Can Armada Still Become Top 10 In 2022?

[@Tophbbq]

I am LIVE RIGHT NOW JUST SHOOTING THE SHIT www.twitch.tv/tophbbq www.twitch.tv/tophbbq

[@proph6022]

i think people forget that people arent top players because they are good at the game, they are top players because they know how to learn and improve along with the improvements of others. armada proved time and time again that he could learn and stay on top of a meta game for *years*, i think if you think he couldnt come back and be of similar relative skill to other players as he was you are foolish and massively underrating what he did

[@vegaplus420]

word yeah styles make fights

[@sareaper69]

Aren't top players just* because they're good at the game

[@proph6022]

@@sareaper69 yea, i think thats implied by the rest of it. point is they learn *how* to be the best, and that matters way more than currently being the best imo. idk if armada would be #1 but implying he wouldnt be a top tier player is wild to me

[@exigency2231]

I get you but you mentioned during your comment that the meta game has evolved. it would take a while before Armada caught up - he wouldn’t just saunter back into the top20. I wouldn’t even say top 50. Edit: I think he’s an amazing player and would demolish me even now, and would demolish a lot of people. But he would just have a couple months of readjusting and catching up before he could compete in the same tier as Zain and IBDW and the Box and Mango and all of that

[@proph6022]

@@exigency2231 i think hed 100% be top 50 and nearish if not actually top 20. you gotta think peach players talk all the time about how they still watch armada sets to learn stuff. im not saying hed be the best or even top 10 necessarily. but you are 100% right that theres be a few months of learning before he was there. (but tbf bc hes in sweden i think hed already have put that time in before we ever saw him compete)

[@danielsmith5032]

Can never underestimate the ability of a GOAT contender to ascend to the top ranks. If they were in consideration to be a GOAT in their generation, then if they decide to train and adapt to the meta, they will be in the best of the best. About the only thing that would stop them is motivation. In physical sports it would be physical deterioration.

[@Raginrich311]

When you were talking about going ultra instinct for your car swerve and how you think you’d probably go ultra instinct in a fight vs yourself, I started laughing thinking back five minutes, “everybody has a plan til they get punched in the face”. “Yeah man I’ll just go ultra insti-“ *SMACK*

[@spydar05]

Completely agree with the Armada/M2K discussion; was basically saying the same answers right along with you.

[@jwil5328]

I love Toph man he tackles the questions I care about. I think Armada could absolutely come back and be top 5 in 6 months

[@KingR098]

A big thing of being GOAT caliber, especially for Armada's case, is having unshakeable mental. Sure Puff tilted him a bit but besides that, there's no one even in this Era that comes close to how consistent and solid he has always been - besides Zain lol. That's something that pretty much no amount of uncle punch or insane goom box controllers or 10 hrs of slippi grinding top players can help with.

[@hunky1013]

if armada returned to competing in melee singles, he would be one of the melee players of all time, once again

[@RoRo13890]

And if he competed in a tournament again he would certainly place somewhere in the tournament

[@uprightfoil348]

he was the player of all time

[@christophsorg]

Hard disagree, he wouldn't be one of the players

[@rayless]

Armada was a player. Dare I say one of the players. Perhaps even one of the players of all time.

[@Shrobulon]

he sure would be one of the melee players

[@Base_Bass_Forte]

@8:18 *LMAO* tophs storys are amazing.! x'D with storys like this who needs scary story videos x'D i love you Toph. Great guy. zw z

[@ShotofCyanide1]

I think Toph is a bit off in his conclusion of what separates the good from the greats in terms of game plan. It's not the the greats are better at sticking to the game plan or they have more all encompassing game plans. The Tyson quote is perfect here but it's used incorrectly. The quote illustrates what actually separates the good from the greats, adaptation. When your game plan is ineffective against a character or player you must make a real time adjustment to not lose the game. Likewise if you're opponent adjusts to your play style you must do the same. I suppose you could make the stretch that you are devising a game plan to their game plan, but it's actually adaptation. You could Batman and have a contingency plan for every scenario, until they whip out something you haven't seen before lol. Whether you win or lose in that situation, is dependent on how well you adapt to that which you have not planned for.

[@cameronmele2989]

“You’re playing a high tier at that point and I’m a mid tier” hahaha I get it brotha. I think my threshold is more like 250 pounds but the more that I think about it the more that 220 would be hard

[@itsbmeGaming]

The people posting “no” are the same ones that claim prime Ken would get bopped by 0-2ers and yet rusty Ken is still terrorizing slippi.

[@YukonJon]

Really enjoyed the dichotomy between Armada and M2K you spoke about. Melee is such a sick game

[@adamquenano8563]

If Armada still had his passion and Slippi he’d go back and forth with Plup,Hbox,Zain,Mango,Leffen,Wizzrobe and Ibdw.

[@harpot678]

If Armada didn't retire, he would have retired in 2019 lol

[@Kosmicd12]

rishi almost upset Armada at evo, would've been one of the biggest upsets ever. I'm so curious your reasons for thinking peach beats Marth outside of tippy top. I can believe in some pocket in the mid range where that could be true, where marth starts struggling to kill or something, but in general the gameplan and neutral seem way easier from Marth's side. Even moreso at lower and lower levels where you can get really far with some simple down tilts and f smashes

[@FordFourD-aka-Ford4D]

Well said, Kosmic!

[@Greatermaxim]

Conjecture. Any correct player can be awesome at the right time. Tom Brady is MVP at Football at this time.

[@DctrBread]

marth vs floaties is a funny phenomenon to me, because marths hate it, and because they hate it they avoid practicing it and avoid respecting their opponent. Both players feel like they're fighting an energy vampire. I think marths who choose to learn the matchup, play with precision, and embrace ambiguity become successful. However I could also believe that floaty players are a bit spoiled by a constant supply of meatheads, and could actually make a comeback vs matchup-learned players.

[@elshaddollworld3941]

don't P+ players said that marth is good vs their heavy floaty meta? what's the difference in melee vs puff and peach?

[@TheBeggies95]

@@elshaddollworld3941 Marths are good at combos and edgeguards. You can’t really use your strengths against floaties. Also, marth can’t kill like floaties can kill him. It’s a game a patience and spacing. Neutral is generally easier for Marth, but punish game and edgeguards are easier for peach and puff. There is a reason some people say floaties starts with “5 stocks” against Marth

[@Zerosixious]

Mang0 and Plup both seem like the Mike Tyson phrase about getting hit in the mouth and deviating from plan. They both just seem to bring a level of aggression and smother their opponent. I also think people change their opinion on Marth's matchups based on how good Zain and Kodorin are. It doesn't necessarily match the rest of the Marth players experiences. To be fair this also happens with other characters like Pikachu, Yoshi, and Puff.

[@caponebd7941]

I played Plups fox in tourney once. It felt like I wasn’t even playing the game. I’ve never played anyone with that kind of speed and great decision making on top of it.

[@levonschaftin3676]

why so much zooming in?

[@haniii3]

LOL after reading this comment i can't unsee how much there is

[@ryanwisser2480]

I think that Armada would pretty comfortably make top 10. Top 5 is a more interesting debate imo

[@alanbangura7949]

He'd be top 5 easily. I think the debate would be how consistently would he win tournaments.

[@tiaraguy7705]

Has it been long enough that I can say I enjoyed when Armada was slapping people at every major? I feel like people are much more hungry to get better when there is a very polarizing player in the community.

[@rannynihilius8481]

I think a bit less dominant top player like Zain or Hbox are still more exciting because not 90% of all tournaments go to them and they have a few bracket demons while Armada was like up on everyone but Leffen.

[@themonoloco8245]

The only think i can say for ic's if they un ban wobbling only for the bad matchups like jiggs and peach. But people will always have complaints no matter what so idk.

[@Padthai_Shrimp]

idk there is people in the community that play insane amount of hours and they're still the same rank. There's a lot of natural talent to account for. And thats what alot of the top players have.

[@tropik5724]

Better q would be can Armada become a top 3 player? For sure he could become top 10 with practice ofc.

[@Xenon777channel]

look at all those manga books and the plushie pillow thing on the shelf。。

[@leaffinite2001]

I mean not right away, right? But give him a year and he could probably be a threat

[@sycophant8470]

I think people underrate how hard SWOOPER is trying with Samus, I think she just not make the cut in the current meta. He probably is top 20-30 but that doesn't mean the character is in a good place. I think her matchups against characters like sheik are just too rough to deal with.

[@wynelf1532]

You saying Marth/Peach is peach favoured at lower levels really helped soothe my pain of constantly losing to peaches

[@unkyonwn]

Dude nah. Marth shits on Peach even at low level.

[@stayontrack]

at low level peach in general is kinda busted vs any character

[@DctrBread]

9:00 don't fight pat the flip

[@Benjrun123]

Very good thumbnail

[@heartbreaker2485]

Not to undermind what Armada did but people act like he wasn't touchable and therefor is no contest when comparing him to current number 1. Don't forget the man do take the number 1 spot from Armada was the same guy that zain took the number 1 spot from.

[@Xenon777channel]

Lol this guy was actually once the best beatmania IIDX & Lunatic Rave 2 player in USA ... Lol.. Now he's just hosting these " Melee " videos with a huge passion, like Yoshi versus Princess Peach

[@HoboBob24]

Yo Toph, do you like Initial D?

[@mattmadonna9136]

Theswooper kinda going nuts with Samus. Beat ibdw and sfat

[@frankimaserati1395]

Y’all put some respect on M2k name!! Bro M2k plays with every character ofc he’ll struggle his mind is loaded with every characters information

[@seanathan1]

ya

[@chr0matic556]

i have the same whale plushie in the back!

[@damianjackson4112]

Why did M2K playstyle not age well?

[@ryanwisser2480]

He was much more punish focused than neutral focused, which doesn’t cut it anymore

[@The_SOB_II]

He gambled a lot also. You need a much tighter game these days.

[@E-Brightvoid]

Maybe

[@TheUnicornslayer]

armada the goat. he would be able to come back easily

[@PeeedaPan]

Armada would get absolutely rekt by Zain

[@Xenon777channel]

Is there something wrong with him。

[@tba6]

wobbling should be legal for floaty characters like peach especially, samus, Luigi, ect

[@tba6]

@Ad-000 that's sad to think about but I think having wobbling legal for some characters will make Ice climbers well balanced. Or atleast just legal for peach if anything, because that match up with wobbling legal is already hard enough and completely stumps the character out from competing at a high level if I'm honest.

[@Umbral-Hero]

So much slow zoom in lmao

[@mattwalsh365]

Dude I feel like the commentary on Amy given set is way too competitive. We all know certain matches in esports or sports can be set up for money, and who's who right? That being said the competition between "top commentary" has gotten insufferable imo. Clean it up guys!

[@chuifongtam4703]

Hell no.

[@kingjacko302]

Stop this wobbling backsliding plz. I never want to go back to the dark days of where wobblers terrorized locals communities and killed the hype at majors

[@Boyzby]

The reason it's never "Marth upsetting a Peach" but always the other way around is because Marth is obviously the better character. Plus, there are way more Marths than Peaches.

[@Cork_xx]

[@jmarvins]

plup's samus just took a tournament over sfat's fox in losers and it looked fresh as fuck... just saying

[@Aefax]

m2k would get absolutely fucking washed by the top 30 for at least a year or two if he came back and actually tried but after that i could see a future where he cracks top 15 again

[@Cork_xx]

ALSO 1st

[@GuhbsBeats]

No

[@osrsgold2547]

Nah

[@tdkb3395]

Top contender yes, undisputed #1 in the world is not possible

[@christo_qc_66]

No

[@itsbmeGaming]

“No” Holy shit. Pack it up boys. Case closed.