Can the Semi-Canon Castlevania Games Fit in the Timeline?

[@ViktorGerts]

My personal headcanon is that the 64 games and CoTM were legends spread by the people of transylvania to explain Dracula's defeat in the 18th century, Since all records of Ecclesia's existence vanished after the events of OoE.

[@natanaelmantundalenta9176]

wow that's a good hc, im stealing it

[@iloveputin7274]

damn i think i have a new favourite headcanon

[@christopherbarrera6966]

Makes perfect sense.

[@andrewtaylor6393]

Something that intrigues me is that Shanoa is described as being ONE OF Ecclesia's warriors, and likewise, Albus is described as being its Chief Researcher. Which begs the question as to what happened to the rest of Ecclesia's members and what they were doing before, during, and after the events of Order of Ecclesia. Especially with Grimoire of Souls adding that Ecclesia is some shadowy organization that was funded by the leaders of the world, who later cover up its existence so completely that no one knows about it. One potential solution to the timeline would be to base all the 19th century events around Order of Ecclesia and the titular order only being able to defeat Dracula for short periods of time due to not having the Vampire Killer (or if they do, its full power. For example: 1797, Symphony of the Night, ends with the Belmonts disappearance and the world scrambling for a replacement. 1820~, Barlowe founds Ecclesia. The order has initial success against Dracula, sealing him for 10 years, though with some heavy losses. 1830, Circle of the Moon, sees Ecclesia experimenting with prototype glyphs (DSS System) and their own holy whip. 1844, Legacy of Darkness, lets say the Man-Beast Tribe's true origin is that they were created by Ecclesia as a result of an experiment to graft glyphs onto human bodies, turning them into monsters much like how later Shanoa will perfect it and be able to assume were-beast forms with her glyphs. 1852, Legacy of Darkness/Castlevania 64, Reinhardt and Henry are actually members of Ecclesia. 1860~, Order of Ecclesia, ends with Barlowe's betrayal and Ecclesia dissolving and being covered up.

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

I like a lot of what you're suggesting. I still think Reinhardt being a 1st-gen Belmont branch member (my headcanon is he's Richter's grandson through a daughter, and that's why he's picked on as a kid for not having the surname) would lend more weight to his story and could mimic bits of how Johnathan Morris feels later down the road. Though that wouldn't preclude him from being associated with Ecclesia necessarily. That's the thing with my analysis in this vid; it helps bring about ideas.

[@Mudkip971]

The devs of Circle of the Moon from the start said that they never considered their own game part of the timeline.

[@darian6423]

Great video! I’ve always stood by these games being canonical, because they don’t explicitly contradict anything unless you look with a magnifying glass. Also, something else to mention in regards to C64, is that Reinhardt’s original name during development was “Schneider Belmont”. There’s remnants of this within the game’s dialogue as well, as enemies keep referring to him as such. Like when Death calls him “scum of a Belmont”. So another way one could look at it, is that Reinhardt actually IS a Belmont, but their clan changed their surname to “Schneider” to remain hidden from the public. Then once Reinhardt slays Dracula, he gives the whip over to the Morris family. As for Circle of the Moon, I don’t like the argument against it that just because the Belmonts aren’t mentioned and that you’re not using the Vampire Killer automatically makes it non-canon. That’s an evidence of absence fallacy. It’s possible that Morris Baldwin just never mentioned the Belmonts to Hugh or Nathan. I agree that the placement of events makes it a bit tricky. But as we’ve seen in the franchise before, Dracula has been resurrected multiple times in the span of a decade, so it’s not impossible. One argument I’m surprised you didn’t bring up against CotM was the fact that Dracula can only be killed by the Vampire Killer, or a denomination of his own power (example being Alucard and Shanoa). Here’s my answer to that. Nathan was able to slay Dracula by using the power of the DSS Cards. Because those cards drop from monsters within the castle, and thus contain their powers. See where I’m going? So yeah, I think if you really wanted to, you can consider these games canon. I think they really add to the Castlevania universe rather than take away from it.

[@thomasffrench3639]

I’m pretty sure that Legends and Circle of the Moon weren’t ever meant to be canon. I feel like Castlevania 64 duology is unclear tho.

[@ethanmichaelcrane934]

I think IGA's claim that the creators of these games intended them to be gaiden is accurate, evidenced by the inconsistencies with the main games of the series that preceded them. CV64 outright ignores the events of Rondo and SotN (Dracula as Malus stating that he's been gone for 100 years), and Legacy of Darkness doesn't correct this timeline error (though the CV64 remake within it contradicts even LoD if I recall correctly by still asserting it's been 100 years when we know this to be false). Similarly, Legends contradicts CV3 being the first Belmont vs. Dracula event. Even if one could make the case that CV64 might have been in development around the time of SotN (likely) and so might be forgiven for its chronological confusion with regard to that game, it certainly wasn't in development before Rondo was released--and Legends most definitely was in development long after CV3. CotM is probably the least problematic of them continuity-wise but also features Bootleg Belmont with a Dollar Tree Vampire Killer (why should anyone be afraid of Dracula in an age without Belmonts when just anyone with a magic whip can stop him). On its face, this one is side-story territory. And I'm saying this as someone who absolutely loves everything about the N64 games, the idea of Sonia, and the atmosphere of CotM.

[@alexandermckay9521]

I always loved the idea of Sonia and Alucard being lovers and the Belmonts secretly being linked to Dracula by blood. The existential dread of being one with your own worst enemy has always been a great plot device.

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

It could be said that the universe that Super Castlevania 4 inhabits could fill that niche (Simon is a dhampire with vampire blood in him, according to the Japanese story). Legends being in the same timeline could make that feasible.

[@alexandermckay9521]

@@SindraVaniaProjects I actually didn’t know that! Good point ❤️

[@AdrianFahrenheitTepes]

@@SindraVaniaProjects I’ve wondered about the Wiki Article. Super Castlevania 4 did come before Legends. AFAIK, it’s a remake of the first Castlevania with Simon Belmont. The wiki article likely tries to explain Castlevania II : Simon’s Quest, in which Simon has the time limit to save himself from becoming the new Dracula. Now Simon being a descendant of Dracula could make sense as an explanation for why Dracula can take over Simon and use Simon for his reincarnation. Being the he same bloodline COULD be an explanation as to how a Belmont could be compatible for Dracula inserting his essence and reincarnating in a Belmont, or why Richter was becoming a vessel for Shaft. However, later in Curse of Darkness, Isaac actually becoming the new body of Dracula might contradict this, although Isaac in the game was heavily succumbing to Dracula’s curse, on top of the game version of Isaac being already embroiled in hatred and anger over his parents’ murders by the mob. Either way, Simon being a descendant of Dracula could explain Simon’s Quest where Dracula tries to resurrect himself using Simon’s body. I also wonder how the Dhampir classification would apply, because I’m pretty sure being the child of a Dhampir would likely just make you a person, because the genes would be diluted from a half-vampire breeding with a normal human. Then add multiple generations and it would be diluted to the point of being unrecognizable. Someone else commented in the Sonia Belmont one that Alucard being the father would be a kind of sad curse by itself because the children or spouse he had wouldn’t have the immortality. So he would just not want to pursue making more children to not subject mortal people to the nightmare of a love that would just not get old with his children or wife. And outlive them all by far.

[@DuskbringerX]

Tbh I assumed it was Alucard + Maria = LeCarde family

[@potatoweaver4116]

Quincey Morris did have the Vampire Killer before John. Quincey is the earliest Morris we know of to have the whip, he had in at least 1897.

[@IamStefanFinley]

In the earlier games, it says in one of the documents found in the anniversary collection, there were 3 different whips. So, who knows if Nathan and Reinhard used the Vampire Killer or not.

[@redrum0127]

KCEK we love you!

[@handgun559]

Legends feels out of place because it changes Trevor as the origin of the Belmont's fame. With Legends, it's like, "oh, actually, there was this other Belmont who actually made them famous, but they were never mentioned before." That's the rough part of retconning an origin story. We already heard that Leon was the origin, and Trevor made them famous (C3). And Alucard being Trevor's dad is wack.

[@Bingo_the_Pug]

It’s obvious the developers intended for the N64 titles to be within the franchise canon, but Circle of the Moon seems like it wanted to be a 100% stand-alone game, which is odd considering Hugh was jealous that Nathan inherited the whip which implies that it could’ve been the Vampire Killer

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

Iga has said that the original devs in charge of the KCEK/Kobevanias deliberately meant their games to be non-canon side stories from the start, but I have a hard time believing that was always the case with CV64 due to the fact Reinhardt was a Belmont in-name up until the last bit of production when it was changed.

[@dommoore6180]

@@SindraVaniaProjects "I have a hard time believing that was always the case" Same. IGA did some great things and less great things, but damn the people who still pretend like he was always 100% honest. It's blindingly obvious that 64 was not designed as a gaiden, and rather ironically, we know for fact that SotN was.

[@natejoe9924]

Of course I enjoy your videos

[@stephen6992]

Im doing a marathon of the series and.....ive no clue what's going on but i love this series, tho funny how bloodline, castlevania chronicles,4 are either remakes or its own game

[@christlevania5933]

I always wondered if Castlevania Resurrection had never been canceled, how that would have affected the timeline. Sonia would definitely feature prominently in the story and that Victor Belmont fellow, too. Great analysis, by the way, I always enjoy your videos. 🥰

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

Thanks so much! Yeah, Resurrection's release would have made things interesting, though I doubt it would have stopped Igarashi from handwaving it too as non-canon to the Castlevania series. Who knows though.

[@dommoore6180]

@@SindraVaniaProjects good old IGA, stepping all over a series he didn't make so he could turn it into something totally different from what it began as just to suit his personal tastes and the at the time tiny niche who cared about his games.

[@summersetbanjo7440]

I would love to see you do a similar video for the metal gear spinoffs and the possibility of them canon and how. (games like ghost babel, snake's revenge, Survive, and mobile) And yes I would love to see Castlevania 64/Legacy be reimagined as a Souls game.

[@derektereve286]

Honestly, Sonia should have never been removed, as the whole Alucard being Trevor's Father is false Yes Sonia has a relationship with Alucard, but he is Maury Povich voice: not the Father

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

Take Alucard out of it and set her game back a few more generations, and Sonia totally can fit back in the lore. There is a ton of potential for her; like making her one of the Belmonts between Leon and Trevor that hunted Dracula but never got to actually beat him.

[@AdrianFahrenheitTepes]

I felt that the whole father of Trevor worked as an alternate timeline story, which was what Lords of Shadow was. Even then the father was Gabriel Belmont and the son was Trevor Belmont

[@AdrianFahrenheitTepes]

Or just make her Simon Belmont’s niece who takes over for a while?

[@mikelhealer4454]

An interesting premise for me would be the 64 canon 100% in my opinion they fit better than New Generation.

[@AdrianFahrenheitTepes]

Also poor Malus, the child who was unfortunately chosen to provide a new body for Dracula to live in. IMO Malus is more convincing than Soma Cruz

[@mikelhealer4454]

​@@AdrianFahrenheitTepes Malus is my favourite reincarnation, also his transformation.

[@zariaalhajmoustafa2573]

In castlevania 64 rector Schneider originally Belmont before they change to Schneider

[@LadyLunarPhoenix]

Circle of the Moon, I figure dealt with a vampire that was NOT Dracula. Just as in the 64 game has a fake Dracula. I figure the guy could be posing as Dracula and have figured he would pretend to Be dracula to make himself sound more powerful and dangerous than he actual 'was'. Since Dracula had been told Lisa's last words he doesn't seem to be actively seeking war, its likely any other vampire could try to use his name and do whatever. As for the 64 game, given in Aria, Vampire Killer still is active when Soma is 'human', its could be just that the Whip sensed Rosa as a 'vampire' first and figured she'd go the same way as Sara. So the Whip wouldn't accept her presence because she could go vampire again. Thus the whip is then sent to the Morris clan since it will work for them.

[@suprshin]

After the day I have been having. I come home. Sit down And have 10 minutes of reprieve. Life is good.

[@StockeTepes]

Another excellent video. This is a topic I’ve been thinking about for such a long time now & it has always left me feeling so conflicted 😆 There’s absolutely a case to be made for the 64 games. But I think one of the biggest pieces of media lending to it’s canonicity worth mentioning is Cornell’s appearance in Judgment. All the characters like Carmilla & Death (the mainline versions of them) talk to Cornell like they’ve met him before, with his story mode in that game fitting in nicely before the events of Legacy of Darkness. And if Cornell is canon to IGAs timeline, absolutely not a stretch to consider Reinhart and his adventure as happening soon after. I can see Richter giving the whip to Reinhardts family, maybe them also being loosely related to the Morris Clan too? It’s possible! Circle of the Moon is… a lot more difficult to justify 🤣 I always saw it as before Bloodlines but it’s veryyy difficult to say. Nathan certainly has the makings of a Morris/Schneider/Belmont but MAN Dracula would’ve been revived so many times in the 18th century lol. I’ll always stand by all three games being canon if the player truly wants them to. It seems like the best way to go about it sometimes especially because all three have something unique to offer, and lend to the Castlevania series in fun ways. Always happy to see these three games get some more love

[@stefanhurtig7956]

The 1800s sure was a busy time for ol' Drac. Makes you wonder if he ever got tired of the constant resurrections.

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

Every time he gets comfortable in his 100-year nap, another wannabe acolyte wakes him up. It's no wonder he wants to destroy all of humanity.

[@stefanhurtig7956]

Yeah, I'm imagining every time they do the ritual, a big resurrection tube comes and sucks Dracula right out of his comfy chaos couch. A woefully underexplored part of the mythos.

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

That is a very Saturday Morning Cartoons theory, lol.

[@juanguerrero2821]

Great video, I do like the idea of trying to add the N64 games and Circle (One of my top 5s) back into the timeline, but for the sake of conversation I'll try to see if there are anything that goes against it. I'll bring them up in the same order as you did in the video. I remember reading somewhere that the KCEK games were gaidens from the start, and were never meant to be canon. I think it was somewhere in the wiki that mentioned IGA simply honoring the intentions of the developers. Legends being decanonized had a lot to do with the fact it was already conflicting with a lot of the canon that had already been established, as it was 1 of the 3 "origin" games, remember the whole "Trevor C. Belmont" thing that happened, Legends just added more confusion to that. One thing about the Order of Ecclesia thing, the intro explicitly mentions that all the other organizations failed, and only Ecclesia was able to develop a way to fight Dracula without the Vampire Killer, Glyphs. And I believe that Barlowe had Dracula's remains for a long time, so that wouldn't mesh well with CotM. Or if you tried to place OoE after the N64 games, that would risk it overlapping with Quincy's story. But the biggest thing that I fell makes the N64 games and OoE would by the why of everything. Why would there need to be a big scramble of organizations to try to come up with a possible replacement for the VK if the Schneiders are around and kicking ass with the whip. If the whip went directly to the Morris, and they needed time to get back into hunting, it could explain the sudden need for a VK replacement, and that need only really works in the time period after Richter, but before Quincy's father, which is where I assume the Morris finally got back into the game. The Morris lending the whip to the Schneiders to use while they trained could work well, and it would explain how Reinhardt could fight off Dracula, and the rush for VK replacement, as it would've been done in secret. I think that either CotM or the N64 can be canon, but not both. I'd go with the N64 despite liking CotM. I left this to the end, but still worth asking, I haven't played the N64 games, what happens to Dracula's body? Since OoE had the remains be a major part of the Glyph's development. Usually Dracula's body is destroyed along with the castle when he's defeated, but his remains exist in OoE, and they clearly can't be from SotN, since there he died in the inverted castle. One last thing, Quincy had the Vampire Killer, as it was seeing his sacrifice to kill Dracula that inspired both Young John and Eric to pursue Vampire Hunting. But that was in the manual, so you could walk around it as it doesn't actually happen in the game.

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

The bit about John and Eric seeing Quincey killed fighting Dracula was only in the NA manual and never mentioned anywhere else, so that plus their ages make it pretty much impossible they saw, let alone remember, Quincey dying. I agree that CotM has the shakiest grounds for being considered canon out of the three I listed, and at least CV64 makes the most sense in terms of its wiggle-room for its canonicity in terms of Ecclesia's vague date in the timeline as well as what's stated in its own lore. Dracula's remains are vague in the CV64 ending, but there's also multiple endings in CV64, so that could also provide a basis for how Dracula turns up in 1897 (as "Malus" could have grown up and resumed his destiny as Dracula and Reinhardt would be too old to do much about it).

[@deezee2965]

This is, there are no active Belmont during the XIXth Century, so it make most of the games taking place during that timeframe possible.

[@gjtrue]

Very good and interesting list. I remember thinking and wondering why Circle of the Moon out of all of them was seemingly not part of the canon. As I too couldn't find more of it's lore contradicting too much of what came before and what may come after not counting the N64 games. I never considered many of the topics in this video. 👀👀

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

When push comes to shove I doubt Igarashi or any of the KCEK/Kobevania devs had any idea that 20+ years later that fans would pick things apart *nearly* this much when it came to the lore.

[@kennethsoto7562]

I kinda wish Cornell would become his full self the developers wanted a full on martial artist werewolf. It definitely would’ve been a new take but alas the limited time and tech on the n64

[@AdrianFahrenheitTepes]

Well, I can honestly see Legends as being an inspiration for Lords of Shadow where the Belmonts and Dracula are the same family.

[@Dongled]

There's another possibility that I brought up in my own video on C64 that isn't mentioned here: What if the Schneiders are just the Belmonts but changed their name due to the relocation to Germany while they went into hiding? Based on your discussion here, you're absolutely right that CotM is the hardest to prove into canon but you're dead on about C64 and LoD being pretty plausible to fit into canon. I'd also add that Iga did an interview where he admitted the worst thing he did regarding Castlevania (i.e. his biggest regret) was making the timeline public.

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

Haha, yeah he kind of wrote himself into a corner by making official timelines that nerds like us would trip over ourselves trying to make legit. =P

[@zariaalhajmoustafa2573]

Cornell is the only character from the Castlevania 64 to appear in judgement

[@pepejjgl]

EVERRRRYOOOONE!!!!! is part of the history XD I love them all. Castlevania 64 is special to me, For the first time I was looking in any direction at the castle. Bring Back Sonia!!!

[@DuskbringerX]

I consider Lord of the Rings canon. Tolkien's Legendarium i believe is fundamentally integral to the history of Castlevania, rather than just a reference point, with both sharing much in the way of lore, but also great similarity in theming and characters, such as Fëanor and Leon and the dangers of their oaths.

[@coltonowens2742]

I love talking about CV64, is far and away my favorite in the franchise. Whether or not CV64 was intended to be a mainline or gaiden game doesn't bug me. What bugs me is the localization f*kery surrounding both Reinhardt and Carrie. Reinhardt is a Belmont full stop, and Carrie is a Belnades. Who cares if Schneider was primarily a surname, and Fernandez was just an outright mistranslation. WTF Konami? Not that surprising though, the 90's and early 2000s was rife with localization issues.

[@dommoore6180]

The 64 games for sure can be canon, and I've never bought IGA telling us that they were designed to be gaidens when we also have Konami internally considering the 64 game the next major step for the series, and 64 has so much more in common with the rest of the series up to that point than SotN. We know that CotM was designed as a gaiden at least though. Having said that, *technically* (and I stress technically because this is unbelievably stupid) IGA said that Judgement is non canon (so what's even the point in it's numerous lore baits and references, but whatever). In effect I think Judgement can be canon, it expands on 1999, St. Germain, CV3/CoD and contradicts nothing. But technically, it isn't. Also Reinhardt isn't a Belmont relative, he's a full blooded Belmont, but that still doesn't immediately disqualify his game for reasons you list. Nice video, although admittedly this topic frustrates me slightly. Never been a fan of IGA's handling of the canon. And the 64 games are quite underrated.

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

I absolutely appreciate what Igarashi tried to do with the series, because it's what I'd been silently doing with the series lore for years. When you have an analytical brain (or something related to it), I feel like you're compelled to connect the dots in the story, even if they're loose as hell and there a lot of narrative leaps to be made. That being said, like I said, I feel he backed himself into a corner and needed to take liberties with the canon that could have been done a lot better. Hindsight is 20/20 and I wonder what if anything IGA might change if he were given another chance. Regardless, that's why I do vids like this; to propose an alternate path for the story canon.

[@imperiodasgalaxias9064]

How the Quincy Morris event fits this? Also, Konami could at last put the 64 games in the Nintendo Online

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

Quincey dies in 1897 when the Dracula novel's events happen, and was described there as a "rich young American", so likely in his 20s or maybe early 30s by that time. This would be 45 years after Castlevania 64 and 20 years before Bloodlines.

[@SaintJoker42]

I think for any series, it's a subjective matter of opinion of if its canon.

[@Shoopuffishgud]

Tl,dr: absolutely they can. IGA is just a petulant child.

[@xombiemike]

"Bring all the factions of the fan community together on this." We are fractured, butt hole. (I'm making a fractured butt hole joke, not calling you a butt hole. To be clear.)

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

South Park: the ever-present meta joke.

[@SkyStarNova]

Great video! C64/Legacy of Darkness is, I consider them one game, one of my Top 3 favorite Castlevanias along Dracula X Rondo of Blood and Bloodlines. I happen to love Dark Night Prelude so I say, screw Iga. I prefer the simplicity of Dark Night Prelude to the trash mess he did in Lament of Innocence. I do like it as a game but its story is weak at best and trash at worst, specially for such a console game. I guess he was in a rush to turn the franchise stale and eventually kill it with his repetitive cheapness. Iga is a good game director but he is not a good creative nor writer and his ego killed Castlevania in the end. Why not apply the same logic you used to connect Circle of the Moon and C64/Legacy of Darkness to Dark Night Prelude? Castlevania never needed a mess of a story to justify its cool premise, but what Iga did in Lament was crap and he expected us to ignore Sonia's story just because he didn't like it or didn't work on it? Screw him, he didn't create Castlevania in the first place, nor did he made it famous. Castlevania was an institution long before he came along and turned it stale and killed it.

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

Thanks for the comment! I actually think Sonia would be far better used without the Alucard romance mess. She could be easily re-inserted into the series canon as a Belmont between Leon's and Trevor's time, who encounters Mathias prior to his full unveiling as Dracula and either doesn't or can't defeat him but gathers valuable intel on him and the abilities he's gained since Lament of Innocence. It feel like that'd be a far more interesting story to tell and gives her more agency anyway.

[@Shadders2010]

Ooh, that Soulslike idea of yours isn't half bad. You could expand on that. You seem creative enough. Cook up some AI concept art maybe. I miss these vids. Hope Sindra's okay.

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

I'm okay, just had a bit of a video break! Getting back into the swing now!

[@Shadders2010]

@@SindraVaniaProjects acceptable. Gotta make sure that sultry Sindra voice is in working order! NOW TO WORK

[@patrickfinzi4345]

i see some problems with it, it creates too much contradictions to fit them in, for example, cotm have official statement from the devs saying it takes place in an alternate timeline with no belmonts or morris. none of those games can happen before order of ecclesia since at the introduction it stated that after the belmont disappearence humanity lost it's ability to resist the darkness, hence the creation of those organizations, and, all of them failed, except ecclesia, putting those games before it would create contradictions, and since Dracula mentions that has been ages since he last danced, and the time frame of circle of the moon (1820), and since Shanoa is 20 years old and was raised by Ecclesia since she was a kid ... so yeah, those two can't fit together, hence why CotM takes place in it's own continuity, as it's always was, also it would be really strange to just have these other hunters with another whip as powerful as the vampire killer around ... and never have them show up again when humanity clearly needed them. the 64 games also create a whole lot of contradictions, first we would need to ignore that Richter handled the whip to the Morris clan, one contradiction already, Reinhardt original name was Schneider Belmont, the game also still treats him as a direct Belmont descendent, saying he is the heir of the Belmont clan, weilding the Vampire Killer, being called a Belmont directly by Death, and also official statements saying Reinhardt is a direct descendent of Simon, Ralph and Richter, contradicting the Belmont disappearence plot started in Bloodlines, and if we just say Reinhardt is not a direct descendent of the belmonts to be this other family as mentioned in the video, well, then we contradicting the 64 games itself, another thing, the 64 games were made as a sequel to Rondo, but ignoring Bloodlines and SotN, in the final battle Dracula states that has been 100 years since he was last fully revived, so putting the 64 games into IGA timeline would also contradict that legends basically contradicts every single game that came before it, not even counting iga games that came after it, putting those games together in that already stablished timeline wouldn't work well and it would just create more confusion and contradictions, the portrait of ruin timeline was a bonus only released on america and it adapted the japanese timeline released on konami extreme desktop, they also don't go further into the events of those games on the contrary to the others, the next timelines after it don't mention those anymore and judgment takes place in a time/space rift, allowing for characters like cornell and galamoth to appear in

[@EviltheNub]

I've been saying for years that CotM and the N64 games can fit in the timeline and were only removed because of Igarashi's bloated ego.

[@xmoonstarx]

But there are official statements of both Iga and CotM developers where they confirm that's not the case.

[@patrickfinzi4345]

@@xmoonstarx exactly

[@SindraVaniaProjects]

CotM I can understand because of the points I make in the video about no Belmont or VK whip named, and is made to look like some alternate universe take. Castlevania 64 I have a hard time believing was meant to be out-of-canon from the start since Reinhardt was a Belmont during most of production and his name was only changed last-minute because it didn't sound natural. That's speculation of course.

[@EviltheNub]

@@SindraVaniaProjects OoE could have happened after CV64 though, the only timeframe we're given is it's sometime in the 1800s. There's a 45 year gap between CV64 and the Dracula novel, plenty of time for Dracula to get resurrected once or twice.

[@blumiu2426]

I don't think Sonia being a woman starting it had anything to do with it, rather a woman can't start the bloodline. Only men pass on the family name, women take on their husbands. Other than that, the Belmont clan would be dhampirs, so it just didn't make a lot of sense. If she needed to be in the timeline if not just create another female Belmont, she would be a sister to a Belmont or first, second cousin, though of course she wouldn't have the Vampire Killer. The 64 games would be hard to consider canon if one knows the story and how Dracula resurrects as a child. That would create all sorts of problems in him not being Mathais anymore, if ever was in that story other than figuring out the Schneider line. If they had to give it up in one generation, that wouldn't be a good thing as they were found unworthy or implies Schneider died to the curse and it was passed on knowingly to the Morris clan that it could kill them too. When Richter gave up the whip it was because he felt unworthy, so it seems the act of passing it on wasn't actually a good thing.

[@AdrianFahrenheitTepes]

Here’s the thing though, the genetics get diluted with generations so even if a Dhampir like Alucard actually fathered children, they wouldn’t technically be Dhampirs, they would most likely just be human. The whole idea of Belmont and Dracula being in the same family was used in Lords of Shadow, an alternate Castlevania Timeline altogether, the other reason why Sonia doesn’t work is because it contradicts later games like Symphony of the Night with Alucard being given some fairy tale Prince ending. So Symphony of the Night couldn’t happen if the Sonia idea worked. I am not as fond of Lords of Shadow as the regular, but as an alternate timeline it was a cool way to experiment with concepts outside of the base timeline such as playing as Dracula himself.

[@Chernobog2]

If Sonia had a child without getting married she'd still pass along her family name. Even if she were married there have been times when women did not take their husband's name for one reason or another.

[@blumiu2426]

@@AdrianFahrenheitTepes I wasn't speaking beyond the first generation, there would be little point. The main thing is that it would take just as broad and crazy story plot for the sake thereof as Lords of Shadow did. The problem would be that first generation of dhamir finding a human woman to marry, because that is a major sticking point for a vampire hunter as well as individual in such times. I'm not sure what fairy-tale ending Alucard got in SotN... It was a cool idea until finally seeing how it was executed, which was poorly. The lore they tried to create almost seemed like it was going to be good, yet every point seemed to falter with the DLC creating a scenario in which he actually became a vampire and then how he gained the level of power that went beyond normal. And then you get stealth sections as the Lord of Darkness...lol

[@blumiu2426]

@@Chernobog2 The major problem with that being her child (s) would be bastards. That is not how you start the Belmont line out of a wedlock situation, plus with that of a vampire. That's the perfect start for a rejected bloodline, not a revered one akin to being holly in ways. There was no such a time in antiquity a woman did not take her husband's name, that is a modern concept. It would be like spitting in the husband's and his lineages face to not take his name, as if ashamed or did not want it. Plus, it opens up the possibility of infidelity by not taking it. The only reason and a rare one would be a woman taking up her maiden name after her husband had died, but it would still be taken by the children. Not giving them a his name is wanting them to be fatherless and without the securities marriage brought in terms of heritage and passing on property rights. For what would be a Catholic lineage, it most definitely would not be something they would do or consider, much less the norms of Medieval times. There may also be a reason we see male Belmont inherit the whip as it may be something passed down through the firstborn males, as that is what we commonly see and never other siblings follow after as there is one whip wielded by one that would become worthy. Plus, the origin of Leon and Mathais set up the chronology when Legends never bothered, just created a scenario without consideration to how it would fit in.

[@AdrianFahrenheitTepes]

@@blumiu2426 Alucard didn’t get a fairy tale ending in SOTN, he was still dealing with being really traumatized in the sequel known as Symphony of Recollection but him and Sonia sounded like that, Sonia helps the boy Alucard get out of the curse and they have kids, that’s taking pages out of the Beauty and the Beast fairy tale right there! As for power levels, even in the Igarashi Canon Matthias (Young Dracula) got higher Power Levels than Walter Bernhardt by stealing the Crimson Stone and thus command of Death from Walter. All in spite of Matthias being way younger than Walter who was a centuries old Vampire. In Castlevania, people can get great power with Relics, it’s not a simple question of age. I mean if they put it in the plot that Alucard absorbed some hypothetical soul of some Godlike Monster or some hypothetical relic, he could be at a higher level than Dracula, the problem with Alucard though is that he can only take so much violence and anger before he goes insane, so like a Jedi in Star Wars, too much Darkness could make him go to the Dark Side. He has as much of an issue with personal internal moral conflict as he does with raw power. In fact he could do great power but he would run a risk of morally corrupting himself.