An Expensive Smart Home Mistake? My Quinetic Switches are FAILING!

[@klaernie]

I would really press the manufacturer for delivering a product with defects. At least they should keep supplying you with new modules until your warranty runs out.

[@camerongray1515]

They have a 3 year warranty (I think) so realistically I could definitely get them replaced, but then I need to factor in the time I'd have to spend dealing with returning modules when they fail and the inconvenience of them failing at inconvenient times. Would rather just replace them with a system I can trust the reliability of.

[@klaernie]

@@camerongray1515 I totally get your sentiment. But even if you switch, I'd hold them accountable and force them to loose money on your original sale, since that behavior must not be tolerated.

[@TheSpatialTheory]

It's also possible that future revisions may have additional support added there. Those really seem way too small for the forces involved using that kind of plastic

[@georgeprout42]

​@@camerongray15156 years under UK consumer law (5 in Scotland, they always like to be different) covers manufacturing defects or design faults for a product that should be reasonably expected to last that long. But I understand that the hassle factor comes into play. Them offering 3 years is nothing more than a marketing tool, it's still 6.

[@leeroyfairhurst3883]

@@camerongray1515 - The more items that are returned/highlighted will improve the production from suppliers.

[@alanjrobertson]

Have you contacted their customer service dept? It looks like a clear design flaw and they should supply you with replacements, hopefully of versions with a more robust design...

[@movax20h]

Oooo. Cool. I knew of Quinetic switches, and was liking the general idea, but then was not thrilled by lack of receivers so I can hook things into own system. Your reverse engineering efforts then are a game changer, and now I will look into this again. Rest of my home automation is primarly Shelly Pro modules, with custom automation software. I do not think this is planned obsolescence, just a design mistake, possibly because product is pretty new and made by company with a bit less experience. Switches are designed to last decades. I think it is fixable, both in design iteration, but also if it fails, to use some epoxy to glue things back.

[@danr3199]

+1 for Shelly switches. I have Plus 1s, Plus 1PMs and Plus 2s in all the light switches in my flat with cheap Schneider retractive plates (and a couple of MK-type grid ones). All the usual light on/off happens locally, but you can also do it detached and handle switching logic remotely. Of course it relies on having neutrals at your switches, but your place should be modern enough for that. I do all the comms between Shelly and Home assistant over MQTT, bit of a pain to set up but happy to share config files if you need a hand

[@alerighi]

The thing is that Shelly (or other) devices needs to be powered. And if you have one or two, not a big deal. But if you have an house full of them the power consumption starts to be significant! I've measured that 1 Shelly devices consumes roughly 1W of power. That is to me a lot. If you multiply for 20 switches in an house you get 20W of power consumed just doing nothing. At the end of the year it is 175kW/h of electricity, that at the price of 0.30euros in my country is 52 euros at years just to run them. This is also an environmental problem also, I don't like wasting electricity for nothing.

[@danr3199]

I have 20 Shellies now (in a 2 bed flat…), and found that out of the box they use about a watt, but in eco mode (not sure why this isn’t a default) they use under 100mw each, with no noticeable difference in speed from my usage. The energy prices here in the UK are around the same (mines 30p/kWh day and 7.5p/kWh night), but I can cope with the £5/yr ish for the convenience. Not to mention it saves me more than that through automations like turning everything off when I leave home.

[@MartinE63]

They have a three year warranty, which I’ve had to use just once, after around two years with a heavily used switch. The MK grid switch failed to click when pressed, the same problem as you had.

[@wiideathmodtv]

@Cameron Gray it may be quicker to 3d print a new case then switch platforms?

[@jackipiegg]

14:43 I do this with zigbee coin based CR2032 switch (AQARA) and solder the switch points to an existing wall switch. No live wires.

[@tbavister]

1. Warranty return. 2. Hard to work out how much space and the movement of the mechanism but: could you drill two holes and put a long skinny bolt across the width to act as the limit?

[@rosspage9397]

Im doing a significant rennovation of my home including a full rewire. Using shelly 4pro in a custom cabinet and then shelly i4s to 2 dual pole retractive switches. Plan is to use HA to enable my switches to do different things such as blinds, lights etc... A shelly plus 2 would do a similar thing for standard wiring setups. Would be interested to see how you find the shellys.

[@MrDead1975]

Aqara H1 switches allow multi button options when you run in decoupled mode, single clicks, double clicks and. multi press in 2 gang switches so you can control multiple devices through home assistant

[@mercian8051]

If you’re doing full rewire, I wouldn’t recommend using wireless lighting. There are loads of wired solutions available

[@Fleeeeg]

I've had shelly 1 modules for several years, recently the capacitors in the power supplies have started failing and they make a loud hissing noise

[@camerongray1515]

@mercian8051 The way I'd handle this situation is to at least wire for regular switches and then install wireless switches if desired. That way you can easily enough convert back to wired switches if desired. With a rewire, it may also be worth running additional cables such as running some switch wires to a central location and some sort of data cable such as KNX to each switch position. Even if they never end up getting used, it's better to get them in at rewire time rather than need to add them in later.

[@paulhyland3528]

I did something similar for lighting all my circuits wired to a central location, I used pro 2s been in over yr and all good

[@MrLatte27]

While it would be better if it didnt break in the first place it is fixable, put a small screw through the side of the plastic housing to hold the spring down problem solved.

[@skysurferuk]

"Just because it's a brand name, doesn't mean it's good!". I wonder who said that? Great information, thanks. 👍

[@seanhood980]

I've been looking into using the CSPGM2075PW modules from Click. They're a Tuya TS0042 internally but a grid switch externally. Also supported in Z2M. Reason I haven't yet is mostly down to price.

[@garethblake544]

I must admit like yourself l had concerns when l first saw these Quinetic switches being installed as a primary switching source on their longevity considering the replacement cost in the advent of a failure as you have just highlighted. Keep up the great videos and stay safe.

[@davidnorth1021]

I have the BG Nexus compatible Qunietic grid modules - two in service for just over a year now. Might check on their construction before I buy more!

[@jasonlee3247]

“And in my next video I’ll be installing a brand new Philips Hue system in my flat” 🤣

[@trevelvin7455]

Interesting video. Is this a bad batch or has it happened more frequently?. Have you spoke to the manufacturer about it?. Love the detail of your videos btw.

[@CarltonDodd]

As someone mentioned already, could you repair these with tiny screws through the outside housing with the ends catching the spring, like the clips do?

[@camerongray1515]

I imagine you probably could, but you'd have to be extremely precise to get the positioning just right - the mechanism only moves around 1mm when clicked. Personally I'd rather just replace them with something I can trust the reliability of

[@VW_Fan]

I would love to see a Shelly video. I am using a couple of these with a view to get more. Would be good to see your views on these and how you implement them.

[@zusurs]

Can't this be fixed with a simple drop of two-component epoxy? It should add necessary mechanical support for the failing plastic clips and keep the spring in place.

[@camerongray1515]

I did consider this but unfortunately the spring needs to be able to move downwards when the switch is pressed but be held under the clip so epoxying it in a fixed position wouldn't work.

[@TheSpatialTheory]

I think they were suggesting a drop be placed on top of the tiny clip before it fails to provide additional resistance against shear forces

[@zusurs]

@@TheSpatialTheory Yes, thank you for clarifying what I meant - I indeed suggested to use epoxy as a support filler to prevent the plastic clip from breaking off so easily, not to glue the spring in place.

[@MrDead1975]

the aqara switches are nice I use the H1 no neutral all over my house but they also do neutral and wireless versions. the old baking soda and super glue trick may work to rebuild the broken plastic clips in your switches

[@Banzahair]

But they are some times a bit temperamental of not connected to a good coordinator Had trouble with the sonoff ones but better stability with Skyconnect

[@TelcoGeek]

Definitely recommend Shelly. I’ve got a bunch of lighting and bathroom fan circuits now controlled by these with MK retractable switches. Works a charm. Much better than Sonoff in my experience.

[@relativenormality]

Just installed one of these in the Knightsbridge Grid version to solve an isolate problem - hope it lasts!

[@shaunb8211]

Been running a house full of these a year and had one fail a couple of weeks ago, exactly the same issue!

[@scottphillips7267]

Can surley Retro fit a metal clip around the switch maby ?

[@squeee1023]

sir I have wireless doorbless with kinetic battery free, the remote wont work anymore when I press but the alarm still works. Can you help me? how to reach you?

[@andrewmcewan9145]

Looks like there really simply designed. You can likely add some diy reinforcement to the posts if there easy to pop open like that. Really dosent bode well for bigger installs/important installs like you say. I really like the kentic consept.

[@ryang6572]

This is like watching a big Clive video

[@Cook1eMR]

Really disappointed to see these fail. I had this ear marked as an in bathroom solution. Seemed ideal for wet zones considering no power. Do you have ideas for alternatives?

[@iambueno]

I'm using Candeo zigbee modules along with the Click minigrid system. No issues at all with Click, they make great products, the candeo stuff has been rock solid too. I also have a bunch of Sonoff zbminis which I use with click rocker switches, and also to control extractor fans.

[@Alex-if3sr]

People are becoming lazier by the day. How hard is it to turn off the switch by hand? Nice video on the teardown though

[@iambueno]

@@Alex-if3sr sorry dad!

[@MrBobWareham]

Thanks for the video, such a shame they fail, anyway I want to hang my bedroom door to the other side so will need to move the switch but don't want to chase the wall out, so I was thinking of this switch, but now I need to look at another approach to my problem, any suggestions? Bob in the UK, HAVE JOINED YOUR CHANNEL.

[@camerongray1515]

To be honest, for that sort of situation these are still probably your best option, although maybe not the MK grid modules I have here, their "paddle" style switches probably have a different design so may not have this issue. It may just be worth keeping a spare switch around just in case of any issues (even pair it and keep it beside the bed so you can turn the lights off from in bed!). Of course if you're ever redecorating then at that point it may be worth chasing in a cable.

[@MS-Patriot2]

I avoid BG if possible. Low cost for a reason. Had a real hassle installing one of these in a grid, needed supplied adaptors and shims, a real cobble up and ended up looking crap. The Quinetiq stuff I’ve found to be robust.

[@klvadsbootieboot3227]

Found your video after having endless problems with Quinetic switches. The large flat panel ones work fine but yes they are ugly. Knightsbridge brand switches failed in six months so the retailer TLC provided us with free replacements when our extremely unhelpful electrician failed to honour his warranty. However a year on, we now have a receiver failure. Am bitterly regretting installing Quinetic and now considering getting the effected room hardwired (very expensive and disruptive). Avoid!

[@camerongray1515]

That's definitely unfortunate! They're still a decent option for retrofit applications such as controlling an outside light where running a cable to a switch would be awkward, but I do worry about situations such as yours(?) where it's being used as the primary means of controlling indoor lighting without any cables running to switches since, as you've found, you're then tied into relying on a wireless solution long term.

[@toddmcgowan9449]

Do the Quinetic switches come with a warranty? It seems like a seven-month-old switch should be replaced by the company.

[@camerongray1515]

They do, and I absolutely could have used the warranty, however my point was more that I have installed a tonne of these and now can't trust them to be reliable long term. The £17 to replace a failed module isn't really the issue, it's the time and effort required to deal with failed modules where I then can't control the lights and need to swap the module and deal with the replacement process. Even worse if you were installing this as a contractor and need to deal with customers calling you back to replace failed modules.

[@toddmcgowan9449]

Thanks for your quick response. I loved your video. I installed Insteon light switches 10 years ago and not only did they start failing about a year out, the company went out of business! I must have spent close to $7,000 on those darn things. I’ve been replacing them with Lutron switches.

[@NicksStuff]

Surely, with your set of skills, you'll DIY a solution to reinforce those two little plastic posts

[@camerongray1515]

I probably could have, although personally I always try to use things where I keep the hardware as stock as possible, and if the manufacture's design isn't good enough from the factory, I'll not use it. I'd rather not be in a situation where every time I want to fit a new switch I need to embark on a project to reenforce them.

[@unifytechuk]

I believe the spring is part of the energy harvesting system that turns the kinetic energy into electrical energy

[@gabest4]

Maybe pour a blob of epoxy on both clips to strengthen them?

[@chrisfox3161]

I sent mine back to TLC under guarantee. Replaced without fuss or arguments.

[@camerongray1515]

I definitely could have done, they'd still be under warranty but given I'm pretty sure this is more of a design issue, I'd have ended up with new switches that could fail in the exact same way again. At that point I'd rather just cut my losses and fit a different system which I can trust the long term durability of.

[@chrisfox3161]

Fully understand that stance. However, informing the supplier of the issue may result in action to rectify the problem. If you don't know it's broken you can't start to fix it.

[@marklewis4396]

Was at the elex Coventry yesterday and showed the guys on the Quinetic stand this video as they were not aware of the problem, interested to read some have been returned under warranty to their only distributor TLC and they werent aware of the fault, unless of course it was returned for a different fault.

[@parody86]

Too.much waffle!!

[@Irilia_neko]

It's time to use the warranty

[@camerongray1515]

If I hadn't ripped it apart for a video I would have, however, I'd still be reluctant to rely on these as I'd find myself needing to make warranty claims every time one fails and have to deal with switches that I can't rely on not to fail at an inconvenient time.

[@Irilia_neko]

The kinetic switch is not the problem, the only problem is this brand, just use another brand

[@camerongray1515]

The issue is that there only seems to be this one model of kinetic switch that fits into my MK grid light switches. Another company (Ener-J) also sell one, but it looks very similar and may end up being the same product under a different brand. Would rather just replace them with a system that uses the known-reliable MK retractive switches. Then, while I could get the traditional "paddle" style kinetic switches - those are out of the question as I want something that matches my existing light switches.

[@MrSgtSunshine]

@@camerongray1515 Very useful videos about Quinetic. I am planning (or I was planning!) on using Quinetic paddle style switches for a couple of outside lights. I want two switches to switch two lights at the same time. I have two questions I hope you can answer. 1) Is it possible to have two switches paired both to two lights? 2) Do you know if the paddle switches suffer from the same fatigue problem you experience with the MK grid versions? Would be great if you could answer.