Professor Kerry Brown | This House Believes the West is Hypocritical Towards China | Cambridge Union

Professor Kerry brown speaks as the third proposition for the motion in the Debating Chamber on Thursday 5th December 2024.
With tensions rising between the West and China, this debate examines their relationship in greater detail. China’s increasing position on the global stage has led to much criticism from Western nations; however, given Europe’s colonial past, some feel that these criticisms ring hollow.
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Cambridge Union Society Debate Info:
In The Chair: Sammy McDonald (Incoming President)
Taking the Minutes: Leonas Pausch
The Debate Motion title is always preceded in context by the phrase “This House Would”, “This Would Believes”, or simply “This House”.
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Six 10 minute speeches are given, alternating between each Proposition & Opposition speaker of the Debate Motion.
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Floor speeches are made by audience members at intervals during the Debate discussing support for Proposition, Opposition or Abstention.
(The Union rarely publishes Floor Speeches due to Release Form arrangements within membership contracts)
At the end of the Debate, all Speakers and audience members cast their vote as they leave the Debating Chamber through doors labelled “AYES” & “NOES”, with the central door exit representing Abstentions.
The Chair calls an announcement shortly after the Debate to confirm the votes.
Full Debate:
• This House Believes th...
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Thumbnail Photographer: Nordin Catic
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PROFESSOR KERRY BROWN
Professor Kerry Brown is Professor of Chinese Studies and director of the Lau China Institute at King’s College London. He has previously worked as Senior Fellow and Head of the Asia Programme at Chatham House. From 1998-2005, he worked at the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office, including as First Secretary at the British Embassy in Beijing.
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[@MichaelEthanChen]

I find it interesting when the West criticized China on Human Rights when... -Gaza -How are Native Americans treated in the past and today in America? -How are Aboriginal Australians treated in the past and today? -How were the Muslims treated during the War on Terror? (Guantanamo Bay and Diego Garcia). -Did the people of Hong Kong have the right to vote during British rule? Anyhow, stop using Human Rights when the West does not grant any Rights or selective Rights when it suits them.

[@markc6140]

The collective West has no moral authority to lecture other countries about human rights or whatever values or freedom of bullshits. Remember the Opium wars, Britain was the drug lord then. Damned the Brits.

[@chriswong9158]

Western phrase 'do as I say not as I do' is seen in it's full color...

[@javasoy]

Not to mention the systematic exploitation of people and natural resource of Africa even well into the late 20th century.

[@bigblue6083]

“It was the ancestors that did all these, which has nothing to do with the current generation”

[@markc6140]

@@bigblue6083 current generation free of blame? never because their arrogant mindset still the same as what the collective West had done to the sufferings of people in Middle East.

[@michaelpattison8543]

Hypocritical? It’s more like hysterical hubris. China is not our enemy.

[@isoboy2125]

@@michaelpattison8543 surely people at the Cambridge realise that the human rights issue in Xinjiang is meant to be a political tool?

[@ajs-qv5fe]

@@isoboy2125 what human rights issue in xinjiang and what solid, verified evidence do you have to your accusation ? icymi, china didnt attacked any country with gunboats and kill its ppl, occupy its lands, force drugs opium on them for 150 years, killing more than 50 million ppl with it - at the moment whats the west doing about an open genocide in GAZA ?

[@mhm2908]

@ I very much doubt that they do. The inclination of students is to naively champion human rights without any world view since they have little or no world experience.

[@Way827]

@@isoboy2125 What human rights issue in Xinjiang??? I'd rather be a Muslim living there than in any nation affected by the US, UK or Israel.

[@ajs-qv5fe]

@@isoboy2125 what human rights issue in xinjiang ?

[@johnhopkins494]

I can never understand those who expected China to become the west. For thousands of years the Chinese have debated how to live a good life and how to govern their country. From Taoism to Chinese Legalism there exists a huge range of extremely sophisticated philosophical and governance systems going back, in most cases, to the Warring States period. If you want to know what China will do you in the future and how it will develop you need to look at its history and ideas, not those of the west.

[@newtonw1008]

It could have happened…what degree? Look at japan…they did modernise…but they’re not western 😂

[@MikeyJJJ]

@@newtonw1008 the Chinese have arguably modernized better and faster than the Japanese, and they’re still accelerating their modernization

[@chekim2]

@@newtonw1008 The Japanese system is nothing modern, it's a facist-style society owned by oligarchs and essentially governed by one party since WWII. It's constitution was NOT written by its own people. It has a useless emperor (but no empire) and everyone pretends to respect him. Which part of Japan is modern you tell me? It does have modern industries and infrastructure, but many other countries have too, Chinese have better.

[@hehe-mq2bk]

I agree

[@hehe-mq2bk]

@@newtonw1008 China has modernized and they are not western.

[@robertng2398]

At least this man tells the truth and is honest about it. Thank you..

[@stwadoo]

I left the UK and moved to China 11 years ago with my Chinese wife. The difference between real China and the China represented in western discourse is just shocking. They have a much kinder and more functional society and a political system that is ironically far more capable of delivering "for the people" than that in any of the four western countries in which I previously lived.

[@flyingsnow1228]

Excellent points raised! I particularly agree with two key ideas 1. Western countries do not provide a viable model for China to learn from that aligns with its unique history, culture, and complexity. Attempting to replicate such models risks failure, as seen in the case of Russia 2.The Western narrative about “China’s way” is primarily driven by self-interest, rather than any genuine concern for the well-being or interests of the Chinese people, so totally hypocritical.

[@philostreet781]

What UK really wanted was an international caste system where China and other non-western nations remain at the lowest rung! Isn’t it? 7:50

[@cyansadventures]

@philostreet781 Yes and it continued into the US. Read George Kennan's 1948 PPS23, section on "Far East". Always wanted to keep Asia poor.

[@mjmf1430]

Yes.

[@kaiki8490]

True

[@fwang3695]

Only to find out the uk themselves are sinking into the bottom

[@meimiaolin2581]

Is it not hypocritical to accuse China of human rights issues when there is an ongoing genocide in Gaza?

[@Western_Decline]

Western civilization: "We must ban TikTok so the student protestors don't talk about Gaza."

[@aoeu256]

Also Australia, if you believe that you have human rights issues in China why doesn't Australia take in more Chinese?

[@YenzikovALCherasLegend]

There is pure hard evidence that the West is complicit in the genocide of the Gazian.

[@sed9406]

The so-called human rights news from xinjiang is just to cover up the fact that the giant concentration camps in Gaza are in fact.

[@chriswong9158]

@@aoeu256 How much, in the hundreds of millions Chinese would love to live in Australia, tomorrow.

[@maun123a]

Keep in mind. Chine is at the early stage of industrilization. Chinese labors have better rights than English labors when Great braintan was at the early stage of industrilization. Chinese labors have fairer education opportunities, they are mostly covered with public healthcare, unemployment benefits, and retirement benefits. The Chinese government has been working on to extending the benefits to more Chinese people.

[@Andy-P]

Chinese Goverment keep losr of the wealth. They only care for the middile class & rich in Tier 1 & 2 cities

[@chew5461-l7f]

@6:27 Why must China follow or adopt the Western system of government??? What have the Western leaders done for their citizens? Have these Western leaders/politicians listened to their citizens or they listened only to their own bank accounts?? Look at the weekly street protests against G in US/UK/EU, has any Western leaders listened?? China leaders listen to their citizens and Pres Xi has done so much to uplift the well being of the Chinese people ... as well as help the poorer developing countries outside China.

[@kaiki8490]

If China adopted the western model, then China will have to exploit poorer countries like USA today

[@primozlampic9574]

They adopted communism, a system that worked nowhere.

[@robintan502]

Also observe and study the disaster relief efforts and national spirit that is happening now in Tibet, while contrasting this with the disaster happening in LA. Common destiny, common prosperity vs all man for themselves

[@kaiki8490]

Good point

[@fwang3695]

“ we are going to double the rental rate “ LA home owners whose properties are not destroyed

[@samsun01]

When Nancy Pelosi said "Beautiful sight to behold" when HK was on fire, this is not how a leader should behave. So, the L.A. Fire is, technically a "Beautiful Sight to Behold", at least according to Nancy Pelosi.

[@dexterdr.7020]

作为中国人，关于香港、我同意你的看法、身同感受，但与此同时，对LA人民的遭受的灭顶之灾也不应该轻佻嘲笑。Nancy Pelosi确实不是好东西，更加不应该向她学习。太掉份了。

[@yxingo7368]

I just curious about how can Adrian Zenz get his Phd in Cambridge, by simply just making things up in China.

[@Dapicomp]

the greatest difference b2n western style democracy and the Chinese system is that in the former, the leader is concerned about being judged by his contemporaries, but in the latter, the leader is concerned about being judged by history, often revised by ppl generations later. that's what having a 4000 year history ingraines in your soul. as an example, if you go to the west lake in hangzhou, zhejiang, you'll see two iron figures kneeling in front of a temple. they're a man and his wife. the man was a prime minister in the Song dynasty, 800 years ago, and he was the most notorious traitor in Chinese history. the figures were made so they would forever kneel down for their treason and till this day visitors from all over the country spit on them.

[@kianh1903]

@@Dapicomp lots agree there

[@fatdoi003]

the greatest difference is the west always change governing parties but hardly changed policies but china cannot change governing party but can quickly change their policies

[@richardparker1338]

Drivel. There is very little left of democracy in the West. The leaders are only interested in making money for themselves and the powerful corporations. Democracy exists for a day, then it's carry on as before.

[@fwang3695]

@@fatdoi003in the west, politicians come and go, their donors are there forever and this is why policy won’t change

[@WalkOverHotCoal]

Incredible to watch Professor Kerry Brown speaks for the entire 11 minutes without cue-cards. While I don't wish to wheel out "racism" to simply the argument, I do believe that the west is so used to be the top dog that it resents seeing the underdog becomes successful. I shall use a domestic situation to put my point across. You can argue for all you like, the men ate still the king of the castle in a marriage. Have you ever wondered why men choose to marry someone who is less educated, earning less, and has a less assertive personality? If you understand my point, then you know what I am talking about in relation to the often rocky relationship between the west and China. And the west would dearly want China to be that in that "female" submissive role. The west became enlightened during the 17th and 18th centuries. Technologies and notable inventions helped the west to stream ahead of the rest of the world. However, we must not forget that capitalism is NOT invented by the west. Remember the Silk Route? Well, China was a fine example of a capitalist. The mastery of silk trades made China rich and powerful, but not powerful like what we know how the west is. China didn't set out to conquer territories. Instead, it used trades to dominate the nations on the Silk Route. Sound familiar> Well, the Belt and Road Initiative is a bit like that. The British Empire grew rich and powerful at the expense of China. The most disgusting part of the British Empire was the use of Opium to poison and to subdue a large part of the Chinese population. So that is ugly capitalism in anyone's book. If we know a little about the British Empire, then we should know about how Hong Kong became the crown jewel of the British Empire. And Hong Kong is the perfect example to explain the relationship between the modern day China and the west. The British and the west still believes that the current day China can be corralled and cajoled by means of the democracy excuses. So essentially Hong Kong was the last stance the British Empire against the Chinese people....and the British and the west lost !

[@gelinrefira]

Capitalism is very much invented by the west. Trade IS NOT capitalism. Just because you trade, you have merchants does not make you capitalistic.

[@chekim2]

Well said. These arrogant but frog-in-a-hole intellectual simply cannot see reality even when he has lived in China for decades. Still believe that China wanted to learn from the West but the West has nothing to offer....... come on Mr. Brown, try to govern your own county with some success before lecturing anybody anywhere.

[@GenghisX999]

Listening to this good Professor speak about China, the Chinese realize how absolutely ignorant the west is about China, its history and its intentions and goals for the future..

[@primozlampic9574]

Yes, communism should rule the World, shouldn't it?😱

[@chekim2]

This speaker pretends to do some introspection (with some honesty we should say) but at the same time spit out the usual racist commentary. - No labor law: try to run a company in China and he'll learn the laws - Terrible human right: yeah right, dare him compare to what the UK, EU and US did over the centuries, and still today in the Middle-East? Why the premise that China must learn from the West that earned its supremacy from collective violence, cultural looting, mass genocide, steal land, trade slaves? He is a despicable intellectual who is publishing books that continue to spread racist viewpoints and naive assumptions. Poor UK.

[@koujhgloup]

The bar is pretty low now thanks to the relentless anti China propaganda by the western msm and government

[@hongqi5734]

China has been reforming ever since its inception in 1949, and is still reforming but at its own pace and direction. And definitely not the Western System which is not compatible with the Chinese Culture.

[@huangec]

@@hongqi5734 actually I believe that the current system in China is closer to the democracy of the ancient Athenians than any country is today.

[@hongqi5734]

@huangec - To me, it resembles Confucianism infused with contemporary society and lifestyle.

[@ianoliver3130]

@@hongqi5734 china has lifted 1.5 billion people out of poverty in just 40years. Free healthcare and education. Compare theat with the plight of the average American over the same time period. China hasn't started any war for at least 2000 years. USA has 986 military bases around the world - 123 of them surround china. China has just 1 military base in the med. America sees China as a "threat" because it it outperforming US in it's economic sphere - it should be congratulating China and learning from it's economic model. In China big business is subservient to the government and the national interest. In the west government is subservient to big business.

[@huangec]

@@hongqi5734 yes certainly Confucianist, but in the context of democracy I'd say it's closer than other countries today to the original concept of this.

[@primozlampic9574]

The CCP who rules China, has nothing to do with traditional Chinese culture and civilisation.

[@lowcc7602]

Chinese is a civilisation and that is why it had 5000 years of history. How could a country of as long may be 2500 could come and teach others of older civilisation?

[@primozlampic9574]

China is a communist country today. Can you accept it? It's not a total new information, is it, but not a good one, either.

[@lyin4rmu]

china being strong isnt an anomaly. what is an anomaly is the last century when china was weak.

[@Marie-Hélène-p3f]

Strange that noted British scientists like Joseph Needham have for decades been doing intense researches and publishing their findings on China, yet very little of that got through to the general public, especially the younger generations.

[@胡]

The fourth point is the most fundamental, which encompasses the first three, that the West’s system is nothing to be regarded as worth copying. I’d like to add that many so-called rights that my country is supposed to be violating are just called rights, but there are two things to remember. First, calling something rights doesn’t automatically prove it’s worthiness (gun? unregulated speech which is just another kind of gun?). Second, banning something as rights doesn’t mean making it automatic punishable, rather, at least in China, often means not readily provided by default, as a means to contain the potential. Practically you can do anything in China as a Japanese can in his country.

[@kshen7485]

Pirates never have value.

[@MathTidbits]

piracy evolves into colonialism,into capitalism and militarism.

[@raymondtay9442]

​@@MathTidbitsand finally into almost nothing. Once upon a time, the sun never set in the British Empire. Once upon a time Brittainia ruled the waves, but today Little Britain waived the rules.

[@wahlumng5192]

Prof Kerry is a fair man when he analyses the achievement of China. When all of us are like him there is no need for animosity.

[@fatdoi003]

if the west can repeat only one thing china has achieved in the last 2 decade, the PM or president will be the GOAT

[@koujhgloup]

All of us like think him is a lofty goal, how about 10% of westerners think like him … in next 10 years assuming msm tones down their propaganda against China, which is a big assumption though.

[@freemanol]

I hope this forum continues. There's a high chance the government will eventually mark these speeches as threat to national security

[@A-fz5kx]

"FREEDOM OF SPEECH"

[@altamontchin15]

The guy with the red hair in bored wishing he was somewhere else

[@prajnasamadhi60]

Appalled by his red lips.

[@andrewlim7751]

Yes, it's plain to see. 😂😂

[@chekim2]

He has probably heard Mr. Brown's bull sh!t speech more than once and thought that he'd rather bite his nail and play with hair to distract himself from the usual BS.

[@primozlampic9574]

😂 And he is right‼️

[@wenling3487]

Even Chinese would agree that Enlightenment was great; but we should NEVER forget, nothing can change human nature!

[@kshen7485]

No matter how correct, great and glorious you would be before, you doomed to fail unless you continue to reform or modify yourself. There is no "The end of history" in our human evolution process.

[@williamdickson5696]

china does not practice unrestrained capitalism. It has a socialist market economy. What is he talking about

[@chriswong9158]

Henry Kissinger Quote: “To be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal.” Henry Kissinger since 1970's is China PRC friend that the Chinese listen to....

[@chriswong9158]

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War The West has been succumbing around the world since 2000's

[@epsilonlam]

Brilliantly said! In sports we learn about fair play but in politics it's fair game.

[@ikkong8436]

It's good to hear Prof's first-hand in-depth knowledge of China from his own experience rather than the twisted hypocritical views of many from the US and the west who have never set foot on China.

[@grouchypatch9185]

Human rights abuse? Aptly described west foreign policies towards the developing world.

[@andrewlau9873]

I appreciate the speaker telling the truth. The first and second steps to improve competitiveness are to identify problems, then to admit having these problems.

[@pavedmaloney1157]

what a bunch of HYPOCRITES

[@EmersonLee192]

As a Chinese, I thank you all for your concern and your help in supervising our progress. We certainly have much more to improve in certain areas with your countries as a good example. While some criticisms are completely baseless, some of them do offer valid suggestions for improvement. Hope we can help each other grow together. P.S. I am not an antisemitic communist spy. Though I'll take antisemitic as a compliment...

[@JW-rx7ul]

That sounded like a pretty honest assessment. What's the conclusion? What should the west, in particular the UK, do differently going forward?

[@fffuu4444]

They sailed the seven seas, occupied prime real estate on this planet earth by displacing natives with the barrel of a gun, yet today they go around bad mouthing others, as if they were angels.

[@rusticbox9908]

A very very honest man. He was there, he understands the real issue and he saw.

[@wwbren]

i thought they have truly repented but it's just a debate.

[@4-SeasonNature]

Well done, Prof. Brown.

[@alimmuhammad9275]

China surpassing the West would be as much of a threat to colonial powers even if it had a parliamentary multiparty democracy.

[@primozlampic9574]

Not true‼️

[@oraclebone2633]

From 1:00 on, just notice what the one person sitting on the chair's seat was doing ... The chairman was deeply stirred by Professor's words, which clearly upset or went against his beliefs...

[@Hipstove]

The fact that young people in Britain are not even curious about 1/5th of worlds humanity says a lot

[@richardhuang1194]

The chair boy looks weird

[@ElainEmail-m7q]

Ask Corporate America companies this question , they can do anything they want in their strategies, AI designs, their phones' listening and profiling devices, their social media platforms and targeting , their lobbying powers in each level of government and of course, buy the Double Standards influences in media channels, say in the past 40 years or so ! .... Then the answer is quite clear : no one outside the G7 and EU could openly spak up the truths of the "DOUBLE STANDARDS fill the money and power in this unfair world" .....

[@jmhventure1062]

Two words to sum up western democracy.. Selfish Democracy. Look at how you treat Africa to understand how selfish your democracy is.

[@barrynichols2846]

China is still a socialist country. And human rights are not as bad as said.

[@themindsojourner]

Being a hard left also not easy in the west. I think every country has the very right to choice what system do they want.

[@FrancoiseYoung-c1m]

U are a beautiful & honest human being . Love u more 👍🇨🇳❤️

[@chengsweelim2765]

Good analysis of Western hypocrisy

[@nigelralphmurphy2852]

EVERY nation's foreign policy is based on self interest.

[@ianoliver3130]

No , only in the west. Who have always seen Africa, Asia etc as resource rich continents ripe for exploitation -beginning with their people pirated as slaves. The BRICS alliance is based on trade for the mutual benefit of all! ( I know -hard for a westerner to get their head around!)

[@AndrewYouTubehandle]

Enjoyable to listen to. You can debate and discuss his points, agree or disagree, for example blame for what happened in Russia. However, the things that stand out for me are: 1) when he talks about "we" he is using a poor foundation, who is "we". Stick to "I" or use specifics such as policies. 2) China has a long history and will find its way. That's pretty self evident. More useful is understanding the reasons for differences in decisions and directions which he was very light on, even got a short talk. 3) The election of Donald Trump (now convicted felon) has reduced the value of what might be seen as a "Western model". 4) What is the "so what"? What is the speaker suggesting be done. An airing of views is great, and great that he can that. However, without any "so what", any "lessons learned", "what should he done differently" the views expressed will dissolve like a mist at sunrise.

[@Wing-ix6wj]

He probably dare not to give the solution - go socialism like China...;)...There is no hope for capitalism to continue the success as it did before. Socialism government + capitalsm market seems to be a more efficient and stable system.

[@peterhe7887]

Nothing wrong with capitalism as an economic model, the root cause of the decline of the west is it evolves into predatory economic model that ‘eating its own flesh’. It weaken the nation by starting to loot its own. Government is helplessly losing its ability to function as a state. It’s much easier for a smaller sized country like Britain to make adjustments to recover its economy and better its people, but it’s much too difficult for a larger country in the west to do so. There have never been for lack of talent in Britain to figure out, but do they have the will? Btw, what he said about the relationship between Britain and China in 18th century was chock full of BS, British style!

[@bpn6c1]

Prof. Browns theory of a better capitalism system in China is unique and better way to say. But it is a declining rather than developing in the UK

[@nigelralphmurphy2852]

Village democracy (sic) lasted about as long as it takes to break wind. It was a joke and just a huge insult to anyone with any degree of intelligence and decency.

[@hehe-mq2bk]

who is the guy on the chair? he's distracting?

[@BestFitSquareChannel]

Welcome back Ricc

[@kb.e3762]

china themselves say they are not individualistic like the west but communitarian so how can they be capitalist?? china is not capitalist, socialist at best but i'd argue a communist.

[@Stta-p5q]

Is the CU president auditioning for the next Joker's role?

[@freefree1219]

It's hard for ADHD to sit there for so long.

[@miyuqiii]

Even if hypocritical, they are true. It's a logical fallacy to dismiss something solely because the person is hypocritical. Do as I say not as I do.

[@henbane2247]

There are labour rights in China, for example contract law and rights for female employees

[@oppaceo]

Believe? It's a Fact ✨

[@上正止]

lol, u call these ppl super intelligent? With a little bit of geopolitical knowledge and common sense, you don’t need to debate on whether the West is hypocritical to China or other parts of the world except America! It is no brainer topic.

[@seanreynolds516]

The red haired youngster in the chair is entirely too casual in dress, posture and grooming. What was the faculty thinking ?

[@stevec4185]

true

[@Danderman888]

Can the Chair look more bored?! 🤣

[@kingcrazymani4133]

Greetings from Quincy, Massachusetts! Insightful and helpful. Thank you for putting this video online.

[@arturoelkongo1322]

"terror-capitalism", a new term......

[@tonyxu1800]

At least he is a honest hypocrite, or some kind honesty.

[@2894031]

How about debating the next time whether a white cat is white? I am sure this house has good reasons not to „believe“ it.

[@711MasterBlaster]

The usual western double standard

[@steveschimleck7148]

And I member,

[@AaronSutton-fj2oz]

Human rights and amnesty international and human rights watch and so on are geopolitical weapons and every one knows it

[@adam_p99]

Will China be held accountable for Covid?

[@MB2010-l5z]

Human issues in Xinjiang?! But looking at what the west did in the past and is continuing to commit around the world, Xinjiang issues is nothing in comparison. It is true that in China you cannot criticize the government otherwise you might face detention and this is what the west always say about China but: Looking at the Julian Assange case where this journalist could have imprisoned for life terms and spent 13 years a prison because he was just telling the truth about the atrocities of the americans in Iraq and the middle east. But weirdly about this not many talked and discussed, because it was america, but if this would have happened in China, it would have been seen as quite the opposite by the west.

[@dunzhen]

Duh

[@nigelralphmurphy2852]

ALL the money Robert Hart made from his running of the Customs Department went to the Chinese Qing state. Hart was an employee of the Chinese state and the money he made for China from the Customs Department was the largest source of income the Qing received from both internal and external taxes and tariffs. How does he not know that simple fact? Hart was one of the best servants China has ever had.

[@nigelralphmurphy2852]

China does capitalism 'better' than us because it is not restrained by rules that generations of labour rights activists, human rights activists, socialists and trade unionists have fought and died for. Chinese capitalism 'works better' because it doesn't give a fig about its people. 'Terror capitalism' indeed. The major flaw with this 'the west is hypocritical with China' is that our flaws and weaknesses and hypocrisies DO NOT mean China's problems suddenly melt away. To argue that is to commit one of the most egregious examples of tu quoque-whataboutisms possible.

[@Way827]

Not been to China then.

[@madamebutterfly4905]

Every country goes through a transition phase. Eg England used to send little children up inside chimneys to sweep them clean. No children rights then, correct? If you've been to China in the early 1990s, and then every decade since, you would have seen the drastic changes that have happened within one generation, unlike other countries which took centuries to change. In the meantime time, please visit China yourself and talk to the general populace about how they feel. You might be a reformer yourself then.

[@Wing-ix6wj]

Typical western ignorance...you knew nothing about China but brainwashed sterotype...Come to China and see for yourself. Yes China has its own problems and challenges, but it is not human rights or labor rights...

[@nigelralphmurphy2852]

He's not talking about the West. He's talking about America. AMERICA IS NOT THE WEST!!

[@lisashung9442]

Unfortunately, the West is led by America and controlled by America…….

[@huangec]

It is indeed the most hypocritical.

[@lzl4226]

I dunno man, the US may have started this, but Europe is arguably worse nowadays, and by Europe I mean the governments of the UK and the core EU nations. There are at least some different voices in the US, for example, when Trump becomes president in a few days, and being an unpredictable person as he is, I can either see him making the economic war with China worse, or he could even start breaking deals with China, no one knows, but what I can't see, is Trump starting a conflict with China over ideology or moral values. For countries like UK, Germany, or even the EU parliament, ideology has to be on their top agenda no matter how absurd. I can't see it changing in the foreseeable future. Status quo is the best you can hope for, but they may even double down and triple down even in the face of economic collapse, that's the only direction they know.

[@nigelralphmurphy2852]

When you're one of the poorest nations on earth due to the suicidal policies of your own government then increasing your wealth x 4 is not a particularly notable achievement. In fact it's hardly worth mentioning.

[@huangec]

But the fact that they have by now exceeded western countries in technology from their previous position in only 30 years is, however.

[@nigelralphmurphy2852]

Strangely, every single Chinese who lives outside of China believes in human rights, freedom of expression, govt accountability, free elections, multi-party states, rule of law, and democracy. And of the two states dominated by Chinese people (Taiwan and Singapore) outside of China, both are run on these principles. (HK used to the same but has had the enormous misfortune to be incorporated into the gigantic prison called the PRC) The vast majority of overseas Chinese HATE the CCP and its political system. So, it's not 'China' or 'the Chinese' that prefer to live in a totalitarian state with no inherent freedoms, it's the CCP, and only the CCP! The CCP IS China. The Chinese people are nothing. They do not politically exist as far as the CCP is concerned. So, regardless how long Prof Brown has lived in China he seems to not understand that basic fact of life. That fact certainly seriously undermines anything that he argues in this debate.

[@lisashung9442]

No, you’re wrong! After living in west over 20, 30 years, most of the oversea Chinese realized all these glorified western “Democracy” “Freedom” are “The Emperor’s New Clothes” …….😢. On the contrary, what CCP has led China as a country achieved today is impressive!

[@hongqi5734]

Speak for yourself if you are really a Chinese. I would say most of us overseas Chinese are proud of CPC and their achievements. The people of China support their Government more than the people of the Western world support their government.

[@pioamillos9001]

you believe in human rights when it suits you ,western powers are the most destructive forces killing millions in iraq ,libya,afghanistan etc. excluding regime change all around the world.why do you support massacres in gaza and syria if you are truly concerned about human rights.your hipocrisy is too much.

[@Way827]

Your narrative is totally false and people who have or still live in China will know that you are clinging to delusion.

[@madamebutterfly4905]

Every Chinese? You're delusional and certainly do not speak for many Chinese outside China. In fact, more and more Chinese who live outside China but are not Chinese nationals, are immensely proud about China's achievements.

[@ascoaptwwasmqx2840]

Western democracy is still superior since despite its chaos, the western nations remain stable. China progress just show political system is just a minor factor in nation building, something else is more important.

[@michaelpattison8543]

Nonsense, western nations are not democracies

[@freefree1219]

Not sure which element (s) of western democracy you think is better, and what you're comparing it with. However stability is definitely very important to enable a state or community to grow, and this was a key factor for Chinese rise in past 30 years. This is also a key factor why we see stagnation in growth for UK and us in the past 10 years.

[@vegamoonlight]

What a joke 😂😂😂 Stability? You are on the brink of collapse because of your Western democracy. 😂

[@CryptoRenegade-x3o]

More stable like gaza, Ukraine

[@cyansadventures]

Your idea that Western democracy is stable is predicated on the fact that the failures of free speech and democracy are never counted as "western". India, Sri Lanka, Philippines - they all adopted free speech, free press and 1man-1vote. As do many South American countries. But the West conveniently doesn't consider them part of the West. Because they are not successful or stable, and that's because they lack the biggest factor for stability - great wealth relative to the rest of the world. The West had that wealth to start with when they robbed the rest of the world in the past 300 years, when they were still monarchies. You are incredibly biased.