Can Card Counting Beat a Continuous Shuffle Machine?

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Blackjack Apprenticeship

Blackjack Apprenticeship

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 382
@funandgames2339
@funandgames2339 7 жыл бұрын
Say NO to garbage CSM games.
@Blackjackapprenticeship
@Blackjackapprenticeship 7 жыл бұрын
Exactly.
@johnathangrey3463
@johnathangrey3463 5 жыл бұрын
This is how the casino's cheat. Yes, its cheating. It's not blackjack either. Plus their mandatory minimum ante tip pit metal box that's bullshit too.
@SteelPantera333
@SteelPantera333 5 жыл бұрын
The way they force you to is by making the real shoe tables an extremely high minimum bet like $25-$50 dollars as opposed to their csm tables minimum of $10-$15
@canan4433
@canan4433 4 жыл бұрын
This was great, I have been researching "learning card counting" for a while now, and I think this has helped. Have you ever come across - Tonvelyn Xiylijah Trick - (should be on google have a look )? It is a good exclusive product for learning how to make fast money using this lotto system without the headache. Ive heard some pretty good things about it and my friend Sam at very last got cool success with it.
@stuffnuff6970
@stuffnuff6970 4 жыл бұрын
I mean, counting cards helps, but blackjack still has decent odds without it. It's like 49.5% in your favor. Some of that .5% can be gained by counting cards, but if you are taking gambling that seriously, you might need to evaluate your life decisions. Vegas is for fun, if you're going there expectng to win big, you're quite honestly an idiot.
@vegasdealer777
@vegasdealer777 2 жыл бұрын
I started dealing BJ in about 1972 in Tonopah, NV -- the Mizpah Hotel and Casino. Back then we dealt single deck, hand held. Table limits were 50 cents to $50. If there was any "action" on either of the 2 tables (someone betting $10 or more), the co-owner would come down and stand next to the game. Whenever the count got good, he'd give us a hand signal to shuffle. Sometimes I'd pretend I didn't see his signal, and he'd start freaking out. LOL.
@eane7238
@eane7238 2 жыл бұрын
Funny story lol. Also rare to see a 60+ YO on KZbin!
@andrewleeadkins93
@andrewleeadkins93 4 жыл бұрын
Some casinos (especially cruise ships) put the discarded cards back in the machine after EVERY hand. Then effectively, card counting is literally impossible since it restarts each hand. Each hand is then an independent event
@steelbeard151
@steelbeard151 3 жыл бұрын
If you look at how the machines actually work, however, this isn't true. The article referenced in this video notes that the machines do not physically shuffle all the cards immediately when the dealer puts the discarded cards in. The shuffling is a continuous process and, in order not to slow down the game, there is a buffer of a certain number of cards ready to come out of the machine that are not shuffled with the discards, even if the discards are put in after every hand. This creates a game "state" which is why it is possible to use card counting on a CSM machine. To make counting truly impossible, you'd need computer or video blackjack, which can pretty much instantly reshuffle all the cards before every hand.
@andrewleeadkins93
@andrewleeadkins93 3 жыл бұрын
@@steelbeard151 that may be true, but your count is still impossible because counting depends on starting a brand new shoe. You can still “count” but you won’t ever have a “true” count
@taoliu3949
@taoliu3949 3 жыл бұрын
@@steelbeard151 Yes, but that buffer is so small that it becomes meaningless. We're talking about a buffer of maybe 20 cards for 4-6 decks?
@steelbeard151
@steelbeard151 3 жыл бұрын
@@taoliu3949 I agree. I'm not saying counting would be worthwhile under such circumstances, rather that the video pointed out it was possible, and not "literally impossible" as the OP stated.
@taoliu3949
@taoliu3949 3 жыл бұрын
@@steelbeard151 The whole point of card counting is so you can size your bets depending on how rich the deck is. If you can't penetrate the deck deep enough to size your bets accordingly, then you might as well not count.
@JoeDoe2
@JoeDoe2 4 жыл бұрын
The casinos don't give a rats if every card counter boycotts CSM games. That's exactly what they want. The non-counters will give them the profits that they need.
@chicospaintingco
@chicospaintingco 3 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure they would lose too much money. I know I would find another hobby. Anyone who would play with a csm is dumb as fuck. Might as well play the computer blackjack.
@zippymufo9765
@zippymufo9765 3 жыл бұрын
@@chicospaintingco I think you're inflating the number of counters relative to casual players. Most "counters" don't even make money because they're not good at it, but we'll never get a accurate picture because so many are bullshitting about their wins.
@The713Sonic
@The713Sonic 2 жыл бұрын
@@zippymufo9765 it’s not even that they are not good. The ASM machines are rigged now too. No coincidence how aces are stacked together many times along with high cards. Some people want to throw the ideas that them being rigged is ridiculous. “What if” makes progression in our advancement. My next move is to record a complete session and gather data on the sequence
@zippymufo9765
@zippymufo9765 2 жыл бұрын
@@The713Sonic I have no doubt that the machines are rigged, but I also stand by my point that many people who claim to be counters don't make any money even in a fair setting.
@holydiver73
@holydiver73 2 жыл бұрын
Here in the UK, it’s very rare now to see a lower stakes blackjack table without a CSM. The only time they now deal from a shoe is in the higher stakes table which they usually don’t usually open until late at night, or they have enough high stakes players to fill at least one table, (which is usually on the twelfth of never). I have asked them for a shoe table to be opened and then realised that this may have drawn unwanted attention to myself.
@coenvantilburg9351
@coenvantilburg9351 2 жыл бұрын
What do you see as lower stakes tables? I recent visit hippodrome with 6 deck table without CSM. Good pen. Minimum bet was 25 pounds.
@MrJTtheazn
@MrJTtheazn 5 жыл бұрын
Here in Australia i have yet to go into a casino without a CSM machine there. Not only that, the discard tray limits at two decks, making the true count almost useless. Unless you have a ridiculous running count theres a low chance youre going to be profiting
@MarcoLiftz
@MarcoLiftz Жыл бұрын
Yep
@DonMIFC
@DonMIFC 26 күн бұрын
There are BJ games in Aus which dont use CSM but always in high limit room/area and $100 min
@omaha-chronicles
@omaha-chronicles 9 күн бұрын
Man these old videos are awesome. I know Collin probably felt so awkward filming these but for his first run of videos he actually looks pretty comfortable and relaxed.
@MrVibriocholerae
@MrVibriocholerae 7 жыл бұрын
2$/h?? lmao i better go clean some toilets instead
@francky5865
@francky5865 6 жыл бұрын
Jajajajaja
@BoleDaPole
@BoleDaPole 4 жыл бұрын
McDonald's ain't bad.
@ThePeterDislikeShow
@ThePeterDislikeShow 2 ай бұрын
or you could take a job at the casino where you can back off people who try to make $2/hr counting cards :)
@jacanatv
@jacanatv 6 жыл бұрын
in philippines and macau, they only have csm on blackjacks ...
@BuyBBStonk
@BuyBBStonk 5 жыл бұрын
CSM are everywhere in Canada
@karsonkammerzell6955
@karsonkammerzell6955 Жыл бұрын
Unfortunately, I discovered that CSMs are the ONLY thing every BJ table at my nearest casino has. :( So I'll probably just practice. I've got basic strat down and some light counting can't hurt as long as I reset when the dealer puts the cards back. They seem to do nearly two decks worth of discard before it gets recycled.
@JohnV-gb7dq
@JohnV-gb7dq Жыл бұрын
The problem for people without a large bankroll, i.e., us weekend players, there is no longer any choice. Unless you're playing $100 minimum, the casinos don't offer anything but CSM tables at 6:5. I was able to avoid those things for a couple years, but they grew like something out of a horror movie. The casinos have no incentive to go back to 3:2 tables with a cut card.
@EricBrownJr
@EricBrownJr 7 жыл бұрын
Good to see you guys making vids again!!
@jonathanblatman6149
@jonathanblatman6149 5 жыл бұрын
One thing to point out - when a casino installs CSM’s for the first time, it’s common to find significant penetration though dealer errors.
@leif09123g
@leif09123g 5 жыл бұрын
@@angelozilian7359 I think he means, the dealer is supposed to shuffle after three or four hands, but they forget and don't put the cards in until after like 15 or 20 hands as they aren't used to the CSM machine.
@RakeBackMoneycom
@RakeBackMoneycom 5 жыл бұрын
I never play black jack when I see a Continuous Shuffle Machine at the table
@marcelrodriguez2067
@marcelrodriguez2067 5 жыл бұрын
Im sure the casinos is ok with you not playing it lol
@EJsFnGGalaxy
@EJsFnGGalaxy 5 жыл бұрын
@@marcelrodriguez2067 we really are. lol
@courtlandwilliams2275
@courtlandwilliams2275 3 жыл бұрын
I never play CSM games, Never Ever, for never never.
@ianandersen265
@ianandersen265 3 жыл бұрын
I played 2 hands at a CSM once, and that's only because I saw a bunch of small cards pop out right off the get go. Also, the first 20 cards are not shuffled even after they put the discards back into the shuffler. I have also seen video footage on KZbin on some foreign casinos using significantly higher penetration despite utilizing CSM games.
@MondoLeStraka
@MondoLeStraka 7 жыл бұрын
Hey Colin, BTW, according to Mike Shackleford if you play only basic strategy then a CSM is very slightly better than regular shuffling. He did say it's difficult to mathematically explain.
@MondoLeStraka
@MondoLeStraka 7 жыл бұрын
That's true. Well you know what I mean. Lol.
@ninjakram
@ninjakram 7 жыл бұрын
If you're coming off a slog of bad shoe counts, going to a csm might feel refreshing at times because it's constantly reloaded with all the high value cards and you can go for long winning streaks because it's possible for the high values to just keep coming (the opposite is true too obviously). I think the complicated math on why basic strategy-only is slightly better on a csm might have something to do with that, although I witnessed a dealer at binions on a csm that dealt a round with a ton of faces then didn't put them back in the csm for several rounds when they normally put all the cards back into the csm after every round, very shady.
@MelissaTimea99
@MelissaTimea99 5 жыл бұрын
The GTA Diamond Casino and Resort sent me here
@_Omni
@_Omni 5 жыл бұрын
@African 1st Congolese 2nd what?
@RandoManFPV
@RandoManFPV 4 жыл бұрын
@Sheldon Cooper wrong. In blackjack i've won over 200k in one hand. I've won over 400k in one night. I've one over 1mill on blackjack,horse race,and roulette combined never caught a ban
@Impossible_Fishy
@Impossible_Fishy 4 жыл бұрын
@@RandoManFPV cuz it’s not cheating, also rockstar doesn’t give a shit about skill as long as you arnt glitching or modding
@toms.4382
@toms.4382 3 жыл бұрын
@@Impossible_Fishy about skill? Theres no skill in gta casino, besides maybe basic strategy, their casinos is the biggest scam i’ve ever seen.
@Impossible_Fishy
@Impossible_Fishy 3 жыл бұрын
@@toms.4382 I know that, I just said that cuz he brought it up
@emmanuelvacakis4463
@emmanuelvacakis4463 Жыл бұрын
Some casinos put the cards back into the CSM immediately after every hand.
@buddyjeans1g554
@buddyjeans1g554 6 жыл бұрын
I am interested in learning something new. .. I thank you for giving me my first tool to use... Please do not play at a CONTINUOUS CARD SHUFFLE MACHINE TABLE. remember why do you want to send the wrong message... The casinos want to take your money. Thank you . .. .
@WeiXing25
@WeiXing25 7 жыл бұрын
I wonder how truly random those CSMs actually are. Perhaps there could be a pattern that can be detected which might allow you to predict the cards. If that is the case, maybe it is even more profitable than card counting.
@wonderfullife737
@wonderfullife737 7 жыл бұрын
Joao Simoes wei xing, Yes buy a shuffling machine yourself and see how it shuffles, if you see any patterns
@suomynona4051
@suomynona4051 2 жыл бұрын
Even if it was true, I doubt it would be more profitable, but it could still allow some profit.
@ThePeterDislikeShow
@ThePeterDislikeShow 2 ай бұрын
You'll probably need to have a really good memory though! You'll be remembering sequences of cards rather than just a count.
@ChairmanMo
@ChairmanMo 8 күн бұрын
@@wonderfullife737 I don't think you can actually buy these machines on your own. Also those things are expensive.
@sanfranciscobay
@sanfranciscobay 2 жыл бұрын
1:25 $2/hour using a CSM versus $150/hour using a 6 Deck Shoe using a $5-500 bet spread.
@lesterlim7693
@lesterlim7693 5 жыл бұрын
In Asia it seems like all casinos in Macau and Genting Highlands use CSMs. Is card counting dead here :(?
@junweiwong4873
@junweiwong4873 4 жыл бұрын
Totally death
@Chenvious
@Chenvious 4 жыл бұрын
CSM games are the only available tables where i'm from
@JarvanVI6618
@JarvanVI6618 5 жыл бұрын
99% of the casino in Macau use CSM. However, the rules are like this: 6 decks, S17, DAS, Early Surrender, No Peek. I checked on some Basic Strategy Engine and said the Estimated casino edge for these rules: -0.08 %. Negative Casion edge?!! is it really possible? For more information, these tables also offer Pairs and Under/Over 13 side bet.
@axlkwan1894
@axlkwan1894 5 жыл бұрын
leaderofasla I would say 100%,not even a casino I saw in Macau wasn't replaced with the CSM
@RomanDays04
@RomanDays04 2 жыл бұрын
I have a problem Collin, in my city the only casino that offer to play no electronic blackjack has the shuffler machine, so I can count cards in a casino with normal shoe.
@101101xott
@101101xott Жыл бұрын
So, in macau. All black jack tables using 126 shuffle machines. Does that means no point to play?
@donaldduck7642
@donaldduck7642 3 жыл бұрын
This right here is my problem with professional blackjack, in 10-20 years, I highly doubt that there are going to be any regular cards/decks of cards left, it's all just gonna be auto shuffle machines
@YouLoveMrFriendly
@YouLoveMrFriendly 3 жыл бұрын
The casino mangers are watching these types of videos and wising up.
@Snubrevolver
@Snubrevolver 3 жыл бұрын
Well it seems that from some of the comments the pretty much all of Europe and Australia is already there, so you're probably right
@deleqtronica8733
@deleqtronica8733 2 жыл бұрын
All the new casinos in Canada are CSM, you have to go to Casinos further out to get more liberal blackjack rules with a shoe instead of CSM.
@Romes66
@Romes66 7 жыл бұрын
Another more technical reason why you can't beat a CSM... The fact that your advantage counts will be so infrequent will require a massive bet (such as your change from $5 to $500) when you do actually get an advantageous count. I'd love to see a followup video with Colin explaining how large of a bankroll you'd need to have
@Blackjackapprenticeship
@Blackjackapprenticeship 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks man! Yeah, I imagine you'd need quite the bankroll. I'll see if I can run a sim on it. But regardless, like you said, playing a CSM is just a bad idea!
@va960
@va960 5 жыл бұрын
0:30 Courtesy of Vegas Aces
@eazye088
@eazye088 6 жыл бұрын
I've trying to find answers to this question. The reshuffle tower machine or what ever it's called, Not CSM. I'm talking about the machine that the dealer puts their discarded deck in and then a new fresh deck comes up and is already ready. I've heard that the auto re-shuffler has been programed to set the deck in a certain pattern to keep the deck count as neutral as possible. Non of my local casinos hand shuffle unless that machine goes down. Could you shed some answers on that please?
@zak2189
@zak2189 6 жыл бұрын
just got home from some blackjack. memorised basic strategy just before i left. i’m in australia with 1 casino in my city and 1 an hour drive, most casinos in australia use CSMs. went with the intent to just practice basic strategy (im a gambler) but the first 2 dealers dealt quite slow. first dealer dealt at least 4 or 5 rounds and let the discard get to around 35 or 40 cards. second dealer was putting the discards in the machine after every round so no point counting but i did for practice. i asked him and he said they are not supposed to let the discard get over 40 cards high. he said if he was dealing to only 1 player he would go a few rounds. 3rd dealer was really fast so couldn’t keep up but he “shuffled” after every second round anyway. he also said he would go more rounds if it was 1 player. everyone left at the next dealer change so i asked her how many rounds would she deal before shuffling, she reckoned she would go at least a deck. so i kept going but liar bitch dealt 3 at the most. luckily i won on a double and left up. oh and the 2nd dealer said some funny bullshit, he reckoned the reason they don’t let the discard sleep stack up is so that people don’t steal the cards! HAAA!!! i’m not dumb buddy. also i was sitting out a lot of rounds and only jumping in when i felt like it, like if the dealer got 21 twice in a row. only once with the first dealer when i could actually count did i jump in because of the count. it was at 6 running at the end of the round. didn’t ask how many decks though so i assumed 6 = true 1 however i’m not sure what the standard number of decks is for CMSs.
@0Clewi0
@0Clewi0 6 жыл бұрын
I'm thinking on learning but I'm in a similar situation only with the second casino being a bit farther.
@AnassRdam
@AnassRdam Жыл бұрын
But how about Basic Strategy? Are the mathematics still the same with an automatic shuffler?
@valmoston
@valmoston 2 жыл бұрын
Does anyone know where in France I can find regular shoe game ? I came to Casino Monte Carlo in Monaco and to my surprise found out that they use CSM there. They don't put cards in the tray at all, but right away back to CSM !!!
@Madbloke95
@Madbloke95 7 жыл бұрын
Hey i've been learning how to count cards for 6 months and i can count a whole deck in 31 seconds but the only problem over here in the UK is that every casino has CSM's and they deal one hand out and return the cards back into the machine. Any tips? i'd of hated to waste all this time learning for nothing but i think i have. Thanks
@faith_alone
@faith_alone 6 жыл бұрын
That's incorrect. Do your homework
@kalashnikov5544
@kalashnikov5544 5 жыл бұрын
Move to the US lmao.
@andrewprudente4294
@andrewprudente4294 2 жыл бұрын
Never play if they are using a CSM machine and tell them so. That way they will know how many gamblers will not play.,
@jdjed24
@jdjed24 4 жыл бұрын
unfortunately here in NSW, Australia, the Casino only has CSM games for blackjack.
@kylesherlock3859
@kylesherlock3859 3 жыл бұрын
The casino in my area only has CSMs but when the machine broke man, did the advantage players clean up
@boonyewlee1065
@boonyewlee1065 6 жыл бұрын
What to do In genting highland All blackjack table are csm
@Blackjackapprenticeship
@Blackjackapprenticeship 6 жыл бұрын
Don't play! Sorry, but if it's all CSM's, you can't beat that game.
@Savagemister
@Savagemister 2 жыл бұрын
Do you see a point in the near future where every casino uses the CSMs? In another video, I think I remember you saying that the machines were really expensive. I'm wondering how expensive. Because casinos can build hotels like nothing. How can these things be too expensive for casinos?
@andrewprudente4294
@andrewprudente4294 2 жыл бұрын
They can get financing to buy them. Those machines allow them to pre-set the cards so they will win more often
@pheonixcollector6502
@pheonixcollector6502 Ай бұрын
is there a site where can find out where best Bj games offered. Some Cities only offer CSM
@mynienow6115
@mynienow6115 3 жыл бұрын
Useful information
@mynienow6115
@mynienow6115 3 жыл бұрын
Try to play casino at Vice, guys
@andrewmathews3911
@andrewmathews3911 8 ай бұрын
I've always used the reverse Fibonacci sequence with my batting and the CSM machine. The first time it got pulled out on me was terrible. I was up 800 on $200 buying and it knocked me down to 400 before I left
@69kerrigan
@69kerrigan 5 жыл бұрын
Hey I m french and in France ALL the casinos use CSM. What about US ? and others countries ?
@iceman55
@iceman55 5 жыл бұрын
Not all of them. Some still offer regular deck blackjack
@69kerrigan
@69kerrigan 5 жыл бұрын
​@@iceman55 tous ceux du sud est ont des CSM en tout cas. Si t en as en tête je veux bien que tu me dises
@iceman55
@iceman55 5 жыл бұрын
@@69kerrigan je pensais surtout au casino d'Annecy où j'étais au mois d'août de cette année. Ils avaient une table sans csm mise mini 5€
@69kerrigan
@69kerrigan 5 жыл бұрын
@@iceman55 ah interessant, je note ^^ si t en trouves d autres hésite pas à le dire. J ai essayé de chercher sur internet, mais l info est introuvable, seule solution aller physiquement dans les casino pour confirmer de visu si ils ont des csm ou pas, et pour l instant tout ceux que j ai vu en ont équipé toutes leurs tables.
@iceman55
@iceman55 5 жыл бұрын
@@69kerrigan ça marche. De mémoire j'avais joué à Deauville et à St Malo il y a quelques années et il n'y avait pas de machine csm non plus. Mise mini 5€ à St Malo mise mini 10€ à Deauville. Mais c'était il y a 4-5 ans. Est ce encore vrai maintenant ?
@MikeFromDC
@MikeFromDC 5 жыл бұрын
Guess what..I looked this up after I lost money just now. Was like wtf is that I feel like I'm losing too much and here you have it.
@TuringMachine001
@TuringMachine001 2 жыл бұрын
Blackjack has tons of variance. Unless you've been playing for years, your results were probably due to lack of luck. CSMs had nothing to do with it.
@blackjackmaster1432
@blackjackmaster1432 7 ай бұрын
As many will point out. There is a lot of variance, aka it can change a lot from one game to the next. a good rule i find is that you should be up after 240 games or so and over all not too far off 50%. if you are you need to figure out what you are doing wrong or figure out if the rules you are playing under are bad. not every blackjack game can be beaten by counting...
@misticollom2159
@misticollom2159 3 жыл бұрын
And they wonder why the younger generation are increasingly less interested in gambling, and instead choose to spend their money on dining, exploring and shows. They take all the possibilities out of it, and eventually people just lose interest. I know there will always be the addicts that they feed on, but it has lost its luster. The casinos can't handle that a game may actually be "almost" fair for the customer. I have a trip to Vegas planned soon, and what I initially planned on spending at the tables will stay in my wallet. Hard pass.
@christelleybanez4252
@christelleybanez4252 6 жыл бұрын
im just wondering at my casino i noticed its all CSM only. is it normal that CSM games where i play dont have dealer 2nd card face down on the table. they get the dealers 2nd card after everybody else played there hands
@Blackjackapprenticeship
@Blackjackapprenticeship 6 жыл бұрын
Yeah, that's common in countries outside of the US.
@taoliu3949
@taoliu3949 4 жыл бұрын
Thats actually better than having the dealer draw both cards at the start. MGM in DC has dealers draw 2nd card face down, but if the dealer hits 20 with that initial duo, then the dealer automatically wins.
@rodrigopuerto839
@rodrigopuerto839 5 жыл бұрын
In my city, the CSM is widely used in the European blackjack and before anyone plays, they “burn” the first 5 cards upside down soooo yeah I am pretty fucked up.
@jeremywertz7278
@jeremywertz7278 2 жыл бұрын
I played blackjack 5 nights probably 12 hours in total on my last cruise. Total profit for the trip was $50. Every table had a CSM and the dealers reloaded after each hand. I just ended up playing basic strategy and not trying to count.
@DELOR34N
@DELOR34N Жыл бұрын
Did you profit
@Gabedusek
@Gabedusek Жыл бұрын
@@DELOR34Nhe literally said he profited $50
@DELOR34N
@DELOR34N Жыл бұрын
@@Gabedusek maybe just in the moment, but for the long run I doubt it
@rssven1827
@rssven1827 5 жыл бұрын
One of the most important questions that I have is - do card counters follow basic strategy? For example if a counter knows that there are a lot of hi cards and he has a 16 against a 10 would he still hit? Or if he had an 8/8 against a dealers hand would he split under the same conditions?
@medexamtoolscom
@medexamtoolscom 5 жыл бұрын
No, no I don't follow basic strategy. I follow what I call "advanced strategy", and what this guy calls "deviations", i.e. deviations to basic strategy. You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT about 16 against 10. That one is actually not just a common one, it is a very borderline decision, the decision threshold is a count of .08, meaning if the count is ANYTHING positive unless it's a shoe of more than 10, you STAND on 16 against 10. With one caveat..... you have to subtract 2 from the count if it's made from a 10 and a 6, or if you're using 2-7 vs 9-A as your counting vector (which is better), also if it's made from a 9 and a 7, because from a 16's perspective, a 6 and a 7 are bust cards even though they're counted as low cards thus for its use in that hand, it's off by 2, or rather, something slightly less than 2, since it's really partially accounting for that already since the entire set of 2-6 or 2-7 is being counted together already, in other words you're not off by 2, but more like 1.7. So you stand on 16 against 10 if the count, not the truecount, is 2 or more in a 2-deck game or 3 or more in a 6-deck game then, if it's composed of a 6 and a 10 or a 7 and a 9 depending on your counting vector. Another super-borderline one is doubling on 11 against ace. The decision threshold of that one is -.04, meaning you don't do it if the count is negative at all, unless you're playing a 25+ deck shoe. Splitting 8's against a dealer's ace is another borderline situation though not nearly as close, but oddly enough, not against any other dealer's card. If the true count falls under -1.7, then you would hit on 8-8 against a dealer's ace instead of splitting them. I once got a pair of 8's against a dealer's 10, but the count was -12 and I wasn't even sure if at that level I should split them because I only calculated these thresholds when they fell from -10 to +10, but not splitting also has the advantage of having a lower standard deviation of outcome, so I just hit... the next 2 cards were a 3 and a 10 and the dealer had two 10's so I would have won ONE of the hands (but at that count I wouldn't have doubled on the 11, that threshold I know is -5, meaning if the truecount is -5 or below, you don't double on 11 against 10) instead of losing the one hand, and of course I would have probably lost the other hand since ultimately the dealer did have 20, so I would have saved myself 5 dollars, possibly 15. Well I would have saved myself 2000 dollars if I hadn't gone to the casino at ALL that day because I would have closed out my position in the stupid S&P 500 if I had stayed home and of course it did the worst thing possible for me.
@kenbagwell8551
@kenbagwell8551 4 жыл бұрын
Card counters follow basic strategy completely. Then deviate from the basic strategy depending upon the running count or true count. And in your example, no they would not hit. One of the first deviations everyone learns is to stand on a hard 16 against any 10 if the RC > 0.
@owenthomas9863
@owenthomas9863 4 жыл бұрын
How soon can the same card comeout in a csm? Like if you put a card into thw machine how soon could it be dealt out? There must be a buffer?
@rssven1827
@rssven1827 5 жыл бұрын
I've played against a csm a few times, but only a couple of days I actually won something.
@troyc333
@troyc333 3 жыл бұрын
The casino's already have a great enough advantage over players which keeps them filthy rich. They do not need anymore of an advantage so I refuse to ever risk money where CSM are in use.
@taoliu3949
@taoliu3949 3 жыл бұрын
Most people don't count cards. The CSM offers no advantage to casinos against non-card counters
@lizhemehema6755
@lizhemehema6755 4 ай бұрын
So because it's so random could we not just use martingale strategy?
@Blackjackapprenticeship
@Blackjackapprenticeship 4 ай бұрын
no - we discuss that in multiple videos like this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZmnaIajms-hZ8U
@douglasdelmondes6397
@douglasdelmondes6397 7 жыл бұрын
Hi there I like in the uk , and the dealer only dealts him a second card after all players are finished their hands , does that makes any difference for card counting !??
@Blackjackapprenticeship
@Blackjackapprenticeship 7 жыл бұрын
You need to learn the UK No Hole card strategy. You can find the UK basic strategy on Wizard of Odds. And we have the deviation charts for our Members on BlackjackApprenticeship.com .
@qhansen123
@qhansen123 5 жыл бұрын
I know of a team that reverse engineered a csm and found that by listening to the csm shuffle they can sometimes gain information about the deck. However he wouldn't tell me how it works. Does anyone know anything about this? They've made a lot of money with this information as far as I know, but this was a long time ago.
@cava-ft2vi
@cava-ft2vi 5 жыл бұрын
See csm card counting on kindle store.. In Asia they start counting on csm..
@sebastien2212
@sebastien2212 2 жыл бұрын
@@cava-ft2viHi, do you have a lini for an Ebook to learn how to beat the CSM ?
@cava-ft2vi
@cava-ft2vi 2 жыл бұрын
Not sure if you are talking about the taiwanese team ,met them twice
@sebastien2212
@sebastien2212 2 жыл бұрын
@@cava-ft2vi not necessary a Team but a web site or ebook of "'how to count with CSM"?
@zak2189
@zak2189 6 жыл бұрын
unfortunately most casinos in australia use CSMs. there also aren’t very many casinos. i’m a gambler anyway so I will try my luck but only really go off the count if there is a dealer who lets the discards pile up. some dealers clear the discards every 1-2 rounds making counting impossible. but what if we sit out rounds when the count is low or negative and only bet 1 set amount when the count is good? if i use a large bet spread i’m definitely getting backed off. so little casinos here, they’re all big and fancy and would catch on quick
@Blackjackapprenticeship
@Blackjackapprenticeship 6 жыл бұрын
Bummer about the CSM's. If people stopped playing them, casinos would get rid of them.
@deleqtronica8733
@deleqtronica8733 2 жыл бұрын
@@Blackjackapprenticeship if there’s only CSMs in a casino, it’s really going to hard to stop casual/gamblers from playing.
@johnathangrey3463
@johnathangrey3463 5 жыл бұрын
O I cant wait to hear this one.
@GetSome29347
@GetSome29347 4 жыл бұрын
Well after you heard it i bet you feel dumb for assuming he was gonna advocate CSM's because they are beatable. He actually just proved you could but that it sucks, which basically validates what you thought about it beforehand, however now u look like a dick for making your comment before watching. Basically what I'm saying is that you are a fuckin idiot
@newtuber64
@newtuber64 5 жыл бұрын
I would have a better idea for anyone who want to play the CSMs. A lot of places have online blackjack. If they want to play the CSMs they are better off playing the online blackjack games rather than going to a casino.
@DennisCyrilJosephs
@DennisCyrilJosephs 5 ай бұрын
CSM 6 machines are easier to Minipulated withholding certain cards, dealing certain cards especially when you double down or split.
@jaygusman
@jaygusman 3 жыл бұрын
My casino has only CSM machines :(
@pyrowausje9291
@pyrowausje9291 Жыл бұрын
In the Netherlands you have only a CSM ...
@eyeborg3148
@eyeborg3148 4 жыл бұрын
why don't casinos use all CSM games then?
@Jbluez1
@Jbluez1 3 жыл бұрын
Because no one will ever play.
@khayalmepani8852
@khayalmepani8852 3 жыл бұрын
Here in Western Australia, at the only casino we have every single blackjack table has a CSM. Unfortunately
@bobybull
@bobybull 2 жыл бұрын
What is the best Chart I should be using against a CSM in blackjack? Link pls Thx
@DJ.LakeSea
@DJ.LakeSea Жыл бұрын
I live in one of the most isolated cities in the world which only has one casino. They use a CSM. Card counting is out of the question for me and most others who live here and aren't prepared to fly to a place that has multiple casinos and choices of avoiding CSM's. The casino where I live has the upper hand, lol. I got more chance of winning playing roulette, lol.
@peacelover7851
@peacelover7851 3 ай бұрын
The biggest edge a gambler can have is... walking away while your up.
@Blackjackapprenticeship
@Blackjackapprenticeship 3 ай бұрын
That trope is a fallacy unless you're never playing again
@bowenfulwood-griffiths2482
@bowenfulwood-griffiths2482 2 жыл бұрын
Omg STAR CASINO here in Australia have a continuos machine with 7-8 decks always placed insdie after every play
@00J-Tone
@00J-Tone 6 жыл бұрын
damn i just wanna learn how to double or triple my measly 100 bucks when i go to play.. id do it 2 or 3 times a week so the casino doesnt hate me and make a solid side income.
@TheAssassin342
@TheAssassin342 6 жыл бұрын
It’s lit when you do learn. Fuck csm’s
@henryla5722
@henryla5722 5 жыл бұрын
Started 2500$ now at 6350$.... So thank you. In 2 days grind. #Wonging #1-8betspread
@Halftimeintelpromo
@Halftimeintelpromo 3 жыл бұрын
@@henryla5722 AND!!
@deleqtronica8733
@deleqtronica8733 2 жыл бұрын
If your bankroll is $100 you shouldn’t be expecting to make a living from gambling.
@lilgypsy_eddie1408
@lilgypsy_eddie1408 4 жыл бұрын
Basic strategy tricky hands video will be helpful like good 4 us to remember
@emmanuelvacakis4463
@emmanuelvacakis4463 2 жыл бұрын
Yes this is true. Don’t play continuously shuffled blackjack games
@orbitalscreationscreativea1709
@orbitalscreationscreativea1709 6 жыл бұрын
Hey Collin , in the city i live which Is Bogotá - Colombia, i have been playing over this machines all the Time, AND muy conclusión Is that Is a total ruin for the players, those machines literally make the casino win all the Time... In the city i live there are only 5 casinos each one with a vip Blackjack shoe table, one of those Is with 6 deck but the cut card Is placed in the middle... The other casino has 8 decks shoe AND there Is the only place that the cut card Is being placed 1deck AND a half of penetración. Which Is better to invest?
@Blackjackapprenticeship
@Blackjackapprenticeship 6 жыл бұрын
The only one I would consider playing is the casino that cuts off only 1.5 decks. The rest are garbage.
@orbitalscreationscreativea1709
@orbitalscreationscreativea1709 6 жыл бұрын
@@Blackjackapprenticeship AND what about it's a 8 deck shoe? Does it matter or have an impact ?
@0Clewi0
@0Clewi0 6 жыл бұрын
Another latin american just wanting to do a little grammar check. Most mistakes are just that you write "I" in minus and "is" in mayus.
@lilgypsy_eddie1408
@lilgypsy_eddie1408 4 жыл бұрын
In Malta they use csm as well well counting ain't works effectively
@balajikt3186
@balajikt3186 2 жыл бұрын
Indian goa casinos are only using CSMs. Also every round they shuffles 😒 What to do with this??
@jeancarloshernan3274
@jeancarloshernan3274 9 ай бұрын
Why don't all casinos switch to csm? Why do beatable casinos still exist?
@Blackjackapprenticeship
@Blackjackapprenticeship 9 ай бұрын
CSMs are expensive and difficult to maintain
@joselopes277
@joselopes277 3 жыл бұрын
In my country (Portugal) all black jack tables are CSM wich is pretty fucked up :/
@BertiferousRex
@BertiferousRex 7 жыл бұрын
Not considering the ability to count cards, does a CSM actually change the odds of the game? I've only played it on a cruise ship where it was the only option (and they shuffled after EVERY hand), but I sat down for three separate sessions that lasted about 5 minutes each, that's how bad it was. I lost almost every hand. I know the sample size is so small as to be statistically meaningless, but it was just so incredibly unlucky that it made me wonder. I did play in (actually finished second) in the blackjack tournament on the ship, and that was hand shuffled, and there I did just fine.
@taoliu3949
@taoliu3949 3 жыл бұрын
Short story is no, the odds doesn't change. If anything, the odds are closer to what it's supposed to be because the shoe is being reshuffled at a more constant rate. It's only an issue if you're counting cards, because now you no longer have the advantage of knowing what cards are left in the deck. Think of it as the shoe being reshuffled after every game.
@tpowell2072
@tpowell2072 2 жыл бұрын
Yea, i don’t like them but , I won $200 yesterday . And $100 last week , and the week before I got down $290 , but came back up and only lost $25 bucks so so far with about 10 hours with them I don’t see the problem, but I could have just been lucky time will tell! Ahha
@subhajitdutta8386
@subhajitdutta8386 4 жыл бұрын
Can u plz make a video on playing and betting deviation plz sir
@loveeachother5650
@loveeachother5650 4 жыл бұрын
There are games, which a beatable even with CSM. The only you need are rules, which give you an advantage on the top.
@Dibbs-qu1ke
@Dibbs-qu1ke 5 жыл бұрын
CSM games are here to stay. Why wouldn’t they be? The casinos make more money with them and the general public has no idea once they sit down - you aren’t going to get some ground swell of support against them
@AnishChari
@AnishChari 4 жыл бұрын
The casual gambler doesn't care, they don't see the difference in odds. Whereas it's very obvious 6:5 blackjack is way worse than 3:2. I'd rather have a CSM than 6:5!
@nickchaliamantas3743
@nickchaliamantas3743 5 жыл бұрын
why all casinos don't have CSMs? they could "save" a lot of money from card counters
@kenbagwell8551
@kenbagwell8551 4 жыл бұрын
They want the card counters action. Most of them won't win anyway.
@nichtsistkostenlos6565
@nichtsistkostenlos6565 2 жыл бұрын
CSMs deter wanna-be card counters, which are probably about 95% of self professed card counters. The casinos want to attract the fake ones, and just use surveillance to back off the real counters. They probably reckon they're winning more from the bad counters than they're losing from the real ones and they're probably right.
@blackjackmaster1432
@blackjackmaster1432 10 ай бұрын
Most CSM's are rented not owned so there is a cost to the casino but over the course of a month thay tend to make more money with them.
@jakemcgrae7539
@jakemcgrae7539 7 жыл бұрын
so, more money can be made in the u.s. then Canada?
@allwrighty100
@allwrighty100 4 жыл бұрын
*than
@DragonPupEclipse
@DragonPupEclipse 7 жыл бұрын
Lets say you don't count cards. Is it better to play csm if that is the case?
@MondoLeStraka
@MondoLeStraka 7 жыл бұрын
Yes. Very slightly better.
@Saktor2
@Saktor2 7 жыл бұрын
how so? arent the odds the same?
@GaryLuKOTH
@GaryLuKOTH 6 жыл бұрын
The house edge is lower but it is still worse to play with these machines because the increase in number of hands per hour makes your bankroll more exposed to the house edge.
@jaydenmidson1882
@jaydenmidson1882 6 жыл бұрын
I live in Brisbane, Australia and there is one casino which doesn't use tables without a csm...... A new one is being built so fingers crossed
@markspin4596
@markspin4596 5 жыл бұрын
And which Casino is that?
@musatebi486
@musatebi486 3 жыл бұрын
Let's say I know places where they have Continuous Shuffle Machines but with player advantage of the top, how much compensation should I get to reveal this almost secret.
@jasondownsnet
@jasondownsnet 2 жыл бұрын
CSM games seem to be the standard nowadays.
@ambrose7196
@ambrose7196 11 ай бұрын
Macau only has CSM machines. Now what?
@jamani1086
@jamani1086 6 жыл бұрын
ive seen it where they place the cards back in the machine after each hand. i will not play csm tables. even if the min bet is low, i will not play. note to casino: get rid of these freaking machines.
@Rasta796
@Rasta796 4 жыл бұрын
And lose money to card counters? Nice advice
@Jbluez1
@Jbluez1 3 жыл бұрын
Sam Williams More money has been lost by would be card counters than has ever been won.
@andrewmcallister3529
@andrewmcallister3529 3 жыл бұрын
cry more
@SomeOne-fg5zv
@SomeOne-fg5zv 7 жыл бұрын
Do any movie about penetration,isee some problems on 50% penetration...Count never get's high.So?Any help?
@indichicjazzy
@indichicjazzy 5 жыл бұрын
so true, but 1 time at a $1 table st hooters this guy came up almost 500 every 5/7 hands he would significantly increase his bet by 5 or more and won several times with that pattern
@riddleman
@riddleman 5 жыл бұрын
This sucks for Australian card counters. Australia has a shitty law that only allows one casino per state so they can make any change they want and we have to suck it up or not gamble.
@westbourne
@westbourne 4 жыл бұрын
In Sydney there will soon be two casinos
@jasonlillard4089
@jasonlillard4089 2 жыл бұрын
can’t you treat a CSM game like a single deck game?
@nichtsistkostenlos6565
@nichtsistkostenlos6565 2 жыл бұрын
No, because they're pulling from 6 - 8 decks at a time. The first 52 cards to come out of the machine aren't going to be a standard 52 card deck, so it doesn't even matter if you memorize the cards, you have no clue what's likely to come out next.
@carsonf3201
@carsonf3201 5 жыл бұрын
if these csm stop card counters why don’t casinos start doing these csm games???
@chuckzamzow
@chuckzamzow Жыл бұрын
Mikki Mase say that a CSM can sort the cards at the end of the day.
@lewisreynolds5283
@lewisreynolds5283 Жыл бұрын
In the UK, I can’t find a single casino that doesn’t have CSMs,,,, if anyone knows of any casinos in the UK with manual shuffle please reply to this
@V4NLIFE_CANADA
@V4NLIFE_CANADA 11 ай бұрын
Most CSMs continue to shuffle after every card is pulled… they don’t just shuffle when one deck is out 😂
@altagolfer
@altagolfer 6 жыл бұрын
I donated $1500 to one of those stupid machines before. The way the cards were coming out it's like they're made to make you bust. The only time I made some money back is when I played backwards staying on everything, and dealer started busting haha
@leonho8757
@leonho8757 5 жыл бұрын
That is quite true.
@Mitjitsu
@Mitjitsu 8 ай бұрын
What pisses me off about those games is every round they put the cards back into the machine
@tarikabichacra
@tarikabichacra 5 жыл бұрын
The shuffle machine can be bet , I already bit them for more than 20k , at late night the dealer will be very tired to remove all the cards and put it again in shuffle machine I notice that most of the time they play until 3 decks when it’s late night and there is a lot of players on the table , yesterday I bit them by 3k , the true count was +5 in three decks which has been delt so I spread 7 bets on the table with 200$ each bet , I received three blackjack and two 8s which I split and double it down as the dealer have 6 , I win all of them and the dealer bust , so counting cards work also in shuffle machine if the dealer is lazy to put again the cards in the machine , my advice play always the minimum when you loose and increase the bets when the count in your favorite don’t scare to loose the money especially when you play perfect basic strategy and perfect betting
@newscottishgolf7305
@newscottishgolf7305 Жыл бұрын
I know these things are straight up garbage but if you’re just playing perfect, basic strategy and not card counting, can it improve your odds? or should even perfect basic strategy, players avoid CSM games like the plague? (I would avoid them my self but the 15 and $25 tables are exclusively CSM‘s at my casino but they still pay 3 to 2 on a blackjack if they go 6 to 5 im done with those tables so it’s all I have to play for longer sessions where i increase or decrease my bet based on how I’m doing. Shoe games start at $50 so I hit those when I go for more of a hit and run strategy with basic strategy get some quick wins and get the money out)
@Blackjackapprenticeship
@Blackjackapprenticeship Жыл бұрын
With the most common rules in US casinos perfect basic strategy alone leaves the casino with ~.5% edge so you're probably not going to lose a ton quickly but in the long run you're not going to win against a CSM.
@newscottishgolf7305
@newscottishgolf7305 Жыл бұрын
@@Blackjackapprenticeship thanks for the advice
@11cookeaw14
@11cookeaw14 3 жыл бұрын
I'm sorry but, you don't seem ton include the losses on the spreadsheet? Those should be .62$ bringing the thotal to $1.55 an hour.
@Drewdownkali
@Drewdownkali 3 жыл бұрын
Csm provide higher odds for basic strategy
@taoliu3949
@taoliu3949 3 жыл бұрын
The odds are all the same regardless of shoe or CSM if you're playing strictly basic strategy. The difference is you get more games because the dealer doesn't have to manually reshuffle the decks.
@blackjackmaster1432
@blackjackmaster1432 10 ай бұрын
No the game is worse cause the small cards keep going back in as a result the count does not go positive often so the player odds would drop a bit depending on the rules and how often the cards go back in and your playing more hands so more chances to lose and for bad players it's even worse. In Alberta Canada the odds go from a house edge of 1.47 percent to 1.84 percent when you change from a hand shuffled game to a CSM. note odds and percentage are different. odds are the difference from 50/50 and percent is always out of 100 but there is a direct connection. a house edge of 1.84 means that long term the house will win 52 out of 100 hands. if the house wins 52 the player is left 48 hands out of 100. So as a percentage the house advantage is just under 4%. Also note the real number is just a bit lower then what is stated above. This is due to the fact that a player can bet odd amounts of money and get 50 cent pieces back when hitting blackjack. Also note that this number will change depending on the rules you play under. The house advantage comes from 2 things. The player acts first #2 the deck spends more time rich in small cards vs large ones. Some people think it's the other way around but it's not. In the above example with house odds of 1.84. if you play for 100 minutes on average the deck will spend about 52 minutes or so with a low or negative count.
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