Can A GROUP C Car Beat A HYPERCAR? | Le Mans Without Chicanes

962 vs 963 without chicanes!
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The physics of some models may have been modified to replicate real-life performance as close as possible.
#LeMans #LeMans24 #WEC

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

Group C or Hypercar? Which era do you prefer?

[@FormulaAnything]

Hypercar overall

[@zakialaboni3538]

Hypercar

[@tijmendr9006]

Group c all day, i like hypercar because of how competitivw it is but those 700-900 hp monsters going 380+ kmh on the mulsanne staright and the sound was just amazing

[@Train_Nerd]

Hypercars. A new great era.

[@io4k967]

Group C.

[@stevenboo3053]

Even if it lost the race, this video shows that grandpa still got it! 💪

[@The.Drunk-Koala]

Grandpa always speaks fine words.

[@purwantiallan5089]

​@@The.Drunk-KoalaGrandpa always approved that.

[@stephenoxf]

Grandpa is 40 years old

[@tugradd8961]

Now add chicanes 💀

[@RoasterOven]

the 963 would still win....

[@turboDream228]

963 would win even earlier

[@tugradd8961]

@@RoasterOven yes i mean the gap would be huge, thats the point

[@habibputra_dany_bendy]

Else crash 💀

[@RiCOx444]

there’s already a video with the sauber mercedes vs Lmp1

[@UberBug1]

The 962 coming to Mulsanne straight "Lemme show him with what am made of"

[@Jesko.]

Then throughout the Porsche curves the 963 dominates

[@aqiimkhairin101]

And then 963 goes "you're not Porsche enough if you can't beat me at Porsche curves"

[@purwantiallan5089]

​@@aqiimkhairin101963 while chasing 962: *Deep Resonance from Aqours Starts Playing*.

[@epicmotorsport856]

Nice switchback by the 963 at the end. The hybrid power and a shorter gearing helped a lot too.

[@purwantiallan5089]

The 962 easily beaten the Alpine LMH tho.😅

[@Inazuma68]

Group C were real monsters. Sauber C9 was over 400 km/h on Mulsanne straight

[@zoobi27]

Nope, they never got over 380 ish kph (240 mph) eventhough MAYBE in ideal conditions it could go faster. Also it was the C11, not the C9. And also they did not put turbo pressure too high coz it would damage the engine beyond qualifications. Finally if you think group C were monsters (and yes they were) they were kind of docile. True monsters were CanAm prototypes or end Group C GTP / IMSA cars. The only prototype that truly went over 400 kmh on Mulsanne straight was the WM P88. Guess what happened to the car ? Failed and gave up after a few laps

[@dodenmanniskan8846]

It was a WM Peugeot that went to 407 km/h on Mulsanne in fact. They did for the sake of doing it.

[@masterkamen371]

​@@dodenmanniskan8846 they didn't even finish the race, they broke down a few hours in because the cooling was crap. It was literally just a showoff

[@dodenmanniskan8846]

@@masterkamen371 exactly. They were all about to do it, a showoff and voila.

[@purwantiallan5089]

​@@dodenmanniskan8846Umi Sonoda's R89C and Setsuna Yuki's Minolta 88C-V both also can reach 416kph on Mulsanne Straight.

[@Starfire_Storm]

Fun fact: The Porsche 962 never even got close to the 3:01 in Le Mans, even at a time when there weren't any chicanes in the Mulsanne Straight or even the Dunlop Chicane. It only ever got to the 3:15's. For comparison, the 963's time with the chicanes was in the 3:24 range.

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

Yeah I got the lap times horribly wrong, don't know what I did. Sorry!

[@FranciscoRamirezAraya]

@@THEWINDTUNNEL probably modern tyres

[@MrKanooe]

@@FranciscoRamirezAraya Most likely, yeah

[@fabulouscarcharts5467]

Maybe the top speed ? Is it the vanilla 962 ? I struggle going faster than 360 km/h with it. Nice work with the cameras anyway.

[@purebloodsunite7489]

track surface would be much faster and less bumpy now.

[@rouge4736]

THAT 962 IS BEAUTIFUL

[@nino3639]

The 963 even beautiful

[@michaelgriffiths7937]

I think it’s impossible for any top class Le Mans car to not be beautiful

[@michaelgriffiths7937]

Yes even the GTR LM Nismo

[@potatopizzacar3318]

​@@michaelgriffiths7937yes even the american caddy on le mans

[@purwantiallan5089]

​@@michaelgriffiths7937the 1995 GTR LM NISMO Race Car?

[@AloneRacecar]

It’s always awesome to see how a blast from the past race car can taken on its modern counterpart! 👍 Nice video.

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

Thanks man!

[@purwantiallan5089]

Wish the 2000 Falcon XR8 also takes on the Vanwall on Le Mans without chicanes.

[@machinemessiah12]

This was more exciting than the current F1 season so far.

[@mionellessi3086]

name 3 things that arent

[@machinemessiah12]

@@mionellessi3086 good point

[@Inazuma68]

When you watched F1 in the 80s and 90s like me, than you are not interested anymore in that kindergarden….

[@recarsion]

The real WEC is too, 6 Hours of Imola 2 weeks ago was great

[@horsecrazyviking7121]

@@mionellessi3086 watching water boil, ice melt, and the temperature changing on a thermometer.

[@user-gl7te7jm1q]

The 962's high straight line speed takes back almost all of the margin gained by the 963's strong downforce effect in the corner sections and the motor assist that works from low speeds.

[@isaireyes5129]

Now, let them race for 24 hours 💀

[@carmonajr18]

The 962’s got crazy speed, but the 963’s got way more downforce. Which is why it’s able to turn in the corners way faster than its older counterpart. Great race, nevertheless.

[@iceblade019]

And more importantly miles better tyres and suspension

[@keisuketakahasi4584]

no shit sherlock

[@Kierenstanden-qz7eu]

Low drag

[@Kierenstanden-qz7eu]

What about if it was the 962 C with its bigger spoiler wouldn’t it loose its straight line speed ?

[@kresimirsimunovic5333]

Peugeot 905 Evo 1 would eat them both for breakfast, lighter (750 kg), naturally aspirated engine (no turbo, so no turbo lag), more downforce, more aerodynamically efficient, it would lose on top speed compared to Porsche 962, not sure about Porsche 963.

[@pederfallbom]

1980:s car VS modern!? No big surprise the 963 would win but makes the 962 even more impressive 🥳💪

[@toro4271]

Idea Porsche Endurance evolution race 917, 917k 917lh 917/30, 936, 956, 962, 962 LH, 911 GT1, WSC 95, RS Spyder, 919 2015, 2016, 2017, Hybrid Evo, 963

[@starmaster488lol9]

wasnt there a Group C car after the 962?

[@toro4271]

@@starmaster488lol9 yeah I think so 956 or something Didn't out it down since I don't know if that's the right model

[@starmaster488lol9]

@@toro4271 yep, thats the one, 956 caused the 962 to bee made.

[@DrMabors]

936 was between 917 and 956. There is even a full onboard lap from 1977 on YT :)

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

Doing it if Porsche wins Le Mans next month. That or a pole

[@TheBigDawgSL]

The 962 was lethal down the straight but it was a lumbering brute in the corners. The 963 is more refined. That's why it wasnt sweating because the technical part of the track was where it made the gap up

[@Extra-sw7je]

Love this comparisons of cornering vs power

[@kitoshou1141]

"you can only defeat a Porsche with a Porsche"

[@mikelin7]

Or Mazda 787B 😂😂

[@mikelin7]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/p2mQmmWnpNmmabcsi=gogsI6rJfyTYtyaw

[@Kierenstanden-qz7eu]

Or a jag or a sauber

[@sashingopaul3111]

@@mikelin7that implies everybody else has 200kg of extra ballast.

[@trance9158]

When Mazda Jaguar or sauber catch up with race wins over Porsche come back ... Smh

[@VicarOfMayhem]

That was very good! Nice job!

[@sheldoncooper8199]

The Nissan R92 CP would ve been even more impressive i bet.

[@Vellano43]

Great video...I didn't think it would be that close

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

Thank you!

[@bruces3613]

Hypercars can't race in the wet apparently.

[@VkmSpouge]

Fantastic demonstration of the attributes of the two cars. The 962 is an absolute monster down the Mulsanne. The 963's superior aerodynamics and downforce meant it was glorious through the Porsche Curves.

[@SG-yf3pp]

This shows why overtaking was much easier back then. Going ultimately fast and then slow down with crappy brakes.

[@pigeonpoo1823]

Look how small and cute the 962 is. Similar as to when you compared old snd new F1 cars. Thanks bud.

[@FreeRadical09]

Imagine how fun and interesting would it be to have this duel in real life, one being a NASA rocket with wheels and the other being a MAGLEV train. The fuel - tires strategy would be a game of chicken between both teams!

[@nextgengaming7803]

That 962 on Gt7 is absolutely lethal in vr. Love it

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

That has to be one of the most visceral experiences in simracing!

[@marcrannou9370]

@@THEWINDTUNNEL Try it on Assetto Corsa, you will see what "visceral in VR" really mean 😉

[@FirebonE_88]

The 962 on the Mulsanne straight: ”I'ma get you. Oh, I'ma get you!" (In Roman Pierce's voice)

[@vb917]

And in 1971 in practice the Wyer Gulf Porsche 917 LH went up to 396 km/h on the Les Hunaudieres Mulsanne without chicanes.

[@06dpa]

Looking at the fact that the 962 has a way better power to weight ratio, the main differences come down to aerodynamic efficiency (downforce/drag), tyres (I'd like to believe they are period correct), torque curve and the gearbox.

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

Right on!

[@TheodoreWatkinsBasketball]

Wow, that was something.

[@andrewcarter9649]

Would be interesting to see if the 963 had the proper gearing for the full Mulsane.

[@sirafoxtron1701]

That's a close one!

[@omeshsingh8091]

If the hypercar designers knew that they wouldn't run with the chicanes then they would have changed the gearing to give a higher top speed.

[@rmack9226]

sick video. subbed

[@Alex-yt8gn]

So in conclusion the new Hypercars are faster in the Corners, but slower on the Straights.

[@ColinKasper55]

I find it ironic that they have an ALMOST similar name, just that the number is different.

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

It makes a lot of sense. Both are Porsche's weapons for a golden era of endurance racing

[@starmaster488lol9]

trackday race? P1 GTR Zonda R Revolucion Ferrari 599XX Evoluzione etc. also you should do Can-Am cars around chicaneless sarthe, would be exciting to see cars like the 2J and Toyota 7 actually do a race.

[@sbeve7445]

This also shows that power to weight is far from everything

[@TastierBackInThe80s]

Even if the 962 loses, it still wins.

[@B-A-L]

The Group C cars were things of beauty compared to the monstrosities we get today!

[@AstrodinoJohn]

What if we change the 963 gear ratio to make it faster in the straights?

[@Madibooox]

To be fair, in a time attack without slipstream the 963 would have destroyed the 962. A good race and an interesting comparison either way!

[@planetfun85]

How did you manage to reach 390kph in the 962 on Assetto Corsa? Normally, it tops out at 360 on straight line.

[@viewedguide6706]

Bugatti bolide vs different categories please

[@UltraSonic17]

Group C. Those cars were absolute beasts.

[@user-zn8bp2wp8e]

Bring out the Toyota TS050. Fastest qualifying 3:14 and fastest race lap 3:17. This year best qualifying was way north of 3:20.

[@mickroom7603]

962 is the most beautiful car of its era

[@DJDouglasWarden]

Pretty cool

[@xXturbo86Xx]

This is a videogame, and videogames never depict cars properly. You need REAL TELEMETRY to do that. These old beasts handled a lot better than we think.

[@a-sword417]

Always down to the Drag Race!!! 💪

[@GT4tube]

Group C beautiful in past than nowadays.. :(

[@musicstewart9744]

Now you have me wondering if you have ever put cars with this sort of power on Monza with the banking included. I’ll go look in a few.

[@guilherme2107]

Hypercar sim gostei do vídeo

[@Marc-zi4vg]

Fun fact the cars that from the abhorrently expensive last regulation set of group C (1991 - 1994) we as fast as the late LMP1 cars

[@vfifty9182]

The 963 Gearbox is for the short straight.

[@horsecrazyviking7121]

Downforce vs. Drag.

[@carlosmagnus717]

Porsche 962's in their last participations in Le Mans reached 370 km/h (1988), always with the "long tail" version, like this one in the video, but with the advertising of "Shell", the contract with "Rothmans" had ended.

[@user-gy6sf5ox6w]

Mulsanne straits without sicanes is anknown factor for hyper car!

[@foilhat]

So, technically, if I need to just go to Carrefour and back, 962 is better.

[@EbizzerHH]

The Aero and grip is not there for granddaddy! But he was fast anyways! ^^

[@PascaLM_]

Without chicanes, a Porsche 963 can reach more than 355 km/h, and with chicanes a Porsche 962 couldn't reach 390 km/h (391 exactly by Hans Stuck in 1988)

[@kresimirsimunovic5333]

I think Porsche 962 top speed was 366 km/h in 1993 with chicanes.

[@Masca79]

Try it on the old Spa.

[@BRMCaptChaos]

962 slowed down by the mass of the balls of the driver.

[@kennyramsey4555]

Aero is cool!

[@load714]

If it was reality the group C would walk away with it. Just asked Mazda.

[@rookie_at_all_things]

Let them race for 24 hours, add F1 and LMP1 and the other Group Cs and you got the best race on earth

[@lucahitman]

in all these channels, you can also race a fiat panda against a bugatti veyron, but inevitably, you do not know how, the victory will be always decided at the photo finish 😁

[@TheThink5op]

Nice. Now what about fuel consumption and tyre wear over 24h ?

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

The 962 would have no chance. It needs to pit way before even with that massive fuel tank

[@Dmooreslotreviews]

And people say LMH/LMDh aren't fast.

[@giovannibalsamo6178]

lmh/lmdh are fast, they're just dramatically slower compared to lmp1-h

[@fayyadguissida]

BoP effect .​@@giovannibalsamo6178

[@pascalsadourny4075]

Group C is real car. Hyper car is just technology

[@iavon78]

The tires used in this simulation are the same on both cars? Or are older tires simulated on the 962?

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

Each car has it's original tyres

[@iavon78]

@@THEWINDTUNNEL A test with tires that have the same characteristics would be very interesting. Even comparisons between new bikes and those from twenty years ago are made with the same modern tyres. It would be much better to evaluate the real differences between the two cars, without blaming the tires

[@ADMaw11]

To think there's roughly 40 years between those two cars!

[@KingRobbo045]

try with Sauber C9 , thing is a ROCKET

[@jean-claudedevoudelle9154]

Les 407 kilomètres heures de la Peugeot des 24 h du mans des annes 1990 restes imbattable pour encore longtemps

[@alasdairtaylor3195]

Wasn't the hypercar's gear ratios too short for that long straight - i.e. its limited to 355 ish because that's all it can reach with the chicanes

[@markmierau5189]

If you're trying to talk at the start of these videos, you really need to turn the music down.

[@nidhishg1622]

Bro make , lmh with no hybrid speed restriction vs lmp1 . Comparison

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

The LMP1s are a lot faster, imagine if I restrict the Hypercar...

[@HepauDK]

The 963 would have won with a bigger margin, hadn't it been sandbagged at the end.

[@15DEAN1995]

I hated the 963 when I first saw it but it's really grown on me the more I've seen it. Caddy's still best sound and the Peugeot 9x8 best looking but the Porsche is great middle ground.

[@byza.rl_09]

Group C no hesitation

[@TheVaultIsMine]

Possibly the closest finish on the channel!

[@UberBug1]

There was closer ==)

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

What if I tell you it's not even in the top 10... 🙃

[@user-uj3ch6xg6m]

Speed is needed in the Hypercars more boost power

[@simon704]

Only because the rules limit the HP on the LM Hypers

[@ingocernohorsky]

How about efficeny? Who can drive longer stints?

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

The 963 even with over half the fuel tank!

[@heyhags5583]

If only the 962 had driven cleanly through the Ford chicane...

[@ChinoKawaii1021]

ye hypercars don't even do those 355 make it more like 320km/h

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

With chicanes! www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/how-fast-are-hypercars-57613

[@ChinoKawaii1021]

@@THEWINDTUNNEL ok maybe not 320, but all I see is 340 like in the race, the top speed was 344 with a slipstream at the beginning of the race (so probably multiple car slipstream), the longer straight wouldn't make a difference, that's where these cars top out

[@purwantiallan5089]

Group C cars always far superior against LMH on long straights.

[@user-pv7ir7qg4f]

962/956:Doh!🤦

[@leemoldon]

If you went back in time i wonder what the best technology you could take back in time and add to an old lemans or F1 car to make the biggest difference.....brakes, tyres, aero.......makes you wonder....well it does me anyway 😅

[@Flasherok]

We need that hypercar which can reach 390 kmh

[@caseinnitratjr6861]

You could have taken a faster group c car. Ok but it is a Great Porsche Evolution comparison

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

Yeah, I wnated a 962 vs 963 fight!

[@simeonlinke3437]

I would like to see this happen with both cars taking the racing line.

[@THEWINDTUNNEL]

The theoretical qualy times are just that ;)

[@hellishcrossfire1]

Grupo C é o automobilismo de verdade

[@kresimirsimunovic5333]

You should compare Peugeot 905 B to Hypercars, it would be faster than Hypercars, even with latest technology, Hypercars would be slower than Group C 3,5, because Group C 3,5 cars are lighter and more aerodynamically efficient. You should put Peugeot 905 Evo 1 or 2 against LMP2 car from 2018.

[@andrepitanga9352]

Os carros atuais só são rápidos de curva

[@zeusminoan]

It was obvious a drivers mistake at last corner lost the momentum or else this was an easy win.

[@Liam94Smith]

Why remove chicanes though? Just a deliberate way to bias the result.

[@Jojo44_Racing]

In granturismo 7 the hyper car has no chance against the group C’a at lemans

[@ruialmeida5217]

i doubt the results... now put the STIG on the 962