Can BSA Survive? | UK Motorcycle Industry Meltdown | The Bigger Picture

[@economicalrides]

Hi Andy, an interesting video, nicely put together. I suspect the whole "electric mobility" thing will also mix things up in the industry. It is bound to have an effect on the traditional big boys, you would imagine. It could be good for them, it could be bad for them. Perhaps an opportunity for the Chinese brands to really get a foothold in the rest of the world markets ? Glad to see RE announce the new Flying Flea, which will give them a foothold in the "EV urban flyer" market whilst they hopefully continue to bang out enjoyable ICE bikes for as long as they are allowed ! The depreciation of the new BSAs and of course all of the Chinese brands should come as no surprise to anybody. Like the Chinese brands, BSA doesn't yet have the confidence of the consumers for their bikes to sell well on the second hand market. Hopefully that will come but they still have some work to do to convince people that this is a serious attempt to relaunch the brand for decades to come and not just a quick money grab. Also the easy ( if expensive ) finance that most manufacturers these days can offer, makes buying new a lot easier for most people and is bound to have a negative impact on the values in the second hand market for the models of all brands. Very nice Mac Studio by the way. I just recently upgraded from the iMac to the Mac Studio M2 Ultra because the iMac started sounding like a hovercraft when I was trying to edit three 4k / 60 streams in my projects ! The Mac Studio remains barely audible in comparison and seems to have plenty of horsepower left to spare ! Cheers Andy and thanks for another thought provoking video ! Garry & Ruby

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Hi Garry, been a bit hectic here as we are away at present in Morocco and I have toothache. 😢Thanks as ever for the kind words. It's not just BSA and Chinese makes that can suffer from excessive depreciation as I have heard reports of brand new Interceptors going for £4k. I think there is a clearing out going on in the Industry and ultimately the survivors will be those who haven't made rash business decisions. Over on the BSA Goldstar page, Luke Gregory has been giving out reassurances. Interesting new developments from RE with the Flying Flea, Bear and Classic 650. That last has attracted some negativity due to it's weight and lack of ground clearance, but it does look the Business. By comparison, my BSA is almost 40kg lighter, so more agile. Yes the Mac Studio is like a Rolls Royce compared with my previous iMac. I've also investigated in a fast 4Tb SSD which really moves things along. 😊 Regards to you and Ruby from a very warm Morocco 😊

[@speedfinder1]

Buy a motorcycle, kept it properly serviced, ride it for 30 years and you will get proper value. Or change it every couple of years and it will lose you money.

[@specialandroid1603]

I have a 30 year old Triumph 900 from new. Have looked after it and it's still going strong. Costs me very little to keep on the road compared with newer bikes. It's also got a lot less technology which is a blessing.

[@26TM034]

Yes its not rocket science is it...

[@skyhill4279]

Totally agree, bought my BSA Starfire in 71, my Sportster in 77, my Softail in 95, service and repair all my bikes and still have them.

[@marksimpson5218]

Very true, the bike owes you nothing if you keep it long term. I’ve seen some amazing countries, when motorcycle touring that’s where the value is.

[@saltaireorangebicyclechopp8555]

If you buy a bike & find it's a dud and are disappointed in it, then why would you want to keep it 30 years?

[@robbikebob]

I've just bought a new Enfield hunter. I don't own a car, so it has to be my main transport workhorse. So I've gone as simple as possible. And it's great. It makes me grin every time I ride it. Simple, enjoyable motoring! And even if I lost every penny of my purchase, it would only cost me £3500! You'd loose that amount leaving the forecourt after buying the average car! New, mainstream motorcycles costing around £14000 though is getting ridiculous... If I used it to commute I'd be worried about ruining it and if I saved it for Sundays I couldn't justify the expense!

[@economicalrides]

It's like you read my mind ! 🙂

[@mattdog1982]

I have a hunter. Fantastic bike. “But it’s only 20hp, it’s no good in the uk”. To me, the bike handles average speed cameras, pot holed roads and busy traffic quite well thank you. Oh, and it didn’t cost me £14,000

[@economicalrides]

@@mattdog1982 Some of us are seeing the light ! The 350s are just about enough to get the job done and cost very little to buy and run. They are so good that I now can't imagine spending even 10k on a bike, let alone 15k+. You simply don't get THAT MUCH more for the extra you spend and most of what you do get comes with its downsides. Fortunately, for the enlightened, Royal Enfield are still making reliable, attractive and engaging models for sensible money. Long may it continue !

[@mariog4707]

I’ve posted this elsewhere but the main issue with BSA is they are massively discounting their own new bikes to a point where it makes buying a second hand one pointless. Hence dealers don’t want them as their is no margin to work with when you can now get a new one for well under £5k. If you want a BSA they are very good value at the moment ,but just make sure it’s for you as a long term keeper, forget the market value and enjoy it.

[@ianhalliwell8604]

At last someone talking with their brains and not through rose tinted glasses. I never had any problems with my bike and never talked it down, it's BSA that stink, not the bike.

[@jerrysaunders4341]

@@mariog4707 If I remember correctly Goldstar's cost £7,500 when they were released and are now selling for less than £5,500 which is a massive drop in price over a couple of years which tells me that the manufacturers are now just trying to get rid of them quickly. Not a good sign for a new bike.

[@johnludmon510]

@@jerrysaunders4341 I have seen them for £4500 which if I had paid the original £7k price especially if I had a loan on the bike it would have me spitting feathers. The importer has effectively cut the second hand value to nearly nothing and anyone with a £3k loan on the bike it will be nearly impossible to trade in .

[@jerrysaunders4341]

​@@johnludmon510Similar sized machines from well established manufacturers sell between 7 to 8 grand so no one in their right mind is going to spend over £7,000 on a relative unknown. If the Goldstar was introduced at around 5 grand initially it might have gained a bit of a following and as you say, if you had financed one I would imagine you would be pretty pissed off now.

[@ianhalliwell8604]

I did pay £7100 and I'm definitely spitting feathers, what sort of a company treats its punters with such a cavalier attitude.

[@keithhorsfield6290]

You mention that BSA are outselling a lot of other manufacturers. A quick eBay search will find lots of BSA dealers with bikes for sale with one owner and only a few hundred miles, sometimes only double or single figure mileages. It looks to me as if dealers are pre-registering bikes to inflate the sales figures. Some dealers were even offering unregistered 2023 models the last time I looked.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

True, that does happens, but it also happens for other manufacturers too, so it's a level (ish) playing field.

[@kevindarkstar]

7:53 bottom line here is that the government has never liked bikes and never will, they wrap it up in safety rhetoric, but the whole test/licence thing is an expensive mess and seems to me to be a way to strangle motorcycling at the source, after all there are over 1.3 million riders they can't ban it outright but this is the next best thing 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@fuglbird]

The fatality rate in the UK is 26 per 100,000 motorcycles. Many other countries would have banned motorcycles altogether with that in mind! Remember that many motorcyclists in the UK own several bikes which makes the statistics even more scary. Please stay at home and don't visit the continent. We value our safety!

[@kevindarkstar]

@fuglbird and right there is the problem with the whole soft ass modern world, adverse to personal risk, scared of their own shadow 🙄

[@johnduheaume6650]

@@fuglbird I guess that's 26 fatalities per 100000 motorcycle s per year? So owning one motorcycle gives me a 0.026 % chance of being killed riding, each year, at my age now of 77 I'm safer out there riding my Lowrider FXLR than sitting on the sofa watching the box, must get out more.

[@ianhalliwell8604]

The problems with BSA are self inflicted any body who introduces its products at inflated prices only to reduce them by well over 25% a year later has just not got its act together. The dealer i bought mine from in 23 stopped selling them in January 24 and when I spoke to him he informed me that BSA had over estimated its sales and now in 24 had to offload them before winter to get rid of stock.

[@jamesworgan1559]

Ive just downsized to a NX500 and love the simplicity a slight change from the big BMWs I've been riding and the telephone numbers price wise that go with them.Great content keep up the good work.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Thanks for that 👍

[@worthysvodafone4345]

The motorcycle industry, certainly in UK, has a massive problem and that's the average ago of the typical rider these days. I spend 2-3 days a week with a certain motorcycle manufacturer here in UK that has a museum/exhibition/cafe and note that the vast majority of biking visitors are unlikely to see their 50th birthdays again and many not the 60th or 70th either. Younger riders, say under 30 are a fairly rare sight. Whilst the old riders may have the disposable income to provide trade for the dealers they are quitting/dying off at a rate faster than they can be replaced.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Very True

[@Trev350]

@@worthysvodafone4345 absolutely spot on. Walk around any "biker meet" and note that everyone has grey hair, or no hair. And a significant number of these folk have already purchased their "one last bike".

[@LordTarbicus9497]

It’s not just closures my dealership decided to stop selling BSA and a few others have too

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Probably worth another Vlog on why that sort of thing happens. There's a lot of Skulduggery going on behind the scenes.

[@barrybarry6592]

It's not just the motorcycle industry, many job losses poor currency value. It's all catching up

[@GlynOC]

You could be cynical and say that BSA used the UK as a test area to sort out the issues with the bike before releasing it in India and North America, and it was probably very useful for that!

[@pahwasaki9389]

BSA is not yet launched in USA

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Spot on I'd say. Hard business practice.

[@FGRides]

It's very good to see a positive video among all of the doom and gloom that seems to be coming out of the UK. I think it must be the YT software "buddies", etc., that are encouraging people to make these "The Sky is Falling" videos. Thank you for the video, Andy! FG Rides in Pennsylvania, USA

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Cheers for that, now I think you need to get out and vote as apparently Pennsylvania is going to decide the US Election! 😉

[@FGRides]

@@CornishMotorcycleDiaries Yes, I pinched my nose and performed my civic duty. I don't want to disclose my choice for President, but I will say that my profound love and respect for the Constitution of the United States of America was the most significant factor in my decision. Well, really, one of the parties could have nominated a snapping turtle for President and I wouldn't have felt that I had any choice but to vote for the turtle. I could not, under any circumstances, have voted for the candidate chosen by the other party. Aside from all of that junk... I sure do wish the BSA was available in the US! I could sit in the shed and admire that engine for hours on end.

[@barriewilliams4526]

My wife's Honda, which she purchased new in 2019 now has 25,351 miles on the clock with zero issues in that time. My Yamaha, purchased new in 2022 now has 8,263 miles on the clock with zero issues in that time. I'm not saying that these two manufactures bikes do not have problems, but for reliability, Japanese bikes still seem to come out top, and that's why I turned down the offer of a BSA that was offered at a very good price by my local dealer.......

[@peterwait641]

My Honda is on 4th regulator rectifier , have mounted latest it on electronic heat sink and will fit a pc fan next.

[@barriewilliams4526]

@@peterwait641 How old is the Honda, and how many miles?

[@peterwait641]

@@barriewilliams4526 sunday bike 9000 miles lol .

[@marksimpson5218]

In 43 years of riding Japanese bikes, I’ve never had a problem. Honda is the only make I’ve never owned.

[@peterwait641]

@@marksimpson5218 Did 45k on cx500 no trouble !

[@madbadger85]

I’m not surprised with the prices of new bikes, average of 10k, I can’t afford that, I’ll stick with my 3k 600cc bike.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Hi Garry, its not only BSA suffering from accelerated depreciation, ive heard accounts of Royal Enfeld Interceptors going for 4k new. I think the situation with dealers goung bust is a realignment of the market which will survive. You are right about the crossover with eBikes being something which has yet to be resolved. Have tou seen the Royal Enfield flying Flea? Interesting eh?. Yes the Mac Studio is a big advance on my Intel Mac. I've got the Max version, but I've added a fast external SSD which really helps. 😊

[@GrahamNewman-mq7gr]

BSA Is a "One trick pony". Every one who wanted one has bought one. Those who fell for the hype and marketing are paying the price. Lets get real "A ROTAX ENGINE WITH PLASTIC IMITATION PUSH ROD COVER" SAYS IT ALL.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Thanks for the feedback. I don't agree tho' Let's see where this goes. 🤔

[@GrahamNewman-mq7gr]

@CornishMotorcycleDiaries The next thing will be a "Imitation magneto with a advance / retard lever on handlebars". For the ultimate retro look.!!. What people fall for these days.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

​@@GrahamNewman-mq7grI'm sure someone has already thought of that. You can already get retro style horns and rear lights... 😊

[@mojouk8935]

Ive just bought a Triumph 765 RS 2024 in June, as my first A license bike (passed march 2024) I hope A1 moto dont close down its the closet dealership for me! Also dreeding the Road tax 2025/26 which is probably puting people off any kind of motorcycle or car! EV bikes are dangerous on the roads other users wont be able to hear you!

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Hope you keep your dealer, not sure I agree about people not hearing EVs when they don't hear or see bikes with engines anyway!

[@jerrysaunders4341]

I've just watched your video and feel the need to pick you up on a couple of things. Firstly you mentioned that Goldstars are selling better than other bikes that you talked about, there is no comparison to any of the bikes you mentioned and currently the Goldstar is 2 grand cheaper than the MT-07 and the outgoing CB500x. It's 4 grand cheaper than the tiger 660 sport so that's not really a fair comparison is it. Secondly you say that in the UK at least motorcycling is 'purely a leisure activity'. This is untrue, I ride primerily to commute and other than a short break when starting a family I have been doing so since the early 80's and also please don't forget the hundreds of pizza delivery riders and dispatch riders. Currently I ride a Chinese owned Italian built bike which I have had for just over three years now with 10,500 miles on the clock and other than issues with corrosion has been a brilliant little machine and I also ride a Honda CB500X which is great fun to ride and a good commuting bike.

[@ianhalliwell8604]

There selling well because their off loading them at cost price.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Perhaps I should have said 'largely' leisure... 😊

[@hectorshouse7348]

There? You mean They’re Their? You mean They’re BASICS

[@jerrysaunders4341]

​@@hectorshouse7348no need to get a poop on

[@Luppy-v8f]

No British company manufactured a 125 for learners to use . This would get more interest in the UK market .

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Certainly would!

[@brockett]

UK government of all party's have for the past 40 years been discouraging the use of motorcycles. Certainly the Department of Transport is the home of motorcycle haters. Legislation has been directed at reducing motorcycle use in an atttemp to get us all in little four wheel boxes in nice neat lines on the road network. For the environmental advantages of motorcycles you'd think they would be free of road tax but instead thecost of that is always going up. My son had a Pergeot diesel car for over 12 years and it was free of road tax - How was that decided? Biggest impact on motorcycle sales must be the downturn in the economy and the lack of employment for young people. If the only job you can find locally is minimum wage they there is little need and even less cash for a motorcycle.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Well said

[@Recycledhooligan]

I don’t know anything about the bsa.seems like you made some interesting valid points.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Thanks Man.

[@jonathandeeley6276]

I think the problem with BSA in the UK is the Gold Star was introduced to the market at a vastly overpriced cost, billed as an upmarket challenge to the RE Interceptor- it's nearest competitor. Sadly, BSA got it wrong when the initial interest and sales in the Gold Star started to wear off and owners started to experience ongoing issues that weren't being resolved by either the dealer network or the Importers and subsequently Mahindra. The reputation for the unreliability of the product spread and hence why Motorcycle Dealers don't want to buy them at either a realistic part ex price or at all as they would become dead stock they can't shift particularly now that the main season is coming to an end. I like the Gold Star but wouldn't entertain buying one until that reputation improves. I know of three dealers who have packed in the Franchise with BSA because of lack of support and technical back up, withheld (earned) bonuses and unrealistic sales targets imposed on them. I understand that the health check package that BSA have launched for owners of pre 24 model year bikes should cure these issues, this remains to be seen and that current production models have been sorted to meet the expectations of today's buyers. At heavily discounted prices on new ones - £4995, they seem a good buy but if you're shelling out 5 grand it's a lot of money to most people when their are better bikes out there.🤔

[@jerrywines382]

You can also get a brand new Interceptor for £4,699, and one dealer was recently selling one new for £3,995! Is that like-for-like enough for the blinkered anti-BSA brigade? These issues aren't restricted to one brand, whether that's discounts affecting second-hand values, dealers going bust, or new model faults. The BSA has sold well because it's a great modern classic, not solely because of the price cuts. The discounts were necessary to match those of the RE Interceptor a few months ago to keep the price competitive.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Absolutely right!

[@Lee-70ish]

BSA may well survive as it's Mahindra. The Indian market is massive. Only problem they have is engine size . Enfield made the 350 as its bread and butter bike . It out sells their other models by a lot . All bike sales are shrinking but bikes over 500cc are shrinking much fast. The rise of the small bike is returning as it did in the late 60s.

[@BSAroadrocket]

BSA UK found themselves with demand chaffing for access to their one new bike but no dealer network. The rollout was rushed, dealers who could, tacked them onto their offerings but unlike other marques that were already well established BSA were on the fringe of any showroom and minor initial teething problems weren't helped by the immaturity of their dealer network and set up of supply chain. In the UK you also had initial high pricing which followed by a recession has led to discounting. In NZ the delayed release has meant the dealer network while modest (three in the whole country) is more stable as is pricing so we don't hear the gloom and doom here. Its clear the recent Indian release is the big ticket for BSA if they can get a foot in with the fiercely loyal RE brigade and dealer networks to compete with. I hope that goes well and look forward to seeing further BSA badged models like a scrambler (B44/50 or Firebird style perhaps). Hopefully Australia and the Americas get them too. I won't be trading in my BSA (bought in June 24) and have loved the modest 2000km I've put on it. It competes with several other Preunit BSA's for my attention and an early seventies bevel project but is a real favorite with its push button start, doesn't wet sump or drip oil, doesn't have lucas electrics and the brakes actually work.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Really good analysis there!

[@lowennarobins]

Lowenna's Dad here...St Annes Chapel to St Mellion., I recognised the route in the 1st few hundred yards.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Well spotted!

[@hectorshouse7348]

Excellent analysis 👍

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Cheers for that 😁

[@easy4x4]

The BSA GS 650 was probably overpriced and they have adjusted it to a more commercial price. The problem is that they sold about 600 in the UK before dropping it, so there will be some resentment, but that's not an issue as new buyers will be happier getting new or 2nd hand ones. Here in Spain with 8 dealers, I think they've sold fewer than 30, and they've just dropped the new price 😊 . The black is the lowest at 5999 euro OTR. I'm waiting patiently in the wings to snap up a Legacy or Dawn demo or 2nd hand bike.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

That sounds like a good plan 👍

[@elpobrouse2277]

I don't buy a bike which cost more than 10.000 euro. They are not worth the money and I don't like all that tech on those bikes. ABS and LED lights and that's it what I need.

[@Grumpy-Goblin]

BSA being part of the massive Mahindra group is honestly a double edged sword because yes they have massive finances behind them but all giant corporations have no interest beyond the balance sheet and if they don't see a decent return on investment in the UK market they will simply withdraw. The fact that they are having to heavily discount to move numbers is a worrying sign and also affects brand loyalty because, lets face it, if you just bought a bike at £7k and then they knock £1k off the price leaving you with a bike now worth maybe £3 or 4 k then you are very unlikely to return to that brand with your hard earned cash again.

[@peterwait641]

This only effects people who ride it for a few thousand miles and then sell it .

[@Grumpy-Goblin]

@peterwait641 Well no it probably has more noticable effects but whenever you come to sell it it will inevitably be worth less. It will be negligable probably after 10 years I suppose.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Sales in the UK market are not the issue, it's how they fare in India.

[@Grumpy-Goblin]

@@CornishMotorcycleDiaries So you don't think Mahindra would pull the plug on the UK if sales here are poor?

[@pommiegranite464]

I had a bet with a mate that BSA will be out of business within 3 years. Keep convincing yourself.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

If you wanna put your money where your mouth is, have a bet with me😆

[@worthysvodafone4345]

The other observation I'd make is that there is a depressing lack of innovation in bikes these days, naturally aspirated engines driving the rear wheel, Was the same back in the 1960s, all that's changed since then is more electronic rider 'aids' /fuel injection/reliability - net result being that irrespective of brand they all do the same thing with some just looking better than others. The 4 wheel industry used to lag behind bike technology in the 1970s, now its the other way around with most cars being lighter, being powered by turbo/supercharged small capacity engines with impressive interior tech/displays. Why no all-wheel drive on a sports bike - could have an electric motor in the front wheel hub?

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Good points!

[@syjalookman]

BSA Motorcycles is doing very good in INDIA.

[@peteduch2151]

Enough old parts remember the classic bsa with a giant radiator and little power lol

[@richardhebden5603]

Like many older riders, I own a few bikes (3 to be precise) and like to get out and about when it's not raining down here in Cornwall. One of my bikes is a 250cc Mutt which, as you may know, is a largely Chinese made motorcycle with the final assembly in Birmingham. The Mutts share the same 125/250 cc air cooled engines as Sinnis/AJS/Mash/Bluroc and Herald and are essentially Chinese copies of Suzuki GN 125/250s from the 1980s. We heard on a Facebook Mutt Owners forum today that Herald (which are slightly cheaper models aimed at newer riders but sharing many common components) have been taken over by "Big Moto" who are based in Great Yarmouth. The existing range is being heavily discounted and I'm not sure what the long term future holds. This sounds familiar...............(BSA's anyone?) Herald were owned by a British engineering company Enocam Ltd who are based in Cambridgeshire. The one model they (Enocam) are supposed to be continuing with is their 500 Brute which will be re-branded. Whether this change of ownership is something to do with meeting emissions targets or is simply a commercial decision, I am not sure. Worrying times.

[@fuglbird]

I only need a single bike. It's Japanese of course.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Interesting, keep us updated on that one!

[@andyshaw5378]

You know bsa is built in India right

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

You actually watched the video? Right...🤔

[@buxvan]

Actually, it doesn't bother me if the whole of Mahindra goes bust. I've never bought a brand new bike but have had motorcycles since 1979. I've even got a real BSA Royal star that was only 12 years old when I bought it !

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Fabulous 😊

[@Trev350]

So they are selling well? Hmmm. Not so long ago they were over 7000 now they are 4999 or even less. Make of that what you will.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Glad you watched the video that far anyway 😊

[@Trev350]

@CornishMotorcycleDiaries "can BSA survive?"... Well, can they? ? What do you reckon. Anyone who paid over £7000 not very long ago, and now has a bike worth about £2000 , is very unlikely to buy another one, that's for sure. Once everyone for whom the name BSA actually means something has got one, then what? There will be very few people actually interested in buying one. And that's why we are hearing so many stories about dealers around the country refusing to take them in part exchange. To be honest, at £4600 brand new, it might be worth taking a chance., but not if you don't think the brand will survive.

[@funkygrib1]

Never been a fan of posativity ! ! its all doom "n" gloom, the end is nigh, winter is coming. The sooner the bottom drops out of the market for BSA the sooner I will be able to afford 1 of these wonderful machines !

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

I love an optimist 😁

[@ryandenver2453]

I really hope they shut the blade group down, they treat mechanics like shit and underpay them for the trouble. They look at customers as ATMs and rip people off for a service. Harley davidson have the worst customer service I've ever seen and have no clue as to how to treat customers. More and more bikes are going up for sale snd nobody wants to buy them.

[@gordonyoung3668]

My summer ride is my winter ride.

[@EWAScotland]

There is a local BSA dealer, and they have not sold a single one. It’s too expensive measured against the RE or Chinese models. And you are not comparing sales against like for like models, so your comparison is disingenuous to say the least. Finally, I personally have not seen a single BSA on the road.

[@saltaireorangebicyclechopp8555]

I've not seen one either & l live 2 mins from the ex-Shipley dealer! I went to look at them when they arrived, depending on colour they were up to £7300, across the road was an Royal Enfield dealer, they must have sold a lot of Interceptors from BSA's bonkers pricing. I'd buy one for £2.5k tops and hope it'd turn out to be a sleeper like the old Kawasaki W650.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

I think they are good value actually, especially at the current price point.

[@jez6208]

Have you seen the new Royal Enfield classic 650 or the 650 bear scrambler?

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Seen pictures and video, not in the flesh tho'

[@fuglbird]

The problem with some modern Indian motorcycles is that they are designed in England. It has been shown by BMW that Indian designers are better. Many families in mainland Europe have owned cars or motorcycles designed in England. Maybe we fell for it once or twice but not again. Never!

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Hmm, can't agree wholly, but it's an interesting point.

[@simon_knows_stuff]

You really have no idea. Triumph have been powering MOTO 2 for a few years now, zero engine failures. The Daytona 675 is one of the best middleweight sportsbikes around, even now, and very very reliable. Royal Enfield who are owned by an Indian company , designs it larger bikes and tests in the UK. BMW cars actually had a Brit as chief designer for quite a few years.

[@fuglbird]

​@@simon_knows_stuff Let me repeat: "The problem with some modern Indian motorcycles is that they are designed in England." We all know about the poor design of the Royal Enfield Himalayan bolted frame and the vibrations in most of their other models. Royal Enfield would be better off designing their motorcycles in India, like BMW does with their smaller models. Don't get me started on cars designed in the UK. Both brake lines punctured simultaneously from a leaking catalytic converter in my UK designed Ford Mondeo. My mum's Mini broke in half after 6 years of use.

[@simon_knows_stuff]

@@fuglbird I worked in engineering, including research and development. The reason that India is used for a lot of design now is cost , it's that simple. A design engineer in India is on about the equivalent per month as what a UK one is per week. I was working with a really good CAD draughtsman, I asked him about whether it's worth becoming skilled in his field, he replied with "Don't waste your time, it is all heading to India, they are churning out CAD folk like me and engineers like they do Dr's, and the UK people simply cannot compete with the salaries over there, and it can all be done on online. He recommended kids to get a trade, something that cannot be outsourced easily.

[@TimHarty7325]

Not now , Royal Enfield have released the classic 650

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Hmmm, have you seen how much it weighs? It's a porky old thing and has restricted ground clearance. Looks nice tho' 😊

[@TimHarty7325]

@ I have an interceptor and a classic 350 love them both might add the 650 or bear to the garage , test rides will decide as I live in the Alps

[@peterwait641]

Once BSA sort out loom stretching problems they will become more popular.

[@mattdog1982]

The boomer cash is running out. The future may well be sub 500cc bikes.

[@nationnofire]

It’s just a motorbike made in India

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

True and straight to the point 😅

[@richardsimpson3792]

BSA is just a badge, but it's owned by one of the world's largest motorcycle manufacturers (Mahindra) which is utterly unimpacted by the tiny numbers of the UK motorcycle market . So the BSA brand will survive, but whether its owners will continue to bother with 'little Britain' is another matter. Just to put it all into perspective, Mahindra sold over 96,000 motorcycles globally last October. Last year 113,589 motorcycles in total of all makes and types were sold in the UK. The UK is unimportant to the motorcycle industry.

[@barriewilliams4526]

Yes, is as MG, which is (embarrassingly) owned by the Chinese.

[@kevindarkstar]

Wow 😮 way to put us in our place 😜

[@LumpyCarbs]

However Britain is important to foreign manufacturers because we supply the designers and expertise as was the case with the new BSA.

[@kevindarkstar]

@@LumpyCarbs Mmm shame those designers couldn't come up with a better idea than the AliExpress usb box on the left bar or those cheap rifle stickers on the engine 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@LumpyCarbs]

@ says the man posting a review of a Chinese scooter 🤷‍♂️

[@adrianquaife9531]

The bikes now are overrated, overpriced and over sized. If any bike builder copies the old Yamaha dt dual sports they would easily walk away from the rest. Again big costly turds don't sell well and the markets have shifted to smaller bikes under 650 if not 450 it's not just the price it's the weight of the bikes and all the useless electronic crap hammered on all the bikes now that turns people off. Again why buy a retro new bike when you could get say a 1984 gs450 change the handle bars, seat and have a bike that would run circles around the new crap while having a resale value that even as parts you would make a profit?

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

That's one idea. Would it actually work tho?🤔

[@hectorshouse7348]

Will you bag yourself the BSA Scrambler?

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Unlikely, I've got the bike of my dreams!

[@hectorshouse7348]

@ that’s great😀👍

[@dantownsend4246]

I thought turkey was in Asia minor

[@Lee-70ish]

BSA . A Reto marketed bike with the totally wrong engine for retro lovers It's as simple as that.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Oooh contentious, I wouldn't agree with that, but each to their own😊