, i looked up to so many black, white, latin, Asian and middle eastern men growing up.. As a young boy, you don't care about race until you're told to. This is so divisive and destroys young men and womens view of what it is to idolize a great man or woman

[@chance2413]

Because they are intentionally destroying your culture. The people running Hollywood, the bagel people, hate white Christians. They have for thousands of years.

[@TheRaviotar]

Dune tactics dude "When I am Weaker Than You, I ask you for Freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am Stronger than you, I take away your Freedom Because that is according to my principles"

[@nuckygulliver9607]

the upcoming Snow White movie is a good example of that insane hypocrisy

[@mrquasar2922]

I heard one of these "fans" saying " I can't wait to see gandalf as a child"...I cringed so hard my face became a black hole

[@DiggerPat]

I need a source on that. What's left of my sanity can't believe this is real.

[@RanMouri82]

@@DiggerPat It was one of those "superfans" panels posted to KZbin, though I'm not sure which country. It's just that person's ignorance of the lore, though, not what they'll actually do in the show.

[@tdegrddeehjgd]

I recoiled so much I travelled back in time.

[@DiggerPat]

@@RanMouri82 I'm not familiar with the format. Was this one of the people on the panel or a panel-goer during a Q&A session? Was the person corrected?

[@robertbeisert3315]

Surely no one said that. My brain hurts trying to comprehend the levels of wrong.

[@FrankenJhingx]

I had a ceramics teacher in college who was a REAL "Tolkien Scholar". It was the best class, only two students and we would just stand around doing our pottery stuff and he would tell us all about TLOTR, The Hobbit, and the Silmarillion. That dude knew everything! Not just the lore, but tons of stuff about the making of the movies, he even knew the guys name that made the original pottery for the movies, and had some of them in his house. It was so much fun.

[@jeroenceulemans3715]

Sounds like the best time ever! I envy you! If he has not done so yet, he could start podcasts and stuff and perhaps even join Drinker and folk. People who are passionate about anything are always such a pleasure to listen to.

[@lucasoheyze4597]

Wish I was in that class so I could tell him I had no interest in Tolkien so shut the fuck up about it.

[@danielgriff2659]

so did you learn any Ceramics skills?

[@FrankenJhingx]

@@danielgriff2659 I did. I made some pretty sweet coil pots, some awesome hugs, and tons of pinch pots. I even made Jedi Holocron that opens up. He was the best teacher. It was a summer class and we were his last class before he retired. My wife, who wasn't enrolled in the class, would come with me and he let her make all the stuff she wanted too. All the while he would talk about Lord of the Rings.

[@JeanPaulB]

But the important question is: did he tech you how to make TLOTR pottery?

[@ben_sisko2149]

The thing with Tolkien is that people have always tried to see allegories in his works. There are a few interviews in YT, from around the 1960s, where you can see the interviewers constantly trying to make him "confess" that this character represents this or that such event is an allegory of that... it's infuriating a tiresome. Like, how many times did he have to say EXPLICITLY that he hated allegories. It's insane.

[@DavidNefelimSlayer]

We are the sum of our experiences 'That which has been, is what shall be; and that which has been done is what shall be done; and there is nothing new under the sun.' אֵין כָּל חָדָשׁ תַּחַת הַשָּׁמֶשׁ

[@aldeng3608]

I always knew Ben Sisko was a man of culture.

[@thenewvoice8]

blessed are the prophets brother Benny

[@mcwolf1096]

I'm reminded of a scene in "Finding Forrester" where Connery's character rants about why he only wrote one book. I can't find the scene on YT, so I can only put the quote here: _"And when the critics started all this bullshit about what it was I was really trying to say, well, I decided then, one book was enough."_ If you've seen the movie, you'll know how angry he was even decades later. If you haven't seen the movie... what the f*ck are you still doing here? Go watch it! 😜

[@alverdeo965]

It's just like that south park episode.

[@RanMouri82]

Tolkien was a man who believed in God, went through the troubles of life, strove to be good, and developed a great talent for storytelling and languages. He was an immensely deeper thinker than any of these showrunners stuck in their shallow SJW mire.

[@calummacritchie7840]

Amen to that.

[@britasha1194]

"He was a secret atheist" LOL.

[@michelecastellotti9172]

Troubles of life? Thats putting it mildly, the guy fought his ass off during ww1 in the trenches of the somme, most parts in his story are based off of those horrors he saw. Dead marshes? Holes left by mirtars filled by rain water in which the mutilated corpses floated. The fact these so called "fans" have no idea of this massive detail makes me ABSOLUTELY LIVID

[@Jesusluvz]

He never believed in god lmfao. He was an atheist in secret. He outwardly portrayed a belief in god because that’s just what you did in those times. Nobody who believes in fairytales and flying space ghosts are deep thinkers and couldn’t possibly create a masterpiece like LOTR. It literally goes against the bibles bs. 😂

[@jimjamauto]

@@Jesusluvz Reddit moment

[@ibtgb2]

“We’re the real Tolkien fans, that’s why we want to distort, warp, destroy, and bastardize Tolkien’s work, because how much we love the original content…”

[@specialk8888]

Tolkein was a devoted Catholic so when people try to say, Tolkein made Frodo and Sam to be gay or whatever, are reaaaaaaaaaally missing the point. Lord Of The Rings was made to entertain people and help them escape the mundane modern world, not to be a political or social agenda pushing manifesto. It's fantasy, not a friggin pedestal for your stupid social agendas.

[@spiderknight9893]

These people have never had a real friend. Everything is sexual to them.

[@josephw.1463]

@Special K A good heroic tale can also inspire people to take a more heroic approach to life themselves. Which is the opposite of the submission and humiliation these would-be cadre officers want to induce.

[@steveouk90126]

There was a time, ages ago it seems, when men and boys _could just be friends._

[@TheRaviotar]

Yep, male friendship (particularly in trying circumstances) is an alien thing to these people

[@T1tusCr0w]

About the only think we really know Tolkien would have upheld is ecology and preservation of the natural world.

[@duffthimblespork]

Regarding the attempts to recontextualize Sam and Frodo's friendship, it's really sinister what LGBT activists are doing. Keep in mind the books were written by a war veteran. That they can only understand the kind of relationship where two male friends frequently depend on each other for their literal lives in terms of homosexual romance is actually sad and a sure sign of a stunted mind. Or even worse, they understand the difference but don't care because they believe self-representation is more important.

[@Mattsta2010]

Sam and Frodo's friendship was based from his wartime friendships, especially his bat man (officer's servant) who was a loyal countryside chap and knew more about getting things done than he did.

[@DaDitka]

That is a good point you raise. If these rainbow jihadists can only look at a friendship like Frodo and Sam from a purely physical and homosexual standpoint, they are truly shallow and lacking people. They have zero ability to even think that two or more people of the same sex can simply be friend or companions, rather than lovers. It really is sad.

[@KurtAngle89]

Tolkien modeled Sam after an attendant who saved his life on the trenches, so yes, that was the point

[@tylerriddle7748]

I never saw it that I have a friend from highschool who's like my brother been friends for 12 years maybe more now and we hangout so much our girlfriends pick on us and sometimes get a bit jealous cus we're always hanging out or texting each other random memes why are so close well we partied alot had three day coke benders got clean together popped pills got clean together drank like fishes and been in very sketchy situations together and the one person who was always there always willing to help was him when I found out my ex had our child and never told me till the next day he was there while I cried like a fucking baby we're not lovers just share a bond from all the shit we've been through and I know he's one of the few ppl in my life who's always there it's called friendship I love him like he's my own blood like family and that's what Sam and frodo became not all love is sexual it can be platonic too and ppl now days do not believe in platonic love they meet a girl for instance and love her dearly like a friend but they confuse for a sexual mating type of love and when that doesn't happen they mad insecure and depressed till they realize oh I'm not in love with her I just love her because we connect as friends this is a dudes point of view but I imagine women do this too it's because we are taught that we can't live the someone without it being romantic and that's just not true one of the best quotes I can think of is from Jay and silent bob heterosexual lifemate meaning we are connected at the soul we truly understand one another and also understand that it's not romantic it's just a strong bond of endless friendship soul mates but non romantic yes that can exist it's ok to admit be comfortable in ur sexuality and live life by loving ppl and trying to be happy in this short life

[@Darkloid21]

You do realize that there were lovers bonds forged through battle in the past right? Greece had an entire army of male lovers. If the Catholic church hadn't stepped in an demonized it for no reason you'd likely see the same thing happening in the army today. I mean how far are you guys gonna use the "good friends" line? We don't see the same defense when it comes to men and women, who get paired up over far less.

[@GIBBO4182]

Those fake fans were absolute cringe, especially the British version…sorry about that world

[@deathbysnusnu515]

Thanks. I had cleared that from my memory and now it's back.

[@GIBBO4182]

@@deathbysnusnu515 once again…sorry 😂

[@deathbysnusnu515]

@@GIBBO4182 My therapist will send you the bill!

[@GIBBO4182]

@@deathbysnusnu515 👍🤣

[@Xbalanque84]

Wait, what British version?

[@DaBigArmyDude]

*“Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.”* _-JRR Tolkien_ If “by their fruit you will know them”, can we stop with the charades and call out evil people and ideologies _as_ evil now?

[@jonsolo32]

Evil has a new term. “Progressive”

[@DavidNefelimSlayer]

Highly underrated post and quite profound. Tolkien would have loathed post modernist.

[@steveouk90126]

Sure. Start with the women who turn their children into sex objects on the various "child pageant" shows.

[@Xbalanque84]

I've been doing that since GamerGate.

[@prot07ype87]

@@Xbalanque84 GamerGate represent!

[@argosleuf]

Az’s cat reminds me of how I feel in this community. Just huddled up comfy and listening in the corner. I don’t usually say much because I don’t feel I have anything to add, but I take a lot comfort in the fact that there are other people who see BS for what it is.

[@oliverschlesinger6744]

As long as you don't bite unprovoked like some cats do. 😸

[@ezzahhh]

@@oliverschlesinger6744 Sorry, I didn't quite catch that do you mind repeating it for me?

[@Xbalanque84]

Amen to that.

[@Hopium500]

Growing up adoring the original trilogy I never actually got to read the books, but now as I go through the books and see that Tolkien had such a grip on what "characters" are and are meant to be I absolutely dread what they are gonna throw at us.

[@richardbradley2335]

Monkey poo i bet.

[@MrOrcshaman]

Just ignore it dude. Just think of them as robot chicken writers, all they do is parody works.

[@RanMouri82]

@@MrOrcshaman It's sad they're getting paid for trashing something great.

[@MrOrcshaman]

@@RanMouri82 I don't even mind clever parody, but you can see how that show gets desperate in making parodies most of the time now

[@TheRaviotar]

@@MrOrcshaman Most parodies that are actually good still require that the creator liked the original work

[@sworntoavenge]

LotR probably influenced me personally more than any other work of fiction that I can think of. I remember seeing my fathers copy as a child, he had the hardcover red edition with the gold inlay. It looked so magical. I would sneak it into my room and read it every night for hours. It helped develop my love for reading, as well as a love for heroes. I wept when I finished it, because the story and characters had become companions and friends. Almost 20 years later, I still admire the way the story is so meticulously and lovingly crafted. This perversion from Amazon has no power here.

[@Whitby_Abbeys_Ghost]

Right? I was 13 when I first read LotR. At that time my family was super dysfunctional and I had a lot of anger that I began to take out on my classmates. I began reading Tolkien obsessively and literally changed my way of thinking. I still had issues but the themes of self sacrifice, stoicism and love inspired me to become stronger and stop using violence to make myself feel better and with prodding from my church I managed to find the humility to actually apologize to my victims as well. Tolkien literally made me a better person, so seeing these people dump all over him kills me inside.

[@mattkhourie4037]

Amen to that last line. It's important for Fandom to remember that.

[@Xbalanque84]

My Dad has the same hardcover edition you described :)

[@crank1985]

That is the reason for which Tolkien created his universum. To give such an experience to others.

[@necrogressive466]

It's called having the ability to tell/craft a good story. When I was at school about thirteen years of age one our teachers would read to us at the end the school day from the 'Hobbit'. That whole summer term the whole class couldn't wait to get back school the following day. I asked if I could borrow the book for the summer break and re-read it again. This was way before any of you guys were even a twinkle in your Dad's eye. Now everyone is an 'expert'?

[@XiongGou]

If you want representation, by all means go and make your own story. However, don't come into a fandom, pretend you've been a fan all along and then try to "fix" said fandom by inserting whatever representation you think is missing. True fans actually care about artistic integrity and remaining true to the original author's intent.

[@daviddesrosiers1946]

My ears prick up any time I hear someone use the word "reactionary". This is a very, very specific term that is a blazing hallmark of a very specific ideology and its psychological tactics.

[@krakenmckraken9128]

Nuance, triggered, problematic, etc.

[@Kayl1980]

Marxists...

[@lubossoltes321]

having lived in that ideology as a child, I very much know what you are talking about ... and it is quite interesting that in both cases the purpose of using the phrase/word was exactly the same ...

[@TakNaMarginesie]

In Poland "reakcjoniści" (reactionists) was term for any force, which opposed to Soviet-puppet goverment after WW2. It was used that these people can't stop the spirit of great revolutions and can only react to it. If you were fighting Germans and Soviets for 5 years (1939-1944) and then you fought against Soviets, you were still "reaction". Propaganda posters (easy to google out) were showing marching young, proud man in soviet uniform, and a little, twisted man with big nose with "AK" on his back - short for Armia Krajowa (Home Army) and text: "Giant and filthy midget of reaction" - "Olbrzym i zapluty karzeł reakcji". Victims of murders, brutalizing, force working, r*pes had to be silent because only "reaction" sais Red Army is violent, greedy and demoralised.

[@guilhermedinizdosreis24]

Thank god for reactionaries these people are insane

[@davidrichardson5482]

As a gay guy with a lot of straight friends, the endless insinuation that the Frodo/Sam relationship has homosexual undertones really drives me mad. These people have never experienced true friendship, only bizarre repressed fetishised pseudo friendships and infatuations, and their constant projection of this onto others does a lot of harm to gay people and their reputation.

[@Ian.420]

YES THANK YOU! It's like these people have never had a deep friendship with somebody before so it HAS to be about sex every time.

[@davidsummer8631]

Tolkien fought in the first World War and its during war you can make the closet friendships you will have and in the books Frodo and Sam where fighting a war. So I never looked at it as a gay relationship but as a relationship of comrades

[@Langley_Ackerman19]

OMG Finally someone sane! Thank you. I get offended when they sexualize Frodo and Sam's relationship.

[@Dr.Gainzzz]

@@davidsummer8631 Exactly, they're literally two hobbits from the shire who have known nothing but peace their entire lives and then are thrown into an impossible adventure I honestly hate that people wouldnt understand why they are close friends..

[@samiamtheman7379]

To paraphrase Tolkien's friend, C.S. Lewis, "If you can't look at two close friends without assuming they're in love, you betray the fact that you've never had a friend."

[@darrenjones5885]

The only Tolkien scholar of note was Christopher Tolkien, who was left his father’s notes, letters and manuscripts. He had the source material to work with. Everyone else works from what he or his father published.

[@juliantheapostate8295]

Not really fair to Karen Wynn Fonstad. I recommend her Atlas of Middle Earth, it's sublime work and really helps get the chronology and geography correct in your head

[@edz1624]

@@juliantheapostate8295 You missed the point. Christopher Tolkien is the closest link to the primary source. Tolkien himself. "To be fair" has nothing to do with scholarship. Primacy, or the primary source, originates from JRR and Christopher Tolkien ONLY. And all works, no matter how sublime or useful, ORIGINATES from them.

[@RanMouri82]

Or worse, ignores it entirely.

[@jackgaltress7790]

Tom Shippey is another great Tolkien Scholar, well worthy of note.

[@darrenjones5885]

I was rather harsh, but Tolkien scholar and superfan are so frequently applied to people who’d draw a blank if asked who Tom Bombadil was.

[@everythingisvanityneverthe1834]

5:30 In Tolkien's foreword to the first book he confirms that he has a "humble distaste" for allegory and that people often mistake applicability for allegory. He absolutely just wanted to write a good story.

[@TheRaviotar]

Yes and, while obviously his experiences in war would inform his writings about war, that also doesn't automatically qualify it as an allegory (as we all know from Fallout, "War Never Changes," after all)

[@georgechapman9688]

@@TheRaviotar timeless books with messages that are universal and always relevant, because they weren't written as a mirror to his specific era of history

[@theterbear9915]

You guys are the voice of sanity and reason for geek culture and it's needed more than ever. Because like Gary said, been a geek my whole life. Now you have fake fans and activists trying to change it into something that isn't universal or for everyone, but just for them.

[@calummacritchie7840]

So much for inclusivity.

[@britasha1194]

100%

[@Xbalanque84]

Fake geeks are nothing but iconoclastic social parasites.

[@sparking023]

I hate to be That Guy™, but I was a nerd before it was cool. I merely caught the "end" of this time where nerds and geeks were shoved around, tho I had my fair share of mockery. I saw the shift in culture saw many "nerdy things" getting mainstream, and deep down I can't shake that feeling of "oh, so now it is cool?!" These fake fans are everywhere, and with each day that passes, I wish that things wouldn't have become as popular as they are now. I'd rather be excluded from the "cool kids" circle than see the things I like being desecrated like that

[@TheRaviotar]

@@calummacritchie7840 Inclusivity is overrated, gatekeeping in hobbies etc. is good

[@BarkingCur]

Shire Supremacist? Alt-Rohirrim? Pure gold, that! Speaking as a life-long, confirmed Tolkien Nerd, I love this! I really appreciate everything all of you are doing. Keep being the voices of logic and reason.

[@Hopium500]

Tolkien: Creates literal gods within his story that are subtle and nuanced enough to be as relatable and human as actual "humans" within the world. Sjw scholars: Gondor needs queerness, gondor needs inclusivity, gondor needs more POC'S!!!"

[@TruePT]

Sjw scholars= servants of Mordor!

[@KubuśpuchatekTVN]

POC? Piece of ©unt?

[@kaizokujimbei143]

REEEEEEEEE

[@napoleonfeanor]

No, they were just perceived by men as gods and were more like angels. Eru is God. It's like a Christianized paganism.

[@Yarblocosifilitico]

@@napoleonfeanor Christianity itself has a lot of "Christianized paganism". Tolkien was trying to go back to the roots, right?

[@sneakyking]

They can Tolkien their attitude and shove it up their one true ring.

[@johnfinn1570]

Bravo

[@JustTooDamnHonest]

The area were it is more darker/evil then Mordor.

[@TheMaleRei]

They'll have plenty of room. They had that thing prolapsed a long time ago...

[@DavidNefelimSlayer]

Bored With The Rings, the kind of satire you love only if you loved the original. I think Peter Jackson loved LOTR. Adaptions that did not disappoint. That being said I honestly could not stay awake thru any of the Hobbit movies.

[@Whitby_Abbeys_Ghost]

Loved Bored of the Rings!

[@Soundwave142]

Peter Jackson did his best with LOTR, as The Drinker Pointed out, The Hobbit failed because they made the critical mistake of making a trilogy when the should have made one film.

[@doublep1980]

The production of the Hobbit trilogy, was an absolute shitshow of epic proportions. Peter Jackson has pretty much said, these movies broke him. There are 2, very informative videos by Lindsey Ellis who document all the BS that happened. Among other things: The studio made Guillermo del Toro quit, he was supposed to make ONE movie, but they then decided to turn in into a trilogy. Then they practically coerced Peter Jackson to direct. Originally he agreed to do TWO movies, but while they were in production of part 1, the studio forced him to turn it into a trilogy. Imaging,working on a big blockbuster movie (which is pretty stressful to begin with) and then the studio tells you: "Hey buddy, we decided to make THREE of these, for maximum cashgrab. Be a good boy and write another one on the fly, while finishing the other 2 in time for release." The studio then tried to screw over WETA Workshop (the special effects guys) and the rest of the New Zealand film crew, out of their salary, causing a strike mid-production. Peter Jackson had to literally fight the studio, in order to get his crew properly paid for their work!

[@Briaaanz]

One thing the Hobbit trilogy gave us tho... is one AWESOME Hobbit movie. Check out The Maple Cut fan edit. They took the 3 movies and cut out the crap, turning them into a 4 hour movie that is very close to the novel. If they just did one movie, so many things would've been cut that it still would have sucked. This way, we get a full Hobbit movie that is actually good

[@SacClass650]

In the face of what's to come, those Hobbit movies will be viewed warmly.

[@isabellajohnson1562]

This is deeply appreciated. It's hard not hearing very many sane perspectives on art and culture. It's good to hear that there's still people like you guys out there.

[@SpaceJawa]

"Getting a person to subscribe to you is one of the hardest things you can do on KZbin" I can only speak for myself, but one of the major reasons I sometimes *don't* subscribe to channels is explicitly because of the typical "Like, Subscribe, Tell us what you think in the comments" messages that show up in every video. A major reason I subscribed to Drinker instead of just catching his videos when the algorithm tells me he has a new video is specifically because he doesn't bother with any of that, he just says what he wants and then tells you to go away until the next time he has something to say. It's an immensely refreshing change of pace from the norm.

[@Xbalanque84]

As a longtime fan of KZbin poops, I can't help but think of all the YTPers over the years who started out just shitposting for their own amusement. Any followings they develop/ed usually just happen/ed organically, not out of a desire for fame or exposure. Only a few ever built any sufficient following that they became incentivized to monetize their works, and those that did have had a tendency to branch out into other things or burn out. And KZbin has been screwing over YTPers at every turn.

[@boaoftheboaians]

Thanks for posting that comment, I'm taking note of ppl like you cause I deeply understand how you feel, honestly if I ever say something like that, I'd probably add a "like, and subscribe but only if you want to" sort of thing

[@gianna526]

I can see why they'd remind you to subscribe, but I agree if they constantly bring it up it gets bothersome. I don't mind if they ask once at the beginning or end, especially if it is their career so it's perfectly fine to ask for support. I do always love how the Drinker just ends with "Go away now"

[@JohnSmith-is4uu]

Critical Drinker is the best fooking channel on YT. I subbed because his content is always spot on and I even have an occasional laugh, which is rare these days.

[@anthonyweinersnose2583]

Is it reverse psychology? Maybe it is.

[@JustTooDamnHonest]

Amazon has no right nor is worthy of J.R.R Tolkien's legacy and I have been saying this for awhile now and they have done nothing to change my mind about them and what they are going to do to that legacy(which they are going to violate it so bad that there is going to be nothing of it left) is not going to be good at all. It is going to be worse than what Disney did to Star Wars.

[@MrOrcshaman]

Thats what's great though, tolkeins works are timeless, he wrote his works decades ago, and he made sure his stories had a beginning, a middle and an end. The only thing they could have done was try and adapt it, and Peter Jackson did that, show how good it was when sticking to the true story, and how it can fall off when adapting it wrong like the hobbit trilogy. They can't destroy Tolkien's works, because they are timeless. All they can do is either make a parody, or be true to the original story.

[@emile1365]

Amazon's just telling it's customers that they no longer want their custom, and I for one, am happy to oblige.

[@Xbalanque84]

Ian Malcom: "...Hold on, it's gonna be bad..."

[@JustTooDamnHonest]

@@Xbalanque84 Very bad Malcolm.

[@SilviaVanThreepwood]

I read the titles as "Tolkien's Only Fans" and now I can't stop thinking about it...

[@spary5751]

Thanks...

[@LoreChaplain]

Goodbye everyone, I'll remember you all in therapy.

[@harbl99]

Top 1% of fantasy authors. Follow JRRT for more subcreation and hot tweed suit action.

[@jiga6832]

Oh dude I didn't see it but after reading this that's the only thing I can see now😂😂😂

[@SilviaVanThreepwood]

@@harbl99 * Shudders with secret excitement *

[@solarsailer4166]

Keep fighting the good fight. There are thousands of people who want to celebrate the books that Tolkein wrote. Talking about his world and characters will never get old.

[@chance2413]

They are only allowed to "fight the good fight" because these guys (Drinker etc) are seen as helpful for the establishment, as people feel like they're "being represented" on KZbin, when in reality, the only time you can make comments that are even remotely right leaning is in regards to stupid movies, comics, games and shows. The people in charge realize that some form of "counter culture" is needed to corral those of us who don't agree with "the message", and these guys are just that. The group that is allowed to pay their bills by VERY CAREFULLY disagreeing, and only ever about media. These guys are the only game in town. Not saying their content isn't good, because it's fine. I personally enjoy Nerdotic, because you can tell he'd be doing this for free. But you don't get as big as Drinker without KZbin's approval, and to stay inside the circle of KZbin's "approved content creators", you must never say anything about anything that actually matters. They're basically a net meant to catch all the pissed off people before they go elsewhere to get their media. People who are sick of ALL the bullshit watch you call out liberal weirdos in Hollywood and feel like they're being represented. When in reality, no one who stands up to these weirdos about anything of substance (policies, current events, geopolitics, demographics) is allowed to make a living doing it on KZbin. If you are still on KZbin, it means they've calculated you are more beneficial to them creating content than not, and that should concern anyone on the right. They KNOW we have hate their movies and media. We are supposed to. They are destroying things we love on purpose. It's basically a victory lap on our graves flexing their muscles, showing off how deeply they are killing our culture and way of life. They don't care if Drinker says it, they know he isn't gonna provoke any action. If anything, he does the opposite, which is calm people down and make people think "well at least their are still SOME sane people left". This is EXACTLY what they want.

[@Xbalanque84]

@@chance2413 I am profoundly glad I do not share your cynicism, at least to the degree you seem to have reached.

[@gianna526]

@@Xbalanque84 great response, no need to egg them on.

[@MrOrcshaman]

Tolkien's works will always be timeless, because they came from a man written in a time of hardship, from someone who went through hell, and who held strong appreciation for those that fought and died beside him. Tolkien knew both the true flaws and true virtues within others, a real sense of genuine concepts like heroism, bravery, valor, as well as their opposites, greed, doubt, malice, the man faxed all these things, and did so in a time where what mattered was just being a decent human being, instead of the shallow and empty tripe that is fed to us today.

[@DaDitka]

What you said is likely the biggest reason why I am not worried or caring about what Amazon or any other entity does with Tolkien's work. It will always be timeless, there are far too many copies of all the books out there to revise it so that Frodo and Sam are having gay relationships every single night in Mordor, and it will always have good points and morals to it. So let them do what they wish. I couldn't care less, as I have my books and movies and will ways enjoy them. Even the Hobbit trilogy; it wasn't all that good and there are many things that could have been done to improve them, but I still enjoyed them.

[@MrOrcshaman]

@@DaDitka I know, I guess it just staggers me so much money is wasted on presenting an adaptation of one of the greatest literary works, but only doing so to push an agenda. It's a waste.

[@DaDitka]

@@MrOrcshaman It sure is a shame, isn't it? Why they have to ruin a great story rather than just make up their own story is just pathetic.

[@MrOrcshaman]

@@DaDitka it's because they have no originality, when you look into shows, film and games, even stans up comedy, when it's governed by these woke activists, they do the same garbage all the time, because thinking outside their echo chamber could lead to decent according to them. So instead they invade preexisting spaces with the aim to 'fix it' and make it appealing to only their limited world view. In other words, casebook examples of narcissists

[@jprsfragoso]

The easiest thing to do is to just not watch it. I know I'm definitely not doing it. 1 week later, when the tweets that blame the bad ratings on content creators and fans come out, we can all laugh.

[@Vherstinae]

Eh, the fact that these companies are still getting paid from our tax dollars via ESGs means that they no longer care about making money: the government is picking our pockets and handing our money to the poor starving megacorporations. That's why we're seeing so much indoctrination and outright destruction: they don't have to care about earning our business anymore.

[@rexrogers1859]

Precisely 😁

[@M4dM4n96]

Oh no, I shall watch it. I shall bear witness to the tragic comedy of the Rings of Power and shall then communicate the horrors to you.

[@gianna526]

@@M4dM4n96 I'm going to watch the first couple episodes so I can criticize it properly. After that I'm not giving them another dime. A lot of people are going to be watching the beginning, so me not doing it won't benefit much.

[@bdubs2457]

A big thing with movies and books before is that they were timeless and universal. You wanted to have the strengths or traits of those characters you saw or read about. Now everything must reflect the real world and it numbs creativity and storytelling

[@shanestevens5352]

Thing s Tolkien’s work did reflect parts of the real world but purely in emotional realities of those in the story particularly in the friendships and PTSD faced by Frodo. He used his own experiences from WW1 and his fighting in the bloodiest battle of the war in writing aspects of the LOTR. For instance Sam and Frodo is heavily based on his relationship with one of his friends who stuck by his side. Tolkien wrote about the best parts of humanity

[@kman9884]

It doesn’t even reflect the real world. It reflects a desire for a world that doesn’t and will never exist.

[@thatHARVguy]

@@kman9884 Just like "my truth". The "truth" of someone that loves something is different from the "truth" of someone that hates the something.

[@lsurouge]

"And nine, nine rings were gifted to the race of men, who, above all else, desire power. But they were, all of them, deceived, for another Ring was made.". Applies even to this day...

[@ianpage2509]

As I tell people “This story deals with the consequences of war and power.”

[@TheMistyBlueLounge]

That's exactly it, channels like this are saying things that resonate with viewers. You're not manipulating the audience into conforming to your view. That's what mainstream entertainment does these days, and that's why they're becoming irrelevant.

[@mikenyc1501]

I was first exposed to the hobbit in 1982. I have read it and LOTR and the silmarillion each over 20 times. These men speak my opinion louder than I can, as my work is engineering, not entertainment.

[@PaulMclauchlin]

It was especially interesting to hear Drinker talk about these stories not being an allegory for anything. He is 100% correct there, Tolkien is on record as saying that they aren't and that he disliked allegory. Anyone claiming otherwise is a liar. BTW, you can even find Tolkien interviews on KZbin where he addresses this specifically.

[@Xbalanque84]

I disagree only inasmuch as myths (in terms of ancient literary genre) are almost entirely composed of cosmic narrative allegories. By the same token, legends straddle the line between myth and pseudo-history. Tolkien was actively trying to create new myths and legends, and was consequently working within the rules of such literary frameworks; whatever allegories he did write were largely incidental to the genres rather than some deeper subtext trying to convey a cohesive message. Tolkien's work doesn't need subtext, it stands on its own well enough without it.

[@gianna526]

@@Xbalanque84 Well Tolkien hated allegories, and it doesn't seem like there are any in the story. There are metaphors, but no allegories.

[@Oysjen]

Spot on Drinker. I watch reviews and content about shows and movies to verify my own opinion. If we don't share the same views that won't then necessarily change how I feel. But I know we usually think the same way so it's good to get that confirmation.

[@chance2413]

These guys are seen as helpful for the establishment, as people feel like they're "being represented" on KZbin, when in reality, the only time you can make comments that are even remotely right leaning is in regards to stupid movies, comics, games and shows. The people in charge realize that some form of "counter culture" is needed to corral those of us who don't agree with "the message", and you guys are just that. The group that is allowed to pay their bills by VERY CAREFULLY disagreeing, and only ever about media. You guys are the only game in town. Not saying your content isn't good, because it's fine. I personally enjoy Nerdotic, because you can tell he'd be doing this for free. But you don't get as big as Drinker without KZbin's approval, and to stay inside the circle of KZbin's "approved content creators", you must never say anything about anything that actually matters. Your basically a net meant to catch all the pissed off people before they go elsewhere to get their media. People who are sick of ALL the bullshit watch you call out liberal weirdos in Hollywood and feel like they're being represented. When in reality, no one who stands up to these weirdos about anything of substance (policies, current events, geopolitics, demographics) is allowed to make a living do it on KZbin. If you are still on KZbin, it means they've calculated you are more beneficial to them creating content than not, and that should concern anyone on the right.

[@TheRaviotar]

@@chance2413 "JuSt MaKe YoUr OwN yOuTuBe"

[@RRTNZ]

This was a GOAT stream, fitting for a GOAT movie. The extended cut has always been my favourite version - but I saw the cinematic version 5x back in 2003. They don't come much better- and even if we never get another film like this it's existence makes the world a better place. Stand now men of the West !

[@romarudarkeyes]

Gotta love AZ just carrying on while his fur baby is just hanging out on his shoulder. "I sit here now human. I care not that you are working."

[@gofur73]

And he is bending over and over even more to the will of his feline overlord. I'm afraid he might have some neck problems afterwards. But on the other hand: a warm purring cat on your shoulder is quite a treat. You could monetize that ^^

[@mcwolf1096]

Shoulder cats are simply the best 😺

[@Fulphilment]

Shoulder cars are TIGHT! errr... that came out wrong...

[@robwalsh9843]

It's cute until you take a cat fart to the back of the head

[@mcwolf1096]

@@robwalsh9843 ...but it'll be cute again moments later 😸

[@charlesjmouse]

Absolutely well said guys. In particular 5:45 - more than any dislike I have for broken 'modern sensibilities' it's the inescapable fact that our culture doesn't create anymore that saddens and worries me most. A culture that doesn't create is no culture at all, and one that is likely not far from a disastrous fall - a pattern repeated throughout history.

[@EvilDoresh]

Not to mention worrisome revisionist tendencies, as the _old_ stuff is seen has _problematic_ and in need of a more _objectively good_ update.

[@stephanie4698]

I'm subscribed to all of these people, and it only took watching one video for me to do it. Because they put it exactly right, they're saying what I've been thinking in a way I can't put into words myself. It's cathartic in a way, to know you're not alone and that there are other people who think the same way.

[@madebymonkeys5641]

"into each generation, less are born. And those who are, seam..... Less, than those who came before".- Lenire , Babylon 5.

[@kyleshockley1573]

@4:43 A culture without love will see _philia_ and _agape_ as eros. It can't understand the former when it indulges in the latter. Licentiousness tends to turn into "Got a license for that?" Etc.

[@daistoke1314]

I knew people who knew Tolkien. They all said he was a man who had a deep, very strong, morality. He created his stores from the pleasure of creating a mythology. He wasn't making a point, or arguing a case, it was the joy of creation itself that drove him. His life experience obviously affected his work, everyone one of us is moulded by our lives, but the stories were important to him, for their sake, not his " agenda" .

[@Silver-Sliver]

"They Gollum it! They want that Precious..." This made me laugh in delight; it was funny and spot on. I really appreciate you guys.

[@vissermatt1058]

tolkien was such an amazing author, he wrote a character for people to aspire to be! there are now tens of thousands of people who have seen Gollum and KNOW they can be more, they can desire more, they can jump in a volcano and make the world a better place!

[@jamesthomson5384]

Thanks for these snippets. Like the format where you cut these discussions into smaller bite size, more accessible videos. Great job from a fellow Scot

[@Lordbloodwolf7]

If Amazon wanted to actually do something “diverse” or anything of that nature, they would’ve looked at the men of Rhun who opposed Sauron i think around the 1st or 2nd Age (i cant remember exactly). I would have watched that tbh. It would be accurate and be able to incorporate all the elements of “diversity” they wanted to promote. What a waste

[@MrJeffcoley1]

Crapping all over the existing IP to stick it up the fans' nose is a feature, not a flaw.

[@wizards-themagicalconcert5048]

But the problem is already in the titl " the MEN of Rhun" M E N !!! They can't have Men !

[@amycorona6602]

I firmly believe that Tolkien left the East and South of Middle Earth unexplored so others could create stories in Middle Earth as well.

[@chance2413]

@@wizards-themagicalconcert5048 They already inb4ed this. They said the men of Rhun/Khand are "bad guys", and you can't make brown people the bad guys.

[@petriew2018]

@@chance2413 which shows how fucking stupid they are. They could have very easily make Gondor the 'bad guys' because Tolkien himself says the men of the East and the East were easily swayed to the cause of Mordor by the arrogance and mistreatment they suffered at the hands of the numenorean colonizers. They could have made some attempt to flesh out the cultures of the people who server Sauron, made them just normal people instead of stereotypes... but no, then they'd have to rely on purely original characters and ideas and Amazon doesn't believe in that. They handcuffed themselves because they only believe in stereotypes... If Jeff Bezos wanted 'game of throne in middle earth', This show should have been about the fall of the individual ringwraiths and how each one eventually became a servant of shadow. We know at least one was an Easterling, they could have easily made the nine of them for very diverse backrounds and still been well within the realm of 'lore friendly'

[@Auriorium]

I could say I am a "Tolkien Scholar" but I am not a narcist who would say that.

[@EyeOfMagnus4E201]

I’d imagine you’re actually more of an actual Tolkien scholar than those people claiming to be “Tolkien scholars”, though. At least you believe in the source material.

[@DaDitka]

I consider myself a "Tolkien Student." I am willing to learn. A scholar pretty much thinks he knows it all.

[@Revz8bit]

But you just did.

[@LukeRanieri]

Great continuation of the previous video. Thanks for this.

[@wvanyar1801]

I always find it strange when anyone wants to silence someone else’s voice or opinion, whether it is related to a religion, view point, or a body of work. My thought is your faith, belief in your opinion or your product so weak that you have to silence others? When someone wants to silence your voice, it usually because they fear what you are saying.

[@Vherstinae]

Exactly. We don't need to silence their voices, either: we need to raise our voices louder than theirs. And if these eighty years of coordinated indoctrination have coerced too many people to be silent? Well, actions speak louder than words.

[@DaDitka]

Spot on. I have not the slightest problem with people criticizing my worldview or religion because I know it can stand the scrutiny, even if I'm not the best defender of it. Contrast this with these woke fools (my apologies to all true fools out there for putting these people in your category)- their worldview cannot stand up to honest criticism, so they slander us as racist sexist transphobic homophobic xenophobic Islamophobic bigots who need to be shot in the head. Frankly, being insult and demeaned by people like them is an honor, and I say, bring on more of this.

[@wojak-sensei6424]

And out of all of the franchises to sterilize and homogenize, it's Lord of the Rings. You could've literally just made your own fantasy template and it'll be just as substantial of a difference. LOTR tropes have kinda been in a public domain space since my first syllables, so you're essentially buying the license of an already free product to anyone with half the braincell for creative writing. Bravo, Bezos. A true pro-gamer move.

[@JustAnArrogantAlien]

It’s because Bezos wants control. The SJW wackos don’t “own” _The Lord of the Rings,_ and this show is meant to fix that: to replace the “outdated, racist” version we all love with something that reflects their “modern” values. It’s like that scene in _Return of the King_ where Frodo finds a Gondorian statue; its head has been lopped off by Orcs and replaced with a twisted effigy. What we’re seeing Amazon do here is similar: tear down something beautiful and rebuild it in their own, hateful image.

[@EvilDoresh]

They want to tarnish the source.

[@M4dM4n96]

They want to wear it as a skinsuit. They rip it apart, murder it, and then wear it as a skin suit. They parade about in it, while mockingly reciting the little lore they know, and then they look at you. And as you watch in horror at their perverse theatre, wondering how much damage this has caused to your beloved, they see the shock, the horror, and the disgust in your eyes. They look down at themselves, assessing the charade is sufficiently accurate to (at the very least) convince themselves that they have done a good enough job to convince you. They look back to you, the smug satisfaction in the belief that their deception has been a success is evident in their face. But the audiences face is still one of horror, of shock and disgust. Now they ask you, "don't you love me?" "Don't you remember all of the great times we had?" "Why can't you just accept me for me?" "Things change, people change." "Why won't you love me?" They demand that you love them. They demand that you ignore your revulsion, that you ignore the horror. That you ignore what they have done to your beloved, what they have done to you, what they mean to do to you. They are treacherous, villainous scum.

[@EvilDoresh]

@@M4dM4n96 Though _do_ they care about the old fans?

[@M4dM4n96]

@@EvilDoresh oh they do care. But it's a perverted, inverted form of caring that one could largely only find in sadists.

[@MatthiasPowerbomb]

I've subscribed to you guys and watch your videos because, as you said, you were articulating what I've seen happening to movies and entertainment over the last decade or so, for years before I discovered any of your channels. You obviously couldn't "make" me feel the way I felt years before I even knew you existed. You have thoughtful, well-reasoned takes on what's happening in the world of entertainment and broader geek culture, and I simply appreciate that, and I appreciate it more as time goes on and the madness continues to just get uglier and more absurd.

[@matthewbond375]

There's been this switch in entertainment from enticing an audience to enjoy a creation to DEMANDING that an audience enjoys a creation. You're a "bad" audience member if you don't swallow what you're served. No amount of coercion can create true admiration. Charm me, or lose my money and attention.

[@sillygoose9791]

It's not good enough for them to make simple, cheap films. They have to sink millions into their 'message' vessels, and are at the whim of shareholders. Expecting a grass roots appreciation doesn't translate to profit, so they have to engineer the audience from which they can withdraw shekels.

[@therecanbeonlyone801]

The samples of previous conversations is working well for me. Thoroughly enjoyed the discussion.

[@AscendantStoic]

The level of hypocrisy by those Onering clowns is beyond laughable, like ... what the actual hell!!!?

[@arcanumverse]

9:10 the drinker lays out why I appreciate you all, well done putting it so simply mate!

[@marknash4442]

I've stopped watching any stuff they pump out now. So sad. The last time I watched anything at the cinema was Rogue One, in 2017. After that, I was finished with it all. A star trek and star wars fan, spiderman, superman, all the comics from the 60s/70/80s, a die hard almost. The shit they pump out is nothing more than bland, idealogical, woke garbage

[@GIBBO4182]

Logan, for me. Also 2017

[@EyeOfMagnus4E201]

Hollywood is dead.

[@garlicgorilla6540]

Perfectly put. Could not agree more.

[@roelofzinn8227]

I can recommend seeing Matt Reeves' The Batman. There's one line from Catwoman that kinda rubbed me wrong, but on the whole a solid film. At least the line from Catwoman was from a character's perspective, and not indicative of how the world of Batman operates. It's worth at least one watch.

[@robertbeisert3315]

Last time for me was TLJ, sadly enough. I didn't pay for the ticket and still want my money back.

[@ravenk7149]

I like these little cuts you keep putting out

[@AdamSmith-kq6ys]

Worth noting that Tolkien himself went out of his way to state in forewords that he _despised_ allegory from the moment he was able to detect it.

[@RaptorJesus]

Applicability, not allegory, indeed.

[@Daemonarch2k6]

Can we please praise the moment, that cute cat entered supremacist's shoulder like the parrot of an pirate? This completely killed me

[@Ensign_Cthulhu]

The only thing that's missing here is Just Some Guy. You've got to hand it to a man who gets so angry when people trash Tolkien that he STARTS SWEARING IN ELVISH.

[@bobsmith5185]

You should counter that TheOneRing should give up all their access from Amazon and from whomever else. They shill & get access; you tell the truth & get money.

[@chance2413]

They "get money" because these guys (Drinker etc) are seen as helpful for the establishment, as people feel like they're "being represented" on KZbin, when in reality, the only time you can make comments that are even remotely right leaning is in regards to stupid movies, comics, games and shows. The people in charge realize that some form of "counter culture" is needed to corral those of us who don't agree with "the message", and these guys are just that. The group that is allowed to pay their bills by VERY CAREFULLY disagreeing, and only ever about media. These guys are the only game in town. Not saying their content isn't good, because it's fine. I personally enjoy Nerdotic, because you can tell he'd be doing this for free. But you don't get as big as Drinker without KZbin's approval, and to stay inside the circle of KZbin's "approved content creators", you must never say anything about anything that actually matters. They're basically a net meant to catch all the pissed off people before they go elsewhere to get their media. People who are sick of ALL the bullshit watch you call out liberal weirdos in Hollywood and feel like they're being represented. When in reality, no one who stands up to these weirdos about anything of substance (policies, current events, geopolitics, demographics) is allowed to make a living doing it on KZbin. If you are still on KZbin, it means they've calculated you are more beneficial to them creating content than not, and that should concern anyone on the right. They KNOW we have hate their movies and media. We are supposed to. They are destroying things we love on purpose. It's basically a victory lap on our graves flexing their muscles, showing off how deeply they are killing our culture and way of life. They don't care if Drinker says it, they know he isn't gonna provoke any action. If anything, he does the opposite, which is calm people down and make people think "well at least their are still SOME sane people left". This is EXACTLY what they want.

[@thelordofcringe]

@@chance2413 lmao did you forget Sargon still exists? How about Dev? Those are just centrists, there's plenty of huge right wing youtubers. Not nearly as many as leftoids, but enough.

[@thebrolander7880]

The drinker was absolutely right there. I subbed to him because he is able to articulate what I think. I can then use that when talking to my friends

[@leithgarretty2483]

Thanks for doing this brother.

[@jarrodpagac]

The reason you guys, and others like you are succeeding with the content you produce, is because so many people who grew up with these IPs are sickened by how they're being used, but the majority don't have the background, or literary experience to properly express those feelings. When I see a commercial for the next reboot, or spinoff, or whatever, I normally roll my eyes, and say: "there's more CRAP", but I don't have the ability to give a full picture of WHY its crap. You guys keep doing what you do, it helps put my brain at ease, knowing why my kneejerk reaction is what it is.

[@mikegilbert2329]

1:13 Alt-Rohirim - "I have Eomer's Helmet!" Shire Supramcisit - "I have cat ass!" Drinker - "There has to be a joke here somewhere." Awesome cat btw.

[@TankTaur]

That point at the end really resonated with me. You guys on this platform, us viewers at home, we all love the source material, what Tolkien wrote. But Amazon doesn't. And the people they brought on to produce the show outright hate parts of it. And now it's really sad to see these "scholars" and fan sites showing their true colors: that they love Amazon more than Tolkien. For shame.

[@sevenproxies4255]

This is not intended as an insult, so bear with me. Your channels are not successful because you possess some sort of brilliance never seen before. The success of "hate" channels is because you do possess the ability to speak to and condense the thoughts, opinions and feelings of your audience. That in itself is a great thing. But like you mentioned, you're not leading or creating some "hate" charges against these tepid mainsteeam productions. The hate and dissatisfaction is already there among us all, and there's only a few people who bring fair attention to it.

[@iz9744]

You are correct. I follow Drinker regularly... Not because he "leads" me to hate or whatever, but because he 99.99% of the time he articulates what i actually think. He didn't form my opinions, he did not teach me to hate BS (i knew that all by myself)...i found him just like you find any good and loyal friend. By chance and a bit of good luck. Cheers Drinker, you eloquent, charismatic genius with ruined liver! May you "hate" for years to come!!!

[@DaDitka]

I agree with you and Eee Zee. Way too often, I know precisely what I am thinking but it is very difficult for me to put it down in words. Being on the ADD side combined with eight rounds of chemotherapy treatments for cancer can addle the brain, and it can be difficult for me to articulate how I am thinking and feeling about a topic. Guys like the Drinker help me immensely when it comes to what I am trying to say, and for this, I am incredibly grateful. I realize that the odds that the Drinker will ever see this are next to zero, but if he does see this, I hope he knows after reading this that he and others are incredibly appreciated for the way they can handle words in a manner that I simply cannot do. And other posters have been of help as well. I don't know if I have read anything from you guys specifically that got the wheels spinning in my head, but if you have, I want to thank you as well. Cheers, guys!

[@gianna526]

I'm a bit confused. Didn't they say that their channels became popular because they said what they felt, and a bunch of people agreed? I don't see that as saying they are geniuses. I was listening to this in the background so I may have missed something.

[@dilidingdilidong9797]

Really nice seeing you upload highlights of your stream

[@Rolilasx]

Hello good Sir, when will you release the full episode ? I love listening to these on my commute to work. Keep up the good work, wish you the best !

[@scavendooshmcjensen8453]

The cat on the shoulders is the coolest part of this video

[@jamescunningham1844]

A while ago remember asking him to do a video on why lotr is so great. We never got a video but 3 podcasts on how good they are. Not listened to them yet but that's a big props for lotr that it gets its podcast. Lotr is the best movies

[@spencer5654]

So thankful you blokes are around giving perfect examples of what made great genres great. Keep it up everyone!

[@ArwenUndomiel406]

The amount of open contempt that Amazon has for the LOTR fans, is just baffling to me.

[@ch355_]

“it’s sickening, because they’re awful.” you summed up the whole thing right there.

[@Gozokukolat]

Had to watch this twice because I was too focused on the Az Cat Hybrid.

[@Firenutz]

Honestly, gents. This is one of the most important dialogues of our day. Please keep it going and keep it humble and honest. No matter how ridiculous we may get in our opinions and passions, the pure fan asks for one thing only: respect for the storytellers. They are the voices around the campfires of our imagination, so just sit down with us, shut up and listen. You may get swept away in something other than your own bullshit.

[@sorrowkhan2067]

5:59 or around there--excellent point! "Creativity" according to the actions exemplified by Amazon's LOTR aping, Ghostbusters 2016, etc, etc, ad nauseam, has become a form of parasitism. Even as parasites, they're terrible: successful parasites don't kill their hosts, but that's precisely what this historical appropriation and cultural colonialism does. They are their own doom, it's just a question of what happens to the cultural ecology around them as a result. And Ben_Sisko has it absolutely right: Tolkien is infamous for how much he despised allegory. Any so-called Tolkien scholar who interprets his work as such has flushed their credibility down the crapper.

[@rwolff56]

Drinker you are right on with your statement that they got it ass backwards - Having read almost everything published by Tolkien and his Son and many works more than once- I think this qualifies me as a fan. My reaction to the Amazon trailer that aired during the super bowl was WTF and I knew I was definitely going to sit this TV series out. Shortly after I started seeing the Videos that you folks were producing and you have certainly become a voice for fans like me - your efforts and your videos are greatly appreciated and now you have a follower that you probably wouldn’t have had had they not pulled this BS and then tried to attack Tolkien’s fan base - keep up the good work.

[@Whitby_Abbeys_Ghost]

Off topic, but HeelvsBabyface ranting while his cat hangs out on his shoulder makes him look like a supervillain.

[@spiderknight9893]

Next time gadget next time!

[@emamag6455]

10:00 you are freaking right, drinker! The reason I subscribed to your channel is because you say what i think, and i feel myself less alone and lost in this senseless world knowing that there's other people out there that think like me.

[@Zathren]

"We challenge everyone to stop making money because we're unable to make money due to no one likes us anymore." . . . yeah, okay buddy. Good luck with that.

[@Dr.Ahmed.Tah81]

Thanks Drinker 🙏🏻 for the short focused clips

[@stonecoldprose]

This is why I love the Drinker so much. He gets to the heart of things. C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien were very close. Both men were also devout Christians and from their religion they took the idea that evil, as represented by Screwtape (Lewis) and Morgoth/Sauron (Tolkien) cannot create but only corrupt. So it is with entertainment in the last 5 - 10 years. They can't make anything new out of their shitheap of an ideology, they can only poison art that already exists.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

"They're just saying what we think." Absolutely.

[@Fledermausmann]

I'm just looking forward to seeing the final series in the Drinker discusses the actual Lord of the Ring Trilogy! Also someone has to really put these fake fans in their place. It's absolutely ridiculous that they think their idiotic ideas can be made to ruin this great literary work...

[@Arendelft]

I'm glad Drinker mentioned "Articulate it." I have the ambition and the drive to make content like this, but I lack focus to articulate it. Anxiety, ADHD, Depression and indeed, Jealousy of those that have done what I wish I could do hold me back. Oh how I wish I could be half as articulate as Drinker when he's blackout drunk... that may seem like a low bar but if you ever watch one of my videos you'll realize it's a high one for me.

[@richvestal767]

Its why James Lindsay calls it "The Iron-Clad Law of Woke Projection." All they do is accuse others of all the crap that they constantly are doing. They're in every degree the monsters that they claim to be fighting against.

[@frankie3041]

This conversation was 🌟 You guys are on to something. Keep following that thread.

[@woebringer7884]

“They’re picking the bones of something made 70 yrs ago” Probably the most poignant observation ever made concerning what Amazon is doing. They must be stopped...at all costs. A hill worth dying on, I’d argue. All I can do personally is not watch it and ensure my money isn’t supporting this abortion. But kudos to Critical Drinker, Nerdrotic, Disparu, George the Giant Slayer and the many other YTubers who are informing the masses of what’s really going on and why it’s important.

[@coolhand889]

The most riveting thing is when j.r.r. Tolkien came up with his world was in the trenches during World War 1 seeing some of the most horrible things in human history and he created a story that Inspire Generations

[@MrEhcks]

No joke when the Jackson films first came out I enjoyed them immensely but, still had plenty of complaints other than the low hanging fruit like the absence of Bombadil or early kill off of Saruman. Yet I appreciated them for the ways they remained faithful and was happy I could share the story I had loved for so long with people who were not fans. The Hobbit movies tho were so bad by comparison I was completely crestfallen. I couldn't even finish them they sucked so hard. Now I'm not even going to try. I'm done with Hollywood. Fuck Disney, fuck Amazon, fuck Netflix. I'm not even gonna watch any of it. Gonna reread unfinished tales for the 23rd time instead.

[@simdoughnut659]

So the fact that based on the Jackson mythos Gandalf could have just called the Giant Eagles, flown Frodo to Mount Doom and back again, and ended the whole thing in a few days doesn't bother you at all?

[@MrEhcks]

@@simdoughnut659 That plot line has been debunked many times. The eagles would never have made it to mount doom without being seen by Sauron. Because the volcano wasn't open they couldn't just fly over and drop the ring from above. The Nazgul were also airborne and could easily intercepted the eagles. Also even if you wanted to consider that a legit plot hole, it has nothing to do with Jackson's adaptations and is a part of the original canon.

[@RaptorJesus]

@@MrEhcks Don't forget that the Eagles are not perfect, and could possibly be corrupted by the Ring too.

[@BigPuddin]

Oh, please. Omitting that bumblefuck of a pacing nightmare Bombadil was a stroke of genius on Jackson's part. Bombadil added virtually nothing to the books but extra pages. It was impossible to adapt everything in the span of three films so Jackson had to choose what to specifically leave out.

[@DaDitka]

I know I'm in the extreme minority here and I'm probably a giant idiot in everyone's eyes for saying this, but I really liked the Hobbit trilogy. Yes, they were not anywhere near the level of the LotR trilogy. And there are several things I would have done differently with the movies which I won't list here. But at least Jackson, in my judgement, tried to remain true to what Tolkien's story actually was. I would rather watch An Unexpected Journey where the stone giants are actually made of stone (despite this not at all being the case in the book), than watch An Unexpected Journey where the giants are stoned and are transgender women impersonating elves, which is what the woke crowd would have done if they had the chance. Again, if you think I'm a moron for liking the Hobbit trilogy, go ahead and say so. I'm a big boy and can handle insults, and if I don't, well, I'll get over it. But I'll take the Hobbit trilogy over what is likely going to come out today any day of the week and seventy times on Sunday.

[@rustythecrown9317]

''I'll build myself up by tearing you down ''. 21st. century mantra.

[@laura-bianca3130]

There are only one kind of real fans: does who read the books, letters, see his art and listen to his interviews.

[@Jelperman]

5:50 Great point, Drinker. I refer to this kind of creative grave-robbing as Whitta-ing: riding an artist's coattails while simultaneously pissing down their leg.

[@joelreis5366]

If Az creates a channel solely for rants, it will surpass his main channel in no time. People that think he's great only because his over the top reactions, are missing half his content.

[@SacClass650]

Just Some Guy has been killing it on such topics. Well worth a sub...

[@alfieingrouille1528]

The dumb thing about all of this that there is an in lore place called harad where people with blackskin live they could have made interesting haradrim characters but instead they just blackwashed elves dwarves and hobbits and for asian looking people their is a place called rhun they could have made interesting rhunic characters as well and expand the world without compromising the lore they had the money but Amazon is creatively bankrupted

[@RoyCyberPunk]

Mariana Rios Maldonado in her interview as Amazon"s abomination executive producer completely exposed the dastardly plans, goals her beloved Globalist Left Elite Masters have instructed her and all her fellow hacktivists Baizuo Twatwafles to carry out. Not to mention her overall grooming/breeding of what she and her ilk are. She said that they deliberately avoided Harad, Rhun and Umbar because using them in her own words "perpetuates" racialization.🙄 In short what she and her entire putrid kindred believe is that all POCs worldwide particularly the very dark skinned ones are incapable of any self worth and therefore can only be validated through tokenized repainted white fictional characters or white historical figures which is why we kee0 seeing this crap time and time and time again. And why we get a tokenized repainted Clark Kent instead of an actual kick@ss POC superhero like Static Shock because they see us POCs (I'm Puerto Rican) as less than.🤬

[@chance2413]

No. They know Rhun/Khand are seen as "bad guys", and they won't risk making the "bad guys" brown. Even if they're good guys from those areas, the general consensus is that those places serve Sauron, so you simply cannot have them be brown people. Too close to real life I guess.

[@RoyCyberPunk]

@@chance2413 You must have meant Harad and Rhun. And maybe far Harad. And NO is stupid to think that everyone in those regions served Sauron as clearly they did not otherwise Eru Illuvatar would not had sent the Blue Wizards to those regions to bolster the Anti Morgoth And Sauron resistance in those areas. Too close to real life WTF?

[@fantasywind3923]

@@chance2413 which only shows their lack of understanding and their own biases, because these peoples of the South and East in Tolkien's world are not merely 'bad guys', the whole point of the story was also to allow those folk who served Sauron for various reasons (either enslaved and forced, corrupted or misled, lied to, serving out of fear, or ambition or out of legitimate grievances against the West) to be liberated as well: "‘It seems clear to me that Frodo's duty was 'humane' not political. He naturally thought first of the Shire, since his roots were there, but the quest had as its object not the preserving of this or that polity, such as the half republic half aristocracy of the Shire, but the liberation from an evil tyranny of all the 'humane' - including those, such as 'easterlings' and Haradrim, that were still servants of the tyranny.’" J.R.R.Tolkien letters There are as we learn both good and evil people among those Haradrim and Easterlings, and Variags of Khand, in any way we also have examples of the Free Peoples of the West having normal relations with them! And at the end of War of the Ring, Aragorn as king Elessar actually tries to reach out his hand to those peoples! "In the days that followed his crowning the King sat on his throne in the Hall of the Kings and pronounced his judgements. And embassies came from many lands and peoples, from the East and the South, and from the borders of Mirkwood, and from Dunland in the west. And the King pardoned the Easterlings that had given themselves up, and sent them away free, and he made peace with the peoples of Harad; and the slaves of Mordor he released and gave to them all the lands about Lake Núrnen to be their own." The Return of the King, LoTR Book 6, Ch 5, The Steward and the King And then comes the particular setting the Amazon chose...the Second Age which deals HEAVILY with the treatment of those peoples by the colonizing Numenoreans, showing more complex perspective! "Faramir gives a brief account of the contemporary classification in Gondor of Men into three kinds: High Men, or Numenoreans (of more or less pure descent); Middle Men; and Men of Darkness. The Men of Darkness was a general term applied to all those who were hostile to the Kingdoms, and who were (or appeared in Gondor to be) moved by something more than human greed for conquest and plunder, a fanatical hatred of the High Men and their allies as enemies of their gods. The terms took no account of race or culture or language. With regard to the Middle Men Faramir spoke mainly of the Rohirrim, the only people of this sort well-known in Gondor in his time, and attributed to them actual direct descent from the Folk of Hador in the First Age.... The term Middle Men, however, was of ancient origin. It was devised in the Second Age by the Numenoreans when they began to establish havens and settlements on the western shores of Middle-earth. It arose among the settlers in the North (between Pelargir and the Gulf of Lune), in the time of Ar-Adunakhor; for the settlers in this region had refused to join in the rebellion against the Valar, and were strengthened by many Faithful who fled from persecution by him and the later Kings of Numenor.... In the days of the earlier settlements of Numenor there were many Men of different kinds in Eriador and Rhovanion; but for the most part they dwelt far from the coasts. ... it was long before the Numenorean settlers ventured north of their great haven at Pelargir and made contact with Men who dwelt in the valleys on either side of the White Mountains. Their term Middle Men was thus originally applied to Men of Eriador, the most westerly of Mankind in the Second Age and known to the Elves of Gil-galad's realm. At theat time there were many men in Eriador, mainly, it would seem, in origin kin of the folk of Beor, though some were kin to the Folk of Hador... Thuis it came about that the Numenorean term Middle Men was confused in its application. Its chief test was friendliness towards the West (to Elves and to Numenoreans), but it was actyually applied usually only to Men whose stature and looks were similar to those of the Numenoreans, although this most important distinction of 'friendliness' was not historically confined to peoples of one racial kind. It was a mark of all kinds of Men who were descendants of those who had abjured the Shadow of Morgoth and his servants and wandered westward to escape it - and certainly included both the races of small stature, Drugs and Hobbits. Also it must be said that 'unfriendliness' to the Numenoreans and their allies was not always due to the Shadow, but in later days to the actions of the Numenoreans themselves. Thus many of the forest-dwellers of the shorelands south of the Ered Luin, especially in Minhiriath, were as later historians recognized kin of the Folk of Haleth; but they became bitter enemies of the Numenoreans, because of their ruthless treatment and their devastation of their forests, and this hatred remained unappeased in their descendants, causing them to join with any enemies of Numenor. In the Third Age their survivors were the people known in Rohan as the Dunlendings."

[@Xbalanque84]

What you and so many others need to realize is that this has _never_ been about making a good product. This is and always has been an exercise in *iconoclasm,* actively destroying the things Western culture holds dear, all part of a larger campaign to undermine and destroy Western civilization itself. Yes, a true fan _might_ know about avenues in the original lore which could, in theory, provide the PC mob what they _claim_ they want. But this entire phenomenon is predicated on _destroying the source material and the culture/traditions that produced it._ If that isn't evil, I don't know what is.

[@benjil.3122]

The Drinker's decline in happiness after telling Nerdrotic to put the helmet on, then seeing him put it down.

[@Xbalanque84]

I must admit, my exposure to Tolkien has been a bit... touch and go over the years. My father is a dedicated Tolkien fan, and has several well-worn illustrated hardcovers of Tolkien's works. I remember he read me The Hobbit at a young age. After that, however, my interest largely fell off until I started poking around in my Dad's Tolkien Bestiary. Most of the lore ultimately went over my young head, I was more interested in the illustrations and lore about the creatures/monsters of the setting (I still have a deep interest in creature design to this day). Ultimately, that brief phase, like so many others faded, but it left me with a general grasp of the Lord of the Rings' plot. Cut forward nearly a decade to the Jackson films. I, like everyone else, was blown away, but my overall interest in the lore remained tepid. It hasn't been until the last few months that I've started listening to the occasional lore video that I've begun to truly grasp the depth, complexity, history, and love of his craft that Tolkien has poured into his works. I am beginning to understand why my Dad loves Tolkien so much, and why the fandom is so passionate. I have witnessed these social justice parasites and corporate shills infiltrating and corrupting fandoms and IPs for over a decade. They could not muster a single drop of water compared to the great ocean of passion I have beheld in my father and the broader LOTR fandom. The fact that a website supposedly dedicated exclusively to Tolkien's works and fandom would say such horrible things fills me with unspeakable rage; if anything, it feels like a personal, targeted insult against my father. I would end on a witty reference, but as I am not a Tolkien fan, I can't think of many to make, and it would feel inappropriate for me to do so anyway.

[@mosshivenetwork117]

Tragic end. :( I am still not entirely caught up on this controversy so idk what else to say. Srry