Why Reformation Was Needed

The Reformation was not just a doctrinal corrective, but a spiritual corrective as well. This video shows two areas reformation was needed in the late medieval Western church: (1) indulgences, and (2) persecution.
See my previous videon on the historical development of indulgences here: • Indulgences: Patristic...
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Truth Unites (www.truthunites.org) exists to promote gospel assurance through theological depth.
Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) serves as senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Ojai.
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00:00 Introduction
00:32 The Goal of This Video
03:00 (1) Indulgences
16:40 (2) Persecution
32:33 Gospel Assurance is at Stake

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

Dr. Ortlund: "Today I'm making a video critiquing the Catholic practice of - " *Every Catholic on planet earth receives an EMERGENCY ALERT text commanding each of them to make a 6 hour rebuttal video and demand that Dr. Ortlund respond to every single point they made*

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

@@matnic_6623 many

[@z_nytrom99]

"If I don't get a 6 hr video out within 45 minutes of his upload, the Pope threatened to personally excommunicate me!!!!!"

[@danielcarriere1958]

I think Dr. Ortlund should be flattered by the attention. But in all fairness, he only presents evidence for his side. He is an apologist, after all. So naturally Catholics apologists will need to respond.

[@pigetstuck]

@@danielcarriere1958 Is he officially an apologist?

[@turkeybobjr]

​@danielcarriere1958 "he only presents evidence for his side" He literally just presents the evidence for what actually happened. How can he present evidence for the "opposing side" when his conclusion is simply correct? His position is "the church needed reformation". The opposing side would be "the church did not need reformation". Good luck defending that position.

[@landonlawson2676]

Let's also not forget that Luther didn't choose to leave the Catholic church. He was kicked out. His goal wasn't to start a new church but to reform the church he was a part of from the inside.

[@billmartin3561]

Well, he was also calling the Pope the anti-Christ. He was picking a fight, got caught up in the fame, it went to his head and he wanted to remove books from the Bible to support HIS theology, and got himself kicked out.

[@bibleman8010]

@@billmartin3561 The very founder of the "Reformation", Martin Luther, was the "regrettable" one, as he surveyed the damage that his rebellion against authority had caused. His writings show that he lamented his deed when he penned the following remarks... "This one will not hear of Baptism, and that one denies the sacrament, another puts a world between this and the last day: some teach that Christ is not God, some say this, some say that: there are as many sects and creeds as there are heads. No yokel is so rude but when he has dreams and fancies, he thinks himself inspired by the Holy Ghost and must be a prophet."😆😆 Protestantism has always been an angry movement marked by judgment, elitism, discord, discrimination, and disunity. Indeed, are these not the fruits of sinful pride and bitter hatred? So one might reasonably ask. May anyone be truly Protestant without staunchly being in a state of constant protest and disagreement? Can anyone be Protestant without being against some thing, or some tradition or some doctrine or someone at every moment? Such opposition seems essential to Protestantism. For if it were to cease, it would beg one question... "Why are we not all Catholic?" Surely all people of Christian faith would agree that what Christ founds does not fragment. What Christ begins does not fail. What Christ unites is not dis-unified. Rather, what Christ founds and leads is one, holy and apostolic. That Protestantism continues to fragment is the ultimate proof of its fallacy and in-authenticity. But, unlike most movements, Protestantism takes such great pride in its ongoing failures, seeing each break with Christian unity, each moment of discord, each battle of words and belief as signs of holding the true faith. Yet Protestantism has failed, in this respect, to offer any evidence of its historical or mystical connection to the Body of Christ. Instead, each denomination repeats the same, sad pattern of reform and brief unity followed by discord and then further fragmentation under the guise of new reform. Historically, Protestantism is a movement founded in hatred, blood and destruction. Many faithful, including priests, monks, nuns and bishops, were murdered at the hands of the first Protestant "reformers." Churches were looted and burned. Altars were desecrated. People were robbed, raped and murdered and all in the name of God. Does that remind you of anything going on in the Middle-east these days? Is that the sort of heritage Protestants celebrate when they speak of their "glorious reformation?" Is that what Protestants aspire to when they celebrate Reformation Day?

[@MrPeach1]

@@billmartin3561 don't forget adding the word "alone" to Romans.

[@clivejames5058]

Let's also not forget Luther's fiercely anti-semitic writings but yes, Luther by his inflammatory denunciation of pope and clergy let loose a veritable hurricane of fierce, uncontrollable racial and religious hatred that spread across Europe. Notable among them, the German Peasant's War, in 1525, where more than 1000 monasteries and castles were levelled to the ground, hundreds of villages were laid in ashes with harvests destroyed leaving approx 100,000 killed. Let us also not forget the Sack of Rome, in 1527, where over 8,000 Catholics were butchered to death in one night alone. No one questions Rome needed reform but you need to question whether one can, in all conscience, follow a man like Luther.

[@subiudice9284]

Sack of Rome has essentially to do with Luther. It was led by Catholics and was itself majority catholic. You can’t blame the man for denouncing very clear abuses, just because the existence of abuses created incredible anger. Blame the abuses.

[@ThePostmillennial]

Gavin, as a weary Protestant I needed to hear this. Gospel clarity and centrality IS the MAIN issue. I also just listened to Dr Scott Hahn’s latest talk with Pints w/ Aquinas and he stated at the end of the podcast “When I make it to heaven… [correction] I pray that I make it to heaven”. As a Protestant flirting with the idea of Catholicism my heart immediately sank. This man I deeply admire has no assurance because at the end of the day his theology requires that he is required (at some level) to save himself. God bless. 🙏

[@nathangraham2189]

That is a rather unfair and inaccurate representation of what Dr. Hahn said, and if the Catholic position on this. We dont do anything to earn our salvation, but we absolutely CAN throw that salvation away. And by the way: that is not just the Catholic position on this, and neither is eternal security the Protestant position. OSAS or eternal security/perseverance of the saints, is a CALVINIST position, and one that is NOT shared by the Eastern Orthodox, or the vast majority of Protestants either! Lutherans, Methodists, Anglicans, Armenians, large numbers of Pentecostals, and plenty of others I’m forgetting are all in agreement with the Catholic position on this issue. Moreover, Calvinism gives one arguably MORE worry about one’s eternal destiny, as one can never be sure if they are truly one of the elect, and one can’t really do anything about it either way. Your predestined for Heaven or Hell, with ultimately no say in the matter after all according to Calvin. Pax Christi.

[@thegoatofyoutube1787]

Actually, he is modeling St. Paul’s humility: 23 All this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I too may have a share in it. 24 * Do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run so as to win. 25 Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one.q 26 Thus I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing. 27 No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.” Scripture talks about salvation in past, present, and future tenses. Yes, it is all from Christ but he calls us to say “yes” in an ongoing way. We all have the hope of heaven and Christ will never let us go but we don’t have some magical guarantee that we will persevere. This is why the Bible warns agains falling away and why Christians before the Reformation sounded more like Scott Hahn than like modern Protestants.

[@toddthacker8258]

​@@thegoatofyoutube1787There's a big difference between "falling away" and succumbing to temptation.

[@minagelina]

I know I was looking into Catholicism because so many Catholics were very convincing in some of the arguments, though some I was not swayed. This time period showed that infallibility just isn't a thing other than Scripture and that there is no assurance of salvation.

[@susanburrows810]

Most Catholics have to finish paying for their own sins in purgatory ..it is thought for thousands of years. Of course Catholicism teaches that dead saints can help reduce someone else's time, and so can living catholics -- by paying for masses, praying, & with more good deeds. Very convoluted, monetary still & unbiblical. PLEASE TRUST JESUS AND HIS PERFECT SACRIFICE & PERFECT, POWERFUL WORD!!!🙏🙏🙏

[@ninjason57]

I really appreciate these videos. I grew up Protestant but have found myself intrigued on Catholic and Orthodox theology and history. I’ve been doing my own research and study on the church. I read all perspectives I can find to try to prevent obvious bias. All I want is the truth. I believe the Father, son and Holy Spirit work through the church body whether it’s Orthodox, Catholic, or Protestant to spread the good news of Jesus Christ. I trust that God knows who are his sheep and all I want is to be counted among His fold.

[@asdfnewguy7029]

"God knows his sheep." What a blessing, and an antidote to worry. Are you considering converting to Roman Catholicism or Eastern/Oriental Orthodoxy?

[@davidthenewtheologian7757]

Please read the decree of Dositheus

[@noxvenit]

@@davidthenewtheologian7757And then he should do what?

[@davidthenewtheologian7757]

@@noxvenit make His decision if the official position of the EO is what his priest is telling him about icons, who’s a Christian etc.

[@noxvenit]

@@davidthenewtheologian7757 I see. Very good, thanks.

[@scottie8365]

“The Gospel shouldn’t be spread by coercion,threats,violence or power” Amen to that! 🙏

[@thepalegalilean]

If you feel that way, your Gospel has an expiration date and certainly couldn't have survived. Thank God for what you errantly call threats, violence and power.

[@scottie8365]

@@thepalegalilean what about if it’s the abuse of them in the name of said Gospel?

[@thepalegalilean]

@@scottie8365 Removing the heretic and the non-Christian from your land is not an abuse. Civilization has a right to defend itself.

[@scottie8365]

@@thepalegalilean I’m sorry,are you calling guys like Hus,Wycliffe and Tynedale etc heretics and none Christians and actually condoning what happened to them and others? Apologies if that isn’t the case 🙏

[@johnmark6628]

​@@thepalegalilean contradictment

[@tategarrett3042]

I very much appreciate your ethos to try to share the concerns that drove the reformation so clearly. Much of this seems to be tragically unknown by the general public, including both Protestants and Roman Catholics.

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

Catholic definitely know about the reformation, but all they "know" is that Luther ruined everything, caused a schism, and rebelled against the one true church w/ all the perfect doctrines. That's what they "know". Apparently he should have either shut up and never opposed the perfect church, or he should have just let them kill him, like they did to other reformers. There's a movement of extreme Catholics that would happily bring back the death penalty for schismatics. The RCC has had to change, only because it lost it's stranglehold of power, due to the reformation, but the same harsh and authoritarian spirit remains in many, if not most of its adherents. I see it constantly in comments to us. They believe everything their church tells them, believe its truly infallible and believe if we just submit and we just have one big subjugative church again, all will be well. It seems like it would be more of a nightmare than it even was back then, if that ever happened.

[@byonnoyb]

m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5Okln5oZbhsmKc

[@HarryNicNicholas]

sounds like a wasted life to me, but there you go.

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

@@HarryNicNicholas What sounds like a wasted life, to you?

[@tategarrett3042]

@@HarryNicNicholas who's and how so? I'm not sure who you're referring to.

[@prime_time_youtube]

Dr. Ortlund, we are deeply thankful for your extraordinary ministry, which we hold in the highest regard. Your unwavering defense of the Protestant faith is nothing short of awe-inspiring. Thank you!!!

[@davek2906]

There is no such thing as "the Protestant faith" -- that's the problem.

[@raphaelfeneje486]

​@@davek2906 And what's your point?? What is faith?

[@mikekayanderson408]

Call it the Reformed faith then. Call it the true faith if you prefer. Call it biblical faith. Call it saving faith. It only became theProtestant faith because the people protested agains the Roman Catholic teachings and returned to what the Bible taught - because the the Roman church was teaching untruth and leading people astray - and it still is to this day. @@davek2906

[@geordiewishart1683]

The problem is non Protestant faiths

[@johnmark6628]

​@@davek2906 what does that even mean?

[@krizilloo2538]

Hang in there, Dr. Ortlund. The Church needs you.

[@padraicbrown6718]

Yes we do! As a Catholic, I'd say we need him if for no other reason than to get more people studying scripture, studying tradition, studying Church history, studying the history of the Reformation and the explosion of theological and ecclesial novelty that arose from it! Dr Ortlund is clearly a charitable soul and a formidable intellect who can and does espouse Protestantism simply and forthrightly.

[@johnmark6628]

​@@padraicbrown6718 church history isn't catholic though

[@noahfletcher3019]

​@@padraicbrown6718 "As a Catholic" blah blah blah.

[@countryboyred]

@@padraicbrown6718the more I study church history, the more the Catholic claims seem completely untenable

[@kgebhardt1187]

May God bless you and keep you ❤@@padraicbrown6718

[@mattosamanandesu]

Gavin, thank you so much for being a winsome voice of reason within the Protestant tradition. Your content has been incredibly helpful in grounding me in my Reformed convictions. You've even helped to inspire my love for patristic writings. God bless you, brother!

[@logicaredux5205]

It needed to be said.

[@annb9029]

Go google Saint Teresa of Avila I tried to put a link it will not let me

[@byonnoyb]

Keep studying those Patristic/Catholic writings... m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5Okln5oZbhsmKc

[@ghostapostle7225]

The misquoting of patristic writing would be more accurate.

[@CorbinDoesStuff]

Dr. Ortlund don’t worry about bad actors! Your scholarship is solid and if people handle sources honestly with good intentions they will see that. Thankful for you!

[@HectorTheGr8]

This video is over 8 months old but I’m just getting around to watching it. I’m so grateful for you Gavin and all the work you are doing for the church. You are a blessing to me and I am thankful that you are on KZbin

[@daliborbenes5025]

I'd say not only is knowing the medieval practice surrouding indulgences crucial for the understanding of why the Reformation occured, it also sets the context for basic general teachings of Protestantism, namely Sola Fide, which is properly defined in contrast with indulgences and its supporting teachings, like the Treasury of Merit. Usually when Sola Fide is misrepresented (like being confused for antinomianism), it is because the person does not know what it tries to fight against. It strikes right at the issue of how grace is merited, and whether we can merit forgiveness for temporal punishment. That is Luther's breakthrough in understanding the doctrine of Justification.

[@doubtingthomas9117]

That’s a really good point and one I’ve been thinking about recently. There seems to be a proliferation of proponents of “easy-believism” among many of the descendants of certain strands of Protestantism. I have come to regard these distorted notions of “sola fide” as representing the Protestant DEFORMATION as they are inconsistent with the concepts and context of the Reformers themselves.

[@thegoatofyoutube1787]

In Catholic theology, indulgences have nothing to do with salvation and never have.

[@KnightFel]

@@thegoatofyoutube1787indulgences and purgatory are a fundamental denial of the gospel. It points people away from the finished work of Christ, and to themselves to make sure they are some how living in a way in which they can minimize their time in purgatory or eliminate the possibility all together. It’s not biblical, it was just a great way to scare people into emptying their pockets to the church, which is how St. Peter’s Basilica was built. It was built on twisting people’s arm with the fear of purgatory.

[@susanburrows810]

You're fooling yourself and not facing history and facts. In Caholicism, indulgences bought (with money) time out of purgatory which allowed one to get to heaven. In Catholicism heaven & salvation are separated & divided. Jesus is absolutely divinelh powerful & HE bought & paid for BOTH. "It is finished." BELIEVE HIM & HIS WORD...THE TRUTH (not fallible, sinful men).

[@thegoatofyoutube1787]

@@susanburrows810 First, I never said the church never had corrupt practice (meaning scandal or bad behavior). The teaching surrounding purgatory is that it is a state of purification for souls who are saved and will be in heaven (with or without indulgences). Any soul in a state of purgatory is saved and will be in heaven; they are simply completing sanctification by Christ’s power and indulgences can ease or shorten this process. I understand history, you don’t understand Catholic theology.

[@SentinelArchivist]

This is a powerful and fair video, Dr. Ortlund. The presentation of the simple, beautiful gospel at the end... moving. Your work and ministry are so appreciated. Thank you!

[@HarryNicNicholas]

"powerful" - not from where i'm sitting.

[@lorinwood3300]

@@HarryNicNicholas You want some indulgence money to my dude? Did your grandma get stuck in the middle world :P

[@militemlucis6131]

@@HarryNicNicholasyou are all over this comment section sounding very triggered my friend.

[@PuritanPilgrim]

Thank you for being willing to stand up for Protestantism. Most people wouldn't be willing to deal with the Catholic slander and attacks like you are.

[@theRockSalter]

What about all the Protestants attacking Catholics. It works both ways

[@theKKfighters1]

@@theRockSalter Protestants slandering Catholics are wrong too. Idk why you bring up whataboutism instead of just condemning it

[@theRockSalter]

​@@theKKfighters1I do condemn it and it works both ways. Both are true and I can state it how I like, bye

[@keelyemerine-mix1051]

You're a good, devout, gentle, and faithful man. The Church needs you.

[@yurito3g]

Very good video Gavin, Im glad that you mentioned the Waldesians, it is trully horrible what Rome did to them. Im a non denominational ( for now) protestant from Brazil and part of my family descends from the Northern Italy Waldesians. I even carry a Waldesian name: Gagnor. I am very happy and proud of their service to our Lord, and may God bless their souls. Keep up the Good work Gavin , you are much needed in these times of Christian turmoil. And as the Waldesians say may the gospel always be a : LUX LUCET IN TENEBRIS

[@HarryNicNicholas]

just a quick reminder that the first amendment conflicts with the first commandment "thou shalt worship whoever you want" and that the declaration of human rights gives ME more rights than god. is it annoying that the satanic temple has the SAME RIGHTS as the church?

[@theepitomeministry]

Great work, Dr. Ortlund! Don't let those who question your scholarship get to your head. Anyone paying close attention can tell you're a careful scholar. Also, I loved the appeal to the Gospel at the end. Let it not be obscured by penance and the Treasury of Merit. Let it be by our full trust in the Gospel of Christ. Amen!

[@caryyurk1388]

Thank you Gavin for observing and promoting Reformation Day. Objective analysis of the medieval Church and its heretical abuses such as indulgences are expressed clearly in your passionate narrative.

[@justfromcatholic]

@caryyurk1388: Why the Catholic Church still teaches penance (to which indulgences are related) to this day and why the Reformers and Protestants reject it? Eze. 33:14-16 says (ESV): “Again, though I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ yet if he turns from his sin and does what is just and right, if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has taken by robbery, and walks in the statutes of life, not doing injustice, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the sins that he has committed shall be remembered against him. He has done what is just and right; he shall surely live.” Based on the above verses, a sinner must (1) turn from his sin (or repent) and (2) do what is just and right (known as penance in Catholicism), to be back in life or regain his state of grace (in Catholic terminology). In contrast the Reformers taught that through faith alone all your sins (past, present, and future) are imputed on Christ who already paid the penalty of those sins on the cross. If that is the case, then there is no need of penance - no penance means no purgatory, and no indulgences. Your sins will be covered by perfect righteousness of Christ - even God the Father won’t be able (or pretend not) to see them - you have peace in mind as Dr. Ortlund said, your salvation is assured. Protestants who follow Free Grace Theology (Easy-believism in Dr. Ortlund terminology) will say that even repentance is optional - you still go to heaven even if you do not repent from your future sins. Treasury of merits: Scripture does mentions treasurer in heaven (Mat. 19:21, Mar. 10:21, Luk. 12:33, 18:22) that comes from doing good works. Scripture is silent on the purpose of having that treasure in heaven. Dr. Ortlund is entitled to disagree on how the Catholic Church understands the purpose of treasury of merits of all saints in heaven, but it is in Scripture. According to Scripture merits can be imputed on others. In Gen. 18:32 God told Abraham that He would not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah if there were ten righteous persons living there. How many they had? According to 2 Pe. 2:7 Lot was righteous person - they had one, but one is less than ten. In contrast Scripture says both righteousness and wickedness are NOT imputable in Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV): “The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.” But double imputation is the core teaching of the Reformers. Was Reformation necessary? IMHO it was necessary to correct the abuses, but what happened was not reformation but rebellion.

[@bibleman8010]

Protestantism has always been an angry movement marked by judgment, elitism, discord, discrimination, and disunity. Indeed, are these not the fruits of sinful pride and bitter hatred? So one might reasonably ask. May anyone be truly Protestant without staunchly being in a state of constant protest and disagreement? Can anyone be Protestant without being against some thing, or some tradition or some doctrine or someone at every moment? Such opposition seems essential to Protestantism. For if it were to cease, it would beg one question... "Why are we not all Catholic?" Surely all people of Christian faith would agree that what Christ founds does not fragment. What Christ begins does not fail. What Christ unites is not dis-unified. Rather, what Christ founds and leads is one, holy and apostolic. That Protestantism continues to fragment is the ultimate proof of its fallacy and in-authenticity. But, unlike most movements, Protestantism takes such great pride in its ongoing failures, seeing each break with Christian unity, each moment of discord, each battle of words and belief as signs of holding the true faith. Yet Protestantism has failed, in this respect, to offer any evidence of its historical or mystical connection to the Body of Christ. Instead, each denomination repeats the same, sad pattern of reform and brief unity followed by discord and then further fragmentation under the guise of new reform. Historically, Protestantism is a movement founded in hatred, blood and destruction. Many faithful, including priests, monks, nuns and bishops, were murdered at the hands of the first Protestant "reformers." Churches were looted and burned. Altars were desecrated. People were robbed, raped and murdered and all in the name of God. Does that remind you of anything going on in the Middle-east these days? Is that the sort of heritage Protestants celebrate when they speak of their "glorious reformation?" Is that what Protestants aspire to when they celebrate Reformation Day?🤦‍♂🤦‍♂

[@addjoaprekobaah5914]

No lgbts in the Catholic church?

[@billmartin3561]

Exactly how is the concept of indulgences a heresy? Explain what is anti-biblical about it.

[@caryyurk1388]

@@billmartin3561 why don’t you explain why indulgences are biblical? Dr. Ortland gave a very clear argument against indulgences. Indulgences are a demonic deviation from earlier spiritual formation of catechumens in the apostolic and patristic periods. Ungodly developments in the RC Church hierarchy institutionalised this as dogma related to the sacrament of Confession and Penance. I will pray for you that your eyes become open as this teaching is so far removed from apostolic and orthodox teaching, it must be confronted in the way Dr. Ortland attempted to do.

[@LukassYT]

Thank you Gavin. This was needed. I wasn’t fully aware of the reasons for the reformation. Many times i feel like I, or Catholics and Protestants I talk to forget why the reformation was needed, resulting with the conclusion that it was just protestants jumping off the ship. They never wanted to, and never did.

[@harmonyadams7577]

Thank you for your teachings Gavin. From a pensioner in New Zealand. God bless you 🙏

[@z_nytrom99]

"To be deep in history is to cease being -Protestant- Catholic."

[@textandtelescope8199]

Have studied church history though not a church historian. My observation was that Luther survived because he had a powerful patron who could keep him alive. Great job brother!

[@Animangamer]

And to that, I say “Amen Pastor”. Thank you for your continued courage, your careful attention to detail in history and literature. And for your affable and compassionate approach to these tough topics. God bless!

[@ryanharvey6375]

Thank you, Gavin for you wonderful teaching on early church history. I think we Protestants don’t know enough of our roots and how reformation came about, how long it was in the making, and why it was necessary. I also love the end of this video, and the simplistic beauty of the gospel.

[@anglicanaesthetics]

Excellent video, Gavin! Not enough people realize that purgatory is a *retributive concept* in Tridentine thought--a finite hell. Temporal debt is completely remitted in Baptism, but re-accrued through venial and mortal sin. That distinction allows the Roman church, along with her doctrine of the keys, to claim that she can dispense the merits of Christ as she wills. Even if Rome has eliminated some of the abuses, the fundamental doctrinal basis has not changed: the Council of Trent teaches that satisfaction isn't just remedial or medicinal, but meant to satisfy retributive debt otherwise to be satisfied in purgatorial judgment. She *still thinks* that her dispensing of plenary indulgences somehow has more potency to wipe away debt than repentance and the Eucharist. The Reformation goes on until Rome repents.

[@davecorns7630]

i didn´t knew it was that bad, may God have mercy on all the victims

[@susanburrows810]

SPECIAL REQUEST VIDEO: 5 to 10 significant changes ( dogma or practices) over past 2000 years by Catholic hierarchy (magisterium & traditions) such as: from all those outside Rome condemmed to now, if baptized, seen as bros.( still go to purgatory though) ; change of which sins are in mortal category; actual monetary indulgent payment for sin penalty (with a church document declaring such) to denial of such practice today ; "Mary in early church" to sinless, incorruptible body, powerful to forgive & save as in "Prayer to Our Mother of Perpetual Help" Queen of Heaven ; policy & practice of killing those who believe Jesus but not the Catholic way ( Inquisition 600 yrs) ; from forbidding the reading of scripture by individuals to Bible study AS EXAMPLES. Thanks. You and your topics and manner are a blessing and of high standards.❤

[@quickattackfilms7923]

I thank God for you, Gavin. I pray God blesses you brother.

[@shawngillogly6873]

Thank you for both charitably and accurately demonstrating why Reformation was necessary.

[@rebeccacovert8052]

Thank you Pastor Gavin for your faithfulness and obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ. You’ve helped me and my husband immensely in our understanding of it. Persecution and hatred are evidences of your commitment to your upward call in Christ. God bless you! You’re always in our prayers.

[@raphaelfeneje486]

​@patriceagulu8315 Confused dude🥱

[@NATAR160]

​@patriceagulu8315it's easy to note those who are on the side of the devil. They are bags of emotion!

[@rexlion4510]

When reformer John Hooper was appointed Bishop of Gloucester in 1551, he was tasked with overseeing 311 clergy in his diocese. Of that 311 clergy, he discovered that 168 could not recite the Ten Commandments, 31 could not state in what part of the Bible those Commandments could be found, 40 did not know where the Lord's Prayer is written in the Bible, and 31 could not even identify who authored the Lord's Prayer! Bishop Hooper worked tirelessly to whip his clergy into shape, and he traveled constantly from parish to parish giving sermons to edify the parishioners. He was known to regularly open his home and invite the local beggars to dine at his table, at which he took the opportunity to teach them the Lord's Prayer, the Articles of Faith, and the Ten Commandments. But when Roman Catholic Queen Mary assumed power, RC clergy arrested Hooper and, when he refused to recant his beliefs that priests had the right to marry and that Jesus is only spiritually (not corporally) present in the Eucharist, they burned him alive at the stake in 1555. ---Source: "Five English Reformers" by J.C. Ryle

[@joyceelmer131]

Wow. That was an education for this life long sheltered Baptist,who really didn’t know much about this Reformation. “Blessed Assurance , Jesus I Mine”. Thank you for this video.

[@raphaelfeneje486]

You're really a blessing to the body of Christ. Thanks for being a voice of truth. God bless your family and Ministry 🙏❤️✝️

[@davids7646]

those closing words brings me to tears for a bit. great video pastor gavin

[@rexlion4510]

We should think how life was for a Catholic family in the Middle Ages. Most likely they were serfs working a small plot of agricultural ground owned by a lord. Short on food, inadequately clothed, illiterate, and essentially broke. There is one old, worn pair of boots for the whole family, and for those boots they are grateful, for their neighbors have none at all. There are no schools for the serfs. There are no prospects for betterment. Winter is coming, the crop was poor, and the lord took most of it. The wife has a very bad chronic cough, but there are no medicines to be purchased even if they could be afforded. Down in the village, the church bells ring. It is time for Mass. It reminds the family that their only real hope for the future would be salvation through the Church, but the priest has taught them that they must prove their love for God with almsgiving and purchases of Masses or indulgences. Having no money to give, they despair of ever entering heaven's gates. But the priest (who is barely literate himself and who knows little more Christian doctrine than the serfs themselves) always seems to have plenty of food and liquor, and one of the sons secretly draws caricatures of a person in priest's garb but with a fox's head. The family has only ever seen one Bible, and that lone Bible always sits unopened near the altar of the nearby church. This is life in the Middle Ages. Were it not for the reformation, life could very well still be like that today. But the Protestant Reformation did take place. To the reformers we owe the publication of Bibles in the common tongue. To the reformers we owe a plentiful supply of Bibles. To the reformers we owe public schools, which they instituted for the express purpose of enabling the common man to read the Bible for himself. To the reformers we owe the knowledge that we can go directly to God for salvation and providence, bypassing the intermediary priest. To the reformers we owe the "Protestant work ethic," the "middle class," advances in science, transportation, and industry, and development of technology. To the reformers we owe seminaries for enlightenment of future clergy, which in turn led to enlightenment of the common folk. To the reformers we owe governments that guaranteed freedom of speech, general liberty, and justice (for a while at least). To the reformers we owe a society where Christians are free to discuss and dispute doctrine without fear of being burned at the stake. To the reformers we owe communion in both kinds, once a week or even every day if we should choose to receive it that often. Was the Reformation really necessary? Yes, a thousand times YES!

[@fellow_servant_jamesk8303]

Very Interesting perspective. Thanks for this write up

[@westdc]

Thanks for highlighting these important influences from the Reformation!

[@joeoleary9010]

There's actually an argument that the standard of living in Europe was *higher* before the Reformation. See Will Durant's book The Reformation.

[@chukwukaosakwe3646]

Man. What a statement. Thank you!

[@truthovertea]

I always had a very basic understanding of what the Catholic Church was doing to inspire a protest…now I have a much better grasp. Will be adding all the reads you mentioned to my list. Thank you so much for your research and efforts on this.

[@carolpagotto5395]

Right on brother, praise the Lord Jesus our Lord and Saviour. From Australia.

[@oldfriendsittingonabench437]

Gavin, Bless you and your work here and wherever the Lord sends you. While I was aware of some of the abuses of church leaders, again, you dig deeper to let us see how badly believers were treated. As an old man who grew up in the Baptist church, your last five minutes again confirmed in my heart that God offers the unbelievable gift of salvation for all who believe and follow Him. God Bless you, brother!

[@KnightOfFaith]

Gavin we appreciate your continued fight to show the classical tradition of Protestantism, keep up the good fight, and keep on with your rigorous research, maybe you can be an example of proper scholarship to the catholic and orthodox youtubers lol.

[@b.melakail]

Proper scholarship....all your best theology and philosophical discourse comes from the Catholic church

[@KnightOfFaith]

@@b.melakail Are you perhaps referring to the Church fathers? None of which were catholic in the modern sense? You cannot apply your lens of modern catholicism to people who lived in a time where the catholic church did not exist. Additionally there is a treasure trove of contemporary Protestant scholarship, for example CS Lewis, or Philip Schaff.

[@raphaelfeneje486]

​@@KnightOfFaith This dude is confused. He doesn't know Gavin is using his own churches scholarship to defend his point. He doesn't wants to use only Protestants sources so it doesn't look like he's being biased. These Roman Catholics claim all the church fathers but don't even follow them.

[@b.melakail]

@KnightOfFaith Thomas Aquinas is a modern? The church fathers either had a Western (Catholic) or Eastern Orthodox theology. Who of the patristics are protestant?

[@raphaelfeneje486]

@@b.melakail Can you point out the early church fathers that held the same view the Roman Catholics hold?? I want to see them.

[@tpw7250]

Happy Reformation Day! Thank you, Gavin, for this encouraging video.

[@turnertruckandtractor]

You are very gracious and well versed when discussing difficult issues. The impact of the reformation can not be overstated in its effects on both church and state. Luther was very intelligent and brave in his teaching and action. Some say he went too far and others say not far enough but he and Huss, Jerome, Tyndale and Wycliffe are all owed much gratitude.

[@Travis-tx7um]

Im in RCIA and i love you Gavin! God bless

[@PatrickInCayman]

Congrats!

[@fellow_servant_jamesk8303]

Thanks Gavin, Really looking forward to your upcoming book. God bless brother

[@davidon1984]

Thank you Dr. Ortland! The church universal needs to know this story.

[@dman7668]

What universal church? You all have different Churches. They are not one Church.

[@justusmorton6555]

​@@dman7668The fact that he said Church Universal and not universal church is key. The Church Universal is the body of all believers. Most protestants acknowledge this, as does Rome with the concept of separated brethren. The EO accept this less. Some Eastern Orthodox Christians accept those of other denominations as Christians but the EO Church is much stricter on 'no salvation outside the church' meaning if you aren't EO you are damned. Your comment misses the different view of the church as the body of all believers and assume instead that it is referring to a specific institution which is not how the OP meant it.

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

@@dman7668 God doesn't look at different buildings like you do. If a building doesn't say Catholic somewhere, you think it's not a valid church. God sees the body of Christ, a temple made w/out hands. That is the church on this earth.

[@dman7668]

@saintejeannedarc9460 Jesus already established his Church. You don't understand you cannot just start your own individual Church institutions. That isn't biblical. Leaders cannot be 👉SELF appointed. 👈

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

@@dman7668 Church leaders are God appointed. Even though the apostles cast lots to replace Judas w/ Mathius, God had other plans and hand picked Paul. Church leaders are called all the time by God. It takes a special person, called by God and obedient, like Gavin to become a pastor. If you can't recognize the call of God on his life, then your mind is set only on an institution. There are many Godly pastors serving churches and lives are being changed.

[@bradoway]

Thank you for your videos! I really enjoy the content and tone you take! The clear but gracious expression of truth and defense of an intellectually robust Protestantism has been greatly appreciated!

[@annapobst]

So very grateful for your generous, tidious and exceptional work here! You are irreplaceable

[@StephenJahn]

This was a powerful video. Thank you for your work, Dr. Ortlund.

[@Adam-ue2ig]

God bless you, your family and your ministry brother!

[@ryanbeaver6080]

I appreciate your hard work Pastor Ortlund! Thank you for doing these videos, I learn a ton from them!

[@ryanbeaver6080]

As Dr White always says… “who is the blessed man in Romans 4”. At the end of this video I could hear that being said… 🙏

[@twentyfourthrones]

Excellent as always and very well said! Thanks Dr. Gavin!

[@lynnmmartin]

Another winner! Keep up the good work, Dr. Ortlund!

[@psalm1readers]

Grateful for you, Gavin.

[@EyeToob]

Excellent video -- Thank you for shining the light on Church history and especially for presenting the good news about God's forgiveness so well

[@american1911]

Love your scholarly work and am thankful that you share it with us.

[@psalm1readers]

Thank you for this and for proclaiming the gospel at the end. Wonderful.

[@ModerateMic]

Great video like always Gavin! Happy Reformation day! Ecclesia reformata semper reformanda est secundum Verbum Dei✝️

[@jaggedlines2257]

Thankyou Gavin, for such a candid and honest review of early Roman Catholicism. I had limited understanding of practices such as Indulgences. The burning alive of reformation heretics in the name of Jesus Christ should never be forgotten. No wonder the Roman Catholic Church needed reforming. It is unfortunate that today there are many Roman Catholics who still regard Protestants as heretics. Nothing will persuade them to think otherwise, such is their bondage to their church. They are in need of further reformation. Obviously they were of the belief that Jesus Christ suported the middle-ages practice of Indulgences , is particularly galling. Apparently, this is the only true church that was founded by the Lord Jesus Christ. I wonder what Jesus thinks of His church who committed these acts in His name. Maybe I should accept that this is the only true church, that i am a heretic, repent, and become a Roman Catholic. I am sure they would welcome me with open arms.

[@srich7503]

We would. 👍🏻 But if you come over, remember we are a church full of sinners and we will always be in need of reforming. We dont deny that. If you find a perfect church that dont, please post it here so I can join tomorrow. BTW if you want a true understanding of teaching of the Catholic church you might want to learn it from the Catholic church and not from an ex-Catholic or otherwise. My mother is a JW telling others how Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostals… all believe and none of its true either. Please dont allow those mistakes to continue. One more thing… History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century, not only did they not agree but their list of would-be NT canons were GROWING during this time. So, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church, guided by the Holy Spirit, that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 5th century, just 75 years AFTER the council of Nicaea which began the Trinitarian doctrine and subsequent councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved these scriptures by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us, show us, who did? And if this church no longer exists today, what good is the text which came forth from her if she couldn't sustain herself?

[@jaggedlines2257]

​@@srich7503thankyou for your reply. And thankyou for the offer with regards to joining your church. I will politely decline, as I am more than happy to be involved in a church that preaches the correct Gospel, has weekly bible studies where Christians are not afraid to ask difficult questions, where we learn from the bible, not from a priest. It is a warm and loving church, accepting different points of view, agreeing to disagree at times, and always forgiving one another in love. We would welcome you any time, accept you as you are, and encourage you to search for truth that is within the pages of the Bible, not within the Hierarchy of a church. God bless you in your search.

[@countryboyred]

@@srich7503no you wouldn’t welcome them with open arms. You guys burned my ancestors at the stake. I know what Catholics are like behind closed doors.

[@srich7503]

@@countryboyred seems like you have the true church mixed up with practicing sinners. I noticed you didnt provide us with the church made up of perfect people sooooooo…… 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@J.F.331]

Thank you brother Ortlund! You are a treasure to the one true Church of Christ.

[@AlixPrappas]

Thank you as always for the work you do Gavin. May the Lord bless you, protect your family, and continue using you to wage war on the enemy and his kingdom of darkness, shining the light of the Almighty more and more. Let me begin by given some of my background. I grew up in a nominally Catholic home (we attended mass seldomly, mostly for holidays). I didn’t understand it when I was younger, but gave a sincere effort for my mothers sake to adopt the tradition. I did not know, let alone understand, the good news of salvation. As I entered adolescence, I decided to go the way of the world. After many, many years, the Lord revealed my sin to me and my deserving hell (praise His good name and His abounding grace. May I NEVER forget, though it is so often easy to do). He led me into a non-denom congregation until I saw it was too worldly, not reflective of what I read about His people and His commands in His word. I then became reformed as I studied reformation history a little more. Now-concluding with the backstory-I find myself considering Catholicism once again as well as Eastern Orthodoxy as I continue to delve deeper into history, studying the church fathers writings. With that all said, I want to make a general statement. It seems that due to the ghastly abuses of the western church during the medieval period, the Protestant reformation (and its foundational theology that vivified it) were over compensations in direct proportion to the abuses witnessed. The more I read the ecumenical councils with their canons, the letters of Irenaeus, Polycarp, Clement, and other early shepherds of the Lord’s people, the less worship, ecclesiology, and theology looks Protestant and the more it looks like Catholicism and Orthodoxy. “[But] shun divisions, as the beginning of evils. Do ye all follow your bishop, as Jesus Christ followed the Father, and the presbytery as the Apostles; and to the deacons pay respect, as to God's commandment. Let no man do aught of things pertaining to the Church apart from the bishop. Let that be held a valid eucharist which is under the bishop or one to whom he shall have committed it. Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be; even as where Jesus may be, there is the universal Church. It is not lawful apart from the bishop either to baptize or to hold a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve, this is well-pleasing also to God; that everything which ye do may be sure and valid.” Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans 8:1-2 (around 110AD) “And in proportion as a man seeth that his bishop is silent, let him fear him the more. For every one whom the Master of the household sendeth to be steward over His own house, we ought so to receive as Him that sent him. Plainly therefore we ought to regard the bishop as the Lord Himself.” Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians 6:1 (around 110AD) “Let the ancient customs in Egypt, Libya and Pentapolis prevail, that the Bishop of Alexandria have jurisdiction in all these, since the like is customary for the Bishop of Rome also. Likewise in Antioch and the other provinces, let the Churches retain their privileges. And this is to be universally understood, that if any one be made bishop without the consent of the Metropolitan, the great Synod has declared that such a man ought not to be a bishop. If, however, two or three bishops shall from natural love of contradiction, oppose the common suffrage of the rest, it being reasonable and in accordance with the ecclesiastical law, then let the choice of the majority prevail.” Canon 6 at the Council of Nicea (AD 325) These are just a sampling of church governance from-allegedly-the disciple of John the apostle and a canon from the first ecumenical council.

[@randyjj363]

Regarding Ignatius, I think it is important to remember the context he was writing from. Everyone in the early church thought that Jesus' return was imminent. Very soon. Probably within their lifetime. In light of that, it is reasonable to ask: was Ignatious writing with a vision for the Church to follow for millennia? Or was he urging the Christians to stay unified and not fall apart when the end was so close? I read him as a man with some mistaken ideas who wished, above all things, for the Church to be harmonious and ready for the imminent return of God. Hence, his emphasis on unifying under the Bishops and sticking together. If you knew you would die tomorrow, would the squabbles and differences you have with your brothers matter to you? Of course not. And I see a similar spirit animating the early church writings. It is better in such circumstances to be united in love underneath men who were hand-picked by the Apostles--or at least, disciples of such men. But I think they were trying to create a "government" that would last a few decades, not creating a system to rigidly follow for 100,000 years. I have no scholarly or theological credentials, so I can only offer it as an opinion. Remember God's promise that those who seek will find. May you have peace on the journey.

[@mattwilliams3902]

Excellent as expected. Your work in this area is so needed and your example of irenic conversation is second to none although Trent Horn and Matt Fradd probably match your charity

[@thomasatteck8476]

Thank you for this informative video. Understanding the reasons for the reformation of the church is so important especially in these dark days. Praying the Holy Spirit gives unction to the preaching of the Word so that many lost souls would be brought under the sound of the Gospel message and ultimately salvation

[@ApologiaCenter]

Excellent information, thank you once again Gavin

[@denniscrumbley8274]

As usual, an excellent presentation. Thank you!!

[@donovankelly7723]

Thank you for this video and for sharing your knowledge with us!

[@margyrowland]

Thank you Gavin for helping me to become a real Christian.

[@TruthUnites]

I am so glad my videos have been helpful to you!

[@theRockSalter]

The Saints are all Catholic..did they get it wrong Mary?

[@davidthenewtheologian7757]

@@theRockSaltershow us in the apostles or the ante nicene fathers prayers to saints prayers to the blessed Virgin Mary and veneration of icons?

[@theRockSalter]

​@@davidthenewtheologian7757I would say do your own research if you want to learn about those things. I'm off to say the rosary! Cheers

[@davecorns7630]

​​@@theRockSalterorthodox church? there are orthodox saints too

[@SpaceCadet4Jesus]

Thank you Dr. Ortlund for this reformation overview. I've had a murky understanding for reasons of reformation. Your spotlight has elucidated quite clearly those reasons and you provided more material for investigation. Thank you so much, brother! 👍

[@ora_et_labora1095]

Crazy good video. Thank you pastor

[@onepingonlyplease]

Loved this so much I listened twice! Thank you…

[@AnnaWestfalia]

Appreciate your work and spirit as always.

[@soulfulmeditation.smoothre7746]

Thank you Dr. Ortlund!

[@delbert372]

Another excellent video brother!

[@7lillie]

Living in the UK its fascinating that just stating facts about the crusades, the inquisition, the burning of protestant martyrs, forced conversions of jews etc can't be mentioned without apologising for offending sensibilities- we were taught these facts in secular history classes. Its so strange to see Catholic apologists on KZbin deny and downplay this, while trying to get the next flaky high profile young American evangelical to convert.

[@fellow_servant_jamesk8303]

Interesting. Good to know.

[@theRockSalter]

If it wasn't for the Crusades we would all be bowing to Allah today. What about the burning of Catholics and all the evils and abuses in the Protestant churches. It works both ways

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

@@theRockSalter There was such an imbalance of power w/ the early reformers. To talk about when protestants finally had enough numbers to fight back, rather than just be martyred is not at all an equal playing field. It's like a kid finally getting a lucky strike against an adult.

[@toddthacker8258]

The Crusades didn't stop the Islamic invasion of Europe. It was stopped by Jan Sobieski (thanks Poland!) in the East and, to a lesser extent, Charles "the Hammer" Martel (thanks France!) in the West.

[@theRockSalter]

The battle of Lepanto

[@DrBob-gr5ru]

The history everyone used to know in the pre-secular Protestant West.

[@JonathanRedden-wh6un]

Thank you for your presentation of the gospel at the end of this most informative video.

[@uzomaobasi3767]

Great video Gavin!

[@jennerial]

We love your work - keep going ❤😇

[@josehuerta4398]

God bless you for all you do your in my prayers

[@joshd3502]

"Ad fontes" a relevant cry during the reformation and today. Always wise to go back to the sources.

[@ruudboy7800]

New favorite channel heard some Catholic theology from Trent Horn but I just knew purgatory and indulgences didn't sit right with me. It seems the Catholic church in the beginning was a great church but just kept changing little by little away from scripture. Thanks for the video!!!

[@TruthHasSpoken]

"kept changing little by little away from scripture. " Hmmm. Where does scripture contradict purgatory and indulgences?

[@ruudboy7800]

@@TruthHasSpoken where can you find purgatory and indulgences in scripture?

[@TruthHasSpoken]

@@ruudboy7800 I has asked: Where does scripture contradict purgatory and indulgences?

[@ruudboy7800]

@@TruthHasSpoken Jesus dieing on the cross for our sins contradicts indulgences and the story of the rich man going to hell asking for a drop of water contradicts purgatory

[@TruthHasSpoken]

​@@ruudboy7800"Jesus dying on the cross for our sins contradicts indulgences " Nope. " the story of the rich man going to hell asking for a drop of water contradicts purgatory" Nope Don't you have a verse in all of scripture showing indulgences and purgatory contradicting scripture ?? Try again.

[@user-ch4ex3yy4l]

Thanks, brother Ortland.

[@Solideogloria00]

Praise the Lord for your live and ministry, Dr. Ortlund. Love your heart and you scholarship.

[@ike991963]

Preach the Good News, brother. Thank you!

[@melissamulkey1033]

This video is good. Thank you for so richly pouring into these topics to the benefit of all brothers and sisters in Christ❤ I just learned tonight that Catholicism still practices plenary indulgences. Its part of the catechism even. Would love to see a video about and hear your thoughts about these modern day indulgences.

[@byonnoyb]

m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5Okln5oZbhsmKc

[@norala-gx9ld]

As a cradle Catholic who drifted away yet felt drawn back to the Faith, I’m grateful for channels like yours which helped me investigate the history of Roman Catholicism and brought me into reformed catholicity (ie historic Protestantism).

[@thepalegalilean]

That's a shame. I'm praying for you!!😢

[@morghe321]

​@thepalegalilean save your prayers. 😅 they're not needed.

[@thepalegalilean]

@@morghe321 I disagree. Anyone who rejects Christ needs prayers.

[@morghe321]

@@thepalegalilean noraa didn't say he/she rejects Christ.

[@thepalegalilean]

@@morghe321 Didn't need to. Leaving the Church is rejecting Christ. You don't need an open statement declaring you reject Christ. As the saying goes, action speaks louder than words.

[@Eben_Haezer]

Thank You brother for this video

[@doubtingthomas9117]

Happy Reformation Day!

[@markliebenow4340]

This is so, so good, Dr. Ortlund! I am just now starting to watch your videos. I wish every Christ follower could watch this video on The Reformation. God bless you, and keep on going!

[@brentonstanfield5198]

Beautiful reminder at the end there of the purpose of the reformation… to recapture the profoundness of the grace in what Christ has done for us.

[@dman7668]

Here is another beautiful reminder, it didn't actually work Brenton. Not when the rubber hit the road of life.

[@toddthacker8258]

It worked for me, Dman!

[@brentonstanfield5198]

@patriceagulu8315 - Matthew 10:34-36: Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. The word of God is a sword that cuts to the heart. It causes those who do not want to hear it to rage seek to destroy those who tell the truth.

[@brentonstanfield5198]

@@dman7668 - Semper Reformanda

[@theeternalsbeliever1779]

The fruits obviously prove that the Reformation didn't even come close to understanding the grace of God. If it did, Protestant churches wouldn't all be preaching their own version of who Jesus was or what grace is. It's pretty clear that none of the Reformers really understood what grace is, otherwise they wouldn't have engaged in a theological and quite literal war against each other.

[@ryangahman4998]

Amen, amen and amen. Continue to expose the truth, brother, no matter what men who refuse to come to grips with it will say. You are doing a great service to the church as a modern reformer and standing in the line of men like Hus and Luther!

[@andreastarks2780]

Thank you for sharing the beautiful story about Katherine Parr

[@patriciapost962]

Excellent ✝️ Thank you

[@loganwillett2835]

Awesome video Gavin! So important for the modern church to look at the history of the reformation. Completely off topic, but would love to hear your take on the idea of annihilationism/conditional immortality at some point.

[@noahbowman4762]

Thank you, Gavin, for another great video. Your channel serves as a constant reminder of how to do theology and apologetics in a very nuanced and charitable way!

[@zacharyevans8152]

14:00 This is a macrocosm of my interactions with RCCs in the comments on YT. They twist what you are trying to say or read something into your response that is absolutely not there. And I am very careful when I type a response to a video or to a reply. It's easy to be careful when you are typing vs thinking and talking on the fly in a debate setting for example. Hey Gavin, I love your channel. It's always a breath of fresh air. I have been playing with an idea lately of how Roman Catholicism would survive a world-ending event such as an meteor strike or nuclear Armageddon. My scenario entails the obliteration of everything except a few unordained non-denominational and Catholic Christians, the 4 NT Gospels and the Pentateuch. No Rome, no pope, no clergy, priests, no churches of any kind. No libraries, internet or other literature. Humans are just launched back into paleolithic times and have the aforementioned books. Can Roman Catholicism function in this scenario or even survive it and if it can, would it still metamorphosize back into modern Catholicism as we know it now? My assumption is naturally "no". This scenario would spell the end of the RCC, but not the end of "mere Christianity". The point of this thought experiment is to convey the excess and distractions of the traditions of the RCC and that without all its beauty, they have nothing to stand on. It seems like the Catholic clergy are the engine that make the wheels turn on the Catholic limousine. While other Christians power their cars with Scripture and the love of Christ.

[@lellachu1682]

The Catholic Church is powered by Christ. It cannot fail.

[@zacharyevans8152]

@@lellachu1682 From GotQuestions: The Roman Catholic Church contends that its origin is the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ in approximately AD 30. The Catholic Church proclaims itself to be the church that Jesus Christ died for, the church that was established and built by the apostles. Is that the true origin of the Catholic Church? On the contrary. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles. In the New Testament, there is no mention of the papacy, worship/adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, or Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix), petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. The Catholic Church has to raise its traditions to par with the Gospels in order to justify these non-Biblical dogmas. Which is why Roman Catholics are brainwashed to abhor Sola Scriptura so much. So, if the origin of the Catholic Church is not in the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, what is the true origin of the Catholic Church? For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine provided religious toleration with the Edict of Milan in AD 313, effectively lifting the ban on Christianity. Later, in AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine and his successors promoted progressively became a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism. Following are a few examples: Most Roman Catholic beliefs and practices regarding Mary are completely absent from the Bible. Where did those beliefs come from? The Roman Catholic view of Mary has far more in common with the Isis mother-goddess religion of Egypt than it does with anything taught in the New Testament. Interestingly, the first hints of Catholic Mariology occur in the writings of Origen, who lived in Alexandria, Egypt, which happened to be the focal point of Isis worship. The Lord’s Supper being a consumption of the literal body and blood of Jesus is not taught in the Bible. One cannot take the words literally when He says this is My body. The same goes as we should not take literally His words when He says He is a door. Jesus was using metaphor to allude to His sacrifice on the cross. Hence why it is written "he broke the bread" after referring to it as His body. He broke His body for us and poured out His blood for us. The idea that bread and wine are miraculously transformed into the literal body and blood of Jesus (transubstantiation) is not biblical. However, several ancient pagan religions, including Mithraism, which was very popular in the Roman Empire, had some form of “theophagy” (the eating of one’s god) as a ritualistic practice. Roman Catholicism has “saints” one can pray to in order to gain a particular blessing. For example, Saint Gianna Beretta Molla is the patron saint of fertility. Francis of Assisi is the patron saint of animals. There are multiple patron saints of healing and comfort. Nowhere is even a hint of this taught in Scripture. Just as the Roman pantheon of gods had a god of love, a god of peace, a god of war, a god of strength, a god of wisdom, etc., so the Catholic Church has a saint who is “in charge” over each of these and many other categories. Many Roman cities had a god specific to the city, and the Catholic Church provided “patron saints” for cities as well. The idea that the Roman bishop is the vicar of Christ, the supreme leader of the Christian Church, is utterly foreign to the Word of God. The supremacy of the Roman bishop (the papacy) was created with the support of the Roman emperors. While most other bishops (and Christians) resisted the idea of the Roman bishop being supreme, the Roman bishop eventually rose to supremacy, again, due to the power and influence of the Roman emperors. After the western half of the Roman Empire collapsed, the popes took on the title that had previously belonged to the Roman emperors-Pontifex Maximus. Many more examples could be given. These four should suffice in demonstrating the origin of the Catholic Church. Of course, the Roman Catholic Church denies the pagan origin of its beliefs and practices. The Catholic Church disguises its pagan beliefs under layers of complicated theology and church tradition. Recognizing that many of its beliefs and practices are utterly foreign to Scripture, the Catholic Church is forced to deny the authority and sufficiency of Scripture. The origin of the Catholic Church is the tragic compromise of Christianity with the pagan religions that surrounded it. Instead of proclaiming the gospel and converting the pagans, the Catholic Church “Christianized” the pagan religions and “paganized” Christianity. By blurring the differences and erasing the distinctions, the Catholic Church made itself attractive to the idolatrous people of the Roman Empire. One result was the Catholic Church becoming the supreme religion in the Roman world for centuries. However, another result was the most dominant form of Christianity apostatizing from the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the true proclamation of God’s Word. Second Timothy 4:3-4 declares, “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”

[@ro6ti]

The Reformation was a watershed moment in history. I was once wandering toward Eastern Orthodoxy, but the ignorance of basic facts about Martin Luther and the Reformation and really basic things of history among most Eastern Orthodox pulled me back West. Roman Catholics aren't much better... it's really odd for how educated and intelligent people can be, yet they adopt a "twanged" version of history... stick with reality.

[@boatcaptain6288]

They might tell you that Luther said the "Greeks" Orthdox were the true Christians but that comment is out of context: he was condemning the papists for taking the Cup away from the laity & said that, in respect to that and THAT ONLY, the Orthodox were better Christians

[@ro6ti]

@@boatcaptain6288 Ha, no it was not qualified like that. His statement was general. Don't try and throw "context gravy" on this one.

[@littlemas2]

I just watched the Luther movie last night. It was really good at highlighting these things.

[@ottovonbaden6353]

Which one? The one with Joseph Fienes?

[@littlemas2]

@@ottovonbaden6353 Yes

[@jordanmartin1932]

Anyone who doubts the viciousness of the persecution isn't paying attention. My tradition (anabaptism/mennonite) has a book called the martyrs mirror that has plenty of stories of persecution. It is deeply ingrained in our tradition. Of course some of that persecution came from other reforming groups which is also sad.

[@ayobithedark2772]

Hey bro, my particular branch of Mennonites needs reforming really bad. We're working on it, but prayer would be great

[@jordanmartin1932]

May I ask what strand that may be? Just curious if we are similar.

[@ayobithedark2772]

@@jordanmartin1932 Old colony Mennonites, my ancestors migrated to Canada from Russia in 1899

[@jordanmartin1932]

Ah yes I'm quite familiar with that group. I belong to the Swiss Mennonite side. Part of a group called the Midwest Mennonite fellowship here in Ontario. Are you familiar with that?

[@mariomene2051]

14:20 He doesn't care about righteousness, because he's already in the "One True Holy Apostolic Church"--that's what he worships, and it is not an uncommon Catholic error.

[@fw2101jacobinsleight]

Thanks Gavin.

[@thecalixtos6744]

Hello, I thank you for sharing all your wonderful knowledge. It has been extremely helpful as I delve in to church history. For someone who is new to church history, what books would you recommend I look at?