Can Attack Helicopters Beat Big Russian S-300, S-350 & S-400 SAMs? | DCS

[@CMDRSweeper]

Yes Cap you are very correct, in the civillian space, even when flying those old 70s and 80s aircraft that never got any fancy EFIS navigation screens, you now find them with bolted on iPad's displaying navigational information. Even the il-76 that fly commercial freight out of Kazakhstan comes with several of these iPad's bolted on... That and Russian GPS systems as well as Western GPS navigational units, their cockpit is literally full of bolted on stuff. Giving you the aviation world's impression of a 90s tuned up Nissan Silvia with tons of extra gauges bolted in.

[@descentmvm]

I love your comparison of a sivlia to this 😂😂 standalone and a tablet as your cluster lmfao

[@grimreapers]

lols tuned up planes best planes??

[@CMDRSweeper]

@@descentmvm If you watch Sam Chui's il-76 video, you get to see this crazyness in the cockpit of that aircraft. But yes, you can in theory replace a cluster, but regulations of redundancy and what is authorized to provide critical flight information to the pilot (Altitude, airspeed, vertical speed and artificial horizon) is a bit restrictive, but it is possible :D

[@descentmvm]

@@CMDRSweeper he also got fbos dp and a tune on that il-76?? hahahah jokes aside ill look into it sounds really good

[@descentmvm]

@@CMDRSweeper that il-76 is so cool... i love the navigators cockpit and how they modded it thanks for showing me that haha

[@Mariner311]

Amused at CAP and his iPad - during Desert Shield/Storm, no SH-60B had any form of GPS navigation (we had inertial nav) - so before we left Japan in September of 1990, we stopped at a sporting goods store and bought several Garmin GPS sets - not as accurate as military GPS, but better than Inertial Nav even though they weren't integrated with the aircraft. We ALSO had no FLIR yet - once in the Gulf, a contractor came out and installed an OWL pod to our torpedo rack (port-side), and bolted in a monitor - the cables and joystick were literally zip-tied to the aircraft.

[@grimreapers]

Very cool!

[@subjectc7505]

I remember having an argument on Reddit about the Su-25 that crashed during an exercise and I remember saying something like this. My point was proven!

[@92HazelMocha]

Garmins have come a long way since then, we used them on the ground all the time and they were just as accurate as our other systems, the difference being a Garmin can be strapped to your wrist.

[@zburnham]

"If it works, it's not stupid".

[@roentgen571]

I remember a CNN story during the lead up to Gulf War I that said, on one of the last days before the US closed its embassy, they had their workers travelling all over Baghdad with Garmins, unobtrusively recording coordinates for locations of interest--bridges, power substations, schools and hospitals (for exclusion purposes), etc. I also remember seeing in stories both from the Gulf War and Kosovo there'd be GPS coordinates painted on the walls inside the Coalition/NATO hangers so the pilots could synchronize their civilian-bought GPS units right before a mission. And just curious...can the Apaches carry Sidearm missiles?

[@MTBScotland]

had the airwolf theme in my head watching this

[@simba1113]

best helo ever

[@dnwiebe]

Helicopters stick out like sore thumbs on Doppler radar, because they consist of a very strong retreating signal right next to a very strong advancing signal. Notching is meaningless. It's quite hard to hide a helicopter from a radar site. Even poking a Longbow-style designator up above cover while keeping the rotor blades behind it is touchy, because A) it's difficult, and B) RF energy at typical radar frequencies will diffract enough around most cover to detect the blades anyway, and once the SAM is launched its onboard radar from up in the sky can see those blades very clearly. Helicopters shouldn't go up against radar AA sites without some kind of non-helicopter support.

[@92HazelMocha]

Hilariously the rotor's radar returns aren't modeled in the sim. But yeah irl going up against radar guided sams in a helo is basically a death wish.

[@amizaur3marcinostrowski186]

Dan, how do you think, which SPAA / SAM units in Ukrainian service, I mean ones that could follow the tanks and IFVs and give them AA cover, could detect a hovering Ka-52 helicopter just over a treeline or terrain from 10km ? Could SA-8 Osa detect it (not sure it has Doppler radar, and if it has it's an old analog one) or maybe the radar of Gepard SPAA (at 10km helo would be out of guns range, but at least would be detected)? I guess more modern ones like Tor M1 should have no problem with it ? And what with fighter plane radars ? Do you think analog pulse+doppler radar of Mig-29 could detect hovering helos by blade Doppler signals? As you probably guessed, I wonder how Ukrainians could counter those Ka-52 that fire Vikhr missiles from max range (10km) at Ukrainian vehicles. My best idea is to use something like Giraffe radar (it has the antenna elevated on a boom) at a good spot ~10km kilometers behind frontline, and if it detected a helo, lob at it an AMRAAM/IRIS-T from a datalinked NASAMS/IRIS-T launcher nearby. I hope ground launched AMRAAM can reach a hovering/slow moving helo at ~20km. Unfortunately that would make the precious NASAMS and radar units extremally vulnerable to Russian Lancet drones or even artillery....

[@dnwiebe]

@@amizaur3marcinostrowski186 Doppler radar was analog for a long time before it went digital. I’m not a weapons programmer, but the first thing that comes to mind is a cheap little radar underneath a balloon towed by one of the support vehicles that could just say, “I see an advancing/retreating combination signal in yonder general direction.” When it said that, a SAM with a more modern digital radar would be launched in yonder general direction, programmed to climb to 2-300m AGL, tip over, find a helicopter signal, and go have a chat.

[@freedomfalcon]

Tell that to the AH-64's that took out the EW radar first night of Desert Storm or the KA52's and Hinds operating in Ukraine right now.

[@MrVanderchevy18]

At 7:13 you said you wished all helicopters had that iPad. My best friend is a helicopter pilot and was Oh-58D Kiowa in Iraq. His life revolves around that iPad. In the helicopter and his vehicle. Can confirm. Helicopter pilots 100% do use the ipad.

[@GraydenMacLennan]

39:33 It looks like the firing solution had some of the missiles heading into the ground, resulting in a SAM on SAM friendly fire kill.

[@GraydenMacLennan]

46:21 More friendly fire

[@dampsok]

@@GraydenMacLennan My only kill today! :D

[@rogerpoca9399]

so just very much like real life pantzir..... icredible acurate representation of the average drunk russian gunner

[@shayblair591]

SIMBA SIMBA SIMBA ❤ FOR THE WIN.TRULY THE GREAT PPLS CHAMP 🏆 💪 👍 👏 👌

[@simba1113]

thank you thank you, I do what I can for the team

[@JoeKier7]

Everytime I see the gazelle in a video, I keep looking for the Blue Thunder mod. 😉

[@cadefoster9279]

Great having Kortana with you! missed seeing her on Spud's channel recently.

[@KortanaDCS]

Sadly, schedule changes on my end have made it hard to attend his missions lately.

[@cadefoster9279]

@@KortanaDCS well, i'm glad i found you here your a great pilot! they are lucky to have you.

[@HanSolo__]

@@KortanaDCS Come back Kortana!😭

[@jrizos06]

That's the people's champ! Tail rotors are just dead weight.. Great commentary from Sok as well

[@BoraHorzaGobuchul]

The rotor was in order, is the boom that went to market

[@simba1113]

lol weird things happen in dis sometimes hahah

[@ktwei]

Start up that fortunate son!!

[@MarkoDash]

13:40 and this is why the Longbow variant of the Apache put a sensor pod on the masthead

[@P_Mann]

Might be good to figure out how to use the FFARs in indirect fire mode instead of blindly lobbing them. I don’t know the mechanics of it inside the cockpit, but we used to call Apache rockets in as indirect fire artillery, and I understand it’s mostly a matter of inputting the grid targeting info into the system and flying to the right attitude for the range (rocket pods move a bit on their own to elevate). No idea if it’s covered in the sim, but is worth learning if it is.

[@92HazelMocha]

Just out of curiosity what was the context? In all my time having longbows on station I never saw such a tactic.

[@mariushusejacobsen3221]

Last I used that technique, it was a matter of, as cpg, selecting a target point as acq source and slaving to it.

[@christopherthomsen5809]

@@mariushusejacobsen3221 Would it be possible to fire a Hellfire L at a cursor acquisition point on a suspected but masked target? If the missile needs to know a rough location and range for its INS to know when to turn on its radar seeker and starts looking for a shiny metal box near the targeted point, then firing the missile should require neither LOS for the TADS nor the CPG to be the one taking the shot (ie, not relying on George); it *should* be possible from the pilot seat to simply drop a CAQ on the TSD on the suspected target location, set the AQC source to the CAQ on the WPN screen, and launch the Hellfire L in the general direction of the CAQ from behind cover and see what the missile finds.

[@mariushusejacobsen3221]

@@christopherthomsen5809 In theory yes: Given any target point, and a reliable PP (Present Position, helicopter's own position) you could simply feed it a relative location. In practice no: Apparently the US army/Boeing don't seem to have added such functionality, and thus DCS doesn't have it either. I can think of a few possible reasons; for one, "a rough location" doesn't seem to be enough against a stationary target. Either way, non-observed (non line of sight) fire is pretty much limited to the rockets. And maybe the gun.

[@paVlo711]

speaking of helicopters staying out of SAM ranges, you should do a video on the recent Ka-52 videos coming out of Ukraine where they're firing Vikhirs at 10 km out

[@dirkaminimo4836]

And are now getting shot down. Any ,ink to that vid? I can’t find it unless it’s the one where they nail farming equipment.

[@paVlo711]

clam down buddy

[@choctaw2sticks193]

all right Cortana, great flying. another good mission you all, thanks . . . thinking outside the box 👍

[@Anarchy_420]

46:32 lmao dont forget, get the SAM site to fire on itself!😆👍

[@TheBunt1111]

The HI mode for the L hellfire is all you needed. Lob hellfire’s over the trees without exposing yourself

[@glenproctor1999]

Now, got to do that with a NATO air defence site!

[@AyOuB.God-soldier]

With ka 50/52 hind and mi28

[@glenproctor1999]

@@AyOuB.God-soldier With Mil-8, they can carry more rockets than anything!

[@AyOuB.God-soldier]

@@glenproctor1999 lol yes

[@MaxIsStrange1]

For sure! Especially that now we have the upgraded Patriot, the NASAMS 3, the Iron Dome, and the C-RAM modded.

[@AyOuB.God-soldier]

@@MaxIsStrange1 NATO did not have iron dome???

[@surters]

That pantzir really hit its own missile launcher ... also the earlier the missiles hits its own units :)

[@stuartbennett7614]

A gunner jacked on meths sounds like my entire military career

[@grimreapers]

oof

[@4dshow]

Cortana has such a smooth voice

[@Krhys1]

Back in the UK, when I was learning how to fly helicopters, one of the instructors used to strap an iPad to one of his thighs, with a GPS linked map on it.

[@n1co2017]

i think the AH-1Z would have been the best heli for this. It's pretty small, fast and maneuverable, it also has a very wide selection of weapons another heli that would have been pretty good for this is the AH-6M. I think it might be slower and less heavily armed but on the other hand it's smaller and more maneuverable.

[@MaxIsStrange1]

Unfortunately we don’t have either of those helos in DCS.

[@n1co2017]

i mean you could try and find a good mod for them. tho yeah not very convenient not having it.

[@timallison8560]

the problem here is y'all need a wooden helicopter.

[@dace0326]

R MIN got a hell if a seaing to. "I'm in R MIN" "I'm inside R MIN" "I'm deep inside R MIN" "who's inside R MIN with me?"

[@Stinger522]

Cool for the video but there is no way in hell I would sign off on sending choppers against today's SAM sites. You would be better off conducting SEAD/DEAD with fighters packing standoff missiles or blasting the site with artillery.

[@ryanerickson8138]

I think Cap should watch Binkov’s Battlegrounds two part episode about what the best all around value fighter available today is. Maybe do a live reaction.

[@descentmvm]

I'd watch tf outta that

[@strangeland102]

Makes me wonder how the Comanche or similar stealth concept choppers would fare. I imagine their stealth probably wouldn't mean much at such short range.

[@darrellseike3185]

That a really fun video!

[@trevorrussell487]

Damp's a champ! The speed of the rockets on the radar triggers the threat alert computer.

[@ArchAngel-FJB]

That's why he's the peoples CHAMP!!!💪

[@simba1113]

it tis but a flesh wound.

[@stupidburp]

There is a longer range missile option for Apache - Spike NLOS. Latest variant has a range of up to 50km. Probably 2 per pylon. Perhaps 4 Spike NLOS launched at long range then follow up with 8 Hellfires from short range then mop up with gun while assessing damage.

[@stupidburp]

Apache is actually pretty fast in ideal conditions. Take off the Longbow radar and load light with weapons and it is pretty quick and agile despite brick like aerodynamics.

[@stupidburp]

Draining with rockets was also a good tactic to try. Could potentially mix in some guided rockets such as the laser guided APKWS Hydras.

[@terencyowens9491]

Cue: the flight of the Valkyries...😛

[@Jord2123]

What if a couple jets in support fired off ADM-160s (or anything similar) decoy some planes/bombers then go in with the choppers, low and fast whilst they are distracted on what the sam thinks is more important targets? Also could try pincer left and right of the sam site whilst these decoy missiles work their magic head on ?

[@aaronstreeval3910]

Imagine just having a little bird in the mix with special forces dudes you just arrived at the site without being hit so you just let them dismount and go kill the operators at their stations 👌

[@samedmundson6470]

Humans are indeed quite tasty to nibble upon according to my cat.

[@MrAlubenco]

😮 wow this was truly entertaining 👏 thanks!!!

[@TheHavnmonkey]

Looks like best strategy is a transport helicopter with infantry armed with mortars or ATGMs... Get as close as possible then drop infantry to attack radar arrays from ground. But depends on how much infantry cover these sites have.

[@eastcoastsailingcenter7768]

No gps jammers ???

[@VarkDriver]

"Nails" and "Spiked" are air to air brevity codes. "Mud" is surface to air.

[@ChucknDeuces1]

Nice Vanilla Ice reference

[@saintuk70]

Hello sunny Sunday

[@randalljones4370]

Do you have access to the Mk 32 Zuni rockets ? 2000 1/4 inch tungsten fragments, in an anti personnel pattern. It should chew up the radars. Or maybe hang a couple 40mm grenade launchers... you get about 160 rounds to toss, and about 2000 meters of toss.

[@sfesfawfgasfhga]

Could someone make an anti-AD killer which initially just pretends to be any other common missile, but (perhaps after detecting incoming AD and switching from kinetic mode to drone mode) deploys dozens of *tiny* drones, Black Hornet Nano style. Could lots of nano drones do anything to an AD site? Alternatively, perhaps the helicopters should deploy R/C cars to travel to the launchers. Maybe they could carry either drones, or just blow up fuel tanks -- presumably there are only a few key power sources for these AD systems, like the RADAR bits?

[@SmithandWesson22A]

Next minute...roll out the trebuchets 😂

[@objection_your_honor]

Not realistic but fun experiment.

[@wolfgangamadeus1246]

Relentless and deadly technology is everywhere on the modern battlefield. Without clever humans continually innovating effective tactics, you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of surviving much less winning. For the Ukrainians currently attacking Russian defenses it must be a hellscape of suffering and destruction.

[@TheImmoralNosferatuZodd]

Anyone see the footage of a Russian S-300's missle boomeranging back on itself? It's glorious.

[@kadabrium]

which SAMs can hit aircraft parking or taxing on the ground?

[@grimreapers]

Pantsir for sure.

[@anonymus2995]

SPIKE NLOS WOULD BE USEFULL THERE

[@timadlam]

Could you have saturated the S350s with the FFARS and fired hellfires simultaneously at the radars?

[@vracan]

can trees mask you from sams in DCS or is it like other ground assets that can see thru trees?

[@kenhelmers2603]

Great "science' GR!

[@CaptainSpacedOut]

It's funny how the more modern the systems the more we go back to old tactics. The moodern is cancelling the modern out and classical is the only way to fight. Stealth vs. stealth turns into WVR. modern air defense turns into classic saturation and spoofing.

[@toddw6716]

Perhaps if you had helicopter pilots it would help.

[@dampsok]

I identify as an attack helicopter! :D

[@MichaelTriplett-p8d]

pop-up AH-64D Apache Longbow w/ site support H-58D Kiowa Warrior as support.

[@donaldcampbell9219]

Well there’s one down

[@jasonverhagen5253]

Hello. I would like to know if you guys can do a bomber v bomber dog fight and target challenge WW1- modern? I think that this will be a lot of fun. Another thing is, why is there no A-6 Intruder?

[@darkstalker7633]

What’s that mi28 skin

[@dampsok]

It is a custom job.

[@olegrezkii]

where i can download s400?

[@BoraHorzaGobuchul]

Somehow doubt the sams would be launching on tickets though Also, what's the rcs of a hydra rocket? :)

[@HughMessenger]

Might I suggest nuking it from orbit?

[@ItsMrAssholeToYou]

It's the only way to be sure.

[@beefsuprem0241]

It's the only way to be sure

[@adamalbert9179]

Aw no Huey

[@scarcasmtincap2856]

Love copters

[@elementaleighteight]

Top down the hfire with awax designation or f35

[@bobjellekjr6106]

What a bad setup you give the opponent in a big missile battery without any kind of defense it's unreal

[@kingfish4575]

Vit YAZZ!! sam slay...

[@craig.a.glesner]

OMG. y’all went there. Yikes. I say you’re dated but then so am I since I caught it right away. Ah, the 90s.

[@objection_your_honor]

Let's go...

[@jokiejoker2011]

If there’s a problem will you resolve it?

[@jokiejoker2011]

I’ll await the hook and await the resolution from the disc jockey

[@КостяГрипич-ъ8и]

why don't you use unguided rockets from a pitch-up????

[@КостяГрипич-ъ8и]

never mind Sock did it

[@Evocati-Augusti]

Can you make a Operation Neptune Spear Helicopter? maybe with a 0.005m2 RCS.

[@92HazelMocha]

Really optimistic on that rcs lmfao

[@Evocati-Augusti]

@@92HazelMocha Yeah..

[@rickb3645]

Surely if this was real life scenario... Wouldn't high altitude carpet bombing runs be used to destroy these S-350 missile batteries guys?... Their maximum range is 10km/33,000 ft... Something like the Rockwell B-1 Lancer Bomber or others that are similarly capable... Could bomb from an altitude of 60,000 ft... Well above the maximum range of the S-350 missiles... Or swarm their location with a high number of cheap low flying drones to completely deplete their missile stocks first... Before destroying their launch vehicles with precision strikes... Since the S-350 missile batteries can no longer target incoming enemy missiles or aircraft.

[@dampsok]

These modern SAM systems are more than capable of intercepting SR-71 flights... there are no longer any altitudes that are still within the atmosphere that are beyond coverage.

[@rickb3645]

@@dampsok Ah!... I understand now my friend... All i heard in the video was the S-350 missile system... When it's the S-400 missile system that could reach these high altitude aircraft... Many thanks for clearing that up my friend. 👍

[@waynecoulter6761]

I noticed that a lot of you are trying to honk these things around like fighters... Helos are much more sensitive to control input.

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

If only the AH64 had active camo then the Russian Missile systems would be kapoot.

[@JRMshadow260a]

LOL

[@pj23nl]

having any of the ruzzian units operating at elite skill is laughable at best after a year of Ukraine

[@michagysin3082]

1

[@wecanbuildit2196]

btw, you can throw s-8 up to 10km when pitching at 30 degrees at a speed of 200-250 km / h accurate enough to hit SAM site . And i think Ka-50 would be much effective here if use 30mm correctly

[@Sam-AZP90]

Yup

[@calvinhunt2335]

MVP Simba 🎉 Awesome Battle guys and Gal!

[@simba1113]

I would like to thank my mechanic for this award. he had a hell of a job cut out for him.

[@Kenneth_James]

Simba Wimba!

[@resurgam_b7]

This was fun :D I'm sure real helicopter pilots wish that they could magically spawn within spitting distance of their targets and have their aircraft magically and instantly rearmed upon landing 😂 Any plans for more Carrier Command or Wolfpack videos in the near future? I really enjoy those collaborative style games and you guys are the only crew I've ever seen play them effectively!

[@lenn55]

Thank goodness the Russian SAM systems are nowhere near as good in real life. lol

[@missingdogmusic]

I'd really like to see this scenario return when we finally have a working Longbow FCS on an AH-64E model

[@thegungadfly8930]

Looks like the opening of “Red Dawn”.

[@Krzemieniewski1]

That low level winged hussar style charge was super cool

[@PongoXBongo]

Are there any land-based equivalents of sea-hugging cruise missiles? Maybe something GPS-guided fired from way outside the SAM range?

[@markbreton1620]

This would have been trivial if ED include the OH58. They seem to have the USA stuck in the '80's as far as core game assets and the OH58 would be right at home. I guess they figured letting players pair the the OH58 with its mast mounted sensor/designator and the AH64 would have been too OP.

[@Anarchy_420]

39:23 Now that's how you defeat a SAM site!!😂🤣👍👍

[@bingo5694]

i rode in a helicopter for the first time last week. Freakin' awesome.

[@solomongray6352]

I am starting to think there may be need for an intervention for Sock, he's got a Hind addiction I think.

[@dampsok]

I'm not addicted! I can quit any time I want! :D

[@solomongray6352]

@@dampsok I dont mind an addiction that doesnt hurt you but kills the baddies!

[@Vadatajs666]

maybe just deplee all misles by hinding in bushes when it goes launch...

[@hernerweisenberg7052]

We need Bo-105's and littlebirds for stuff like this too, be so much fun :)

[@DavidWilliams-ig5ec]

What, no S-25 Berkuts that are (probably) being exhumed for use in Ukraine?

[@UhhhhhnooOOo00oO]

Probably because "Cap" flew under her chopper. She at least is skilled. ;) You would never do that in reality. (Cat on desk chasing inanimate mouse aside.) Longbow variant is needed here. [Newer multiple target/fire and forget Hellfires as well.] Shows you helicopters. The most advanced is 1970s technology upgraded to save money. You must save money here, when the "disclosed" budget os 890 billion per year. Tax dollars at work. We all lost. Meh

[@stolek6908]

This tctic should ukraina use, just send chopper know please

[@meltonkentjr1226]

Very good video Grim Reapers AND I got to hear my beautiful young lady KORTANA! You guys get together sometimes at airshow and things, you should post pictures of the Team!

[@bitrage.]

If you guys need an extra Polish comrade I'm soo game....you guys should of turned down the foliage density in graphics settings to have more spaces to get thru!😂

[@ZYXWV75]

From my experience the ai just doesn't care about radar LOS regarding trees even though at least the trees could stop the missiles. What's even more annoying is that they just completly ignore perimeter walls around airfields and such. They are aiming and shooting their guns and cannons right through the walls while i'm flying noe and can't even see them.

[@dirkaminimo4836]

So surprising that a Russia AA system is unbeatable in a Russian game. Russia must love all you guys doing their war game analysis for them, for years. Hahaha. Fascinating