Can You Beat Persona 4 WITHOUT the Protagonist?

Like this video to fix the tactics system
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One of the most defining features of Persona 3’s combat system was its ai controlled party members. It was a somewhat unique idea for the series and helped give Persona 3 a distinct identity compared to the other games. Though this feature was met with a pretty mixed reception so much so that by the time Persona 4 came around, the devs over at P-studio sort of backpedalled on the idea and included an option for direct control. You know it’s bad when this feature is advertised on the back of the box. While this is a good feature to have, you know what? Old habits die hard. Persona 4 still offers the option to use the tactic system in a similar fashion to persona 3. And since I already proved how useful it was in that game, I figured I should tackle the same challenge here. So in today’s video, we’re going to find out whether or not you can beat Persona 4 without the protagonist.
The rules of this run are pretty simple. Rule number 1: the direct command tactic is completely off-limits and I have to stick with ai controlled party members. Rule number 2: the protagonist cannot perform any actions in battle other than changing party tactics, accept all out attacks, and guarding. This means that no items during a battle but I’ll allow their use outside of combat. Rule number 3: is that I’m allowed to use save states for the sake of saving time. Obviously I’m not going to use savestates in the middle of fights, but I’ll plop one down at the start of boss fights so I don’t have to rewatch the cutscenes. Rule number 4 is no new game plus for obvious reasons. And finally, rule number 5 is that this run is going to be attempted with the vanilla ps2 release of persona 4. While Persona 4 golden is the most accessible version of the game, the quality of life additions ultimately make the game significantly easier. Rise’s social bonuses and the reworked shuffle time mechanics completely trivialize that version of the game so for the sake of keeping things interesting, I’m going with the ps2 version. Plus everyone always uses golden for challenge runs so playing vanilla will be a good shake up.
Can You Beat Persona 4 WITHOUT the Protagonist? Welcome to my Persona 4 challenge run video. in this Persona 4 challenge run, Nam's Compendium will be asking the question can you beat Persona 4 without the protagonist. This Persona 4 challenge run video is not a Persona 4 review or Persona 4 Analysis but it does serve as a Persona 4 in 2023 video. This Persona 4 challenge run was uploaded in commemoration of the somewhat recent Persona 4 Portable PC port which is a great way to experience the game. Nam's Compendium has a Persona 4 analysis and Persona 4 review in the past, but can you beat Persona 4 without the protagonist is very different. If this video does well, expect more Persona challenge run videos and Shin Megami Tensei challenge run videos in the future.

[@NamsCompendium]

I want to do more challenge runs in the future. If you have any suggestions, please let me know in the comments below! Also, subscribe if you're feeling generous!

[@jessiealtgirl]

Persona 3 portable with femc exclusive content only (slinks, mechanics, persona’s)

[@kurtz2412]

DDs 1 no protag

[@livingdoubt54]

strange journey protagonist only

[@Nahobinoah]

SMTV without demons

[@immortalflame994]

Complete SMT3 on hardest difficulty at low level (no farming)

[@vwts]

Yukiko deciding to troll the team and not do anything until the last second just for laughs is surprisingly in-character

[@LavaCreeperPeople]

Can You Beat Persona 4 WITHOUT the Protagonist?

[@thiccum2668]

Ludonarrative harmony

[@andre_af]

"Yukiko thinking she's hot shit" and she's correct! ✅️✅️✅️

[@trolledfrog678]

No ❤

[@louisadler4087]

Bro, there's a bug in Adachi's dungeon where if you have nul physic attacks and you encounter a certain enemy, the battle can last a lot due to the enemy summoning allies and only attacking you with physical attacks (his minions also only have physical attacks), those battles can last a lot of hours and when you end then, the amount of exp that you earn es huge, making it more viable if you wanted to grind to level 99 with the whole party.

[@polishedrelish]

I've heard of it, but is it in Golden?

[@dodixaverius9176]

@@polishedrelish the monster is still there but will spam Megido after enough turn. Making it not viable for auto grind on that version.

[@iwannaseehowlongyoucanmakethis]

They repeat this exact mistake in persona 5 with the black oozes that endlessly respawn in okumura's palace.

[@Therealgoroakechi]

​@@iwannaseehowlongyoucanmakethisdoes it still work in royal

[@allihavearepasta-basedthou2890]

Final boss looking at Yu: He's just standing there! _Menacingly!_

[@JackieJKENVtuber]

As someone that's only played the PS2 version, it's delightful to see it getting some love!

[@joshstephens413]

Why would you want the inferior game at all?

[@SilverTypo5081]

​@@joshstephens413 Has better visuals

[@unofficialmajima617]

@@SilverTypo5081 It's a ps2 game it doesn't look good anyway lmao

[@zukosvfx]

no it doesnt ​@@SilverTypo5081

[@Namingway248]

Just a guess, but I wonder if buffs aren't usable in p4's AI because the game doesn't know how to check for them? In p3, party skills were set, but in p4 you have a lot more control over what skills your party members learn (and even moreso in golden). Its possible that because the p3 AI knew exactly what levels it knew what buffs at, it was able to use them in P3, but that this returned errors in p4 depending on party builds, and so they just entirely took it out. that being said, its really disappointing to see that not much effort was put into the system, as the creator's supposedly really liked the idea of AI controlled parties, and only added party control due to fan request.

[@armormakes]

Old comment I know, but the reason is because the tactic was changed in Japan to ‘Conserve HP’. However, it was mistranslated to say ‘Heal/Support’ like in P3. This mistranslation was then carried over into all future Persona games.

[@Zanador]

The bug with Yukiko not doing anything reminds me of one of the many strange issues my damaged disc of P3FES had back in the day - if Aegis went into Orgia mode, she would then just guard every single turn and accomplish literally nothing. When I first played I thought I had missed something about how Orgia mode was supposed to work and didn't even realize it was a bug. Luckily that one had the easy fix of just not using Orgia mode.

[@may0n4ka7]

about Yukiko doing basic attacks during the Shadow Naoto fight she does it only because her Ai relies on Teddie as healer, which is why she started healing when he ran out of sp. I can confirm this since Yukiko’s Ai still does this in Golden as I’m doing a challenge run where I only use Izanagi as my main Persona and am not allowed to control the party, Yukiko did this while I fought Shadow Mitsuo with Teddie & Yosuke in the meanwhile relying on Teddie as a healer regardless the tactic she’s set on besides Direct Commands.

[@JS9Lion]

Potential challenge run idea: In P5, you can only use your magic on your 1-more turn. That means you can only use physical/gun attacks and elemental items to cause damage and knock down enemies. This also means you will predominantly be using items for healing the party. This will force you to become intimately familiar with all the food items in the game and stuff that allow for buffs and debuffs. Just an idea, hope you can make something out of that.

[@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas]

I wish more unique mechanics in Megami Tensei were fleshed out (DDS human form…Devil Survivor online integration…)

[@Ender11037]

I'm almost certain people who don't use direct commands are insane.

[@majora_03]

i only use it in boss fights

[@Tony_409]

33:30 I hate the random skill inheritance. That's why I am so thankful for the P3P manual skill inheritance mod.

[@SearchmanDS]

Congrats on pulling this off. I've played the original twice and Golden once so I know how many pitfalls you can run into with this type of challenge

[@NotCatchy]

"Teddie is so slept on" you can say that again brother

[@InfinityZeroEX]

There’s technically 3 required protag battles, the first one is in his dream that yields no exp. The second being the shadows after his awakening and the third being the shadow Yosuke fight.

[@hgmd3284]

i think they lessened the tatics and AI because people hated the fact you couldnt have full control of the party in P3 so they kept the previous system but empasised party control.

[@sorakairi118]

YES WE’RE GETTING FED, YOUR VIDS GET ME THRU WORK!

[@pablocl3186]

its really weird seeing p4 ps2, it looks just like golden except its blurrier but also better looking in certain areas

[@TheRagnel]

23:34 "that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer" is what should have been said, I'm not angry, just disappointed.

[@heath6802]

Today I learned that not using direct commands is considered challenge rules… I started with 3 so I’m just so used to them doing their own thing that it felt weird doing direct commands in 4 and 5 so I simply did not

[@adamcampbell3263]

I remembered watching one of your videos the other day. I guess you could say I had a… *Nam flashback*

[@OrenjiArms]

i would love to have heard a live reaction of yukiko healing after all that

[@voiceofthelegion578]

This run is hilarious from a roleplay perspective because you have Yu commanding the team pokemon battle style and he only helps fight when the enemy can't fight back.

[@Safersephiroth777]

I am surpised you did it. Also never understood why Turn Based RPG's don't always all you to control all party members.

[@LuiDeca]

"if I use cheats, I don't know, that feels like cheating to me" 😂😂

[@codywhite6337]

Loved the video and I would definitely like to see more challenge run videos

[@elnightkun9336]

all this video tells me that persona 3 is better in a lot of details in their programing. great video btw

[@azuregolem1047]

The hardest part of this challenge: listening to Chie's original voice actress

[@rando843]

Skill issue, Golden ruined her

[@Now_Roxas]

I took like 7 attempts for shadow Yukiko when I first played (I played Golden on Vita), 2 For Shadow Kanji, 2 for Shadow Rise (1 for Shadow Teddie), 54ish for Shadow Mitsuo, 1 for Shadow Naoto, 2 For the Namatame Sagiri, 1 For Adachi, 2 for the damn Eyeball (Had to redo Adachi) If I knew I could get good SP Recovery items in the Castle I'd win, and for Adachi If I knew about the Trumpeter being crazy it'd ha'been 1 try for the Eyeball Sagiri.

[@spencerbowden2979]

Wow I don’t see how the game is winnable without buffs. Ameno sagiri had a bull shit level evade stat. Even when you are buffed it’s rare to land a hit on him when his evasion is buffed.

[@benjoman8252]

I wish atlus would release a version of OG P4 with goldens quality of life improvements but none of the extra story stuff. I felt like the filler events and ability to visit different areas with your scooter just ruin the idea of a small rural town with nothing to do in it

[@canadianfootball1729]

LETS GOOOO

[@DrZPrzy101]

I was gonna say “where’s Marie’s SL” but I forgot you weren’t doing Golden

[@shadownightdragon6524]

I feel like letting Yu equip a persona that repels any attack is cheating. Isn't that technically still using him too deal damage.

[@fanficlover]

If a cheat/mod is only something to reduce time on a challenge run not based around a time frame I would say it's perfectly reasonable. But only if you aren't on an in-gamr time limit. That ultimately undermines the point of the time limit.

[@Zarrius05]

I think the ai in 4 is worse than 3 is because they just weren't fine expecting people to use it. I mean one if the main things that's advertised is that you can control your own party members. While in 3 it was probably thought that the ai should have more rang of things to do because the whole game is played that way.

[@Now_Roxas]

you should be allowed to use items to heal just Yu regardless of the team member.

[@mahendrap1960]

12:17 Kanji boss in vanila is harder than final Boss

[@Now_Roxas]

If Kanji wasn't my favorite character I woulda let Naoto die in there once.

[@PoyowenPoyo]

Great vidtables!

[@RageArmor]

Ai not using buffs is also an issue in P5 Royal. I did a similar challenge, only specifically setting the AI to act freely, and at-least for that tactic they refused to use buff. If they all the damage they do is resisted, and they have nothing to heal then they will just guard even if they have a buffing ability they could use.

[@iwannaseehowlongyoucanmakethis]

do they use charge?

[@iwannaseehowlongyoucanmakethis]

do they use charge?

[@iwannaseehowlongyoucanmakethis]

Do they use charge?

[@Ice_Trey87]

Persona 5 tactics run when?

[@eazybuxafew]

Honestly this makes me want to play P4G more lol. Once my work life balance is back in line, I’m really looking forward to the PSPortal and playing in bed

[@chetapace79]

I want someone to add the other tactics system to persona 4

[@davidlewis1418]

My theory on why the AI is worse. TL;DR They thought a flexible ai would be stronger, but instead, it just made them ignore orders and ruin strategies. It wasn't seen as worth fixing because direct commands were there to bandaid fix it. The ai has been given some ability to adapt based on the circumstances, which makes them worse. Like critical hp Yosuke on assault still casts Dia when he might kill the enemy or drop it low enough to be finished off. They consider each other's orders. Yukiko sees Teddie on support and sees it's taken care of and assaults instead. Not casting buffs might be due to looping issues. It takes more turns to cast single buffs for the whole party than the buffs last. I doubt they considered tactics principles mid to late game, so Ma- spells were just not considered.

[@IuL108]

Okay now do Persona 5

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

I have done it It's very doable

[@Now_Roxas]

There should be a P4 and P4G mod that just lets you remove the player.

[@Zelgius1]

48:55 If you intent on gaining EXP, than i won't blame you for using cheat codes instead of a multiple hour grind at this point. I understand, that you don't want to take a shortcut because you didn't actually earn the Level/EXP but i can assure you, that the only thing you are saving, is time. If you have the option and really want to earn EXP, you might as well increase the gained EXP for your party and do it that way. Just be honest about it, is all i ask for in return. ...You don't necessarily want to end in a position like a certain other challenge runner, who has beaten SMT:Nocturne(for PS2) without Buff/Debuffs.

[@ryanp7546]

Nyarly?

[@Zelgius1]

@@ryanp7546 Exactly.

[@relaxedlad821]

idk if i missed you saying the reason but why og p4 and not p4g?

[@NamsCompendium]

Mostly because of the changes golden makes to Rise and Shuffle Time make that version far too easy for my liking. I figured that this challenge run would be more interesting without those safety nets so I went with the original instead.

[@prinnydood7920]

Cant really use an all out attack since the mc joins too ho Challenge failed hee ho

[@daiyahigashikata]

all out attacks are usually based on the damage of the equipped weapons, so if he kept the weapon the same for the whole run then he shouldn't be contributing much damage to AOAs

[@prinnydood7920]

@@daiyahigashikata Those stil use the mc but its no biggie hee ho :3

[@achiiro]

Yknow, with the AI being dumb and how terrible the tactics options are honestly makes it look like that without Yu, they're literally useless without a leader... I know that's protagonist stuff but that kinda hurts their independence abit

[@aname8174]

Independence ? All their arcs are they are useless without protag-kun to tell them to stop being a little bitch and be honest with how they feel.

[@ryanhatfield8602]

I respect of 4 but I prefer golden and just love the winter parts of the game so much

[@doomoftheend]

Would have been nice if you used a mod or hack. The way you did that Protag is still useful as a meat shield

[@dream6562]

Can you beat persona 4 without debuffs and buffs

[@jethiliusavalar6449]

Please do cheats next time. Please think of your health Yes, you can grind up to level 99 on the party you choose to use for the fight, but you are a human. You have a limited time in this life and you can spend it better. I'm a fulltime gamer myself but you gotta take care of yourself too. This isn't a speedrun. You weren't planning on using a cheat spell that restores everything, and gives heat riser and charge spells to everyone, just speeding things along

[@QueenOfPessimism]

Omg. I think ur maybe the second or third person to do this. Everyone I’ve seen do this was in hell. Good luck (this is before i watch the vid)!! Edit: lol yeah the ai fuckin sucks but hey u did it🎉

[@thanatosxmesiah]

is there any video with persona 5? i find AI in that game as worse though they still buff each other but i feel their move is basically spam gun most of the time

[@jessiealtgirl]

expect it sometime soon

[@greenstat1c]

Man quit pretending you did the ps2 version to be quirky, we all know you just didn't want to do the Hollow Forest with this ruleset.

[@nightwish1453]

OG ver is harder, you can play p4g and just avoid hollow forest completely

[@greenstat1c]

@@nightwish1453 You can in all situations except for a YT challenge run where people would say it didn't count since you didn't get the true ending. Thus, play on the ps2 version where there is no hollow forest at all

[@jessiealtgirl]

I told him to do the original because funny, you can just not do the optional extra dungeon

[@NamsCompendium]

Hollow Forest is easy since the AI can use break skills. I just didn't want to play golden because of Rise's random buffs being too overpowered for my liking. If I maxed her out then I wouldn't have any issues for the rest of the game. The vanilla release is a more challenging and interesting way to experience this run.

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

@@NamsCompendium And IMO the better version of the game

[@Real_Team]

Isn't using All-Out Attacks still including Yu to attack? I mean, it shows Yu's portrait in the All-Out Attack.

[@blackfrostfilms-dl8wo]

im making a mod that restores the ai from p3 to p4 golden and im mostly sure a mod like that has not been released but uhhhhh i could use some help as i have never made a mod before

[@jessiealtgirl]

did u do it?

[@blackfrostfilms-dl8wo]

@@jessiealtgirl I’m going to be honest I have no clue how and I have other projects I am also not doing though I would still like to do it eventually

[@TallTapper]

maybe

[@spiderdude2099]

How bad P4’s AI is needs to be studied in college lectures….

[@PearlSnce]

This in persona 5 royal!

[@mumtrz]

Why am I watching this I dont even play persona..

[@Jai_dinn]

w

[@Zahri8Alang]

Wuat the freeik Yukiko

[@Steeldragon493]

Sooo it was possible then

[@whoozeybeat2531]

Why not do this on golden you miss out on dungeons :/

[@TheLanguageSponge]

I assume it’s because the original version is considered harder.

[@conspiracypanda1200]

Because P4G adds so many bonuses and adjustments to the enemies in the player's favor that it's notably easier than base 4. That said, it would still be possible to do a P4G run if he can figure out Marie, but the content for the main story would be repetitive and the challenge would be lesser for most if not all of the game.

[@Tankotater]

No. You don't get Yosuke right away and Nametame takes your party members away. There saved you a worthless hour long video. Video should take like 1 seconds.

[@daponagegoogenburg807]

Grinding is cringe, cheating is based. Totally fine if you’d just set enemy xp payout way higher, since it’s just a time sink stopping you not any real difficulty

[@shawnnbits]

3 was the last game where your party had any agency. 4 and 5s casts are so worthless without the MCs

[@lewisspring35]

Nam: Im doing vanilla P4 with P3 rules. Me: Huh, ok, nice to see OG P4 and this was doable in P5, though barely. *The P4 AI doesnt use buffs* Me: YOU FUCKING WHAT.

[@dream6562]

P3 command system op baby!!!

[@whyamistillhere3258]

This got me laughing like a madman for 3-4 mins straight because I can imagine the sound effect in my mind

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

@@dream6562 I miss it Especially the complete one by the end of the game

[@ryanhernandez8324]

Perfectly doable, this isn't SMT

[@louaidz1929]

​@@ryanhernandez8324honestly outside of nocturne I think you can beat all mainline smt games without buffs (not counting secret bosses or DLC ones tho)

[@Triforce9426]

It's no wonder when MC falls in battle the whole rest of the party just pull down their pants and surrender. They're hopeless.

[@monkeypantss]

The reason why Yukiko just refuses to attack normally is due to the Naoto boss resisting fire. The game believes that Yukiko using an attack on an enemy that resists it will be a waste of SP, so it won't allow her to do it. No idea why she won't heal tho. The ai's just broken like that I guess.

[@CBman11037]

Yukiko got PISSED that Yu refuses to help

[@cronft]

probably is because since the ai gameplay wasn't as popular as the devs though, they decided to simply not work on the AI in depth since they probably believed everyone could end up turning it off as soon as posibleso why bother?

[@xenolys9956]

Must be coded more like “don’t use skills” instead of just “don’t use fire element skills”

[@advmx3]

@@cronft True, but they went out of their way to downgrade the AI, They could simply left the P3 system there and just add the Direct Controls option. I don't understand WHY P4 did this to the AI though, feels like a waste of time.

[@morrissimeoncollier4396]

Maybe because all spells are considered as specific spells , also I think the ai started healing because teddy ran out of mp which idk why

[@Gatekid3]

I feel like at a point cheats dont take away from the run when the only option is grinding. whether you cheat or do it legit, your stats would end up the same. Theres an argument about the spirit of the challenge, but it would be terrible if it took a month to grind only to learn even at max level the challenge was unwinnable.

[@mauri4140]

exactly my thoughts. you're just saving yourself time, idk why he was making such a big deal out of it

[@slient957]

Realistically yea but the guy behind the challenge did make a huge deal out of it, after all as you said this does save time by a lot should you grind for it legit so speeding it not really cheating truly.

[@cynic8021]

Why would grinding be cheating if it's a legitimate option in the game to level up? You still gotta put in effort to plan what you do in the game like what items you need to get, weapons, armour etc as you lvl up. Get beat down and come back a stronger kinda deal.

[@Gatekid3]

@@cynic8021 self inflicted challenges fall into a weird spot really quickly. If you just sit and grind to level 100 for a year at the start of the game, of course you can beat the game with only the protagonist or only izanagi, party only, etc. Unless theres a legit threat thats hard to beat with just stats, most challenges turn from "can i do X" to "whats the lowest level to do X" Thats why grinding is seen as cheating or less fun.

[@Yung.Ert.]

@@cynic8021no one here said grinding was cheating. They were saying that cheating to max out your stats rather than grinding is fine bc you’re just saving time to get to the same place.

[@anonecki]

There's something uniquely hilarious about Yu not doing anything for the whole game, and when he finally does he obliterates God from existence with a single move

[@9kure]

i find that hilarious that yukiko remembered she had a persona lmao

[@raghavbhasin1165]

My guess is Yukiko doesn't use fire attack spells since Shadow Naoto resists fire and would prioritize using an element they don't resist, in this case physical. I assume there's some priority when you have multiple healers on team so that one will be dedicated to attack and the other to healing, with Teddie having higher priority in this fight for some reason. So therefore, Yukiko only heals when Teddie is unable to heal at all, in this case when he runs out of SP. I'm just spitballing, so it could be wrong, but either way the AI in this game is stupid.

[@crazzluz1702]

I don't think that's right because you see Yosuke and Yukiko both healing on the same turn in earlier fights. It just seems like her AI is bugged in the Naoto fight.

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

@@crazzluz1702 Yeeep. And it is odd because the AI usually doesn't bug out like that when it comes to their element being resisted

[@furiouscorgi6614]

Even here, it's a bit stupid. The game could potentially calc their maximum damage, see that Yukiko does very poor damage and Teddy hopefully does more, and chance for Teddy to be the offensive healer

[@xNico1412]

As someone who basically always runs Teddie on his team its really surprising how little he gets used considering everything he provides.

[@ShadowOfMassDestruction]

It's mostly due to his character rather than what he provides

[@snailthelostcow63]

@@ShadowOfMassDestruction That, and also because his social link is story locked. Unlike in Golden, the party that had their social link maxed will lose their elemental weakness so obviously it's better to pick the one you already maxed out. And by the time you're in endgame, Teddie will have a hard time to catch up unless you're already using him from very beginning instead of waiting for his social link

[@zamany7596]

In my first playtrough I havent used him bc of his sound effect while walking In my second run I noticed that giving him a skin while he is human removes it so I added it My team at the end was Chie, yosuke and naoto, used teddie for mitsuo fight since I had to get some heals and I didnt wanted to use yukiko, the only character that was lvl 30 innyhe endgame

[@greenlitlleman]

I used him mid-game because the rest of my party were girls if possible, later I changed it to a full harem party, but still used him sometimes for particularly hard bosses as a healer.

[@overlordchemm3705]

exactly, I don't think Teddie ever left my active party once I got him. Plus Kamui Miracle is too fun not to have access to at all times.

[@Pussyrepelent]

I just imagine Izanagi being pissed off the whole game and calling Yu a bitch

[@ShadowOfMassDestruction]

Izanami just having the time of her life

[@akechifloorsign]

this made me laugh bc i named yu “mr bitch” 😭

[@skunthundler]

@@akechifloorsign I raise you my "DR. SEX DR. SEX"

[@B4mn]

"I am thou, thou art a bitch"

[@AaronGaming1066]

"you is a mf you know that" - Izanagi, probably

[@dannkettle4106]

Glad to see the OG P4 getting some love!

[@keip4568]

I didn't like this version as Altus at the time was remove the original Japanese and the dubs only...

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

My prefered version of the game 😌

[@primeoctober]

Honestly I think I like OG p4 over golden too

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

Nice fog effects but worse Chie.

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

@@ChiefMedicPururu Correction: Bettee Chie

[@mizzix]

A CHALLENGE RUN ACTUALLY DONE IN THE PS2 VERSION OF PERSONA 4 WHAT IS THIS

[@danx3363]

So Yu Narukami is pulling a Luigi by doing absolutely nothing.

[@setythewindsage6576]

I wonder if the dumbing down of P4s AI was on purpose. If you think about it you can see the challenge of Persona 4 being more like traditional RPGs where you need to look at the party and skills you have come up with the strategies in that way. As opposed to Persona where it’s managing the tactics. In that way it would make a party that acts on its own seem too easy. It’s just good for thought but maybe it’s why the AI is not as sharp and why certain skills like buffs are simply unusable by the computer.

[@mizzix]

I like to think the ai options in persona 4 and 5 are there for if just you want to grind and not go through as many menus, since the enemies have a low chance of killing you anyways you don't need the smartest strategies to take them out

[@iguessthisismyworkaccountl8437]

I dont think the ai was perposley made bad, I think they added it in incase you just wanted to autobattle while you grind, they didnt intend for it to be used every battle.

[@setythewindsage6576]

@@iguessthisismyworkaccountl8437 I guess made bad on purpose is a stretch and more like, it wasn’t ironed out like it is in 3. I still stand by the idea it’s because the game most likely was built in a way to encourage the Direct Command.

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

If that's what they intended, P5V did it correctly... Healers can be quite stingy but they guard, (inconsitstanlty but it's something) buff and use low level revive items as well as automatically switch to conserve SP when they get low Still no power/mind charge and sometimes break like Yukiko did on Shadow Naoto's fight but most of the time they serve their purpise and are no issue when doing mindlesd grinding or even most bossfights

[@lemon66111]

@@rac1equalsbestgame853 P5V? vanilla?

[@NeoMusicGamer]

Man I did a run of P5R with AI companions and that felt abysmal, but this looks to be an entirely new league of horrid to sit through. Glad to see some OG P4 though, I have yet to play Golden but P4 on the ps2 was my intro to the megaten series so it has a special place in my heart.

[@NitsuaGamer]

Awesome a run of OG Persona 4 is being challenge runned! Considering how bad the AI is here, I'm still surprised they still have it in Persona 5.

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

The weirdest thing here is that OG P4 has better party AI than Golden. Here it's awful but in Golden it's completely broken... Granted it's awful even compared to P5V AI but at least changing their tactics actually changes their behavior somewhat outside of Full Assault making them not heal

[@subway_koopa]

What happened to the P4G ai?

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

@@subway_koopa Idk but there was no noticeable behavioral diference when changing tactics in P4G whatsover, the only one I could tell was Full Assault disabling healing but considering how awful P4G AI health percentage requirements to heal are in Heal/Support already I bet it was the requirement being put super low

[@hgmd3284]

P5V?

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

@@hgmd3284 Persona 5 Vanilla

[@hgmd3284]

@@rac1equalsbestgame853 ah oki

[@KodyackCasual]

So, Yukiko in Shadow Naoto fight. Here's my best guess based on programming. So, part 1 is that Shadow Naoto resists fire, so she avoids using attack magic. that's easy enough. Part 2 is the healing, and this is complicated. The best answer I have for you is that Teddy can heal. Because Teddy has healing options, the AI decides that Yukiko is better off attacking, because Teddy will be healing and has priority on that because his magic is lower, so his attack magic is less valuable- even though in this case Yukiko will never use attack magic. However, when Teddy runs out of SP, he no longer can heal anyone. So the Ai sees this and decides that now Yukiko should heal, because nobody else can, even if her attack magic is more powerful in regular cases. Why does this happen here and not in regular fights? Likely because of SP comparisons and unknown enemy resistances.

[@nvnvnv13]

I have a somewhat funny story about Naoto boss. I was fighting her as usual, with my beginner team member because Yosuke Chie Yukiko are a balanced enough team. But this time (in my fourth playthrough I think?) Naoto kept attacking Yukiko. That attack where it drained your HP and SP. Not to mention, cast a Silent on the character that made them unable to use skill. Naoto did it three time consecutively that I was kind of pissed off, because that's my healer right there and I need her skill. So, I decided to use a Magic Mirror Item on Yukiko. I thought 'aint no way this will work on a boss enemy' but guess what? It DID work and Naoto was now Silent for one turn! 😲 I was honestly surprised it happened. Because boss enemies are usually resistant to Status Effect. Literally got a freebie for one turn. And funny enough, Naoto never attack Yukiko again after that. Karma is real, even in game 🤣 (I played Persona 4 original btw, so idk if this scenario can happen in Persona 4 Golden too or not)

[@fallenangelmaxthemad9]

I feel like golden has the potential to be so much worse just because of Marie's dungeon and boss fight

[@joshstephens413]

At least your allies do shit in that game. Not to mention there are buffs upon buffs to be used.

[@Noahs_Chair]

As well as making Yu invincible in Golden being comically easy. Seriusly, just keep Izanagi for a while and you will reach 20~ Endurance before the second Dungeon. Golden mecanics are busted.

[@helloitsme472]

being genuine I don't think this challenge is possible simply due to Marie's boss necessitating Elemental Break skills or the items in her dungeon

[@fallenangelmaxthemad9]

exactly

[@Riley-ye3gf]

Wow, vanilla P4 looks so different! Darker and a whole lot foggier. And I saw a floating shadow, that was weird

[@DuskoftheTwilight]

It feels like it should be obvious that the game that let you directly control the party members doesn't have as robust or refined a system for automated commands, but wow.

[@Vintagesonic1]

Wow... the protagonist has been pushed to a side character.

[@sukoshi1387]

I've got to say, this was one of your best videos to watch. Not only was it a blast to see you play the original PS2 version of P4 and hear your thoughts, but the journey you experienced and the challenges you had to overcome with the dumb AI had me on the edge of my seat the whole way through, especially towards the end. Keep up the good work!

[@tcoren1]

I think the point of the tactics command in p4 is moreso speeding up fights than being your sole option you HAVE to rely on. Given that it makes sense that they would deviate from the role in dire situations to stabilize and that some commands like assign target were removed

[@demfrodegroot7596]

I wish there was a reason to use the AI controls more. It could be fun if using Ai controls meant even if your player character went down, your allies would keep fighting.

[@PepperKoi]

the worst part about the tactics nerfs is that all of them also apply to persona 3 portable, so you can't play that game how it was originally meant to even if you want to

[@RosyMiranto]

Let's see how well you do this run and i hope you did learn from several major mistakes that Magic Marcos did in his Golden Run. Such as No Amrita, oopsies with Boost and Amp. I hope Mitsuo didn't ruin your sanity though.

[@chadkensington7953]

Wait you can fight izanami in the original version 🤯

[@KatelynS0209]

Yeah Marie's arc is the golden content not izanami