Can rusty American flyer tinplate track be saved?

[@jimhayes3225]

Evaporust at harbor freight

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Thanks for the comment Jim.

[@franciscocioffi1058]

I did it. Excelent result removed to all rust. I live alongside the coast (a little far [] Brazil) here salinity in the air is heavy. I will paint the tracks to avoid the rust again. Thanks regards.

[@stephenallmanjr3105]

Any damage to the cardboard?

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

If by cardboard you are referring to the insulators...I did not observe any.

[@ronalddevine9587]

And my hat is off to you, good sir!

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Is that hat off, head slightly bowed and shaking slowly side to side? LOL Thankyou!

[@joeychuggs]

This is awesome. I just subscribed,and liked your video. I am new to the hobby. I am going to switch from fast track to tubular track.

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Welcome aboard!

[@joeychuggs]

@@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains Thank you Sir.

[@michaelgmoore5708]

I watched a guy soak his track in 4% gallon of Vinegar. 24 hours later the track was 90% clean. Soaking again track was better. He then washed the track in baking soda and water. Then put all the track in a 200 degree oven for 1 hour. Removed the clean track and it looked good. I would stand by the whole process and keep an eye on the oven!

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Thant seems like a great plan!

[@michaelgmoore5708]

It did not work for me. All the track rusted anyway. Scotch brite s were no good either, so I used my Brite Boy track eraser to polish the rails. That worked! Better than anything for the tops of the rails only.

[@WeekendsOutsideFL]

I tried this but In a rushed manner. I only gave it a 5 hour soak, but the track was not that rusty to begin with. A quick brush off, rinse in baking soda water, fling water off and stick in oven. Whoa. Whole thing rusted back over in the oven. I thought the baking soda rinse was to prevent that. I was thorough. The rust just seems to want to haunt the my track.

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

I've returned to mechanical rust removal as it goes quicker and I don't end up with the blueing missing from ties and the rust issues.

[@michaelgmoore5708]

@@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains I agree Austin. Get Marty's track cleaner, rust remover. That is all that is nessesary after wasting so much time on Vinegar and painting ties etc. Pure mineral oil removes a lot of dirt and rust too. Dry the track really good and track is ready to run trains with no traction reduced either. I bôught some old cans of Gilbert track cleaning fluid. Some body should reproduce it. The best stuff ever made for track. Marty's track cleaner is close and removes rust too. For get Vinegar and all that messy grocery store Junk I see people use like Goo Gone etc. Dave uses Simple Green for cleaning and is non toxic which is probably ok. I will stick to pure mineral oil, It is cheap and has no odor at all. I am not talking about Mineral Spirits, that is not the same. Good luck and keep it simple. I can't find CRC 226 anywhere. Is that the right number?? Can't remember anything.

[@michaelgmoore5708]

I have done it all now Austin. Soaked track in vinegar and water also just vinegar. Lookéd great but when watching the track dry, it started to the rust more as the track dried. So I have 2 boxes of rusty track. All I could do then is scotch brite the rails to be a nice shine. Works just fine. Look s more real anyway even tho the track is all rusty!

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

I imagine that is a very cool look...some people paint the rails to get that look.

[@RailyardProductions]

After using vinegar you should rinse in a solution of baking soda. That might help eliminate the rusting problem.

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Thanks for your comment.

[@RailyardProductions]

@@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains Your welcome. Just got a set gifted to me but can't get the locomotive to run. The brushes look to be about 1/2" long. Should I replace them? Cleaned the commuter but its not very flat.

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Does the engine run? Without details it's hard to know how to respond.

[@ronalddevine9587]

OCD, eh? LOL, just kidding. Years ago there was a product called BLACKEN IT. Don't know if it's still available or not. Glad you gave the safety goggle warning. Those pesky wire bristles hide and hang out for months.

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

I have since found a three bottle product called gun blue. Which in subsequent test on metal, does an excellent job of bluing (blackening) metal. BUT...I have come to the conclusion that I do not wish to spend the hours and hours necessary using vinegar, rinsing, heat drying and then re-bluing all the ties. A dremel, tool, a couple bits and a minute or less gets as good if not better results.

[@MarkWick]

I made it to the end. I wish I had known about the vinegar and water combination before spending many, many hours years ago cleaning up rusted AF track. I brought many pieces back from the land of rust, with lots of sanding with very fine black sandpaper. I generally didn't worry about rusty sides because real railroad rails are rusty except on the top any way. I painted all the rails on my layouts with rust colored paint, then used the fine sand paper to clean the tops of the rails. I still have photos of the layouts and the rails look very real.

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

I would be very interested in seeing pictures. Please share.

[@MarkWick]

@@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains is there a way to share photos here?

[@Watchmaker_Gereon-Schloesser]

Hello, here a north german (Hannover) clock and watchmaker who bought his first A.F.-Set (Hudson K325 from Sep. 1953 knuckle couplers freight set) as a gift for my self for my graduation as a watchmaker at the clock and watchmaker school in Hamburg in 2009 (start of the apprenticeship was 2006, so 3 years) Now I'm living close to the geneva lake in the french speaking switzerland. My thoughts to your black tie problem: It could be that the rust ate it BEFORE your vinegar bath. It is only a slight coating. In german we call this "Brünierung" (ü = ue, ä = ae, ö = oe), simply an oxide which protects a bit the steel surface and to give it the color black. Often done if you put slight hot (under 200* Celsius) metal parts in oil (but ~NO hardening!) It should be clear that this method can't rebuild the lost rust to new steel. As far as I know the vinegar transforms only the parts where the rust is. Vinegar / acids methods will give to the former red-rust parts an silver/grey surface. Quite nice, if you consider the first look. Also - it works nearly without mechanical treatment. Sometimes a 2nd run in new fresh lemon/vinegar acid helps also. Here's what I like to do with rusted things: Put it in lemon juice or simply cheap vinegar (5% acid is the standart) Let it sit for ~24 hours. Theoretically a bit of heating (under 50 * Celsius) makes it faster, as chemicals react better with heat. (A light bulb, desklamp, over the level, for example) Also, theoretically a moving bath could also help, but not necessary. In between you can help it to rub a bit the rust off with tooth sticks or same little wooden "tools" / water ice holder stick. Rince it with baking soda OR clothes washing (german brand: Persil) powder (simply an acid neutraliser PH 8-9) Then rince it in / with water. And finally put it in alcohol (the cheap stuff, for lamps/wicks/live steam trains/ model steam engines etc...) as it "suck"/binds the water to it. Then dry it either with the oven (100* Celsius) 1 hour, or simply take a cookie plate (metal) an dry it with an fan, "so hot" that you can't touch it anymore without "autch". Rust protection: Use bees wax solved in true turpentine or simply paraffine (candle wax) solved in ligther fluid (zippo etc.)/ cleaning benzine. You can spray this or submerge it in this solution. The solvent evaporates and it stays a thin coat of wax. Bees wax is "better". WD40 is for me a cleaner. Nearly 0 lubrication, it evaporates like Diesel/Lampoil/Kerosene Kind regards and cordially, Géréon

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Thank you for this very interesting and clearly detailed approach to track cleaning. It is wonderful to read that you are operating American Flyer in Switzerland. ( I had the privilege of visiting Jungfrau during college. Stunningly beautiful and loved the cog train ..but wish it was still steam.powered😉). Since that video I have started using 'gun blueing'. Which chemically blackened metal and is what AC Gilbert did in the factory. As for track cleaning, I have returned to mechanically removing dirt and rust and then use CRC 226 for maintenance. 226 has significantly improved train operations and significantly reduces time spent cleaning track and train wheels.

[@DrFrankensteam]

Thanks for the post! I have 3 huge boxes of track I’d like to clean up because I’m on a budget. And yes I did watch the whole thing, even though I’m a Lionel guy and not American Flyer!

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Lol...thanks for the comment frankensteam ..love your name also. Just to add...there are some who have experimented with other, more acidic heavy solutions. It seems light acid, while slower, yields very good results. You also want to make sure the acid is neutralized after the rust is removed...flushing with tap water or adding baking soda(a base) to water and dipping the track will neutralize the acid. Please let me know what you decide to use and how it goes...maybe you'll discover the perfect method.

[@DrFrankensteam]

@@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains Thank you I sure will, perhaps I will do a video on it myself. I just expanded my layout and I’m a little un happy with the quality of the track I used, but it was all I had.

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

@@DrFrankensteam if you need more track I could help...and there is a ton of it available on line as well.

[@andy41417]

I clean NOS vintage auto parts that were unfinished with this mix. Try laying rail tops down in shallow mix so ties are in air and blueing remains dry.

[@michaelgmoore5708]

After years of cleaning track now is to use rust remover track cleaner only. That cleans the ties and rails pretty good. Mineral oil cleans more with times you keep cleaning. Maybe after washing vinegar soaked track off, brushing lots of míneral on the clean track should keep the rust from coming back. After the oil is not wet any more, good old American Flyer track cleaning fluid or Marty's.track cleañing.fluid, specially made for American Flyer track.

[@gregoryrunningelk865]

Actually I put my tracks in straight white vinegar and leave it overnight, get up the next morning and wash all of them, allow them to dry fully and a way you go.

[@youroutdoorsman]

That's great to know

[@markr2831]

Hi what was the impact on the insulators? Thanks.

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

During my experiment I could not tell any degradation. But...my conclusion is this process was not worth the effort. I have since cleaned a ton of track using a Dremel tool and wire brush or scotch bright attachments

[@markr2831]

@@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains thanks

[@michaelegbert1564]

How do you make an insulated track?

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Are you asking about isolating a section or rail of track?

[@kentpool7414]

I stuck to the end!

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

You get 1 million points plus a gold star.

[@kennethschroeder2789]

Cleaned about 60 sections of rusted 1960s American Flyer track over the past week using a steel wire brush on a drill press. Worked well but use good leather gloves, eye protection, a face mask. and stay focused all the time while working the wire wheel brush. A slower drill press speed seemed to work best.

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Thankyou Kenneth for the comments...I too have returned to cleaning track as you mentioned.

[@larryrodgers6922]

What happened to the track cardboard insulators? You never mentioned if you replaced when reassembling the track

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Put the originals back on.

[@williambruceboisjoli8455]

Vinegar only for 48 hours and I hand painter the black And looks great

[@stephenrickjr.7519]

Try lemon juice it eats rust for lunch, I don't know what it will do to the insulation.

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Thanks Steve. Leon juice and vinegar do the same thing...they lower the PH balance into the acidic range. So yes, lemon juice would do what vinegar does. What I was attempting to do was find a way of removing the rust without causing other damage. Unfortunately submersing metal In an acidic will mean any metal in contact will be impacted...no matter the solution concentration.

[@sharpenflat6002]

Isn't it really hard on the insulation when you submerse the track in liquid? That can't be good for it. What do you think?

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

It did not hurt it.

[@sheep1ewe]

Thank You very muc for sharing Your taughts! I hawe about two bananaboxes filled with old rusty tracks i want to restore, at the moment most of it are limited to use with clockwork trains only, but it had been awsome if they could be used with the electric ones again! A question i hawe, is it possible to use acid or electrolysis without destroying the orignal zinc coating?

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

My video uses a 20% solution. The rail galvanizing was not removed. However, if I were to do this in the future u would go with a 5% solution. Also, when removing the track from the vinegar you will want to wash with regular water and then was with water that has baking soda in it. This will neutralize the acid. Many then put the track in an over at 150-200degrees Fahrenheit for 20 minutes to fully dry it. I recently cleaned up a bunch of track using a dremel tool. I'll post a video on that at some point. It all turned out good and didnt take too long. Good luck.

[@sheep1ewe]

@@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains Thank You wery much for Your reply!

[@robertnielsen2461]

Austen's American Flyer Trains.I hope I didn't come across as condescending I just thought I would explain what my experience had been.I'm still chuckling,the moment I saw Ph I knew I had been needlessly long winded.The subject of reclaiming rusty track has not been approached very often and I can bet there were many who found that information very useful. Glad to make your acquaintance even if it is long distance,ain't technology grand?Bob

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Lol...I thought is was great!

[@michaelgmoore5708]

What I did last time was wash the track in the dishwasher but just water, no soap or vinegar because the track would rust when dry anyway! So what I did was take the wet track out of dishwasher after shaking excess water out of the rails. The trick is, do not let the track dry until u spray or soak track in alcohol, displacing all of the water. When all of the alcohol dried, the track was not all rusty, all I had to do was wipe all the track down with shop rags wet with alcohol to get rid of stubborn rust spots that came off easily and then used Scotch Brites to polish up the rails. I set up the 24 pieces of cleaned track and ran my 343 switch er at all 18V really fast. The insulation on the track was never bothered by all my extremely washed track a few times over. The alcohol kept all the rust from coming back.

[@michaelgmoore5708]

Still want to try again Austin! My soaking the track in vinegar takes most of the rust off but not all of it on the sides of rails. All the rust comes back even after the 200 degree Oven trick. The rails shine up after using scotch brite s or track erasers. I have done everything but spray down the track with WD-40. Maybe that will keep the rust away? What do you think about that Austin. I have done the soaking in vinegar at least 5 times now!

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

I recently cleaned a bunch of track and used my dremel and different attachments. I'm not saying I wont try the vinegar again but probably only on the rails with ties removed.

[@rangercv4263]

One idea that I had was to use something like Eastwood black rust encapsulator for the ties. I know there is an aerosol version but not sure if there is a paint on version. Also, I think I saw somewhere that there is a Rustoleum rust encapsulator that can be painted on. I watch a lot of old car restoration content and the rust encapsulator is very effective for coating old rusty frames that were just sanded and you don’t want to continue to rust. Of course you wouldn’t want to paint rust encapsulator on the rails. Also with the vinegar, before painting anything on, you will need to make sure the surface to be painted is completely cleaned of all residue before applying a coat. Water with baking soda neutralizes vinegar, then a thorough drying and IPO to finish evaporated the water.

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Thanks for the comments Ranger. After further experiments I'm leaning away from vinegar. I'm finding that rail treated with vinegar will then rust everywhere. And, after further experiments with a different blueing chemical on the ties I'm just not happy with the results. I was wanting to clean the rails but still have original track. But, if, as you mentioned, painting and having a different look is not an issue then I think your approach would show promise. I might also add that I've struggled unsuccessful to stop rust in cars...despite different sprays and cleaning. But this was about a decade ago...So I hope some of the newer products are successful.

[@josephschuster1494]

There probably isn’t an easy, efficient way to clean toy train track. I use a sanding sponge ($1.25), 3 piece wire brush set ($1.25) from Dollar Tree Stores and 4 pc mini pick & hook set($1.75) from Harbor Freight Tools to clean all my AF track…works well! 😊

[@harrylatch7810]

Allways soak in vinigar and add Baking soda and soak at lest a day or two, should come easier to clean. of coarse the black ties will be bare. (never take rust off a car?) You gotta repaint!. I clean all my track like this, never use chemicals. I also clean tin plated cares and engines shells that are badly rusted. I have a Red Cross Marx train that some would have junked, using this system the Train is very nice and others would like one, yet set was junk. Thanks for posting! just next time also soak in Baking Soda!

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Thank you harry. I will keep this in mind.

[@michaelgmoore5708]

Will the baking soda keep rust from returning to track?

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

The baking soda neutralizes the acid...which will slow it stop corrosion. Bare metal exposed to oxygen will oxidize or rust. A coating of nickel, zink, paint or oil is necessary to put a barrier between the metal and the oxygen and prevent the rusting/oxidation.

[@johnbullock8911]

do you have links to the tools you used i want to pick one up thats the right one

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Unfortunately I do not. But if you search for dremel/rotary tool polishing and grinding attachments you will find these. I grind with a scotch bright type material and then burnish with a brass or steel brush attachment.

[@richardwortmann9827]

Austin, I enjoyed your video but you didn't show how you took the track apart and then assembled the ties. Please show what was involved. Best regards Rich Wortmann

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Thank you for your comment Rich. Yes, I would be happy to demonstrate that. Good news is it is a very simple process.

[@michaelgmoore5708]

I cleaned over 16 full boxes of rusty track only a devoted American Flyer collector would do. what's 12x16? I put all the track in the hot dishwasher with lots of vinegar. took all the dirt off and some of the rust too. hot water and vinegar in a big sink using a fine wire brush did the rest. After a few days of drying time I polishised all rails to mirror shine with just a couple of Brite Boy track erasers! Only took a couple days of hard handwork. The average person would have trashed the works!😂

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

I salute you ! Well done!

[@michaelgmoore5708]

The rust did come back even after I sprayed the track thourally with alcohol within a day or so. The guy that sprayed the track with WD40 said the track looked new I think. But when the WD40 dries up, what happens then? My track is cleaner each time I rub them down so that is better but the track will always be rusty but the rails will shine up using Scotch Brites. My trains ran just fine. I don't really care if the track stays rusty, just so the rails shine and carry the electricity with no problem! Any body experience the same things I did?!

[@plunkervillerr1529]

Marx prewar here, I `ve used the same method on all my tin locomotives and track . 24 hours on track , and 48 on locomotive shells to remove paint and rust .

[@rogerevoy6191]

Using a wire wheel brush on your bench grinder removes lots of rust. Then chemicals such as vinegar if desired.

[@kevinmills8437]

I Will Clean My Tracks from Rust.

[@michaelgmoore5708]

You don't need anything else but vinegar, wire brush, hot water and track erasers like I used and I did all that back in the 1960s and again just 15 years ago. Use dishwasher with a pint of vinegar. everything else is too messy and toxic too.

[@bartsheldon2620]

You never told what condition the cardboard insulators were after the chemical bath; Did they dry out naturally ? Were they usable? Did you have to replace them? I tried a water and 5% vinegar soak over 4 days and no real corrosion change on the rails or the insulators Next 1 tried same bath but with baking soda; Same results Then I heard someone tried alcohol added to the bath; I have. not tried that …..yet I will other “formulas” and comment if I hit progress Thx for all your videos, I am just starting AF again after digging out my Pacific passenger train set my dad gave me in 1955 for Christmas Now that I retired Thx again

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Hello Bart. Please keep me posted on your trials. I let the insulators dry and they appeared unphased. Because if the removal of the tie blacking...I have decided this is not a direction I will pursue. I have returned to cleaning with Dremel tool attachments. I'm also experimenting with using a tumbler...and as yet have not had any success.

[@traindavid]

The factory black finish on the ties is "bluing" a chemical treatment that helps prevent rust and turns the ties black--very similar to what you used, but it requires the metal to be clean, clean, clean and to be rinsed off before it causes rust. A semi-gloss black would replicate the finish better than flat black. I use a glass bead machine to clean rusty track. if it's not too rusty, the ties stay fairly black, but if it requires a heavy cleaning, then yes, you lose the tie color--solution? Create 1946 era black track with gloss black paint and sand off the top of the rails. I also have been known to hit the track with clear coat, and sand off the tops afterwards. This works well on track that only needed light cleaning, as it helps prevent new rust. My system doesn't get the insulating paper wet, which is one reason I went that way (the other is that I have the glass bead cabinet already!).

[@michaelgmoore5708]

Don't know Austin, All I know is the guy had a tub of 100% white vinegar full to almost the top and had about 20 pieces of track in there over night. The track came out shiny and the ties were still black. I saw the video so I have no idea why it worked that way.

[@robertnielsen2461]

Michael G Moore vinegar is a mild organic acid. If you use this method,once the rust is removed you need to neutralize any remaining acid,hence the baking soda which is a base and will do away with any left over acid.If you choose to reblacken the ties I like to use gun blueing which you can find at any full line gun shop.Gun Bluing is an acid also,it works quickly but you will need to remove any left over by rinsing the track throughly with warm water and then drying in a warm oven.once this is done I like to use WD40 to prevent any new rusting.

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Thanks for the ph lesson Robert. I've had issues with some of my bluing projects turning rusty very quickly...even when they are dry. I've wondered about clearcoating the blackened metal? I'm wondering what process flyer used that kept the blackening from rusting...well...unless in very humid environments.

[@erniebellinetti7590]

Austin, I enjoy your videos and your enthusiasm for Ameriican Flyer trains and accessories. I appreciate your "Let's try to fix this " approach even when at first you don't succeed. On the topic of track cleaning like you I have tried a variety of approaches. Once you watch the link belowtalks what do and what NOT to do to really clean model track and wheels. He models in 'N' but .Information applies to all scales. check it out! kzbin.info/www/bejne/onO8qZ2Zibx2eJI The first 10 minutes shows the typical methods and products used by most model railroaders that actually are not good long term and actually can make the problems worse. .Ron used many of these himself until he did extensive testing and arrived at his current method. At the 10:33sec mark in the video Ron describes the method he uses now which is a combination of a non-polarized cleaner like common Mineral Spirits and a dielectric product called NO-OX-ID. This information will change how you approach cleaning your track and equipment wheels.