Calvinism Isn't Crazy!

[@wonderingpilgrim]

This is a preliminary comment, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks of Calvin and Hobbes everytime I hear about Calvinism! XD Love that illustration!

[@josmurf]

The artist behind Calvin & Hobbes named Calvin after John Calvin :)

[@mynameis......23]

Debunking catholicism I'm more blessed than mary Proof = Luke 11:27-28 27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!” 28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” In Luke 11:27 that random woman LITERALLY said Jesus your mother is Blessed, but are Lord Jesus LITERALLY said Believers are more Blessed than mary. Amen and Amen _________________________ CHRIST alone John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Acts 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus _________________________ Work of God = John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” _________________________ 1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach Paul allows bishops to get marry, but catholic church goes against paul. Now these catholic will give a Verses from 1 Corinthians7 to say that paul gave the advice to stay unmarried. But they will not tell you that the same chapter they quote says 1 Corinthians 7:28 "even if you do marry, you have not SINNED". The passage literally says "young women, young men" and a bishop is supposed to be a Church ELDER. Mic drop _________________________ Jesus said Matthew 23:9 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And also said Holy Father to Heavenly Father= John 17:11 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. Jesus said call no one Father but still catholics call *pope holy father. Sad _________________________ Whenever a catholic argue about mary being the mother of God Use this to defeat the argument. Luke 8:21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Matthew 12:46-50 46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. 47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.” 48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”. Mark 3:35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.” John 19:26-27 26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home. ( Jesus basically said John is the son of mary, and mary is the mother of John from that time onwards). By the way sarah is the mother of all proof=Galatians 4:21-26. _________________________ We should not pray to apostles Romans 1:25 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Acts 10:25-26 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.” Acts 14:15 15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them, Revelation 19:10 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” Revelation 22:8-9 8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God." Colossians 2:18 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, You cannot go to Father through saints nor mary, you can only go to the Father through Lord Jesus Christ= John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Ephesians 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. Holy Spirit intercedes for us=Romans 8:26 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And CHRIST as well=Romans 8:34 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Hebrews 7:25 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. It's Christ and Holy Spirit who intercedes for us not apostles _________________________ There is only one Mediator between God and men LORD Jesus Christ= 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus. Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Hebrew 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. Hebrew 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. _________________________ Apostles are allowed to marry, 1 Corinthians 9:1-5 1 Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 2 If I am not an apostle to others, yet doubtless I am to you. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord. 3 My defense to those who examine me is this: 4 Do we have no right to eat and drink? 5 Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas? If Peter (peter is cephas read John 1:42) the so called "first pope" was married, why does the catholic church doesn't allow "pope" to marry? _________________________ The so called vicar of christ/ pope/holy father Peter called himself a fellow elder in 1 Peter 5:1, and as per the qualifications of elder in Titus 1:5-9 the elder is allowed to get married; then why does the "pope" is required to be celibate and catholic? ( when Peter was neither celibate nor catholic). 1)Peter was not perfect human nor was he a perfect disciple 2)He sank down while walking on water 3)Our Lord said to peter get behind me satan 4)Peter reject our Lord 3 times 5)Our Lord rebuked Peter for calling fire from heaven 6)Our Lord rebuked Peter when he cut of the soilders ear 7)Paul rebuked Peter for being hypocrite because he was acting different in front of Jews and different in front of gentiles. 8) Moses messed up, and he was a important part of Bible ( that's why he never entered the promised land), 9)David messed up ( and he has the Holy Spirit), 10)King Soloman messed up, 11) Saul messed up and God regretted the decision (1 Samuel 15:10-11). Hatrick (Saul then David then Soloman back to back messed up) 12)The apostles run away a day before Lord Jesus got locked up. 13)The early church messed up Rev 2:18-20 If these great people could mess up, why do you think the catholic church wouldn't mess up. ____________________________________ Galatians 4:21-26 21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar- 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children- 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. Sarah is mother of all, Not mary. _________________________ Also the Church has many name like Christians, Evangelists, Children of God, Believers, servents of God, bride of Christ, but not once the Church is called catholics. _________________________ Also, if the apostles didn't wrote it, I don't want it

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

Me too. To keep them apart in my mind, I remember that the sane one is the one with a stuffed tiger as his friend.

[@joyceelmer131]

We had 2 cats named Calvin & Hobbes. Sadly Hobbes died. Calvin is still with us. So yes. I do too😊

[@mikebuckley46]

@@mynameis......23I just read everything you write and none of it debunks Catholicism Rather it strengthens Catholicism

[@TheOtherCaleb]

I already knew you were a Calvinist… I may disagree, but I still highly respect you. You are a man of God and a theologian worth your dollar!

[@justchilling704]

Same here 👍

[@ninjason57]

worth exactly 1 dollar.... haha Jk love you Gavin!

[@chrisa-95]

While I am not persuaded by Calvinism nor its compatibilism (I’m currently somewhere between Molinism and Reformed Arminianism at the moment), I just want to say how much I appreciate your humble charity towards non-Calvinist positions in this video. As a non-Calvinist myself, I am often frustrated with popular pastors and theologians I listen to (and learn from and enjoy I might add) as they strawman other positions and paint them in the worst light. Worse, many speak of non-Calvinists as though they are beneath them in intelligence/biblical literacy or “just hate God’s sovereignty” - which as you know is totally unfair. And trust me, I know Calvinists get painted uncharitably as well - I hate when both sides do this. Thank you so much for modeling the respect and humility that is required for doing theology and promoting unity in the church! Especially on an issue like this one! Edit: additionally, a good book on this topic is Dr. Kenneth Keathley’s ‘Salvation and Sovereignty’. That book gets the closest to where I am at currently in my thinking and I highly recommend it to others! (Unfortunately by editing this comment by recommending the book - KZbin removed Dr. Ortlund’s ❤️ on my comment. Shoot! That was a badge of honor. Lol)

[@doubtingthomas9117]

Hey-I’m Anglican and basically consider my position on the issue to be between Molinism and Reformed Arminianism as well. 👍🏻

[@kennylee6499]

Same here, though I have a great respect for Calvinism now

[@ooooooppppp11]

3 cheers for reformed arminianism!

[@Golfinthefamily]

For the reformed arminians, what do you think about Gavin's point about the difficulties that are still involved in your view...namely that God knows he is creating some people who will not inherit eternal life and he could not create them but does anyways... does this trouble you? and What do you guys do with Romans 9?

[@huntsman528]

@@Golfinthefamily Read The Potter's Promise. It hits Romans 9 really hard and is excellent. God knowing that we will sin does not mean that He authored it or willed it. I knew that my son would sin before I created him. I also know that he will have to make a choice to serve God or the world. Knowing this doesnt make me evil. God, on the other hand, knowing what we would do planned the sacrifice of himself for us for our sake. Calvinism doesn't make the origin of evil better, only worse.

[@ann.marie.b]

I so appreciate your candor and humility in presenting this topic. As a non Calvinist I agree so much that we are all on the same team and it's an honor to be sharpened by and link arms with those of different views. Would love to see you and Leighton Flowers discuss this topic sometime! I think both of your kind spirits would make for a very productive conversation. Thank you for what you do!

[@toughbiblepassages9082]

It’s very frustrating to watch Leighton consistently portray Calvinists as people who believe that God pro-actively causes humans to sin.

[@bencausey]

@@toughbiblepassages9082 There are many leading, popular Calvinists who do think exactly that (ex Piper). Also, even you don’t say that at surface level, Flowers argues that it’s a logical conclusion.

[@lauromartinez8948]

@@toughbiblepassages9082 that is the logical conclusion of Calvinism. - God determines everything that happens. -Human sin happens - Therefore God determined Human Sin. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@TheChristianNationalist8692]

@@lauromartinez8948 Excellent, it is really just that simple: laying it out like you have makes it impossible to deny. God rest

[@adriannelea1]

⁠​⁠@@TheChristianNationalist8692it’s not impossible to deny if you deny the first claim that God determines everything that happens. God makes it abundantly clear in Jeremiah 7:31 that He doesn’t determine evil when He says, “And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, 👉which I did not command, 👉👉nor did it come into my mind.” Also John’s statement by the Holy Spirit in 1 John 1:5, “This is the message we have heard from Him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and 👉in Him is no darkness at all.” God cannot author evil of evil is not within Him. Evil is the consequence of free-will choices of imperfect beings when they’re not relying on God. God may allow evil to play out to certain degrees, but He absolutely isn’t the cause or determiner of evil by His own words.

[@SCOTTISHSOULFOOD1]

I appreciate the well argued, coherent defence of Calvinism. As a Wesleyan/ Arminian I appreciate the presentation but am not convinced by it. however it would be good if both sides of the argument follow your example and we don't attack strawmen presentations of the other side or make overly forthright and strident presentations of our own side

[@jr7403]

I'm not a big fan of debates, but it would be interesting to see a dialogue between you and Soteriology 101 on the channel! Excellent video as always

[@mitchellscott1843]

Second this!

[@DelicueMusic]

Yes, I feel like Leighton is one of the few people who can keep up in this conversation AND be friendly toward his opposers.

[@mattc2966]

Yesss! would love to see a dialogue between these two.

[@loganwillett2835]

Yes please!! Two of my favorite Christian content creators having a discussion on a topic I’ve obsessed over for two years! Need it

[@zekdom]

Yup. Leighton Flowers is one of the best opponents of Calvinism, and he actually keeps up with what Calvinist arguments entail. He doesn’t ignore the heavy hitters. I remember watching him review a sermon/presentation by a Calvinist expert (academic or scholar, I think).

[@khumbomunsaka]

For me I attend a reformed baptist church. But they lost me at limited atonement. That I reject 100% But I have learned to live in peace and respect with them.

[@HiHoSilvey]

I think I can see both sides of the limited atonement debate. I understand it at one level because only the elect will be saved so you might say that atonement was limited to the elect. but I have no problem with unlimited atonement either. A Reformed pastor once told me that Calvin himself did not believe in limited atonement. I will have to do some research on that.

[@nathancjarrett]

I recently heard Pastor Orton describe the goal of all believers is to try to learn what the original teachings of Jesus and the Apostles were, and to eliminate historical accretions. I think this is a good reason to affirm Protestantism. But as a former Calvinist, I would say that Calvinistic theology is an historical accretion found within Protestantism. It's roots only go back to Augustine of Hippo. Prior to the 4th century the distinct ways that Calvinists handle scripture were not found in any of the writings of the Church fathers, including those who were contemporaries of the Apostles. There are a few alternatives that better handle the 'both-and' verses Pastor Ortlund listed here other that the non-free free will of compatibilism. Whether you appeal to Molinism, Provisionism, or classical Arminianism you can read those verses without endorsing exhaustive divine determinism. And I would assert that any of these approaches does a better job at getting us closer to what the earliest Christians believed.

[@hobbes6616]

One of the difficulties I have with Calvinism is that it seems to depart from the mainstream of patristic thought (outside of Augustine). For example, I came across this quote from John of Damascus On The Orthodox Faith ch. 44, "One needs to know that although God has foreknowledge of all things, he does not predetermine all things, for he has foreknowledge of what what depends upon us, but he did not predetermine it." John is then quick to assert the necessity for God's grace in human virtue. But is this not more in line with what we conceive today as classic arminianism? What role should church history play in helping us come to theological conclusions on these issues. Many Calvinists present the logic for calvinism as a logical conclusion of reading Romans 9 or Ephesians 1. But is that is true, why is this not the mainstream view much earlier in church history?

[@zemotheon12987]

Calvin is usually pretty good with quoting fathers to support his claims, however in this one area he is absolutely terrible. He cites Augustine and then states point blank that the fathers universally agree with him.

[@chadsteven9334]

Clement 1 has a lot of quotes that sound very mainstream Calvinist, but of course, none of the fathers are ever on the same page. Most of them had Platonic thought, which is determinist. Acts 4 seems to show how the people of that day viewed God’s sovereignty . Of course, like many things, it’s a complicated issue.

[@brentonstanfield5198]

I would say that all Christians throughout history have struggled to understand man’s role within God’s overall Providence. In my view, Calvinism is really just a deep and serious extension of Providence which has always been believed by the Church.

[@heathers4961]

🎯 Amen. Because heresies and false gospels crept in later. Jesus didn't tolerate false teaching. Neither did his apostles. Paul had no compunction about calling people adulterers, or warning against even a little leaven, or handing over someone to satan for a time for discipline. Jesus said to shake the dust off your feet. Today, Christians want to give public platforms and have open debates with unbelievers. If Paul walked into churches today he would be run out of town and seen as "hateful" and "divisive."

[@UnbaptizedInfantsGoToHell]

@@zemotheon12987 Calvin doesn’t say that whatsoever. He admits that only Augustine got it right and that the other fathers were generally confused

[@MS-pw6jx]

Great video pastor Ortlund. I’m currently attending a Lutheran congregation as I explore my theological understanding, and I really do appreciate your advice to strive for peaceful and respectful dialogue. My ability to genuinely and humbly look into what every denomination believes has been made so much easier by accepting that these other Christians simply DO believe strongly what they believe. This way, I’m able to say “alright, I get you believe that, I’m not sure I do, can you tell me WHY” God bless, hope you and your family have a blessed Easter

[@Jeremy.Mathetes]

First comment on a Gavin Ortlund video. My claim to fame!! 😁 But seriously, thank you Dr. Ortlund for the consistent, clear, and gracious content. You’re an inspiration to me as a Christian and student of history. Thank you for all the time you spend on these videos! Edit: I guess I was the second comment… dang it! I’ll be first next time 😂

[@mynameis......23]

Debunking catholicism I'm more blessed than mary Proof = Luke 11:27-28 27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!” 28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” In Luke 11:27 that random woman LITERALLY said Jesus your mother is Blessed, but are Lord Jesus LITERALLY said Believers are more Blessed than mary. Amen and Amen _________________________ CHRIST alone John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Acts 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus _________________________ Work of God = John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” _________________________ 1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach Paul allows bishops to get marry, but catholic church goes against paul. Now these catholic will give a Verses from 1 Corinthians7 to say that paul gave the advice to stay unmarried. But they will not tell you that the same chapter they quote says 1 Corinthians 7:28 "even if you do marry, you have not SINNED". The passage literally says "young women, young men" and a bishop is supposed to be a Church ELDER. Mic drop _________________________ Jesus said Matthew 23:9 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And also said Holy Father to Heavenly Father= John 17:11 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. Jesus said call no one Father but still catholics call *pope holy father. Sad _________________________ Whenever a catholic argue about mary being the mother of God Use this to defeat the argument. Luke 8:21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Matthew 12:46-50 46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. 47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.” 48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”. Mark 3:35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.” John 19:26-27 26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home. ( Jesus basically said John is the son of mary, and mary is the mother of John from that time onwards). By the way sarah is the mother of all proof=Galatians 4:21-26. _________________________ We should not pray to apostles Romans 1:25 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Acts 10:25-26 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.” Acts 14:15 15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them, Revelation 19:10 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” Revelation 22:8-9 8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God." Colossians 2:18 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, You cannot go to Father through saints nor mary, you can only go to the Father through Lord Jesus Christ= John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Ephesians 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. Holy Spirit intercedes for us=Romans 8:26 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And CHRIST as well=Romans 8:34 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Hebrews 7:25 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. It's Christ and Holy Spirit who intercedes for us not apostles _________________________ There is only one Mediator between God and men LORD Jesus Christ= 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus. Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Hebrew 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. Hebrew 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. _________________________ Apostles are allowed to marry, 1 Corinthians 9:1-5 1 Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 2 If I am not an apostle to others, yet doubtless I am to you. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord. 3 My defense to those who examine me is this: 4 Do we have no right to eat and drink? 5 Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas? If Peter (peter is cephas read John 1:42) the so called "first pope" was married, why does the catholic church doesn't allow "pope" to marry? _________________________ The so called vicar of christ/ pope/holy father Peter called himself a fellow elder in 1 Peter 5:1, and as per the qualifications of elder in Titus 1:5-9 the elder is allowed to get married; then why does the "pope" is required to be celibate and catholic? ( when Peter was neither celibate nor catholic). 1)Peter was not perfect human nor was he a perfect disciple 2)He sank down while walking on water 3)Our Lord said to peter get behind me satan 4)Peter reject our Lord 3 times 5)Our Lord rebuked Peter for calling fire from heaven 6)Our Lord rebuked Peter when he cut of the soilders ear 7)Paul rebuked Peter for being hypocrite because he was acting different in front of Jews and different in front of gentiles. 8) Moses messed up, and he was a important part of Bible ( that's why he never entered the promised land), 9)David messed up ( and he has the Holy Spirit), 10)King Soloman messed up, 11) Saul messed up and God regretted the decision (1 Samuel 15:10-11). Hatrick (Saul then David then Soloman back to back messed up) 12)The apostles run away a day before Lord Jesus got locked up. 13)The early church messed up Rev 2:18-20 If these great people could mess up, why do you think the catholic church wouldn't mess up. ____________________________________ Galatians 4:21-26 21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar- 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children- 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. Sarah is mother of all, Not mary. _________________________ Also the Church has many name like Christians, Evangelists, Children of God, Believers, servents of God, bride of Christ, but not once the Church is called catholics. _________________________ Also, if the apostles didn't wrote it, I don't want it...

[@Shkk]

As a non-christian who is currently reading about Christianity I feel that predestination is the most problematic part of the Christian faith ( reformed denominations ). I feel that it makes God less merciful. A God who is ocean of mercy would want each and everyone to be saved and not just elect few people.

[@BarryPeters5]

Gavin, I'd really like to dialogue personally. My thoughts (greatly condensed): 1) Most non-Calvinists would love to "have mutual peace and understanding with Calvinists". But nearly everytime we've tried this the Calvinists label us as liberal believers at best, enemies of the gospel at worst. We appreciate your work in aiming to change this! 2) I believe that, in hopes for unity, you are softening Calvinism. Calvinism is soteriological determinism from T to P...with a postscript in tiny font: "but man is responsible for all his decisions". Saying that Calvinism is 100% God and 100% free will seems disingenuous. 3) In the same vein as #2, I'd assert that you are changing the meaning of Unconditional Election. Most non-calvinists would agree with TULIP as a general term, but deny each point once we learn its technical description. UE's technical definition includes the belief that saving faith is a salvific work and therefore must be done by God; this is what non-calvinists would deny.

[@ben.s.harper89]

If Calvinism were true, specifically unconditional election could you do a video on why evangelism is important?

[@SaltyApologist]

The most important reason is the Jesus tells us to do it. Also, since God decrees the ends and the means, nobody knows who the elect is. It’s the same issue with any evangelicalism, nobody knows who the elect are, whether it’s through autonomous free will or God’s choice. It is our job to proclaim the gospel and the elect are up to God. Calvinism simply elevates God to his rightful place, the creator and controller of all things. We also choose to affirm the biblical definition of free will, the fact that men will freely choose what they desire most and without God, men are dead in their sins and are in rebellion from God. Men freely choose what they desire and God is in control of all things

[@MateusPicolli]

Simple: We do not know who is the elected, so we must preach so they can hear it.

[@gracemercywrath8767]

Good video. As a former Calvinist, I found a lot of the “both-and” paradox drops off as a provisionist. You can hold to God's sovereignty and his working through things and not be a Calvinist. Blessings. I'm looking forward to watching your debt.

[@jamesedwards.1069]

Even the Roman Catholic GK Chesterton says the truth is often paradoxical, and he was a rabid anti-Calvinist. And, really, how can you not be a Calvinist if you hold to God's sovereignty and His "working through things" if that's what Calvinism is? Jesus said that there was none good but God. That means Jesus was a Calvinist. Or, more to the point here, Calvin was a Jesus-ist.

[@brentonstanfield5198]

Love the video and your heart. The Whitfield quote at the end was perfect. As a Calvinist I have learned from and grown under the teaching of some great non-Calvinists. God’s Spirit is at work in both. Although, I think think it is also good to point out that there are both Calvinists and non-Calvinists who hold to their views for purposes of self-justification. The Calvinist feeling self-approved because of their self perceived intellectual superiority. Meanwhile, the non-Calvinist feeling that what separates them from the lost is their own libertarian free will and not the grace of God. My disdain is for the heart with which many hold to their views.

[@Golfinthefamily]

"Give me Ravenhill over 10 dead calvinists"- Paul Washer... I'm thankful for all those who desire to follow Christ and convict me to repentance and holiness and God's grace

[@ethanrichard4950]

Actually, despite our free will, we're all sinners and despite our repentance and humbling through faith, God responds to that freely by forgiving us, in accordance to the parameters of salvation that he set up.

[@yankeegonesouth4973]

As more of a classical Arminian by choice, I really appreciate this video. I used to despise the Calvinist view when I was much more immature in the faith. I may disagree with your theological conclusions, but must agree entirely with the humility with which you approach them. Thank you for being such an example of how to handle these questions, Dr Ortlund! Now I'm off to find my 25 year old self to show him this video. ~

[@ShepherdMinistry]

Hey brother, I come across many who have much hate towards Calvinism, could you share why you despised it so much in the beginning? God bless

[@MyLifeShortFilms]

I AM SO THANKFUL TO THE LORD I FOUND YOUR CHANNEL!!! Praise the LORD!!

[@TruthUnites]

glad its of use to you!

[@jacobroel]

Soteriology 101 dialogue plz make it happen!

[@matthewkay1327]

Bump

[@aheadofmetal]

Bump

[@sonicgeeksquad4g106]

Bump

[@daMillenialTrucker]

Pumpkin

[@sonicgeeksquad4g106]

@@daMillenialTrucker fraternity

[@anglicanaesthetics]

love this. Solid brother! I love how you bring in the historic definitions of freedom as non external coercion. Thats the mystery! As a Reformed Anglican (I feel like we're a dying breed), I give this a hearty amen!

[@Particularly_John_Gill]

Ohh boy. A lot of people do not like Calvinism and will definitely be upset to see you are a Calvinist. I’m excited for more videos on Calvinism though.

[@Golfinthefamily]

I'm thankful to have Gavin put a wrench in people's stereotypes of calvinists and maybe take down some roadblocks that keep them from considering it.

[@mynameis......23]

Debunking catholicism I'm more blessed than mary Proof = Luke 11:27-28 27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!” 28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” In Luke 11:27 that random woman LITERALLY said Jesus your mother is Blessed, but are Lord Jesus LITERALLY said Believers are more Blessed than mary. Amen and Amen _________________________ CHRIST alone John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Acts 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus _________________________ Work of God = John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” _________________________ 1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach Paul allows bishops to get marry, but catholic church goes against paul. Now these catholic will give a Verses from 1 Corinthians7 to say that paul gave the advice to stay unmarried. But they will not tell you that the same chapter they quote says 1 Corinthians 7:28 "even if you do marry, you have not SINNED". The passage literally says "young women, young men" and a bishop is supposed to be a Church ELDER. Mic drop _________________________ Jesus said Matthew 23:9 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And also said Holy Father to Heavenly Father= John 17:11 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. Jesus said call no one Father but still catholics call *pope holy father. Sad _________________________ Whenever a catholic argue about mary being the mother of God Use this to defeat the argument. Luke 8:21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Matthew 12:46-50 46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. 47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.” 48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”. Mark 3:35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.” John 19:26-27 26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home. ( Jesus basically said John is the son of mary, and mary is the mother of John from that time onwards). By the way sarah is the mother of all proof=Galatians 4:21-26. _________________________ We should not pray to apostles Romans 1:25 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Acts 10:25-26 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.” Acts 14:15 15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them, Revelation 19:10 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” Revelation 22:8-9 8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God." Colossians 2:18 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, You cannot go to Father through saints nor mary, you can only go to the Father through Lord Jesus Christ= John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Ephesians 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. Holy Spirit intercedes for us=Romans 8:26 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And CHRIST as well=Romans 8:34 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Hebrews 7:25 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. It's Christ and Holy Spirit who intercedes for us not apostles _________________________ There is only one Mediator between God and men LORD Jesus Christ= 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus. Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Hebrew 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. Hebrew 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. _________________________ Apostles are allowed to marry, 1 Corinthians 9:1-5 1 Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 2 If I am not an apostle to others, yet doubtless I am to you. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord. 3 My defense to those who examine me is this: 4 Do we have no right to eat and drink? 5 Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas? If Peter (peter is cephas read John 1:42) the so called "first pope" was married, why does the catholic church doesn't allow "pope" to marry? _________________________ The so called vicar of christ/ pope/holy father Peter called himself a fellow elder in 1 Peter 5:1, and as per the qualifications of elder in Titus 1:5-9 the elder is allowed to get married; then why does the "pope" is required to be celibate and catholic? ( when Peter was neither celibate nor catholic). 1)Peter was not perfect human nor was he a perfect disciple 2)He sank down while walking on water 3)Our Lord said to peter get behind me satan 4)Peter reject our Lord 3 times 5)Our Lord rebuked Peter for calling fire from heaven 6)Our Lord rebuked Peter when he cut of the soilders ear 7)Paul rebuked Peter for being hypocrite because he was acting different in front of Jews and different in front of gentiles. 8) Moses messed up, and he was a important part of Bible ( that's why he never entered the promised land), 9)David messed up ( and he has the Holy Spirit), 10)King Soloman messed up, 11) Saul messed up and God regretted the decision (1 Samuel 15:10-11). Hatrick (Saul then David then Soloman back to back messed up) 12)The apostles run away a day before Lord Jesus got locked up. 13)The early church messed up Rev 2:18-20 If these great people could mess up, why do you think the catholic church wouldn't mess up. ____________________________________ Galatians 4:21-26 21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar- 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children- 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. Sarah is mother of all, Not mary. _________________________ Also the Church has many name like Christians, Evangelists, Children of God, Believers, servents of God, bride of Christ, but not once the Church is called catholics. _________________________ Also, if the apostles didn't wrote it, I don't want it...

[@thomasc9036]

Funny that Lutheran Reformation, Swiss Reformation, and English Reformation all started with the Predestination/Election concept. It's the Protestantism's original view, but disdained by so many ungrateful Protestants

[@Particularly_John_Gill]

@@thomasc9036 Looking from a 21st century lense it would seem that in many ways Radical Reformation ended up being the predominant view today in comparison to the Magisterial Reformers.

[@thomasc9036]

@@Particularly_John_Gill If you are referring to like Anabaptists, I doubt early Radical Reformation had any comprehensive theology. They were more concerned with what is not than what is. They were mostly concerned with living a separate communal lives than theological treatises, imho.

[@coolmuso6108]

Although I’m not 100% sure where I stand on these issues yet, it’s interesting how many people start to froth at the mouth whenever Calvinism is mentioned.

[@exysness]

I'm one of them. Hate the idea of it.

[@emilesturt3377]

It's because it's an atrocious interpretive system. Look at John of Damascus' view on Providence... which shows the balanced Orthodox view : )

[@Polarbeardueck]

My pastor quoted what Whitefield said about Wesley probably about 12 years ago, that quote has stuck with me. I never remembered where the quote originated, thanks for bring my pastors memorable sermon into my memory and thanks for the great content

[@pontificusmaximus6716]

4:30 Compatibilism: This quote by David Engelsma, a Calvinist theologian, applies both to Compatibilism and to the topic he is directly addressing: "...that God is gracious only to some in predestination, but gracious to all in the gospel, and that God wills only some to be saved in predestination but wills all to be saved by the gospel, is flat, irreconcilable contradiction. It is not paradox, but contradiction. I speak reverently: God Himself cannot reconcile these teachings." --David Engelsma, quoted on Calvinists who retreat to "mystery" Compatibilism is flat, irreconcilable contradiction.

[@jumbalaya6531]

Thank you so much for this video. I’m not a Calvinist and while I have always seen Calvinists as brothers and sisters in Christ, part of me still cringed when the topic came up. But listening to your video helped me see the unnecessary division that had formed in my heart towards Calvinists. I’m happy I can now see what’s going on in my heart and put those feelings of division to death. God bless bro, will continue to support your content

[@Matty-Boy]

Thanks for making this video Dr Ortlund! I consider myself squarely in the Arminian camp, though between you and other online pastors I've grown a lot warmer to Calvinism in practice (that is, the way we process and understand our nature's and God's and the interplay aren't as different as I thought.) In particular, the way you distinguished the unconditional election component was really interesting, because I had never heard it explained that way before. I ought to look more into that area, because predestination, foreknowledge, and sovereign decrees are all still jumbled together in my head and I'd like to be able to parse them out, mentally and verbally.

[@SincerelyHannah9]

I was raised in an Arminian tradition but became more reformed after listening to so many reformed pastors and teachers. I was never taught much of Calvinism growing up so I was reluctant to accept it as a legitimate system of theology, but I also couldn’t reject it after reading verses like “no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44) or “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before Him” (Ephesians 1:4) and even “and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed” (acts 13:48). People are so quick to dismiss Calvinism as insane, but I’m more than willing to learn more about it because it can’t be a coincidence that all of my favorite teachers are reformed! They tend to be the most theologically conservative and orthodox which is why I prefer Calvinist teachers even if I wouldn’t call myself one

[@waterdrinkerrr]

I agree with you. Calvinist teachers are more consistently doctrinally solid. Plus, I feel like it doesn't even come up that much in sermons and teachings.

[@kruton9000]

Watch Soteriology 101

[@Keylime_Pi3]

As a Calvinist this really was a blessing. It’s good to see Calvinism defended with humility, too often those in our theological camp are so arrogant and I can be too, and I truly don’t understand why we do this. I’m thankful for my non-Calvinist brother’s and sisters, I pray we can be United on the most important issues and have friendly dialogue about other important issues.

[@christinalafferty6073]

Thank you for this comment. I was always super put off by Calvinism and Calvinists because the first ones I came into contact with came across as either arrogant or just unwilling to hear another side. Lately I've been realizing that because of how put off I've been by Calvinism, I've created my own little crusade to tear it down! Lol, so doing exactly what I've always been frustrated at the Calvinist side for doing. It's interesting how that happens. It (for me) comes down to pride of course, and not putting God before my beliefs. Anyways, like I said, thank you for your comment, because that humility is refreshing, and it's something I need as well!

[@gideondavid30]

@@christinalafferty6073 Calvinism is just nonsensical. I am not sure it is harmful if taught, but to me it is self evidently untrue. In my opinion, its just the case of clever theologians overthinking a passage of scripture to violate basic common sense of how human beings operate.

[@christinalafferty6073]

@@gideondavid30 I'm not saying you're wrong or right on that, I'm just thanking this person for their humility in this comment, and commenting on my personal journey. I'm not a fan of Calvinism, particularly certain aspects, but my personal attempt to prove Calvinists wrong all the time comes from me being rigid, and that's something for me to work on. I need humility just as much as the first Calvinist I encountered did. Even if I am having a conversation about why I disagree with them.

[@gideondavid30]

@@christinalafferty6073 Sure humility is always important. I just feel like I am being punked when people try to articulate this doctrine... Very intelligent people with a straight face insist that this is how God's sovereignty operates.

[@christinalafferty6073]

@@gideondavid30 that's totally fair. I'm with you on that. I have had conversations with family who lean Calvinist and one of them made a point to keep making sure I knew that God was right in everything He does. Which I absolutely agree with!! But I had trouble trying to articulate why I still don't agree with Calvinism lol. It's frustrating. What frustrates me the most is misrepresentation of the non-calvinist side. If I feel like I'm not being misrepresented, I think that it can at least be a decent conversation.

[@jotink1]

Thankyou Dr Ortlund for this gracious perspective on Calvinism. I pretty much agreed with all you said and I wouldn't call myself a Calvinist. I totally agree we should not show contempt for those who hold a different position. Each view is not the others enemy and therefore we should not hold the people as such.

[@wisewoman4950]

Same!

[@TheLiterateLyoness]

I would like to hear you dialogue with Mike Winger on this topic. I'm confused by his description of Calvinism.

[@natebozeman4510]

Hey Gavin, love this video and your approach to being charitable. I'm a Molinist, and I personally would consider myself an incompatibilist. I don't see compatibilism as coherent. I think your response to that is interesting. "God interacts with the world in a distinct manner than any other entity" or something along those lines. I could see that being the case, even if I still think my intuitions disagree. My intuition still can't reconcile the two. But I really enjoyed the video!

[@elijahmorris9864]

As non-Calvinist I appreciate your approach to the topic. Something I want to say about your quotes is that CS Lewis was a non-Calvinist, who was in fact very anti-Calvinism. I appreciate the your argument and perspective, I don’t see how it can be both and, on this issue. I think are better ways to understand the Bible that don’t come to Calvinism as the conclusion.

[@Cyberbizbuddy]

Hey Gavin...Thanks for the work you put into these videos as I continue on my journey to grow as I learn from men like you that are inspired by the Holy Spirit to put forth these thought provoking answers to questions I didn't even know I had. I never considered myself to be a Calvinist, but what you explained in this video makes a lot of sense to me and I tend to be in total agreement with you. thanks for the work you are doing.

[@Kratos92607]

Hey Dr. Ortlund, love your work. You're correct, I was completely shocked to find that you are a Calvinist. Would you be willing to reach out to Dr. Leighton Flowers for a discussion on this subject? I don't affirm Calvinism personally, but I would be very interested to see if you are able to help unpack the issues further, in combination with some of Dr. Flowers thoughts on the subject. Thanks for what you do Dr. Ortlund.

[@boddodson3193]

I really appreciate how you approached this topic. As you mentioned briefly, my experience with Calvinists is typically accompanied by arrogance and superiority. That’s not to say I haven’t heard non-Calvinists make arrogant arguments as well, but they typically come from the Calvinist side. Thank you for making your case in a respectful way that shows the challenges on both sides. I look forward to hearing more from you on this topic!

[@brentonstanfield5198]

Gavin does it right. Calvinism should induce in each of us a deep humility as we come to realize just how profoundly gracious God has been to us and how much we depend on Him. But unfortunately as many people begin to “figure it out”, the “knowledge puffs up” until it really “sinks in”.

[@morghe321]

Why do you think that is? Why are many of them arrogant and act superior? Is it the fruits of Calvinism?

[@boddodson3193]

@@morghe321 that’s a good question. In all fairness, most Calvinists I know come from a highly-educated backgrounds, which may make some feel superior. Others I know come from Presbyterian churches that have exceptional hierarchal rigor in defining “correct” teaching from the pulpit, which naturally gives the impression their church has exclusive claim on correct doctrine. So I would say arrogance and superiority are not a “fruit” of Calvinism, but rather an associated temptation that we need to be aware of. Anyone who studies much can easily fall into the trap of pride (myself included).

[@morghe321]

@Bod Dodson, thanks for your reply. Do highly educated people act superior though? Well, I guess they do, to an extent, as humans are what they are. But Christians certainly shouldn't act that way. But if it's because they're highly educated, we would assume the same phenomenon applies to other denominations, like, say Lutherans, Methodists, or Pentecostals as well. Or do Calvinists generally have a higher education than those of other denominations? Funny, I can't recall anyone complaining about Pentecostals acting superior or arrogant. I'm not Pentecostal myself, so I'm not boasting here, lol, just an observation.

[@dominusalicorn3684]

Glad to see you do a brief overview on the topic. I'm not a Calvinist myself, but I'm looking forward to your longer video... If/when you get to it, of course!

[@vedinthorn]

Ive never thought it was crazy. Its just based on Augustine's understanding of romans which was wrong.

[@unavailableChalala]

Solid criticism

[@joepugh678]

I didn't know you were a Calvinist, you sounded so reasonable on the other video I saw (pause for laughter). To be serious, I love your honesty and lack of rancor.

[@h00sha]

Huge respect for Dr. Outland for putting his own beliefs out there so clearly. At the end of the day, however, the “both”/“and” defence is utterly nonsensical. Compatibilism is determinism. Why not just say determinism and get on with it? Why do calvinists always feel like they have to make an accommodation of some kind for free will? If God has created us a certain way, such that we ALWAYS ‘choose’ in accordance with the nature that god has given us, then say that. It’s ok to reject free will. But these theological acrobatics only muddy the waters for those who are seeking a tradition that will help them on their faith journey. For the record, I 100% accept the notion of libertarian free will based on what I see in scripture and see no resulting infringement on God’s sovereignty. There are obviously other major concerns with Calvinism, but I’ll leave it at that for now. Thanks again, Gavin, for your thoughtfulness. May you be blessed 😊

[@abelburke]

Love how Gavin continually provides a perspective of grace towards both sides!

[@pigetstuck]

This is the first time I have heard Calvinism explained with humility and mystery. Based on this description, I think I might actually be a Calvinist! But I do struggle with that title... I don't want to associate my identity with Calvin (or any other church figure besides Christ). You mentioned that we must content for the truth; do we have to contend for all truths? If not, which truths do we need to contend for?

[@Golfinthefamily]

Yes, I struggle with titles too... I don't think God is particularly excited to be categorized using one of his own creations' names... but it's just the most practical place to get to brass tacks... or I guess you could say reformed..but that isn't as clear.

[@Gondor149]

I think doctrines of grace is another term

[@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou]

@@Golfinthefamily why do you think God would care if a certain set of beliefs corresponding to how it works is labeled as a person’s name?

[@godslittleman5451]

I became a Calvinist by memorizing scripture, especially, but not solely, Romans 9 through 11.

[@anthonywhitney634]

Thankyou for being a gracious Calvinist! I do feel though that you softened Calvin's own description of his Soteriology. I would be interested to hear you chat with Leighton Flowers on this subject.

[@optimisticbear9617]

The Fathers were much more coherent and in agreement than Christians are today, and no denomination today is fully in agreement with the Fathers on the main theological issues.

[@markrome9702]

I suggest searching for and reading the article How John Calvin Made Me Catholic by Dr. David Anders of Called to Communion. In fact, I'd like to see a dialog between David Anders and Gavin Ortlund.

[@robharris7696]

As Hugh Ross wrote & says: it IS both-and; for a being, God, who is beyond our universe & transcendent, both can simultaneously be true. Like how Christ can be both %100 God & Man, or the Trinity is three yet one, free will & predestination can both be true; in the context of multi- dimensions. God can move & operate on multiple timelines.

[@peterbengtsson]

Thanks Gavin! Heartfelt ending! I say like many others, I don't agree with Calvinism, but the video was humbling. Christ love! ✝️

[@Melissa-ju1pm]

Is it possible, in reference to Augustine’s quote regarding John 15:16, the idea of choosing for salvation vs. appointing as apostles to bear fruit are conflated? Is this passage referring to salvation?

[@toddvoss52]

I have always found the saying : “God writes straight with our crooked lines” to be helpful when I think about Divine Providence . It’s not a solution but it shifts me into a different framework.

[@dominiclapinta8537]

If everything is as God decreed, shouldn't Calvinists praise God for the wars between hamas and Israel? The women and the children becoming victim of the hamas attacks? Reading through the Bible for years and things like these are why I would never become a Calvinist.

[@coreytownsley7606]

I’d love a video on the definitive biblical passages for you regarding Calvinism. You mentioned of course Romans 9, but maybe your top 5?

[@smalliehound]

Provisionism-God provides everything needed for salvation. We choose. I appreciate your humility and grace. Would all sides of these issues dig deep and display such fruit. Thanks, brother.

[@Jennifer13515]

Yes yes yes! God loves us so much and has provided everything we need to be saved! No pre-determination! He’s died for the CATEGORY of sin. We just take his hand and put our faith in what he’s done!

[@that_sun_guy6527]

For those of you who do not know, in the comic, Calvin and Hobbes, the two main characters are named after John Calvin and Thomas Hobbes, respectively. What did the two have in common? They both believed in the total depravity of man!

[@justinpfrunder5951]

Hi. I have been watching these debates for years and have grieved the demonisation that many of the debates engender from either side... in my experience I have seen more armiamnian demonisation of Calvinists and then Calvinists trying to defend it. I'm appreciative of your steps to promote peace and understanding between two (often very similar without realizing) viewpoints within Christianity.

[@craigbennett8053]

Good video. I used to be a Calvinist but changed slowly over time. My number one sticking point was that for Calvinism to be true, then faith has to be a work. But many of my best friends are still Calvinists. Thanks again for the video.

[@addjoaprekobaah5914]

If faith is work, Calvinism would not be true. We argue that faith is not work that earns you salvation, but rather a result of God's effectual call.

[@jonathanw1106]

​@addjoaprekobaah5914 also faith by definition is not a work so I'm not sure why this comes up in discussions. We are commanded to believe in Jesus for salvation as its only prerequisite, it cannot be a work in the ephesians 2 sense

[@benmeitzen4184]

I love this biblical teaching! It’s so clear all over Paul’s writings and throughout John.

[@Eloign]

I love your channel and your heart but can't help it brother, here are some thoughts on what you said... 1. If Calvinism is true your assurance rests on your own assessment of your internal feelings. There's no objective assurance that Christ died for you since He didn't die for the whole world. 2. Calvin taught Evanescent Grace which means God would allow some people to receive assurance and then later take it away and doubly damn them. He did this to explain apostasy. 3. There is no "human responsibility" side of the equation because humans cannot respond to God in that system. They reduce human nature to animal nature even in their analogies ie. "A lion always wants to eat meat because that's his nature" etc. It's literally dehumanizing. People do what God decreed that they should infallibly do. God decides if they have a nature that cannot respond or if He would grant them regeneration (before faith!) so that they can have faith, repent and believe. 4. The word "mystery" is used here as a synonym for contradiction. The Bible never uses mystery in this sense. Look it up. 5. Physical phenomenon and moral choices are not equivalent. That's materialism. 6. Romans 9 has nothing to do with individual salvation. I have no idea how it's even possible to interpret it that way without ignoring all the references Paul is making and the summary he gives of his entire point at the end of the chapter. 7. God is not "working through sinful activities of human beings" He is redeeming them or to put it in plainer terms, outsmarting them. 8. Lewis was emphatically not a Calvinist and wrote against it, so using his statement in Perelandra as an example is specious. His point is surrender to God feels inevitable not that it is. 9. Augustine is wrenching Jesus choice of the Apostles for their jobs out of context to mean He chooses individuals for salvation or damnation. Election is God's choice of a person for a purpose which they may accept or reject. Paul said " I was not disobedient to the Heavenly vision" Guess what? Nebuchadnezzar did disobey the Heavenly vision given him. 10. The problem is Calvinism makes God the author of sin, it just does. At least the other views make man truly responsible for his damnation. 11. The book analogy fails because the characters in the book are NOT made in the image of the author. They do not posses any of His communicable attributes at all. They are not real. Not even to themselves. 12. I totally agree you can disagree with a doctrine and even find it's implications horrible and yet LOVE your friends and brothers that believe those things. We are not saved by theological perfection but by the Person of Christ.

[@sooner1867]

It's interesting that early on in his video Mr. Ortlund claims that people are surprised to learn that he is a follower of Calvin allegedly due to his humility then he goes on to claim that most "people just do not understand calvinism". Could he make a more arrogant statement? He implies that If we understood calvinism we we would all agree with it. I throughly understand calvinism and I know that it is not Biblical.

[@zekdom]

Soteriology… it’s been a while since I’ve explored the TULIP and predestination. I’ve watched a lot of Leighton Flowers on one side, James White on the other. In the midst of these discussions, there was one comment that I didn’t totally understand at the time; it said something to the effect of, “I’m an Arminian on Mondays, Calvinist on Tuesdays.” Now, I understand exactly what that comment meant. I find myself disagreeing with Perseverance of the Saints and Irresistible Grace on one day but, on another, I find the plain reading of Ephesians 1 and the mountain of proof-texts used by Calvinists to be overwhelming. Often times, in the grand discussion of predestination and God’s sovereignty, I’ve noticed that Calvinists tend to have the plain reading of many passages in their favor; it’s like Calvinists occupy the high ground, which is why Calvinism is so robust and difficult to debate. You have to bring your A-game to debate a Calvinist. And much to my dismay, Provisionist and Arminian explanations of Calvinist proof-texts often seem longer and more… gymnastic and forced. At the moment, I’m not terribly confident in libertarian free-will, but I’m not convinced of limited atonement either. Much to my surprise, I feel better studying Christology and the Trinity in light of objections to sharpen my confidence. So far, I’m having a blast. Giving to Christ, exaltation, human and divine nature, omniscience, divine attributes overall, etc. Sam Shamoun, Luke Wayne, Matt Slick, and Mike Winger have helped me a lot. I think I’ll be sticking around in the Trinity realm of discussion for the time being. But I hope that when I return to the more advanced points of soteriology, I’ll have a clear eye.

[@Golfinthefamily]

yes, the plain reading of Romans 9 is pretty hard to see any other way... even if you move toward a more national stance on Jacob and Esau... it's still the choosing of one nation over another... it doesn't really resolve the "problem"

[@zekdom]

@@Golfinthefamily Exactly ^^ Your comment on Romans 9 reminds me of what Mike Winger said about corporate election (the context may have been about Ephesians 1). If I recall correctly, Mike said… can the individual be removed from the corporate? The corporate is made of individuals, so corporate election doesn’t deny individual election.

[@HiHoSilvey]

Rather than irresistible grace, I prefer the term effectual grace. A Reformed pastor told me that Calvin himself did not believe in limited atonement. I would appreciate someone weighing in on this yes or no.

[@andys3035]

It's wise to focus on the Trinity. I think Calvinisms Achilles heel is that it's system starts with the issue of sovereignty and soteriology. Both are important topics but if you (not you personally) start with Calvinism, often times it messes up Christology, anthropology and can distort orthodox Trinitarianism. I believe Calvin rejected the eternal generation of the Son and taught Christ was damned by the Father, both of which are unorthodox or heretical.

[@tony9382]

@@zekdom A plain reading of Romans 9 that thinks it is talking about unconditional election is no more convincing, any more that than thinking that from “the four corners of the earth” (Is 11:12) results in the plain understanding that the earth is flat. So then to use “plain” as a hermeneutical advantage is too simplistic and results in a reductio.

[@StanGore-mk8ow]

great video....how do you get the lighting so good in your videoing? awesome!!

[@jasonb5645]

Not a Calvinist, but enjoy your videos which are always thoughtful. As one of my Calvinist friends said, "Calvinism has a way of explaining everything." That is the issue for me. Theology creates a "safety bubble" around the church while Scripture is filled with examples of human choice, suffering...and evil. Reaching beyond our own choice, those who have suffered rape, been trafficked or experienced other horrors realize the utter chaos and evil that is in the world (also reflected in Scripture and in each of us!). Can we try to not explain it away or tidy it up? In my pastoral experience, those who reach out to God and feel they have to understand Calvinism (as one example) struggle when they are told god also oversaw their torment. "God allowed that? and now He wants to 'save' me?" they ask. ...When we talk of the sovereignty of God, we must refer to a God who enters into chaos and still makes a way to reconcile humanity to Himself in spite of all its deepest horrors. God can be sovereign without having the need to control everything. Indeed, that makes Him a truly sovereign Savior; able to save to the uttermost. His promises are yes and Amen in spite of the chaos. ....apologies. just had to get that off my chest. 🙂

[@StudioEnergizerMV]

I mean it seems like you are describing the book of Job or the story of Joseph where God works good through the evil actions of men in a big picture way. I appreciate your thoughts, God bless

[@shawngillogly6873]

I agree that Calvinists should be the most humble of Christians. Because we recognize we did nothing meriting the receipt of salvation. That said, I can hardly go a week without someone saying "Calvinism is a demonic doctrine." So I'd hardly say the pride is all on one side.

[@laurakosch]

It is impossible to have any assurance of salvation as a calvinist, without looking at one’s own works (piously called fruit) or experience. When I finally came to understand the lie of Calvinism, I was able to stand on the promises of the Bible. Freedom. Peace. After years of anguish (the L in tulip was particularly devastating).

[@kolmonio]

Gavin, I think you should have a conversation about this with Leighton Flowers, because I think he genuinely has good points, not that you don't also, but I'd love to see a conversation or even a debate!

[@OliverToal]

I agree with some of your points, as they aren't necessarily in favor of Calvinism. It's not an essential doctrine for salvation, but I think it's one of the biggest issues aside from the gospel, as it can have some dangerous real-world consequences. I believe in God's loving provision for every man, woman and child, which can't truly be said of Calvinism.

[@rooderoo12]

Really enjoying your videos. They are thoughtful and show a great knowledge of church history. I am Christian Reformed myself, so very oriented toward Calvinism. You are right that most people don't understand it.

[@danielboone8256]

My fundamental problems with Calvinism (and Christian hedonism for that matter) is that it makes God to be a monster worse than the devil, and I’ve seen how this has harm the psyches of myself and others. When I was a kid who knew nothing, I was hearing preachers speaking with such authority that God elects some for salvation and some to be burned alive forever in Hell, so I view Calvinism, infernalism, and eternal conscious torment extremely negatively.

[@Jennifer13515]

Agreed! God has made provision!! For everyone!

[@davidemme2344]

As a Calvinist-I can appreciate how you got to your view. I disagree because I am a Calvinist but when stuff happens when we are kids. I do not think I would have came to the same place knowing what I know and my experiences in the past. I tend to be a fighter and did not realise that for a long time. Some are more sensitive (and that is not bad) but others of us are ready to take on the devil. We all have our gifts and hopefully this does not come across as feeling like I am better or more spiritual or more. Good example, my best friend sometimes thinks he is a fighter. One day I had to tell him the truth...your not a fighter...your a cheer leader. Know your role and embrace it.

[@l.elmo.di.scipio]

Hi Daniel! I'm a confused Catholic. I'm more familiar with RCC/EO soteriology, and I find it very balanced and logical. I thought I was on the path on embracing Protestantism because of the bloated devotional doctrines of the RCC; I was fed up with them. But I'm starting to get too tangled up in all these Reformed theologies. And Calvinism seems to me what you described.

[@Vanderhoven1]

Does God love everyone? Does God love His enemies? Can we say to people, "God loves you and wants you to be saved."?

[@wernerlottering8848]

Thank you for the video, brother. I really appreciate the humility and the approach.

[@vitaignis5594]

The fact that Calvin in his institutes completely disses the Greek church fathers who interpret their reliable texts differently than an under the influence of Manichaeism Augustine with unreliable Latin texts should give pause for concern from anyone taking an honest approach to Calvinism. Calvin himself is essentially claiming that pre Augustine, the early church teaches differently than him but rejects it on at best shaky grounds at worst because they disagree with his presuppositions.

[@jameshayes211]

Given compatibilism, God could have sovereignly determined that all persons would freely and faithfully respond to the gospel. That Calvinists cannot apprehend anything of God's reason for not having determined a universal redemption suggests that Calvinism is a theologically deficient system.

[@mpprod6631]

The core question I think you may be getting at is can anything happen outside of God’s ordination without molesting the will of the created being? Or maybe better way to say it God’s sovereign decree and man’s free will. I pleasantly would say I agree to disagree with your understanding of the subject. Gods ways are not our ways and just because we can’t understand something does not mean we are not told to believe it. For example the Trinity, the hypostatic union, and Gods eternality are all things as humans we have difficulty in understanding. How can God be absolutely sovereign yet man be a morally responsible creature? That’s just something the Bible shows that’s impossible for humans to understand fully because we are not God. The fact we disagree though does not mean we can’t have fellowship brother. God bless.

[@JustAskingQuestions8571]

​​@@mpprod6631man though Calvinism literally kills our best response to the problem of evil though doesn't it? (Our libertarian free will being the cause of evil, not God) I'm not saying this disproves Calvinism, but how do we deal with the problem of evil under Calvinism?

[@mpprod6631]

@@JustAskingQuestions8571 thank you for the question I appreciate the ability to have discourse. Calvinism sees no issue with sin and the sovereignty of God. Causing and ordaining are 2 separate things. God is not human, and His Will is qualitatively different then ours. We see this in scripture very pointedly with the most evil act with the crucifixion of Christ: “this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.” (Acts 2:23, ESV) “The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born." (Matthew 26:24, ESV) God can Ordain sin without being the cause of it. It rather God is sovereign without being accountable for the action. So, thethe long and short of it is that man is still the cause of evil to the glory of God. God bless.

[@mpprod6631]

@@JustAskingQuestions8571 thank you for the question I appreciate the ability to have discourse. Calvinism sees no issue with sin and the sovereignty of God. Causing and ordaining are 2 separate things. God is not human, and His Will is qualitatively different then ours. We see this in scripture very pointedly with the most evil act with the crucifixion of Christ: “this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.” (Acts 2:23, ESV) “The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born." (Matthew 26:24, ESV) God can Ordain sin without being the cause of it. It rather God is sovereign without being accountable for the action. So, thethe long and short of it is that man is still the cause of evil to the glory of God. God bless.

[@mpprod6631]

@@JustAskingQuestions8571 thank you for the question I appreciate the ability to have discourse. Calvinism sees no issue with sin and the sovereignty of God. Causing and ordaining are 2 separate things. God is not human, and His Will is qualitatively different then ours. We see this in scripture very pointedly with the most evil act with the crucifixion of Christ: “this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.” (Acts 2:23, ESV) “The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born." (Matthew 26:24, ESV) God can Ordain sin without being the cause of it. It rather God is sovereign without being accountable for the action. So, thethe long and short of it is that man is still the cause of evil to the glory of God. God bless.

[@adriannelea1]

Appealing to Augustine as the historical backing for determinism is a late reference. Even Calvin stated that all the early church fathers were confusing on this topic except for Augustine, and even Augustine introduced determinism into Christianity later in his life, most likely old ways of thinking coming back around from his Gnostic Manichaean days. The original 1st-3rd century fathers were not determinists. Augustine argued vehemently for libertarian freewill when he was first converted to Christianity, but he later switched to determinism.

[@christinalafferty6073]

Thanks for this video!! I have to be honest... The way you describe the both/and thing makes a whole lot of sense to me. I'm not a Calvinist, but the both/and is what keeps me from discarding it in its entirety. But unfortunately, I've never heard any Calvinist describe it in that way. Anyway, I like your take on it, and I do agree that it helps the discussion (at least for me) Edit: I also love that you said that in no view are all the questions taken off the table!! So true!

[@Krehfish534]

Dr. Ortlund, can you do a video demonstrating how Calvinism is not an accretion? And, if it is not an accretion, how can we explain how it appears to originate in the sixteenth century?

[@Probably_Dumb]

Love you Gavin. What objections do you have to molenism? Lots of calvinist just haven't heard of it, but I'm pretty confident you've given it some consideration. Grounding problems? ❤️

[@chadsteven9334]

I think my biggest problem it seems that in Molonism, God is limited because He can’t do anything that doesn’t work out in scenarios of Middle Knowledge. Sure, there’s endless scenarios that come from Middle Knowledge, but it still feels like a limitation placed on God, and if there’s a limitation placed on God, I would surely love to see it in scripture. I probably am just missing something.

[@noobitronius]

Former Molinist here. Ultimately, I realized that I believed in Molinism for philosophical and not biblical reasons - I thought it made the best sense of the problem of evil. However, it really doesn't answer the question better than any other soteriological framework (yes, some say it's not soteriology but in this context I think it is.) I was slowly converted to reformed theology by studying church history and above all, scripture. Much love to my Molinist brothers and sisters, though.

[@toddvoss52]

@@noobitronius hi AJ. You might want to check out the view of Father Most I reference in one of my other comments on this video. It’s a Catholic view that starts with scripture and Thomas and then proposes a solution (so to speak).

[@noobitronius]

@@toddvoss52 thanks Todd, i could not find your comment but I did find a book (letter? Writing?) available online by Father Most entitled Grace, Predestination and the Salvific Will of God: New Answers to Old Questions I will certainly check this out. I read the introduction and I appreciate his tone and clarity, thanks again for the recommendation. I am currently entrenched in the study of church history and Catholic/protestant differences, so this will help me with that, as well.

[@ip7101]

I enjoy your content, and already knew you were a calvinist. I am not, and do find myself disagreeing sometimes vehemently so with it. But you are so soft spoken, and it endears me. You and Leighton Flowers should have a discussion sometime where you push back on each other. Not a debate, that would be a waste of both of your cordial attitudes. Not saying it couldn't work, but a real-time discussion without the constraints of a formal debate I think would be beneficial for everyone.

[@rjh2169]

Oh man - a discussion between Dr Flowers and Dr Ortlund would be great. How about they put a mini-curriculum together that includes: - sufficient reference materials and source-pointing that states and undergirds their own case (so that any discussion/interaction time that they have isn't taken up by providing this important background material): - a reasonably detailed position paper (or date+time stamped reference to already existing watchable content they may have already created (their published books work to) on the "strongest-strengths" and "weakest-weaknesses" of their own and the others view; - a commitment to hear out and respond in detail with "the actual points of contention" of the other side (so often ...huge amounts of time taken up with responses ...that may be good as far as responses go ...but that are NOT in response to the question or point being made by the opposing side. MASSIVELY frustrating!) - ...whatever else they would come up that they think would bring the effort to its best result. I have huge respect for Gavin and Leighton - in how they go out of their way to make sure that they are steel-manning an opposing view, so that the best of the best available info is what is being considered (giving their take on it for sure, but especially in light of scripture - as has been/is being revealed to each of them). There is such a huge need for this meaty, charitable discussion and content and it would help so many - these two may be uniquely qualified and fit for His purposes in this. The amount of work this may be is likely to require real time and real work. If a plan can come together, and resourcing the plan is necessary to allow it to be real, I can only imagine that a request to crowd fund it would be positively responded to. I know I would. If it never happens, they both have lots of their own content out there, and it's great that that's so, but the charitable heat they could create together could shed real light on these important faith concepts ...as concepts for theology nerds to wig out on for sure, but more importantly because of the practical impact these concepts have on our understanding of who God is, and who we are in Him.

[@toddvoss52]

You are absolutely right on your third appeal. For example, in the Catholic Church, predestination is characterized as a mystery and there are several acceptable approaches . Of course a full Calvinistic approach is not. Calvinism is not crazy at all but has been ruled out for Catholics . The reasons for that make sense to me but as you say the problem remains. Hence the mystery. I lean towards the view of Father William Most. His view can be found at the William Most Library in various articles and notes . One which also discusses Augustine in fair detail is titled “St Augustine on Grace and Predestination.” The others which focus on Thomas are : “Predestination” and “Predestination: Reasons for the Centuries Old Impasse.” But they all start with Scripture.

[@randomname2366]

Do you have a video on the historical lineage of the Calvinistic view? I have loved so much of your content and as a non-calvanist, and a strong opponent of it, I would enjoy your overview of the historical lineage of that view. We are always so precise and gentle with handling texts so I would be very open to your presentation compared to many others.

[@pipkinrahl7264]

You're right, it's not crazy, it's satanic.

[@sethmegandoran2561]

Please elaborate

[@michaelbanda9993]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@michaelbanda9993]

You probably got to a non denominational church

[@SimonJification]

Calvinism is so easy to understand. If you understand inspiration, you understand predestination. In inspiration, men wrote of their own volition, with their own vocabulary, with their own temperament, with their own intention EXACTLY what the Holy Spirit intended for them to write.

[@gigahorse1475]

That is a very good point I have never considered before.

[@ProfYaffle]

No I still don't understand...but TULIP was one of the Quordle answers today and the word was conveniently right there at the front of my brain. Must be a sign. I'll listen again

[@TruthUnites]

haha, it's a sign! :)

[@doomerquiet1909]

Reformed baptist here and I LOVE THAT YOU SAW THAT IN PERELANDRA AS WELL

[@timfoster5043]

Calvinistic soteriology took me a while to wrap my head around. But once I removed my cultural projections on various passages and read them in a way that was consistent with 1st century authors, my objections dissipated. Another bonus: Over the past ~ 30 years, I've written question marks in the margins of my Bible, because there are dozens (literally!) of passages that don't quite make sense. Once Calvinistic soteriology clicked into place, the majority of those questionable passages started to make sense. Three in particular: Deut 28:63 [read the whole chapter first]; Deut 29:4 [read Deut 28 first to get the weight of this verse]; Matt 11:20-25. In fact, that Matthew passage was the linchpin that swung me over to what most would call Double Predestination. There's no way that passage makes any sense without either dismissing it outright (which is what William Lane Craig does) or endorsing Double Predestination. To me, I can't fathom that Jesus would disparage the real torment of tens of thousands of soul as a mere dismissible literary device to make a point about the entire northern Galilee region refusing to repent. Keep up the great work, Dr. (And don't waste your time with Theology 101. Dr. Flowers' cognitive dissonance is painful to listen to.)

[@brentonstanfield5198]

Agreed Tim, once I really came to an understanding of Reformed Theology… so much of Scripture just came alive.

[@andrewwoods456]

Hi Gavin! Calvinist & Baptist here. Oh to be in Scotland where Reformed folks are more common 1. Sad to reflect that it's the attitudes of many Calvinist preachers, at least we'll known ones, that mean I watch many more non-Calvinist preachers 2. Theological triage seems to be highly relevant to doctrinal issues such as those in the reformed system, whether you agree with them or not 3. Would be extremely interested in a video in 'Total Depravity' should influence our approaches to evangelism. eg What should it mean for 'seeker friendly' approaches (compare Romans 3:11)

[@hopelessstrlstfan181]

Great video. You are a great example of a True Christian (in sense of being "Christ-like/a Little Christ" by virtue of being charitable to those who disagree with you & etc) who is a Calvinist, but I'm definitely not a Calvinist.

[@YuGiOhDuelChannel]

I love the author of a book analogy, even for things like unconditional election, it is not like JK Rowling looked ahead of her own writing saw how Harry would be and then choose to make him the hero based on Harry's actions which she hadn't even written yet, she just unconditionally created a character named Harry and wrote his story, making him the hero not based on anything Harry did, it is completely unconditional.

[@kennylee6499]

This is exciting! I cant wait to go through this whole series :)

[@labsquadmedia176]

@Truth Unites I'd be interested in a dialogue between you and Leighton Flowers of Soteriology101. You both are Irenic and gracious in your manner and the conversation would likely be both helpful and cordial.

[@ColoDP]

Would love to see a discussion or debate with Leighton Flowers , Soteriology 101

[@imherwerdio6852]

This was actually rather well done, Gavin, and made quite a bit of sense. I wasn't aware of that Thomas Aquinas quote. That all being said, while I'm not sure I agree necessarily, you do make an at least fairly atrong case for it. Furthermore, what exactly is Mollinism/Mullenism/Molenism (or however you spell it)? Is that like a Lutheran mindset?

[@reepicheepsfriend]

Hi! I have a question for you. During college I had a lot of conversations with a particular fellow student who was deep into Calvinism and honestly it was one of the main things she ever wanted to talk about. Because of that, unfortunately, I think I got the idea that Calvinists don't care as much about things like preaching the gospel, only about proclaiming this particular doctrine. I once had a conversation with her about whether God loves those who reject him ultimately. She said that Calvinism teaches that God does not and has never loved these people. I then asked her how she could make sense of that in light of Christ's teaching to love our enemies. Would Christ ask us to do something that God himself does not do? She didn't have an answer for that, but I was wondering what your opinion is. First of all, is it an essential teaching of Calvinism? Do all Calvinists believe that God only loves the elect? If so, how would you respond to my objection? (I can imagine that one might say, Christ tells us to love our enemies because we're not God and we don't know if they are truly our enemies. They may be predestined to repent at a later time. But that doesn't settle the issue in my mind, given the context of the passage in Matthew 5, where Christ then directly relates the command to the actions of God as an example.)

[@HopeUnknown]

People always call me a calvanist like it's a racial slur and I don't even know why. I'm inspired by your dedication and research and tend to agree with what you say so I suppose it's not such a bad thing after all 🤷

[@5BBassist4Christ]

Interesting. These are pretty similar to my views, which I thought were more considered non-Calvinistic views. The implication from my many Calvinist friends is all predestination and no free-will. I should share this and see what they say.

[@wisewoman4950]

Exactly. I made a similar comment to this. Many Calvinists seem to erase the freewill part. It's "both and"

[@toddthacker8258]

@@wisewoman4950 The erase the free-will part by saying it is impossible for anyone not elected by God to even want to be saved. So they make the argument that people have free will at the same time as they say it is impossible for them to make any decision other than the one they made. It honestly mystifies me.

[@cinemadolce]

I’ve watched you for a long time and was shocked to find out you consider yourself a Calvinist, because you are unlike any Calvinist I have ever listened to. I so appreciate your humility and viewpoints, even if I don’t agree 100% of the time. May God continue to bless your ministry and by doing so, bless the rest of us with superb Christian content. ❤

[@kaazoom]

I appreciate so much of Gavin's teaching and have learnt a lot from this channel. But this is a subject that I cannot agree on. While Calvinism, and this isn't a personal attack on Gavin, upholds God's sovereignty, to my mind it makes him into a moral monster. It's not that salvation is by grace and not based on works that's the problem, it's that in Calvinism God creates people for the sole purpose of tormenting them in hell for all eternity. People who have no chance of repenting. Of course, that can seem okay if your theologising, but it's what it means in the real world that matters, especially if you are a parent. It means that God may have allowed you to produce children that he intends to burn for all eternity. It doesn't matter if they are brought up in a godly home, it doesn’t matter how many times they hear the gospel. They will not be saved. God has prechosen them for damnation. It would be better to never have any children than to have them in the knowledge that God may have chosen your son or daughter for eternal misery. They never had a chance. If you have lost a child whose salvation you're not sure about, it makes the grief even worse. They may be lost not because they chose to reject the gospel, they never had a chance. God chose to damn them. How does a parent love and serve a God like that? This may sound too subjective to some people. But this is something that effects real people. It's not just some theological/philological question. Calvinists, like cessationist, only go back as far as Augustine, they ignore the teaching of those who went before them who believed in freewill and rejected determinism. There a number of scholars that have argued this. I'm not a scholar, and my memory isn’t great, but I have read far more satisfying answers to the questions that Calvinists ask than the ones they give.

[@adecarion]

Thanks for the video. This helps me to see Calvinism in a better light, and not to attack the people who hold to it. My concern with Calvinism, perhaps you can address it, is that it accuses God of being unjust. Damning one person and not another, based on an arbitrary will paints the picture of a God as a tyrant. This cancels out real relationship between God and man, and portrays God as the author of evil. So, I would argue that Calvinism is a major cause of atheism today. Believing that God made man for real, free, loving communion does not have the same level of theological difficulty as does positing a God who in fact does not accept repentance of sinners but rather orchestrates the repentance of automatons. I would love to hear your direct addressing of this problem. Thank you.

[@anthonym.7653]

Just saw a great video by Beyond The Fundamentals on how there is no grace in calvinism. Good stuff.

[@Golfinthefamily]

Grace is a gift... and in calvinism that's all it is... pure grace... no works, no one's decision from themselves...just a gift completely independent of someones works. Romans 9... before they were born one he loved and one he hated. I guess this all comes down to how you define grace as well.

[@bclark63]

Excellent as always! One thing that has helped me grasp the idea of God and his knowledge being qualitatively different, as the author outside the story, vs the characters in the story, are the findings and insights of quantum physics. If things like quantum entanglement, neutral quantum states until observed, etc are true, then one can see how perhaps God created the very fabric of reality to support the "both and" nature of his absolute sovereignty AND our sufficient free agency.

[@Gospelogian]

I agree that humility is very much needed!! Appreciate this message a lot - it’s good to be encouraged by a fellow reformed brother in Christ!

[@Cori761]

@TruthUnites I've been following you for a while and I love your videos but I'm curious - do you believe regeneration precedes faith? Do you address the concerns regarding Calvinism in another video? Thanks