Can A Cheap Modded BMW 128i Compete With A New Toyota GR86?

[@revmatchtv]

www.carmigo.io/revmatch Get $50 off when you sell your car through Carmigo

[@infidel900rr]

I'd love to hear from the owner where he got his wavetrac diff installed. Been looking for a shop that is willing to do the machine work but not having any luck. Thank you.

[@16vPete]

Thanks for giving my Bimmer a thorough review! It was a really fun day!

[@revmatchtv]

Thanks for lending it for this comparison!

[@BESIMXCARS]

Hey I know this guy

[@mark_e82]

@16vPete can you give more detail on the suspension work you did? Did you swap out springs, control arms or bushings?

[@16vPete]

@@mark_e82 Sure! So far, I've done Eibach Pro Kit springs, Koni Yellows, E9X front upper control arms with BimmerWorld sealed bearings. Then, Dinan camber plates to achieve 2.4 degrees of camber.

[@mark_e82]

@@16vPete thanks! Just bought a 2009 m sport and suspension is going to be first project.

[@DjGanan23]

as a owner of a 128i vert i can agree for the driver experience its a steal of a price.

[@st4xor]

I've been looking forward to this comparison. Great video, enjoyed the comparison. Should revisit again some day when it's dry 😁. I think sound is hugely underrated

[@revmatchtv]

I'll revisit the car in a year or so, but you'll likely see it in videos in the not too distant future as Peter frequents the same race tracks I do. Yes, it sounds great!

[@mark_e82]

@@revmatchtvit’s been a year! Would appreciate revisiting this build on a dry day.

[@revmatchtv]

@@mark_e82 Great idea! Pete has done a lot to his 128i in the last year!

[@bmw128racer]

The 128i was around $36k brand new back in 2012/2013.

[@steevenbrunner3261]

The 125i e82 was around 38k€, which is over 40k USD.

[@coldvaper]

A 128i with a manual is pretty rare. I have been looking for a 328i with a manual from the same generation.

[@revmatchtv]

Quite rare actually

[@mediocreman2]

They're rare because nobody sells them. Whereas there will be tons of 86's for sale.

[@cleanname4439]

same

[@perrybenedict5983]

Id be very interested to see you drive each others cars. Would love to get some reactions from drivers biased towards other platforms, especially for the GR86.

[@revmatchtv]

Next time I do a comparison, we will swap. Time was a little tight on this one.

[@dxb526]

The only reason to get a GR86 is to own a new car, that's it. Both E46 330 and E82 125/128 modded are vastly superior to the GR86 in every way, form or shape.

[@revmatchtv]

Reliability, warranty, fuel cost, and maintenance are others. Older cars just need to have worn out things replaced. Peter, the owner of the 128i has put a TON of work into the car. Of course he's spent < half of what I have on my new car, but he's done all the work himself. I've owned several BMWs and frankly, I've grown tired of the constant care older cars need.

[@dxb526]

@@revmatchtv must be an american thing

[@mediocreman2]

This is true. The concept from the cell phone world where people are constantly obsessed with new has moved to cars. Look at Subaru and Toyota. It took them 23 years to catch up with the Honda S2000 performance, and the S2000 is still the better car because if the engine. And it also is half the price. The 128i is a more adult version of the GR86, but actually cost 3-4x less. And it still took Toyota and Subaru since 2008 to come close. But they can't top the refinement and inputs. Sound, controls, engine character, looks, and on and on. The GR is boring to look at also. I'm so glad it exists, and in a few years the kids will finally be able to afford them but right now the value just isn't there.

[@stms4411]

@@mediocreman2- the s2000 carried an MSRP of 32k 23 years ago. That’s $56k in 2023 dollars. Seems like Toyota and Subaru have provided far more fun/dollar than the much lauded Honda. Difference is, you don’t have to drive it like you stole it to enjoy it. The s2000 is only interesting at the top of the rev range. I am an adult and quickly tire of only beating the snot out of my cars. To the other poster. BMWs have great appeal. They’ve been put on a pedestal that’s undeserved. I far preferred my e36 M3 to the e46 M3. Since those days, they’ve gotten heavy and numb. The 86 twins provide some badly needed tossability to the automotive world. I love my GR86 as a counterpoint to my 981 boxster s. Both cars manage to stay on the diet that bmw has long since dropped in favor of being porky but with a good personality (in their motor alone).

[@stms4411]

@@mediocreman2-btw the average price of a new car is now in the 40s. How much more value do you want for a purpose built, light, rwd, manual shift equipped sports car (when no other daily drive option exists until more than double its price) before you stop bitching about it. In 2023, low 30s is cheap for a new car. Newsflash.

[@BESIMXCARS]

128i best car 😎

[@revmatchtv]

I used to have a 1M =) I loved Peter's 128i. He's made it a very nice driver's car!

[@mattdebyl8806]

If you’re in the states and didn’t get the 130i.

[@ArticulateArena]

Cheap unmodded 128i beats 99% of modern cars

[@ArticulateArena]

All I've got is 22 wheels and tint with some blacked out trim and I get compliments non stop. Most ppl don't even know what it is lol

[@joshdominguez341]

Yess and the 135 even better

[@dre32pitt]

My man had the 'proud papa' face on the whole time the other guy was driving his 128i, lol.

[@jtaylor2563]

50/50 weight balance last of the N/A inline 6 cylinder, hydraulic steering, normal fuel injection 6 speed manual What else is not love

[@The9andy6]

A new car is never the right choice if you are price sensitve or want the best for the money. But I still chosed the GR86 because I find it kind of special and really like how the car feels... another factor is that it should stay pretty rare here in Switzerland because there are not much cars yet and they are only able to sell these until 2024. So a future classic?

[@revmatchtv]

In Europe you've definitely got a future classic! Very few will be sold there.

[@jacobdavis6200]

And the most important part, the yota will last long enough to become a classic!

[@enekoprins]

I drive a 2006 BMW E46 and I don't have much to compare it to, but I love the old-school hydraulic steering. Why did every car maker change to electric steering when almost everybody prefers hydraulic??

[@ogmechsftw]

only preferred till it pisses all over the ground

[@mediocreman2]

Packaging and cost and they've proven most people can't feel the difference. But enthusiasts usually do

[@revmatchtv]

Mainly cost and a slight bump in fuel efficiency. Modern cars also have lane centering which you can't really do with hydraulic systems. FWIW, McLaren still uses hycraulics.

[@myflourishingfam]

I was gonna say fuel efficiency and emissions reduction, but ya hydronic feels way better

[@ArticulateArena]

Cheap unmodded 128i beats 99% of modern cars

[@revmatchtv]

It's a great car! I should do an update and show everyone what Peter has done with his 128i. LOADS of performance mods that make it quick on track!

[@richforbes9158]

Yup, 2012 BMW 128i E82, I pretty much smoke everyone that tries. No joke unless they got that laptop or drag ready. 💯💪🏽😮‍💨🤙🏽truly was built ready for the best drivers.

[@revmatchtv]

@@richforbes9158 We are going to do an update video in a few weeks.

[@captainnachox]

Is there a way to get a list of the upgrades done to the 128i?

[@revmatchtv]

Peter is on Instagram at 16vpete. He's also documented his build quite extensively at www.thedrive.com/guides-and-gear/project-car-diaries-track-prepping-my-bmw-128i-for-gridlife-at-laguna-seca look for Peter Nelson

[@richforbes9158]

I got the 2012 128i coupe (E82) And mine is wayyy louder/torque/power. Not sure if it was modded before importing from Germany. But today, revved against 2024 Audi S3, and BMW 128i 2012 for the fkn W! High RPM/Rev, installed exhaust system kit, no turbo, Naturally Aspirated, Rwd. People don’t know until they challenge and find out.💯💪🏽😮‍💨🤙🏽

[@user-vj6bx3ks7s]

Looking at suspension options for my 128i… stuck between the Koni yellows or a bilstein coilover kit

[@petert7807]

I'm in the same boat. I know eventually I'd like a LSD. But suspension will probably be needed first. I had Koni on my previous audi, and loved them. But they would push me out of my current street class in a few racing categories, not that I'm competitive to begin with. 😂

[@Alkhoholic]

I got the Bilstein b12 pro kit on my 130i and it's superb. Coilovers can be too harsh if you daily drive it

[@user-vj6bx3ks7s]

@@Alkhoholic I bought the b12 just waiting to have enough money to do a complete suspension overhaul and install them

[@Alkhoholic]

@@user-vj6bx3ks7s Nice! I'm sure you'll like it if handling and sportiness is what you are after. I installed the kit myself and yeah I will need to buy also the rest of the suspension parts just to refresh they suspension system.

[@n3rdstrength]

Damn shame the weather wasn't better, a great comparison.

[@revmatchtv]

Peter and I are going to do an update video soon. He's made huge changes to his car.

[@Whothehellisty]

I have a 2010 bmw 128i it’s an automatic I got it for 3800 with 131000 miles on it my favorite car so far

[@nicklauher9323]

I'm going from e92 328 on KW V1 coilovers to GR86. She's approaching 200k miles and showing her age. Ultimately, I am hoping for a highly comparable driving experience in a reliable, new (my first new car) and affordable car. This gives me confidence in my decision!!!

[@revmatchtv]

You’ll be very happy. The 86 is a real driver’s car. I have a lot of videos on it and many more coming

[@Alkhoholic]

I had a BRZ and yes handling is great but I sold and got myself a nice 130i 6spd manual. I like the BMW better mainly because it's 4 door and can haul more stuff but has the same capability as the BRZ. I can also say the 130i has more grunt than the boxer engine of the BRZ.

[@trey4341]

I love my manual 128i ❤

[@a88888888a]

I have a 6mt e82. 40k km. Too new to seriously mod for me. Just going to change get koni yellows and springs, pilot sport tires, rear 15mm sway, front and back m3 arms. Not gonna mess with disa or tunes. Future buyers won't worry about the above mods. If you mod too much lowers the value of a 40k mile car 230hp is plenty for the road. I don't track the 128i. That duty belongs to my s2000 and porsche.

[@revmatchtv]

Koni yellows are a good place to start for a fun street car

[@gordonb8052]

BMW e92 (the 3 series) weighs 27XX with stripped interior (the interior weighs a lot) stripped trunk, no ac..

[@revmatchtv]

E92 is a great platform!

[@ThatGuy-xd5fs]

128i - lsd and tune

[@revmatchtv]

A great combo!

[@mediocreman2]

Yes but with 3SIM and headers.

[@jeffarcher400]

Mpg? The four should get better milage than the six but maybe not. The four should be revving and the six torquing along. Maintenance? Toyota vs BMW used to be obvious but disregard the warranty and newer cars just seem to have more complexity and you don't want to let just anyone touch it. Practicality? I think the Beemer back seats are bigger and maybe the trunk too. Track? I dunno, let's find out!

[@evensisftw]

Given still going to be a ton cheaper than buying a new gr86 to supercharge the 128i, and get an easy and reliable 400whp, i'd take the 128i all day long.

[@indrabendi3300]

Nice😎👍

[@revmatchtv]

Hope you enjoyed it!

[@theoaguilar1941]

The main difference is the refinement.

[@myflourishingfam]

Great comparison! Love the sound of the n54 motor

[@frankb5603]

N52. Agree with you about the lovely straight six sound.

[@myflourishingfam]

My bad, N52. Sounds amazing, though I think I prefer the sound of the M54 motor. It's slightly coarser which is nice. Both are great though! @@frankb5603

[@joshdominguez341]

@@myflourishingfamM54 is king 👑

[@myflourishingfam]

@@joshdominguez341 it’s classic. Drove a 2.2 m54 320i for years but really want to get a 330i.

[@joshdominguez341]

@@myflourishingfam get one you won’t regret it I own an E46 330ci as well as a E46 325i sedan the 325i way more fun cuz more power of course

[@a88888888a]

Did he change the rear subframe bushings?

[@revmatchtv]

I believe he did. When we do the next episode, we'll have him go over all the extensive updates he's done. The car is very dialed right now. It's impressive.

[@g_enigma]

This would be a much better comparison if the other guy got to drive your car and tell us what he thinks.

[@revmatchtv]

We're gonna do an update video when we have time

[@rowen898]

Guaranteed that 128i was not running properly, Power output wise. Even with the 500lb difference the 128i with 330i tune can outrun a stock 86 2.4L. My guess is poor gas and the vanos solenoids need replacement.

[@petert7807]

Ummm gearing. Assuming it wasnt changed when he did the diff. Spent a day drag racing a friend in his gen1 brz (the much lower hp version). Dead even stock vs stock. So 330 tune might keep up with the new 2.4l version? Idk.

[@mattdebyl8806]

@@petert7807I have a 130i with higher final drive. Factory 261hp. Weighs around 100kg more than the 86. When new a good half second at least faster 0-60. Cost me $40k less than a new 86. Also much more practical. Mine sounds a tonne better too.

[@petert7807]

@@mattdebyl8806 yeah, higher final drive with the 30i power and some coilovers sounds like a very nice, almost perfect car. BUT if you get a chance, you should test drive a 86 chassis. Its very enjoyable and I think the similarities are mostly on paper. They are kind of night and day IRL. The new ford ecoboost mustang is also in the same ball bark, but on the other end of the scale. If that makes any sense.

[@mattdebyl8806]

@@petert7807 they are different, but not night and day. I haven’t driven the new one, but definitely driven the Gen1. They are a good car, but they couldn’t hold a candle to an ND MX-5. The 130i is overall a way better drive than the 86 Gen1. I’m sure the new one closes or potentially exceeds it, but it wouldn’t be by much. I’ll see when they’re a bit cheaper. Certainly there is still a significant power and torque difference, but not a massive weight difference. But hey, they were targeting at being very different vehicles. A 5 door unassuming hatchback that happens to have a 260hp I6 driving the rear wheels with short geared manual gearbox is pretty unique in the motoring world.

[@rowen898]

@@petert7807 i had the exact same experience with the mustang. Both the ecoboost and the coyote, couldnt believe how useless they were. Awesome motors though.

[@orucreis3219]

Very nice.

[@a88888888a]

The only thing I'll say about the bmw is that the plastics and some parts fail even at 40k miles. Quality isn't as high as toyota...but it's a bit more fun...and the inline 6 is one of the last good small inline Engines from bmw

[@revmatchtv]

I've owned some older BMWs, and yes, plastics started to fall apart. However, age seems to get everything eventually.

[@dg7438]

Did anyone else get the name of the tune from Europe? I couldn't understand

[@markusweber7445]

Comparing new Car Prices with used car Prices has always and will always be pointless. You should compare the BMW to an early GT 86, which has similar Mods….

[@zcmdzpp127]

Weight and reliability?

[@revmatchtv]

The 128i is somewhere near 3,300 lbs. Any 10 year old car will require some maintenance, but you can check forums for specifics.

[@joshdominguez341]

The owner has modified this car perfectly the OEM plus way

[@revmatchtv]

He's done a lot more to the car since then to make it far mor track worthy. I think maybe it's time for an update video

[@mediocreman2]

How could you ever buy a sports car you don't like the sound of? The inline 6 sounds 8 million times better, the steering is 5 million times better. The shifter is better, and it's a better daily. But the biggest difference is you can actually get those 128i's for $7k, and with $2k in mods with 3SIM, headers, tune, and used 335i calipers the only difference is you'd still be on stock suspension which is still really good. So for $9k, you have a better sounding, better driving, better looking, better daily, with better seats (sport), and did I mention better sounding and better steering? On a track the lighter weight might make enough of a difference, but in regular driving who chooses a loud, tin can with bad engine sound and electric steering for 4x the price??

[@revmatchtv]

You have good points. Peter has spent a fair amount of time and money doing maintenance on the 128i wrenching himself. He's into it for dozen and dozens of hours. There's no question the 128i has a lot of advantages as you pointed out. One of them isn't a warranty. Not everyone has the talent, time or space to put that many hours into a used car. FYI - the seats in the 86 are much better than the BMW seats in this matchup.

[@eganrux3296]

Let”s test the GR86 against absolutely every car ever made! It’s obviously the best and we’re not getting paid to exaggerate or misrepresent this car at all! You will be able to get this car at MSRP anywhere you go! Why buy a used 911 when you could have a Toyota? Corvette C5? Why of course not! We drove it on a canyon road and we feel like it’s better! Completely showroom stock except the things we’ve modified! All GR86s are manual, except the ones that aren’t and we wont talk about that. ECU issues? Heat sink? Nonsense! This car is obviously faster on the track than a 125cc shifter cart! It’s completely unfair, unlike my sarcasm and criticism.

[@revmatchtv]

I'm definitely not being paid to make these videos, unless you count ad revenue which is $47.68 total since I published it. I have no paid relationship with Toyota or BMW. If I have a sponsor, it is clearly disclosed per FTC regulation. I have other videos that are sponsored on this channel with that disclosure. This video was not meant to be a full cost breakdown or reliability breakdown of either car. I've had zero issues with the GR86. Is my personal car that I purchased from a local dealer at MSRP after waiting 11 months for it. Please let me know where I'm exaggerating or where I'm misrepresenting either car and I'll take it into consideration for future videos.

[@maji3760]

Ok, so sorry, but a prius could not only keep up, but outdo a brz/gr86.

[@revmatchtv]

Let me know when you find an instrumented test showing this!

[@GGLiEx]

bought one yesterday

[@revmatchtv]

How do you like it so far?

[@GGLiEx]

@@revmatchtv love it. prdered way too many parts already

[@revmatchtv]

@@GGLiEx Awesome. I've got an update video on my car coming in the next few weeks. Yes, I still have it, and I still love it!

[@GGLiEx]

@@revmatchtv awesome! looking forward to check it out. greetings from Luxembourg,Europe. Got coilovers, m suspension and f20 brakes icoming and some semi slicks 😋

[@joshdominguez341]

The G86 needs a turbo

[@revmatchtv]

My friend is working on getting a Haroop supercharger tuned. I'll do a video when the car is ready.

[@alexandram9477]

interesting comparison! Given that the BMW has 92K miles and a tune I wonder if the operating costs after 5 years/50K will catch up or exceed the 86.

[@revmatchtv]

Good question. Given the history of the BRZ/86 twins, I would expect the operating costs to be pretty low if it's kept close to stock. The BMW will undoubtedly need more repairs down the road, but realistically it would be hard to match the overall expense of a new car.

[@alexandram9477]

@@revmatchtv ok got it, thank you. Another thing to consider might be value after 5 years /50K miles of ownership - think that's maybe where the 2 choices flush out in favor of the new 86. 17 year old BMW w/ 140K+ miles vs 5 year old GR86 w/ 50K+

[@16vPete]

Definitely a good point! Thankfully the 128i has been very reliable with mild DIY maintenance

[@stms4411]

@@revmatchtv- it probably compares to a new car when you consider that this is very likely to not be in service 5 years and 50k miles from now. Bmw purchase price + mods + used car to get to work for years 4 and 5 (meanwhile the GR86 will have 8-10 more years ahead of it).

[@mediocreman2]

They came out in 2008 and there are still plenty of them out there. Some have over 300k miles on them because N52's can go a long time. Don't let the ignorant people who have never owned or taken care of one of these engines try to scare you with fear based tactics. There's no way running costs will ever catch up to a new car unless you completely abuse your car and only take it to the dealership for service. The few things these cars need attention on add up to a few hundred dollars every few years. If you can't handle that much money taking care of your car, then by all means go ahead and pay the bank about the same amount monthly for the privilege of reliability.

[@jpwilliams5264]

500lbs is a bit of a stretch. More like 300.

[@revmatchtv]

The BMW is around 3,300. The GR86 is 2811. I'm just using manufacturer supplied weights. Anyway, Peter and I go to the track regularly, and we are almost always within a 1-1.5 seconds of each other. He's on pretty sticky tires, I'm on not sticky tires. He's got more power and grip, but more weight. Pretty equal performance on tracks like Laguna, Chuckwalla, Streets of Willow etc.

[@jpwilliams5264]

@@revmatchtv hard to argue how capable the GR is in stock form. If I could afford a new car, that would be it! Slicktop 128 seem to hover around 3050-3150 pending options.

[@joshdominguez341]

BMW is I’ll always be on top

[@orlandooropeza2305]

BMW. ❤💪🏻💪🏻👍🏻🔥

[@wayward03]

The only issue i would have with doing an older BMW and modding it to be fun is the reliability of German cars isn't great and the parts are a premium.

[@revmatchtv]

Absolutely fair point. Peter, the owner does his own maintenance, however BMW parts are definitely more expensive than Japanese parts.

[@mediocreman2]

They don't need a ton of attention actually. And the only thing that's expensive is labor and maybe the water pump that needs to be done ever 100k miles or so. Don't let fear mongering keep you a slave to the bank.

[@wayward03]

@MediocreMan I doubt most used German cars are cheaper than a new Japanese car over 5 years. If you're always buying a new car every 3 years then yeah it would get expensive.

[@mattdebyl8806]

@@wayward03nonsense.

[@REALBanannaman]

Lol

[@smikema]

135i would have been a better comparison. The HP/weight ratio would be more equivalent

[@revmatchtv]

Perhaps, but most of the 135i BMWs here are heavily modded making 400+ horsepower. It's hard to find the right cars that are available on any given day.

[@smikema]

Yeah I could see that. Great video!

[@jferrer9157]

I don't think the 135i is track suited without major modifications to the oil system and cooling system. A lightly modded 128i is a better track car overall (IMHO)

[@revmatchtv]

@@jferrer9157 Yes, it's true. The 135i will overheat quickly on track. I had one before I started this channel. You need to spend heavily to make it track reliable.

[@a88888888a]

I have a 6mt e82. 40k km. Too new to seriously mod for me. Just going to change get koni yellows and springs, pilot sport tires, rear 15mm sway, front and back m3 arms. Not gonna mess with disa or tunes. Future buyers won't worry about the above mods. If you mod too much lowers the value of a 40k mile car 230hp is plenty for the road. I don't track the 128i. That duty belongs to my s2000 and porsche.