Can a Retro Bike Handle a Modern Groupset & Disc Brakes?

[@gcntech]

What did you think of this? Would you rather the modern components or keep the classics? Let us know in the comments!

[@panzerveps]

I'd keep it as a rim bike, but upgrade the components.

[@mithral999]

The only thing I would have changed is the use of zip ties, some metal hose clasps would have kept a little classic style in there

[@sepg5084]

This bike did not need all that welding and disc brakes. Modern Rims and Rim Brakes are the perfect march for it.

[@suncuevas1238]

Love it 😉

[@Pionirish]

Braze on disc brake mounts but still using zip ties for the cables? 1/10 *bodge* Got someone else to do the welding? Double bodge

[@stanislawwawrzyczek873]

I have been riding various retro builds with modern groupsets for commuting for about a decade now. There's a lot that I can say in their favour: unlike your very expensive build for most peaple this is a great way to save an old frame from junkyard and give a second life to your aging groupset that you've just upgraded (or you use secondhand parts). For the short distance city rides a 13kg vintage steel bike is all you need - they can be more comfortable on rough roads and you get more excercise for the time spent cycling on a heavier bike! Needless to say aerodynamics of the bike does not matter if you ride in your casual clothes in the city traffic. I often cary 15kgs or more of grocery shopping on my vintage Bianchi, so really the weight of the bike does not matter much. Looking a bit scruffy they are more likely to be overlooked by the thieves - no stress locking the bike outside of a shop or pub. Last but not least, for 500quid or so you can build a decent bike (and have fun in the process!) that has a cool factor you could never match with anything you can buy new for that much.

[@jontyarcheryedgar]

“Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should”- Dr Ian Malcom, Jurassic Park

[@Wildschwein_Jaeger]

"The greatest teacher, failure is."

[@jacobrose3428]

You watched that on itv yesterday didn’t you

[@s.j.5850]

You nailed it perfectly!!!

[@nopy99]

I don’t believe it. I just don’t believe it. I bring youtube viewers here to protect me from these characters, and the only one I’ve got on my side is the blood-sucking lawyer.

[@jannevellamo]

Sounds like the story of Fauci creating new superviruses in a Chinese lab, at the expense of the taxpayers, with intent to kill the taxpayers.

[@willbowen3101]

Now you need to give it back to Manon to do her 100mile route again

[@mt24Carson]

Yes, would be interesting to hear her feedback.

[@tomgilfedder3515]

Was thinking the same.

[@sdolman79]

Definitely

[@Ramoonus]

poor girl

[@telepoiss]

+1

[@make1tup]

I rebuilt my classic late 80s steel bike with a modern mechanical Campy groupset and aero wheels, aero carbon bars and a carbon fork. I also had custom internal cable routing to delete the downtube shifters. Absolutely brilliant to ride and completely unique.

[@Zinbou1]

Can we see it somehow ?

[@Nik-gh6gz]

Disc or rim breaks

[@make1tup]

@@Nik-gh6gz rim brakes, too risky to mount calipers on the slender steel tubing.

[@12pagani]

What carbon fork did you use? I'm building a paletti super prestige racing bike and wanted tonupgatded and add lightness where tastefully possible but wanted to keep it overal retro

[@jerwinusacdin8954]

I did the same, drilled two internal cabling through the top tube for a neater looking. My only problem is when the rain gets inside the steel tube, I somehow get some rust inside of the steel tube.

[@eyenoball]

Hack/Bodge on the next GCN Show: "so I got my welder friend Tom to put some disc brake mounts on my vintage bike..."

[@stejayrado]

Bodge and why! Ruined a perfect frame with rubby disc brakes

[@ehtikhet]

@@stejayrado fair, but to retort, disc brakes are better for braking.

[@rhobson]

@@ehtikhet in real world usage, only marginally. They are only better in the wet, but some of us rather not go out when the weather isn't favourable, so it's mostly irrelevant.

[@kimberleemodel7182]

Bodge

[@tommurphy4307]

believe it or not- rim brakes are lighter and more efficient. finer old tubesets weren't intended to handle the loads that disc brakes can put on them. if you want disc brakes, get a disc-brake equipped bike.

[@Wonder380]

Next challenge: ride 200 miles in the updated retro bike.

[@kenhunt]

300 in 24 hours

[@Grovreicraynth]

Hell yeah! Hahahaha. I would wanna see that. Or do the same as the scotland 500 with Mr. Beaumont

[@iancuk]

Well, that would be an easy challenge. Just try Everesting on it😂

[@wmbechelli]

Or just get Manon to do the 100 miles route again on it.

[@paolobramucci3609]

@@wmbechelli That what I was thinking too!

[@cycleistic1365]

1:25 Braking power on old road bikes may improve greatly when any old, often petrified brake pads are changed to new and fresh ones and brakes adjusted properly. Sometimes cleaning the rim can also help, but the pads should be looked into the very first. Happened to me few years back having bought an 80's road bike that had stood in a garage for about 10 years. Whew, those braking distances and close calls on the old pads, lucky to be here with you today!

[@stephensaines7100]

This is a common point when complaining of 'the limitations of caliper brakes'. You have to search to find blocks (pads) that come even close to some of the compounds available decades past. Some blocks had *too much grab*! The downside to that, besides having to modulate them precisely, was the rate of wear which is inversely proportional to the 'grab'. But they still lasted far longer than present day disc pads.

[@james_chatman]

Your so right. Kool Stops, an adjustment and a ScotchBrite pad on the rims will transform old brakes.

[@PRH123]

Yes welding on mounts for disc brakes here was overkill, new rim brakes on new wheels would have worked great…

[@thudtheace]

I hate disc brakes, sure they work okay, but when they leak (especially dot-4 ones) the paint gets eaten off your bike, it makes a mess and your brakes don't work. I prefer good old simple caliper brakes.

[@cycleistic1365]

@@thudtheace Hydraulic ones are bit of a high maintenance nuisance indeed, but also high performing, good for MTBs and cargo bikes etc. hard use. Mechanical discs again are a good compromise between mechanical rim brakes and hydraulic discs. I'd choose mechanical discs for which ever use case maximum braking power isn't paramount.

[@jeffmitchell7071]

Like a few have said : A better (531) frame and modernise the rim brakes rather than discs. That plus the other mods would have been a cool upgrade and much more balanced?

[@williamboler8709]

No kidding. I've done this already to a 1990 Lemond Ventoux. It's easy, despite what they say here. And 2000+ Ultegra or better rim brakes with modern wheels are just fine. Having rode both a fully modern (2018 Propel) and updated vintage, the vintage is frankly not far off. It's the "80%" at a bargain price.

[@jimmynich4791]

I was just thinking that, just upgrade it to what will fit the frame as it was, I bet there's some very good rim brakes could've gone on there that would've done the job weather permitting. Upgrading just the wheels would've made a pretty big difference.

[@jimmynich4791]

@@williamboler8709 That's the thing I want to do, get a classic steel road bike and upgrade. Maybe don't even need to upgrade if the bike has good components for it's time, I'm guessing this bike didn't.

[@Kromaatikse]

@@jimmynich4791 It looks like the components it started with *were* good - for the time. But that still means a standard 12-speed gearing with a 52/40 crankset and 14-28 cluster. That usually puts the top gear near 100" and the bottom gear near 38", the latter being far too high for climbing any substantial hill. And I suspect the brake blocks were salvaged from one of the other scrap bikes the vendor had piled in his yard; combined with steel rims, it's not surprising they didn't perform to modern standards. I do think that a relatively modest investment would pay dividends on a bike like this. A modern 2x7 drivetrain would be a 46/30 crankset and 12-32 cassette, giving a marginally higher top gear and a *much* lower bottom gear, and that would be pretty cheap. New wheels with aluminium rims, paired with modern brake blocks, would transform the braking performance. Right there, that addresses the two biggest problems that Manon originally faced.

[@jimmynich4791]

@@Kromaatikse Yeah. I went to a local bike shop talking to them about me getting a classic frame from a guy at work and putting new parts on it, the guy in the shop told me it would be an expensive exercise then showed me a £3k bike lol.

[@lizardbliz]

GCN "I'd like to see how an old frame holds up" then hacks it apart to completely change the frame

[@KyrosMoutsouris]

exactly...

[@vaas_4435]

only "hack" was the disc brakes which imo its useless

[@lizardbliz]

@@vaas_4435 they literally change the back triangle. Try again

[@s.j.5850]

Yeah, rim brakes have stood the test of time. It was totally unnecessary. Do the benefits outweigh the costs?

[@johns3106]

Y'know...lots of people put LOTS of miles on "retro" bikes back before they were "retro".

[@cornishcat11]

and some still enjoy riding them today

[@thebrowns5337]

Lots of people still do. There are groups of retired folks cycling more miles than some of so called weekend warriors on bikes older than you are. See it all the time in the summer (before lockdown that is) and when you chat to them you'd be amazed justnhow far they ride. Granted, the bikes are posh but they are still 30 years old etc. Puts a smile on my face every time I see them.

[@timboha8191]

@@thebrowns5337 I did a C2C a couple of years ago, we were all on our fancy bikes in our Lycra and we even had a support van! Every time we stopped we kept getting passed by the same group of elderly cyclists on touring bikes. They were doing the same route, but carried everything with them (even food) and were wearing shirts jackets and ties! Put it all into perspective and made me feel quite stupid.😂

[@Gmh6477]

Exactly 👍

[@onebackzach]

I absolutely agree. Modern bikes definitely add a lot of convenience and performance, but those old bikes were meant to be ridden. Bikes weren't designed by a bunch of cavemen 50 years ago, and I find that with comfortable points of contact (i.e. saddle, handlebars, etc.) putting in miles isn't a problem. There was ultimately money tied up for the manufacturers in racing, so of course they made the bikes as good as possible.

[@xXOOooTTTooOOXx]

I installed an ultegra 6600 Groupset on my 1983 Peugeot together with mavic ksyrium elite wheels and it runs perfectly smooth. Neo-Retro is in my opinion the perfect combination of aesthetics and technology.

[@s.j.5850]

Manufacturer & media hype. It's one thing if you are racing & another if you just want to enjoy riding. It is the same hype used to sell cars. If you want to spend the extra money on the non-essentials - hey, it's your dollars. Most of us riders prefer a decent bike that is not super heavy & is comfortable for the type of riding that we do.

[@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391]

I went backwards and converted my Peugeot to single speed.

[@tommurphy4307]

i removed & recycled the shimano 600 entry-level crap that came on my bike & put a nice, old, bastard group of weinmann, suntour, and avocet parts on her and love it. love my old araya dual-wall rims- i got some dt swiss spokes and laced up a set of wheels on some avocet gen II hubs. 27 pounds is nothing to crow about but she's an old road cruiser (will be 46 years old in february). not very fond of shimano 600 but i like some of the vintage dura-ace stuff and love their chains.

[@MozOnBikes]

So what exactly have you found with the limit of the frame geometry? Very strange statement with no explanation.

[@senorspiegel]

STAY TUNED TO FIND OUT

[@The1trueDave]

I didn't think seat/head angles had changed radically on standard road bikes (not talking triathlon bikes here!). 73 for both used to be pretty standard; I just Googled the Planet X Pro Carbon and it's about the same in med/large sizes. I'd guess the wheelbase on the Triumph might have been a bit longer originally (though it's obviously had entirely new dropouts fitted...) so I'd guess it's a little slower steering but you could probably live with that. I'd have thought the frame flex might be a bigger issue to a 21st-century rider though...

[@dlevi67]

@@The1trueDave "I'd have thought the frame flex might be a bigger issue to a 21st-century rider though..." Possibly. Then again, there's 10+ kg of steel tubing in there, and it's not like the mechanical properties of _that_ have changed over time.

[@The1trueDave]

@@dlevi67 The frame is probably more like 2.5kg, maybe 3 if it's a real clunker. Forks may add another kilo. Old frames have a lot more flex around the BB because you couldn't design in stiffness with steel tubes the way you can with carbon or hydroformed aluminium. Look at anything built with those materials and the BB area is a huge stiff hollow box. It's very difficult to do the same thing with tubing of a constant diameter. I'm not saying it's impossible and I'm sure top end track bikes found a way round it but I doubt they'd have expended that much effort on designing a 70s 'sports' bike...

[@robbchastain3036]

I think he wants it to be more retro, like a Raleigh Chopper.

[@Djm4114]

Retro Mods are one of my most favorite projects and one of the reasons I got back into cycling. There's nothing like Shimano 105 on an old Schwinn World Sport.

[@TheMarman57]

I've still got my metallic yellow Peugot 105 Carbolite from the 1980's. It's very light, really thin tyres, and it still holds the land speed record ( my land speed record) down the "Gausekotte" monster 4 kilometer 14% hill near Detmold at a top speed of 119 Kmh !!! I nearly came off once going for it on that descent. Glad I'm still here to tell the tale.

[@Venus1Star]

I did 104 miles on a mountain bike with shocks, a pair of shorts and Nike Airs on my feet. You super bike, fancy shoes people are soft.

[@toddmcdonough]

great idea! Thoughts and prayers to the brave soul who pulls the front brake on a hairpin decent.

[@Wildschwein_Jaeger]

Well at least the frame is robust enough to survive.

[@edmundscycles1]

@@Wildschwein_Jaeger they can use it to identify the pillock who put a disc on a fork that folded with the first bit of hard braking . As their face will cover 100m of prime tarmac .

[@sadlfjasdfacv]

@GCN< A reminder, the VAST MAJORITY of bikes people actually own and use don't have electronic shifting disk anything.

[@WIMMine]

Would have loved to see Manon's reaction when she gets it back!

[@kwintenvangeit]

Me too!

[@markclevedon81]

She will head for the hills in Triumph!

[@Zzyyxx22]

Would’ve been interested to see that frame with Tiagra Tim brakes or something a little more do-able for the standard home mechanic rather than welding on disc mounts.

[@skyperoni4530]

I did it with Shimano claris, old steel nishiki frame. It's actually my favorite bike to ride

[@habs]

YEP!!! definitely would have made more sense...

[@bradcomis1066]

GCNs main mission is to tell you that old bikes are bad and new bikes are good. They tell you that you MUST spend big bucks and to not bother with anything else. They are very wrong of course, but since their mission is to sell expensive kit adding Taigra 4700 with a set of light alloy rim brakes wheels was a no go from the start. Best thing to do is to not watch GCN. I gave up on them years ago and just check back in every once in a while and every time they confirm to me that their videos are total marketing drivel.

[@user-hs2hd7wp9g]

Why do you sound so salty ? Ofc a 105 groupset would be better bang for your bucks but that’s a boring video -> no views -> no sponsors

[@pretzelhunt]

@@bradcomis1066 Nice youre back! Its not really like it used to be, and new doesnt outright mean expensive! you should watch a few more and not buy anything!

[@MIAthe305]

I’d love to see this vintage bike with a modern group set vs a modern bike with an old school group set (like the ones you took off this bike)

[@robertytoop]

I would have loved to see more detail of the conversion process. Some information on the challenges of using new equipment on old frames and how to work around these issues would have been fascinating. An opportunity missed on this video I feel...

[@cccpkingu]

Same problem as with new frames, they need to be super straight and to spec to be able to do it. Back in the day it wasn't as tight, and this mid cost frame isn't the best starting point, but unless crashed I am willing to bet the BB and rear triangle is better spec than any China made carbon bikes.

[@Guy1138]

Etap on a vintage bike: Hack Discs on vintage fork: Bodge

[@einundsiebenziger5488]

More bodges: Putting the old and cheap seat pillar/clamp and handlebar foam padding back on rather than using a decent one-piece seatpost and proper bar tape.

[@Justin-zv4cm]

You can also give an 80-year-old man a fresh set of breast implants with the same logic used here. I miss Jon Cannings.

[@dgianstefani5694]

Putting disk breaks on a rim brake frame and fork is risky, especially with metal fatigue of a frame decades old. The stress points on the front fork for example would be severe. Would not trust this build at any kind of real speed if I had to sharply brake.

[@samuelhopely4853]

Fatigue in chromoly raked forks is negligible. There is rarely enough stress in the average power cycle to deform the fork enough. The force transfer from a disc brake into a raked fork is similar to that with a rim brake, and the bow of the fork enables optimal absorption. The only issue tends to be some minor asymmetric flex in extreme cases, but you're more likely to lock up the wheel before that happens. Good rule for bike frames is unless you're dealing with Aluminum alloys, don't worry about fatigue stress.

[@sepg5084]

@@samuelhopely4853 If they just put modern rims and rim brakes on it, it would have been perfect. The fact that they had to cut into the frame and had a profrssional frame builder weld a disc brake caliper mount on it seems forced and unnecessary. If they were gonna start cutting and welding onto the frame, then why stop at forcing disc brakes on a rim brake frame? Might as well cut it up and re-weld it to give it modern geometry then?

[@bjtena]

@@sepg5084 Just for fun, buddy. Also due to the fact that there are many classic bike owners with these modifications in mind. In my case, I have an 11 speed groupset on a 1984 Trek with Reinolds 631 tubing with a recently welded braze on mount.

[@jotcarey]

@@samuelhopely4853 A search for images of conventional steel forks retrofitted with disk brakes shows plenty of examples of forks that catastrophically failed, e.g., see the image at www.rodbikes.com/articles/brakes.html. Steel forks built for disk brakes are much heavier in construction and larger in diameter than conventional forks. Steel isn't magic.

[@alexdi1367]

This is just wrong. That disc puts a huge torsional load on the fork it was never designed to take. Similarly-modified forks can, and have, collapsed under hard braking.

[@thomasdobson3823]

The welding for disc brakes wasn’t necessary. There are still some good modern rim brakes ....

[@henkdevrjes9640]

Entering a world of pain, as modern wheels are ever so slightly smaller than their classic counterparts... So rim brakes can be difficult to fit with modern wheels

[@thomasdobson3823]

@@henkdevrjes9640 old forks might not take the stress points of discs... My fixie got converted from 700c to 26 inch wheels and yes ... the brakes were a problem.... which was resolved by buying long reach calipers ... also managed to put a derailleur as too many hills ... 😄...

[@noptimized]

Rim brake roll call! Where’s my “modern downtube shifters” crew at?! Smh. The most interesting part of this video was seeing how a disc brake conversion might perform.

[@HaloTupolev]

@@henkdevrjes9640 27" wheels are only 4mm larger in radius than 700c. On most older bikes, the conversion can be made by simply adjusting the height of the brake pads in the slots. When this isn't adequate or possible, it's usually possible to solve the issue by changing out the brake. Also, many road bikes from back in the day came with tubulars that have exactly the same brake track position as 700c wheels, and so there's no issue to begin with. And of course there are a few old road bikes that just came with 700c wheels to begin with, like my 1979 Fuji America.

[@coffeepot3123]

@@henkdevrjes9640 Far from it, a simple google search and you'll find New Old-Stock wheels.

[@briansteele2723]

Alex seems a great addition but Manon seems to kill everyone on the bike while laughing at the same time 🤣

[@ericbritton8146]

This revision is absolutely remarkable. I actually thought the groupset you would choose would have mechanical disc brakes, but you surprised me by installing hydraulic disc brakes. Once again, absolutely remarkable!

[@Navessalah]

Basically, when you asked your friendly neighborhood wielder to help you out, the answer to the title question for me, personally, became obvious: no.

[@sepg5084]

True

[@mikeburton8426]

Agreed, if the fix costs more than a new bike it really isn’t worth it

[@jonitan76]

agreed, its a no. but if he stick with rim brake.. maybe its a litle bit better.

[@cccpkingu]

@@mikeburton8426 It is equally hard to get a new bike worth anything.

[@aberdeenal3234]

Hack or Bodge...it's a Hack from me but hold on I got a mate to weld....

[@trroland1248]

Didn’t show enough of the modification on the fork to install disc brake mounts. That aspect would have me more worried.

[@Kuriketto]

Folding like a bad hand of cards.

[@donk115]

This was and is still, all I can think about.

[@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage]

I put a new Ultegra kit on my 83 Pro Miyata! kzbin.info/www/bejne/e52ueZWVgdZ8d9k

[@TGRacing]

So, that would be a 'no' then. If you mean without chopping the frame to bits and welding in new components. Red eTap could be fitted to a rim braked bike.

[@mrrodriguezHLP]

I updated my 1999 Trek 2300 with Campagnolo Potenza 11 and Fulcrum wheels. I also got rid of the quill stem, got a threadless adapter with a Deda stem and compact handlebars. Originally my plan was to slowly build a new bike, and continue to ride the 2300 on newer components. I'd purchase the frame last. Unfortunately, with the quarantine bike boom, supply of frames are low and prices are high, but I love my bike as is, and it's fun to ride.

[@JibbaJabber]

This is hilariously stupid. Mannon's face will be priceless when you hand it back😂

[@jamiebriggs7469]

I've done very similar over lockdown. Had a 70s 531 frame knocking about for a few years, I've updated it with DT Swiss wheels, a mix of sram force and rival 22 gearing, carbon seatpost, handlebars and crankset. Whole thing comes in under 9kg with pedals

[@leadsled213]

In Texas, FB Marketplace and Craigslist are loaded with retro bikes for sale. The climate tends to keep them in pretty good shape.

[@keithkelley1436]

Sure, there's the "Why would you..", "Just call your neighborhood frame builder.." etc comments. All true. But hey...I love that someone shows this. I've run through 5 dozen retro disasters to put them back on the road as actual AFFORDABLE bikes for people who think $300 is outta reach. Kudos for showing what someone will sooner or later ask me to do for them.

[@stacyjohnson1064]

Now take the old components you removed and fit them to a modern carbon frame.

[@truthseeker8483]

Haha

[@s.j.5850]

Over-rated carbon fiber. Unless you are racing what's the point? Similar to the fiberglass car bodies vs steel. Is it worth the extra price? How many bicycle riders are bicycle racers? The manufacturers seem to be pushing carbon fiber because it is probably a greater profit margin. The majority of us will never be riding in the Tour De France.

[@truthseeker8483]

@@s.j.5850Carbon Fibre really is an amazing material though...hard to ignore even though I love my real steel bike...

[@s.j.5850]

@@truthseeker8483 Well, I have not taken a ride on one yet so I really cannot comment on the ride qualities of carbon fiber. Just skeptical of media driven hype about anything that tends to be more expensive.

[@user-hs2hd7wp9g]

That comment is just plain stupid, you've never ridden a carbon bike but you're still judging based on... nothing. There is an element of luxury as well as performance, like comparing a Ferrari to a Skoda.

[@robevans5222]

at 1:06 "...cantilever brakes". Nope, those are caliper brakes. Cantilever brakes have a straddle cable, and 2 brake levers that pivot independently on the fork blades (rather than at a single pivot on the fork crown).

[@ogiedee5289]

I would like to see Manon do 100 miles on this bike and hear her comments.

[@icouldntthinkofagoodname7216]

I'm a simple man. I just wanna see Manon

[@Shmack_]

@@icouldntthinkofagoodname7216 hell I'm a married man and I would just like to see mannon 🤣

[@cccpkingu]

It is a sponsored show. They sell modern junk. The presenter thinks disc brakes and carbon fibre wasn't around to give you some idea of the ineptitude.

[@shawnwalsh910]

Great idea. What a cool project! Awesome mash-up of old and new. And highlights the versatility and robustness of steel with the swapping out of the rear drop outs.

[@ldavid2]

Bike designers: we reinforced the non-drive side of the fork and chainstays to withstand the forces generated by disc brake calipers GCN: We're just gonna weld some disc brake mounts on an ancient rim brake frame

[@cccpkingu]

Guess how many forks broke back in the day? Now consider the situation with forks that have disc brakes. Nothing about that design is on the limit of weight to strength, and you can easily strengthen it after adding mounts.

[@ronmatthews1738]

@@cccpkingu It has nothing to do with strength to weight ratio. Disc brakes put far more stress on frames, forks and wheels. A number of manufacturers have had to recall disc forks because they were at risk of failure despite being much stronger than rim brake forks. If you examine a steel disc brake fork you will see it is very big and very heavy in comparison to steel rim brake forks. If this Triumph has just been modified by welding on disc brake mounts it is not safe. I hope a rider doesn't find out the hard way.

[@kyle8952]

@@ronmatthews1738 Exactly. Funny thing, triumph bikes were rebranded raleighs, this a fairly cheap one from the early 80s with a frame and fork shared across zillions of models. I've seen someone bend the fork in four places with drums, so god knows what a few hard pulls on a disc brake will do.

[@JaccoSW]

@@kyle8952 90mm drum brakes + compressionless housing can offer very similar braking performance to disc brakes, albeit with a very different lever feel. And yeah, I've seeen the same pictures.

[@Woopigmavs]

Not quite as old as this rebuild, but I have a 1997 cannondale CAD3 that I have replaced everything on besides frame, fork, and wheels. I put a new tiagra groupset, modern handlebar, and new tires, and the bike pretty much feels new. Love seeing these projects on GCN!

[@sarcodiauk2921]

The problem you have is that you’ve started with a very poor retro frame which would never have been any good to race/ride in the first place. You should have got a genuine thoroughbred retro race bike and then put modern bits onto it for a proper comparison

[@xXcangjieXx]

And rim brakes instead of ruining a good frame.

[@larsfrandsen2501]

Agree!

[@mattybrews]

Hanging in the workshop it looks absolutely rad and out on the road seems like its a real pleasure.

[@SunnyJim93]

I've been riding a 90's Reynolds steel Raleigh Special Products Division frame built with modern Ultegra for the last 6 months and its brilliant. Maybe not as fast as a modern aero bike but so comfortable on bad roads.

[@Biking360]

I recently built up a 1984 Colnago Profil CX frame and out on a relatively modern group set and wheels. It rides like a dream and feels much smoother than my Trek Reminds SL6.

[@johnsmithers284]

Same with my 90 RB-2 with Ultegra

[@brian.d.mobley]

Absolutely fantastic! Im building a retro bike up right now and you’ve motivated me to go for the mods to add a disc Groupset.

[@tonymc90]

Why go for the hassle of discs over a good set of rim brakes? This would be something most enthusiasts could tackle.

[@DaveCM]

I agree with that. Modern rim brakes would be a massive improvement over the brakes that were on it. They weren't even very good brakes for their time.

[@KeithHeinrich]

We happened to have this SRAM disc brake groupset under the workbench (as you do)...

[@tomahoks]

Rim brakes, pffft.

[@gazonatrike7005]

the change from 27" to 700c would be problematic for a decent set of rim brakes without some frame work anyways. Too deep a drop.

[@HaloTupolev]

@@gazonatrike7005 It usually isn't. The difference in radius is only 4mm; most bikes built for 27" wheels can be "converted" to 700c by merely adjusting the brake pads downward in the slots. In the cases where they can't, you can usually address the issue by changing out the brake.

[@fergusfitzgerald977]

Amazing work done here! I have restored a few retro bikes myself but usually fitted them with NOS (new old stock ) - which made things simpler ! I ride my retro bike a bit especially in the summer and often meet up with other retro fans on their bikes. To sum up - they were simpler more hard wearing and more robust but not as super slick as their modern equivalents !

[@ZOB4]

Nice! Probably a blast to ride. One question - why did you go through all that effort, and then leave the bar tape in that state?

[@holden_tld]

yeah i've got a late 70s sekai that i put new shimano 105 on, rim brake tho. i had to make little steel brackets to mount the calipers down lower so they'd reach on 700c wheels. i really like it, my fav ride.

[@s.j.5850]

Saved a bunch of money too!

[@pedroagrela1910]

I wonder what Si and Dan would have to say on the GCN Show if this “neighbor project” was submitted for the “Hack/Bodge” section. 😂🤣

[@schwangster]

Definitely a bodge.

[@StuckOnAFireHydrant]

@@schwangster I'd say it would depend on the amount of zip ties used. > 5 then it's a bodge lmao

[@jamesetheridge6224]

Some nice chrome cable clamps instead of zip ties on the downtube would have looked great. Also, I think that taking it to a frame builder for welding removed the 'you can do this at home' aspect of the video.

[@tomturobin-harrington9064]

After clearly having some nervs in his early videos Alex has really settled in now and is producing some great content, like his sense of humour as well

[@Biking360]

Agreed. Getting used to a camera is tricky put he's now starting to put out some great content.

[@spikev5842]

you mean ... other than this one?!

[@charlesdudek7713]

Love these retro bike upgrades. I know disc brakes are generally better, especially in wet weather but some rim brakes are pretty darn good. I just sold my 1996 GT Arette and if you weren't careful those rim brakes could put you over the handlebars. Enjoyable video.

[@TiberiusPaulSavu]

I still do around 3-4k km a year on my early '80s 10,5 kg Cilo equipped with a mix of old Altus (from back when it was the precursor to indexed shifting on road bikes, not the entry level MTB groupset we have today), Dura-Ace and 600. Out of my 6 bikes it's still my favourite. I bought it 15 years ago for the equivalent of 50 euros. It'll easily keep up in group rides and the road feel is simply great from my point of view. Quality old bikes may need restoring if you've not taken good care of them, what you're trying to do here is polish a turd... Still, it doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you go out and pedal, something people seem to have forgotten around here...

[@jerryavalos9610]

Blending modern components to retro steel frames is vastly becoming a popular trend. Many prefer the ride of quality steel which is comfortable and it soaks up road shock quite well, particular an Italian frame. You can get a good old steel frame, clean it up, spread the rear stays to 130mm which you can on a steel bike and begin the process. I have a Tomassini Italian frame which I am planning on doing just that.

[@mimax45]

This channel really feels like "hey let's do what we did already but this time without Jon."

[@DanuelNuel]

Ok there is two most difficult things when you modernize old junkers. 1. Rear shifter hanger - often bend, imprecise and integrate with frame. You skip this problem with welding - I guess is the best way. 2. BB shell - often in ancient thompson standard. So you need to botch really hard.

[@thelonesculler]

Can you? Yes. But I think the more important question is should you?

[@tsc4842]

No

[@chrisvanbuggenum871]

If it keeps it from the bin and keeps it being ridden, then i think yes. Its no Colnago or Wilier, no one would have cared if that bike never saw the light of day again.

[@johnweightman2002]

My only bike is an almost 49 year old steel frame Raleigh with either original (or close replacement) parts. I bought it new and ride it up to 100 miles a week. I regularly tour around the UK carrying all my camping gear.

[@viryapratama7538]

Well, curious to know the end weight of that built, 12kgs? Or less?

[@Pionirish]

Probably yes as the frame is still heavy. A lightweight 531 frame and it would be closer to 10kg

[@hogdog567]

No, definitely less than 10, probably closer to 9.

[@TomsTenorHorn]

Hi Virya ... not sure about this particular steel frame but my Ellis Briggs 653 weighs in at 1.6 kgs for the frame and 0.65 kgs for the forks .. so only around a kilogram heavier than built with a carbon fibre frame, not such a big difference really.

[@Pionirish]

@@TomsTenorHorn this is a regular cro-mo so probably double the weight of a 653

[@gazonatrike7005]

still left the steel seat post and handlebars, loads left to to update but it was a pants bike to start with, watch the pressed fork crown with that extra braking effort.

[@losti4223]

I think this video motivated me to retro fit my old Look Kg 171 carbon ! Nice job, cool viedo as always, keep on going !

[@paolobramucci3609]

Now, I am interested in having Manon, re ride that 100 mile root and give her review of the bike and how the two rides compare.

[@SkYsLiDeR9000]

I bought a racer to go to work on when I was in my mid twenties. I still have it. About 8 years ago I upgraded all the running gear with modern stuff. It's a bit heavy, yeah. I still ride it. I'm 62 now.

[@webdca123]

While the build was cool, I’m more blown away at the shock that an old bike was ridden 100 miles! As is bikes made before 2010 could even do that.

[@janusz0]

Yes it's a complete lie that I rode my '85 Claud Butler tourer, with mudguards and rear rack in the local century only 3 years ago! (My new Cinelli carbon "road bike" does it quicker on a dry day:)

[@mikefule]

Yes, it's silly. In the early 80s, I once did 200 miles in 24 hours on a 1970s "5 speed racer" with a mild steel frame and chromed steel rims. People used to ride long distance on penny farthings before the safety bike was invented. In those days, you rode the bike you had along the route you wanted to follow, and it was simple and fun.

[@dugldoo]

Just got in from a ride on the mid 70s 10 kg classic I bought new. It's had great care so looks and rides like new, all original except a smaller inner chain ring. The brakes are sharp, the friction shifting is smooth, the original leather seat is a delight, and it's safe. The Triumph never was a great bike and hadn't been well cared for. No wonder Manon found it so challenging. It would be crazy to do these modifications to a high quality classic.

[@MariBK1]

Love to see GCN going Neo Retro! Would have a loved a little bit more explanation and detail on the brazing of the disc mounts, coldsetting the frame etc. How about testing it against a modern frame with similar components?

[@LeesChannel]

Probably 15 years ago I actually took my custom 1982 Panasonic bike to my LBS and asked them to just get rid of the tension shifters and rim brakes, I was tired of dealing with their issues, just take it down to the frame and build up with modern tech and disk breaks, no matter the cost. They proceeded to tell me that rim breaks are better, make no sense for a road bike, and if I wanted new components I should just buy a new bike. I walked away from my LBS disappointed and upset and continued to live with the same crappy issues (chain derailing, brakes shifting and rubbing, not enough gear range, etc.) for years. As I learned more about bikes however, I realized that they were right in respect to it being better for me to just get a new bike. The things I wanted on the bike were not compatible with a vintage bike, and that wasn't explained to me at the time. I also found out recently that I had bought that vintage bike (which my girlfriend at the time who worked at the shop insisted was an "amazing deal" for days until I finally gave in and bought it) was actually far less valuable than I thought it was. Even new in 1982 it was half what I paid for it.

[@mukunzahoffmann639]

Love the disc conversion but could you have but bartape on, instead of just the old foam grips. That was just a twitch in my eye, but beautiful build and nice to see that sort of content. ♥️👌

[@Herbster71]

Proper retro mod! Gives me ideas for my raleigh record sprint.

[@llandor]

thank god you had someone professional doing the frame modifications, the preview showing the Dremel made me skeptical...

[@thelonesculler]

I saw that and instantly screamed "BODGE"

[@Pionirish]

@@thelonesculler getting your mate to modify it is an automatic bodge isn't it?

[@durianriders]

Would have been way lighter and zippier with rim brakes. 7.5kg

[@edmundscycles1]

Can't see them forks being very safe . Those steel forks have a lot of flex (as intended to dampen the bumps in the road) and will bend with them disc brakes on .

[@nzKnut]

@@edmundscycles1 Are you serious?

[@edmundscycles1]

@@nzKnut I've seen suspension forks get twisted and fail due to incorrect size rotors being used (manitou Mars fitted with 203mm) . Those forks were designed to flex but with the torque force on one side it will cause the fork to twist and eventually fail at the crown . The crown is a lugged and brazed style so will most likely fail there . Ridged disc brake steel forks are much thicker legged and straight blade rather than curved so as to reduce the twisting from a disc brake . So yes I am serious because I've understand the structural requirements a disc brake fork needs for its safe use .

[@taavinen]

Great video and something I’ve considered myself. Nice work Alex 👌🏼

[@jamesscott8677]

Would be nice to know the cost of these changes, including the welding...?

[@cccpkingu]

Less than the trash you can buy from big brands.

[@BlueTrane2028]

Man... ride old bikes to enjoy them as they were, ride new bikes to enjoy them as they are. Just grabbed a 1975 Schwinn Varsity (common in the US). It's a 40+ pound (18+kg) road bike with a 2x5 all friction group and everything is heavy steel. Somehow, I love it.

[@nwbudro9210]

As an owner of a few unimproved retro-bikes, I'd like to have seen some of the details about conversion process especially the difficulties. I think you should do another upgrade but keep it simple (i.e. rim brakes) and what could be done in a normal garage by a non-professional mechanic.

[@johne6081]

There is nothing wrong with rim brakes. You need aluminum rims (assumed), KoolStop pads, and modern low-compression, low-friction cable housings. For an additional 15% leverage, use aero levers.

[@rhobson]

@@johne6081 wrong, there's plenty of carbon wheels for rim brakes available out there.

[@flyinglego34]

I’ve put over 3,400 miles on a Schwinn Continental II, I’ve done a cheaper ‘modernization’ kept with rim brakes but upgraded them, kept the old wheelset, upgraded from 5 speed friction shifting, to indexed 6 speed, some unbranded generic deep section alloy rims 700c and have swapped the handlebars for some Nitto bars, and lastly, converted the one-piece bottom bracket to a 3pc BMX bottom bracket, reused the original chainrings because they are made of timeless hardened cromoly steel! At the end of the build as it is so far, I’ve gotten two KOMs on it and have enjoyed every single mile on it, and it is absolutely worth the investment I’ve put on it.

[@Boopop1024]

Uhoh, the eroica police will be after GCN now!

[@gcntech]

🤣

[@Pionirish]

Clipless pedals. Disqualified before the start line.

[@Wildschwein_Jaeger]

The jury is already assembled.

[@thebrowns5337]

No, they're all out riding putting miles in on bikes older than this presenter and just cracking on with it.

[@robbchastain3036]

I enjoyed this, Alex, a promotional piece for the versatility of steel, if nothing else, and I'm all for that. And those frame mods should be made by true steel workers, and I'm all for that, too. And l certainly understand the love for an old steel frame and the desire to adorn it with modern components. Maybe not discs, however, but that's what's fun about customizing--you do whatever you want.

[@77mikerob]

Maybe Tom could have welded some cable guides on there while he was at it!

[@eragon2262]

I've got a 1970s model Motobecane that I replaced all of the cables, handle grips and put new gator skin tires on. But the brakes are still the originals and absolutely couldn't stop anything quickly. I was thinking about updating the brakes so its good to know that its not impossible. I also like some other comments about just getting newer brakes to go on so I might try that approach first. Thanks for the video!

[@enriquevallano3049]

Hi eragon, I recently restored a gitane 1979 and all you need to look for are nutted brakes and at least 50mm drop. Unless you want to modify the frame to fit not nutted brakes,

[@luukrutten1295]

This was never a racing frame.... so it was always going to handle like a wet noodle under power. Good components or not. If you get a retro bike and you want to really use it. Get the top of the range racing spec steel stuff. At least 531 competition tubing. And also and the later the better. Late 80s and 90s steel is infenitely much better than this will ever be. This is some old clunky randonneur frame. It will never be a racing bred bike...

[@Pionirish]

Exactly this. A frame made from old gas pipe will always feel like a frame made from gas pipe. Do this to a proper lightweight frame and it'll be a world apart. Then again, a proper lightweight frame with decent vintage components wouldn't have felt so bad in the first place!

[@bjtena]

What do you want from an steel frame, flexibilty or hardness? And remember, the weight doesn't mean the end of the world folks.

[@zeetzy7447]

stop it purist

[@b145701s]

Well I've got a 80s road bike with new and updated brakes, wheels and tires etc but the groupset is Shimano exage 300 (2x7). It's not pure race bike but heck if it's fun to drive long distance with.. compared to my race bike it always puts a smile on my face which is the most important bit

[@dcv9460]

Awesome transformation - hope you can do a detailed bike check 👌👍

[@rosson1983]

Is this Trigger’s bike? (One for fans of Only Fools and Horses there)

[@C345OFR]

No, it's Theseus’

[@draggonhedd]

Classic frames with fancy new parts looks great. LOve it.

[@RupertFear]

Retrofitting discs to an old fork may not be a good idea. They wern't designed to be loaded in such a way....

[@BruceChastain]

Very cool. Looking forward to the frame mods

[@matthiaswuest7271]

Couldn't have sandblasted and repainted it before building it up? Missed opportunity imo

[@KcarlMarXs]

Paint is more expensive than the frame itself. The frame is work jack

[@chineseviking]

@@KcarlMarXs he sent it off for custom welding, added all kinds of expensive upgrades too, it doesn't say anywhere he's trying to save money

[@spikev5842]

... and you're thinking the top end components are there to stay??? (😂🤣😅) my money's on - all that expensive stuff is back in the boxes and sitting on the shop shelves by the time the post production guys started syncing the audio 😁😃😆 (and hoping the Big Guy forgets about taking the torch to that frame again ... and gets to avoid the rest of us asking - "What was the point of this ... again?" )

[@samj1185]

Tig welding is a wonderful thing and that would have been my choice. Good job fabbing and getting everything lined up.

[@coreyallert1482]

Would have been good to do some acceleration/braking tests before and after

[@jasonlea-wilson9937]

I love that's this video shows us that you can build what you want I can mess around with bikes, don't need to take it so seriously juste have fun with your build ! Experiment and maybe you will have a hell of a good time !

[@mcclausky]

The previous project where they transform a USPS trek is definitely more interesting. Plus, you're saddle's too low.

[@VladislavDryomov]

Wow! This is your best video, great bike as well ✌️

[@eliotwolfert8488]

im thinking of cutting off my disc brakes and putting on rim brakes

[@janphilmillner2307]

Hack or bodge? Tom turned Alex's bodges into hacks! Brilliant!!! Greetings from sunny Tasmania!

[@tigerv88]

Alex presenting quite a lot of content recently, has Ollie been “dropped”??

[@scottcampbell4429]

No, they are just going to make you pay to see the first tier presenters. 😒

[@edmundscycles1]

@@scottcampbell4429 ollie.....first tier ? Nah he's just a sales person .

[@testdirver]

doing this to my "modern" bike entry level and trust me the performance and ridding joy its huge, sadly a part upgrade every month maybe 2 but this its last time i buy a bike, the best way its to build it

[@charng]

how heavy is this revamped version now?