Can The 7900 XTX Be Saved...By AIB Models? VRAM OC Breaks XTX Performance? December Q&A [Part 2]

[@Hardwareunboxed]

Part 1 here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/foOqmXaEfZyUfbs

[@pino_de_vogel]

I have one question considering the first idle power related question. What power plan are you in for the cpu and if nvidia gpu is used the gpu power plan. I found that power plans can have a large impact on idle power draw and that may be why power draw on different reviews online vary that much. (idle also mattrers a lot to me with kWh prices op to over 1 euro a kWh lol)

[@dame666999]

We need more videos on undervolting and power limiting on gpu’s and CPU’s during the power crisis as there are savings to be had without much performance lost. It’s possible to save quite a lot of watts on a 4080/4090 and 7900xtx with undervolting and frame caps etc

[@SpeedyJuiceMan]

Is the video title supposed to say "can the 7900 XT be saved" instead of the 7900 XTX???

[@DTeel]

@@pino_de_vogel i

[@awdrifter3394]

The ThankBoxChristYear edition.

[@kolossarthas]

About the cleaning/dusting question, because of their location on the globe, in Australia dust tends to go up and settle on the ceiling, instead of the floor like it does in Northern Hemisphere. That's why you will see ads on tv showing housewives vacuuming the ceiling and nobody in Australia uses ceiling fans.

[@paulustrucenus]

It would be so funny if someone actually falls for that, and genuinely thinks this is sarcasm when it is so obviously just a scientific fact.

[@kolossarthas]

@@paulustrucenus the only people who claim Australia is not upside down are literally flat earthers, just don't give them the attention they want bro.

[@theelectricprince8231]

I almost bought that because Australia is so weird

[@Dan-wn2lg]

This is why gpus are so expensive in Aus, the extra cost of upside-down heat dissipation is crazy!

[@ivotomic1558]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@prman9984]

Power consumption is not only about price with high end components, it's also about heat in your room. I have a 7950x that I'm running at 105w. That's 70w of heat saved for 1-2% performance difference. And a 3090 which I have undervolted to save another 70w, again for about 1-2% performance. That's a noticeably cooler room that I'm sitting in in the summer.

[@khunoum2065]

I dont mean to be rude or something but if you have money to buy $1000++ gpu why cant you afford an ac? By the way its not a proper solution but im just curious.

[@MrJonas7]

@@khunoum2065 I can tell you why I don't have an ac, in my climate, it's not worth it for the few months of the year you might actually need it, plus it consumes a lot of power, which is also quite pricey here.

[@TheEclecticDyslexic]

@@khunoum2065 I mean I don't think that's exactly a good point. Some people don't own their home, and landlords don't want you putting in AC, so you would need to get a mobile AC, which means you need floor space. Additionally some people save up just to get their computer because they either really like computers or rely on it heavily so want the best experience they can get due to it consuming so much of their time. So, if we add in the cost of AC, the extra wattage cost starts to balloon even more, making the power consumption arguments stronger not weaker with the addition of AC. Then there are people who just want to reduce the power they use because where they live it means they are burning hydro carbons and can't afford a home battery + solar.

[@chronometer9931]

@@khunoum2065 That's a stupid argument. Poor people save up money to get things. It's common to buy a good enough CPU and pair it with a high end GPU. The more expensive the item the longer it takes to save. That's how someone could get their hands on a GPU like that and not be able to afford AC. No money left over after. Also higher power consumption also lowers over all saving power

[@Nicc93]

4080 is cheaper than 3090 here in canada

[@PFfourtynine]

I think there is more to the power consumption discussion than electricity costs. Here in Europe, most places don't have air conditioning. On a hot summer day, the house is kept cool through insulation. If you have a power hungry PC, it can quickly heat a room to become quite uncomfortable and you have little way of fixing it without AC.

[@Martial-Mat]

Excellent point. On on the converse, in winter, the heat generated by my PC negates the need for heating so long as it is above about 5-10 degrees outside.

[@Anderson_LS]

Yea I had to buy an air conditioner because of the heat from my PC. I don't have problems paying electricity bills, but the PC's heat may be a problem when it blows more than 300-400W heat.

[@kathrynck]

I have a custom made desk, with an overhang over the computer. I set it up to basically scoop up the top-exhaust above the computer case. Anyway, there is a movable baffle, depending on where I put the baffle, I can shunt the hot air either up to the ceiling (where warm air tends to 'stay' when placed there). Or I can shunt the warm air down so it exhausts at your feet under the desk. Basically it's a summer mode or winter mode. I haven't tested it in summer with a 4090 yet. But a 4090 really helps keep your toes warm in winter. With past builds in summer, I have found that it does heat up a room eventually under load. But hot air at the ceiling takes a long time to saturate a room. An open door lets it leave the room readily, pushing cooler air from outside the room in across the floor. I have never used it long enough to saturate the ceiling of a whole apartment. Although the heat has to push down to mid-wall height to get out an open window, if you'd rather keep the door closed. A small (very small) window AC unit can be a valid option too. A 5000 BTU air conditioner can counter the heat output of any PC even set to low power & "eco mode". You can find a single room AC at around 450 watts (realistically operating at about half that power). Probably only needed a few months out of the year. I kinda designed the desk to replace the need for a small window AC. It is definitely a valid concern though. I think in terms of expense you have to weigh it against the heating savings a bit, as it effectively works like a very weak space heater under load. Obviously you can open a window and only push load at night too. I have a concern is that I don't think I can run the little baby window AC now if it's needed. Because all of the plugs in this room are on the same circuit, and there's a 1500 watt max for the whole room. And between speakers, monitor, a clock, lights, and PSU losses, I don't think there's headroom (on the house wiring) for a window AC with the 4090 in load. Might have to set up an exhausting window fan, and some ducting... which would work well, but look horrible. I like how the desk has no fans (just uses the force of the case fans) & hidden ducting to dump heat at the ceiling or floor, with only barely noticeable rubber weather stripping rectangle touching the perimeter of the top of the case.

[@MidKnut]

@@kathrynck Have you got a pic of this on Reddit or anything? Sounds cool

[@frederik666]

Bruh my 1080ti heats it enough for that dont rly think u can complain ngl

[@MrMirukou]

Part 3??? Hell, i will stay here for part 4,5 and part forever. I like you guys and your content. Please don't stop with your reviews and answers.

[@AlphaIndigo]

Thanks guys for another great year, I dont usually buy hardware without watching a few of your videos first and then make an informed decision, your approach to be honest and pragmatic shines through and these Q&A sessions are a great way to fully understand why you came to those conclusions. All the Best and Merry Christmas!

[@boingkster]

Products generally don't suck... it's just the pricing that's bad. I'd buy a feature-poor card with moderate performance it was dirt cheap. I'd also buy a top tier card full of features if it represented good value. Most of the market doesn't have either end of that spectrum - it's all either terrible value or (relatively) terrible performance with a razor thin middle ground.

[@DailyCorvid]

HUB are all about value comparisons, that's why people come here I think. So they never said it's a bad card, they said it's a bad value purchase and that in standardised testing it can't beat the comparable Nvidia card. That is true. However AMD users are configuring in a more optimal way, which doesn't give the best benchmarking results but *does* give the best gaming results. It's a *value comparison* they've done here. They're saying AMD are overpriced more than the Nvidia cards are. It's an opinion game, they've got good reasons for presenting that and despite me disagreeing I still liked the video. Not everyone buys a card only for gaming, a lot of users have to configure in a more general or standard way (exactly like HUB does).

[@DragonOfTheMortalKombat]

Very true, 4080 is bad only at 1200$, launch that card for 800$ and it'll become the best 80-class card ever.

[@DailyCorvid]

@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat Exactly, it's not a bad card at all - just the price they're offering it for is very high when you see the features it lacks and you see the 4090 for a few hundred more. When prices steady, probably mid 2023 - we will see the true and more modest value of ALL of these cards. They'll be on sale on 30-40% discounts regularly. Now they're competing with the Steam Deck and the incoming Steam Deck 2. _edit_ _I am assuming here that there are many, many other people who can only afford a 4090 if they didn't get / aren't getting a console as well_ . I am saving for the Steam Deck 2 in the summer, and that's why I say they are competing for my money. They literally are - if it's too pricey I won't get it because it will mean I can't get my Steam Deck!

[@thebcwonder4850]

@@DailyCorvid the 4080 is an entire order of magnitude more powerful than the Steam Deck, they’re not competing products

[@DailyCorvid]

@@thebcwonder4850 read the comment again, I didn't say they were. I said they were competing for my money. I can't afford both a Steam Deck as well as a £1000+ GPU. --- So if they don't lower the price to something reasonable by the time I buy these things, then I will be getting another Radeon for the house and a Steam Deck to take with me. In that respect they are all competing. Not everybody is expecting parents or partners to buy these things for them. I buy all my own shit and that means I can't be paying £1000 unless I am getting the top of the line thing.

[@jackielinde7568]

I think the counter to the "If you're already at the $1,000.00 USD price point, why not spend the extra $200.00 USD and get the 4080" is, "Do we want to reward nVidia's bad behavior?" While the 7900 XT and 7900 XTX are not living up to the hype and all three cards in question are HORRIBLY PRICED, at least the price on the 7900 cards (both XT and XTX) are closer to a fair value. At that level of performance, unless you have a specific need for every ounce of computational power (Like pro tier competitive gaming or heavy duty CAD/CAM and science calculations), any one of those cards will work. Do we want to reward nVidia's bad pricing and tell them this is okay? Then buy out the stock of 4080s and watch what they do to GPU prices in the future. If you need this put into perspective, as far as what that price point is, $1,200 is around 70% of my take home pay. I have to work over a week and a half to have the money to purchase one. I make high five digits, close to six a year. It's not anything to write home about. However this is quite a bit above what most people in my area make, especially if you start factoring in bills, like food, water, power, insurance, car insurance, fuel, car maintenance, etc. Heck, the previous question asked you two to start calculating the cost to run these behemoth of cards because electricity prices are climbing. As much as it hurts me to make this statement, but Graphics Cards are a disposable commodity, where AMD and nVidia expects you to toss whatever you are currently using and chase the current model in the same way Apple does with their iPhones. One more thought. My daughter is in Cali for the holidays. Since there's no Microcenter in Arizona (next door to Cali), I gave her $1,200.00 USD to buy a new graphics card for her PC. We were looking at the 7900 XTX because next school year she will be using Solidworks as part of her degree program and a summer internship requires she have Solidworks experience. Because the 7900 XTXs weren't available, she went back a generation to a 6950 XT, picked up a power supply to run it, and still had money left over. (It's replacing a 960Ti and a 650W Corsair power supply from ten years ago.) Had she gone with the 7900 XTX, she might have had just enough to get the PSU... Maybe. And the money wouldn't have even covered the tax on a 4080, let alone given her anything to get the PSU it would have demanded. I don't think we should be rewarding either for bad pricing. Buy these cards if you ABSOLUTELY need them. But ONLY if you ABSOLUTELY need them.

[@tilburg8683]

I honestly have to disagree 7900xt is starting at 1200 here while it's barely faster than a 6950xt and really seems like a renamed 7700xt to me. Meanwhile the 4080 starts at 1350. And the xtx is all over the place but usually a few hundred more. And none of these cards should be over 700, but at least the 4080 is much better value than the 7900xt(which isn't something I thought I'd ever say) and it can actually play games with all the eye candy. When spending 1200+ you might as well get a card for that. Otherwise a used 6900xt makes much more sense maybe you lose a few% vs 7900xt and Vram but you also keep about 600 euros more in your pocket. I kinda think used Rx6000 cards make the most sense right now anyways only rtx4000 cards can really do rtx but they cost way to much. So if you only go for raster, you're not missing out much getting a 6900xt vs 7900xt(x) while spending about 30-50% of the amount rx7000 cards would cost.

[@earthtaurus5515]

@Jack Linde well said, this was my gripe with Steve's review for the 7900 XTX. The last thing we should be doing is rewarding Nvidia's behaviour and rationalising any sort of purchase of the 4080 just because the 7900 XTX and XT aren't living up to the hype. Although Steve has clarified what he meant in this video but during the review he didn't and it does come of as a recomendation for the 4080 in the context of the review. These cards only should be bought if needed. For me personally I am more than happy gaming on the second hand RX590 on the AM5 7950X + X670E crosshair picked up during black friday sales on monthly payments as I need the cores than graphically oomph but I will need a gpu for cad / animation soon (so I can teach my sibling). Had to build this rig earlier than anticipated as my sibling needed a PC for uni (illustration and animation) as Initially it was scheduled for Jan 2023. Currently my old RX480 is in the AM4 rig I put together using my previous AM4 components with an upgraded CPU 5600X using 32gigs B-die 4x8GB, new PSU and my old X570 aorus elite. I did pick up a RX 6750XT - MSI Gaming Trio at just over MSRP at £475 for a PC build I have in the works and at the time of purchase there were 6650 SKUs going for more than some 6750XT skus. If prices go nuts in 2023 and the family member changes their mind that will either to got my sibling or I'll pick up a AIB model 7900 XTX or later model. The 6950XTs still going for around a grand except one SKU which is around £780 but at that price might as well spend abit more an get a 7900 XTX for example. Once bought that's my sibling set for a long while - at least 5 years and all that will be needed is a just upgrading the CPU to the 5950X + Monitor to 4K. Whereas for me, once I've got my GPU be it RDNA+ or 4 that's me done for a decade or more.

[@TwiztedJugallo]

Dude everybody knows the 7900XT is a renamed 7800XT. It isn't worth more than $700 at best with the current state of drivers and hotspot temps hitting 110C, the 6950XT is a much better option at the moment.

[@BigHeadClan]

Agreed we shouldn’t be buying any of these cards at the currently listed prices. Both NVIDIA and to a slightly lesser extent AMD are nuts with this pricing.

[@WickedRibbon]

Well said. Percentage-wise, spending an extra $200 is a lot.

[@shadowred1980]

Steve \ Tim, thank you for all the testing you do for us. Another UK person here giving a wave. Have a good holiday season. :)

[@davidlandrum]

Night Shift Gang we up!

[@Nos2113]

Heyoooo

[@TheJutka1]

Day shift gang!

[@rareraven]

12:00 here, dunno wut Yu talkn bout

[@mitchellcowan8558]

100%. Agonising over a 7900XTX reference buy here

[@der.Schtefan]

Power consumption mainly translates into cooling needs. I managed to get my 5900x with 3070 gpu absolutely silent (Noctua). I am very sensitive to fan noise, it annoys the hell out of me, and a lot of power consumption makes it harder to cool it absolutely silently.

[@Axeiaa]

Not that many people care about getting their PC absolutely silent though, most will be around enough ambient noise to drown out 'quiet enough' PCs. The power bill is something most of Europe is paying close attention to at the moment, everyone I know is taking power draw of EVERYTHING into account now and every monthly bill is a reminder *not* to buy a graphics card that pulls 400W+. The high end graphics card are now approaching levels of devices we all know we should use as little as possible if we don't want a really high power bill. To put it in perspective - the RTX 4090 uses the same amount of power whilst gaming as a fairly average washing machine or about half to a third that of a microwave, electric kettle or an oven or deep fryer on a low settings. Considering I definitely game for periods 2/3 times longer than I use those devices that adds up like crazy. Living fairly close to a main road in a city I don't need my PC to be that quiet. Hell even the RTX 4090's can be pretty darn quiet because all of that power draw comes from a fairly large die with a humongous heatsink and huge fans.

[@SMGJohn]

LOL you live in a bunker or something?

[@pauloa.7609]

@@Axeiaa you can underclock the 4090 by a pretty good amount before starting losing a lot of performance and the difference on power consumption its unreal. The 4090 its a very cool piece of tech for what it can do even when capped in power draw.

[@joncarter3761]

The 7900xtx should have been an $800 card, if Nvidia released the 4080 at $1000 it would have. Both companies are to blame and completely out of touch with the market conditions atm, the idiots still think we're in 2021 with the money printers going full speed...

[@zwenkwiel816]

Exactly, all these AMD fanboys pretending like it's good guy AMD when really they have to price slightly below Nvidia or everyone would just get Nvidia instead.... It's just business

[@charlesdovideo]

@@zwenkwiel816 naw, blame greedy consumers for buying the cards at ANY price... if this card released at 800 it would NEVER be in stock.

[@anhiirr]

@@zwenkwiel816 fanboys QUICKLY forgot how bad the 5700xt was for many owners that had major cooling issues with VRM/Vram....aibs with SHODDY mounting pressure....countless RMA nightmare stories in threads. Thousands of HP omens with OE 5700xts in tiny mid atx chassis with 1 chassis fan....on a box cooled zen2 cpu...SMDH ticking time bombs. Same fanboys that CRIED "BAHH NO HBM2" on the 5700xt and future big navi etc skus.....as if THEY ever owned an HBM2(talking fanboy cheerleaders) that flaunt stats/tech numbers that never owned some of these gpu/tuned them/benchmarked them to score them out to check sustained clocks/voltage/temps etc....i mean i owned 3 just to use/flip/tune/get familiar with in a short window pre 2020 gpu launches....and yeah at 400$ it wasnt a bad deal....esp if you knew how to UV and check to make sure asus gpu tweak didnt change fancurve back to stock 0 rpm SUPER hot mode....yet the subsequent releases by AMD including the 6500/6400 options....have me realizing theyre just cashing in on the monopoly and are now ACTIVE motivators to the "problem" as if fanboy cheerleaders can afford a 1000$ gpu flaunting the "Stats" off the box no different than an nvidia fanboy....considering ive owned a 7990....and a 2080ti...prior to selling the 2080ti for multiple used 5700xts....which i then sold for 2x 3070s.....im not a "fanboy" lmfao just go for the best frame yield per $...and i was grabbing those 5700xts for like 300$ a pop after selling the 2080ti for 1k. I played the fanboys of Both sides NGL.

[@zwenkwiel816]

@@anhiirr never had any of those issues with my 5700 XT but the drivers were the worst so I sold it and got a 3080 instead. luckily prices were still high when I sold it so I got exactly what I paid for it.

[@TheEclecticDyslexic]

Hard disagree on the power consumption point. It isn't just about the cost, it is also about the amount of heat being pumped into my room and the noise the fans will inevitably make. So the power costs are a big part but hardly the only part. If we start looking at the cost of operation though, depending on your region an extra 100 watts can quickly make the price difference between two nearly identical cards very stark. Moreover, if we talk about heat being dumped into the room we also factor in AC costs... Or in my case the reality of not having AC.

[@jose131991]

Yes I think they had a VERY removed viewpoint when it comes to the power bill factor. People still dont want to pay a lot more on the power bill even if they can afford it or afford a HALO card. Corporations need to work on efficiency as they do raw performance because it’ll only get worse and there has to be a breaking point some time.

[@Druac]

Thanks for a great year…finally building my new 13th gen system now…just started on Friday. Tweaking and testing today.

[@igavinwood]

Great to hear you discuss Ray Tracing and Lumen tech. I'm still amused by the number of people that think nVidia created Ray Tracing and shocked at how Intel dropped the ball so early. However with the years of experiance you have in reviewing hardware, further discussion on the tech space and some considered speculation on hardware capabilities would be really uselful and interesting (possibly a special with a guest). Probably not for this gen of CPU/GPU, but future gens especially when considering the new monitors that are coming to market. Afterall, nobody games on a GPU, they need the whole pc and IO to do that. It would be more a fun piece of content with ideas and wish lists.

[@markhackett2302]

NVidia did create THEIR RT tech. Mostly to sell compute core tech to gamers. What you are forgetting is that there is a HUGE difference between, say, Pantone, a closed Adobe only closed box product you have to pay to license if you aren't Adobe (so similar to NVidia RT) and MP3s, which were released as an open standard. Even within open standards, you can get MinecraftRT which is written to NVidia advantage, or Forbidden West which is written to AMD advantage, it doesn't make the card faster, it is just a game optimised to run on one side's tech.

[@georgwarhead2801]

@@markhackett2302 i think you missunderstood the comment, many people realy think Nvidia invented RT ( and not just RTX like they call it) and everyone else is just coping it. nivida just invented there way to do it, like amd invented it on there hardware and intel on there´s

[@igavinwood]

@@georgwarhead2801 Yep. You got the point. nVidia have been very, very good at marketing. Lots of people don't understand that the software that started RT goes all the way back to the 70s. nVidia didn't exist before iirc 93. Intel had one of the leading lights in the early days, I think a German PhD student, that they hired, but never really pushed the tech. Point being that the RT software has been developed by many people over decades as @Mark Hackett pointed to some examples. Interesting changes to come I think, with new chiplet design.

[@yellowflash511]

Yes "OMG RTX WOWOWOWOEEE"

[@Aki_Lesbrinco]

@@markhackett2302 but isn't obvious that Nvidia would engineer their own hardware to accelerate rt instructions? The same as AMD and Intel have done for their own cards, but in the end they just run rt code. This is the same as Toyota engineering their own engines instead of using Ford's engines. They are two proprietary versions that do the same thing , power and propel a car.

[@jycannel4626]

Great video as always guys! For me personally despite the fact that I own a 7900xtx idle power consumption affects me quite a lot as I live off grid and generate my own power. I may just be an edge case though 😂

[@DailyCorvid]

You've got a strange setup then my friend, if you want to live off-grid then using Windows, Steam, and companies like Nvidia Intel and AMD probably isn't what you'd ideally choose. Do you have a mart phone as well? For me off grid life requires giving up most of your technology products (iot for instance isn't off grid).

[@jycannel4626]

@@DailyCorvid I roughly have 5kw of solar panels and 11kwh of batteries (planning on doubling next year) We live in the mountains and drink our water from a well with a pump at the bottom which feeds into our own water filtration plant we made. Internet is with 4g 😂. At the end of the day I like to kick back and use my pc for VR so other alternatives are not really viable for me. Idle power draw is useful when you want to do some work on your pc and if we have loads of little things drawing current all the time it adds up. And our inverter is quite small as it’s only 3kw and I don’t want to be cutting the electric when the family are trying to do something 😂😅

[@DailyCorvid]

@@jycannel4626 That sounds like a sick little set up you have built. I see you didn't mean grid invisible lol you just mean you don't need outside help for power or water (generally). I would love to have a good look around your place I bet there are tonnes of interesting device setups and such there to see. You should do some videos on a KZbin channel about it. You might not get many viewers at first, but over time I bet you would. I have 22 subscribers lol because I don't make videos for a mass audience, if I am asked to do something like this I might well think it's a fun idea. I am not off-grid though that sounds like it would be amazing, my thing is I build computers and gaming devices and give them away as presents mostly. And my videos are all about things I learn or that interest me during that building. I also have solar panels on my house, though the Government had them installed and operate them as I am in a block. So our block pays barely any energy bills! They're trying to do what you have accomplished but they're a ways behind you seemingly :)

[@jycannel4626]

@@DailyCorvid haha make that 23 now buddy! For me it’s an absolute necessity as there are no water or power lines within a 10km radius. To be honest I did think about recording the process as I moved from the city life bought this house abandoned in the countryside mountains and did all the water and electric my self, as I always love a challenge. Now we are entirely self reliant and that’s such a good feeling. Dispute all of this being able to use a high end pc like everyone else despite the out of the ordinary situation is awesome.

[@vinylSummer]

@@jycannel4626 would love to see a video about your place!!!

[@gucky4717]

I live in Germany and we have some crazy powerprices right now with upto 40-50cent/kwh. If you game for 4 hours daily (or have high idle power consumption) a 80W difference means more then 50€ cost yearly. And that is easily the price difference between a 7900XTX and 4080. If you just use your PC for simple tasks, a low-end or high-end GPU shouldn't make a difference on power consumption. And actually my 4090 does have a very similar power consumption on idle/low-load like the GT 1030. The new RX7900 on the other hand goes crazy... The only way to save more is to use an iGPU. In Summer a 100W difference is also important, since that little bit can heat the room a couple degrees, depending on how much you game.

[@anotherhuman9974]

Will the next Gen get bundled with a solar panel battery pac to offset the power cost 😂

[@THU31]

I would need solar-powered air conditioning, because 300+ W cards are unusable for me in the summer.

[@DragonOfTheMortalKombat]

They will come with nuclear fusion reactors and a crane will come to install it in your house. Make sure your house is large enough or you'll have to live inside the graphics card with scorching hot aluminium melting temperatures.

[@fowlmouth824]

My Vega56, after about 2 years of fettling, was up to about 30% increase, depending on how warm the room was. But you're right, the real life performance gains were very situational, and it was a pain in the arse to keep stable. Was great fun though!

[@LeoDavidson]

Another aspect to power is UPS capacity. The electricity here is unreliable, so I have to use a UPS, which then limits the total power draw of my PC, similar to the PSU limiting things. You can get larger ones but the options are limited and prices very high after a certain point.

[@DailyCorvid]

Why don't you just have a backup battery rather than a the UPS when you don't need it? When you say unreliable, if you're seeing short frequent surges and power cuts - rather than occasional longer ones, then UPS isn't the thing do use. Get a generator that runs off of fuel instead, along with a chargeable battery and just use the battery as your UPS. You just have a switch set up so that it recognises when power is too low to keep your system fully juiced and sends additional power from the battery. So you will never dip or lose any power provided your battery is charged. The generator is to recharge it where you do have longer powercuts. It's still quite pricey to arrange this, but if you really need fully uninterrupted power then that's a god route to achieve it. It's a custom UPS rather than the one you bought which seems like it's not a reliable model. That's what it should do, filter and convert your AC wall power to DC computer power but isn't. The custom switch detects power loss and by the time it hits your PC can add the required battery juice to keep power on.

[@LeoDavidson]

@@DailyCorvid Yeah, or I could just keep using a UPS.

[@ChrisPBacon9]

@@LeoDavidson i like how he gave you a more complex, expensive and inconvenient option to solve a simple problem lol

[@blkspade23]

A good UPS should already be conditioning the power. However, it's not intended for you to be relying on it under full load. It should give you enough runtime to properly shutdown and not incur data loss or corruption. For example. My PC has a 850W PSU, but my 1350VA UPS is only 810w. I'm rarely ever above 560w in gaming. I have to run furmark and Cinebench at the same time to simulate "full load" to hit 615w, and the UPS would maintain that for 4.2min in a power outage. Not realistic typical use. That's with a 5950X, 6800XT, 2 SSDs and 4 7200RPM HDDs. If I needed some data to be saved over my 10Gbe to the NAS before the battery died, I'm probably not going to have it anywhere near as loaded. In fact, just doing that is only 189-194w for 19-21mins.

[@LeoDavidson]

@@blkspade23 "It should give you enough runtime to properly shutdown and not incur data loss or corruption." Exactly what I am using it for. Powercuts here are usually brief (occasionally longer), and often mean I have to go reset a breaker. If I'm in the middle of a game and it's using more power than the UPS can output on its own, the PC is just going to turn off if there's even a half second outage, making the UPS useless in that scenario (other than for smoothing, of course). Mine will also start beeping/screaming very loudly if it is overloaded, even if there is no interruption to the mains power, to warn that it is no longer functioning as a backup under the high load. (Also, if i understand it correctly, indicating it isn't smoothing the power anymore as that's done by running everything off the battery while charging the battery from the mains at the same time, and it can't do that if you're over capacity, instead switching to a direct mains feed.)

[@mrm7]

I mean not the most important thing for this type of content but really well done with the lighting and camera work. You guys look so crispy.

[@grimarchangel]

110% eliminate pop in vs reflections. reflections are great, but ive never ever not ever had a pop in texture or asset break my immersion. a slightly bad reflection most of the time i wont notice.

[@h4ckerhunter]

1:19 im from germany. bought a 7900xtx at launch day for 1,2k. then saw some reviews and power consumption esp. in idle was a big factor for me. So i bought a 4080 for 1,35k :D

[@Silentstormz069]

Yeah i disagree, here in australia anyway. The 7900xtx was $500 cheaper than any 4080 i could find. which is a huge difference. Thats almost an entire weeks worth of pay. So 100% better bang for buck.

[@volvot6rdesignawd702]

I have bought red devils for 3 gens now 5700xt 6900xt and now the 7900xtx .. so it was almost a no brainer buying the 7900xtx red devil OC LE at $1979aud over the 4080 16gb when like you said at the time were from $400 to the crazy rog strix OC at 1000aud extra !! I will buy a 4080ti just because i havent owned a Nvidia card for a long time and while im happy with my purchase i see some bad sides of the 7900xtx in general not really the red devil version if that makes sense !!

[@tilburg8683]

Where I live the 4080 is cheaper by a few hundred. But neither card should be over 700tbh, and the 4080 is cheapest at 1350. Meanwhile 7900xt starts at 1200 its pretty bad here.

[@Hezzadude12]

Yeah and plus the 7900 XTX is sold out everywhere here and 4080s are available anywhere, so a lot of Aussie tech enthusiasts clearly agree with you too

[@volvot6rdesignawd702]

@@tilburg8683 i love these comments of people that " no offence " live in the past .. Inflation happens the pandemic happened and agreed that they are creeping up and up every generation but the pandemic showed us people will pay anything for shit they want .. same philosophy behind why there are no more hard core games made for hard core players because casuals make companies more money is why alot of stuff is pay to win !! The argument could be made if AMD could have matched or beaten the 4090 RT and raster would it have still cost $1000 ?? my answer is hell no it would have been 1400 to 1500usd no doubt !!

[@SMGJohn]

So? Bleeding edge is so important to you Braden, you should just starve for a week and buy 4090, I mean why not, PC more important to you than eating a good meal so go for it.

[@FeisarX]

I've read the reference model reviews ... I realize some people win a silicon lottery... But my XTX is great. Far less (usually not perceptual) coil whine than 6000. Undervolts INCREDIBLE. This is an entirely new architecture and doesn't behave like previous cards. When reviewers tried to push it the same way they didn't get the same results. Avoid power slider. Avoid even playing with RAM. Pop the voltage down to 1070 and the max only to 3300. The card will put the clocks where they need to be. Unreal 5.1 Fortnite does 3000 MHz at max settings. Benchmarks may only go to 2700. Fans under 2400 rpm and are quiet and smooth sounding. The card is great. Just don't expect to OC it exactly as you would a 6000 series card.

[@Loundsify]

That's awesome, what model of the XTX do you have?

[@mmshakeel]

Great content as always. Are you planning to retest Intel Arc GPUs as they have updated their drivers for a number of times now?

[@draeh]

24:37 Loved the 'pop-in' zoom change just after discussing pop-in.

[@PredalienatorX]

When are we gonna get the Dyson x HUB collab? Gaming vacuums are an untapped market.

[@cylonred8902]

I am still holding on to my 1080 - not playing current AAA games right now - I have a tendency to play them 2-3 years later. The 40xx series is so much better on power consumption that I really would like to wait for it, just for the fact of not wanting to buy a new PSU for a video card (though the 3070ti might just be ok for my machine) . Only thing left in the 30xx series remotely "worth" buying is the 3070ti but those prices are still at, what I consider, insane prices - $760+ to nearly $1K US for a card that is a generation old. $500 is about right, but to be at that cost - the 40xx should be at $1K max. Its not like I don't have the money - I do - but at this point in time I think I would rather take the $1400 and buy a used, but really, really good, camera lends for my DLSR than spend it on a video card. Technically - I really need to update my entire PC - it has been running for over 6 years now and closer to 7 I think (if not more).

[@zwenkwiel816]

1400 bucks would buy a pretty good used pc though, could probably get you a 3080 or something...

[@cylonred8902]

@@zwenkwiel816 Camera lens would still be worth far more than a 3080 after 3 years, and I can do a lot more with the lens . I could get a 3080 from Microcenter (10 gig) for $779 but that should be about $600 considering it is a generation old and only a 10 gig card. Still far more inefficient than a 4080 and the 4080 has a decent boost in performance but not for $1100+. A case could be made for $800 or $850 and I could probably swallow that but not for the current prices.

[@zwenkwiel816]

@@cylonred8902 hey if you're gonna look at gaming as an investment you'll always lose in the long run, shit only costs money XD I'm just saying if 1400 is your budget and you need/want a new PC right now you could do a lot worse than a used PC with a 3080 or something, would probably last you for years (and would probably have money to spare) if you dont really need it though you might be better off waiting cuz everything's still pretty expensive. (though with these prices we might be looking at $800 4080's and $1200 5080's 2 years from now....)

[@cylonred8902]

@@zwenkwiel816 PCs/gaming are never an investment and I build my own. 3070 Ti is all I have been and usually 3060's in $1400 PCs. I get a lot more (utility) out of the lens then I will from gaming with a $1200 GPU.

[@cromefire_]

Have to disagree on power consumption, depending on how much you play, you could maybe pay basically the cards price again over it's life time, just in power, at that point you have to bake it into the buying price. And that alone might make a 4080 more attractive than an XTX sadly, with AMD being less efficient this gen. I mean my XTX (that I got despite this just because NVIDIA make using Linux even in non-gaming a pain) can heat an entire basement room while it's winter, that's pretty crazy. But if have a 4K TV and/or Monitor you what to play on and use to it's full extend it's also hard to recommend low end cards... I mean just because look at the price of power doesn't mean that I want to sacrifice all visuals for that, there's a gradient that would definitely not let me pickup a 4090, but makes a 4080 and XTX desireable (for windows).

[@georgwarhead2801]

thats BS, even if you play 10hrs a day for 5years you are looking at a 912kw/h difference between a 4080 and a 7900xtx...thats after 18000 hrs of gaming, and if a 7900xtx can heat your basement room, a 4080 can it too... its not that the gpu itself is less efficient on the 7900xtx vs a 4080, the 7900xtx has just 4 more memory modules on the card wich adds up to ~60 watts more boardpower, wich is basecly the difference between a 4080 and a 7900xtx under load

[@cromefire_]

@@georgwarhead2801 First of all I can see where the power usage is going, but that's not changing the outcome, it's using more power for the same performance. And secondly a 912kw/h difference is pretty huge, depending on how bad it is you'd pay 273.6€ (30ct) and 492.48€ (54ct) for that right now in Germany. And that's counting on the price not going up any further and without inflation. If the government's cap on pricing where to get through and work correctly that's still 364.8€ (40ct is the number currently floating around I think), makes the 4080 look better even if you play half a much, if you really keep it that long. If you know you only use it 2h per day and upgrade in 2 years it pretty irrelevant of course...

[@MultiPochop]

@@cromefire_ You pay 300 € more for a 4080 and less performance. So it makes the 4080 even more expensive, depends on what you play. When i play COD and the XTX reaches 320 fps and cap it at 240 fps i have more powerful card that takes a lot less power than a 4080@ COD(that bearly reaches 230fps@full power) The 7900XTX takes avg 40 watts more power than a !SLOWER and more expensive! 4080. I find it interesting how Nvidia fanatics proclaim holy grail over 40 w less consumption, whereas this was not an issue with the RTX30 generation 100 watt more, compared to AMD.

[@yellowflash511]

It's hilarious that people have suddenly have a problem with power consumption but didn't have for years when Nvidia was way more inefficient and required a lot more power. Immediately previous gen for example.

[@cromefire_]

@@yellowflash511 It's called war in Ukraine and more than doubled power pricing...

[@dwahnaslowdown8887]

I recently replaced a 5800x with a 5800x3D. The x3D runs roughly 20C hotter while gaming with a 360 AIO. I'm sure that the CPU is fine, but the fan noise is intrusive. I'd like to rein those temperatures back down. If under-volting or under-clocking is effective (without noticeable performance degradation), then I'd like to learn how. A problem that I have with modern processors is that there are SO MANY settings in bios. I don't know what the acronyms mean or what to adjust. Most of the tutorials I've found seem to be written to people who already know how and are just seeking affirmation. Long gone are the days when you just bump the FSB up a hundred mhz and run it. Am I too far behind to catch up?

[@qlum]

In terms of overclocking I still remember amd's previous 7000 series, the hd 7950 was an overclocking beast with the core clock going from 800mhz to 1.1ghz, that really helped the card to last.

[@loco1217]

yes i had a msi r7950 boost edition what a great card

[@Loundsify]

The HD7000 series was great and much better than the GTX 600 line up.

[@kadmus78]

Interesting video which is no surprise, coming from you. Looking forward to Part 3. I keep watching that subscribers counter... Hope to see it tipping over one million soon.

[@3SoccerPlayer3]

This is my problem with reviews. For $900 you get this. But for $100 more you get a much superior product. But for $200 more you get a clearly superior product. This is what I've heard from others as well. For $400 more you can get a obviously clearly superior product in this product. So it ends up you pay $700 more for the best product and there is no recourse for people who's budget ends at a certain point.

[@theloniuspunk383]

This is the exact method used to make you buy a large coffee or fries lol

[@Doughillman]

Uh, sure there is. You're not REQUIRED to buy the more expensive product. That's the reason they do benchmarks. You read/watch them, then YOU decide what you want and what you're willing to spend. If you let a review convince you to spend several hundred more dollars that you had planned, that's on your self-control and fear of missing out.

[@Lenderz]

With regards to energy prices to give some context, I’m in the U.K., I’ve purchased x80 tier GPUs for over a decade and would be considered ‘better off’ but my energy prices have increased over 400% since the beginning on 2021. A small price to pay considering the reasons, but this does make me think about power on everything I’m buying.

[@Loundsify]

400% increase is mental, I think food bills have easily gone up 25% in last year too, and don't forget the price of petrol and diesel. 10% inflation is such a bizarre figure because in the real world inflation feels much higher.

[@chrisbrookshire861]

if you shop in the $750-$1000 range for a new in-stock card you're either looking at 30 series Nvidia or current gen AMD. I'm even seeing some 6950xt's priced over the 7900xt. The idea of telling someone to increase their budget by 33% percent for looking at the 7900xt seems pretty farcical.

[@YugenRaven]

I very much agree!! All these reviews are just stating a product is bad "if you are gonna be spending XXXX amount of $$$ might as well spend abit more $$ for this next product up on the stack.." how about looking at the product for what it is compared to previous & current generation and the 2nd hand market or spend abit less $ for this slightly older GPU?? Maybe I havent watch enough reviews but so far this is what I am getting. Like STHAPPH askin me to spend more moneehh pleasee T.T

[@kia8077]

You guys are so passionate but also seem like you really need a break! Please take care of yourselves, enjoy the holidays, and start posting again when you're ready!

[@mcwolfbeast]

I think what the first question wanted to address is a total cost of ownership of power hungry hardware (current gen had a massive jump overall in the power used). Owning computing hardware you're running most of the day costs considerably more than the initial purchase price so even if you buy high-end, it's still a concern (I would have as well).

[@tonymorris4335]

This is just not true. The difference in cost at 8 hours of max use between a 350w GPU and 450w gpu at .6 USD per kWh is 16 dollars a month or so. I guess if you use your GPU for 8 years maybe but most won't.

[@bornonthebattlefront4883]

Power consumption would have to be 2x the current usage And the price of GPUs would have to go down for this to be true A 500 watt PC being ran for 8 hours a day every day would only cost 190$ a year at 13 cents a kilowatt hour Meaning it would take a 500 watt gpu, 150 watt cpu, and like 100 watts dedicated to everything else, and all those parts to cost 1/2 what they currently do for it to even be remotely close

[@Icureditwithmybrain]

Exactly!

[@genuran-7559]

Just choose your components according to perf/consumption ratio, like the 7700X/4080 combo for me lowered my last gen 12700K/3080 by a whopping 80-100w and a 65% gain in perf though

[@aaron5809]

@@bornonthebattlefront4883 More like 40 cents in Germany and other European countries. Speak for yourself

[@ffsireallydontcare]

To put idle power consumption into perspective, it does matter for high end hardware. Sometimes some creatives need the high power capabilities of top tier hardware to be able to crank out content in the shortest time possible, but that may only be a small fraction of the overall system's use time. Most of the time the system will be in low power mode writing emails, documents or doing 3d modeling in low complexity mode. This is where idle power consumption is an issue, and understanding the hardware's min/max requirements may determine whether, for example, a second low power email/document system would be a better use of funds (rather than paying the power company).

[@deinmitbewohner]

I really enjoy your review of the different vacuum heads for desk cleaning. You did go into detail about the different sizes and did a very good comparison. I would like to ask if you can do an in depth overclocking/undervolting video of the different AIB models. Is it possible to gain more than 8-10% uplift in performance? Maybe even a 25% gain to the next tier models is possible? Thx, love your content.🙃

[@luminous2585]

I too would love to see how much performance you can get out of overclocking/undervolting your vacuum cleaner. Getting 10% more dust uplift performance would be sick.

[@sammiller6631]

You enjoyed their review of the different vacuum heads for desk cleaning but did you catch the review on what's best to clean monitors?🙃

[@luminous2585]

@@sammiller6631 frankly, that's probably something I should watch. I've been struggling with keeping my monitors clean in the past.

[@deinmitbewohner]

@@sammiller6631 wait, you say i don't have to buy a new monitor every time? Usually i turn gamma to the max and once they so dusty i have to buy a new one. 😅

[@MrBoombast64]

And your daughter is pleased with her new PC? Good content as always mates. Happy New year for you all!

[@martinhogan9745]

I really want to know how AIB cards handle the weird fan and coil whine noise issues on the reference 7900XTX. Those are the real reasons I am not getting one, but if the AIBs solve that I might pick one up in the spring.

[@parahaps]

For what it's worth, I have no noticeable coil whine on my reference xtx, and the other people I personally have talked to with xtxes also do not have coil whine.

[@notyourbusiness4254]

I have a limited edition red devil and sometimes on really demanding games you can hear it a bit, other times you can hear it a lot. It's kinda weird

[@gregorellis4767]

"A whirlwind the last few months".That makes two of us,brother.

[@Sakosaga]

I kinda agree with Steve here. If you're concerned about saving every penny on your power bill you probably don't even want to game on a desktop.. you want a console or a laptop or steam it to cloud servers. If you can afford a high end product there Is no point in constantly thinking about the power bill because you probably can afford it , but if you can't then your priorities are definitely not right.

[@tilburg8683]

I don't think that's a good point. If you get the new I3 with a 6700xt you can use much less than a laptop while getting much better performance. 6700xt can run at 130w without losing any real performance and the I3 stock basically uses now power and you could also try to undervolt it. It can run a fair amount of games at 20w extreme settings 60fps. Meanwhile a laptop cpu will use 45 for far worse performance. Maybe if you could also tweak it that wouldn't be the case, but laptops don't really allow tweaking. In fairness the 6700xt is amazing. Far better than anything amd could hope to release this gen, but it is still a possibility and it's weak point is probably the 12gigs of Vram which should mostly be enough for 2k mid-ultra. Maybe at extreme its a issue in some games. But you'll usually have like 30-45fps at that point anyways.

[@Sakosaga]

@@tilburg8683 bro, gaming laptop consumes less than 300 watts a 6700 XT TDP is 230 watts lmao. You're not consuming much less. The gaming laptop also runs on battery life. I get you love the 6700XT but your example doesn't make sense here because you have to consider the entire computers power consumption not just the GPU And I'll one up you still. apple silicone MacBooks have the potential to get closer to 3080 class performance, and high end I7/I9 IPC consuming less than 80 watts. IF APPLE actually went open sourced, allowed Vulkan support and focused on optimization for gaming drivers, they would destroy the market. And consuming far less power and giving amazing performance for the money. And there is no way in hell you cut 100 watts and think you have almost the same performance. You're probably loosing 20%-30% of your actual performance. Or you can overclock it and gain more performance. Laptops let you change the TDP of the GPUs and CPUs with software or in bios for ALOT of the higher end ones. Even mid tier ultra books let you with the correct software now a days. And I'll still one up you with another edit kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXSXqItrZ52Xgrs Consumes less than 200 watts and just the 3080 laptop. Closer to 150

[@Yoshimatsu414]

Really try getting the most out of the 7900XTX OC please lol. Because I've definitely been seeing people get up to 20% more performance out of the 7900XTX wit 3.2GHz in a different games, Cyberpunk is one of them. One of them mentioned it hit about 450w. Really would like to see an experienced reviewer confirm this.

[@janovmi2]

regarding the eletricity prices ... i myself have high end computer BUT i still realy care about power consumption idle/low since im using this computer not only for work/school but also as my personal PC (videos, older games etc),... even got titanium rated PSU to be as efficient as possible

[@KillerKermie]

Loved the mention of: yeah love to review if they stop releasing stuff. Things are going wild right now, good luck in your endeavors!!

[@crylune]

I care about electricity bills and power efficiency which is why I bought the 4090. Laugh all you want but this is one of the most efficient cards released for the performance. Especially if you undervolt, you lose barely any performance for 100+ watt reduction. It uses 280W in games and the fans on it don't even begin spinning. I love it. The XTX would not have given me this satisfaction and efficiency.

[@SirKakalaCh]

I wanted to buy that thing but the size of it... that cooler is outrageous, otherwise you are right on it, you did what I dreamed of :D enjoy that beast of a card

[@SparkyEEnh]

RTX4080 better than 7900XTX in most cases? Hmm... other reviewers appear to have differing opinions on this comparison. Wondering if there is a test setup delta to explain this?

[@InternationalNathan]

I put an air filter in my office and the dust accumulation is like 99% reduced. I used to have to wipe my desktop near daily now its a once a week at most and theres not nearly as much

[@DailyCorvid]

I have an HVAC in my study for smoking weed underneath lol it is the same, keeps the dust very minimal. My computers and in fact my house would be a dust trap without it.

[@slackra3400]

What filter do you use?

[@DailyCorvid]

@@slackra3400 me? H13 HEPA's, since I have slightly lowered immunity generally I tend to stick with those, and then I have a dust filtered extractor in the hallway. It's the cleanest I can get my air without ruining the place with ozone.

[@slackra3400]

@@DailyCorvid I mean, was replying to Nathan but all good haha. Merry Christmas mate.

[@DailyCorvid]

Lol yeah I couldn't tell since it was after me and I replied when it appeared; but then I remembered it was the thread question as well. Merry Christmas to you to, and your family. We had a great time here, my lot I have them pre-programmed that Christmas is the best day ever :D

[@IrocZIV]

Power usage is a good measure of heat output. Knowing how much heat a GPU/CPU puts out is pretty important. My room runs 10 degrees warmer than the rest of the house. Nice in the winter, terrible in the summer.

[@carlkidd752]

The 7900XTX at $1000 is a better value than the 6900XT at 1000. Both cards should be cheaper and will be if consumers vote smartly with their wallets. The same goes for NVIDIAs GPUs. Amazingly with the current economic situation, consumers are still not buying "smart". I really hope that scalpers choke on their greed. My EVGA 1080Ti FTW3 has to of been my best GPU purchase ever. It runs the 2 games I mostly play at 4K with no issues (Elder Scrolls and GW2). No, I could care less about ray tracing, if the game is not "fun" who gives a flying **** how much "eye candy" it has?

[@SirCrest]

I enjoy these Q&A's. Nice change of pace.

[@TheReferrer72]

The 7900XTX does not need saving.

[@rENEGADE666JEDI]

but it's not available, in my country (pl) you can't buy good versions like tuf or nitro+ 😔

[@iankovac1878]

3:04am and I am never going to sleep lol. Thank You both for so much good content :)

[@fugehdehyou]

Xtx = $1950 AUD, 4080 = $2495 Xtx is definitely better value by every metric. Don’t care about skid mark tracing or direct turd super sampling

[@Loundsify]

25% more geez. The 4080 is poor value.

[@dukejukem413]

0:42 is still an issue on 13th gen? i know theyre the same socket but since 13th gen wasnt mentioned i have to ask.

[@Linets.]

I personally tested phasmofobia with 3060ti all maxed out but like fog on medium 90 fps limit it took 180w I think it was then tested with 100w limit and stays lot over 200 fps with WAY less power so started using lot that 100w limit it only took like my 146 fps on apex to 130sh so 100w save for that is huge did it to my sisters 3060ti too and its 200w savings each hour we play

[@IRQ1Conflict]

Thanks to whomever asked the 5800x3d question and thanks to Steve for breaking that down. I only have a 1440p monitor so I suppose the 4080 or Radeon 7900xtx would be the best options for me.

[@ProtossOP]

Question was “what gpu would you pair with 5800x3d?” The answer was “you should pair 4090 with something faster than 5800x3d” I don’t think you should thank Steve there.

[@perfectdiversion]

Apart from RT performance i dont see much of a problem with the 7900XTX now and in typical AMD fashion, the drivers will help the architecture mature even more. I have more gains in the latest AMD driver for my 6900XT (hopefully it fucking remains stable) LOL

[@santiagoeltoma5122]

I have 1000+ to go for a graphics card, i will go with nvidia just because amd drivers are bad in my, little, experience

[@perfectdiversion]

@@santiagoeltoma5122 yeah I have had a hell of a time with amd drivers the past few months

[@grumpyratt2163]

Never really had any issues with and drivers. Maybe it's a 6900xt thing I can only speak from using mid tier cards from AMD.

[@samgoff5289]

Literally every generation the crazies say "you can overclock the aib cards really high" then when they release and that doesn't happen "the drivers will be fine wine" and just like this channel showed Nvidia increased performance with drivers even more but somehow it gets said every single generation

[@JathraDH]

The main issue is the power use and some of its power handling performance. As soon as you push it past stock at all its pulling 400+ watts for pretty dismal performance for the wattage. The reason it isn't competing with the 4090 is because if they unlocked its full potential it would be pulling 600w and still far short of 4090 performance. It is still a great card for 1440p high refresh or 4k if you don't want RT, but considering it uses about 100w more on average than the 4080, if your power price is high the 4080 will actually be cheaper long term due to its power inefficiency.

[@jthiel0711]

My PC is approaching 8 years old and I picked the worse time to start building a new rig. Everything is so much more expensive then what I remember it being in 2015 lol

[@HDRPC]

Sir i got brand new gigabyte rtx 4080 eagle for 1030 dollars or ₹105000 including 18% gst. Offer was all gigabyte 4080 owner will get ₹20k Amazon gift card in black friday sale. It is even cheaper than 7900xtx in India. This is the best Christmas gift for me.

[@cin2110]

Nice deal especially in 3rd world countries like yours and mine congrats on your purchase

[@HDRPC]

@@cin2110 thanks bro, this offer for India exclusive only. Msrp for 4080 FE is ₹119000 or 1199 dollars Msrp was of my gigabyte 4080 Eagle was ₹135000 or 1350 dollars. This was 2 days sale. Now again it is selling for ₹135000. Many more deal for 4080. Inno 3d is giving free corsair gaming chair with their 4080 cards in India and zotac 4080 are under msrp compared to FE.

[@0xCAFEF00D]

1:35 Low load makes more sense than idle. Because at idle you should just sleep your pc if you're concerned.

[@scooper1818]

Power does matter at. $.50 per hour at 3 hours per day that $500 per year of use. Standby power use is even more of a problem

[@georgwarhead2801]

thats a halfbacken calculation...if you game 10hrs a day for 5 years you are looking at a ~910kw/h difference between a 4080 and a 7900xtx, thats a total of 455$ after 5 years, 91$ per year

[@zbrkesbris5987]

if/when you test ddr5 8000MT/s memory scaling in games, please try it on AM5 platform as well. I think it just might run in 2:1 (memory:infinity fabric) mode compared to 3:2 with 6000 MT/s EXPO modules.

[@zebrasprite]

I've always thought VRAM overclocking brings very little performance. All new GPUs have extremely fast memory speeds anyway, it seems a bit redundant.

[@JathraDH]

VRAM is the single most important thing to increase GPU performance. It has been for a long time. This is why having higher buss widths (384 vs say 192) will lead to massively more GPU performance. Often times with modern GPU's you will gain more performance overclocking the ram than the core. System ram OC brings minimal performance gain but VRAM has always been critical. It's why we generally only see 2 dual channel system memory but 4/6/8 channel VRAM.

[@maegnificant]

It does more than core OC. Have a 4090 with 1600-1750mhz OC and that makes the most gains in my overall OC.

[@CaptainKenway]

More memory bandwidth is always a good thing, especially at higher resolutions. Not every game cares about it much, but a lot of newer, more demanding titles scale well that way. It's also a way to get back a bit of performance when undervolting. I undervolt as a matter of course now because the power/heat/noise reductions are just too tempting, but you are generally leaving 5-10% performance on the table by doing that instead of overclocking, so bumping the VRAM brings a bit of that back. There's also really just no reason NOT to do it. It's free performance with no drawbacks, other than having to spend maybe half an hour testing it for stability and performance regressions.

[@EspHack]

2:04 thats a capitalistic mindset you've got there, most of the world has moved on to creditism, hope that makes you less confused about 4090 "owners"

[@yellowflash511]

It's hilarious that people suddenly have a problem with power consumption but didn't have for years when Nvidia was way more inefficient and required a lot more power. Immediately previous gen for example.

[@pf100andahalf]

Power costs have gone way up in certain parts of the world. The world doesn't just consist of your house.

[@markhackett2302]

Well explain why, when NVidia were way more inefficient, using 120 watts compared to 100 watts used by AMD, people should have been worried about power consumption.

[@yellowflash511]

@@pf100andahalf you say that but you still got a 3080 instead of RDNA2 which is way more efficient. You just contradicted yourself.

[@markhackett2302]

@@pf100andahalf Plus for places that have 110V cables, they haven't got much more than 1200W to draw on in an entire circuit, so when the card uses up to half that, and another 25% for the CPU, suddenly spiking takes you to blown circuit town, whereas it didn't when you peaked at 600W total.

[@josephoverstreet5584]

I agree with doing it with an aib xfx merc 310 and a reference 7900xtx both over clocked.

[@ha-nocri9923]

I find Adrenalin great and the best tool for OCing. I just don't think reviewers put time into understanding what is going on

[@breakbend7707]

Absolutely correct. No need to install other garbage like afterburner anymore on AMD.

[@maegnificant]

@@breakbend7707 why is afterburner garbage though

[@Pimstacja]

@@breakbend7707 sure but doesnt it reset everytime your graphic drivers crash?

[@hamoudy98productions]

@@Pimstacja adrenaline oc settings does reset everytime your pc crash or shutdown unexpectedly

[@ha-nocri9923]

@@Pimstacja yes, but you can save profiles as files

[@magedogtag]

merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year to you both and your families!!!

[@tomtomkowski7653]

RDNA 3 can be fixed in three ways. 1. Software updates (drivers, BIOS) - let's hope so 2. Drasticly prices cuts - if point 1 won't work 3. RDNA 3+ or RDNA 4 - but then point 2 will be needed

[@zynth0r]

7900 xtx is sold out everywhere so you must mean price cuts on the XT

[@tomtomkowski7653]

@@zynth0r xtx is sold out because they produced a very low volume.

[@markhackett2302]

Sounds like the newer cards can't keep themselves filled up and so lack potential.

[@nipa5961]

I found the 7900XTX to be underwhelming, but the 4080 is just even worse in comparison. There is no "fixing" needed unless Nvidia cuts prices.

[@kathrynck]

It would be interesting to see 7900 XTX AIB OC tested, because I've seen about 8% performance uplift possible, but about 30% clock uplift possible. Performance seems to scale well to 2.7 Ghz, and then abruptly dives off a cliff (but with apparent stability up to 3.2 Ghz, just garbage perf). Would love to know more about what's going on there. Infinity fabric too finite?

[@Loundsify]

I think it's the L3 cache, I think if it was 192MB instead of 96MB it would have noticeable gains.

[@kathrynck]

@@Loundsify That might greatly improve it's dependence on infinity fabric sync, yeah. It's just an early suspicion, but I think the fabric (or the 6nm bits) are limiting the clock speed scaling. Cuz I've seen a lot of people get them to 3.2 Ghz core, but performance just stops scaling. Definitely a bottleneck or desync of some kind.

[@592Johno]

I'm definitely CPU bottlenecked in CP77. My setup is a Ryzen 5 3600 and a 3080ti at 1440p. My GPU sits on average at 65-80%. In NPC heavy areas my cpu can even go up to 90% usage while my GPU sits at 65%. I'm playing at 1440p, High settings, RT on except for RT sun shadows and DLSS quality. With DLSS off my GPUs gets pegged to 100% quite frequently but my FPS is terrible cus of the settings, but with DLSS on the GPU usage instantly drops to around 65-70%.

[@tyre1337]

you should upgrade asap, you paid 3080ti money for 3070 performance

[@AKMcF]

Thanks guys !

[@MartijnterHaar]

Games with a cartoon-y art style can still benefit a lot from ray or path tracing. There's a reason Pixar uses those server farms to path trace every frame. It's not something you pick up consciously when you are watching or playing, you just notice it looks 'right'. Same with motion blur: if it isn't there or is implemented badly, there's an uncanny valley effect.

[@MrTomatobear]

I think the 7900 xtx is not bad, just maybe in value. But this card is out for 2-3 weeks and so the prices are high. I had to make that choice, high-end aib 7900 XTX or low end 4080 model (Zotac, Palit, Manli). I went with the 7900 XTX Red Devil OC Limited that was 50 bucks cheaper than any 4080. I only give something about raw resterised performance, so no RT or upscale gimmicks. I got to say im more than happy with my choice. My card is performing on par now with the 4080 with the new driver, also in power consumption. Knowing AMD and improving their drivers in the coming months you could see more performance out of these cards. Hope the prices go down soon after the first month so more people can enjoy these cards.

[@norfabatonas]

The 4080 was only 50 bucks more and you went for the XTX? Jesus, just refund it while you still can and get the 4080. And this is coming from someone who will get the XTX. It's not even worth a 1000$, let alone anything more.

[@Anthonyspartan514]

@@norfabatonas $50 from the budget brands plus the inconvenience of plug used for it vs 2 8 pin connectors plus the better performance the 7900 xtx has over 4080

[@markhackett2302]

I think that, for people IN that "around 1000 dollars" price point, it is fine. The 4080 is expensive and ONLY sells for 200 more because of NVidia RT cores, and if you need those, then you were also supposed to be saying the 3090Ti was terrible too. Top tier for either side is fine. It is the tier down. If the 7900XT was 800 or less, it would be fine, it might be more expensive than the 3080, but it is a fair bit faster. The 4090 is eye watering, but so is a thousand dollars. The 4080 should have been a grand tops, or 800. At a grand it is behind or ahead of the equally priced 7900XT, so you can go legitimately either way. At 800, the price/performance of the 7900XT is only around the same as the XTX, but if you can't get an XTX, you aren't hurting. None of the cards currently out are interesting, though.

[@Smallman647]

@@Anthonyspartan514 every 4080/4090 custom model is overbuilt so you get good performance/noise/ temperature even on lowest model. And xtx is on pair in raster with 4080 but 20% slower in raytracing, in VR, no DLSS, more power consumption, weaker on work loads. Saving 50 dollars for xtx makes no sense. You just get an all around worse product.

[@MrTomatobear]

@@norfabatonas No, the 4080 is capped out now. 7900 xtx is on par and has room for a lot of improvement in the future. I got a feeling that the people buying a 4080 now wil be sad in time when AMD matures.

[@abhishek_k7]

Please also add one mid month Q&A episode if you can. Great content as always! 🙌🏻

[@ilhambuono5451]

If VRAM OC breaks Navi 3 performance, then why they did decrease cache capacity I've been wondering about lower cache, should have been double

[@rafradeki]

They increased cache and vram bandwidth, which means they need less cache than before?

[@ilhambuono5451]

@@rafradeki if the case was VRAM OC could give more performance, IMO, this is more likely cache/bandwidth problem, the cache is fast but it's still L3 cache which is not that good latency & also that cache is separately Chiplet which give latency penalty and makes latency worse So i think, more cache capacity is still needed and that's why there are rumors about 3D V-Cache on Navi 31, to fix bandwidth problems

[@georgwarhead2801]

@@ilhambuono5451 L3 cache and "infinity cache" are the same thing and just making the cache bigger doesnt mean it brings better performance back. the bigger the cache,. the more latency you add since the gpu has allways to search the entire cache before going out to the vram, its allways L0>L1>L2>L3>vram for every instruction and not everything can benefit from a larger cache so they have to find the sweatspot where the cache is big enough to gain performance, but not too big to start loosing perrformance. what they refered too with Vram OC breaks performance was, that the card has a powerlimit and how navi3 is build, it automaticly shifts power to the limiting component on the gpu ( frontend, shader or memory) and if you start forcing a overclock on the vram, you limit the power avaible for the other components and instead of becoming unstable, the powermanagement just lowers the clockspeeds of the other components , if you force a overclock on more components, for ex. memory AND gpu, the card runs into the powerlimit, becomes unstable and crashes

[@rasmusolesen5307]

I am currently running an 11900K with boost disabled (3.5GHz, 0.1V undervolt) and an RTX 2060. It uses less power than my PS4 Pro, and runs almost everything at 1080p and 60fps locked. (The 6GB of VRAM is often the biggest problem) I would never have bought these parts for a "low" power pc, it was just what I had. But it still blows my mind how much power modern CPUs are waisting when boosting to +4/+5GHz, with no performance gain on locked fps games/settings.

[@seylaw]

A crystal clear conclusion for the 7900XT review would have been: "People should get out their pitch forks and demand better value per generation from AMD and Nvidia in all market segments; until these companies get the message, leave all of these overpriced cards on the shelf."

[@Loundsify]

Yeah when the RX 6600 XT came out and it was barely faster than the 5700XT for the same price, I was like hold up this is performance stagnation.

[@MrHeHim]

Jay's GPU was a 2x8-pin limited to 425w so it was forced to pull power from somewhere (I'm thinking) to prevent crashing. KitGuru just did a AIB with 3x8-pin without that issue but also sucking down an average of 500 watts and still just under 4090 stock performance that's under 400 watts. It's also $600 less (~2/3's the price) BUT vs a 4090 it's completely handy capped in RT which IMO looks real good in old games that use it uses heavily to really help visuals, not so much on new games With 23 years of overclocking.. Loud fans gets old quick, I always find myself turning down OC's after a few weeks because i convince myself it's not too loud when i first set my OC😅you don't notice how distracting it really is from the game, rather put up with marginally lower frames

[@Loundsify]

Undervolting is key to good noise and Temps.

[@Loundsify]

I mean the 7900 XTX has 3090ti levels of RT, that's still decent for $1000.

[@89Ayten]

It's interesting how some of the review channels did a 180 on the XTX overnight. That Nvidia check must have cleared two days after the restriction.

[@superpulaski9767]

It’s becoming blatantly obvious on certain channels.

[@volvot6rdesignawd702]

some of these channels amuse the f..k out of me mores law is dead was like a 180 back flip talked up the 7900xtx for months blah blah .. as soon as the card released " AMD lied to us blah blah " !! This channel shat all over the 7900xtx and 7900xtx then steve refused any 3rd part cards because it was not worth it .. Sadly feeling like hardware unboxed doesnt want Nvidia to black list them again !! Amused with their un bias reviews of 3rd party cards or lack there of !!

[@89Ayten]

@@volvot6rdesignawd702 The XTX is a good card with good value and the AIBs are 5-10% better. Simple as that case closed. I stopped putting too much stock into the review channels a while ago.

[@volvot6rdesignawd702]

@@89Ayten I bought the 7900xtx red devil OC LE and it a good card and im happy with it and the price but its far from where AMD should be !!

[@rako81sna]

Well it is a known behavier, that memory overclocking can lead to less performance on some cards, due to heavy error correction. Not saying that this is what happend there, but it was a thing in the past.

[@Anderson_LS]

I thought GDDR6x only has the error correction.

[@ShaneMcGrath.]

Get an air purifier one with at least 3 filter stages and True HEPA filter, Then you don't have to worry about dust, smoke, odors, fumes, pollen, bacteria etc etc I got a cheap one off Amazon for around $120 and the filters last 6 months and only cost $27, Unit only uses around 25w of power, Just get one big enough to match the size of your room/air volume.

[@jose131991]

Which one was it?

[@ShaneMcGrath.]

@@jose131991 Arovec AV-P152B not sure if it's still on sale but it should still be under A$200. Aussie company based in Sydney, Any brand will do though as long as you get a proper one with a few stages and true HEPA filter for the very fine particles, I would probably go bigger next time with something more powerful and just use it when I am not in room to avoid noise. Winix is meant to be very good with even more filter stages but you are talking big dollars, Now that I know these air purifiers aren't BS I would buy one next time that can do most of the small house.

[@Akkelos]

Thanks for answering my question. :)

[@sairsonat9816]

$799 was the fair price, where then AIBs would have room to go around their $999 MSRP.

[@valrond]

For the XTX? Sure, let's put the price lower that the 3080Ti.

[@samgoff5289]

@@valrondagree, AMD should know their place by now

[@valrond]

@@samgoff5289 They should just stop making retail GPUs. Just make APUs, for consoles and handheld PCs/laptops.

[@syncmonism]

@@samgoff5289 The XTX sold out almost immediately, so the price definitely wasn't too high. The 7900 XT, on the other hand, is definitely priced too high imo, though maybe they will lower the price by about 100 or even 150 some time soon. It would make way more sense at around 750-800. If you want a good value card, look no further than a 6700 XT for around 360 USD (if you can find it at that price).

[@samgoff5289]

@@syncmonism so by that logic the 4090 is also not priced to high? Nah dude super fans will buy anything no matter the price...even if the performance is good the price is to fucking high on all of these new gpus

[@HypnoticSuggestion]

I love what Unreal engine is doing. Having the features work whether or not you have the hardware for it is great, using compatible hardware simply accelerates it. I hope we soon get a major game release that's using the new 5.1 features, something besides Fortnite.

[@burkaanc]

while price of electricity might not be an issue by itself for high end buyers, if cpu/gpu is used for 2 generations its 4 years of difference, that does affect total cost and price/performance balance. also 7900 XT starts to look not as bad value at least in europe, as it costs 1000 tax included where xtx and 4080 is 300 eur more

[@samgoff5289]

AMD uses more power and the idle power is insane especially this generation...

[@bjkkkoo]

@@samgoff5289 they fixed it now, the drivers still sukz as always but atl this one is gone...

[@burkaanc]

@@samgoff5289 at least some of it is software issue and is patched

[@lhv2k]

Those are reference cards only, which have horrible coolers that's hot, loud and with massive coil whine, you have to pay pretty much the same price as 4080 for an AIB cards with equal cooler to a reference 4080, but even then it's still a worse Gpu that consume more power

[@syncmonism]

Yeah, I don't think they understand just how much power can be in some places. That being said, undervolting/ power limiting can go a very long way to mitigating high power consumption. Most games people play shouldn't need their card to be at full power, but you can get some big power savings if you're willing to sacrifice a little bit of clock speed. For example, if you're willing to give up around 30% of your clock speed, you're likely going to be able to run the card at a LOT less than 30% of normal power draw.

[@deafno]

2:00 power costs are insane (maybe not in Australia???) so it has big impact even on 4080 or 7900 XTX decision, which one is more efficient. Seems like 4080 is better in that regards. So I don't think being able to afford over 1k€/$ card is good argument to ignore efficiency, especially when there is no other option than to pay 1k for current gen.

[@Loundsify]

Yeah £0.36 per kWh in the UK sucks for gaming right now.

[@uk5by]

I've seen another you-tuber called "Ancient Gameplays" who did some amazing videos on the RX 7900 XTX and I think his videos can be a good reference so it might be worth it to check his channel if you want to try playing around with it. he shows how he did some Power Tuning - Overclocking, Undervolting & Power Draw on his RX 7900 XTX

[@tyre1337]

he's an amd shill

[@stoneprevious4294]

27:38 - I agree. Most of my stalwart games aren't covered in benches so my perspective is pretty flexible.

[@mrmudcatslim1004]

I bought the XT due to the need for a video card in a new build, and the lack of cards at anywhere near a decent price. I had the rest of the build just sitting there and waiting. I could not find a new card at a price I thought fair. I did not want to buy a used one. When a price drop happened on the XT I went ahead and bought it. I do feel a bit ripped off sometimes. I suppose it was not that bad in relation to what they want for anything now days. The days of good cards for good prices is over.

[@volvot6rdesignawd702]

While i understand people buy what they can afford or need the 7900xt is a bit of a dark day for AMD its purely made to compete with the now un launched 4080 12 gb and while shady was priced to upsell the 7900xtx .. I honestly think everyone should steer clear of the 7900xt for now i see massive price drops VS the 4070ti That said i see it crushing the 4070ti in most stuff ( except RT ) and also we have no idea yet if Nvidia is still going to sell the 4070ti at $900 which could flip the 7900xt to being a hero card !!

[@ktpt3732]

I feel a little bit cheap out but satisfied at the same time. I bought a Sapphire Nitro+ RX 7900 XT 20GB for $1049+ tax. I wanted the XTX version but its always "out of stock" and the scalpers are charging $2000+. What seal the deal was: Max 1440p, 3+pin power connector, vapor cool, low watt w/ high OC potential, simple design like Radeon VII, and fan removal for easy cleaning.

[@ChrisSonPEI]

The power use question has me thinking about what happens in the auto market. People routinely stretch budgets to buy vehicles that are too big, consume too much gas and then worry about fuel consumption once they're locked in. GPU purchases are probably not much different. You stretch to buy a new system that can highly perform, but on the other side you pay the price in power use. Like with the autos, it's not that folks who stretch their budgets are nessecarily positioned to absorb the operating costs, it's just that those were never front of mind when purchasing. It's hard to think about operating costs when you're looking at ride height or tera-flops.

[@Gege547]

But if you are sensible you can live tweak your performance. If you are not highly competitive aka can't make a living from it. You can easily lower your fps in your games. I have an 5700 non XT and a 75 hz freesync monitor. I usually lock the fps to 80-85 in the Adrenaline. So I got my freesync and a nice 80-110w power consumption (can be the max 180w in some xtreme cases). This makes my pc-s power total power consumption to 200-250W. Totally worth the 850w platinum psu.

[@ChrisSonPEI]

@@Gege547 yea absolutely. In fact the better the card the more control you can have in that respect.

[@craighorne1996]

Logically speaking I’ve just ordered a 7900xt and I’m trusting and drivers will improve performance and close that gap. I would have got an xtx but they’re all above msrp by atleast £30-150 making them rtx 4080 msrp and then with those they’re all £1299+ which is £400 more than a 7900xt which actually fits in my case

[@DailyCorvid]

This always happens with AMD cars, reviewers flock to early results and never mention the last 3 generations of fine wine! RX5500XT = 5th gen 1080p card = starts life equal to a 1070 ends life equal to a 3050 lol not bad for a £200 card. RX6700XT = 6th gen 1440p card = starts life equal to a 2060 ends life equal to a 2080ti lol not bad for a £500 card RX7600XT = 7th gen 4k card = starts life equal to the 4080 end life equal to a ......................... tbc

[@SKHYJINX]

@@DailyCorvid Imagine paying real cash money and not getting what you paid for until AMD drivers catch up over years. Finewine isn't good, its performance you paid for but don't have.

[@craighorne1996]

@@DailyCorvid I remember when the 6700xt dropped and it was barely beating the 5700xt which also at the time was on par with the 2070 super now the 6700xt is on par with the 3070/2080ti

[@DailyCorvid]

@@SKHYJINX Says you a person who's not owned any lol. Look I get it right you prefer Nvidia, they are good to sometimes. But I have owned many of both types of cards, and you're just plain old wrong there bud. AMD cards generally age a lot better than Nvid as a general rule. For instance my RX5500XT started life as a low end 1060 clone, but ends it's life as a 2070S clone. You show me an Nvid product which ever did that?

[@DailyCorvid]

@@craighorne1996 exactly, the only people who complain about Radeon fine-wine are people with comparable Nvid cards, which previously were beating the Radeons. Lol. It's buyers regret from green team members. I have had both sets of cards and always sell off the Nvid. Over time the AMD cards beat the snot out of em.

[@jayhsyn]

Can you please explain what janky and buggy issues you’ve had with over clocking on adrenaline/ wattman. I’ve had no problems using this method for over clocking/under volting.

[@markhackett2302]

Where you go utterly a* over teakettle here is that you promoted the 3080, 3090 and 3090Ti for their raytracing, and the 7900XTX is faster at RT than any of those, and the 7900XT is faster than the 3080. So unless if the 3090 is now claimed BY YOU to suck, then the 7900XT doesn't suck either for RT. SURE you can claim the 4080 is BETTER at RT, but the 3090 is better than the 3080 too, but you didn't claim the 3080 sucked.

[@stuartfury3390]

That question about the dust was really bizarre. You just clean your desk. I can't believe someone actually asked that.

[@Boorock70]

People got crazy enough to buy $1000 GPUs... WTF is going on ? Those segment cards were $600 just 2 years ago and why no one is talking about the "doubled" prices of GPUs ? 😕

[@tonymorris4335]

In terms of hobbies it's still not that much. A part you buy every other year that costs less than the steel tube exhaust I put on my car? It's not enough cost for me to boycott over a hobby. It's not food or rent they're raising costs on.

[@lowzyyy]

Because there are americans who earn too much compared to other parts of the world. Plus morons who defend them like dude above my comment

[@Boorock70]

@@lowzyyy 🤣

[@Traumglanz]

The nitro xtx has already stock like 8% extra and the headroom seems still to be there, but the OC with all the UV and OC steps is a giant pain in the ass.