CAN CARBS COMPETE? 416 LS3 INTAKE TEST (pt2)

FULL DYNO RESULTS. MASSIVE LS3 INTAKE SHOOTOUT-10 INTAKES!!
Can any of the carbureted LS3 intakes compare to the factory LS3 EFI intake? Here in part 2, we compared 9 other carbureted intakes to the stock LS3 EFI intake on a 416 stroker equipped with AFR heads and BTR Stage 4 LS3 cam. Surely one of them can beat the stock manifold!

[@crw3673]

Well Richard, I must give GM credit. They really did their homework, when designing the ls3 intake. For the dollar per value and all around performance, hands down it can't be beat!

[@crw3673]

For racing applications, were you are going to stay north of 5500 rpm, that's were the carburetor intake shine. So ls3 intake for street/strip and carburetors for all out racing.

[@Ugrasrava]

Gotta love that LS3 intake IMO. I don't think I've ever seen a motor that it *didn't* work pretty well on, and that kind of versatility is very attractive.

[@StickShiftMuscle]

Best channel ever. Sorry engine masters..... Id rather watch this!

[@AB-80X]

Wow. That Super Vic LS 4500 intake is a really impressive LS single plane. Imagine the Super Victor, a Dom 1150 and Mast 295 LS3 heads on a 447 with a CM Nitrous LLR cam + 250 shot = FAST!

[@josephnubile1970]

AWSOME VIDEO, ABSOLUTLY LOVED IT. NOT EVERYONE LIKES FUEL INJECTION AND JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS TEST.

[@joewindsor1119]

I have the trick flow single plain carb manifold on my LY6, the loss of torque down low isn’t a problem, I can barely keep the tires from spinning as it is 😂

[@414Chevy]

For what I do, 95% street in a very heavy car, LS3 Manifold for the win. GM Engineers obviously applied all that schooling into their designs. Very informative, Thanks Richard. Keep em coming.

[@joeseda8102]

Shout out to you Richard! I have learned to truly appreciate the work you do to bring us this invaluable information. Thanks to you, I have been building some very stout and powerful engines using the information you have provided. I have done some mixing of different components and combos you have presented with exceptional results at local track. You have saved me a lot, lot, lot of time trying to figure out and guess what works or not. Very much appreciate all your hard work.

[@rongravel4585]

Nice. I got the victor jr. for my build glad it’s a good one. And even better I got it for 50$ it’s the efi version too. And I got LS9 injectors for 20$!!!!! My old boss was cool as hell as you can tell. Lol Im building it to rev out past 7500 so hopefully it likes I think I did a decent job picking all the parts to do it. Should be together and running soon. Thanks for reinforcing my idea here Richard.

[@rotax636nut5]

This is exactly what I wanted to know and a very well presented piece, many thanks for posting

[@stevesolo16]

If I was going to drag race this motor N/A, I'd pick the Super Victor 4500 or the Stock LS3. If I want the best power for my dollar I'd most definitely pick the LS3 and test with a notch taller gear to make the best out of its mid-range punch. It sure looks like Chevy did its homework when they designed the LS! If I wasn't into Big Block Chevies I most definitely would look into the LS...or Hemi(I'm not stupid) to run my car. This has to be one of your top 5 (including part 1) videos! Great job Rich!

[@shorty808100]

The victor Jr is what all the racers ran in the 90’s my shift point was 7500 rpm so ya it would definitely outperform the EFI system that drops off at around 6500 rpm when I went through the trap at the quarter I was at 9200 rpm, and that cam to me is a mild cam, if your gonna drag race you wanna run a Holly carburetor and the new super victor intake

[@ktmr8]

Cool test!... Confirms what I have found with combos I’ve built for customers.... Would have loved to have seen the Holley hi ram with a pair of dominators though....

[@richardholdener1727]

look at the efi intake test results-Hi Ram GOOD

[@kwik440]

Another AWESOME video..THANK YOU RICHARD !!

[@johnlewis8156]

I have a application where I need hood clearance. And i was looking into the duel plane manifolds. Glad to know they will work well for the "street" oriented LS that's going in the car.

[@kennybiggs3944]

I love those carbureted combinations shows you watch you can get away with

[@GIGABACHI]

Man, that factory LS3 intake is awesome. 🤔👌🏻👍🏻 Hard to topple that thing. Those GM engineers sure got worked for their paychecks.

[@ryancivil]

You're a legend Richard! Thank you

[@richardholdener1727]

Happy to help

[@jessenorman9565]

Just started watching your channel recently. Love the content you’re putting out. Maybe you’ve already done this but have you tried the MSD Airforce intake? I had one on a C6 Z06 and that seemed to be the one that everyone swore by. It would be really cool to actually see a comparison between that and a factory LS7 intake.

[@richardholdener1727]

I have tested the MSD vs stock LS7-MSD wins by a lot

[@K1raSaves]

@jesse I was thinking this too. I have the MSD stomach air force sitting here brand new in the box lol. I’ll look for the link to that video and post it. I wanted to see the results as well

[@K1raSaves]

Jesse Norman kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6mwi6iLbdKVeJY

[@miker1681]

Just want to let you know of all the dyno videos out their yours our the BEST thanks

[@sabuno]

Cool comparison. I am curious to see all these intake tests on 5.3l I run the carb performer RPM dual plane on mine but the single plane curve on this 6.0 is very interesting for my usage.

[@rickybobby0314]

Awesome. It’s interesting that it takes the biggest intake manifold and big carb to get close to the ls3 intake

[@beardwrench]

Dual-plane very surprising, very little losses compared to the factory EFI makes me want one if I run a carb

[@Broprotato]

This is channel has to be most generous in terms of relevent informations.

[@davidciesielski8251]

WOW!!!! that is a lot of work!, and great info!!! Thanks

[@richardholdener1727]

thnx, It really was!

[@henrysordia9844]

So i guess the small intake runner port of the Holley single plane into a large LS3 cylinder head still makes power. I was think the difference in the port transition would affect airflow. Probably less of an issue same combo with a turbo... I love your vides Richard thanks brother.

[@richardholdener1727]

the intake port is sized for the rec port head

[@nickmcintosh409]

I'm building a 416 with these heads and a cam with similar duration but more lift . Very informative.

[@sodak3427]

Awesome as always.. I'd love to see a budget 416 build with ported 821 heads or similar and the ls3 or better the Fast 102 intake.

[@f-bodyjon2189]

Would be cool to see this whole test with one of those TBI systems used.

[@dennisrobinson8008]

To get the carb intake midrange and top end up have it ported.

[@lte008]

Id like to see these single planes ran with a 2 inch 4 hole tapered spacer. I think you might see an improvement in torque and power.

[@GRR8_Performance]

You are very knowledgeable! I am building a LS3 416 from TSP, but I cannot find the best cam. I hope to put good NA power down and then add procharger and maybe nitrous before boosted. My tuner is recommending the redhot cam but I am not concerned about street manners (stage 3 or stage 4 type cam is okay). Is there a cam spec you would recommend?

[@thedude2475]

I was hoping to see a cid intake they claim to out power all other cast intakes,great video keep up the good work.

[@shaadydog1]

+1 with the dowel rod mod!

[@djracing5231]

Following from other testing, it would have been good to check AFR or temps at each exhaust primary runner to see how evenly the inlet air charge is distributed

[@randyoehlert9571]

If you run a one inch spacer between the intake and carburetors you would definitely improve the low end power curve. I done this on my engine dyno and you would be surprised how much difference a one inch spacer makes.

[@TheFarCobra]

Randy Oehlert ... I was wondering if that would be the case. We were allowed to run a 1” spacer on the TransAm/GT engines and everyone did (no height concerns really). I am almost surprised they didn’t do that on the single plane stuff. I suppose that is sort of the difference between, say, the Super victor and the Vic Jr.

[@arireid1245]

Randy Oehlert I was told on a dual plane intake the 1 inch spacer with the 4 holes are better for acceleration and low end torque.

[@darrenadams3285]

Honestly… the most impressive manifolds to me are the pair of Dual plane manifolds (for a pickup/heavy car application with mild cam). Factory LS3, and the 4500 super victor. I think the Holley hi ram matches or beats the 4500 super victor. But if you need low profile that factory ls3 is hard to beat if you are efi.

[@rotaryray]

Always wanted to see the GM performance parts LS3 dual plane tested. It looks taller than both the others.

[@richardholdener1727]

I thought we had one but it was a cath port

[@rotaryray]

@@richardholdener1727 actually GM performance parts (now Chevrolet performance parts) never made a cathedral Port version. There is only standard and tall deck LS3 versions. If you Google " 19244037 dual plane" it will come up. Hell, I'll send u mine if you wanna test it. Lmk

[@dazaspc]

A great bunch of tests. Thanks

[@randyj9965]

Would love to see a test of the CID LS3 ans LS7 intakes.

[@johnponzetti1311]

Not sure where it was, butI watched you test carb manifolds. Dual plane and single plane, that motor had a big cam. Then I watched you test cams on another vid. I am interested in what a 6.0L, 750-850 carb, the sloppy cam you used. 228 duration on 112. A cam with 228 ish duration on a 110 or 108 with a carb would be interesting also

[@zeuso.1947]

I was looking for a carburated tunnel ram with duel quads.

[@daviddavids3468]

THE GOOD OLE DUAL CARB TUNNEL RAM , PUT HER THROUGH THE HOOD , GET THAT FRESH RAM AIR , PICK UP 75 HP AND TORQUE? ?

[@scottsigmon926]

Definitely the LS3 intake for street driving in NA form!!! Definitely super victor with the dominator in nitrous or centrifugal supercharged applications.

[@crw3673]

I was going to state the exact same thing. Must give GM credit. They really did their homework, when designing the ls3 car and truck intakes.

[@richardholdener1727]

boost doesn't change anything-effective rpm is still the same

[@scottsigmon926]

Richard Holdener, exactly sir. I agree completely.

[@vikenlink]

Hi Richard.... love the information.... I really like the 416 intake test. Wish you used a more street friendly cam like the BTR stage 2 instead of the stage 4. After all, drivability and idle quality is so important if you like a great driving experience. What’s the cc’s of the heads and compression ratio with the flat top pistons. I imagine there’s at least a 3 cc dish for valve relief. Keep up the great information! Cheers

[@funfun8095]

HANDS Holdener! 👐

[@stephanouellet3673]

If you put a cam for carburator it will help alot too, 106-108 separation angle instead of this small cam 113...

[@richardholdener1727]

no

[@Thumper68]

Loving the carb videos. Still hoping for some first gen videos some day

[@richardholdener1727]

Coming soon!

[@Thumper68]

Richard Holdener awesome can’t wait!

[@bcbloc02]

Surprised nobody makes a cross ram dual quad carb manifold for the LS family.

[@booster1697]

Let’s try something no one has done. Use an ls3 intake and make a custom elbow to mount a carb on the snout. There is a money maker if it works.

[@escuelaviejafarms]

Good idea.

[@ktmr8]

Be interesting but that manifold was not designed as a “wet” intake so doubt it would be that good as a daily

[@richardholdener1727]

I made an adapter to do that

[@escuelaviejafarms]

@@richardholdener1727 the big question is, does it work............ 🤘😁🤘. Must......see.........video.........

[@cptafw]

Carbs are mounted in the center for a reason. Do you think the AF ratio would be too different between the front and rear cylinders?

[@delalbi568]

Hi Richard, Why don't you try a test result for Ls Crank Damper Pulley Underdrive ? they are saying that it will kill Ls Torque at top end, isn't it ? regards.

[@richardholdener1727]

a damper change will not alter torque production

[@RL-RL]

The only thing you should have tried, and I can't believe Brule didn't help with this tip... On any single plane manifold test whether done @ Westec, Powernation, or any of the other popular test videos. Why didn't you run any spacers to help? A 1-2" spacer has been proven to add 10-15 ft.lbs and 15-20 HP up top when using one. This would help with the overall "runner" volume. Great video though!

[@richardholdener1727]

spacers don't change runner volume-only plenum volume and sometimes help and sometimes not-I've tested them a lot-we usually try them on a carb combo just to see

[@RL-RL]

@@richardholdener1727 I'm confused...This is a carb combo test. Plenum volume yes, but it would still allow more volume and add tq and hp on any of the single plane intakes. This engine would have shown great results with a spacer. Go to any track and try to find a single plane race engine without one.

[@howardfry419]

Excellent job !! Have you had the chance to check out the "Aerosol " Design Carburetors by C&S or ADP. I'm curious if there would be much gain between a standard carb and a Aerosol. You could use this same format too.

[@craigchiddo2794]

Run the Edelbrock dual plane with a throttle body injection fast/Holley stealth if the center divider doesn't screw things up I think it will make a crazy flat torque curve

[@richardholdener1727]

same results

[@jst19600]

Could you supply tuning information such as size of jets and ignition timing on the 950hp carb tests?

[@viciousrap700]

That LS3 Intake is just hard to beat! I personally don't see the point in buying any intake over the LS3 as long as you're not going over 7000!

[@G8GTJav]

I'd like to see a stock LS3 vs a professionally ported and smoothed LS3 manifold comparison. Seems like a few guys out there have gotten pretty good gains with this mod.

[@jaydnisevil]

Ripper video mate! Curious how much of those gains relative to the LS3 manifold is from the charge air cooling effect of switching to carb. Possible that they'd be even worse if it weren't for that. Would be interesting to run a LS3 Manifold with a comparable side draught, or better yet those carb manifolds with injector bungs welded in.

[@richardholdener1727]

look at the efi test-same manifolds but less charge cooing

[@mrmysterious6006]

Good video. Use also the fast 102mm so we can see the differences between the stock intake.

[@richardholdener1727]

very little difference between Fast and stock LS3-see the efi intake test (pt 1) video

[@tylertruitt377]

@@richardholdener1727 you think there'd be a bigger difference between the ls3 and fast 102 on a 408 or 416?

[@claymerritt3116]

What, if any, gains do you think gasket match porting the single plane intakes would yield? I matched my GM single plane. While it has super crisp throttle response, I never really drove it. Then went back to fuel injection. Always wondered how it would have ran.

[@richardholdener1727]

port matching helps very little

[@vikenlink]

Hi Richard...That’s a great test.... using the 416 stroker as the test engine. I wish you used a milder street friendly cam like a BRR stage 2 or similar specs cam, something you would use in a daily driver. Who’s at 6000-7000 rpms red line street car with a cam that needs 1100 rpm plus idle speed just to keep running. That would be a miserable driving experience..... unless you have the throttle wide open all the time. Then who cares about idle quality lol.

[@richardholdener1727]

a 416 stroker with a mild stage 2 cam is not a very popualr combo

[@vikenlink]

Richard Holdener hi Richard... what spec cam would you put in a LS 416 ci. I’m willing to send this BTR stage 2 cam back to summit racing and exchange it for a different cam. I have a 3000 rpm stall and love power like yourself... but it has to able to idle at around 700-800 rpm and with good vacuum . Thanks Richard in advance Vic N

[@vikenlink]

Hi Richard... I was just thinking..... all your tests should post idle quality and idle speed with all the cam tests. No just peek HP and Torque. After all most guys are driving the cars on the street. 🥂 cheers

[@utahcountypicazospage5412]

Ls3 is making moves also this channel is getting up there in views almost the top Chevy channel would be a good move to do some test on new c8 being that not many people have represented Chevy like this channel he has a big opportunity if he brings c8 on

[@corietapfer3653]

Was the compression ratio mentioned

[@stephanouellet3673]

Richard do you test , if you can put higher timing on carb set up ? if you run 30 advance on LS3 injection intake, do you test more on carburator ?

[@richardholdener1727]

we adjust til it stops making power

[@Turbo_Todd]

The Mast intake looked like the 4150 model. I have the 4500 dominator flange. I'm guessing it would outshine the Super Victor dominator

[@TheReinoPaasonen]

Richard I higly appreciate your LS tech videos. I am building “classic look” 416 with little bit less cam as you are. I want the old look with low profile single plane and holley throttle body. Would chose holley for best power under 6500?

[@richardholdener1727]

yes if it is lower than Vic Jr.

[@markbuskens6070]

Good testing, very informative!!! Have to admit GM stuffs pretty good👍

[@TheBukesde]

Where can I send my application? DREAM JOB!

[@safetyfirstintexas]

It's all about the runner length and size let's get really long runners that put peak torque in the driving range. 1,500 to 4,000 where most spend their time.

[@EduardoAguirre-pj3cr]

Looks like xarb setups good under 3000? Torque wise?

[@G8GTJav]

Based on the results, would go with the Holley dual plane. Got a little fatter of a torque curve than the Edelbrock dual plane.

[@dondotterer24]

Q-Jet on LS PLEASE

[@stanlucas1932]

Great vid. Now maybe an elbow and throttle body on that Dominator Super Vic and a 98mm turbsky?

[@brentspence3379]

I bet the holley high ram beats it out

[@cowsauce9099]

Is there a intake that is even more optimized for low end power than the dual planes, almost like the TPI? I hate how the motor in the in my old 2014 L1E felt like it was off until 4500 rpm.

[@rotaryray]

Edelbrock Cross ram

[@brentspence3379]

You should have had it tuned. Most of what your describing is the poor factory tune

[@Thumper68]

Hard to understand why an aftermarket company hasn’t made a single plane with a medium length runner to get more mid range power. Or why they don’t copy the stock intake and try to improve it some by changing the lengths shape slightly etc.

[@Cowboy.underwater]

FAST makes an ls3 intake copy with tunable runner lengths. He did an entire video on it.

[@unclesquirrel6951]

Personally I blame squirrels

[@bigdeel7359]

What kind of tuning for dual plane? bigger jets, timing? Thanks, love the channel!

[@richardholdener1727]

smaller jets for dual plane-it has a better signal

[@ashleyweston5420]

Plenty of opportunities to spend loads of money and gain nothing overall! Here in the uk there is a train of thought that for a road car measure the area under the torque curve for the entire rev range and the most useable fastest car has the biggest area not the highest torque peak.

[@dennisrobinson8008]

A good carb tunnel ram would remove the low torque advantage of the efi intake.

[@richardholdener1727]

no...it didn't

[@dennisrobinson8008]

I didn't see you test a tunnel ram vs the ls3 intake. I've seen the tunnel ram tested before and it improves torque across the board due to equivelent AF ratio at each cyllinder due to equal runner lengths.@@richardholdener1727

[@arireid1245]

Damn right carbs can compete and i said this before I watched the video.

[@newdeathscope]

Genuinely curious, why would you carb an LS? My experience with carbs not running well in all weather make me far more likely to put efi on an older engine than carbs on a new one.

[@231mac]

They can to a point. Seen any carb motors making 4000 hp?

[@bluestangGT2001]

Have you ported an ls3 intake to see the results? Seems like the facitry manifold us best What would happen if you modified it?

[@richardholdener1727]

I haven't tested one

[@mattgaul8336]

I have a question probably sounds dumb but could you run a stock lq4 cam with the 416 stroker kit

[@richardholdener1727]

YES

[@trdscfjc]

Richard, what is the displacement crossover point ? That is, the point where the LS3 intake no longer has a advantage over a good single plane? 441? 454? 468?

[@richardholdener1727]

It will always have an advantage at lower engine speeds-I've tested up to 495 inches

[@trdscfjc]

@@richardholdener1727 I've seen issues with running a dual plane with tbi setups, particularly an episode of E.M. and from what I remember they weren't sure what the cause was. On a 416+ how would a TBI setup work with a open 1-2 inch spacer combined with a dual plane? I would think it would eliminate the fuel distribution issues typically seen with TBI+dual plane setups, and provide more bottom end performance. I'm not the expert, so what do you think?

[@neckcrank2663]

Is it possible to utilize the crank-case as a pump to boost a 4 stroke? Imagine if the crank-case in a single piston engine was valved to suck air in, then out, and fed into the intake as the piston down-strokes-twice before it fires? This air would be 2 times the volume of the bore x stroke, right? Then it could also be fed through an inter-cooler like a turbo would. Even at a minimum effect could it increase volume efficiency above the N/A engine?

[@richardholdener1727]

you would have to isolate every side of every cylinder I think

[@purdueguy681]

Richard. What do you recommend carb intake for 6.2L LS3 heads. I have build a very similar cammed LS3 engine from the FI intake test, but plan to run a carb. Say it is 20% street and 80% track. Manual trans 4.30 rear gears. Dual plane or single?

[@Sebastianbartledoo]

How much more power would be expected at 13:1

[@richardholdener1727]

1 point equals 3% increase in power

[@86boostdcapri]

Have you tried carb spacers or velocity stacks on the carb? If so and gains?

[@tojones1967tj]

I have a 416 ls3 with a Holly sniper metal intake with twin turbo.i was wanting to put a carburetor intake and put the elbow forv the throttle body what do you recommend and thus set up is in a foxbody mustang

[@richardholdener1727]

why make that change?

[@tojones1967tj]

@@richardholdener1727 I was just wondering if there's a intake that would work better and the holley sniper sheet metal intake make a lil noise when engine is running push down on the top and it goes away but nothing major and I no you no way way more than I do

[@BEANS-O-MATICtransmissions]

@richardholdner have you done fuel/air distribution tests on the LS3? I'm curious how well each cylinder is getting filled. Thanks for all you do !

[@crw3673]

Ls3 intake is like the sloppy stage 2. It's not the very best intake, but it works great for 85% of the power curve!🤔👌😂

[@deanstevenson6527]

The stock EFi intake yields more hp for a given rpm. In terms of torque per cube of engine, its better than most four valve per cylinder engines. Attribute measurement is not just peaks on a curve though. If EFi 416, it made 627 hp at 6300 rpm, then a rev to 6900 rpm should make 689 hp. None of the carbs yielded an equivalent proportional power gain for 400 rpm of extra revs. The attribute I speak of is Aspirations Index. It should go down if the intake system is a better, more efficent mouse trap. Even though the best carb at 669 hp at 6900 rpm is a 42 hp gain over EFi, its not an efficiency gain. Automotive Technicians around the world understand a Good Deal more about the Quantity Price tradeoff. The other factor is ft-lb pet cube. 1.37 is world class for an engine without variable cam technology.As soon as you divide ft-lb by cube of engine displacement, you measure the Goodness of the Deal. The best 4 valve per cylinder BDA Ford Twin Cams are eclipsed by the stock crate 416.

[@miker1681]

I would love to see exactly same intake test BUT multiport fuel injection with elbow and throttle body's vs the stock intake

[@balance_it_all_out3688]

Please do a test on fitech efi

[@hotrodplumber]

Why are there no fabricated intakes? Would it not have the same effect as a set of headers?

[@199412valve]

Gotta know where you get these awesome shirts!

[@richardholdener1727]

my wide made them

[@199412valve]

@@richardholdener1727 that awesome keep them coming!

[@JadXtreme]

Great comparisons! I'm sending this to my buddy who's looking to change his LS3 carb intake to the LS3 Factory intake. Question though, have you tested ported stock intakes? For example the ported LS3 intake or a ported Trailblazer Super Sport anti?

[@richardholdener1727]

I have not

[@masta51]

Porting only works if both are port matched and it's usually 5 to 6hp usually and if they're not port matched you can get pooling which is a nightmare to try to tune around.

[@masta51]

Ported blowers are where you see the most power because you're opening up volume into the supercharger or turbo. There's all kinds of goofy porting theories and if you want to go down the rabbits hole.. look up BMW dimple porting. Looks like a golf ball because the idea is that air flows around a golf ball that it will work better than smooth surfaces.

[@tomrados7512]

Mast looks awesome. Fuel rails and a carb?

[@HorsepowerHeadquarters454]

This factory intake on the ls3 is CORVETTE technology passed down to pickups so there is no real surprise to me that it performs well but let's talk real world street engine and go off idle to say 3500 rpm and do a comparison from that power band not 3000rpm and up, no point running a dual plane if you ain't giving it a chance to shine where it was meant to work...

[@richardjones990]

Competition Inductions Designs, CID, cast aluminum single plane 4500 intake would be in this engines wheel house. With your 4500, 1050, that engine would sing.

[@MrAlexiasjones]

Try a radius rod or RCR ported ls3 intake.

[@richardholdener1727]

like to

[@Crysmatic]

the uneven pulses in an american V8 kills torque below 3500 rpm. Dual plane intakes keep waves playing nice and you get a lot more torque down low. because dual plane intakes basically feed one bank off half a carb, you need to double the size of the carb! You could step up to a 1250 dominator and it would match or exceed the LS3 manifold everywhere. and 80 lb-ft at cruise rpm is HUGE. that's 20% more torque where you normally drive.

[@coupeboys]

The vic Jr. Was impressive.... but in all honesty the ls3 intake is hard to beat