Calm Israel-Palestine Debate Quickly Turns Demonic

[@God_gundam36]

"I was pro Palestine until I read ayn rand" is a hell of an opener

[@coryneff7048]

So I've heard of Ayn Rand for a long time. I decided to read Atlas Shrugged and it was awful. It's like a 1000 pages long and I feel like it was only written to jack off people that start businesses. It blows my mind whenever I hear people like that say that their entire world view changed cuz of her

[@Stable_Genius]

No kidding. I burst out laughing when he said that. 😂

[@BeenSauce]

The only way I could take anyone seriously after that line is that they are still teenagers.

[@donny_doyle]

Yeah- thanks Ayn Rand. I thought I heard him wrong. Nope...

[@AB-zl4nh]

5 mins in & I already gave up when he failed to acknowledge Israel has Gaza, East Jerusalem, and The West Bank under illegal military occupation. The last peace conversation had Israel demanding to have Israeli troops in Palestine, retain some illegal settlements & control the Palestinian airspace. This person isn't a good faith actor or ignorant.

[@Bruhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.]

“Why are these people owed water” is the most evil, vile, disgusting thing I’ve ever heard

[@mekonnenmuluwork3784]

i like my fascists honest

[@beo3828]

@@mekonnenmuluwork3784 You mean stupid. They're too stupid to be good liars.

[@Umbral_Vestige]

its a fucking repulsive statement

[@jadevixen]

My mouth literally fell open. I don't understand how these people don't hear themselves.

[@PearlsAnneHeels]

He just doesn’t understand the dynamics of the logistics necessary between Israel and Gaza. The guy isn’t evil, just ignorant AF. He thinks Gaza is a neighboring and self sufficient country like Jordan or Egypt 😪

[@vicarious4231]

There is no way this guy is a political scientist.

[@Ireallyneedintensivetherapy]

I mean heritage foundation comes to mind

[@yurigagarin9765]

Sorry to tell you that you're overestimating how much intelligence a degree proves you have.

[@Haijo84]

He was actually a candidate for a far right party in Amsterdam but had to resign because he stated that black people are genetically dumber than white people.

[@gustavchambert7072]

Or at least, on the off chance he actually has a degree, there is no way he actually engaged with any of the materials enough to actually learn anything...

[@callusniegier5056]

he 100% can be a political scientist, after all its the most useless university degree

[@lionheartz1337]

"I was communism once then i read AYN RAND AND IT CHANGED MY LIFE" is one of the funniest sentences ever spoken

[@coletrickle1775]

Having your life changed by reading Ayn Rand is just a "I'm dumb as fuck" self report.

[@newbie1958]

@@coletrickle1775 Basically this guy was probably left by default and never even read Marx but skimmed through it and only voted left because everyone in college was doing it. So him reading Ayn Rand is not that surprising.

[@Stable_Genius]

​@@coletrickle1775😂😂😂

[@bigbeautifulape5283]

@@coletrickle1775 I read all of Atlas Shrugged and I consider it one of my greatest accomplishments. What a boring fucking book. Interminable.

[@coryneff7048]

@@bigbeautifulape5283 And way too long. I've said I read it but to be honest I skipped most of Gault's speech near the end. Its just too much jacking off business owners.

[@samiamrg7]

He says he doesn’t support Israel or agree with them on everything, but he seems to agree with them on absolutely everything. He says they are doing war crimes, but is implicitly justifying their right to do so if it means destroying Hamas, which they aren’t even successfully doing!

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

Someone told me today that "it doesn't matter if Israel kills 10 civilians for every fighter, if that's what they have to do to eradicate Hamas." The same person told me that Hamas is bad because it kills too many civilians.

[@verager2493]

This is what terminal Hitler particle infestation looks like

[@mcbltgaming3694]

Sounds like what lefties do exactly with hamas

[@JoshSweetvale]

@@verager2493 I think the word you're looking for is 'blackpilled.' Normally that means being reduced to fatalism, but fatalism seems to be his default state. Either way, fatalism plus "fast solutions" and you're at Fascism.

[@BrockObama2016]

“People don’t need water” -Ayn Rand

[@Stable_Genius]

"I don't need the government." Ayn Rand I'll draw social security, also Ayn Rand.

[@R_AM02]

That moment was actually demonic

[@melm295]

Pol’s elected government usually provides them water. There are tons of rich ppl in Palestine. And there are 3 water parks and countless pools and beaches. So they have water.

[@pitdarkangel2961]

@@melm295 Do you drink water from water parks, pools and beaches? Because that's not drinking water.

[@R_AM02]

@melm295 drinkable water, you can't trick pool or ocean water. And Israel literally controls what water gets to them, like they currently cut off the water supply they had. So what's your point here?

[@canadagoose8543]

"I was pro-Palestinian, then I read Ayn Rand"

[@jamzpal]

i think we're all fully agreed on this sentiment lol

[@brandons9027]

I used to support palestine as well but then I decided to become evil😂

[@MrPiccolop]

It still amazes me that Ayn Rand is considered philosophy when even in Western Philosophy departments shes not really taught... aside from being a side show in some institutions.

[@OmarAyusoVA]

​@@MrPiccolopThat's when I knew this debate was going to be the most hilarious and yet infuriating thing I've ever watched

[@gamakujira64e23]

@@MrPiccolop ayn rand in philosophy is more like a punching bag for both deontologists and utilitarians

[@ransertu7630]

27:16 Israel doesn't even let Palestinians collect rain water "Israel even controls the collection of rain water throughout most of the West Bank, and rainwater harvesting cisterns owned by Palestinian communities are often destroyed by the Israeli army. " ~ Amnesty

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

Wow, that's like a bible story from the old testament. A lot of genocide in that book.

[@sypherthe297th2]

​@@bigatomicsloth3369Ancient history was filled with such shenanigans in one form or another. Israelis are one of the only nations to want to drag the world back in time 4,000 years to mirror their barbaric ancestors. . . to the extent the Bible is true at any rate. Archeology doesn't support a lot of the events depicted sich as the Exodus or Jericho.

[@mogscugg2639]

@@bigatomicsloth3369 pretty sure we were delivered into the hands of the Philistines for doing stuff like this can't wait to be blamed for what my homeland is doing just because my ancestors converted

[@LesterBrunt]

this had major "why don't poor people just try being rich?" energy.

[@galaxyocicat5660]

real

[@gustavchambert7072]

"I started as a Marxist..... Then I read Ayn Rand" And that tells us all we need to know about what sort of "Marxist" this guy was.....

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

That's like being an atheist and actually being convinced to be a christian solely by reading the "Left Behind" books in one straight jump where no logic EVER entered into the equation.

[@vidyagaems4063]

Marxist-Leninist

[@leanio8740]

He was definitely the type of guy who just liked the aesthetic and did no sort of research into being a marxist or egalitarian

[@shelovinthecrew]

« Libertarian political scientist » go back to the ball pit man

[@PeterXChhanX]

"If my pissing in the ball pit affects nobody but myself, I should have the right to engage in that freedom" Ball pit ayn rand stan

[@reececoulson9564]

i winced when i heard this mf describe himself as a libertarian while also being in my field

[@hadronoftheseus8829]

@@reececoulson9564 He's _not_ in your field, or any other.

[@shizanketsuga8696]

That dude is a political scientist in pretty much the same sense a flat earther is a cosmologist.

[@coryneff7048]

He's a political scientist in the same way that a shit poster on twitter is a journalist.

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

yeah, i'm really into rocketry. i've got a whole bunch of mentos and dr. pepper 2 liters. India ain't got sh!t on me.

[@isaac_marcus]

I read the last word as "cosmetologist" and yet no meaning was lost

[@BootyCrusader]

@@isaac_marcussame omg 😭 I didn’t even question why a flat earther would be into makeup

[@saltysheev5502]

On behalf of alll Dutch people I’m sorry about this guy

[@sebe2255]

Suriname*

[@MerelvandenHurk]

Same. I won't make the joke "we don't claim this guy" because, well, he has the right and freedom to be a Dutch citizen and believe these things, but I also don't want him to represent the Dutch 😅

[@neogeo6431]

He needs to take his pseudo intellectualism and leave

[@uli11]

Ok who let this guy out of his padded cell?

[@Ojja78]

He makes me want to believe in phrenology.

[@Passw0rdYT]

This debate was a hell of a watch on stream. Considering how mask off this guy got, while simultaneously being so weak at debate, it was honestly cathartic to watch vaush rip him to shreds. Compared to most of vaush's debates, this one is a pretty easy watch

[@nickelbutt]

58:56 I could watch over and over.

[@dckuha]

The most charitable possible interpretation of "Israel does not owe them water" is that the implications are completely lost on him. If he has never actually really put much thought into anything--typical for libertarians admittedly--the fact that people literally die after a few days without fresh water may never have occurred to him. So he's either a monster or at best a hopeless idiot. In all likelihood he's probably both, as are most other libertarians.

[@lopamurblamo]

@@dckuhaHe identified as a “Marxist” before making the Libertarian switch, I’m not sure charitability is warranted given what we know now, dude was probably a statist and hard pivoted into libertarianism as cope.

[@jmw611]

I wonder which debate you watched or when the "shredding" occurs.

[@jmw611]

​@dckuha The Palestinian's should definitely STOP making rockets out of the plumbing. I bet there is fresh water in those fancy tunnels!

[@lunatic9735]

as someone studying political science, I hope he can get a refund 🙏🙏🙏

[@themajesticspider-man6116]

I hope his degree and license get revoked and he DOESN'T get a refund.

[@alessandrobenvenuti6551]

The way he said “I was pro Palestinian, then I read Ayn Rand” gave me chills. I knew exactly what he would say from that point on. Ancapism is a doorway to delete your humanity on so many issues, it’s just the lack of compassion and the double standards that infuriate me so much

[@GeteMachine]

Never met anyone that was right wing, and not authoritarian in some way. Even if they claim their libertarian. They still defend it, just not on themselves.

[@coletrickle1775]

Liberty for me to oppress you. That's libertarians.

[@newbie1958]

You know what even more ironic for him, Israel has universal healthcare, pays 60% income tax, oh and the Orthodox Jews are exempt from the draft and they receive handouts from the govt. Not a Libertarian paradise.

[@LDIndustries]

I’ve worked as a camp counselor for almost 6 years and the closest comparison I can make to a right wing libertarian is an 8 year old. Libertarians defend their freedoms to the detriment of others the same way an 8 year old will scream and cry that someone else is cheating at a game but then happily cheat themselves.

[@dynamicworlds1]

Because right wing is about being pro-hierarchy. There is no non-authoritarian way to be pro hierarchy. Right wing libertarianism is a lie.

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

Not that you need any validation from a stranger, but I agree with you wholeheartedly. I got to about thirty and had moved from the right to whatever a libertarian is after the military and realized they're a whole different breed of stupid. I was naive enough to still think that "libertarianism" had anything to do with personal liberties for other people. It's just the guys who want everyone to go away and let them do whatever awful thing they want with no supervision. It has no substance to it, that's why it feels nice to be one. Just have whatever selfish beliefs you already have and find parts of quotes that excuse it enough for you to sleep at night. It's strange how I really only wanted happiness for the largest amount of people possible and I ended up lining up on the left, huh? Sorry for story time, but I like to tell people when they're incredibly right about something.

[@Argumemnon]

The only way to defend Israel here it to claim that Muslim lives aren't worth anything. A friend mine almost said as much when he said he found it hard to care for people who didn't align with his morals.

[@daryno9048]

I get the feeling for a lot of people think that Muslim lives matter less. They will say that it’s sad what’s happening to them but then defend everything Israel does. I seem one guy trying to say that Israel is actually doing them a favor when they manage to get rid of Hamas

[@jj947]

Your friend sounds like the least racist zionist

[@khiufu_666]

@@daryno9048 the problems is thats not what israel is doing

[@Ireallyneedintensivetherapy]

Since 9/11 it has become socially acceptable via manufactured consent to dehumanize a billion people while still supporting the royalty and capitalism surrounding it. Now it's happening to China, even tho our corps love working with them. It's pretty spooky

[@daryno9048]

@@khiufu_666 and when you point that out to them, they will just say “well what would you do about it” and “should they just let the terrorists keep attacking them?”

[@zacharytrevino6321]

I'd like at the start this guy said what Israel is doing is not a genocide, but at the end, he said palestinians don't deserve water

[@markharrison6498]

I’m two minutes in and am already so confused. “I’m libertarian and hence, I support the authoritarian state of Israel”. Wtf is that logic?

[@CteCrassus]

He claims to be an Objectivist, which is the most pant-on-head retarded political philosophy ever conceived, so logic is evidently not his forte.

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

Libertarians are down for whatever as long as you let them pretend they're a sovereign citizen.

[@elysahatestostudy9364]

It isn't

[@rickyhits6547]

​@turnthitchcock8432 you haven't been paying attention to the last 75 years

[@markharrison6498]

@@turnthitchcock8432 I think his racism against Arab people and muslims is warping how he views the conflict. He clearly sees the Palestinian people as sun-human savages who aren’t as deserving of basic human rights and freedoms as the rest of us. If the Israel government were throwing civilians in ovens im pretty sure he’d find a way to justify it.

[@cogsworther1639]

I see this “libertarian’s” idea of small government means eliminating both human rights and the sales tax, and I feel like there’s another word for his ideology. . .

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

I tried it for five minutes in my twenties and realized it's a club for people who don't want to have a moral code. Just "leave me alone and unsupervised with whatever dark shenanigans I want to get up to." It really disgusted me after I had listened to enough to "understand" what they meant. It's pretending to be an American patriot while calling for absolute anarchy and a "might makes right" kind of world. Some of them are better at debate than this guy, though. What a joke.

[@verager2493]

​@@bigatomicsloth3369they want freedom! ... for themselves. No one else exists, this is all Minecraft

[@julesdalli9716]

The more I see "libertarian" get thrown around, the more I think no one actually believes in true libertarianism.

[@IndependentObserver]

@@julesdalli9716 There are people that do, they're just not right-wing. Libertarianism began as a left-wing ideology, and was such for almost a 100 years, until Red Scare after WW2, when the movement was coopted by rightoid lunatics pretending they give a squat about any kind of liberty other than the liberty to oppress others, or die being oppressed.

[@thek2despot426]

​@@bigatomicsloth3369 Yeah, I've noticed this too. It's anarchy in the way most laymen think of it rather than the actual political philosophy: less communes and/or free trading, and more just the Purge.

[@SEC000]

"Im an objectivist" Ooh, yikes okay. "I was Pro-Palenstine but changed my mind when i read Ayn Rand" Woah man, please. My neck, the recoil.

[@nickv1212]

That's why I'm always sipping something when a Libertarian speaks. Better to spit out my drink than break my neck from whiplash.

[@samiamrg7]

"I'm not an ancap, I'm a minarchist" *I am dead, the whiplash snapped my neck. My severed melon went flying across the room*

[@goldengolem4670]

heck is an objectivist?

[@samiamrg7]

@@goldengolem4670 It’s basically greed and self interest as an ideology. Ayn Rand claimed self interest this was the only “objective” way to live, hence the name.

[@henriquepacheco7473]

​@@goldengolem4670 ayn rand fanboy basically, person who thinks society is a spook and everything is the individuals, and because everything is the individuals, the only consistent position from those individuals is their self-interest, and doing anything to improve other people without a direct material benefit for the self is not only illogical, but also immoral. This is the basis for attacks on, for example, social security, since a measure to improve the collective wellbeing, even a successful one, is not permitting the self-interests to develop, is not being done because of anyone's individual self-interest, and is done at cost to some people whose self-interest will be harmed (they could invest the money that backs such structures into something that better serves their interests). It's basically a way to complain about when government does thing, regardless of what thing is and what the effects of thing are - radical pro-private property cheerleading.

[@AlexeiIgnavich]

“Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas” in 2006 but there are some BIG asterisks in that statement. 1. Currently population of Gaza has 50% under the age of 18 so half the population wasn’t even alive or had object permanence when the election happened. 2. If you bump the age to 30 and under it’s 70% of the population which that additional 20% wasn’t old enough to participate. 3. Hamas didn’t win a majority or a plurality of the population in that 2006 election.

[@jhonshephard921]

Also if you look up John Oliver's piece on it, there was a lot more.

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

Netanyahu wins all of his elections, as well. It's like terrorists share the same playbook or something. He was found to be corrupt not that long ago and won another election through changing the rules, and here we are.

[@sebe2255]

Still sounds like a shit genocide then. Their population boomed

[@mcbltgaming3694]

Over 50% of palestinians support hamas and over 50% want conflict with israel. Noticed how you leave out those statistics you hamas propagandist

[@JoshFingerhut]

So? Hamas is still the government and responsible for dragging Gaza into war again and again. They're pretty popular too. Polls show the majority of Gazans support war.

[@raywilson641]

One thing this conversation confirms for me is that there is a difference between being learned about a subject and a genuine understanding of the experience of people living its reality.

[@samiamrg7]

This guy wasn’t even “learned” about the subject. All he knows is yhe Israeli propaganda about How Israel has been under attack and it is all the Palestinians’ fault somehow.

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

Yeah, that pesky reality thing screws up a lot of theories.

[@hadronoftheseus8829]

How on earth did it show that?? This guy is very clearly not learned on any subject whatsoever.

[@JewTube001]

nope. he didn't even seem learned at all! like ben shaprio seems learned, but when this guy said he did a political science degree i was in complete disbelief. i don't consider this man educated at all

[@LaBlueSkuld]

It's amazing what a Randian will dismiss as not an infringement of freedom the moment it isn't affecting them.

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

They're taking the wisdom of a wealthy meth addict to heart. I wonder where they went wrong?

[@sypherthe297th2]

Not really. Rand's vision is best described as a pretext for neo-feudalism.

[@Darth_Insidious]

3:10 "If you fight a war, you lose land." This can maybe be applied to nations warring over territorial disputes, but ideally the inhabitants of the land itself are mostly allowed to stay on the land they were living on. The issue is that Israel removes people from their land and deports them with every territorial gain they make. That's where they become a definitive settler colonialist state.

[@JewTube001]

he tends to use circular logic and just world fallacy a lot, so essentially Palestinians lose land because they deserve it, no more thought required.

[@Boo-jk3ii]

@@JewTube001 Well they do deserve it. I mean they and the other Arab nations did go to way with Israel in 1948 because they couldn't stand the thought of a Jewish state next to Arab ones. Just screams antisemitism from the Arab and well it seems most haven't change from that stance still. Because they feel so "wronged" over getting roflstomped by Israel each time they dry to wipe out Israel in a way. IDF owns all the Arab armies around it.

[@MarkArandjus]

Also, it needs to be said Hamas is not now NOR WAS IT EVER representative of Palestinian people. -Never elected in the West Bank -Elected in Gaza, once in 2006, NOT BY A MAJORITY, but a 44% plurality. Also 77% voter turnout. And about 50% of people in Gaza are too young to vote. 44% of 77% of 50% = around 17% of the people of GAZA voted for Hamas. OVER FIFTEEN YEARS AGO.

[@x7cipher7x]

Vaush, thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for all you've done since the start of this bout of violence. My grandparents were forced out of their ancestral homes and marched to the south of Lebanon where they still lived as stateless refugees until their deaths. Thank you for shedding so much honest light on this endless injustice. I spent my teenage years educating high school students on the conflict and I never imagined I would live to see the day that the Palestinian cause will ever see popular support but you (and others) have proven me dead wrong and I couldn't be happier about it. Thank you for fighting against the lies and uninformed BS people like this person spew on the subject. I hope I get to live to see the day a Palestinian state is born and that I can visit my family's ancestral home in Nazareth where they lived for countless generations before one of the greatest injustices in human history befell them and continues, unchallenged by the world's leaders. If I should be so lucky, know that it is only because people like you were brave enough to speak the truth on this subject. I wish you nothing but good health and prosperity. Thank you again for all the work you do.

[@gw7817]

I believe Americans are awakening to Isreali injustice

[@Hellodumbbitchs]

much love from Egypt

[@x7cipher7x]

@soy_boy69 thank you. Wishing you and your kin a safe, healthy, and long life.

[@x7cipher7x]

@ishouldbeonmountrushmore6831 Thank you, love & peace ✌️

[@asherroodcreel640]

​@@x7cipher7xthis is what I really like about being a leftist, you don't do things because thats what's your supposed to believe, you do it because it's ture and that helps people

[@holdommi7505]

listening to vaush finally snap and rip this guy to shreds at the end was cathartic

[@rudeboyjohn3483]

This ayn rand fan proves that meritocracy is a lie lol

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

Elon Musk already proved it.

[@asherroodcreel640]

I thought that was done by ayn rand

[@darrylemooreii4424]

Ayn Rand and objectivists broadly use their bullshit ideology as an excuse to be devoid of compassion

[@joshuacoleman8000]

​@@thewhitefalcon8539Many have proved it long before him.

[@fttommy]

"Big Ayn Rand fan..." Jesus Christ, here we go!

[@inrainbows1829]

That's my reaction when I hear that sentence

[@underplague6344]

The end of that debate was brutal. By far one of the best takedowns vaush has done of an opponent.

[@JoshSweetvale]

Here we have an honest, evil man. Getting chokeslammed. See now why all politicians lie all the time?

[@sathrielsatanson]

Mate, if you think that emotional outburst fro Vaush made him look good to anyone but his sycophants you are delusional. That guy couldn't make a good argument to save his life but Vaush was not much better.

[@tomtom0157]

definitely! if i had been in that guys position i would've never shown my face again it's so embarrassing

[@sathrielsatanson]

@@tomtom0157 well, well you still watch Vaush tho

[@DeathEatsCurry]

As a Dutch person, I'm sorry to say that this "Islamic people have a tendency to violence" is a disturbingly common take over here. Islamophobia is an actual problem here, and it showed in our recent election.

[@hadronoftheseus8829]

Oh, erudite Americans know all about Geert Wilders and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Is Herman Philipse still a "public intellectual" in The Netherlands?

[@JoshSweetvale]

Problem also is that in the Netherlands, the most vocal representatives of Islam are, eh, Salafists. The ones that move to the West to be their own little isolationist commune - and whose kids are taught white folks ain't human. They *do* exist. And they are _very_ loud and even a little dangerous! But that's not a 'muslims bad' problem. That's an 'extremism bad' problem. All the Wild(ers) panic about 'muslims bad' doesn't touch upon *Christian* extremists, which the Netherlands *does* have. And it lumps in *all the middle-eastern agnostics and peaceful muslims, down to the third, fourth generation* with these Karen Salafists. It's just racism using real problems as an excuse for bigotry.

[@19Szabolcs91]

@@JoshSweetvale It's also the case of refusing to address real problems and hiding behind "it's all bigotry".

[@steirerbua5322]

That's like the problem anywhere in Europe right now. Here in Austria the far right is leading with huge margins. (Historically whenever they were strong they would fly to close to the sun and get their corruption exposed which makes them unviable for a few years). Next election will be a close call between a far right / conservative coalition or a socdem / green / moderate libertarian coalition. These are really the only 2 options and I pray for the latter. Unfortunately unlike in Germany our conservatives are totally willing to work with the far right (they are getting there in Germany but it's still unpopular).

[@dr_birb]

The intellectuals know that it's not islam that's the problem, but all religions. Islam may shoot people, christians play with kids, each has their own niche of evil.

[@thephildiamond]

"All war is collective punishment" is such a wild thing to think/say.

[@wowcarnage]

It feels like a war on my braincells and they're collectively being punished by hearing that..

[@nightlydrugs6927]

@@wowcarnagetrue, my brain cells have been ethnically cleansed.

[@schwaaamjohnson7971]

Man this is hella therapeutic…. I had a very similar convo with a good friend last night that got a little contentious…. I thought I was losing my damn mind on this topic.

[@RunningOnAutopilot]

His main dilution is that the Palestinians can do anything that can improve their situation and secondarily that Palestinians have always been the instigators of violence both historically and currently Vaush gets him to admit that both of these are wrong and then he lets this all get dragged off on a digression and then it returns to those two big dilutions as if they weren’t just disproven Allowing him to go off and on topic let’s him reset The prison gang analogy is great by the way very good at showing how Israel is the first link in every chain of events to every bad Hamas action

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

Gaza is a ghetto where they have put their undesirables. Warsaw, much?

[@LDIndustries]

3:11 “they lost many wars” Oh…ok…so the Israel defender just defended Hitler invading France.

[@CteCrassus]

Oh no, it's even worse: He's essentially condemning the French Resistance during Nazi occupation.

[@sebe2255]

The ww2 comparisons need to stop. He is saying that when you keep attacking a country you can hardly be surprised that it has consequences for you. France didn’t keep attacking Germany in order to whipe them out. You might have missed this but Germany was the agressor in the second world war. Israel was not the aggressor when arab states tried to whipe them out Arabs tried to whipe out Israel and the Jews several times. They failed (sometimes comically) and they then rejected reasonable offers. Not exactly like ww2 lmao. And also the reason why a lot of people have no sympathy for the Arabs Palestinians. They are sore losers why can’t accept reality You don’t have to be a genius to comprehend the difference here, and that he did not say Hitler was justified in invading Poland (France obviously declared war on them after this to defend Poland, Hitler wanted to avoid that war)

[@henriquepacheco7473]

​@@CteCrassus his argumentation could be used to defend so much of what Nazis did that it's honestly ghastly; I'm almost shocked Vaush didn't draw the parallels himself. Like, the part where he went "yeah but the other arab countries didn't take in the palestinians so it isn't really Israel that is the problem" is directly analogous to the difficulties the Reich faced in the First Solution to the Jewish question (which was basically expelling jews from Germany). At that point, you're two steps removed from defending the Holocaust's killings because people didn't want to take in the jews Germany wanted to get rid of. Libertarian, pro-freedom, anti-government tyranny btw.

[@TheVibes101]

"There were war crimes on both sides" had me screaming 😭 the most enlightened centrist take.

[@MisterRorschach90]

It’s always the same thing when people try to justify their hate, they hypocritically hold the other party to the highest possible standard. They expect people suffering war crimes to just roll over and apologize for not blowing up faster. They claim every single thing as some kind of justification. Completely forgetting the fact that if this was happening to them, they would be fighting back harder than Hamas.

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

completely forgetting this happened to them less than a century ago. it's a tragedy for the ages.

[@CteCrassus]

For the Authoritarian mind, the oppressed must answer for every single act of misconduct and rebellion perpetrated by one of their number, while their oppressor is allowed vast leeway to abuse their power and victimize their victims.

[@Canyouseemeanna]

​@@CteCrassus The fact is that Hamas was funded by Netanyahu himself for years in order to undermine Palestinian authority. Hamas is not Palestinian representative. They are a bunch of terrorists loyal to no one.

[@TheMak1S]

In the 40's he would've read mein kampf and his life would completely change, of course.

[@22Vnnami]

What I’ve learned from this guy is that Palestine needs to pull itself up by its bootstraps

[@irnesvelic7467]

I get tired of hearing that the Palestinians were offered a deal multiple times and rejected it, without people even digging in to see what sort of deals were rejected. Just to put it into perspective, the deals that were offered included things such as Israel having over 90% of the rights for water, even in Palestinian territories, no right to return for Palestinians into the West Bank or Gaza from refugee camps in Jordan, Lebanon, etc. No military presence, no airports or sea-ports, with almost all import/export going through Israel. Who in their right mind would say yes to all that? It's just another form of occupation continuing.

[@samiamrg7]

And they didn't even reject all of the "deals." There are several times when Palestinian authorities were open to accepting a proposed offer only for the Israelis to abruptly pull out of negotiations.

[@nerag7459]

There is no obligation to accept a bad deal.

[@infectedanimal9830]

reminds me of the "deal" Ukraine was given before "Boris Johnson supposedly came and messed up". Lonerbox did a pretty good vid on it a while back

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

Netanyahu personally killed the peace deal when Sharon all but had it in the bag. Many people are still suspicious of how Netanyahu rose to power after Ariel Sharon was assassinated.

[@CteCrassus]

@@samiamrg7 It's a common abuser's tactic: Offer a "compromise" so grotesquely one-sided and unfair that it can only be rightfully rejected, which gives the abuser an excuse to act indignant and claim the other party is the one prolonging the dispute.

[@Studawg]

The whole thing with water and power is that even when the Palestinians try to dig wells or build power plants, Israel fills them with cement or destroys them.

[@samiamrg7]

“I’m not an ancap, I’m a minarchist” Ah, so he’s a fascist.

[@namelastnamefirst4520]

Minarchists want the smallest state possible. How are they fascists?

[@samiamrg7]

@@namelastnamefirst4520 They want a state where the only government functions are police and military. The most authoritarian functions of government. That is literally a police state, and those conditions are highly conducive to fascist takeover or at the very least a strongman dictator seizing power and using the only two levers he has (police and military) to maintain power.

[@samiamrg7]

@@namelastnamefirst4520 Also, this guy believes conquering land in an aggressive war is a valid way to acquire land. He constantly defended Israel taking land from Palestinians by beating them in wars. He is does not believe in freedom, he is an authoritarian who thinks might makes right.

[@yotadisigma]

​@@namelastnamefirst4520Because the elements of the state they seek to preserve (the military and the police) are precisely the ones that, more often than not, are used by authoritarian regimes to preserve themselves, and often where the state money ends up going.

[@mika161ultrainstinct]

I responded same way at first, but it's important to remember that left minarchists do not share a lot with right minarchist, and this guy moved over from being an ancap, so def was into right wing ideas, and then moved into a nominally minarchist stance. You're correct in general, nothing about minarchism is equal to fascism, but trace that path from being an ancap really into Ayn Rand who then started advocating for this, I get the person's reservations @@namelastnamefirst4520

[@dwaynlucas6028]

Its like talking to a brick wall. Only response to any question is "What about hamas?"

[@enricomassignani]

1:02:12 they conflate all Palestinians with Hamas, and all Arabs into Palestinian. Also, they jump back in forth in history. They talk about the Nakba, the Oslo Accords and the Abraham Accords like they happened few weeks apart from each other, without realizing how much things have changed since WW2 (most countries in today North Africa and Middle East did not exist or were French/English colonies, they had very little say on the og partition plan)

[@auto117666]

0:39 That is everything I need to know. Someone who reads Ayn Rand and legitimately gets their mind changed is indicative of a darkened mind. lol

[@just9911]

I mean, when I read ayn rand it massively changed my mind. The fact that people could organize their lives around such shit ideology was very depressing and contributed greatly to me losing all faith in humanity. This chud is an object lesson as to why I gave up hope.

[@galaxyocicat5660]

@@just9911 Just as there are evil people in the world, there are also good people. I wouldn't say there are a great number of empty, completely devoid of empathy, people out there.

[@just9911]

@@galaxyocicat5660 I want to believe that good people make up the majority of humanity. But even if that is the case, they don’t seem to be the ones calling the shots in any meaningful sense.

[@markharrison6498]

I knew it was going to get Islamophobic eventually. Dude didn’t disappoint

[@psychedelicjesuss]

Political "im a big Ayn Rand fan" scientist.

[@sypherthe297th2]

"I'm a political scientist." Translation: I work manual labor (or I'm an engineer/tech bro) and thus have no formal underatanding of politics, civics, or economics. I also can't be bothered to actually educate myself on the topic either.

[@thunder_claw]

@@sypherthe297th2 The plot twist is that this guy actually studied political science. He’s just a nazi with a degree.

[@grahamcarpenter691]

The entire nation of Suriname: We don't claim this guy!!!!

[@3bSneaky_]

Thank you Vaush, promise the Palestinian people will remember you. Your words and sacrifices are not in vain. I know it sounds ridiculous to thank someone for being on the side of humanity & human nature, but it feels right to do so. your passion and message is in good faith and may your higher power bless you comrade.

[@sacrilegioussasquatch]

Thank you vaush for being consistently based.

[@sacrilegioussasquatch]

@@HistorySucksV literal hitler

[@Boo-jk3ii]

Of your course you would thank someone that peddles lies and information that try and somehow support Palestine and demonize Israel that country that has been under constant attack since 1948. Also ask yourself why NONE of the Arab nations want Palestinian refugees? But they have taken Israeli refugees and immigrants, I wonder why that is? Hmmmmm

[@arcadiaberger9204]

I agree, this person is not a libertarian, he's a monster. And it takes a lot to distinguish a monster from a regular libertarian.

[@bravo561]

Yo the Vaush glow up has been CRAZY! Bro got the fade, dressing better. Good for bro

[@Jorge-np3tq]

Kind of nostalgic for the wrinkled anime t shirts worn three days in a row onstream that actually looked moist and you could almost smell through the screen

[@johnjordan211]

​@@Jorge-np3tqthe shirts were fine lmao

[@Darkloid21]

As soon as he said Ayn Rand changed his life I knew the direction this was going.

[@LDIndustries]

0:50 “I’m an objectivist” If I hadn’t gotten the idea from the title this right here lets me know this guy is insane.

[@lolo.theartist]

My issue with this guys line of thinking is that we have an example of what a Hamas-less Palestine looks like in the West Bank and even then Israel still kills people en masse (they recently murked a 9 yo and 15 yo in Jenin)…

[@Stable_Genius]

There's that. There's also the fact that a two state solution has been on the table for years and the U.S and Israel block it.

[@nickv1212]

Yeah but supporting Hamas is in their blood or some BS.

[@garrettwhite3922]

They were throwing boulders man. IDF had no choice against such force /s

[@Norgar756]

Even before this the west bank had much better conditions then gaza, so i dont know what point you are trying to make. Is it great, no but its better.

[@nerag7459]

@@garrettwhite3922 I am assured they were hurling mountains torn up by their roots.

[@embluvya]

Dude got so nervous and thrown off when vaush finally ripped into him with that "israel doesnt owe them water" shit. Dude would not stop stroking his beard to self soothe.

[@knowklelowbody7505]

literally mustache twirling villain

[@saragos1216]

>is a fan of Ayn Rand Debate should have ended right there

[@sypherthe297th2]

. . . what vid were you watching? Debate? I thought this was a two man comedy routine.

[@nidodson]

How does Vaush do this? After 15 minutes I would have been done with him, because he kept ignoring what was said, and has no understanding of any of it.

[@JewTube001]

i was off in the first minute when he said reading ayn rand made him a zionist

[@pilorj4444]

The fact that he's from Suriname, one of these countries that was almost from beginning to end defined by (dutch) colonialism and its exploitative nature to the point that to this day it can barely stand as an economy and that he himself felt it was better for him to move to the netherlands to get higher education, but still chooses to stand with israel in this situation and becomes a libertarian minarchist aka silly goofy capitalist is wild to me. I don't know what this proves or disproves though Ive seen people kind of like him before.

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

Yeah is he, like, "thankful" for dutch colonialism? I'm an American and I would be mortified if a native American was genuinely anti-himself. We screwed up and shouldn't be here, but migrating to Europe might be jumping to conclusions. I was "libertarian curious" a long time ago, and it strangely has nothing to do with liberty other than whining about not having personal freedoms that would infringe on other people's personal freedoms. I would describe them as something like "Patrio-anarchists with a thin veneer of capitalism". Yeah, I made that up, they do it all the time lol Incel culture for adults, if you will.

[@JewTube001]

i get some self hating native vibes from this guy. like an uncle tom sort. not too surprising he thinks you should just roll over give in when you get colonized. he has a lot of troubling understanding why so many Palestinians choose to resist.

[@SamieCarvalho]

In Brazil we call people like him the “Chickens who promote KFC”

[@sebe2255]

I think them barely being able to stand also has a lot to do with the fact that about half of them came to the Netherlands right before they got their independence and in the years directly after. And that isn’t a hyperbole, it was literally half of all of them

[@galaxyocicat5660]

It proves that survival bias exist, or whatever smoke Blaire White, Dave Rubin and others like them are on. "My trauma is valid but yours is not" or "Our oppressors will be nice and give us crumbs only if you stop fighting and be grateful"

[@esesa3660]

This guy’s voice has potential to do a perfect measurehead impression

[@gevaliaamalia6350]

Maybe add some AlGul for good measure....

[@mogscugg2639]

THE AM SAN DWICH RACE

[@nemotoad9315]

YOUR BODY BETRAYS YOUR DEGENERACY.

[@AlexDrums482]

43 minutes into the debate, after all his points have been defeated, he finally admits he's just against Islam and thinks Muslims are inherently bad.

[@SKRIE.]

Libertarian who defends Israel? Sounds like a libertarian 😂

[@mikecynic5167]

Libertarian doesn't really mean anything anymore.

[@nickv1212]

@@mikecynic5167 Well, right wing libertarianism, yeah. Pro-freedom but also pro-police state/state sanctioned ethnic cleansing, makes sense. But right wingers just stole the libertarian name and a few concepts from libertarian socialism, which very much is a real ideology that is actually pro-freedom.

[@CteCrassus]

@@mikecynic5167 It effectively means crypto-fascist most of the time.

[@JoshSweetvale]

In this climate, left-wing libertarianism and anarchism are effectively the same thing.

[@nunyabusiness9056]

I'm pretty sure modern libertarianism is just the fetishization of human misery with the naive assumption you somehow won't be miserable if anybody who mattered took your ideas seriously, thankfully nobody does so we don't have to do anything but point and laugh at them.

[@R_AM02]

58:56 that moment was just... it was just beyond. I cant imagine being that cruel or psychotic, this dude is broken

[@TheAledoPro]

Seems to stay unmentioned: Hamas presented itself a lot more moderate back at the time of election Most palistinians alive now couldn't even vote back then How can the "reign" of hamas be their fault?

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

yeah, they're second class citizens, but it's all their fault. where have I heard that before? maybe in an old german saying or something....

[@davidowens2067]

Notice him rubbing his chin the entire time? That’s his body language showing that he’s losing the debate. 😂

[@sargonsblackgrandfather2072]

As a black guy from Holland we don’t claim this guy

[@Jfk-ox9rc]

We do

[@ReddestRosa]

If you claim to have been a Marxist and were convinced by Ayn Rand, that means you either never read Marxist economic theory or were too dense to understand what you are reading.

[@nickv1212]

Simps to China or the USSR consider themselves Marxists regardless of whether or not they've read any theory. Makes complete sense to jump from that to objectivism.

[@MagusMirificus]

@@nickv1212 That's true; Marxism-Leninism is actually much closer to Rand than either of them would like to admit.

[@asherroodcreel640]

​​​@@MagusMirificusyou mean stalnism

[@nightlydrugs6927]

He did say he was 15. And he does have a teenage level understanding of most things, still, it seems.

[@TheReykjavik]

Some Palestinians chose Hamas, most have no choice. The last election was 17 years ago and Hamas barely won, they didn't even get more than half the vote. Most people alive in Palestine today couldn't even vote in that election as they were either too young or not even alive.

[@marcozanin5890]

100%. With that logic every kid born in prison would automatically be a criminal for being born in prison. Just profoundly stupid arguement to use

[@HarryDirtay]

Not only that, Hamas didn't run on their current "charter" that all the Israel apologists are crowing about. They said they would work towards peace etc. While the other option was looked down upon because they failed for years to bring peace whether it was fair to blame them or not.

[@salemflowers8613]

How can this guy agree that Russia is killing Ukrainian civilians, but look at this situation and go, "eh nothing going on here."

[@boomer4629]

Oof as a Dutchman I gotta say.. We are not sending our best 😅

[@declanashmore]

I know, right? He says he's gone on TV? Have you ever seen him in any form of media, because I sure haven't. ON! perhaps? :)

[@gamakujira64e23]

You don’t elect your best either

[@nickv1212]

Didn't you guys just elect a super far right leader too? Trying to restart the Boer Wars eh? Atleast Elon might finally live to see his dream of a real South African ethnostate.

[@boomer4629]

​@@gamakujira64e23man why you gotta kick me when I'm down 😢

[@declanashmore]

About half of a population is below average intelligence. After the US, France and Italy, it was a matter of time, really. Didn't help that the then-ruling party indirectly campaigned for Wilders. Terrible.

[@SurefireMa156]

The willful ignorance of facts it takes to hold these guys opinions is amazing.

[@pickcollins9910]

Why is he smiling and keeping his eyes half closed whenever they’re talking about Palestinians dying? Is he like…climaxing at the thought of it?

[@SuperSpasticNinja]

This guy is a MAJOR fascist. In the Netherlands we refer to him as R-Worded Drake

[@douglaschan6080]

What is his name? He is quite an idiot.

[@2russo.phobic4u]

This guy was at all the antivax/prorussia marches in Belgium & The Netherlands...

[@Allestya666]

This is an absolutely disgusting conversation. Everything this moster said in rebuttal to vaush's points had a major feel of racism and hatred of muslims. It all came across as "theyre muslims so all Palestinians are the exact same as Isis." What a terrible person, unwilling to actually consider the humanity of people on the other side, its so sad and evil. Also, it made me furious at his stupidity and lack of education when he made the absurd Ukraine comparison. In a real verson of this analogy Russia is Israel and Ukraine is Gaza. Israel, like Russia, is the country that is invading, occupying, and slaughtering another people. Yet if Ukraine, or Gaza, by some impossible circumstances mannaged to gain enough military power to just start indiscriminately slaughtering the civilians of their opposition then that would also be war crimes and evil. That will never happen on this issue though. If the Palestinians had ever had a real chance at a diplomatic solution then Hamas would not exist. "When you make peaceful resistance impossible you make violent resistance inevitable" cant remember who said that at this moment but it seems pertinent.

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

Riots are the language of the unheard masses. (paraphrasing mlk jr) and you are so right it hurts.

[@smackfanxion]

1: 'I don't understand claims of genocide, where is this coming from?' 2: 'I understand that the Israeli Gov is full of zealots currently using the situation to pursue their ethno state dream.' 3: 'Hummus though.'

[@cannedpineapple6878]

I am new to this channel, I am astonished at the level of patience Vaush displays here

[@stupidshinji1331]

It astounds me how people cant grasp "unless someone is a psycho, they dont seek out terrorism if they have other options".

[@luciddoggo5094]

Muslims are different

[@beetlebob4675]

​@@luciddoggo5094 That's bigoted as fuck

[@joshuacoleman8000]

​@@luciddoggo5094Only extremists.

[@philipvipond2669]

This guy, basically: "So just because Israel is oppressing them Palestine doesn't have to take any responsibility for their situation? Obviously, they would have a thriving economy if they just *tried* harder." Oh my god, he really *is* a libertarian.

[@davidnguyen7891]

59:04 "why would Israel owe them water?" Israel CONTROLS the water and electricity that goes into Gaza. The framing of the question is incorrect, instead you should be asking "why is Israel sanctioning water, electricity, food, and medical supplies in Gaza?"

[@AgitpropPsyop]

“We don’t have many in the Netherlands“ hmm, can’t imagine why. Maybe because it’s one of the happiest nations on the planet and they realize what they have is working.

[@tahaelhour690]

holy shit getting flashbanged with the vaush drip

[@antidote7]

Israel does control the Egypt border. Egypt must inform Israel, and they decide what can go in.

[@elianwyn]

I don't think there's a single historical political figure that outs you as a clueless idiot faster than Ayn Rand

[@optillian4182]

_"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."_ -John Rogers

[@beetlebob4675]

So glad I read Tolkien in 7th grade.😂 My bestie read Ayn Rand when we became young adults, and she loved it for a while, but after we trudged through all of the Sword of Truth series, it lost its luster for her, and I quickly understood where Terry Goodkind picked up his soapbox.😂😂😂😂

[@shwrl1556]

I like Vaush in this one, hats off

[@ravensroost9776]

Oh no, I know this dude. No one in the Netherlands takes him seriously, on behalf on all Dutch people I apologize.

[@wollny92]

where can i see more of him

[@ravensroost9776]

@@wollny92 you probably can't, your best bet would be a far right dutch news channel. He was also briefly part of a right wing extremist political party with a leader who doesn't believe the moon landing is real, before being kicked out I believe. If you really want to see more of his garbage, he has a KZbin channel

[@AlexDrums482]

I love when he said you can't use numbers to make your argument. Lol They aren't just meaningless numbers, they're human lives. I think that is a pretty important fact to consider. If you take that off the table, what are we even talking about?

[@redfin382]

I usually agree with Vaush but I agree with the other guy this time. I said this all the time in highschool. There were these kids that would cry and whine that I kicked their ass everyday. I told them, if you give me your lunch money and shock resistant portable CD player, I won't kick your ass...it was kinda their fault for getting beat up after that right?

[@django9898]

And then when they finally did give you all their shit, it’s not your fault you had their shit, they lost. Shouldn’t have lost.

[@galaxyocicat5660]

They should have just tried harder to not get kicked in the ass /s

[@samuelfraley8737]

“Don’t you agree with me?” No!

[@AB-zl4nh]

5 mins in & I already gave up when he failed to acknowledge Israel has Gaza, East Jerusalem, and The West Bank under illegal military occupation. The last peace conversation had Israel demanding to have Israeli troops in Palestine, retain some illegal settlements & control the Palestinian airspace. This person isn't a good faith actor or ignorant.

[@ransertu7630]

5:27 "No genocide because the population numbers keep going up" Who is claiming there is a constant genocide? We're saying the genocide is happening right now in October 2023. Is he saying the population of Gazans is going up in the last month? So since the pre-holocaust number of Jews has been restored, next year, will he claim there was no genocide of Jews? Since by his definition the population must always go down.

[@andrewslat7283]

I love how as soon as he mentioned Ayn Rand, the chat was like, "Oh, no, no, no, no, noooo."

[@RunningOnAutopilot]

About the the “what do you expect” He says that Hamas is the fault of the Palestinians and also that Israel’s aphartied Islamophobia (phobia being used in its correct sense here) and ethnic cleaning as a response to Hamas is the Palestinians fault when not only is Hamas a response to Israel but it was supported by Israel so that they would do terrorism and this would give them pretext to respond in the way which they respond. His whole thought process is “the Palestinians are at fault and this must hold true”

[@darkocelot7342]

Israel also specifically targeted and depressed the kind of moderate movement he claimed early on that if Palestine had it wouldn't need to be in the state it's in. No matter how you look at it, Hamas was both directly and indirectly promoted by israel to the point it appears like the only option for palestinians to affect change. this "palestinians are at fault because hamas exists" mindset is everywhere among israeli state supporters and I just can't grasp it.

[@BG-iz8gy]

Any see the smirk on Vaush face when the guy said he’s an objectivist and likes Ayn Rand? 😂

[@MrPiccolop]

Ayn Rand! LOL. -- It's like some people think shes a genuine intellectual.

[@benji9107]

As soon as he said ayn Rand I knew this was or is going to be wild

[@Ciobila]

For people having a hard time grasping how authoraterian Israel is to Gaza, keep in mind they banned them from getting SEEDS (like crop seeds) and by law the RAIN WATTER belongs to Israel

[@robinvik1]

'Why does Israel owe them the rain? Why don't these bums simply make their own water?'

[@Ciobila]

@@robinvik1 BREAKING NEWS: Israel to introduce new law stating that it owns Oxigen and Hidrogen.

[@Lerasium]

“big fan of ayn rand” That when it became obvious this debate will turn into a shit show.