CAN Heat Pumps REALLY Keep You Warm on the COLDEST Day?!

[@bossman6174]

Here in Ontario Canada it was -18C and the house is 20C inside with a heat pump. No problem. We always keep the temp the same bc it takes a long time to heat it back up.

[@JonathanTracey]

yeah It amazes me where these people get their info, Canada and Nordics have had heat pumps for years, and you get much colder temps than us. Appreciate the comments and hope you stay warm.

[@scoutfinch47]

It's more about the cost of electricity, which in the UK is a massive monthly cost and will rise as it does every year.

[@solentbum]

A thing to remenber is that Heat Pumps effectively work to the Kelvin scale of Temperature. Whist an outside temp of 10 c sounds much warmer than -7c , on the Kelvin scale , (a true measure of heat available), 10C is 283 K whilst -7c is still 266k. A simple understanding of how heat measurement works will show that Heat Pumps work well even in 'cold' weather.

[@JonathanTracey]

Yep Kelvin is the only true scale :-) I noted today that the heat pump was pulling in -3c air and expelling -24.1c air which shows how much energy there was to extract.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Great stuff - similar to my experience in Durham! This is a great video, really good summary, snappy, to the point. Brill!

[@JonathanTracey]

Hey Tom, hows the temperature been in the great white north ? Stay Warm

[@nicholascrosby6300]

It’s-9.5 in the Highlands of Scotland north of Inverness and our Valiant heat pump with its R290 refrigerant is keeping our 1989 built house at a steady 20 degrees.

[@JonathanTracey]

but it’s impossible heat pumps don’t work in cold temperatures 😂😂😂😂

[@nicholascrosby6300]

Must be an ‘effin miracle then…

[@JonathanTracey]

🪄✨

[@serraios1989]

Very useful that thermal camera. Good point about insulating the pipes more. A pipe channel and some rock wool.

[@JonathanTracey]

I'm heading to B&Q tomorrow. It looks like a lot of heat in the camera image but its only slightly warm. But I would rather have all the heat in the pipe 😀😂

[@johnbell1859]

Great video Johnathan. 🇬🇧

[@JonathanTracey]

thanks for the support John👍

[@Woods2Woody]

Can you post the running costs?

[@JonathanTracey]

check back a couple of videos, did one on my cost to run and another on what it would cost if you had no solar and batteries

[@garysmith5025]

It's been sub zero for the last 4 days where I am in the north Highlands and was -14.1C last night, it hasn't got above -6c during the day today but has been sunny with full snow cover. In the 24 hours up to 4pm today our heat pump has output a total of 27.2kWhr to the heating section of our thermal store for a consumption of 9.4kWhr of electricity, i.e. a COP of about 2.9. A large part of that electricity was generated by our solar PV between about 10:00 and 15:00 today and the thermal store is now 11.7c above the heating flow temp so we have over 20kWhr of heat energy available. That means the heat pump will only run for 2-3 hours overnight (same as last night) so we can maximise its use during the day when it's warmer. Heat pumps are amazing bit of kit, but if you can add a decent size thermal store they're even better.

[@B0jangle5]

What thermal store do you have?

[@JonathanTracey]

-14 wow thats proper cold :-) coupling with solar and batteries is the key to amazing performance, until someone comes up with a way to create your own gas (no jokes please) its got to be the way to go

[@garysmith5025]

@@B0jangle5 A Jaspi Ultrastore which is 500 litres and a 1500litre Cordivari, the way I have them working at the moment means about 1500l of the total is used for the central heating.

[@garysmith5025]

@@JonathanTracey -14c whilst dry and calm actually feels a lot better than when it's -5c, snowing and 60mph winds which is far more common for us!🥶I was out on the sun lounger last night, wrapped up in 3 sleeping bags whilst stargazing! 😀 I'd like batteries at some point but the finances don't work out due to us not being able to get a cheap overnight tariff. I can see the time will come when DIY "plug and play" batteries are available at maybe £50/kWhr, but until then we're able to store the majority of excess solar production either in cars or as heat, so the 300 - 400kWhr that wasted is pretty irrelevant.

[@JonathanTracey]

I walk talking to someone today who is trying to build a DIY battery from a nissan leaf he bought. It’s a 24kw battery on wheels and it cost him less than 3k

[@BrianTootill-e7j]

Thanks JT, another interesting and informative video.👍

[@JonathanTracey]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@DesHume-l5s]

Another great video 👏🏻👏🏻

[@JonathanTracey]

Thank you, appreciate the support 😀

[@michalrybinski3233]

I have same pump from Octopus and I have it set to 25C, my wife does not cope well with temperatures below 22-23 so we keep it high all the time. Obviously some rooms will be lower some even higher but the Daikin have no problem with keeping up, it just uses a lot of energy. In December it used up 344kWh for the heating alone what still turned out to be cheaper than gas heating last year.

[@JonathanTracey]

My wife would also love 25 degrees but our Bernese mountain dogs would pass out :-) I used a similar amount in December and as with you way cheaper than gas

[@michalrybinski3233]

@@JonathanTracey I have two dachshunds, they love it :D

[@JonathanTracey]

my friend has two of them as well, he calls them self heating scatter cushions

[@malchall5316]

I have posted a few comments to on here, most have been answered as I hoped they would be so thanks for that JT Now my situation is out of the norm with now, as we are self building our forever home, and the ASHP has been throwing some odd stats, yes each room has no doors on yet, so it's hard to regulate what the house actually is wanting from the ASHP, as we have UFH downstairs and upstairs, and spiked at 7kw 2 days ago around 11am to 12 midday. Now my thing here is, the ASHP has been drawing 48kw a day, which is extremely high imho, but we have no gas, so everything is relying on what the ASHP is trying to do for us, and we also have 20 PV panels, but are only producing around 3.5kw a day. So what I'm driving at, it's hard to tell if the ASHP is working as it should be, as there's so many parameters that need to get data from, to know exactly where we are at, bearing in mind we don't even live in the house, and all the stats in the 4 bedroom house are set to 15 degrees. Regards Malc

[@JonathanTracey]

When you had the HP installed did you have a heat loss survey done? Without doors as you say you going to have issues keeping the heat in one place, and the thermostat is probably just calling for heat all the time. What size is the heat pump, in kWh?

[@solentbum]

An important consideration is what amount of insulation does the build have? Plus draught proofing and windows. Is the ground floor insulated to prevent downward losses, the roof or loft fully insulated? My own home has 26cm of underfloor insulation, 200 mm in the walls and an Insulate SIPS roof with 200 mm insulation. We heat the whole house to 21C , the roof area is an open gallery! Much of the heating is done overnight on low rate electricity. It is difficult to work out the heating element of my bill as we also charge 3 cars over night. My suggestion is that you pay attention to the energy saving elements of the build before trying to tune the ASHP. As for the solar PV , at this time of year in the UK don't expect too much, my roof only managed 3kwh today.

[@JonathanTracey]

Absolutely, we added lots of insulation and tracked down the leaks before we put in the ASHP, we had to get a new EPC done before we could apply for the grant. I think anyone considering it should follow your advice and insulate it to a high level first otherwise your just burning money

[@bosl24164275]

Agree with everything you say JT, ours is working perfectly and the house is warm. The only change I made was during the day temp was set at 19C but I changed to 20C. EV pre conditioning is great in this weather 👍👍

[@JonathanTracey]

We have a bit of an argument over the thermostat she puts it to 21 and I put it back to 19 :-) we tell each other we compromise on 20 but we really dont :-)

[@alancarolan3246]

Thanks John. Very informative as always. Time to stop wasting energy trying to convince those with a blinkered view of future energy solutions. Waste of time.

[@JonathanTracey]

Yeah I know but I enjoy it :-)

[@Anrirua]

I've watched this video 43 times already and I didn't notice you changing a tyre at all???

[@JonathanTracey]

you need to watch it more 😂

[@johnb7644]

Have you tried just heating the hot water on cheap or battery power and not using the heat pump, so the heat pump doesn’t interrupt the heating schedule

[@JonathanTracey]

no because the immersion is only 100% efficient, the HP is about 300% so it’s much cheaper and it’s faster than the immersion

[@johnb7644]

@@JonathanTracey Good points Johnathan, I only asked because I viewed a video on YT that when it gets to minuses degrees a vanilla tastes heat pump will automatically switch to continuous heating and stop the hot water heating to reduce defrosts

[@JonathanTracey]

Yes they can only do one at a time, what we find is the 45 mins or so it takes to reheat the water after morning showers has a negligible effect on the heat in the house

[@peterhulbert]

I have been enjoying your honest videos and for someone like me who is considering buying a heat pump, your video is invaluable. Thank you for providing this information, it's truly helpful.

[@JonathanTracey]

Glad it was helpful!, and thank you for the support it’s really appreciated 👍

[@andymcnaughton2100]

What’s the running cost ?

[@JonathanTracey]

check back a few videos, lay out the costs both with and without solar

[@andymcnaughton2100]

@ thanks

[@JonathanTracey]

👍

[@killercarpcatcher]

Preheating EV is great. I just wish I'd remember to do it 😂

[@JonathanTracey]

Home assistant is your friend, have a button that lets me just press it the night before and it will take care of it in the morning

[@killercarpcatcher]

@JonathanTracey Nice. I've got a Leaf which will allow scheduling etc but isn't quite that clever. I'm not doing regular journeys now so I just forget to run it.

[@JonathanTracey]

yes my wife’s leaf has to be scheduled in the car itself to defrost, i haven’t found a way to do it remotely yet

[@ram64man]

How is your cop levels at _3 with the unit you said 1kwh but didn't say if it had fallen from 3 .9 to a kWh . I'm trying to judge heatpump models I've worked out that my gas boiler efficiency has fallen to 89 from 94% per therm on low temp cycle at minus 4 right now my usual building has a cop of just 2to 1 in minus 10 and is a mitsubishi eco Dan this is the first real test for many not that it won't heat but energy costs increased another friend using vallaint monotower has a 3.6 fallen to 2.5 per kWh as well better than my rig

[@JonathanTracey]

based on today we’re seeing a combined heating and hot water cop of 3.1

[@robynrox]

0:33 You have a temperature sensor attached to your mother in law? Looks cold. 😂 But seriously, great news! Still waiting for my planning permission and I've shifted over to Octopus Go, at least, for now; I have a feeling that will work out best for most of the time even when I do get a heat pump!

[@JonathanTracey]

Yes she likes to open her windows and let fresh air”freezing cold” air in :-) I agree Go probably is the best at the moment as it looks like Agile is having a mad month

[@David-lf4zk]

How much does it cost to run thet big fan 24/7

[@JonathanTracey]

Did a video on this a few days ago, if you want full details go check that out, the fan does not run all day it runs when its creating heat, on cold days it runs more but still not 24/7

[@_Dougaldog]

I have the same unit, a few days ago it used 22kWh over a 24h period. I have my system set for 'flow control', at this it works well for me with unit running 24/7 in a slow steady state mostly 36C flow at the moment. British Gas charge me 14p per kWh, so that's £3.08 for that day, was 466kWh for whole of December running 24/7, or £65.24. On a 25p per kWh tariff that would be £116.5 for heating and hot water for December. Two bed semi, modest insulation, Living room average 21.1C, Bathroom 23.3C, Hallway 20.9C, bedroom 20.4C, outdoor temperature 5.6C all averages over December.

[@JonathanTracey]

yep smart tariffs and clever use of power can decimate the gas pricing

[@malchall5316]

I had omitted to say we have 2 x 6.5kw batteries, but have not managed to top them up as of yet, as I have been waiting on the MCS certificate for the Solar (176 pages long) so I can go onto Octopus Go tarrif, and Outgoing Octopus, which I have managed to apply for this week, I now await Octopus to get back to me so I can have my 13.5kw battery system charged at 8.5p a KW between 0.30 and 05.30.... I do not have a EV nor will I ever, hence why I won't go onto Intelegent Octopus tarrif.

[@JonathanTracey]

Sounds good, interested in why you say you will “never” own an EV, no issues with that everyone has their own preferences just interested why?

[@Lawrence7of9]

Recent days -8 to -2 & thereabouts, i admit I put an oil heater we have from a previous property ready to go. But our ASHP has been great, I let temp drop overnight (18degrees) as can be too warm and it does take the morning to warm back up to 19/20 degrees but toasty by afternoon/evenings. Our house not ideal & I have maxed out 55degrees & curve, from warmer season settings. Hot water still good. Certainly the Daikin has been working harder & consuming lots more power but costs at worse matches previous gas/electric bill otherwise much less. I expected this in coldest days & perhaps more, but expected to compensate with rest of the year, but it’s way better than that. My French missis has no complaints, high praise!

[@JonathanTracey]

i think when you average out the whole year it’s going to be a lot cheaper, even with some supplemental heating if needed

[@paguk2000]

Watch Tim and Kats green walk they pre heat the house on cheap rate yes they use more engery however this is cheaper !!!!!!

[@JonathanTracey]

I crunched the numbers against Tim’s, because I have enough capacity to run the thing all day from batteries its cheaper for me to run it at consistent temperatures

[@jeanetteeftekhar6762]

Too expensive.

[@JonathanTracey]

compared to ?

[@synns6898]

Fekin ugley though isn’t it. If I had one of those it would destroy my sun trap because that is the only place it could go. Not a chance.

[@JonathanTracey]

that’s your call, for us irs round the side, out of sight

[@synns6898]

@ great if that’s an option but also the main reason why these are not viable for all and not a long term option for the country

[@JonathanTracey]

It’s an option for a lot of people, but not everyone. The running costs alone will make a lot of people look at getting one in the next few years as gas prices just continue to rise

[@paulclapton7803]

I don't want to be negative and it's all about choice, but what's going to happen when the majority have heat pumps putting more demands on electricity supply, the price per kw will only go one way 🤔, thanks for sharing your videos .

[@JonathanTracey]

I’m not sure I see it that way, as a country we are building more and more renewables so there is more need to balance the grid, this brings cheaper prices when there is abundant energy the providers sill give it to you cheaper if you use it to charge cars or heat your home. This is starting to happen here in the east, we get free power when there is abundant energy in the area.

[@paulclapton7803]

​@JonathanTracey thanks for thr reply, like I said don't want to be negative ,but if you look at today, very little wind beginning produced yes there is solar ,but depand on the grid is extremely high pushing octopus agile prices to the max today .

[@JonathanTracey]

yes there are also a few other reasons for the super high price, the main one is the gas planners have screwed up, we have about 7 days capacity in storage, this has pushed up prices and electricity prices are linked to the gas price

[@malchall5316]

Also as JT has pointed out in one of his videos, a ASHP can use around 1kw to run but can actulay produce around 4kw to heat your UFH and hot water, so in truth there's less demand on the grid.

[@cwt5654]

​@@paulclapton7803Agreed, Agile pricing is super high today (in 'standby mode' at the moment!) but back to normalish prices tomorrow.